Conference moira::parenting

    Kate,
    
    Charlotte is 20 months old now, and doing the same things as your
    daughter. I try to work around the getting-dressed problem by
    laying out two or three choices of clothing and hiding everything
    else. I let her pick the socks and shoes the same way. 
    
    The other thing I've been doing lately is bamboozling her with songs
    and fingerplay and games at times when tantrums are likely. During
    diaper changes I do "Old MacDonald" with lots of dramatic animal
    noises, and quiz her a lot: "What does a cow say?" etc.  Then I ask
    her, "Where's your tongue? Where's your eyebrow? Where's your elbow?"
    and she has yet to tire of this. She likes to do songs with hand
    motions, like "Wheels of the Bus" and pattycake and "Where is
    Thumbkin." She shouts out requests and I really ham it up. This can
    keep her from thinking about what clothes I'm stuffing her into during
    all the singing. Some of this has been helpful in the car lately too.
              
    Lucy
    

    We do the same things with Krystin (31 months).  She used to throw
    temper tantrums over the getting dressed/hair thing.  
    
    We used to play games like:  while putting on her shirt, say "uh, oh,
    where'd Krystin go?  Krystin, where are you?" and then when you pull it
    over her head, say, "There you are!  Were you hiding on me?"  Also you
    can do the same thing for the pants.  "Where's Krystin's toes?"
    
    As far as the hair goes, I would let Krystin put hair spray in my hair,
    then I would say, "Can mommy do that to you too?"  And then when we're
    done, I say, "Go show daddy how pretty you are".  
    
    Let your daughter "chose" the clothes and the barrettes.  It's the
    terrible twos and this too shall pass....
    
    Gail
    

    I've got this situation on a daily basis.  Ilona has been a clothes
    horse since she was 18 months old.  A "pretty dress" is her favorite
    clothing, preferably a floral summer dress.  She is very picky about
    her clothing, socks, and shoes.
    
    Some things I've tried, with varying amounts of success:
    
    * Let her dress herself.  Part of the struggle has to do with
    independence.  Of course she might just refuse to get dressed at all,
    even insisting on wearing last night's wet diaper.
    
    * Let her participate in selecting clothing.  Gets ridiculous when she
    wants a lightweight summer dress in January, or wants to wear a dress
    that's too big, or refuses to choose anytbing I select and flings both
    item A and item B across the room.  It helps to hide the out-of-season,
    wrong-size items.  Somewhat.
    
    * Hold off breakfast until after she is dressed.  This is necessary but
    not sufficient.
    
    * Don't do it all at once.  Delay putting on the shoes and brushing
    hair until after breakfast.
    
    * Introduce the element of speed.  Say "Hurry, fast, faster!" 
    Distracts her from the agony of dressing and gets her involved in doing
    it as fast as possible, rather than blocking the process.
    
    * As Monica said, distract  her with animated song.  Not my cup of tea
    at 7 a.m., but what the hey, it's better than another bite on the
    tushie!
    
    * Let her use the pretty summer dresses as nightgowns.  At least she
    gets to wear them SOME of the time, and I don't care if she insists on
    wearing the dress backwards so she can see the buttons.
    
    * On a weekend, try bribery - like a ride on the horse in front of the
    supermarket?
    
    * Pray for stamina.  If you can just survive the first hour of the day,
    you can make it the rest of the way.
    
    :-)
    
    Laura

    I have the same problems in the morning with my almost 4 year old.  My
    most common and easiest solution is to just dress him before he barely
    opens his eyes. (I have to wake him every morning).  
    
    Once he is awake he must always chose his clothes or we have a fight
    so I have learned to pick out two and we "make a deal".  He gets
    to chose one of the two once I pick out the two.  We also sing and
    play games.  He can dress himself but that takes too much time.
    We don't have that kind of time in the morning.  
    
    BTW, after having 3 children, now 22, 17 and almost 4, I don't 
    and never will again consider it the "terrible twos".  It is definitely
    the "terrific twos"!  Find ways to enjoy it cause it only gets worse!
    The so-called "terrible two's" are your little one saying, "I'm
    me and I am an individual".  "Please let me be me!"  If you think
    of it as them learning then it is a wonderful thing to watch.
    Patience is a virtue!  You will never regret using lots of it.
    
    Sorry for getting so speechy but let's just say I have learned
    the hard way!  When you have a 2 year old AND a 16 year old saying
    "NO!" at the same time you learn how to have FUN with the 2 year
    old!
    
    Stand back and count to 10 and bite your tongue!
    
    Nancy

    We went through this same stuff.  At the time, it made me wonder how
    anyone going through the terrible twos can get pregnant again!
    
    At first, I would shower while my husband gave her breakfast
    downstairs.  (We did this as a holdover from days when she wore more
    than she ate, and it would prevent having to change her again.)  Then I
    would chase her around the downstairs trying to dress her.  It was
    *very* frustrating.
    
    Finally, we decided to have set rules.  We leave the gate to the stairs
    up until she is ready to go downstairs for breakfast.  Ready means
    dressed, and hair braided.  She seems a little more motivated by
    breakfast, and now that she is older, wearing food is no longer a
    problem at all.  Some days, she does wear her jammies, but since we let
    her decide, that is rare.
    
    I thought this was one of the more frustrating aspects of parenting. 
    The stress over leaving on time was awful.  You have my sympathy!
    Even though it's really hard, try to let your child dress herself.  The
    more she practices, the better she'll get, and the sooner she'll get
    out of the terrible twos.
    
    judy

    Clothes changing and diaper changing are the most stressful part of my
    day.  It seems that I can handle the other types of tantrums or
    "terrible twos" but when my son gives me a hard time about getting him
    dressed, it just reduces me to complete dispair.  I don't know why.  I
    guess each parent has areas that really upset them and others which
    they can let roll off their backs.  
    
