Conference moira::parenting

    Punishment?  Sort of...the theory is that the child has shown
    by some action that he or she is not capable of being with 
    other people/things, so he or she must take some time away
    from playing or whatever to rest and calm down.  There's no
    pain, other than the pain of not being able to do what you 
    want.  It's thus more the withdrawal of the carrot than the
    application of the stick, and it's focused on the action 
    rather than the person.
    
    So the way you're supposed to do this (as I understand it)
    is you put the child somewhere visible but not fun (we use
    the foot of the stairs--you are _not_ supposed to use the
    bedroom, as that makes bedtime a "bad" thing).  You announce
    the time of time-out (e.g. two minutes), and set a timer.
    The point of the timer is so the child knows when the time
    is up in a way that is external to the parent's will--it
    removes personalities.  When the time is up, the child is
    free.
    
    If the child gets up during the time-out, that's a separate
    infraction, and more time is added.  If the child finishes a
    time-out and goes right back to the unwanted action, the next
    time-out is longer.
    
    We're struggling with keeping our son (3.5) on the stairs--after
    he gets up six times on a one-minute time-out, the consequent six
    minutes of extra time-out offer the opportunity for him to get
    up even more times.  Rather than cascade up to hours of time-out,
    we use a technique recommeded in books, which is to sit down,
    put the child in your lap and hold his arms so he can't hit or
    bite, and continue the time-out that way.  Theoretically, it's
    supposed to convince the child that the time-out _will_ happen,
    no matter what he or she does, and so the next time they don't
    get up.  So far it's not working perfectly for us, and it's very
    inconvenient as we have another, younger child who we can't easily
    ignore for long, but we prefer time-outs to spanking.
    
    		-John Bishop

    We've had pretty good luck so far with Danielle's time-out's. We put a
    gate up in her room and she goes in there for 3 minutes. She is not
    allowed to play with the toys while in there, and amazingly she has
    not.  A few times she screams at the top of her lungs and tries
    desperately to climb over the gate but we ignore it and she stops.
    
    Our pedi told us that you should time the time-out 1 minute per year of
    age of the child. Danielle is just about 3 so that's why we time her's
    3 minutes. That may not seem like much to an adult but to a child it
    probably feels like forever. I think time out;s are an excellent aide 
    when it comes to discipline.
    
    Sandy

We've had mixed results with time-out.  Jessica will usually stop whatever
she's doing if you just threaten a time-out, and if she actually gets
one, she stays right where she's put. In the house, we use the kitchen
chairs, and outside, we use the bottom of the steps.  She usually learns
the first time.  Brad, on the other hand, doesn't see time-out as any big
deal, and figures that being told to stop something or he will get time-out
translates to 'I've got x more minutes before someone comes and removes
me, so I better get into all the trouble I can.'  We have to restrain him
in the time-out chair as he refuses to sit there.  I have noticed on the
one occasion where I got really mad (they had gotten into the dishwasher 
while I was in the bathroom, and dropped a Corelle dish on the tile floor
just before I could get to them) and yelled at them before I put them
in time-out, they both stayed and didn't dare move til I told them to
get down. I think it was a combination of the loud noise of the dish
shattering on the floor and me being so mad that kept them in the chair.

I'm still looking for an effective way to get Brad to behave, so if
anyone's got any suggestions, I'm all ears.  It wouldn't be so bad except
that the trouble he gets into tends to be the kind where he can get
hurt, and he doesn't seem to understand 'hurt' enough  to know not to
do something.  I'm talking about things like climbing on the kitchen
table and swinging from the tiffany lamp, unplugging and then trying to
plug the light back in, climbing up the curtains, bouncing out of his
crib.....you get the idea.

Suggestions?

Cathy

    Cathy,
    Has all this heroic-proportion activity actually injured him before?
    (As I recall, one only realizes one is mortal until one is about
    30 years old or so 8-) )
    How old are the twins now? I admire your energy and ability to cope. 
    
	Monica

Actually, he's pretty much managed to remain unscathed through all these
escapades, and the few times he's actually fallen haven't seemed to
make an impression on him.  I think after all he's been through, a few
cuts and scrapes are barely noticeable!

The twins turned 2 a couple of weeks ago -- and boy, are my gray hairs
multiplying!

