Conference moira::parenting

I always made my own baby food. I cooked large batches of stuff, and froze
it in ice cube trays.  Then dump the ice cubes in a zip-lock bag, label it,
and stick it in the freezer.  I used to cook on the week-ends, and make a
variety of fruits and vegetables so the kids would have enough for all
week and wouldn't have to eat the same things too often. And I could take
out the right amount for each of them, and it could be the foods they 
wanted to eat.

Things I used to make and freeze were prunes, pears, applesauce, peaches,
plums, nectarines, green beans, sweet potatoes, squash (always made that
the way we like it -- with butter, brown sugar and maple syrup), whatever
was on sale.  And I used to pulverize our leftover meats in the blender
to make them meat.  Sometimes I'd cook a whole turkey, roast, or chicken
and use the leftovers to make meat for them.  I found this to be a lot
easier and cheaper than buying food, and it was very easy to just switch
them to regular table food as that was basically what they were already
eating.  I've been lucky that my kids have always eaten whatever I cook,
so I found it easy to make things for them.

Other things we do is shop yard sales for their clothes and toys.  And I
never had good luck making my own wipes, so we have always bought wipes
but cut them in half.  I find that I only need 1/2 wipe for a regular
change, and with twins, I go through wipes and diapers like there's no
tomorrow.

    This "wipes" thing has got me going. Wendy, you described a great
    method for making your own "wipes" however, we use a different method.
    We have a stack of baby face-cloths beside our diapers, and have a bowl
    beside the change table pad that gets filled with warm water for each
    change. We wash her bottom with it and it goes either into the hamper
    or the diaper bucket depending on the occasion. If it is very messy,
    we use a piece of toilet paper or two to wipe the biggest part of the 
    mess then rinse it into the toilet with the bulk of the solid waste.
    Then we use the wash cloth to finish the job. We still liberally apply
    vaseline (actually a generic brand I get on sale - with coupons!)
    before closing up with a fresh diaper. 
    We've had ZERO incidences of diaper rash and it does not add to our
    wash load very much, and very little gets thrown away. 
    I'd been recommended away from commercial wipes because they may induce
    rashes, so we sort of fell into this routine without direct
    recommendation from anyone. Works for us.
    
    Monica

    I didn't see the method for making the Wipes.   Can someone give me a
    pointer to where this is?
    
    Thanks
    
    Sarah

    The food bill, this is what most of our friends are also interested in.

    We now eat very little meat (although we are by no means vegetarians).

    And remember we essentially only feed two adults (okay I eat a bit more
    because I'm nursing) and a picky little two year old (who essentially
    eats what we eat although we do make allowances for him)

    	Mostly we eat pasta, rice, fresh veggies.

    	At least five dinners a week are meatless.

    	One dinner a week is a bean and rice dish (cost about .50 for the
         entire meal) the key is adding flavors and spices.
	
    	1-2 dinners a week are sauted veggies on pasta (or rice) with feta
    cheese for protein. I also make peanut butter sauces for noodles
    (protein).

    	And,... the secret weapon?

    	Something called TVP which is Texturized Vegetable Protein. We have
    this for 1-2 dinners a week. It is the part of the soy bean that is
    left after the oil has been squeezed out (sort of like bran). You have
    to rehydrate it and once you get used to cooking it, about .25 cents
    worth makes enough for a full meal with leftovers for lunch. I've
    learned to add plenty of herbs and cut up vegetables. I've even tried
    it in a very good sloppy joe recipe and I'm looking forward to making
    chili once the weather cools a bit.

    	Sometimes for dinner we make a huge salad and eat home baked bread
    (with tons of butter).

    	Sometimes we make a dinner based on potatoes.

    	1-2 times a week we have meat, chicken or burgers or scallops on the
    grill. Because we don't eat it that often a little is all we need to
    feel full (I'm often appalled by the serving sized of meat in
    restaurants).

    	We've also been known to grill tofu and have that with grilled
    vegetables.

    	Lunches are either leftovers or coldcuts or cheese sandwiches, or
    pb&J (with our own jam). We usually also pack a fruit and some cookies.
    Spencer gets yogurt (homemade) and chicken chunks and potatoes.

    	Breakfasts are usually coffee with a muffin. (Spencer eats cheerios
    and fruit).

	I eat lots of cookies for snacks and tonight, in fact, I'm planning
    on making brownies and oatmeal cookies (no mixes).

    	We don't drink milk and instead use Apple juice instead of milk for
    Spencer (milk allergy). We drink water and have a beer probably 5 times
    a week.

    	As I've said, we do eat well now and we've even managed to both
    drop a few pounds without even trying. Spencer is still zooming away on
    the growth charts.

    	I know that once Griffin starts eating food the bills will go up a
    bit but even if we doubled our food bill it would still be 60
    dollars/week.

    			Wendy

    >Even if we doubled our food bill it would be about 60 dollars a week
    
    WOW!! I'm *impressed*
    
    
    Can you share any of your veggie recipes? And how do you get the TVP
    not to be dry and (IMO) nearly inedible? I can't seem to get the hang
    of it.
    
    Jamd

    Well, Wendy, the lack of a meat-bill explains almost everything to
    me (good for you!)
    Alas, I married a carnivore (sounds like a movie title...8-) )
    He is a self-professed "hater-of-green" and will gobble down a rather
    embarrassingly large portion of animal protein in one sitting.
    Slowly though, he is starting to eat more veggies, since, he maintains,
    he doesn't want his kids to have an excuse not to eat their veggies
    ("But Daddy doesn't eat them!"). So he is trying to be good, but we
    still have a big meat bill. (hates tofu too!) 
    
    Our general food bill has improved - we still manage to slip in the
    occasional eating out, but  the frequency has gone down since the 
    appearance of Charlotte in our lives. We only average about a 
    movie (in the theatre) per year (one - and I complain about the 
    price each time, but its a special treat). Even our renting videos
    has dimished cause we are too tired in the evening, and usually just
    hit the sack before we have completed an hour in front of the tube.
    