    In any case, I've found a slight improvement by doing 3 things.  
    (By the way, my son doesn't care WHAT he wears, so we don't argue
    about choices.  He just HATES to get changed.)
    
    1.  Dress him in a clean undershirt and shirt the night before.  
        Have him wear only the bottom of his pajamas, or his blanket
        sleeper over the shirt and undershirt.  The next morning, 
        the top half is "done" :^)  and I just have to change the
        diaper, pants, shoes, and socks.  
    
    2.  Do it bit by bit.  I change his diaper and pants first, then
        give him a play break while I go do something else, then 
        return for shoes and socks.  
    
    3.  Dress his teddy bear.  He is fascinated if I pretend to diaper
        and dress his teddy bear.  Then he loves it if we pretend that
        the bear is not being cooperative, so he can say "no no" to the
        bear, and then he "shows" the bear how he does it correctly. 
    
    With all this it is better but still frustrating.  I find it is worth
    it to get up a little earlier so I am not TOO frantic.
    
    Jane  

    As Nancy in .4 says, it really is the "terrific twos" in that
    they are pretty harmless at this age and it gets more complicated
    when they get older... I admit I am enjoying my daughter's 
    assertiveness and only go nuts when she starts screeching; that's 
    the one thing I hate. Generally I find her two-ishness very
    entertaining and her adventures are the subject of family discussion
    every day. 
    
    Lucy

. . . you can take her to in her nightwear, with the clothes for the day.  
The daycare provider can then do it, without any time pressure, and there 
will be peer pressure for her to get dressed.  In addition, if she doesn't 
cooperate, she will have to wear what you pick.

Clay 

    
    re. back a couple...
    
    I do the same thing with the t-shirt bit. Each night we put on a clean
    t-shirt or onesie underneath his pj's so that in the morning its one
    less thing to wrestle with. I too find it the easiest when I have to
    wake "him" up, that way I bring his morning bottle to the crib, wake
    him up, and we take it to the changing table to get dressed first
    thing. He is just bearly awake and much less of a struggle goes on. 
    Beleive me, it doesn't go smoothly every day, but it tends to work alot 
    of the time. Sometimes I feel guilty when I think about if someone did
    this to me (threw me into my clothes within 5 mins of my eyes opening)
    but he doesn't seem to mind much, and with my husband leaving much
    earlier than we do, it works out the easiest for us.
    
    I also put his clothes out the night before all ready to go. He's only
    17 mos so we havent' gotten into him wanting to "choose" yet.
    
    Chris
     

    Thanks for all of the sympathy.  I think I needed that almost as much
    as all the ideas here!
    
    Hollis is only 21 months, so we haven't gotten into the "let me choose"
    bit -- yet.  I just find myself thinking, for crying out loud, all I
    want you to do is get dressed without a fight.  Is that asking too
    much?  Apparently yes.  Anyway, I'm going to have to go back to
    dressing her on her changing table in her room.  This is a very recent
    development, by the way -- her not wanting to get dressed.  I think
    she's beginning to understand that when she gets dressed, she has to go
    out, and it means Mommy and Daddy are gone, too.
    
    

	I let my very independent 2.4 year old decide when she wants to
	get dressed.  I just say, "ok, you just let Mommy know when you
	are ready to get dressed" and then I pay her no attention and
	busy myself with making beds, picking up, getting ready myself.
	She usually comes around within a minute or two (amazing what they
	will do for attention - even get dressed!).  

	She also does not go downstairs for breakfast until all dressed, 
	teeth brushed and hair combed.

	I am also finding that the "twos" can be a lot of fun providing we
	take a little extra time, give her some control by allowing her to 
	make some of her own decisions and letting her do things her own way.  
	Another	key factor is making sure she is feeling ok.  Mixing a sick 
	child with being two can be disastrous.  When she is not feeling 
	well, nothing usually works so we pour on the TLC and muster up all 
	the patience we can while waiting for healthier days.

	Good luck!

	Deanna	

    re .10
    
    There were numerous times when Carrie found herself budled into a coat
    with her clothes in a bag and taken to Lorraines's.  it took care of
    the problem in a few weeks, and this way, my stress level was much
    lower.  
    
    Meg

       I play the "silly dad" game and start on the bottom and work 
       my way up. First, diapers are a sheer discipline thing and we 
       have always laid down the law that he must be still for 
       diapers. Once that is over he always thought the clothing 
       thing was free game and starting getting very wild. 
       
       "Silly dad" (or mom) is played as follows: Start with socks 
       and put them on his nose and say "the socks go on your nose?" 
       He'll pick up on this and say "no". Then work your way 
       down...ie
       
     o socks go on your ears?
     o socks go on your hands?
     o socks go on your knees?
       
       He will finally say "no socks go on my feet"
       
       Bang got him, hook line and sinker.....
       
       You may think this process will take forever (and it does the 
       first or second time) but you can run through it faster as 
       you go along and leave out parts...
       
       Then its "pants go on your head?"
                "shoes go on your nose?"
                "shirt on your legs?"
       
       Zach seems to feel a certain amount of control with this 
       process and likes it. My wife saw me do it once and 
       pronounced me crazy, but then she is long gone by the time I 
       have to do this every morning and it is the only way I could 
       cope with the lack of cooperation. I probably have the only 
       kid in the world that this works on but.......
       