Cathy

    re Corelle
    
    I remember how this was advertised as "never break" tableware.
    In college I had a friend who had some:
    
    me:  Is this Corelle?
    she: Yes.
    me:  You can drop it and it won't break?
    she: Yes.
    me:  May I drop some?
    she: Yes.
    
    So I dropped a bowl from waist height.
    
    It burst into a cloud of little sharp-edged shards.  The biggest piece
    wasn't very big, and there was lots of tiny scraps.  I wound up using 
    damp paper towels to get all of it up.
    
    So be warned--Corelle is not forever.
    
    		-John Bishop

    
    Please stay on the subject of time-outs, folks.
    
    Thanks,
    Laura
    co-mod
    
    PS:  I exploded a Corelle plate by mistakenly turning on an electric
    element on which it sat.  Scary!  One of the hot shards stuck to my
    linoleum floor and caused a rip when I pulled it up.  I'm lucky neither
    Ilona nor I were injured.  I'm adding plastic plates now.  Not classy
    but practical for families.
    
    Anyhow, back to the subject of time-outs.

    Time outs can be "used" by the child also to determine if some "bad"
    action is worth it.  The length of time I use for time outs is
    completely dependant on the crime.  Jason taught me this one day when
    he says "Mommy, if I <I forget the actual crime>, will I get in
    trouble?"  I said yes, and he wanted to know if he'd get a spanking or
    a time out.  He was clearly trying to determine if the crime was worth
    the time.  So of course, my reply was "BOTH! plus another spanking when
    your father gets home!".  It stopped him.  Point being, if you always
    only give them 3 mins (or whatever), and they REALLY want to draw on
    the walls with crayon, 3 mins of sitting quietly may just be worth it
    to them!  Jason was never phased by any type of "time out" or spankings
    or anything like that.  The only thing that's affected him is to remove
    a privelege or a toy - THAT offends him enough to not commit his
    special crime (for at least the next 1/2 hour anyway (-:)
    
    Their time outs are usually at the nearest seat to the crime.  No
    particular "bad chair".  If there's no seat, the middle of the floor
    works fine too.
    
    Aren't they FUN?!! (-:

    Maybe this is an unfair question, but for what types of mis-behavior
    have you parents used time-outs?
    
    Kathy mentioned a few a couple of replies ago.  What else?
    
    The reason I ask is that I have not yet felt the need to apply a
    time-out for Nicole (she just turned 3).  I wish I could say it
    was because she is a perfect child but I know that is not true.
    I would like to say it is because I have lots of patience, but
    my husband will quickly disagree with that statement.
    
    Thanks,
    Barbara

    
    RE: Time-out for what??
    
    Gee, I wish that was a question I couldn't answer!!!  
    
    Jason is given time-outs for infractions mostly related
    to his hot temper (where'd he get that 8-)?) -  things
    like throwing (anything harder than a nerf ball), hitting,
    doing anything after being told not to.   When he was a
    little younger (he's 3.5 now), he occasionally got a chance
    to sit in the chair when he was out of control and unable
    to reason - usually due to being tired or hungry but refusing 
    to eat or rest.   A few minutes in the chair really helped 
    him to regroup; most of the time he came out of the chair
    a new kid.   
    
    I hate to paint with a wide brush but I think that time-outs
    are probably used more frequently for boys than girls...
    
    ...and then again, maybe Nicole is a perfect child!
    
    Carol 

RE .10  Barbara,

Some things we have used time-outs for (with my son who'll be 2 next month):

	o hitting (after being explicitly told not to - as in warned "if you
		   do it again you get a time-out)

	o biting (although he seems to be past this stage now) - especially
	 	   if it injured/upset another child

	o other unsafe/potentially damaging behavior (i.e. swinging the fridge
	 	   door almost off its hinges repeatedly after being told not
		   to and why after the first time)

	o throwing tantrums that just won't end (i.e. wanting *another*
		   popscicle right after finishing one - and being told "no"
		   but continuing to demand/cry/fuss/jump up and down/hit and
		   not listening to offers of other food options like fruit...)

	o calling other kids "names" with the intention of hurting their
		   feelings (i.e. "Dan is a BAD BOY!") when he hasn't gotten
		   his way (usually only if the other child is upset or if
		   it gets repeated...)

