Conference moira::parenting

    You have the reassurance of knowing that Chelsea is completely normal!
    :-)
    
    If it really starts to aggravate you, I recommend removing the knick
    knacks out of reach.  You can expect lots of repetitive tries for some
    time to come.  How many months, it's hard to say - at least 3.
    
    To teach my daughter about off-limits, I left a kitchen drawer without
    a baby latch.  This drawer contained towels and an apron, so it was
    perfectly safe for her to raid it.  
    
    I consistently told her NO and removed her hands from this drawer.  She
    did stop trying after awhile (several months?) but then at about 18
    months, she started to occasionally try again.  Oh well, she'll
    continue testing until she's 21 years old or gets bored.  :-)
    
    Laura

    Lori,
    
    Been there...did that...hated it.
    
    My wife and I started with NO as soon as Marc was crawling around and
    got into these situations. We agreed on a common approach and used it
    consistently. It was moving him away and offering something else or
    direct involvement with him till he forgot what he was doing. Then
    repeat, repeat, .....
    
    I think your doing exactly what you need to, and will just have
    continue to do it, till it sinks in (few more weeks to years) :-) .
    
    You could add a very quick reason - "these are my things", "these are
    not toys" or the like. Some would say it isn't meaningful to such a
    young child, but for me, I felt it was a habit that I wanted to start
    early and I still use the same reason today.
    
    Or, you could give up your table....but I'm with you, if the rest of
    the area is all set for her to play in, you can (and should) have
    something that is yours and that is off-limits.
    
    I don't have any suggestions on how not to keep from laughing. My
    five-year old continues to cause me to bite my lip (very hard, now).
    
    They are so funny!
    
    JR
          

    My son is 12 months and doing the same thing.  I figure it will happen
    on and off for years.
    
    I agree that sometimes it's hard not to laugh.  Sometimes Justin looks
    at me for a second, nodes his head from side to side (as if to say no)
    and goes directly for the object he knows he shouldn't.  Then he looks
    back at me as if to say (hey, aren't you going to chase me?)
    
    I think it's testing and learning.  Like how many times can I drop my
    toy to make someone pick it up for me. :-)
    
    Gail

    Kevin is 10 months old also, and loves to crawl for the stereo. It is
    low to the ground and isn't a great model, but we don't want him
    touching it. Well, he crawls as fast as he can towards it, and we run
    over to stand in his way. He'll crawl right by us as if to say "I
    wasn't going for the stereo." It's cute, but then we move him away.
    He is learning slowly. He'll stop and look at us when we say NO and
    then turn around and try for it again. You just have to keep trying.
    I usually sit in front of the stereo and he gets frustrated. 
    
    It's funny. He shakes his head too as if he is telling me no, and I
    thought it was only from his ear infection. But since someone else
    mentioned it here, maybe he did pick it up from us. I always thought
    it was funny that I would say NO and he would shake his head.
    
    Keep it up, we did with our oldest and it eventually worked for some
    things. I agree with the other noter that said that they give a reason
    also. We did that with our first, "NO, you'll get hurt", or so on.
    I prefer to give them a reason so they know that you aren't doing it
    to make them angry. 
    
    Take care!
    
    -Sheila
    

    We tried to be relatively careful about not always using the word
    NO.  We used assorted ways of saying no, so that way when we used the
    word NO it had a more powerful impact.  We also tried substituting
    positive things for something we didn't want the kids doing.  Sometimes
    we didn't use words more than once ... but used the action of removing
    the child and frowning.  Actions sometimes speak a lot louder than
    words!
    
    Stuart

	Lori, 

	I have to laugh.  Emily's favorite "no" is our dog Sadie's
	toy, which is usually 6 inches from Sadie's face.  Yesterday,
	as Emily and I were playing in the living room, she walked
	over to Sadie and tried to pick up the toy.  I said, "Emily,
	that's Sadie's toy, come see Mommy."  She looked at me, looked
	at the toy, and went to pick it up.  I walked over, picked her up,
	and brought her back to the other side of the room.  She promptly
	took off for Sadie again.  On the third try, when I picked her up,
	she laughed so loud she woke her napping daddy up.  I didn't even
	know it was a game before that.

