Conference moira::parenting

I always kept my 2 1/2 year old out of the kitchen, and intend to keep my
6 month old out when I am cooking.  I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Michael

    
    I have the little tykes kitchen set in my kitchen which my daughter plays 
    with when I'm in the kitchen.  I've never had a problem (thank god) with her
    in there at the sametime as me.  The outside of my oven gets a little
    warm but not warm enough to burn. She's put her hand on it and of
    course did take it off.  I just hope by the oven being a little warm
    to touch has somewhat taught her that the stove/oven is not something
    to play with.  How can you teach a child the right from
    wrong if they aren't exposed to it?  Assuming you are very careful
    and constantly keep your eyes open I can't see a problem.  My daughter
    is 1 yrs. old and gets into the cabinets. I have all cleaners above
    my fridge in the cabinet and the only cabinet she can get into is where
    the pans are.  I give her a wooden spoon and she loves to play the
    drums on the pans.
    
    deb
    

    Luckily, I have a rather new stove--it stays quite cool on the
    outside even when cooking on the inside.  So I've always allowed my
    toddler in the kitchen when I am baking, but not when the oven is 
    self-cleaning (temp. gets very high.)  As for the stove, I allow him 
    in the kitchen if I'm only using the back burners and if it's a kind
    of food that doesn't sputter grease.  But if I have to use the front
    burners, I keep him out.  I've found, all in all, that it is not very
    often that I have to keep him out of the kitchen, and have managed to
    find something else to occupy him in the living room during these
    times.  Our kitchen is such a central focus for our family that I would
    hate to ban him from the kitchen on a regular basis.  Now that he is 
    almost 3, he often pulls up a chair to the counter when I am cooking, 
    to "help" with the stirring or whatever.  I really enjoy these times
    with him and I think he learns from them.  So the kitchen is a happy,
    bustling place for him.
    
    Jane
                                        

    Whether you should allow toddlers in the kitchen probably depends in
    part on the size and layout of your kitchen.  One suggestion--your
    daughter can't be expected to figure out when the oven is or isn't 
    "safe," so you should define limits that are safe when it is on and
    enforce them consistently.  (For example, my kids have been trained
    NEVER to touch the stovetop even if they "know" it is cold.  It's
    easier for them to remember the rule and therefore more likely they'll
    observe it.)
    
    -Tracy
     

    
    I never tried to keep my kids OUT of the kitchen - but to teach them to
    be CAREFUL in the kitchen.  I take precautions that make others crazy
    sometimes too, but to me they're simple things to do, and the benefits
    could be immeasurable in the event of an accident.  Having grown up
    with a gas stove, and having reached over the front burner a few too
    many times and setting towels/potholders on fire more than a few times
    has taught me a LOT of respect for the stove.
    
    First, I ALWAYS use the back burners first.  No matter what I'm
    cooking, if there's any way that I can cook it on the back of the
    stove, I do it there.  I only use the front burners when I'm using more
    than 2, or when I need to cook with a large pot (there's no "large"
    burner on the back).  
    
    I ALWAYS turn the handles toward the middle of the stove.  This stops
    them from hanging over the edge, and also helps keep them cool.  Let a
    handle hang over/near another burner and then try to grab it - you'll
    understand pretty quick!
    
    The outside of an oven door has to be pretty darn hot to inflict a
    burn.  I guess I never worried much about them touching the outside. 
    When the oven was on (when they were younger), and I had to open it, I
    would first put the child in their highchair.  They could SEE, but I
    was CERTAIN that they couldn't get hurt that way.  As they got older, I
    made sure that I TOLD them that I was going to open the oven and to
    stand back, and even still, even now, I put myself in between them and
    the oven when opening it.  
    
    Also, they've seen me get spattered enough from things cooking that
    they know to take me SERIOUSLY when I say to get away from the stove.
    I don't tend to be real quiet about it when I get burned, so they get
    the idea pretty darn quick.
    
    On the other hand, one of the ladies that used to babysit for us had a
    2 year old grandson.  He was *FASCINATED* by the oven.  She baked
    **ALL** the time, so the oven was constantly being opened/closed and
    was always very hot.  Any and all chances that he could get, he would
    run over to the oven as soon as she opened it, and stand with his hands
    on the inside of the door, SCREAMING crying because of the burns.  Many
    many times he got second and third degree burns on his hands, but he
    never ever lost his fascination for the oven.  Strange kid!  
    