We haven't used a real timer (yet) but I will say that in our case it is a
very effective method of removing the child from an "unacceptable" situation
in a calm manner and letting him "chill"/think about cause & effect of his
actions.  When we go to retrieve him, we ask him if he's going to ____ (hit...)
or be nice and he will say he's sorry and give a hug & kiss to us or the
offended party and he seems ready to act reasonable again.

If you haven't needed it yet, you're daughter must be really good at behaving
or at modifying her behavior when she gets told "no..." - lucky for you!

Patience to all with near-2 year-olds...
-Cori

    
    More generally, I'd say the time-out is for any behavior that you 
    want to stop/prevent in your child.  Anything that you find
    unacceptable in a child.  
    
    The ones previously mentioned are certainly the most common in my
    house.  It usually seems to be limited to destructive behaviors and
    disrespect.  I don't tend to "time out" for not picking up, but they
    may lose a privilege for it.  
    
    And I've been known to send them to their room because *I* was so upset
    with their behavior it was better for everyone involved if they weren't
    right under foot at the moment.  Lets them learn that sometimes it is
    better to be scarce.  Who didn't learn THAT as a child!?
    
    Try this .... if you were a more impatient person, their "current"
    behavior might cause you to want to give them a whack on the butt. 
    Those are the time-out times.
    
    

    We use it for hitting, biting and not much else.
    
    But the need for time-outs when way up when he got a younger sister;
    when it was just him and two adults, he didn't hit us as much as he
    hits her (we didn't always want his toys, for example), and we're
    more worried about him hitting her than we were about him hitting us.
    
    		-John Bishop

As someone said a few replies back, we use time-outs to discourage 
inappropriate behavior.  In general, I don't use time-out until I've 
exhausted other avenues like just plain saying 'no' or removing them
from the situation. And with few exceptions, I always warn them first
by asking if they need a time-out or saying if you do/don't do xxx one
more time, you're going to get time-out.  The few exceptions are things
they absolutely shouldn't do or know they shouldn't do, and these tend
to be things they can get hurt with like playing with the woodstove (we
only have a problem with this when it is not on, so they do know not to
go near it when it's hot), playing with electrical outlets and things of
that nature.  I have found that just asking Jessica to stop something is
sufficient, so she practically never gets a time-out where Brad never stops,
so he gets them more often.  Perhaps your Nicole falls into the Jessica
category where she actually listens to you and does as she's asked.

With one terror and one extremely laid-back 2-year-old, I really get to 
see both ends of the spectrum, so it's not hard for me to imagine that you
haven't needed time-out with Nicole. 

Cathy

    One other similiar technique we use is having things take
    a time-out.
    
    For example, if Alex is playing with the cardboard tube from
    a roll of paper towels and starts hitting things with it, 
    we don't think that's sufficiently bad that he should take
    a time-out (as we would if he were hitting his sister).
    
    But the tube takes a "rest".
    
    		-John Bishop

    We have been through "parent training classes" that were sponsored by
    the ADHD clinic at our local large teaching hospital.  They
    specifically suggested NOT setting a timer, or at least make it so that
    when the thing timed out, the child could NOT hear it.  I can't exactly
    remember the reasoning behind this now, but it seemed to be something
    about the child feels ruled by the timer, or that the minute the child
    hears the timer ding, they jump up and run off, usually back to the
    same bad behaviour.  Rather they suggested just
    glancing at clock and mentally noting when time out should be over.
    
    Also in these classes it was definitely suggested that only ONE warning
    be given before putting the child in time out.  In our home AJ know
    that there is NO SECOND chance, and he MUST change the bad behavior
    immediately.  I have made this clear to his teachers and daycare
    providors, asking them to please help me by keeping this method
    consistant.
    
    Oh and we have a phrase in our home that really gets a quick reaction,
    "you're in trouble BIG, young man!"  He knows that means a major
    infraction of the rules.  Fortunately most of his time outs are earned
    more from "Dennis the Menace antics" than real big time stuff.  If I
    had to pick one problem with AJ (he's 6.5 now) it's simply a problem of
    NOT listening to adults, coupled with repeating the same offense over
    and over again, in an attempt to see how far he can push us.
    
    Lyn
      

    I find I have to use the timer, but I clip it to my clothing and the
    boys are usually in their rooms.  I have put them there for time-outs
    and forgotten them!  The timer is for me 8^)
    
    Along the same lines, usually the boys will remind me they are in time-
    out by calling to ask if they can get out.  I will say either yes, but
    because time is up - not because you asked; or one more minute then
    come down.
    
