Conference moira::parenting

> I'm just consumed by this, and need help.  

I think you answered your own question.

                      <<< Note 536.0 by STOWOA::DOONAN >>>
                         -< Am I losing my 7-yr-old? >-

There must be someone out there who's experiencing what I'm going through these 
days.

<I lay awake at night worrying that I am slowly "losing" my 7-year-old son, and 
<there's no way I can get him back.

This boy is genetically predispositioned to be a worrier!


<Third, for a 7-year-old, he worries like an adult.  You can just see it on his 
<face.  He worries about not being able to fall asleep quickly (which has been 
<happening lately), about if his parents die and who will watch over him, about 
if other kids make fun of him because he is rather small, about never getting 
<bigger, etc.  The list gets longer and longer.  He thinks so deeply about things 
<it sometimes scares us.  No doubt most of this is normal kid stuff, but it often 
<prevents him from enjoying the carefree type of life that he should be living.

Hmmmmm - maybe someone else at your house does this too?


<Patrick has me in such emotional knots - I had to have failed him somewhere, and  
<now I desperately want to change things.  I love him so much, and have tried to 
<be the best father to him, but I know now that we've let him rule us more than 
<vice versa.  It seems like my wife and I exert more emotional and physical 
<energy on him than on the other two combined, and this is starting to haunt us.  
<Honest to God, I have crazy dreams of him running away from home at 15, robbing 
<a bank, and screwing up the rest of his life.

Wow - thats a lot of guilt!

<Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?  Should we seek counselling?  


<But I don't want to run off for help for everything.

Why not?  

If you are worried enough to write this note - that's enough justification 
for me.  Call EAP - you have my permission!

BTW, my experience with the WORK/FAMILY Directions (1-800-635-0606) specialist
was very positive, one phone session with one follow up.

*******************************************************************************

IMHO

Patrick sounds like a very bright, intelligent child.  Your description pretty
much fits my 8_going_on_60 old.  

	1. Great student, his friends call him "the brain"
           "the brain" btw still emptys trash and picks up his socks.
           We are always amazed at the comments on the report card,
           "We're talking about Sean FERRIS???"

	2. Torment your sister.  Yep, they're best friends and
           worst enemies.  I think this is normal.

	3. Can't get himself to sleep.  That imaginative, brilliant mind has 
           trouble winding down .  We let him read a little
           and he resolves all fights with his sister so she'll sleep with
           him.  Monsters and fires are popular categories for worry at our
           house.  Sleeping with his 2 year old sister eases his mind. 

	4. Hates before/after school daycare.  Yep.  This is a very popular
	   problem with lots of kids his age around here.  I attended a few 
	   sessions with him.  It was dreadful. Found another solution that 
           worked for all of us.  

	5. SMART MOUTH - Ug.  I always thought it was a side effect of
           the brilliant mind.  Popular phrases around our house:

			Don't talk to me like that.
			
			I don't like your tone.
			
			How would you like it if I said that to you?
			
			We don't call names.
			
			I love you but I don't like the way your
			talking.

	   There are some great reference books to read, this conference
	   has several pointers.  HOW TO TALK SO YOUR KIDS WILL LISTEN
	   comes to mind.  

I believe that your son is testing his independence and challenging your
limits.  Can we throw in some sibling rivalry here too?  We've got 
8, 3 and 10 months?  The rivalry stuff comes and goes.  

I bet Patrick is a great and very normal kid {like mine}!

Regards,

Rochelle

    I agree with Rochelle.  You tend to hear about the "stages"
    for babies, but never hear about the other "stages" of growing
    up.
    
    We went through the same thing with my son, who is almost 9
    now.  My daughter has now started doing it as well.  She is
    almost 7.
    
    Try not to be too hard on yourself.  It's nothing you did or
    didn't do.  Just try to stick to your guns with your punishment.
    It will eventually pass, like all the other stages.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Peggy
    

    I think professional help would be great in this situation.
    
    Maybe this is in the normal range of behavior, but it doesn't seem like
    it feels that way to you, so why not get some help in determining this?
    
    If everything is "fine" and this is just his personality, maybe you
    could get some help on how to deal with your end - the guilt, how to
    deal with his behavior in front of others, etc.  Maybe you'll have
    gained some peace of mind and some helpful skills too.
    
    If something else is bothering or affecting your son, he'll be getting
    the help you need.
    
    Can't lose, can you? 
    
    Going for help 2 times in 7 years doesn't sound like "every little
    thing".  It sounds like getting help when you need it.
    
    Good luck!