       Bernie

    re. .13
    
    Boy, I wish I used that one a few years ago.  My almost 4 year
    old still gives me problems in the morning but he would get
    bored with the "silly Mom" game but I am certainly going to
    use it as much as I can.
    
    You are very right about the control thing.  If they make the
    decisions or at least feel like they are or feel they have most
    of the control they are happy.  Boy, what a great self-esteem
    booster for them too.  If we just had the patience tho to just
    sit back each time and think of these things.....(and were never
    tired!, right?!?!)  
    
    Thanks Bernie, great idea!
    
    Nancy

<       I probably have the only kid in the world that this works on but.......
       
No you don't, Bernie.  Evan (age 5) and I have been using a variation of that
one for years.  As a matter of fact, "silly" is a *frequently* used word in our
house.  We use it for when I am manipulating him (without him knowing it) like
in the game you described, and we also use it in places where other people
might say "weird".  Works great, and is not an insult.  We have lots of fun. 
:-) 

      Carol

    About being silly to get dressed or other tasks you want done but the
    kid doesn't, let me add another view.  This might work if you
    are the only care provider but I have discovered with my child that
    while Mom and Dad may have alot of patience , her other care providers
    (first my mother-in-law and for the last 1.5 years, day care) don't
    have the energy or time to play.
    
    We try to be as consistent as possible and there are just some
    things there is no negotitation about: getting dressed, sitting
    in her car seat, holding my hand in parking lots, eating [at least
    something] etc.  No bribery.  I'm the Mommy.  For us, there's a time
    a place for silliness and self-expression, but these aren't examples.
    
    Actually, by being consistent, I've found it's *less* of a hassle
    because she knows the things she can control and when she has to
    respect the rules.  It takes time, and lots of "because" explaining,
    but it's worth it, for me.
     
    

    I tried the "silly" stuff this morning, with no success.  She would
    have been happy to wear her turtleneck on her leg and her pants on her
    head.  She does that sort of thing on her own anyway and tries to get
    away with it.  She found it pleasant that I temporarily went along with
    her usual methods.
    
    At 39 degrees and snowing, going naked is not an option. (She got bent
    out of shape because I closed the patio door, even though she could
    feel it was too cold to go outside.) She thinks that if she just
    believes something strong enough (like that its warm enough to go out
    naked) it will be so.  
    
    Laura,
    
    who had an exceedingly aggravating and lengthy morning with Her Royal
    Crankiness.  These are times one is grateful for daycare. :-(

    re. .17:  THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I'm trying to follow a middle ground as best I can.  I agree in
    principle with trying to make it a game, make it fun, etc., etc.  At
    the same time, I've got to agree with much of what .16 says about "I'm
    the Mommy, that's why."  
    
    I guess the bottom line is, some things work with some kids, some
    things work with other kids, but NOTHING works with ALL kids!!!

    And below the bottom line,
    
      Nothing works all the time!

    I found that when it was a battle to get dressed in the morning, I let
    my child sleep in sweatpants/shirts that could then be worn to day
    care! They don't wrinkle when slept in, so your child is all dressed in
    the AM.  As for wearing their food, give them dry cheerioes and tidbits
    of banana or other fruit for breakfast.  It's finger food and not as
    messy as some other stuff.  Ditto for toast bits and scrambled eggs.
    
    Tots also like to dress themselves, and this can take foreever when you
    are trying to get out in the AM.  We used to let them pick out their
    clothes the night before, then get them up at least 15 minutes early so
    they can dress themselves at their own speed.  I also used to let my
    girls bring their clothes into my room, and they got dressed while I
    got myself ready.
    
    When I knew they were capable of dressing themselves
    (at least by 5 years), but were poking along, I threatened to take them
    to day care (or even  school, once) in their pjs.  It only took once or
    twice of their dressing while being driven to school to convince them
    that they had to get dressed when I told them to!
    
    As for terrible two's - it's only temporary!
    
    Kathleen
    

    Things are going a lot better the last couple of days.  On Saturday, I
    went through all of Ilona's clothing and removed items that are not
    warm enough for the season, those that are too big, and those that she
    refuses to ever wear.  This narrowed down her choices and reduced her
    upset at having clothes she doesn't like.
    
    I put her underwear, socks, and barettes in 1 drawer, her shirts and
    pants in another, and her knit dresses, sweaters, and nightgowns in
    another.  I think getting organized helped.
    
    I gave her warning before insisting that she get dressed, didn't give
    her breakfast until after getting dressed, and perhaps most important,
    let her pick her own clothes.  I did insist that she wear pants of some
    sort to keep warm, but let her pick which pants and shirt.
    
    I might wince at her selections, but at least she is dressed
    appropriately for the season.  Other kids at daycare may be better
    dressed, but heck, their children are probably less spirited.  They
    don't have to live with the turmoil of imposing their wills.  At least
    my daughter has strong opinions and knows her own mind.
    
    Laura

    I had entered this in the previous file but ....
    
    for years now, we've been getting the boys dressed for the next
    morning, the night before.  Sounds strange?  Think about it for a
    minute - these days, most kids wear sweats.  Sweats are pretty
    comfortable to sleep in.  They get bathed/changed into all new stuff
    the night before, and then when they wake up in the morning, it's eat,
    wash up quick and we're gone.  I've been known to get the 3 of us up
    and gone within 45 mins, and that includes making lunches and
    breakfast, and a shower for me.
    
    If they decide they want to change in the morning, I give them the
    clothes they'll wear, and that's it -they realize they don't have TIME
    to mess with it.
    