    Back to meals, I think pre-cooking and freezing is a BIG key, both
    to saving money and time (when you arrive home from work and its
    already 6pm!).
    A few things we do for food:
    
   - We used to buy chicken parts because Alan likes leg meat and I like
    breast meat, but now we buy a whole chicken, cut it up, skin it,
    and put wings away in a bag in the freezer. (we do this about once
    a week now, usually BBQing the parts). After a while we have a whole 
    feastly meal's worth of chicken wings in the freezer to cook-up, and 
    at practically zero cost. 
    
   - Once in a while we buy a whole turkey, Alan skins and bones it. We 
    make broth, stew, (usually a nice curry) and a number of other 
    dishes that we freeze for later. There is usually enough left to
    make a roast or BBQ on skewers. 
    
   - We buy ground beef in bulk, freeze it in 1 pound "Balls". 
    One year (in my copious free time ;-) ) I plan to start canning
    tomatoes as we LOVE tomato sauce in a number of pasta dishes (lasagna,
    etc).
    
   - If we are going to order in pizza, we make sure we do it on a "bargain
    night" either 2 for 1 night, or 1/2 price night. We pick it up (usually
    cheaper that way) ourselves and order a LARGE amount for both of us
    (i.e. the veggie pizza for me, the meat pizza for Alan). We eat our
    fill and freeze the rest. Voila, another pizza meal easily warmed
    up.
    
    Monica (just some random thoughts)
    
    
    
    

Aha TVP ...

the wonderful basis for such delicacies as
Hamburger Helper
Veggie Burgers

Wendy, does your "food" bill include cleaing materials, etc that we
pick up in the grocery cart, or have you factored that out ?

Stuart

    
    	Some of these notes are blending but the book information is:
    
    	The Tightwad Gazette
        promoting Thrift as a Viable Alternative Lifestyle
        by:
    	Amy Dacyczyn (pronounced Decision if anyone cares)
    	Villard books, New York, NY 
    	9.99 (US)
    	12.50 (Canada)
    
    
	I challenge anyone to read this book and *not* make some
    adjustments in their lifestyles. If you do pick up this book (I've seen
    it at Barnes and Nobles in the Reference section) please let us know
    what you think about it.
    
    
	There is also a monthly newsletter called:
    
    	The Tightwad Gazette (surprise, surprise)
        to get 12 issues send 12 dollars along with name and address to:
    
    	the Tightwad Gazette
    	RR1 Box 3570
    	Leeds, ME 04263-9710
    
    	I have nothing to do with this publication other than being
    impressed with many of its ideas.
    
    	By the way, Marc just loves it when the newsletter comes, I get all
    inspired to try new things around the house and invariable take at
    least one suggestion a month to heart.
    
    			Wendy
    	

    
    	I'll enter some recipes sometime next week but regarding the 
    question of rehydrating TVP, what I've found to work is the following,
    
    	rehydrate 1 cup of TVP with almost but not quite one cup of warm
    water, mix and let stand for a few minutes.
    
    	While the TVP is rehydrating, saute your vegetables in either oil
    or wine (or a combination of both) as the TVP is dry and can soak up
    watch how much oil you add.
    
    	When the veggies are just about done, add the TVP and the spices (I
    use a liberal dose of parsley, basil, and oregano) and *Cover*, this
    allows the TVP to steam rather than to cook and dry out.
    
	Once the TVP is heated (about 3-5 minutes) the dish is done and
    ready to eat. We like to use Feta cheese on top. Depending on the
    vegetables and spices you use,  you can drastically change the flavor
    of this dish.
    
    	Stuart, our food bill really only includes food, we buy our
    cleaners bulk at a warehouse in great quanities (remember all of that
    storage room we have?) We really don't use very much as far as cleaners
    though, everything is cut, (I only use half of what they tell me to use
    in the laundry and our washes still come out just as clean). We no
    longer use bar soap but liguid soap in the showers (as a test Marc went
    through three bars of soap while I went through one quarter of a bottle
    of soap). I do use a fair amount of Murphy's oil soap on the first
    floor and we use a fair amount of dish washing soap (we don't use our
    dish washer). I'm still trying to finish using up some of the bathroom
    cleaners that we had leftover from the condo. (bathrooms aren't one of
    my greatest strengths). So even though we don't include cleaners in our
    weekly budget, we really don't spend that much on them.
    
    	I must say that one of my indulgences is "smelly stuff" from the
    Body Shop. On occassion, I will buy something just for me. (usually
    bath oils).
    
    	At this point it's become a game to see how much we can cut corners
    and still live the lifestyle that we are comfortable with.
    
    	And for those of you who think I am depriving myself or my kids,
    ask them if they feel deprived, but ask them after they've finished
    their warm from the oven cookies (which are a lot cheaper than store
    bought cookies) I wouldn't want them talking with their mouths full ;-)
    
    			Wendy
    
    

    CLEANERS: I buy bulk dishwasher, dishsoap at BJ's Wholesale Club. I use 
              amonia or bleach to clean almost everything.
    
        FOOD: I either bake from scratch or mixes- Twinkies are too expen-
              sive. I use canned juices. I buy Koolaid by the huge can. I
              buy meat in bulk, separate and freeze.
    
     CLOTHES: I always buy my kids' clothes a bit big. I don't buy cheap
              clothes because they shrink and wear poorly. I don't buy them 
              expensive clothes because they grow too fast. I choose a middle 
              ground. 
    
     PAPER GOODS: I get cheap paper towels because I usually only use them
                  as napkins or for very small spills. For larger spills I 
                  use a rag or towel. I use Scotts for the bathroom. You
                  get lots more sheets on the roll.  
              