    Unfortunately my mental notebook erases itself too quickly!
    
    -sandy
    

    I think someone has mentioned this already, but when is  a good time to
    start the "timeouts"? Charlotte is 14 months (today!) and she was the
    "B�b� Sauvage" ( as we like to call her at times) yesterday. I'd say
    "no" and she'd continue her behaviour. On the other hand these were
    minor things - I having to make the difficult decisions now on a)
    picking my arguments and b) figuring out how swift the punishment,
    and c) making the punishment fit the crime.
    
    Even if I have all these things figured out - how much of this will
    she understand? And how do I STOP LAUGHING at some of the behaviour
    I am trying to correct !?!!? (the biggest question 8-) )
    
    Monica
     

    A built-in part of our time-out protocol is a
    discussion/wrap-up/identification that the time-out is over.
    
    This is what we have been using:
    
    o One warning that the behavoiur is inappropriate and if continued will
      result in a time-out
    
    o If the behavour continues, time-out is ordered and he goes and sits
      in my desk chair in the den
    
    o timer is set on the microwave (1 min per year of age)
    
    o When the timer goes off, one of us goes into the den, sit in the
      other chair, require eye-to-eye contact and we ask:
    
      - why were you sent for time-out?
      - what can we do to avoid the behavoir in the future?
    
      Then we:
    
      - Tell him "I love you, it is your behavoir that is unacceptable"
      - give/get a hug
      - Tell him "your time-out is over"
    
    
    After using this from approximatly 1 1/2 years old till today (he is
    five now) we time-outs occuring less and less often - the warning
    usually works   :-).
    
    JR     
    

    JR,
    Did you have difficulty at first with getting the child to stay
    put (especially at 1.5 years!)?
    
    Monica

I find it depends a lot on the kid.  With Jessica, she practically never
requires time-out as she tends to stop the bad behaviour if we just ask her
if she wants time-out.  With Brad, however, warnings have no effect, and I'm
not even sure time-out has any effect.  I give him 1 warning for most things,
but things he has been repeatedly warned about or are inherently dangerous
get an immediate time-out.  Prime example from just this morning when he
reached up to play with the stove-top controls.  He knows this is not
acceptable, it's dangerous behaviour, and he could get hurt, so I just
picked him up, told him that he is not to play with the stove and he knows
he's not supposed to, and put him in time-out.  He escaped once, so I grabbed
him, reminded him he was in time-out, and put him back. When time-out was
over, I went over to the chair and reminded him why he was there and told
him not to do that again, and asked him if he agreed.  He got hugs and
kisses, and went off to play.  I'm trying to use this method so that he
understands what he did wrong, and still knows that he is loved.

I find that as he gets older, he listens better.  There have been times
that I have had to hold him in time-out, but that hasn't happende lately.
I think it's a matter of consistency so the child learns that they have to
stay in time-out and cannot get out.  I have gone so far as to agree with
them that it's not a pleasant thing, and remind them that they're not supposed
to like it, but that if they hadn't done <whatever>, they wouldn't be in
time-out.  Sort of like my mother telling me I asked to be disciplined when
I was a kid because I knew I wasn't supposed to do something, so doing it
meant I had asked to be punished.  

 re:
           <<< Note 517.19 by KAOFS::M_BARNEY "Formerly Ms.Fett" >>>
                           -< starting the timeouts >-

<    I think someone has mentioned this already, but when is  a good time to
<    start the "timeouts"? Charlotte is 14 months (today!) and she was the

     Our pedi recommends time out in the crib with no toys for this age.
        {I save timeouts for dangerous behavior for the wee ones.}

RochellE

    
    re:  .23
    
    I'm not a pedi (and I don't play one on TV)....however, I'm personally
    against associating the crib or bed with punishment....reading books,
    relaxing, and hugging, yes, but not punishment. 
    
    Your mileage may vary.
       

    re: .23, .24

    I agree - we purposely choose a neutral site (the den) for time-out.
    Punishing in their room or familiar "kid space" seemed counter
    productive (plus it makes my den, my den!).

    re: keeping a 1 and 1/2 year-old in time-out - at this age he usually
    was crying and very helpless - it was very hard not to comfort him, but
    the whole thing latest only one minute - we didn't do 1 minute 30 sec
    or anything, just went to two minutes when he was two.