	So, what do we do ?  I usually say "no, no" for smaller, don't touch
	things, and save a firm, louder "no" for serious things.  Often,
	I say what it is she's not allowed to touch, like "no cords, Emily"
	when she goes for the cord to the TV.  I've tried removing her
	hand from things, that's just another game, so I'll pick her up,
	move her at least 5 feet from the object, and say "don't touch"
	or whatever is appropriate at the time.  It's usually effective
	for at least 30 seconds!

	Karen

We also avoid the word "No".  We save it for unsafe situations, so it has
a very strong impact.  Our tactic is more of "You may not play with that, but
you may play with *this*".   (Expect some tantrums when first using this tactic.
 New toddlers don't do frustration very well).

We also "baby-proofed" everything but one table, knowing full well we would
be tested over and over and over and over whether it is *still* off limits.
While it's an incredible pain, it's very much worth it in the long run.

Pat

    My mother is a strong proponent of "NO" instead of putting EVERYTHING
    out of reach. She said that this makes sure that the child will 
    learn that there are things they may not touch even if they are
    out of the home situation. She said she had good success with it.
    
    I looked at our house and realized there is NO WAY we can COMPLETELY
    child proof that place. We always make sure that we are in the room 
    when Charlotte is cruising around and try to remain consistent with
    what we do not let her touch (the floor lamp cord, the TV, etc.
    
    This morning she was practicing her newest trick of cruising around to
    the other side of the end table. She started tapping on the picture
    frame on it, and I gave my "NO" in the tone we use. She did it again,
    and again "NO" finally (and probably accidentally) she grabbed it and
    it fell to the floor with a loud bang. She got a very curt "NO" and
    I put her in the playpen. This is really the first time I decided to 
    enforce my No's. The sitter tells me that that's the place she goes
    during the day too, when she's disobeying a NO.
    I think she's getting the picture.
    And yes, it is exhausting to say all the time. 8-) (and not laugh!)
    
    Monica

I also believe in the "no" theory for the most part. There are some things I
put aside simply because I fear the repurcussions of accidents more than what
the child might learn from being told no. 

I do have a rather funny story. When my oldest (my God he just turned 14!) was
about 2 or 3 both my wife and I were smokers. We would often leave our cigarettes
on low table tops around the house. Whenever Scott would venture to reach for
the packs my wife or I would often simply say "forget it" and remove him or the
cigarettes from the scene.

One day we were having dinner with some friends. Scott had toddled over to the
coffee table and picked up my pack of cigarettes. He took them to my friend
and presented them to him saying "Here - Daddy's forget its".

    It's started at our house, too.  I believe in the "no" theory but
    instead of just saying, "no", I try to offer explanation (haha) with
    it.  I'm forever saying, "No, that's dirty", or "No, that's mommy's,
    this is Sarah's".  We've put away the really delicate things and tried
    to babyproof as much as possible, but she still finds tons of things to
    get into.
    
    This weekend was a real workout.  My husband took advantage of us being
    snowbound to do his homework so I was the parent du jour.  It's amazing
    how fast she cralks (crawls and walks) I was constantly running here
    and there to retrieve her.  No rest for the weary, but I wouldn't have
    it any other way.
    
    It's certainly an adventure.
    
    Susan

    Great responses...makes me feel like I'm not out of the norm...or I
    should say Chelsea isn't!!
    
    This weekend was quite a workout with the TABLE...she actually fell
    head first on to the oak side, when attempting her 20th race back to
    crawl up it.....huge screams and Mommy tried to explain that this is
    why we don't stand up on this table...I'm sure she got the picture...
    NOT!  Only minutes later and she was racing back towards it.
    