    Another thing that's helpful getting them motivated, is if they want to
    do something else in the a.m. (like color, or watch a little TV or a
    quick run on NINTENDO), they know they can't till they're READY to go.
    My boyfriend thinks I'm NUTS dressing them "the night before", but then
    he's never had to deal with dressing them in the morning! (-:
    
    

    I know this has been inactive for a while, but here's my twist on this
    problem...
    
    What do you do with your 6.5 year old son, who pleads with you "please
    mom, can you help me with....(sox, shirt, you fill in the blank).  
    
    I usually wake him up, and he sits on the toilet to poop for a few
    minutes, while he's sitting, I'm in his room finding his clothes for
    the day.  He almost always goes along with my choice, never has been a
    problem in that category.  At first I just found it quicker to assist
    him in dressing, now he just plain dawdles, sits on his bed half naked,
    playing with toys, until I either get my blood into a boil from yelling
    "GET DRESSED!" or just go help him get dressed, because that's just a
    lot quicker.  Then he gets breakfast.  Unfortunately, he doesn't really
    care whether or not he eats before leaving, so it's not a big threat to
    say get dressed or you'll not have time for breakfast.  A couple times
    I have packed cereal and and brought it over to the sitter's, he does
    like eating with her children, but I really feel he needs to get used
    to eating at home, and on a regular schedule.  I have also tried waking
    him 15 to 30 minutes early, and even then he's still running behind
    when it's time to leave.  
    
    What method do I try next??
    Lyn
    

                      <<< Note 490.23 by SALES::LTRIPP >>>
                         -< My 6.5 year old dawdles  >-

>    What method do I try next??
>    Lyn
    
Time for positive reenforcement here!!  With your son, make up a chart of 
the things he needs to do each morning and how long they ought to take.  Then
come up with a list of suitable rewards based on how well he does.  Then
execute!  You might be surprised how well this simple technique works.  You
have to put the discipline in it to check the chart each morning before you
leave and give him stars, stickers etc.  But it does work. 

    I had the same problem with my son when he was that age.  I
    still do occasionally and he's almost 9!
    
    What I did was to threaten to take him to the sitters in his
    pj's.  At first, he acted like he didn't care, so then I had
    to follow through.  After once or twice of showing up in his
    PJ's, in front of the other kids, he got the hint.
    
    I'm now having the problem with my daughter, almost 7, and
    she has always been good about getting herself dressed!
    
    Good luck!

    My son Robin sounds a lot like your son....mornings are
    definitely a hard time.  all transitions are hard, slow.

    We do two things...

    We have a general goal of having 'pizza party' each Friday,
    and to 'earn it', the kids have to be helpful in the morning.
    This includes all the various things that have to get done,
    dressing, eating breakfast qickly, washing faces, brushing
    teeth, etc. etc.  With their help (4 kids) we all can start
    our day pretty well.  If someone is not helpful, and it has
    to be pretty terrible, I'll take the other kids out for pizza
    and leave one behind with Mom (who hates pizza).  If they're
    all acting up, we'll all stay home.  The kids love going out
    for pizza!  We've only missed a pizza party a few times.

    Robin is our main dawdler....we used to have special
    'exercises' for him.  When he would take forever getting dressed,
    we would then have 'hurry up' exercises when he got home from
    school.  As soon as he was home, he would go up to his room,
    take off all his clothes, put on his PJs, get in bed, and tell
    us he was ready.  We would say 'GO', and he would then see how
    fast he could get up and dressed.  then he would do it again.
    It wasn't a real punishment...there was no anger.  We tried to
    make it a game, but a 'game' that he had to do.  Since now
    he was missing 'playing outside', he realized that dressing and
    undressing quickly was a good idea...and it has made a big
    difference.
    bob

    re the rewards:  I have instituted a "instant" sort of reward, as well
    as a lesson in cause and effect.  He knows that there is NO TV until
    all the morning things have been accomplished, including making his
    bed.  There is most morning where there very simply is NO time for TV. 
    Does it bother him, well only sometimes.
    
    Lyn

    
    On the chart idea, how young of an age can yu use that with?
    
    I have a 3.5 yr old and I'd like to start making a more concrete
    connection between effort and reward.
    
    I heard about using a" Hand"  - drawing a hand, each digit represents
    one "job", and filling up the digiat with stars.
    
    Any ideas?
    Jam

    I think that a 3.5 year old is certainly old enough for a chart - just
    remember to keep is simple, and try to use "pictures" to represent the
    work that you expect of them.  You can cut out a picture of a can of
    Pledge to mean dusting, or an animal eating to mean "feed the cat" or
    whatever.  They'll forget, and can't read to remind themselves ....
    
    Lyn, I would also suggest sending him "wherever he's going" in his pjs.
    Are you that adamant about having b.fast AFTER he's dressed?  Could
    b.fast be first, and then whatever he's wearing after the 73rd time you
    told him to get dressed, is what he wears??  If you expect a lot of
    squawking, you could BRING his clothes, but at 6.5, I would bet that
    once or twice in PJs would be enough to make him realize.  And I
    wouldn't be afraid to say to your sitter, in front of him, that he was
    being uncooperative, and you just didn't have time for his games (or
    whatever).  Of course you'll have to weigh that against if he WANTS to
    get changed at the sitters ....
    
    It's always something! (-:

    Um, about sending them in pjs?
    
    My daughter didn't want to get dressed one day recently, so I took her
    to school in her underpants.  No shoes, no clothes.  It didn't phase
    her one bit!  :-)
    
    The teacher dressed her when we arrived.  
    