    Course, he is a sensitive little guy - if we had had a kid who walked
    away from the site and time-outs weren't working we would have had to
    think of another method entirely - so I agree with another noter that
    said it depends on the kid. Marc doesn't like to be pulled out of the
    mainstream of household activity.
    
    So a sobbing, sorry little boy usually stayed where we put him for that
    one minute.

    broke my heart - but has paid off!

    JR
                                     

    I have a question, which is what I'm dealing with right now. 
    
    AJ is the perpetual chatterbox, and when he is in timeout, he
    constantly is calling to me, attempting to have dialog, or continuously
    asking if he can get out now.  I have made it clear to him that we DO
    NOT talk in time out, but the conversations, at least on his end,
    continue.
    
    Am I way off base, is conversation in time out allowed?  What do I do,?
    I do refuse to answer him while he is in time out, except a simple
    statement of "we don't talk in time out!"
    
    Lyn

	Monica,

	We starting giving Emily time-outs at just under 12 months (she's
	13.5 months now).  The first few times, she got something like
	5 warnings.  I finally told her, "if you do that one more time,
	you're going in a time-out."  She went right back, and I timed
	her our in her playpen for 1 minute (no toys).  Since then,
	my husband and I have used the time-out for those times when
	Emily just won't listen.  The other day, it was for trying to
	climb into the dishwasher repeatedly.  She got two warnings, and
	went in time-out the third try.  I told her the time-out was for
	both climbing in the dishwasher and for not listening when mommy 
	said no.  (She understands "no" and "don't touch" very well).

	At this age, I don't think one warning is sufficient, unless
	it's something she is well aware of.  I usually go with two
	warnings for now, and as she learns to understand a bit better,
	will reduce to one warning.  On her last warning, we always
	tell her, if you do that again, you'll have a time-out!
	The time-outs have been very effective in stopping the undesired 
	behavior, or in getting her to listen the next time.

	Karen  

    About getting them to sit.
    
    Depends on the child's age and condition.
    
    When my daughter (age 2 years, 10 months) gets really wound up, usually
    when she's overtired and maybe a touch sick, the timeouts don't work
    according to the book.  She jumps right out of the chair.  Lots of
    emotion.
    
    When she gets too wound up, I need to calm her down.  Whatever it
    takes.  Eat a bit.  Hold her in my lap and talk.  Go out for a walk. 
    Take a bath.  Let her cry by herself for awhile, then cuddle her.   
    Sometimes the only cure is getting her to sleep for the night.
    
    I'm trying to teach her to calm herself, but so far, the timeouts are
    not very effective under these circumstances.  IF she'll sit still, I
    talk to her while she's sitting, telling her to calm down and let go of
    that funny feeling inside her body.
    
    Personally, I don't like to use timeouts for little infractions in a
    toddler.  The type of bad behavior that calls for a timeout imho is
    usually aggresive - hitting, biting, scratching, pinching, pushing,
    grabbing.  
    
    I prefer to use distraction if the toddler is persistently doing other
    interesting things like climbing in the dishwasher.   I feel that it
    takes a long time to teach a child to obey Mom and Dad, and that
    timeouts are not the way to do this in a toddler.  Just repetition and
    consistency.
    
    If it is a genuine safety issue, like running into the street, my
    discipline is yelling.  The tone of my voice is sufficient to stop her
    and teach her that what she did was wrong.
    
    Laura

	Ok Laura, you can come over and distract Emily while
	I try to unload the dishwasher...

	:-) :-) :-)

    You've got a deal if YOU come over and get Ilona back to normal when
    she has a temper tantrum!  :-)
    
    Sounds like I've got the better end of this deal.
    
    Laura

	I spent some time thinking about this last night, and
	I disagree with Laura.

	I *do* agree that every little infraction should not lead to
	timeout, and that other methods should be exhausted first
	(ie. distraction), however, I do feel that simple disobediance
	can be sufficient reason for a timeout.