    RE: Therapy/counselling
    
    My sister is having a time with her pre-teen.  She and her husband went
    to counselling with and without their daughter.  She found it a big
    help to her because she learned some things she was "doing wrong" as a
    parent that invoked the reactions she got from her daughter.  She has
    put into practice some of the things she discovered and has made some
    good progress.  Remember - the problems you are having are a two way
    street - you need to know how to respond just as he needs to know how
    to act/re-act...I believe it would be a good experience for all
    involved.
    
    -sandy
    

While all of what you wrote appears to be normal stuff I too see that maybe the
stress of parenting is getting to you. It gets to all of us sooner or later.
Take some time to find someone to talk to who has more experience than you 
(writing in here is a good first step!) or who deals with this professionally. 

Remember this:

	The things you teach and instill in your child today must be retaught
over and over. The fruits of that labor will unlikely be readily apparent to
you until your child has his own children. Children are human and have less
knowledge and practice at life so will make more mistakes more than once. 

    
    Short of going to counseling - which is a GREAT thing to do, as often
    as needed, IMO -  I *STRONGLY* second a book referenced by an earlier
    noter..
    
    "how to talk so your kids will listen; How to Listen So your Kids Will
    Talk"
    
    EXCELLENT Book
    
    Good Luck
    Jamd

    
    Hi,
    
    I don't have a 7 year old  --I have an 18 month old son, so I'm
    probably not really qualified to respond here.  But, I just wanted
    to say that what really comes across in your letter is the tremendous
    love you obviously have for your son.  Over the long, this will have
    a bigger impact than you realize yet, I think.  Also, I wanted to
    mention a book that a friend told me about, who has a son who sounds
    much like your son.  It's called "Raising Your Spirited Child" (maybe
    "Raising A Spirited Child).
    
    Best of luck to you and your son.
    
    Lynn
    

    See note 17.28 for a description of Raising Your Spirited Child.
    
    I think you will find much that applies.  Your son is very bright,
    thoughtful, and intense.  Good qualities in the long run, sometimes
    hard to be the parent for now, though!
    
    Laura

    I have an 8 year old, and can definitely understand what you're going
    through.  The "worrying" I think is more normal in older kids, and in
    particular around this age.  Chris is also "a brain" and gets hell for
    that, and for being a little goofy, so he's always picked on at the
    playground.  Where does all his frustration go??  Right towards his
    little brother.  On the w/ends, they do almost-great together.  Monday
    morning, on the way to school, Chris is verbally ripping off Jason's
    head for LOOKING at him.
    
    I've tried many different ways to try to calm things down, and make
    sure that Chris knows that he is really loved, and that it really IS
    good to be smart etc, but there's nothing much that I can do to make
    the tormenting of other children, have less of an impact, or make him
    feel less like an outcast.
    
    About the only thing we've found that has helped, has been to get him
    into Karate.  I think it's helped him a lot.  He started last Aug/Sep,
    and has his Purple belt now.  It's given him the confidence to know
    that he can handle himself, and pretty much anyone else (kids) who try
    to bug him.  It's given him a focus and a place to channel his anger
    and frustration.  After a really bad day at school, I notice that he'll
    come home and practice his karate kicks/moves/punches until he's gotten
    himself "back in control" again.  
    
    I think that part of a "curse" of being smart is that they tend to be
    more rational, and in Chris' case, he just can't UNDERSTAND why the
    kids won't just leave him alone, and why they have to bug him when it's
    totally unprovoked.  After/before school programs are just as bad, if
    not worse, than school itself.  In "daycare", there's less 'adults'
    around to keep the other kids in line, and there's nothing that your
    son has to really FOCUS on to draw his attention away from the abuse he
    receives.
    
    As a parent, I think it's important to sit with your son each night and
    discuss EXACTLY what happened at school.  Find out who picked on him
    (because he's small, and smart, or whatever), EXACTLY what they
    said/did, how he reacted, and what might have been a more effective
    reaction in the future.  I've found that there's 1 or 2 kids that tend
    to single out another kid, and are relentless to that kid, except that
    it's never anything that you can DO anything about.  A lot of hurtful
    teasing.  Talking to "someone in charge" may help you there - if
    nothing else, they'll know to keep an eye out if the kids are
    "together".  
    
    I'm looking forward to the summer with Chris because he's in a home
    daycare all summer, and I know that he won't get the abuse that he gets
    on a daily basis during the school year.
    
    See if you can talk to Patrick, or notice any type of a pattern with
    him.  If he knows he gets to "stay home" the next day, is he a lot
    nicer/better behaved the next?
    