    Oh well, as long as the weather's warm and the teacher doesn't mind...
    
    Laura
    

                       <<< Note 490.28 by DV780::DORO >>>
                          -< CHARTS FOR LITTLE ONES? >-

    
>    On the chart idea, how young of an age can yu use that with?
    
>    I have a 3.5 yr old and I'd like to start making a more concrete
>    connection between effort and reward.
    
>    I heard about using a" Hand"  - drawing a hand, each digit represents
>    one "job", and filling up the digiat with stars.
    
>    Any ideas?
>    Jam

We used it for toilet training, so I would say 3.5 is right there.  Just
make sure that you do this with them so that the rewards are what they want 
and the donwside is also what they think it should be (within reason).

    Samantha (almost 21 months) is sooo EMOTIONAL!  Okay mom is too
    sometimes so she probably gets that from me but I dont' know what to do
    with her sometimes.  One little thing sets her off and she can be
    hysterical for an hour.
    
    Example, this morning her daddy left for work before she got up.  He is
    usualy the one to get her out of bed in the morning.  So when she woke
    up I went into her room and of course she asked for 'Daddy'!  She
    didn't want to have anything to do with me getting her out of bed - and
    the morning was down hill from there - I try to talk to her, she just
    grabs my face and hair and pulls and pinches as hard as she can.  She
    wants to hurt too - 'cause once she gets a hold of your face and hair
    she stops crying and gets this really mad look on her face!
    
    I ended up having to bring her in the bathroom with me while I got ready and
    shut the door (trying to ignore her hitting my legs and screaming)
    because she was throwing things over the gate to the stairs and trying
    to climb over the gate.
    
    She didn't stop until we were about 1/2 way to the daycare EXCEPT for
    the 2-3 minutes she was on the phone with Daddy - I called him as a
    bribe for her to calm down.
    
    Bad morning...YES...I just feel bad because it seems like I can't do
    anything to calm her down - she gets madder when I ignore her - meaner
    when I try to talk to her....ETC!
    
    Is this the terrible TWO's????????????  Any ideas on what I can do to
    calm her down?  Singing, talking, putting her in the corner, her bed,
    holding her etc don't work...

    
    Jason had a few all-out temper tantrums when he was about 2, and there
    was NOTHING that anyone could do to calm him.  Is she just acting up,
    or does it seem that her anger has gotten the better of her?
    
    For Jason, it was just a matter of letting him cry it out.  He always
    specifically wanted either his father or I (usually me), but then when
    we went to him, he wanted NOTHING to do with us.  In the end, despite
    his protests, I would hold him tightly and rock him, him SCREAMING the
    whole time, until he got so tired he'd calm down.  We'd have a LONG
    talk about it afterwards.
    
    Seems to me that he was out of control of everything, and he was
    completely freaked out by it, which led to the tantrum.  From what I'd
    read, that's when mom/dad need to come in and just execute SOME form of
    control, no matter how much they try to resist.  It seemed to work for
    him, and his tantrums were very few (less than 5).  
    
    

    Welcome to the joys of parenting ;-).  I found at that age the change
    in routine usually set off major tantrums.  My son reacted better when
    forwarned about any upset of the routine (ie., tommorrow Daddy has to
    go out of town and won't be in when you get up).  Of course this can't
    be done all the time and I always used "time out" when the behavior got
    totally out of control.  "I understand you are upset but hitting is not
    acceptable" then you just have to ride out the storm.  Wonderful way to
    start the day, huh?  I'm getting ready to go through this with my
    little girl and I am not looking forward to it.

    My suggestion may backfire, but as I read this I wondered if one of the 
    methods we were taught in the ADHD parenting classes might work...
    
    Take your daughter, sit down and just hold her, with her hands down at
    her side ("pinned down" might be a crude description) and tell her that
    youare going to hold her and give her a BIG HUG, until she feels
    better.  I may work, but then again she may go on to kick you, and that
    does hurt!  she may try to swing her head around, be careful you don't
    end up with a fat lip or black eye.
    
    And maybe as a last resort, is it at all possible that either your
    husband could wake her as he is leaving, even if it is a little earlier
    than usual, or could call her when he gets to his destination.  Perhaps
    he could be the one who picks her up at the sitter's (daycare).  This
    was something that we have been doing, since my husband has classes at
    night, he may wake up our son, or make it a point to be theone to pick
    him up at daycare/sitters on his non school nights, sometimes "the
    boys" will stop on the way home for an ice cream as a treat.  You could
    try having dad tuck her in the night before, and reminding her that dad
    will be gone when she wakes up in the morning.
    
    In our house lately AJ (he's 6.5) will get up and seem anoyed that dad
    didn't wake him before he left for work.  We have sometimes told him
    that dad did infact say good bye, but since he was sleeping he just
    didn't remember dad doing it. (this is not a fib, he will usually peek
    in before he leaves, sometimes adjusting the blanket and wispering
    something to him.)
    
    Yup, it doesn sound like the beginnings of the terrible two's!
    Good luck
    Lyn

    Natasha's almost 2 and I've tried "the holding" many times.  I usually
    end up giving up after she's hurt me so bad (approx. 1/2 hour).  From
    my experience "the holding" doesn't work for us - it just seems to
    elevate my daughters anger which she takes out on me in the form of
    kicking, major hitting and screaming so loud that my ears ring for
    hours afterwards.  {I saw my parent this weekend and they looked at my
    bruised legs (from Natasha) and wondered what had happened}  What does
    work if I'm in a place where it can happen........I remove her from her
    current environment..........this works everytime.  Most of Natashas T.
    come from her frustration of not being able to do something - project
    wise, Mommy & Daddy insisting she get a diaper change or we take
    something she's got into.
    