    I tried a new tactic...not sure if its right or gonna work, but I did
    get a response which was not happening.  After about ten times of
    just sitting her down and saying "No No...or Chelsea get down", another
    10 times of distraction routing....when she would race up to it I would
    set her down and say No No...I would make her sit still (all of about
    15 seconds which probably seemed an eternity to her) and repeat the
    No No message and why....all the time making her sit still.  Well you
    can pretty much guess what the restraining method did for her...major
    tantrum and crying...but instead of crawling back to the table, she
    crawled away from it...and her crying and rage stopped the minute I
    let her go.  No sure if this is the right way to go, but it seemed
    worth a try when the other two methods wern't working to well...I'm
    sure consistency is the bottom line in all of this and not giving up
    on the followthru, even if it takes many many years!!
    
    ...Lori

    
    Lori, your reply reminded me of something...  When Michael (now 17 mos)
    started crawling/cruising the furniture, we moved the coffee table from 
    the center of the room in front of the couch to a side wall for awhile.
    (actually, its still there!) It just seemed easier at that age (9 mos+)
    than to have to constantly be on "full alert" everytime he was near it,
    afraid he would fall and bump his head on the hard oak wood (and
    corners!).  They are just so clumsy at that age (and still are!)  At
    least against the wall he only had 2 corners to hit, and it wasn't
    right in the middle of the room being an obstacle to constantly be in
    the way.
    
    Just an idea...
    
    Chris
    

    
    I guess I probably have 3 versions of "NO". In the first case I
    actually don't use the word, but say things like, "why don't you
    leave that alone and come (play with this, help mommy, etc). The
    second case is a frim NO, you don't do that, or I've told you not
    to play with that, etc and is followed by a timeout. The third case
    is the panic NO!!!! Like when she was standing on a chair leaning
    on a lamp. Luckily those types of no's are few and far between.
    Though there are days when I feel like I'm constantly telling her
    no and putting her in timeout (Anna is 22 months) I feel it is
    working. She's even gotten to the point that while she's in
    timeout she keeps repeating to herself why she's there. For instance
    her newest trick is to stand on a chair at the kitchen counter (which
    is fine) to watch me, but then she'll start [pick one: dumping salt,
    climbing on counter/table, reaching for knifes, etc]. She did it
    twice in a row (timeouts for each) on Saturday, and then only once
    on Sunday. I think the No + explanation is working. We'll see how
    long it lasts.
    
    Patty

    Re:12
    
    Chris...
    
    We moved the large rectangle oak coffee table down to the garage...it
    compliments all the junk down there!!
    
    This is my corner oak table and I have a few knick knacks in the very
    corner of it and its the only thing in the living room which is off
    limits.
    
    Thanks..
    
    Lori

    We basically removed anything unsafe, or that we cared about from the
    area she played in.  (When Gina was about 2 1/2, I put things back to
    make the living room more adult-like.)
    
    Like Pat said, we try to save No for unsafe situations.  We even let
    her use the stereo and put her casettes in (with supervision).  She is
    very careful with things and doesn't mistreat them.  If we have other
    children who aren't that careful, then we would not allow this.
    
    judy

    Boy, I certainly can relate to Lori's questions.  We have a 16 month
    old that has been walking since he was 10 months -- his energy level
    hasn't dropped since then!!  I really don't want to take away from
    Lori's questioning but I have the same problem with Phillip.  I really
    don't know what to do any more ..... he is afraid of nothing; of
    standing on top of the couch, of unplugging and plugging in cords into
    outlets, of standing up in his high chair, of jumping into the tub
    while someone is in the shower.  Next, I'm expecting to see him climb
    out of his crib.  In fact, the daycare took him out of crib and put him
    onto a mat because he was trying to climb out of that crib.
    