    
    Kate

    Few weeks ago I found a place here in Jerusalem that sell "dry
    products" (all types of feed that are not fridge-needed) for a whole
    lot less than the supermarket.Just an example-I'll pay 19ns for a bag
    of diapers while the at supermarket I'll pay 28ns(!!!) for the same
    bag.It's on the way to work so I don't even have to go out of my way.
    At the end of last month we had our food bills figured out-about 40%
    cut!!!!! I am so pleased!!!!
    We also have,evry once in a while,a 2_for_the_price_of_one sale at
    the local supermarket,so now I have cleaning stuff for a whole year
    (and I wash the floor 3 times a week!!) We do use bought wipes but
    they are not that expensive (about 4ns=~$1.30 for a box of 160) and
    we wash the kids's "tush" almost every we change so all in all we use
    1 box a month for 2 kids.Unlike other people here I hardly ever go to
    the market for fruit/vegies sine I found out that a-going there mean
    paying for parking+spending alot of time b-everything is "so cheap and
    so nice" that I tend to buy much more than we can eat==spending.So I
    shop for f/v at the grocerystore and I buy less but I then don't throw
    away food.I also USED to knit alot,but with the wool/yarn prices these
    days it's cheapper not to.So now I knit only "specials",like a sweather
    a year for the kids.I don't sew,but a friend told me that same goes for
    buying vs sewing your own.BUT-I do patch cloths (I "majored" in
    patching Rami's socks...)
    I do plan on trying the apple souce though (love the stuff and I get
    free apples from my uncle)
    And still I have a feeling there's plenty more we can save.I just don't
    have a clue WHERE.
    r/

    Hi Rivka,
    
    What's ns - and it's dollar equivalent?   I keep thinking
    nano-seconds....
    
    Carol

    We spend about $40 a week on groceries which includes diapers (only
    1 bag/month), cleaning products, and most of our H&BA for 2 adults,
    one child.    However, I usually save between 15-30% with coupons
    so the value of my purchase is more like $50-60.   I almost never buy
    store brands or generics.  I think the way that I'm able to keep my 
    grocery bill low is that my weekly shopping consists of only about 
    5-10  items that I actually NEED (milk, eggs, produce).    I almost 
    never buy non-perishable items, or even meat, unless it's on sale or
    I have a coupon for the item (and usually both!).   Both my kitchen
    pantry and my pantry shelf in the cellar are stocked with pasta and
    rice, canned tomato and bean products, juices, salad dressing, soups,
    laundry soaps, cereals, etc.

    I've shopped the wholesale clubs but don't find their prices to be
    competitive with my method in the least.  Besides, who wants to
    lug around a 5-gallon container of juice?   One other thing about
    buying in bulk that I've noticed is that the larger sizes of
    products are not always cheaper per unit of measure - I don't
    understand it at all!   I'm usually much better off going with 
       
    Also, I make it a point *NOT* to cut coupons for products that I
    wouldn't normally buy as I found that it actually wastes money
    instead of saving it.

    Carol

    Rivka said 4ns = $1.30 (I assume US$) This means 1ns is about $0.32 US
    (or, $0.41 Cdn).
    Right?
    However, it is difficult to judge what is more expensive or cheaper
    that "at home" even when converting foreign prices, simply because
    cost-of-living or pricing standards for certain classes of items may
    be radically different. Those of us who are not in the US will probably
    have to put a "price opinion" beside every price we quote, so that the
    others will understand whether or not WE think this is a fair price.
    
    Re:paper towels.
    We don't use them that much. our greatest use is the cleaning staff
    like using them, so they go through more than we EVER use up. We buy
    them in bulk, and a type that are reportedly recycled from phone-books.
    They are brown in colour (unbleached) and are in the same price class
    as other "new material, bleached, patterned, etc" papertowels. I am
    now seriously considering switching the cleaning staff off of all the 
    environmentally incorrect substances and towels they've been using. 
    
    Monica

ns = New Shekel, about $.35 US.  Israeli salaries are considerably lower than
US salaries.  Israeli prices (particularly housing) are not.

    I have one (almost) rule when food shopping, If I'm not absolutely out
    of it, or am within one portion of something I use a lot (laundry and
    cleaning things are a good example) I put it on a "next week" list for
    shopping.  I too love the "bump and dent" section in the grocery store
    and the overripe produce section too.  This time of year I love my
    inlaw's garden even more!
    
    I do buy cleaning products in bulk, either save the previously bought
    smaller containers, or go to a bargain place to buy smaller containers. 
    My latest was to buy several gallon pitchers to hold the cereal and
    chex mix I had bought in bulk at the warehouse.  the pitchers came from
    a discount place too, paid about half price for those.  It keeps the
    things fresh and keeps them from getting crushed.
    
    During the summer we cook quite a bit on the grill, and used paper
    plates.  this saves water, dish soap, hot water energy and most
    important, MY TIME!  (paper plates are white and recycle right?)
    
    Lyn

    
    Please  help me.
    
    How do people save 15-30+% by using coupons??!!
    
    I clip, but as most of the stuff I buy is non-name brand, I don't seem
    to really use many coupons.   
    Something related to this is thatI've noticed the warehouse places seem
    tostock only name brands and the cost per unit isn't any lower than
    generic or store brands bought at the regular stores..!
                                               
    My rule is that I don't clip unless it's something I was planning to buy
    anyway.   
    
    We also found that cloth towels instead of paper around the kitchen was
    much nicer.. and saves on paper purchases.

I save quite a lot by using coupons.  I tend to buy my coupon items at the 
stores that triple or double them.  I won't buy a coupon item at a store that
doesn't double the coupon as I can get it cheaper at another place. I also
do my shopping at a few places, so I know which store has the item cheapest
and who does what with the coupons. 

I only clip coupons for things that I use, and I will buy the generic if 
a)we like it as much or more than the brand name; and b) it is cheaper even
after counting my coupon savings.  There are particular things that we prefer
a specific brand for or just don't care for a particular brand, so I shop
with that in mind. We've found some generic items (like frozen lemonade) that
we much prefer to the brand names.  And I've found wild price swings on things
we use a lot like Calcium-added OJ which I've found as much as $.60 less by
buying it at a different store, so I usually get it there.  

After reading all your notes, I can see that my food bill is higher because
we do eat a lot of meat.  And my kids, who are only 2, can eat as much as
me and my husband, so sometimes it can be like feeding 4 adults. And they
love all kinds of vegetables, so I buy a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables
which makes them happy and keeps those bottomless pits called stomachs
semi-full.

    
    question : I've always bought generic based on the philosophy, does
    Albertson(where we shop) have a baked bean factory, a toilet roll
    factory, a shampoo factory, an earbud factory, etc. No, the same
    factories that make the name brand stuff make the generics as well, and
    put a generic label on.
    