    I want my loving child back.  I feel like my little person has a bad
    case of PMS. :-)  ........ she has horns too.....some days they're
    nubs and other days they're full blown horns   X:-)  X:-) X:-)  
    
    I don't have the problem with morining tantrums because Natasha like
    her Mother is a zombie in the morning.  She usually doesn't wake up
    until she gets to daycare.  I get the tantrums the moment I walk in the
    door at night..............it makes me feel sooooooo bad....especially 
    after a long work day.
    
    I guess there's no good time for a tantrum.
    
    From my experience Natasha needs for my husband and I to take turns
    getting her dressed, tubbed & put to bed, etc.  My husband was the one
    getting her down for bed for awhile and when I tried to put her down
    for a few nights she gave me a real hassle.  I found that if she can
    get used to both of us doing everything, she's less likely to get upset 
    at a sudden change.
    
    Even though this is a difficult time it's nice to know that we are not
    alone.  
    
    :-)
    
    
    

    
    My nanny taught me this for earlyage tantrums.
    
    When Sophie would get so upset she couldn't/wouldn't calm down, The
    nanny would put her in her crib for 1-3 minutes, telling her, "you need
    to calm down, I want you to calm down a little bit with some quiet
    time."
    
    Then, after language came, we would reinforce it with the message "fits
    don't work".  We ask her, before she gets completely woundup "What do
    we know?".. and prompt her for "fits don't work, do they".
    
    Usuallly works....
    
    
    Jamd

    I found a tactic that works (this week at least) for whininess that can
    lead up to a tantrum, when Ilona wants something she can't have.
    
    I tell her, "If you continue [whining, crying, yelling] [bathtime is
    over, you won't get any treat at all, I will take away the problem
    toy]."  I say this in a very firm tone of voice and I follow up on my
    word.
    
    Laura

    Well, my daughter has throwing "tantrums" during diaper time since she
    could roll over.  We hold her at her ankles and she starts to turn
    over, arch her back so that her butt is in the air.  Its impossible at
    times to change her diapier and get her dressed.  I can't understand
    why she gets so emotional to the point of sometimes screaming. 
    Somedays it takes the two of us to change her.
    
    We have tried everything, talking to her, singning, handing her toys,
    her bottle, trying to distract her, sometimes nothing works and she is 
    only 10 months old.
    
    Other than changing time, she is the happiest baby and rarely ever
    cries.
    
     

    Do you have a changing table?  I've found that if there's no place else
    to go, the kids tend to stay still a lot better.  
    
    There's still a lot to be said for quick fingers and diaper tape though
    (-;  Jonathan's just starting to really rather be doing something else.
    If I have time I break it into 'two' mini-sessions.  He's never peed
    without a diaper on, so I have it a little easier.  But, the first
    'session', I take the diaper off and get him clean.  Then I sit with
    him, and we play for a minute or two, and I get the diaper all lined up
    and ready to go.  Then flop him down on it, if necessary my forearm on
    his chest so he can't get up, slap the tapes on, and before he has time
    to squeel much, we're done.  Probably not as careful as it used to be,
    sometimes the diaper's pretty crooked, but he's cleaner and the
    furniture's safer, nonetheless.
    

    We have been having troubles on and off with our almost 4 year old son
    in terms of getting dressed in the morning.  It's not that he minds'
    getting dressed - he's just an absolute BEAR about what he wears.  Talk
    about being picky.  Use to be he only wanted sweats, now it's only
    jeans.  Now that spring is springing we are migrating to short sleeve
    shirts which he just hates - he wants long sleeves.  It's really
    ridiculous some mornings.  We've tried various methods (i.e., letting
    him pick out something the nite before, ignoring the tantrums, time
    outs, letting him wear whatever he wants, etc) but it's such a hassle.
    It's gotten so he only "likes" about 3 certain shirts and whines about
    everything else.  We've even gone so far as to pack away some of those
    he was CONTINUALLY picking to wear.  Any suggestions on how to make
    life a little easier?  BTW, it seems to be more than just a "phase" for
    him ... he's REALLY REALLY picky.  

    
    re .41 
    
    One easy way - just get him more of what he likes to wear. 
                                                               
    
    
    Eva

    .41
    
    I guess that's an option but the thing of it is is that he has a bureau
    and closet full of clothes with nothing wrong with them - I hate to buy
    more.

    
    RE: .41 
    
    My experience with this was at 2.5 years, not 4, but I do recall a
    period where Jason wore one of the 2 "bulldog" shirts he had 
    every other day.   I found it counterproductive to try to get
    him to wear something else; it only made him more firm in wanting
    to wear the bulldog shirts.   I guess I was fortunate in that he 
    didn't care what pants he wore 8^).   I ran the washing machine
    alot; he eventually outgrew this phase (or at least outgrew the
    bulldog shirts!).
    
    cj/   

    RE: .41
    
    Julie,
    
    I can sympathize with you.  Cassidy has always been very picky about
    her clothes.  If she doesn't like it she won't wear it.  I've pretty
    much given up and make sure that I take her shopping with me whenever
    I plan on getting her clothes.  She is much better about wearing things
    if she has picked them out.  Of course it makes it hard when she gets
    gifts but so far she hasn't said that she dislikes something in front
    of anyone.  She tells everyone though that only Auntie Kris can buy her
    clothes as a gift.  
    
    I'm hoping the mornings get better in September when she goes off to
    Kindergarten and has to wear a uniform.  There's only so many choices
    to argue about.  
    