    No just doesn't work -- he just laughs.  Threats don't work.  I started
    saying things like, "Phillip's going to get boo-boo's when he stands up
    in his chair -- he better sit down!"  This sort of comment brings on
    more laughing by Master Phillip.  He has hurt himself several times by
    his expeditions but he still runs back for more.  The only way to keep
    him from playing with the stereo and TVs is by telling him that its
    "hot, ooooohhh, hot".  That seemed to work but the standing on top of
    things has me a nervous wreck!
    
    Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
    
    Moderator:  please move this if I shouldn't be corresponding in this
    part of the conference.  Thanks!!
    
    Lisa in N.C.
    

    
    Nicholas just turned 1 and is 'cruising'.  He has been for a while
    and looks like he's going to take his sweet time learning how to
    walk.
    
    Nicholas knows what "no" means but doesn't care.  He's a very
    determined baby and gets very frustrated easily.  If I
    say "no"  he'll stop for a minute and go back and then I'll
    say "no" again and then the whole process starts up again.
    It's a little game he plays until I take him away from it
    and he throws a fit (got my husband's temper too :)).
    
    Right now, he is fascinated with flushing the toilet
    and this is a 'no' since living in Litchfield, NH, the
    water costs a small fortune!

I have to agree with Stuart and Pat and the other noters who recomend limiting
"No's".  Unlike learning to speak and learning to read, learning to obey the
command "No" is more effective when the word is used very sparingly (in my
opinion).  There will be plenty of opportunity for you to tell your child
"No" without inventing tests for them or leaving around known instigations.

To the basenoter - this has definitely turned into a game.  As long as that
table is there, the oportunity to play the game exists.  I don't think this is
the type of game you want to be playing right now.  Get rid of the table.

For what it's worth - I can see leaving some tempting but forbidden object
in reach if the child generally responds correctly to "No".  If the child
is willing to live within the limits you set - then this type of approach
could serve to reinforce good behavior (obeying the command "No").  But if
the child is consistently disregarding your command - the child is only
learning how much fun it can be to test limits.

- Carol

    I've always found saying "no" to be too stressful for me -- I feel
    like a cop following the kid around. We got rid of our coffee table
    when our first was learning to stand as it was both a temptation and
    a hazard. Breakable and dangerous stuff went into high closed 
    cabinets. A few things just have to be dealt with (like the stereo,
    TV, kitchen) and I tried to use distraction or non-verbal language
    as much as possible in order to save "no" for when I really needed 
    it. Both kids have gone through lots of testing phases but fortunately
    neither has pushed the limits to the extreme.
    
    Lucy    

Our success was probably more to do with luck and our child than with knowing
the right answers; but with Elspeth, we reserved "NO" for things that were
"absolutely, positively stop right now!".  In fact, I think that just about
the only "NO"s when she was a year or so old were electrical cords, hot stoves,
and going towards the road.  Everything else we dealt with through avoidance,
distraction, or gentler discouragement.

The result was that using NO would almost always reduce her to tears, which was
the way we wanted it.  We felt as though, by not overusing it, we had something 
which would always be effective when we needed it.

	-Neil

With my 22-month-old twins, time-outs seem to work, though it takes a while 
for the kids to figure out that we really mean they can't do something 
before they actually stop.  When they were around a year old, we tried 
'don't touch that' with limited success. Then we would try the distraction 
route and if all else failed they would be timed-out in the porta-cribs 
which they were no longer being used for their naps.  We had to do that 
as they didn't really understand the concept of time-outs yet.  I found
that it started teaching them what time-out was for, and now that they are
older and do time-outs in the chair, they know why. And at this age, I also
am finding that I can say to them 'do you want time out? don't do <whatever>"
and they will usually stop doing it, so they are starting to understand
more.

We do, however, have a problem that we're still working on which .16 reminded
me of.  We use a wood stove for heating, and naturally the kids aren't allowed
near it.  We usually say 'hot, hot, don't touch', but Brad has figured out
that Mom and Dad can touch it when we were the gloves, so now he puts the 
gloves on, runs up to the stove (fortunately when it's not running) and
says 'hot, hot' while he touches it with the gloves.  Does the same thing
with the oven mitts when I'm cooking.  It's hard not to laugh when I tell
him he can't do that. Oh well, at least he  knows it's hot.