    How accurate do you think this is?
    
    Simon

    re -.1, you are absolutely correct.  BUT... sometimes the ingredients
    or recipies in the generics are changed just a little.  Usually its the
    more expensive ingredients that get changed around.  Usually with a
    little close scrutiny you can figure out which company makes the
    store's brand. (Heinz makes ketchup, campbell's makes soup, Scope is
    the generic blue mouthwash).
    
    Did you think that DIGITAL has it's own plastics factory to make the
    cases for our display terminals?  Nope!  I interviewed years ago at the
    place that was, at that point, making the "skins" for our vt100's! as
    well as several other company's "skins".  
    
    Lyn
    

I believe most store brands are made by companies that specialize in store
brands, not by the name brand companies.

If you buy name-brand items on sale while using double or triple coupons,
you can end up paying next to nothing -- sometimes they even pay you.
In my area, all the stores double coupons less than $1, and some have
limited tripling of such coupons.  Where my parents live, there's no $1 limit,
so I usually make a shopping trip when I visit them and take advantage of
the $1+ coupons.  I also find that for most things, it's cheaper to buy
normal sizes in supermarkets when they're on sale than to buy the humongous
sizes in the warehouses.

    Another great find for me has been the latest trend of "buy one get one
    or even two free".  That way you've got one to use now, and one or more
    to keep on hand for the future.  
    
    Geez, I've got bottled salad dressing by the tons I bought that way
    LAST summer!  I figure bottled and canned things are good just about
    forever!
    
    Lyn

    I had a friend who worked for OrrowWheat (Enntemans sp?) on the east
    coast.  They make all of the store brand bread for several grocery
    stores here in CO.  Guess who they are owned by- Phillip Morris, fyi.
    
    jc

    re:.14
    Monica,
    ~2.85ns (new shekel) = 1 US dollar. 
    About cost of living and all,I can only say that we have the same
    problems any other young couple in Canada or the US have.And when I
    gave the price conversion I just wanted you to get the idea of how
    much it meant in $$.I guess it's easier not to.So let's assume $1=1ns
    and thus 4ns=$4.Still it's not expensive ($4 a month--I pay a whole
    lot for junks)
    We do pay alot less for fruit and vegies though,and a nice dress would
    cost around 100ns.imported Jeans are quite expensive (imagine paying
    $150 for a pair of Lee!!!)
    .15 it all depends where you live.Tel Aviv IS exensive but so is
    Boston.If you live out of big cities like we do-it's not that bad.
    We pay 1500ns/month for mortgage (20 years).I know people in Marlboro
    who pay more that $1600/month and they have to pay 30 years.So it's not
    so bad.
    Oh-speaking of wipes-I knew I shouldn't have open my mouth...I forgot
    the box at my sisters last night (she lives in anothe town!!!).So there
    goes 4 more shekels...
    R/

    
    	One thing to check with double coupons is exactly how they
    	double them.  One local grocery store doubles coupons, but
    	you cannot save more than $1.00.  Therefore, when I use my
    	$0.75 coupon for diapers there, they give me an additional $0.25
    	off, for a total of $1.00.  MOST supermarkets that double give
    	you double the face value up to a face value of $0.99.  (So my
    	$0.75 coupon is worth $1.50 there).
    
    	For those of you that can keep your grocery budget below $50,
    	does that include all meals ?  Our budget includes all lunches
    	for everyone except maybe one per week.
    
    	Karen
    

    I have yet to hear of any grocery store in Canada that doubles
    coupons at all! Their most innovative idea is that if you buy more
    than x amount ( 2 or 3) of a certain item, the price/unit goes down.
    
    Monica 8-( 
    (I WISH they'd double my coupons!!!)

    Hi back again, I work out of the office on Fridays and so often can't
    get to add to notes files then.

    	Regarding coupons, I almost never use them, the products that we
    use are almost never the ones that spend big bucks to advertise. Of
    course our store does not double coupons and so that is a big
    disadvantage right there.

    	Mostly we use generic items with a few exceptions, I've found that
    if you add *quality* and often expensive flavorings, you can turn an
    ordinary meal into something that is pretty tasty. Examples are,
    Gourmet Feta cheese (we use about 1/5 of the package to flavor a meal)
    we also get expensive Parmesan cheese for the same reason, a little
    adds a lot of flavor and so you don't end up using lots. We make our
    own bread (we had a bread machine before we started this budget thing,
    would have never gotten it now) and you'd be surprised how an herbed
    loaf of fresh bread can make a pasta dinner great. We also use Sun
    dried tomatoes as an addition to our meals, a little goes a long way.

    	To live in our house, you'd better like vegetables and pasta, often
    we just saute what is around and throw it on top of pasta (which we got
    on sale when it was 5 boxes for 2.00) again, herbs and flavorings make
    all the difference. We almost always boil up an entire box of pasta at
    once so you'd better like leftovers as well (guess what's in my lunch
    today in a used margarine container).

    	Bottled dressing? never in our house, we make our own out of herbs
    and oil and vinegar (we don't like creamy dressings). We have a small
    herb garden this year and have plans to have a larger one next year.

    	Most of our choices are based on recyling and trash considerations,
    we bring our trash to the dump and when you realize that that means you
    physically throw your trash over a ledge *onto the ground* you start
    realizing what a major problem trash can be.

    	We try to recycle as much as we can, we compost the "wet veggies"
    garbage. We use fresh area vegetables both because it's cost effective
    but there is also no packaging and we are supporting local economy. (I
    purchased $7.20 of vegetables yesterday and that is enough to last us
    for a week).

    	We take advantage of the proliferation of zucchini and squash at
    this time of year, when I can find it I'll post a squash soup that is
    out of this world (considered a real treat in our house). We are still
    eating some vegetables that a friend brought up last weekend from her
    garden.

    	We try to keep our weight down because it's healthy and globally
    you eat less when you are at the right weight which means less demand
    and ultimately (although not the primary reason) less money.