    I'm not looking forward to when she's a teen-ager.
    
    The best bet is to just grin and bear it.  After a while it just was
    not worth the fights and both of us being miserable.
    
    Ginny

    
    re. 43
    
    >I guess that's an option but the thing of it is is that he has a
    >bureau and closet full of clothes with nothing wrong with them - I hate to
    >buy more.
    
    	I know what you mean, it drives you crazy. But, this is not, IMO,
    a battle worth fighting. To him, he doesn't have plenty because he
    doesn't like them. At 4, they don't understand the relatively grown-up
    concept of just-wear-what-is-there-because-mom-paid-for-them. Maybe
    you can bring him shopping with you and let him pick out his outfits.
    In the long run, the cost of a few more outfits is insignificant 
    compared to the unpleasant struggles he and you have to endure during
    the really, really short duration of childhood. 
    
    Eva

    
    I also want to clarify that, IMO, we should not look upon
    this as giving in, but rather an opportunity to let the kid
    have a little bit of control over his own world and let
    him know that it is ok to stand up for his preferences
    and you will support him. Clothing is a harmless subject
    to experiment on, IMO. It is rather true that the first
    5 years of a kid's life is an important time for
    to develop a healthy sense of self and a positive 
    experience with people ;-). Drive us crazy though ;-(
    
    
    Eva

    My Jessica is very picky about her clothes, so I just let her wear
    whatever she wants. If she wants to wear long sleeves on a warm day, I
    ask her to pick out something with short sleeves to take in her
    backpack just in case she wants to change later. And in the event that
    she refuses to pick out something for later, I always already have
    spares in her backpack anyhow so it doesn't matter.
    
    For times when she only wants to wear the same thing over and over,
    leaving it in the laundry and telling her that it's dirty and she can
    wear it tomorrow usually works.
    
    She's always been like this, but now that she's 4, at least she knows
    what matches what. There was a time when I didn't really have to
    announce that she had picked out her own clothes -- it was blatantly
    obvious by the incredible combinations she could devise.
    
    Cathy

    My son did this from 3 onward, and still does. Despite a closet full of
    clothes, I gradually bought those items he was comfortable with and
    willing to wear. It made life a bit easier in the morning.
    
    I remind myself to pick my battles....:-)
    

    My 4-year-old not only selects his clothes and dresses himself, he also
    tells *me* what to wear.  (generally does a pretty good job of it, too!)

    Both my kids have been selecting clothes and dressing themselves since
    they were 2.  They can pick anything that's clean (since I do their
    laundry 1-2 times a week, this means they wear at least 4 different
    shirts a week).  I put out-of-season clothes in a separate drawer, so
    it's not generally available for selecting, and they ask me "is it a good
    day for a short sleeve shirt?" when the weather is changeable (like
    this spring!).  My 4-year-old also tells me what his preschool teacher
    has instructed them to wear, and her rules are generally stricter than
    mine (at one point last fall, he said "No more shorts, Mom!", and a
    couple of weeks ago he said "No more winter coats - I need to wear my
    light jacket or a sweatshirt now.").

    What's important to my kids is generally not exactly what clothes they wear,
    but what color it is.  David had a yellow stage, and has now moved on to
    red.  Gregor loved purple for a long time, and still does, but his
    new favorite is green.  (Of course there is no overlap, because that
    would make using hand-me-downs too easy! :)
    
    We have very few problems with dressing.  Now, if anybody has figured
    out how to get clothes put into the laundry basket rather than all over
    the floor, I could use some help on that!  We have probably 35 socks
    scattered all over upstairs right now.

				cheryl

re: .50  Cheryl,   

>    We have very few problems with dressing.  Now, if anybody has figured
>    out how to get clothes put into the laundry basket rather than all over
>    the floor, I could use some help on that!  We have probably 35 socks
>    scattered all over upstairs right now.

   Clean or dirty?  Just wondering, as it might make a difference to the
   approach... :-)

   
   We've never had to try this, but here's a couple of ideas I've heard
   of... 
   
   Switch the routine to evenings instead of mornings.  That is, have
   them clean up, take baths, etc, then get dressed for the next day.
   That way, the decision is already made, and all you have to "discuss"
   in the morning is what they want to eat..
   
   Or, go in night clothes if they won't pick something acceptable... not
   sure if that would matter, but it might make a difference for some.
   
   fwiw,
   
   - Tom

    Why not put up a (plastic) basketball hoop in the bedroom and under
    it place a small laundry basket.  Maybe he'd like to toss his dirty
    clothes through the hoop and into the basket.
    
    Nancy

    >We have very few problems with dressing.  Now, if anybody has figured
    >out how to get clothes put into the laundry basket rather than all over
    >the floor, I could use some help on that!  We have probably 35 socks
    >scattered all over upstairs right now.
    
    Ahhhhh ... I got that one!  Since the older two *REFUSED* to put their
    dirty clothes where they belong, so I could bring them to the basement
    to wash, and I was sick of LOOKING for dirty laundry ... they got the
    whole job.  Now *THEY* have to bring ALL the dirty clothes down to the
    basement.  And if it's not down there, I refuse to wash it.  That
    doesn't mean that they're perfect about picking up their stuff, but now
    when I walk into their room, I can just say "These clothes are not
    going to get washed, sitting on the floor!", and they know just what's
    expected of them.  
    
    My feeling in these instances, is I'm asking them something SIMPLE, to
    make my "chores" easier.  If they're not willing to help me, then they
    can do it all themselves.  And I really have NOT washed the clothes, to
    the point where they DON'T have clothes for school ... to a 7 and 10
    year old, this is a BIG problem.  Actions and consequences ... they're
    getting it!
    