	For example, my daughter knows what "don't touch" means.  She will
	on occasion approach an off-limits item, and search around to
	see if you're watching.  If I say, "Emily" as a warning, she'll
	say "don't".  I then reply, "yes, you're right, we don't touch the
	fireplace tools" and generally, she toddles off.  However, there
	are those days when she merely wants to find out what happens if
	she touches it anyway.  Those are the times I feel it's important
	to follow up with some form of discipline, so that she learns cause
	and effect.  

	Karen

    Daniel , age 19 1/4 months had his first time-out last night.   It
    worked brilliantly.   
    
    
    Bernie

Samantha (2yr 3mon) had a time-out last night because of a lttle 'tiff' she had
with Anthony (4.5yr).  My wife told her she was in time-out so she walked with
her head down from the kitchen to the living room, took a throw pillow from the
couch, placed it on the floor and layed down on it.  Didn't say a word....:-)

Dave

    Natasha (23 months) had a time-out for hitting and bitting Daddy last
    night.  It was awful...........I put her on the couch, told her she was
    in time-out for hitting and bitting and she kept yelling NOOOOOOO NOOO
    (in her new sarcastic way) then would continue to try and stand up on
    the couch and jump on it.  If she wasn't trying to stand on the couch
    she was trying to get off the couch and out of time-out.  We also tried
    just a chair and the same thing happened.
    
    I know she's testing us........but after working all day and the heat..
    continuous NOOOOOOO NOOOOOO from her is real annoying.  And oh by the
    way if we try to change her pattern of NO by saying NOOOOOOO NOOOO to
    her she says YEEEEEEEESSSSSS YESSSSSSSSSS (real loud!!!)  I feel like
    sometime I'm not the adult ?!?!?
    
    She so darn cute...  I want to do right by her and not let her think
    she has her Mommy & Daddy as wrapped as she thinks we are.
    

    RE:  .34
    
    I'm sure it is scant consolation, but this sort of behavior is common
    in 2 year olds.  I was just commiserating at lunch today with a
    coworker.  Both of our kids have frequent tantrums around dinner time,
    especially when they haven't eaten yet.
    
    Just think, you've got the whole wonderful terrible twos ahead of you.
    ;-)
    
    Laura
    counting the days until she turns 3, though it might get worse I hear

    Time outs does help on think, but them in check to do so, in a
    constructive way. 
    
    	How old does "Time Outs" apply to? 
    
    	For pre-teens and begining teens (like from 11 to 16), is it still
        appropriate, a learning tool to use (pros/cons)?
    
        							~Richard~

    Time out is really a useful tool for preschoolers. Older children,
    especially teens, need to have boundaries that include consequences.
    Setting rules and defining the consequences for breaching those rules
    beforehand, and then abiding by the consequence when they're broken
    is the most useful, consistent form of discipline for older kids.
    

Timeout for a child is good for the parent too .. it gives the parent the
opportunity to simmer down and evaluate the situation a little easier!

Stuart

I agree with the points made by Lynn and Stuart.

One thing to remember about timeouts is that the nature and time of the 
timeout should be proportional to the age and experience of the child.  For a 
young toddler, a few minutes in a high chair may suffice, and for an older 
child, several minutes in a different room is appropriate.  Looked at from 
that perspective, the ever-dreaded "grounding" would be the teenage 
equivalent of a timeout.

And seizing on what Stuart said, there are benefits to "timeouts" for both 
parent and child, and there are benefits other than discipline, such as an 
opportunity to cool off.  We were never formal about timeouts, they kind of 
came about instinctively.  And now, when we have a conflict, our daughter is 
likely to go to her room, slam the door, and stay there for long periods of 
time.  Just as I may take a walk outside.

Clay

    
    Ditto on the double-usefulness of a time-out.  There have been a FEW
    times with my boys (they're still young), when they've been sent to
    their room (or wherever) until *I* cool off enough to deal with them.
    And it's usually accompanied by them Knowing.  "Look, I'm too mad to
    even LOOK at you right now - go in your room until I come to get you!"
    As I said, it hardly ever happens, but it sure gets the point across to
    them that whatever their "crime" of the moment was, it was worse than
    "usual".  
    
    As a teen, we never had any type of "rules" or "punishment", other than
    physical punishment.  It pretty much went something like ... one of us
    would misbehave.  Mom would find out, and flip her lid.  IF you were
    fast enough, you could take off and hide in your room till she cooled
    off (usually 4-5 hours).  If you weren't fast enough, or didn't happen
    to know she was mad at someone, you caught the full wrath of her anger
    (even if you weren't 'guilty'), which amounted to a LOT of screaming,
    belittling and smacking/backhands/swipes, or whatever made contact and
    pain.  I'd definitely have rather been sent to my room (no matter WHAT
    age!) and given her the opportunity to calm down - maybe we'd get along
    now.  
    