    	Because we don't eat much meat, we add protein in other ways.
    Peanut butter in brownies (who said protein couldn't be fun), we also like
    hummus and of course TVP.

    	I've wondered about food coops and wouldn't mind looking into them
    in our area. One of the deterrents right now is time to do that.

    	We try to salvage and fix things. (I recently repaired one of those
    bag clips with a popsicle stick and some electrical tape, it's not
    pretty but it works and it's not sitting in the dump.)

    	Sounds like a lot of work but it has become a lifestyle for us, and
    interestingly enough, by being "ecologically aware" (is that the
    current P.C. term?) we are also saving money. The earth does not need
    an advertising budget.

    	Oh, we do have our shortcomings, but we try as much as we can and
    when we find another method that is better than ours, we try that one.


                          Wendy

    
    	One more on coupons...
    
    	I try to combine my coupons with "in-store" coupons, so if
    	the store is offering Cheerio's "buy one get one free", I'll
    	add my own manufacturer's coupon and get an additional 50 cents
    	off the one box I'm paying for.
    
    	I'll usually pick these up even if I've got two boxes in the
    	cabinet, as I eat them and Emily eats them.
    
    	Also, if I'm trying to decide between breakfast cereals for the
    	week (I alternate between three or four types besides the
    	cheerios), I'll opt for the one that's cheapest when you combine
    	the store sales and the coupons.
    
    	I used to save an average of 15% a week on groceries, but haven't	
    	been getting the sunday paper for over 6 months, so our coupon
    	savings have doubled.  I used coupons a bit differently than most,
    	however.  I would add in the savings from the coupons while I
    	shopped (I carry a calculator with my coupon pouch), and would
    	spend the money I save to stock up on sale items.  So, my bill
    	would always be $75, no matter how many coupons I used.  This way,
    	I could load up the freezer with meat bought in bulk, or store
    	spaghetti sauce in the cabinet, etc.
    
    	Karen
    
    
    

Question:

I've always bought name brand liquid laundry detergent.  I always them when
they are on sale at a store that doubles or triples coupons so I get
a pretty good deal.  I buy at the lower end priced end of name brand soaps
(ie. Dash, not Tide).  I belong to BJ's but have never bought laundry
detergent in bulk there because you can only use one coupon and it is
not even doubled.  

So, here are my questions:

1.  For those of you that buy laundry liquid at Bj's and the like, 
    are you really saving anything?  I haven't researched it myself,
    just assumed that buying on sale with coupons at the grocery store
    must be cheaper.  I could be wrong so fill me in!

2.  Does brand name laundry detergent do a better job than an equal
    amount of the generic brand?  If not, then I must be wasting my
    money!  

Karen

    
    	The following is a squash soup recipe (taken from the vegetarian
    notesfile with credits) that is marvelous! This makes a large batch and
    often gives us wonderful leftovers. Serve it with crusty bread. Cost is
    pennies if you use farmstand squash (we use that large orange pear
    shaped squash) People often give away squash from gardens and this is a
    nice way to "amsk" squash and serve it in a different way.
    
    
    	Don't let the name scare you, this is top notch stuff.
    
    	I also have a peanut African stew that uses vegetables (what ever
    you have including cabbage) that is a favorite "Fall" stew in our
    house. (it was cold enough this morning that is got me thinking about
    it). I'll post it when I get the chance.
    
    	I must admit, we sure do eat well in our house!
    
    				Wendy
    
    
    	__________________________________________________________________
             <<< SAFRON::S$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]VEGETARIANISM.NOTE;1 >>>
                     -< Digital Vegetarian Interest Group >-
================================================================================
Note 173.1               Squash/apple soup recipe wanted                  1 of 2
TRUCKS::GKE                                          36 lines  18-SEP-1990 09:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I know I know!!  I've even made it!
    
    In New England, where I grew up, we used a good butternut squash
    for this..
    
    Anyway it used to go like this:  (more or less, this does not have
    to be exact)
    
    2 cups of cubed squash
    2 cups of cubed apple
    1 onion cubed
    a few big TBS butter
    about 1/2 cup of cream
    seasonings to include salt, pepper, a pinch of powdered coriander
 
    Saute the cubed squash, apple and onion in the butter until coated
    and just starting to colour a little.  Add several cups of water
    and cook until all vegetables and apple are tender.  Add this to
    the blender or food processor and puree until very very fine.  Return
    to pan and warm gently.. stir in cream and seasonings and keep just
    below boiling until flavours have melded and soup has developed..
    (about 10 mins.)
    
    Serve with very delicate croutons that have been sauted in butter
    with just a little seasoning.. (anything else would overpower the
    soup)
    
    (This soup can be seasoned with a hint of cinnamon and nutmeg as
    well.. I can just hear RKE now!! ;-) ) 
    
    I once made a very similar soup for Thanksgiving from pumpkin and
    I served it in a hollowed out pumpkin.... I wonder if you could not 
    do something similar with hollowed out squashes but as individual
    bowls!
    
    gailann

re laundry detergents ...

We have found that the effectiveness of any given detergent depends
greatly on the mineral content of the water.  Here in Ottawa, brands
like Tide perform reliably better than the cheaper name brands and
the generics.

We have also found no value in using liquid detergents ... they performed
no better than the powders.  With a liquid detergent, you are paying for
water to dilute the powder and a plastic bottle.  If you like a liquid,
because of avoiding lumps of undissolved soap, predissolve it in hot
water from your tap!  Liquids certainly cost substantially more here in
Canada per wash load.

Stuart

    I have to put a "BUT" on your comments, Stuart;
	
    I have a lot of dark clothes, and powder detergents, no matter
    how they are applied (diluted or now) will often give my clothes 
    powder stains. 
    
    Monica

    Yet another way to use up some of the fall harvest, (I read this in a
    cookbook last week and it worked like a charm!) 

    	You know those eggplants that everyone has and no one knows what to
    do with? Take them all.

    	Prick the eggplant with a knife several times and bake it in an
    oven at 350 for about 40 minutes (at 20 minutes flip it so the other
    side is "roasted").