    One other thing that helped a LITTLE, was giving them their own laundry
    basket in their room ... which seemed to end up full of stuffed
    animals. ??  
    
    -patty

Patty,
    I've been using that technique, with mixed success.  They pick up enough
    clothes to have clean stuff to wear, but they "don't see" lots of
    the clothes that are driving me nuts by being all over the floor.
    The only solutions I've found for those are: nagging, picking them up
    myself, (sometimes) stickers as reward.

    They do have a laundry basket in each bedroom, but the clothes (especially
    socks!) are wherever they happened to take them off and/or where they
    were using them in games, etc.  Also, it's soooooo much fun to tip the
    baskets over when they are nearly full. (sigh)  So we frequently have
    a bunch of clothes on the floor *near* the laundry baskets (I guess that's
    a slight improvement over having them scattered all over the room).

re: the basketball hoop
    That would probably work for normal kids, but my 7-year-old hates sports.
    Anything that requires a ball is not enticing to him.  Now, if there
    was a similar approach that resembled a word search puzzle or maze...

						cheryl

    
    
    ..... well, I was saving this as a last resort .... I pay my kids 5
    cents a pair, for matching clean sox.  I *HATE* matching sox, so when I
    sort the clean laundry, all the sox go into 1 pile.  They sort through
    them, and then get a nickle for each match they make.  Sometimes I'll
    give them a dime, or if there's A LOT! of sox, I'll say "ok, it's a
    nickel for your first 10 matches and a dime for every one after that".
    
    Money's a big motivator in my family ... (-;  And I would **GLADLY**
    pay someone $20.00 to match all the sox, so the money I give them is
    no big deal ... just comes out of my "spare change" jar.
    
    You can't MAKE them do it ... you can make them WANT to do it. 
    Remember that! (-;

>    ..... well, I was saving this as a last resort .... I pay my kids 5
>    cents a pair, for matching clean sox.  I *HATE* matching sox, so when I
    
>    Money's a big motivator in my family ... (-; 

I've got 4 kids, some motivated by money, some not.

My daughter Anna (5) took all her savings (about $10) and bought a wonderful
stuffed animal that she had seen in a store and REALLY wanted...and on the
way home we were talking about how now her piggy bank would be empty.
She says "That's okay, this unicorn is more important than money"

and Molly (7) pipes up "NOTHING is more important than money!"

We put all of our clothes in a big laudry pile and once a week go though
them.  Really, only the kids know who's is who's....and they give away
clothes every week (here Anna, this is too small for me).  Sometimes Molly
will get up at 5:30 and sort all the clothes and carry the piles to
everyone's room....for about $.50...of course, someone's stuff might end
up in her pile!

All the kids have to lay out their clothes for the next day before they go
to bed...before story, right along with teeth, etc.  Then they just put
them on in the morning..no struggles.  At night they seem much more able
to quicly pick something out than the next morning.

    
    I'm looking for some advice.  The situation is this...Mark, who is a
    little over 3 years old has become very and I mean very attached to
    one particular pair of jeans.  He wants to wear them every day, winter,
    spring and summer alike.  So much so that if you even suggest that he
    wear a different pair of equally nice (at least to me) jeans, he
    becomes completely distraught.  Needless to say, there are distraught
    sessions on a regular basis since the favorite pair do need to get
    washed!    
    
    On the one hand, it seems the right thing to do to stand firm and 
    let him scream and get over it eventually.  It's of course tempting
    just to let him wear them every day and wash them when he's sleeping.
    I'm concerned that there is a bigger issue here - some insecurity that
    maybe I should be doing something about in some other way.
    
    Thoughts?
    
    -mary

	I haven't been through this (yet), but I'd say if it 
	doesn't matter if he wears jeans (ie, isn't going somewhere
	you'd rather he dress up for, or won't be too hot in his jeans),
	then I'd let him wear them and wash them at night, like you
	said.

	On days that you need him to wear something different, I'd
	stand firm.  

	My nephew went through a similar phase with a particular flannel
	shirt at about age 3.5 .

	Karen

    I went through that with my oldest daughter around the same age, 
    basically my husband and I decided to "pick our arguments", meaning
    it just wasn't worth the aggrevation in the morning with 2 working 
    parents, trying to get out on time, etc.  So we went with the flow,
    washed the favorite outfit if it was really dirty, sometimes frankly 
    I got real sick of that routine and just let her wear it dirty, hoping
    she would change her mind.  This went on for SIX MONTHS!!!!!! :)
    
    Eventually she changed.  At age 18 mos she absolutely refused to wear
    certain things, now at 4 1/2 she is quite particular about what she
    wears each day, I purchase 3 times as many clothes as she'll need for
    a new season, hang them around the room and let her pick what is kept,
    and return the rest.  I won't let her shop with me as her choices are
    quite different than anything I would ever pick or let her wear, this 
    way at least I can control what comes into the house.  She likes the
    ability to choose, perhaps control, I figure it isn't life-threatening,
    so we let her do it.
    
    Good luck, that 6 months with the same outfit (dress) was very long
    and drove me crazy.

    HA! My almost 7 yr. old is still like this, very particular in which
    clothese he likes, feels comfortable in, and will wear. So, I just buy
    3 of that item and that way if he wants to wear the same thing every
    day he can.
    
    I agree that it's "pick your argument" time. I also try to remind
    myself that my clothing likes are not necessarily the same as someone
    else, especially my sons!