    As for him acting out, I'd like to suggest that he has a problem that
    he can't deal with, and for whatever reason doesn't feel like you can
    or are dealing with it (or maybe he doesn't want you to have to "be
    bothered" - kids are strange), and so he feels if he acts out in front
    of people that he's closer to, maybe THEY'LL help him out.  I'd say
    it's a cry for help on his part, but I'm certainly not an expert in
    this field.  And why doesn't he act up in class?  Because it's the one
    place where he's actually "rewarded" for being so smart.
    
    So, in summary, I'd suggest ... TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK to him, and
    don't let him get away with "nothing's wrong".  Make him think through
    and follow through the "I don't knows" until you get to the bottom of
    the situation.  Give him an outlet for his aggravations.  Karate's kind
    of expensive ($40./mo, for 2 lessons/week), but maybe a basketball and
    net in the driveway, or something else that he'd be able to do "by
    himself" and without having to always be taken to, will help.  And if
    you see him out there pounding the ball into the pavement, it can kind
    of be a signal to you that he needs to talk .... or wants some time
    with Dad, or away from his siblings, or to be alone, or something like
    that.  I WOULD suggest making it something JUST for Patrick.  He
    probably is feeling a lot of pressure on "sharing everything" and
    perhaps a little lack of identity.  Let Pat be the basketball star, and
    it's HANDS OFF to the rest of the kids, on Pat's ball, unless HE gives
    it to them.  
    
    Realize that a lot of it is "oldest kid" stuff ... he has to "struggle"
    for every right and privilege, when the younger ones benefit from your
    experience.  Reward his age.  He has to pick up more because he's older
    - does that also mean he can have a DOUBLE scoop of ice cream because
    he's older?  We usually tend to overlook those things...
    
    I think it's pretty normal, but I also think that he's acting out to
    try to resolve some problem(s) that he's unable to deal with himself. 
    If he's like most oldest kids, there's always been emphasis placed on
    being the "big" boy in the family, and perhaps he feels like he SHOULD
    be able to deal with this, which is why he's not willing to just bring
    it up himself.
    
    He loves you too ... probably even more than you realize.  He wants
    your help.  If you don't know what to do, then you owe it to him to go
    someplace where you can all get the answers you need.
    
    And take faith in one thing ... these kids turn out to be REALLY
    wonderful adults because the adult world is a lot kinder, and a lot
    more rational than what our children deal with, with their peers each
    day.  When he's 20, no one will care that he's a little smaller than
    everyone else.  When he's 7, it's a *BIG* deal.
    
    Sorry to get so long-winded about this ... I remember (most every day)
    how much it tears at me to see what these other little people are doing
    to my son, and to know that I'm pretty much helpless to prevent it.  If
    you'd like to talk offline, please drop me some mail.
    
    Take care, and good luck with Patrick.  Sometimes an extra hug, or
    taking that hour that you don't have, and watching some tv side by
    side, can turn their whole day around.  How would you act if you were
    tormented all day at work??
    
    Patty
    
    

First, whatever happens, let us know how it goes - what is
working, what isn't, how *you* are doing.

Second, you say you are lying away at night worrying about
this.  It occurs to me that your son is doing exactly the
same thing.  Have you tried talking to him about how it
feels to lie away at night worrying about something?  Tell
him you worry about him, because you love him.

The last thing I noticed is that the communication you
describe with your son is all negatively based; that is,
you are expecting rotten behavior and are trying to stop it,
or punishing him for something.

Are you praising him enough for his "good" behavior?  (You
didn't say much about that type of talk).  Not
just school work, but for everyday stuff, like being
considerate to the 4 year old.  Sometimes we parents can
get in a rut of only responding to the "bad" behavior, and
kind of assuming we should get "good" behavior by default.
Changing the focus back to praising the qualities we want
to emphasize can defuse a tense situation and do a lot more
good than all the discipline in the world.

Good luck.

Pat

I am overwhelmed by your response to my base memo.  It is reassuring indeed to 
know that I've not gone crazy, that other parents have gone through the same 
things, and that so many people would take the time, and with such sincerity, 
to offer their advice.  Every bit of it is useful.

Whoever said being a parent was easy?  No one that I know of.  You just have to 
keep on working at it, rejoicing at the good days, enduring and learning from 
the bad days, and know that the next 18 years or so will be a trip all over 
God's map.  Jeez, I don't sound like the person who started this topic!

Tonight there's gonna be a lot of hugs and kisses at the Doonan residence.  Of 
course, the challenge will be to duplicate those hugs and kisses tomorrow night 
and the next night, when my Note-Euphoria comes back to earth a bit.