    	Take out and let cool, Peel it (with your fingers no peeler for
    me). Chop it up and add it to red sauce to which you had already added
    oh, let's see, green peppers, onions, and a tomato. Add some, ah,
    oregano and basil, and serve over pasta with Feta.

    	Great meal, quick, low cost, and insanely easy (my favorite
    combination).

    			Wendy

    			Wendy

Weird,  the only time we have had problems with powders is when they are
ultra cheap, or damp ... It may have something to do with how effective the
washer's rinsing ability is ???

One concern, this string about cost saving ideas looks like it should
maybe be in the consumer notes file ... 

Stuart

I love to cook, so I make a lot of things in big batches and freeze.  A
lasagna, for instance, can be made for dinner with the leftovers cut up 
into individual servings and put in the freezer.  Then you just take one
out and you have a lunch for the office.  And I always cook supper with
leftovers for lunch in mind, and put the leftovers in my tupperware when
I'm putting everything in the fridge, so lunches are all made for the 
morning. I just grab my container, a couple pieces of fruit, and some 
cookies, and my lunch is all set.

I make my own chicken broth, but I always make it in my 16-qt pot so I
get a huge batch (uses something like 4 chickens). Then I freeze the broth
in ice cube trays, and dump those into zip-lock bags.  That way, I always
have chicken broth or bouillon in the freezer and can take out whatever
a recipe calls for.  I cut up the cooked chicken from the broth and put that
in zip-lock bags so that I have chicken already in the freezer and cooked 
for things like chicken pot pie or chicken enchiladas, both of which go
over very well in my house and also yield leftovers that can be frozen
for other meals.  

I also make huge batches of squash and applesauce in the fall (that 16-qt
pot comes in very handy), and freeze or can it for the remainder of the year.
I have found that 15-20 pounds of squash is enough for us to make it to the
next year, and I can cook all that in one day and just freeze it.  

I think that if you can identify what your family likes to eat or what you
cook a lot, you can find ways to make large batches and freeze it so that
you've always got something in the freezer.

And I envy you folks who can use whatever laundry detergent is on sale. Tide
is the only thing I can use as I am allergic to a lot of scents. I'm sure
there must be other detergents I can use, but after my one attempt with ERA
that landed me in the emergency room because the allergic reaction was so
bad, I'm a little gun-shy to try any other detergents.  But I do make use
of those $1 off coupons that are frequently in the paper, so I stock up in
a big way when it goes on sale.

Cathy

    	Another way to save money, cut your kids hair. I'm not talking
    about putting a bowl on your kids head and cutting the hair but *learn*
    how to give a decent hair cut. It's not that hard and with practice,
    you too.....

    	I sent away for a video (14.95) that shows how to cut both girls
    and boys hair (I needed to see it, pictures in a book didn't work for
    me). I've already given Spencer a hair cut and by the time I figure
    this out (and by the time he starts to care what his hair looks like),
    I should be pretty good at it. 

    	Some friends of ours gave had their son's (same age as Spencer)
    hair cut and it cost 10 without the tip. That's a lot of money for
    something you can learn yourself. (also saves on time, we don't have to
    make an appointment).
    
    	The day may come when Spencer no longer wants me to cut his hair
    (those troublesome teen years ;-)) and that's okay, but even then, the
    money we save up to that point would be worth the effort.

    			Wendy

    	
               

One of my summer jobs was to rip the DelMonte
label off fruit cans so they could be replaced
with store brand labels.  Fruit will be relabeled
"down" so to speak, but never up.  (Never ripped
the store brand off and put on name brand).
For this reason, store brands can be inconsistent
in quality.  Doesn't matter much unless you plan
to eat whatever as is.

    Alright. So you have been a keener, went and redeemed those
    double coupons to try a new cereal for the family because its 
    on sale. You bring it into the house only to find: No one like it!
    And your stuck with a box of cereal. 
    This is a familiar story at our house, and I have found a solution
    for that and all the little "crumby" rests at the bottom of the box
    no one wants. 
    
    Choice one: I end up eating it, either as cereal with milk, or 
    dry, as a snack at work. Well, I am not always happy with this
    solution, no matter how healthy the cereal is supposed to be.
    
    Choice two: I've found a way to incorporate them into a sort of
    a "kitchen sink" muffin recipe I have. And NO-ONE has a problem 
    eating the results. 
    
    Alan finds this very funny - "You've learned that 'sneak it into 
    some other food thing' from your mother, haven't you!" But he eats
    it!
    
    I'll post in our recipe note, if anyone is interested (maybe its just
    my household that has a number of half-eaten cereals lying around 8-) )
    
    Monica

    The September 1993 issue of Consumer Reports (arrived yesterday
    at our house) has an interesting set of articles on supermarket
    shopping.
    
    One shows a cost comparison of buying store brands versus buying
    the big brands.  You can save upwards of $2500/year buying the
    generic!
    
    Definitely worth it; I'm particularly fond lately of the "President's
    Choice" generic brand stuff sold at Star Markets in the Boston area.

    >>Definitely worth it; I'm particularly fond lately of the "President's
    >>Choice" generic brand stuff sold at Star Markets in the Boston area.
    
    Me too!!! 
    
    Its Canadian - Loblaws supermarkets in Canada is behind President's
    Choice. I have always found it one of the fringe benefits of moving
    to Ontario - they have a pretty nice selection of stuff and are coming
    out with more and more great products. I was pleased to see that 
    ol' Dave Nichols has started selling his stuff in the US  - I think
    its available in Australia now too!
    
    Monica

From the "Did you know ?" trivia department ....

that President's Choice products are the upscale generic brands prepared
by a company called Sunfresh (who produce a lot of generic foods) who are
owned by the Canadian food conglomerate Galen Weston ... who own such
supermarket chains as Loblaws and Zehrs ...

So the next time you eat PC "The Decadent" chocolate chip cookies, you're
eating a bit of Canada!