    I think it's okay to tell a kid that the time-out is for the ADULT
    (especially an older kid), as much as the child - it's also a way of
    showing the child how to deal with anger/frustration - that sometimes
    it's better to just "walk away" for a while, and come back and deal
    with it when people are more rational.  In this respect, it seems
    important that you emphasize that it WILL be dealt with later, after a
    cooling off period - as opposed to someone who just likes to walk away
    from problems/conflicts and never resolve them.
    
    

    
    There have been a few times, short on sleep, thetwo kids more "onrey"
    than usual that I"ve given *myself* a timeout!  
    
    "Mommy yelled when she shouldn't have. Yelling doesn't solve anything.
    Mommy's going to timeout for a few minutes."
    
    
    When either child is overly wrought, we call it a "chillout", not a
    timeout.  "Sophie needs to calm down, we're going to let her be by hersef
    for a few minutes..."
    
    It helps all of us chill out.
    
    * * * *
    My current dilemma is that my 18 month old has gotten so he likes
    timeouts!... or at least, he doesn't mind them.  His most consistent
    "crime" is to stand in his high chair.  He's taken one nosedive, but it
    didn't phase him.  I give him SEVERAL chance to sit down, then I try to
    make him sit, then I try a few more verbal warnings, then off
    to timeout.  ANy ideas that might work better??!!
    
    
    JAmd

      Hi,
    
      I don't know if I can't give you any advice on how to amke him sit,
    except that maybe it's time for a booster seat?
    
      When my middle child kept climbing out of his crib and I didn't know
    how I was going to keep him in any more I finally decided to put him
    in a bed and he loved it! Of course the thing that pushed me to it
    was when he fell out and got a hairline fracture in one of his legs
    and had to wear a cast for 6 weeks. He had just turned 2 years old.
    
       The not so funny part was that he tried on 2 occasions to climb
    out with the cast on. The first time he was screaming while he was
    hanging upside outside the crib. The second time he remembered after
    he tried to climb out about the first time hanging, so he tried to
    get back in and couldn't. Started screaming while he was on the
    bars not being able to get back in or out.
    
         Rose Marchand
    

    
    	Emily started the high chair thing at 10 months.  At that age,
    	I had no idea how I could discipline her to keep her from standing/
    	climbing.  We just used to repeat telling her to sit down and
    	would physically seat her after 2 warnings.  She basically
    	just quit doing it (for the most part).
    
    	This has resurfaced again in the last week.  She used to stand
    	even when she wasn't done eating.  Now she only does it when 
    	she's truly finished, and doesn't want to sit anymore.  We try
    	to get her to sit properly first, then we will let her get down.
    	(We feel that to take her out of the chair when she stands would
    	teach her that that's an acceptable way to "voice" her intentions).
    
    	When there have been times that we've needed to keep her in the
    	chair, if she refused to sit after 3 warnings, I've taken her chair
    	and placed it in the corner, then ignored her for 30 seconds.  I
    	only did this twice, on the same night, and never again.
    
    	RE: going to a booster seat
    
    	I have found that the few times we've used a booster seat, the 
    	temptation to climb, twist, lean over, etc. was greater than
    	when in the chair.  
    
    	Karen
    

	Timeout in our house can take different forms, depending on the 
	reason or what we're trying to accomplish with it.

	Andy's booster seat has a lap belt, which we almost never use.  But, 
	when he decides to get up and down from his seat the minute we sit 
	down to eat, the lap belt goes on to insure he stays at the table 
	at least long enough to discover his food.  

	If he's getting timeout because he's "sad" (having a screaming fit 
	because mom wants to cook dinner, instead of carry him around in 
	her arms), he sits in the guest room until he's "happy" (so far he 
	only understands two moods).

	If he's getting Timeout because he's going crazy (jumping off the 
	furniture, throwing toys, other typical 2-year-old stuff), then 
	usually he just gets timeout by sitting on mom or dad's lap for 
	a few minutes, to calm him down.
    
    	Peggy