Conference moira::parenting

    I also believe from talking to day care center help that the pay is not 
    very rewarding - the hours are long - the environment can be very 
    stressful - and the boss (the kids) can be difficult to deal with.  I
    know we don't pay daycare people enough - but unfortunately, if they
    were paid what they were worth - we wouldn't be working, now would we??
    
    -sandy
    

That turnover rate seems high to me...I had to switch my daughters daycare a 
couple of times when she was little and I didn't like that either.  IMO, kids
need stability and having new people to take care of them all the time isn't
very stable.....

That is part of the reason that I switched from a Daycare Center to home
daycare...and I am much much happier!  (for me it's much cheaper too!)

Andrea

    Our local Bright Horizons has much lower turnover, and they
    treat the staff well.  But it costs correspondingly: we pay
    a little over a thousand dollars a month for an infant and a
    pre-schooler who both go four days a week.
    
    The numbers just don't work for child-care: if one care-taker
    earns X dollars per year, and the care-taker can handle N children,
    then each parent must pay (X/N) plus some overhead.  Since the
    government of NH in its infinite wisdom has stipulated that
    N=4 for infants and N=8 for toddlers, it follows that parents
    of an infant are paying a quarter of someone's salary.  For the
    care-taker to have the same income as a parent implies that
    a working couple pays one eighth of their income for child-care,
    and a single parent pays one quarter.
    
    The fact that most parents pay with post-tax money and the 
    care-taker pays tax on the salary make it worse: e.g. at a 20%
    marginal rate, for the care-taker to get $1.00 post-tax, she
    or he must earn $1.25, the parent must pay $0.35 (one quarter
    plus about 10% overhead) and must therefore earn $0.44.
    
    Most people don't want to pay that much, and so something must
    give, and what usually gives is the income of the care-taker.
    Getting the government involved would only shift the burden,
    not lessen it.
    
    		-John Bishop

    
    In Massachusetts, the toddler:teacher ratio is 9:2 so the economics 
    are even more an issue.
    
    Yes, the workforce has to be well paid if we are going to work...all
    the way down to the folks cleaning the bathrooms.
    
    My question for the base noter is "Do you think your children have
    suffered as a result of the turnover ?" We all got promoted and managed
    to leave the security of our kindergarten and love our first grade
    teachers. 

re: .3

A few nits.

Many parents either pay, at least partially, with pre-tax income (HCRAs) or 
pay, effectively, in-lieu of taxes (tax credit).  But If home care providers 
are the second income in the family, they probably pay more than 20%, since 
they pay 12.9% (I forget the exact number) in self-employment tax (equivalent 
to FICA) in addition to income taxes.

Clay 

When talking about stability, I think there is a big difference in moving
once in a year from kindergarden to 1st grade.  Kids are older and it
happens only once.

I had my daughter in a daycare center for 8 months.  In that time she moved
rooms once and had no less than 10 different teachers (I lost track after
a while).  The number seems high because they had 2-3 teachers in each
room and one or the other were leaving so there was some overlap.

One of the questions I asked of the center before starting was what the
turnover rate was.  They assured me that it was minimal.  Well I don't
consider 10+ changes in 8 months to be minimal.  As a parent, I never
knew who the teachers were suppose to be in each room.  Can you imagine
how a toddler must feel.  

Kids (some more than others) are real sticklers for routine.  They like
to know (at least my daughter does) who will be there when they arrive.
Having a familiar face makes seperation from Mom/Dad much easier IMHO.

Hopefully not all daycare centers have the turnover rate that I experienced.
But if it seems like yours does, and your children seem to be affected,
I would look for a more stable situation.

Barbara

    My daughter goes to Children's World in Chelmsford.  In addition to
    paid vacation after 1 year of service and tutition reimbursement they
    offer some kind of health insurance unlike many of the daycare centers
    in the area.  I know that has attracted some teachers, especially ones
    whose husbands (typically the primary breadwinner given the pay of
    childcare teachers) were layed off and lost their health insurance.  As
    others have pointed out the pay still isn't what the teachers are
    really worth, especially the ones with degrees in early childhood
    education.
    
    The head teacher my daughter had when she was in the infant room is
    pregnant and is due in July.  Even though she would like to continue
    working at the center she most likely is going to have to quit because
    she said she'll have $20 a week left over after she pays the $195 a
    week for infant care.  She wouldn't even get a 5% or 10% discount, not
    that it would help much.  The assistant director is also pregnant and
    due in July and she gets a 50% discount on infant care.
    
    Carol

At Tollhouse Preschool in Bedford, NH, my daughter Kathleen has 
only had ONE teacher leave in three years.  She's been in three
classrooms, a 3-year-old class, a 4-year-old class, and 
Kindergarten.  She's had two teachers (Lead and Assistant)in each
class.  The assistant teacher in the middle class left when she
married and moved.  Both teachers in the rooms of 3's are still 
there.  

The teachers seem to consider this to be a great place to work.

On the other hand, the center seems to have made little money, and
was recently for sale by the owner.  This week it was bought by
one of the mothers.

    The daycare center my son attends, has lost 3 teachers
    in 4 years.  All 3 teachers were in the older classes.
    The two teachers in the toddler class haven't changed since
    my son started 4 years ago.  I think the turnover rate
    in the younger classes should be low.  Kids want stability
    at the young age.  Once they turn 4, they can handle the changes
    much better and I would worry less about the turnovers.
    
    Wendy  

    My daughter has been ata Children's World Center for a few months.
    The turnover has been at home with our AU Pairs over the last 6
    months.
    
    I see new teachers in the center depending on daily attendance but I
    see the same head teacher and some of the same assistants. I have seen
    the center as providing the stability through the period of 2
    unsuccessful at home caregivers.
    
    Kids like routine and stability and they form relationships with people
    but it is not as if the whole staff turns over at once. And I think the
    kids themselves are part of the stabillity for each other.
    
    Of course, the less turnover the better but at what point is it truly
    hurting ?