Stuart

    My mom is an avid coupon clipper and always passes them around.  I find
    that I have no use for them because I usually buy store-brand on most
    items - I buy store brand soda/soft drinks for the kids but buy name
    brand for husband and me.  I buy all the cereals in store-brand.  One
    day I bought the real Rice Krispie vs the usual store brand and my
    husband said it was awful - really hard and almost stale-like.  We went
    back to the store-brand.
    
    I also buy scott bathroom tissue because in our house we have sheet
    pullers - the more sheets the better.  
    
    -sandy
    

	Because so many of you have asked, (and because I've been paying
especially close attention to this recently so as not to appear dishonest ;-))

	The following is our week's food purchase:

	2 onions
	2 green peppers
	6 squash
	2 tomatoes
	1 eggplant
        1 bag of carrots
	5 peaches
	5 plums
	Sprouts
	1 loaf of bread
	1/2 lb baked ham
	1/2 lb American cheese
	English muffins
	Chicken chunks (for Spencer's lunch)
	A package of Feta
	1 can of frozen white grape juice
	1 can of frozen apple juice

	(there might be something else that I am forgetting, I don't have the
slip with me right now)

	Cost: 26 dollars and change

	Using the above and adding what we already have (rice, pasta, TVP,
spices, condiments, coffee (10 lbs, for 10.00) potatoes, peanut butter, jam) we
have (more than) enough food for the week.

	During the week, I'll make cookies and at least one loaf of bread.

	It's important to note that we don't drink milk in our house and Marc
and I drink water with our meals.

	By the way, Griffin just had his first taste of cereal last night (big
boy) and so we'll be adding a box of that every few weeks. Also, as I plan on
stopping to pump relatively soon, Griffin will also start needing to have
formula during the day. 

	Looks like Griffin is going to blow our food budget out of the water
			;-)



			Wendy
                                                                           

We also buy lots of store brands.  Our local grocery store (Kroger) even doubles
coupons (up to 50�), but the store brands on most items are still cheaper.  Some
items are not worth it, however.  We tried the store brand catsup and pretty
much tossed it after the first try, the same with store brand spaghetti-o's.

We also have a 13 cu ft freezer so we can take advantage of sales and stock up
on a lot of things, although I tend to go overboard sometimes....

Dave

    One of the biggest cost savings I've found is to plan and shop less
    frequently.  When I worked for another company and got paid once a
    month, I would shop on pay day for the month.  I only entered the store
    after that to get necessaties (milk, bread, maybe some fresh
    vegetables).  Now that I get paid once a week, I shop once a week and
    I calculated that I'm spending about 40% more.  
    
    I guess it's time to plan a little better.
    

    Well, I can't even touch you guys for cost savings.  We don't have much
    in the way of coupons and I never heard of doubling them.  But I have a
    few things I do.
    
    As Wendy suggested, I cut my children's hair.  My sister was a
    hairdresser and taught me so i can give a pretty professional hair cut.
    Also, my husband puts color in my hair if I'm feeling really dashing
    :-)  (Whoops, the cats out of the bag ! :-0  Markus still INSISTS that
    I cut his hair, Dirk prefers the hairdressor now.
    
    Things that annoy me: I hate triple layer toilet paper.  The kids will
    pull the same length off the roll no matter how many layers it is.  The
    fewest layers I can buy is 2 so I buy double ply WHITE.
    
    We use next to nothing in the way of aluminum foil.  I'll use plastic
    wrap before aluminum and reusable anything before either.
    
    I hate concentrated _______.  Especially when I had au pairs and
    cleaning ladies.  Concentrated only meant that my laundry or dishwasher
    got a double dose.  Now that I do it myself I will sometimes buy the
    stuff but I cut the recommended amount by about a factor of three.
    
    We don't have generics.  I also have a husband with a skin problem so I
    tend to stick with tried and true no matter the cost.
    
    We're meat eaters.  I can't change that, especially for myself.  But,
    to satisfy that taste, I find recipes that use meat in small
    quantities.  Spaghetti Carbonara, Nasi Goreng, Gratins avec Jambon, are
    a few that come to mind.  When I serve meat then I try to keep the
    portions down and make like quantities of the rest.  And of course we
    like and eat a lot of cheese here, not that that is any better for you
    :-)
    
    cheryl
    

    I go to a local bakery thrift shop for our bread.  Yesterday, I bought:
    
    		2 loaves of 100% whole wheat bread
    		2 loaves of cinnamon raison bread
    		32 hotdog buns (my family picnic is this weekend)
    		32 hamburger buns
    		2 pkg english muffins
    		2 bags of Kruncher potato chips
    
    My total came to $11.49.  My "Frequent Shopper Punch Card" was full for
    I got $4.00 off my bill.  I ended up paying $7.49.
    
    

    The last time I went to a bakery thrift shop, the English muffins
    went moldy before the week was out and the bread was almost too stale
    to eat.  I buy the store brand.  I also calculate the cost in time and
    energy of chasing special after special, and I wonder if it's really
    worth it...
    
    Cheryl made a good point -- MEASURE your laundry detergent, automatic
    dishwasher detergent, etc.  This way, your clothes/dishes will get
    clean, you won't damage the machinery and most important, you won't
    waste detergent, laundry aids (Borax, bleach, etc.) and so on.
    
    Like another noter said, the best way to save $$ on food is to stay out
    of the store!!

    I have found this note to be very interesting. I spend on the average
    of $130 per week for groceries, which includes diapers for one child.
    We drink 5 gallons of milk each week, alone!
    
    I was brought up on brand names and find some of the generic items
    hard to get used too, ie: ketchup, mayo, bread, but I'm sure we could
    get used to them. I also opt for convenience over cost.  I know we waste 
    a lot because I leftovers never seem very appealing to me.
    
    I know I spend a lot each week, but I thought, oh well, that's just
    what it costs, but some of the ideas in here have caused me to think 
    twice.  Thanks for starting this note, Wendy. This string has made me 
    begin to rethink what I buy and I know I can cut down considerably. My
    husband will be grateful too!
    
    
    I can think of a lot better ways to spend our money!
    