    I used to know a guy who was *SO* afraid that his kids didn't
    understand "hot", that he turned the burner (electric) on very low -
    just warm enough to cause a reaction, and had his daughters touch it.
    They understood HOT pretty darn quick, and in a controlled environment
    so that they didn't get hurt.  And a friend of mine was baking his
    older daughter a b.day cake, and he went to take it out of the oven. 
    Both girls were watching, fascinated, by what they'd made.  Suddenly
    the younger one started screaming hysterically, and no one could figure
    out why.  Turns out she had put her LIPS on the oven door.
    
    So, you can't be too careful - but I do believe that if you just ban
    them from it completely, they'll never learn how to be careful around
    it.  A child doesn't have to be very old to understand HOT! or NO!  My
    kids know not to touch the oven/stove top, ever.  Period.  Luckily,
    this has been enough for us.  For that matter, I don't even like my 8
    year old messing with the microwave - stuff still gets HOT, and I don't
    want them burned.  
    
    Teach them caution and responsibility - not just fear.

    One of the 1st words my son learned to speak was "HOT". He very briefly
    touched an open oven door that was quite warm and never did it again.
    No damage was done.  Now my son is 3 and helps my wife make desserts - 
    cookies, cakes, pies.  He loves to lick the beaters and manages to
    avoid the hot spots.
     
    Keeping a small child out of the kitchen by verbal orders or moving them
    out will certainly keep them puzzled.  They are like ants that will
    keep returning.  Supervision and a temporary decrease in the rate of 
    activity in the kitchen will get your little ones familiar with the 
    kitchen and what to avoid.  For novice crawlers, one parent could keep 
    their little one occupied in a safer environment while the other cooked. 

    If you can set up the gate, set it up and save yourself some grief.
    I had the kitchen gated off when our son was the baby, but once 
    our daughter was born, I couldn't gate the kitchen.  It's the "hub" of
    the house's layout -- you have to walk through the kitchen to get to
    the rest of the house, including the bathroom and the bedrooms.  So
    I had to leave the kitchen open, because I was toilet-training him
    by that time, and I wanted to make it as easy as possible for him to
    attend to his own needs.  (Putting the potty chair in the front room
    wasn't an option.)
    
    So the long and the short of it is, my daughter has always had the
    run of the (child-proofed) kitchen.  I just make sure she stays away
    from the immediate stove area (hard to do in a small kitchen like
    ours).  When she was younger, I would just put her in th high chair,
    but now she's 26 months and that won't do at all!  Plus, the only
    cabinets either of the kids can get into have safe stuff in them, like
    Tupperware and pots and pans.
    
    Another thing I do is when I bake something, I leave the oven light on
    till the oven has cooled off a bit.  The kids are learning that the
    light means HOT and STAY AWAY.
    
    I think the question in the basenote is one of the reasons why American
    kids watch so much TV. :-) :-)  Parking them with a Disney video or
    "Sesame Street" really does seem like keeping them safe when you're
    rushing around like a maniac trying to get dinner.
    

where I can keep one eye on her.  She's now 13 months old and walking.  I
set up toys for her to play with and try to help her keep herself amused so
that she stays with me.  Lots of times, though, she toddles off into the other
rooms where I worry that she will bump her head.  When the spouse is home,
it's his job to keep her entertained while I cook.

We have a fairly large kitchen so she's not right underneath the stove.  We 
keep wires from crock pots, steamers, etc. out of reach, and we make sure
she's not underfoot when transferring pans of hot stuff from microwave, oven,
or stove top to countertops or the sink.

I enjoy her company, but she gets kind of frustrated that I can't give her
100% attention.

- Deb

RE: kids and the oven.  I met a 14-month toddler in our pediatrician's office
last month.  His hand was all bandaged up.  He'd opened the hot oven and
grabbed the rack.  OUCH!  His mom said she still can't keep him away
from the oven when it's running.

Unfortunately, it seems the door to the broiler on our gas oven doesn't
fit very well.  There's a metal strip at the bottom of the oven door that
gets burnably hot whenever the oven's on. I think I'll call Sears out and 
see if they can fix it.  This is a gas stove, used, that we traded with someone
to get rid of our electric.  The front of the electric got burnable hot
whenever you used the top elements.  We can't seem to win!  I'm looking
to buy a NEW stove!

    
    FWIW, there is a oven door lock that you can buy to keeps kids
    from opening the oven (sold at Toys R Us and I'm sure other
    places).  I have a gas stove too.  I let Nicholas in the kitchen
    with me but only when I'm making bottles and not when I'm cooking.
    Sometimes it's hard to keep him in the other room while I'm cooking
    (very determined child) so I make sure that all the pans are on
    the back burner.  I have the safety hooks on all of the cabinets
    except for my pots and pans cabinet so he can play in there
    (he thinks he's getting away with something when he can get the
    pots n' pans cabinet open).  So far it seems to work but i'm
    going to knock on wood.
    