    
    
    My 18 month old is the same.  He just laughs at me when
    I ask him not to touch something and then slowly the
    little hand reaches over to the object and almost touches
    it.  Then he pulls his hand away real quick and repeats
    the process without loosing eye contact with me.   He
    knows what "No" means, but I think he receives quite
    alot of pleasure out of bugging his mother.   Also, this
    is how they test their limitations with how much they can
    get away with.    
    
    One thing that works real well if he won't let go of something
    (like my hair) is to tickle his armpit.  That works real fast.
    
    
    Jeanne
    
     

    Re -.16.  I'm not sure it's such a good idea to say "Hot" to keep
    your child away from things like the TV.  When he does touch it and
    feels its temperature (which may be cool or only a little warm), he
    will learn that "hot" really doesn't hurt.  Then, when you really
    need to stop him from touching something truly hot and dangerous, 
    he won't believe that it could really hurt him.  
    
    Jane
    

.23 brings up a good point. It's really interesting to me that Brad only
goes near the woodstove (with gloves on) when there's no fire in it. When
it's on, neither child goes near it, and I think it's because they can feel
the heat and relate that to Mom and Dad saying "hot". Also, even when I
open the oven to take out dinner to turn it or when it's cooked (I never
turn my dinner in the oven with the door open; I take the pan out and
put it on the counter), the kids like to stand there and watch me, sometimes
a lot closer than I am comfortable with, but I tell them it's hot and they
don't touch.  I'm pretty sure they've got the concept down. I agree not
to use that designation for things not in that category.

I'm even finding it difficult to explain why they can't touch the cooktop
when I've got a pan on there and I think it's because they can feel the
oven and woodstove radiating heat, but not the top of the stove, so they're
testing to see if it's really hot.  I don't tolerate little hands going 
up to touch the cooktop knobs, or pans on top of it, or even things on 
the counter.  That calls for immediate time-out, but they know the rules,
and I have to be consistent.

Cathy

    One thing I noticed is that when Hollis (21 months, almost) is getting
    into stuff, it means she wants me to play with her for awhile.  Rather
    than repeating myself over and over again, I try to take the time to
    play with her, tickle her, cuddle her.  This sort of stops the chain
    reaction -- baby goes toward forbidden object, Mama says no, removes
    baby, baby returns to F.O., Mama says no....  Anyway, you may want to
    try this.  This requires patience, of course, and you obviously won't
    always have it.
    
    My kids used to love to open the drawers of our nightstand (off
    limits!).  I used to close the drawer, take them away from the
    nightstand and say, "Please leave my things alone.  Please respect my
    privacy"  in a stern tone of voice.  For some reason, that almost
    always got through to them.
    
    There is no known cure for this....but I agree, you can't say "no,
    don't, stop," all the time or the kids will develop mother-deafness and
    won't hear ANYTHING you say!

    Re:18
    
    I don't agree with getting rid of the table.  As I said in an earlier
    note we did move the long rectangle oak coffee table down to the
    garage.  This is a smaller one in the corner adjacent to the oak
    entertainment center.  Since the entertainment center has 6 lower
    cubes, we have stacked all her toys in them for her play pleasure..
    she stands on the entertainment center and we montior close to try
    and help prevent falls...but if we didn't have the entertainment
    center customed to her toy needs..does that mean I should get rid
    of that too?  Are you suppose to remove all furniture in your house
    that might pose a accident problem when they explore their standing
    skills...I think not.  
    