    

The Ten Commandments of Thrift:
-------------------------------
1)  Buy in bulk (diapers, paper products, meats)

2)  Buy generic (soda, juices, cookies, dairy)

3)  Use coupons when possible

4)  Recycle/Reuse (ziploc bags, foil, containers, clothes, toys)

5)  Reduce quanties used (i.e. half wipes, soda, paper towels, cleaners)

6)  Make it yourself (from food to clothes to wipes to gifts...)

7)  Shop the sales (but cautiously! buy a season ahead if possible)

8)  Don't buy what you don't NEED (sounds simple but can be TOUGH - try using
    cash vs. credit and it gets a lot easier...)

9)  PLAN AHEAD (stick to a list; don't give in to impulse purchases - do plan
    in some treats or "splurges")

10) Keep track of where the money gets spent (just being AWARE will remind
    you to curb the spending)

***********
Another "thank you" to the contributors to this note - it has really been
inspirational and has already led me to save tangible dollars on nearly
every shopping trip in recent weeks - it does add up!  I even went back
through my back issues of "PARENTS' Magazine" to clip out some great coupons
that were destined to be wasted... And, I've been "experimenting" (brand
loyalty/preference is not an easy habit to break!) with generics on some
of the higher-priced "staple" items on our weekly grocery list and have been
surprisingly pleased with the quality - definitely worth the try.

Looking forward to more "tips" and reminders that being "lazy" about the
"small change" can add up to lots of wasted money in the long run...

-Cori

    I like the tips here so far, one more has just occured to me.
    
    I go to the warehouse, buy my window cleaner in bulk say a gallon jug,
    but then buy an equal amount of ordinary ammonia, which cost quite a
    bit less than regular window cleaner.  I mix mine half and half, but it
    is a potent smell just be aware.  I put this in one of the spray
    bottles you can buy for a buck or less, instead of buying the cleaner
    in a ready to spray bottle, which ends up breaking halfway through
    anyway.  If the regular ammonia smell is too much, I will buy the store
    brand of Pine Scent ammonia which is a little easier on the nose.
    
    I always shop with my first choice being store brands, if I'm not
    buying the brand names at the warehouse store.  I have a secret passion
    that as soon something new and great hits the shelves, I pray the store
    will come up with their own brand of it, just to save me money!  I
    can't tell you how thrilled I was when I discovered a couple weeks ago
    that Shaws has come up with it's own version of the Handle tie kitchen
    bags!
    
    Just a comment, no matter who's store brand it is, no one in my house
    has ever commented positively on the store brands of soda, especially
    the colas and diet colas.
    
    

    Lyn came up with a good point, about buying in bulk.  I bought a big
    gallon jug of Shout, the "stain stuff," as my son calls it, and 
    have been (carefully!) pouring the contents of the big bottle into
    a smaller bottle.  This also works for shampoo, liquid soap, etc.
    Just be real sure to do all your pouring over the sink so you can
    rinse away any spills!!  I like the money savings, and because I'm
    not throwing a bazillion small plastic containers into the garbage, I
    feel like I'm doing something for the environment.
    
    

I took a look at the latest Consumer Reports' article on supermarkets.  They
tout the advantages of food warehouses, showing a price comparison.  I
didn't see them differentiate between things that it's reasonable to buy
in large packages (detergent, etc.) and things that aren't (a 4 lb. can
of tuna).

>>    Just a comment, no matter who's store brand it is, no one in my house
>>    has ever commented positively on the store brands of soda, especially
>>    the colas and diet colas.
	
	Funny you should say this... I've always disliked generic soda
	myself.  However, i just had a store brand soda that was very
	good!  It was called Sam's Choice and can be gotten at Sams and
	at Walmarts.  I tried the diet cola.

	Karen
    
    

RE: store brand soda's


Depends upon your taste.  Brand name Ginger Ale
tends to be milder than the generic brands.  I
very much prefer the strong taste, so for me,
the cheaper the better.

Pat

    My aunt in California gave me this one - she attends a 
    "professional-class" knitting course and her instructor told her 
    that she need not use "Zero" or "Woolite" to clean the delicates
    of her wash -- a simple equivalent amount of the cheapest "store brand"
    baby shampoo will do the same job.
    
    Having a very large amount of trust in my Aunt about these things
    (she could have co-written the "Tight-wad Gazette", deserves 
    "Worlds Most Accomplished Domestic Engineer" Award, etc etc).
    I will definitely try it as soon as I have a full load of
    delicate.
    (since it is beginning to get into "sweater season" up here, that 
    will be real soon!)
    
    Monica

    
    Well, I was just looking over this note and loved it!  I just 
    bought The Tightwas Gazette II and have learned a lot and have
    already started saving.  My question is, however, how would you
    pursuade a 'spendthrift' husband to see the benefits of
    tightwaddery (aside from the fact that it will give him more
    of the money to spend! 8*)
    
    So, although Wendy is gone, I'm sure there are some other
    'tightwad's out there whose husbands are tightwads too.
    
    Did you have to convince him or did he come to it naturally?
    
    
    Thanks, Pam

    
    
    It is easier to convince someone to save for a purpose,
    like vacation, retirement, college, etc. Saving just for
    the purpose of saving is not very "rewarding".
    
    I can give you a "spendthrift's" perspective, maybe
    that'll help you deal with your husband.
    
    I am not good with saving money, but if I have a goal
    that is important to me, I'll make the appropriate 
    adjustments. The biggest tradeoff I've encountered
    is time versus money. For example, I could drive to
    the store 10 miles away for a cheaper product, say
    $10 cheaper, but that will take 20 extra minutes. 
    I could spend the 20 minutes with my family, or read
    a book. So, I have to ask myself, will I rather be $10 
    less poor or 20 minutes happier? Unless, I am really 
    tight or I am saving for something more fun, I will not 
    bother with the $10. 
    
    I am not good at "delayed" satisfaction, like waiting
    till we retire and enjoy. Life is very short
    and unpredictable. There are things that I will not
    be able to do as well at 55 for sure. I may not be able to
    live till 55, so unless I have to fulfil responsiblilites
    (like paying mortgage), I will spend the money at the age
    I can get the most return. 
    
    
    
    
    Eva