    Now, if I can only keep him out of my trash can!  That's a whole
    other topic in itself!
    
    Good luck!
    -chris

    I hope in the States, you have better oven door locks then they have
    here in Ireland.   I bought a plastic one.   Daniel had it broken
    within two weeks.    So far, even though he is trying, he has not
    managed to break the locks on the freezer and presses.    We also
    let him at the pots and pans.   He seems to get better fun out of
    these then he does his toys.
    
    
    Bernie
    

    I never tried to keep my daughter out of the kitchen.  I started having
    her help me when she was fairly young.  She is now 3 and can break
    eggs, mix things, measure flour or sugar into a cup, press the
    microwave buttons, unload the silver in the dishwasher, and other such
    stuff.  
    
    Our oven door does not get hot, so that helped.  We taught her that
    the burners are hot and she should never touch them.  (We put them on
    and held her hand above the burner to feel how the heat radiates.) 
    
    Basically, I believe that you should take away the stuff that you don't
    need that can be dangerous (trinkets on tables, a lamp that we kept on
    a low table, and so on).  But, you can't do much about the kitchen. 
    You gotta eat and they have to learn.  
    
    At this point, she wants to help sometimes, and other times she wants
    to do puzzles or watch TV.  I think since the kitchen wasn't off
    limits, it hasn't become so tempting. 
    
    judy

    We have a kitchen that opens to the both to the livingroom and to the
    dining room completing sort of a circular track around the first floor
    (the dining room opening into the livingroom). 
    
    Since Charlotte has been mobile, we've always given her the catch
    phrase "mommy's cooking" or "daddy's cooking" or "there's cooking" as
    a enforcement of the no-enter rule when food is being heated (even
    when taking something hot out of the microwave there is a risk).
    
    She's pretty good about not using the kitchen as her personal 
    "thru-way" when this rule is in force, only at times when she's trying
    her best to be disobedient on all fronts does she slyly attempt to
    drop things past the kitchen doorway so that she just has to step
    in and pick them up. Normally, we do fine, since we started early
    enough. Only later when she understands the potential dangers do
    we plan to relax these strictly enforced rules.
    
    I've had friends' family members endure serious childhood burns as 
    a result of kitchen accidents and so these stories have become my
    personal lessons on the danger of hot items.
    
    Monica

We have kids in the kitchen while cooking, however,
there are strict rules about *where* in the kitchen
they can be.  Never near the stove.

Also, the cooking parent is responsible only for cooking,
and the assisting parent is responsible for slave-labor,
keeping kids safe, etc, not necessarily in the kitchen.  
So, the cook is never expected to also entertain.


This rule breaks down when my husband or I miss dinner.
Then we rely heavily on Sesame St, and "special occasion"
toys in the family room, which has worked so far.

Pat

	Emily's always been allowed in the kitchen.  I'd never get 
	anything done if she wasn't.  Most times, I'm slicing and
	dicing, and am usually lucky enough to be able to pass her
	off to my husband when I need to use the stove (it helps keep
	them *both* out of the room - I need my SPACE when I'm cooking ;-) ).

	If I have to cook while she's in the kitchen, I use the back-burners,
	and I put her in her high chair if I'm cooking something that may
	spatter, or requires my constant attention.  This only happens
	at dinnertime, so Emily's ready for a few Cheerio's anyway...

	Karen

    
    
    	I've always let Callie in the kitchen with me - we sort of have no
    choice, the way our house is set up.  But HOT was one of the first
    things she learned, and if I have to drain spaghetti or cook something
    that splatters, she either gets Dad or a special treat video in
    the other room.  Cooking gets done on the back burners, always always
    always. We bought the covers so she wouldn't be able to turn the
    oven/stove on, but she can rip them right off.  SO we go mental when
    she reaches for them - I think she's getting the idea that they're off
    limits. 
    
    	The fun part is now she cooks with me!  This works especially well
    if I'm baking, but even if I have to slice and dice, she likes to watch
    while I do it out of her reach.  
    
    She likes to try whatever I'm cutting up/baking, and LOVES to
    play with the measuring cups and spoons, ESPECIALLY if water is
    involved. (She's 18 months,  and has been "cooking" with me for a
    few months.)  So now instead of cooking being a Momma-only activity,
    it's a time-with-Callie activity.     
    
    	Justine

    Cooking time is also a great time to get my son to eat vegetables.
    Things that he wouldn't touch on a plate at the table he will eat
    if I hand him a piece or two while chopping or dicing.
    
    

I would have the children help in order to keep them where I could
see them and out of trouble while I worked in the kitchen.  The 
favorite occupation was cutting up mushrooms for the salad.  I would 
stand the child on a chair at a section of counter near me (which was 
always on the other side of the kitchen from the stove), or at the
table, with a cutting board, mushrooms, and a plastic knife.  And 
no matter how hacked to bits they were, we put them in our salad or
cooked with them if the recipe called for them.  