    We babyproofed and I feel we did a great job.  We moved away 95% of
    breakables and knicknacks that were within reach, but in my opinion
    Chelsea has to learn that somethings are going to be off limits and
    it doesn't mean that it has to be the obvious plugs or stove.  I
    wouldn't want her standing against the bathtub and possible falling
    and cracking open her chin or going deep sea diving in the toilet, 
    (when the time comes that she figures out how to lift the lid...which
    I am sure is when we will purchase a latch!)
    
    Sure she is testing me...but I think the important thing here is
    consistency and followthru...if I give in, its going to leave her
    feeling confused....as for now, even last night (whether it was just
    a good night) showed signs of her understanding that the table was
    off limits.  I'm sure it will take more time then I would like, but
    its worth it and I think it sets a good solid ground for learning
    whats hers to touch and whats not.
    
    ..Lori

    Lori, I found a lot to agree with in your note, in that yes, your child
    doesn't have to run your life -- and you do have a right to have some
    things the way *you* want them even if she finds them tempting. And I
    agree with your consistency philosophy too.
    
    This has been a hard area of parenting for me: balancing the need to
    have some adult stuff/time/whatever (in spite of the kids' resistence) 
    against the desire to have peace, etc. I'm still working on this one.
    
    Lucy 

    Without reading all the replies, excuse if this is a repeat.
    
    We don't say NO unless we have to - as early as 8-9 months we would say
    "NOT TO TOUCH" if we didn't want either of the boys to touch something,
    and then move them away to something they were allowed to touch.
    
    
    

Since this topic started, I remembered more of what it was like when Elise first
hit "toddlerness".  The daycare head teacher showed me a technique for handling
"no-no situations" which works pretty well.  For example, let's say Elise keeps
standing on her rocking chair.

The first time she stands on her rocking chair, I tell her she must get down and
put her feet safely on the floor.  If she doesn't move, I ask her if she can do
it herself or does she need my help.  (This, BTW, is a great thorn in a
toddler's side. She can do *everything* herself).  Then either she gets down, or
I "help" her. And then, I help her find something to play with.

The second time, I tell her it is not safe to stand on the rocking chair, help
her get down (without asking), and tell her that if she cannot sit on the
rocking chair safely, I will have to remove it until she can.  Then I help her
find something to play with.  (Can be the rocking chair).

The third time, I tell her that she has shown me she cannot be safe with the
rocking chair and I will need to remove it until she can sit on it safely.  Then
I remove the rocking chair (to another room is good enough).  At this point, she
sometimes cries and throws herself to the floor.  I tell her I'm sorry she's
upset, but I cannot let her climb on the chair, it is not safe.  Most of the
time, I sit on the floor next to her or hold her until she's done being upset,
then we find something else to play with.

It is quite rare to get to step 3 these days, usually days to weeks apart.

This tactic works very well, because there is a very logical progression from
letting her resolve the problem, to resolving it for her.  There is definite
cause and effect; there's no doubt why the chair was removed.  Even before she
really understood my words, she understood my actions. (Notice there can't be
much time between each instance, only a few minutes, or she won't realize they
are connected).  And, you don't have to get rid of the thing forever.  Usually
we put back whatever it was after bedtime so it's back in its usual place the
next day.

What I really like is that the circumstances are under her control.  It only
took a few times for her to realize what the pattern was and that if she
continued, she would lose the item.  (Note:  I'm really big on independance, and
letting Elise have control over her life.  I constantly watch for techniques
that encourage her independance and self-control).

This is harder when you're talking about a nightstand drawer, since you can't
just remove the nightstand.  But you can "remove" the nightstand by removing the
kid to another room.  (OK, so you were in the bedroom putting away the laundry. 
It'll have to wait.)

Sorry about the long winded reply, but it was a life-saver when the teacher
showed me how to do this.  Within days Elise was much easier because the limits
had been clearly defined, altho she has never stopped testing.  I'm still not
sure whether clearly defining the limits helped *her*, or helped *me*.

Pat

	What to Expect the First Year covers this topic in the 
	Tenth Month.  Quite timely, huh Lori ?

	Karen

	PS - it's got some good stuff, too!

    I have 23 month old. We try and give him time outs when we have
    repeated no the second time. The other day he just laughed at us like
    it was a game. So we ended up putting him in another room where we were
    not and that seemed to work. 
    
    It can be a challenge.

    We used the phrase "I don't think so" said in a very slow drawn out way
    for things like touching things on shelves etc.  NO! was reserved and
    meant STOP in YOUR TRACKS!  We would also try an occational UH-OH as a
    sort of warning that what he was doing was going to lead to trouble.
    
    NO  it doesn't get any better as they get older......!!
    

    
    Why do people have a problem saying NO. If I mean no I say no, to me,
    "I don't think so" means maybe. I would rather not send mixed messages.
    
    Lyn, this isn't directed at you, I've just heard this before and can't
    understand why people mince words. I do explain to the child why I said 
    no.

    I think the idea is to keep the NO! for a serious faux-pas, so that 
    the child has an idea that on the occasion you use it, they could risk
    serious consequences if they continue with their intended action. 
    We've mostly stuck with "NO" but are using other phrases now too, now
    that Charlotte is learning to understand negatives.
    
    Monica

    
    
    Boy am I glad that I read this stream. I was starting to think of
    myself as a pretty inadequate mother when it comes to the NO
    department.
    
    Like some others have mentioned, Chloe thinks that NO is the best game
    going. This morning, she was touching the electric socket in the wall
    again. Although it has one of those plastic child-proofing plugs in, I
    don't want her playing with it for obvious reasons. I finally tried
    another tactic. I just looked really bored and said "well, I don't
    think this is very clever. Why don't you come to Mommy instead and
    we'll look at a book", and I turned my back on her (that was the hard
    part because I wanted to see her reaction). Sure enough it worked,
    within 2 seconds she was next to me.
    
    Now I don't know if this is going to work every time, but I figure it
    is an alternative to the endless 'no's. Has anyone experimented with this
    technique, and if so, have you had good results? Any drawbacks?
    
    Patricia.

Indifference works well for my daughter when she's doing something she
knows is wrong just to get attention.  If she doesn't get the attention
she wants, she stops doing it. That sounds like your description of the
'no' game with your daughter.  When Jessica does something I don't want
her to do and she's not toying with me trying to get attention, I tell
her 'no' and that's usually enough to get her to stop.

It should be so easy with her twin brother!

    I am trying the indifference method with the stove. Charlotte has
    discovered that banging on the side of the stove with her hands, feet,
    tupperware, etc, makes quite an interesting loud hollow sound. She'll
    do this quite often and does not seem to react to the indifference
    method; this is too entertaining. (Reason of course, is although she
    is not allowed in the kitchen while cooking is going on, if something's
    been in the oven for a while the whole stove DOES get hot.)
    
    I guess I am going to have to wait until banging is not fun anymore...
    
    Monica

I think an important thing to recognize is that no single method works all 
the time.  If the forbidden behavior is done to get attention, then 
indifference works, because the consequence of the misbehavior does got get 
the desired result.  If the forbidden behavior is because the child ENJOYS 
doing it for its own sake, then they will continue doing it until stopped, or 
until is ceases to be interesting, or until something more interesting comes 
along.  Distraction may work in either case; in the first case, because it is 
attention, but in the latter, it must be something more interesting than the 
forbidden behavior.  I found that as the kids grew older, there was more of 
the latter, that is bad (in my opinion) behavior because they wanted to do 
it.

Clay 

    My favorite phrase stolen from a friend, great for older kids like
    elementary age and up to teens...
    
    Which part of NO didn't you understand??
    
    Oh and I got "caught" by a coworker the other day, as I announced
    	Not so fast buckaroo!  (translated as NO, or Don't even think it!)
    
    The coworker asked me if I had been watching too much Happy Days on TV?
    So is this where I stole that phrase from?
    
    Lyn