This was in the 2-4 year old range.

Norma

    Norma,
    
    We use a hardboiled egg slicer on the mushrooms. (the kind with the
    wires that hinges together.  It usually kept carrie busy.  Now she is
    old enough to really help, but I need her to play with Atlehi to keep
    her out of the kitchen while I cook.
    
    Meg

    I always welcome my children in the kitchen at any time. It's fun for
    them, and they should learn early to help. For tiny ones, pots and pans
    in low cabinets are great toys to bang around. When they can sit up
    they can help pour ingredients, break eggs, etc. A little older and
    they can help clean up. I firmly believe kids should be involved in all
    household chores and activities as early as possible, for their sake as
    well as mine. It takes longer, and may be more frustrating to the
    adult, and may not get done as well, but the benefits far outweigh the
    costs. 
    
    Of couse, one should exercise a little extra care around the stove (not
    so much the oven, as the stove-top from which something hot could get
    dumped -- oven doors aren't usually *that* hot, and kids aren't really
    so dumb that they don't get it if you show them.)
    
    Kit
    

    I, too, have always allowed Jeff in the kitchen.  He's 11 now and likes
    to help cut up the salad, but I had a little problem with him and HOT!
    He's always been very curious and one to experience things first hand.
    
    When he was about 5 (I  don't remember *exactly* how old he was)
    he was in the kitchen with me as usual as I made dinner.  I was using
    one of the front burners on the stove because both back burners were
    busy.  When I took the pan off the burner, as usual, I told him to stay
    away because the burner was really HOT!  I turned to drain the pasta
    that I had cooked and momentarily turned my back to him and the stove. 
    As I turned back around, he walked up to the stove and before I
    realized what he was doing, he laid his hand on the burner. 
    Fortunately, he only briefly  touched  and got his hand off before it
    was badly burned.  It was only a first degree burn for which I am very
    thankful.  I asked him why he did it and he told me that he wanted to
    know how really HOT felt!  He has never done anything like that again.  
    
    So no matter how careful you are accidents can still happen  . . .

   Hey... it worked for me... 
   
   I still remember an incident I had in the kitchen as a kid... I don't
   know how old I was, but my mother was cooking pancakes on a griddle.
   She had dripped a little batter while pouring, making a "pancake"
   that was less that 1" across.  As I recall, it went something like
   this...
   
   As I was saying "look at that", I was pointing, and reaching, and
   ended up burning my finger tip on the griddle..
   
   Sometimes we do learn the hard way..
   
   - Tom

    I think this may be in another note, but in case not...
    
    AJ learned HOT, but not by using the stove as an example.  We were
    doing the fourth of July bit at my sister inlaws a few years ago, the
    "grown men",(read boys who never grew up!) were setting up for some
    real fireworks, and the children were given sparklers.  All went well,
    except we had trained AJ to be "neatnick" a little too well.  After his
    sparkler had burned out, he wanted to give take it to the trash can,
    but it dropped on the ground.  Before I had time to react and scream
    NO, don't touch it, he had picked it up and gotten a blister raising
    burn on his finger.  That the one and only lesson he ever needed in
    HOT!  He is 7 and still remembers the incident well.  He is very
    careful to ask first if the stove is hot, and what I do is when I get
    done cooking on a front burner (we have electric) is to put another
    pot, usually the teapot or an old cast iron frypan on the hot burner,
    just to keep the burner covered to eliminate the risk of someone, even
    an ussuspecting adult from accidentally touching it, or putting
    somethig on it.
    
    We do have to break one habit though, which is to use the stove top as
    a counter extention.  Unfortunately it sits right beside the fridge,
    and we tend to put cups or the milk bottle down "just for a minute",
    and it really is a dangerous habit!
    
    My husband related several years ago about a coworker who had a
    "climber", the child wanted something in an overstove cabinet, climbed
    up and put a bare foot on a still very hot burner, the result was
    tragic, the child was hospitalized, and faced many surgeries and skin
    grafts!
    
    Lyn
    

    A neighbour related the following story to us the other day, from some 
    years ago.
    
    She was busy in the kitchen with her toddler Jon-Jo and he kept getting
    in her way, so she lifted him up & sat him down on a counter top. A few
    minutes later he started saying "Ot, ot", she looked around to see him
    smoking. She'd put him on a recently turned off electric hob which
    still retained some heat. It had burned through his clothing, and was
    steaming his nappy dry. Fortunately he wasn't injured, lucky for him he
    had a wet nappy! 
    
    Andy