Conference moira::parenting

    
    
    Jane,
    
    	I don't know what to say except I'm so very sorry.  I can not
    imagine how you feel.  But I can understand from the point that I
    also had a miscarriage 10 months ago, and some of the things people
    said to me then hurt a great deal.  Again I'm so sorry for you lose.
    
    
    Lisa

    Jane, I have just had my second child and never have gone through any
    thing like this. But I feel sooo much for you. I think I also would not
    have been in any kind of hurry to end that connection. There is a
    certain amount of mourning that I am sure you started with as soon as
    you saw no heart beat on that screen. 
    
    Best wishes to you, I know you have some feelings to sort through
    before thinking about going into pregnancy again. 
    
    That first misscarriage and this happening were your 2nd and 3rd
    children no matter how old they were and that is a hard thing to 
    loose.
    
    Charlene

    
    I do know of someone that this happened to - in fact just recently.
    She is not a Digital employee, but she too, went for her 13 week visit
    as normally scheduled, and when they couldn't find the heartbeat.  They
    had her scheduled for an ultrasound that same day and they still could
    find no heartbeat.  A D&C was scheduled for the end of the week.
    
    It's devastating no matter who goes through it, but it was especially
    difficult for her because she has been trying to conceive for many
    years and this pregnancy was accomplished through invitro
    fertilization.  She figured if she could make it through this visit
    marking the start of the second trimester, everything would most likely
    be fine.  She already had a miscarriage at 11 weeks and a tubal
    pregnancy.
    
    I can't even begin to imagine your pain...
    
    Best wishes to you and your family during this difficult time,
    
    Sue
    

    Your note brought tears to my eyes.  It must of been very difficult for
    you.  I can understand how you didn't want to rush the procedure.  Take
    care of yourself.  

My sympathy too.

When I miscarried between my two boys, I felt so bad and couldn't understand
that it was alright to feel so bad.  To have to take some action beyond what
your body does must be the most difficult thing you can do.

I wish you plenty of courage.

Cheryl

    My sister in law went through this experience about a year ago. What
    made it worse was that my wife concieved just before it happened. I've
    since found out that it is very common.
    
    I never for one minute thought that she had had an abortion and knew of
    nobody else who did.
    
    She is now 7 months pregnant again and everything is fine this time.
    
    I wish you well,
    
    Ian
    

    Jane, 
    I cannot begin to tell you how I feel for you - your note sounded so
    much like mine almost 2 years ago. (previous parenting volume,
    I think it was #789).
    I would be more than happy to talk with you about your feelings
    whether it be through email kaofs::M_FETT or on the phone.
    DTN 640-5193.
    It helps a lot to talk - the parenting folk were of the greatest
    help to me too.
    
    Monica

    sorry, the note in Volume 3 was #987.
    
    -Monica

    My sister-in-law went through something simular.  I don't remember her
    gestation but she went in for an ultrasound and they found that the
    baby wasen't developing properly.  She wanted to give it some more time
    to let it develope but she ened up very sick eventually and had a D&C. 
    It took her and my brother alot of time to get over it and now have a
    healthy 2 yr old boy that is huge and she is pregnant with her second,
    a boy also.
    
    

    Jane,
    
    Hello.  I'm often just a reader of NOTES but today find myself needing
    to respond.  
    
    This is my 6th pregnancy and I'm 9 weeks along so far.  I was
    successful with my first two pregnancies - my children are 6 and almost
    4.  My third pregnancy resulted in the average 6-week miscarriage that
    many of us have.
    
    The 4th and 5th pregnancy both resulted in the fetus  heart stopping,
    one at 12 weeks and the other at 13 weeks.  In both instances, I had
    ultrasounds at 8 weeks and everything appeared normal.  D&Cs were my
    only alternative, as you have mentioned.
    
    My doctor ran me through a battery of tests including chromosomes and
    gene testing as well as extensive blood work.  All of my results were
    normal and I was labeled as having 'habitual miscarriages.
    
    With this pregnancy my doctor has decided to give me progesterone 
    injections every two weeks up until the 12th week.  He said its for
    my ovaries, not the babies.  (I'm not certain if this will help!)
    
    For me, time hasn't healed much, however I am very optomistic about this
    pregnancy being successful.  The exception is that I can't bring myself
    to having another ultrasound just yet.  I'm scheduled for an ultrasound
    at 11 1/2 weeks, but know that I still won't be out of danger at that
    time.
    
    My only words of advice to anyone is ... miscarriages are very painful
    indeed, but if you want more children try to conceive as soon as you
    are ready.   (I've been pregnant every year since 1985 with the
    exception of 1987.)  My body and mind (as well as my husband) need a
    rest.  
    
    If this pregnancy is not successful, I still realize that I've been 
    blessed with the greatest gifts - my two children and my husband!
    
    Best of luck to all of you 'pregnant' and 'wanting-to-be-pregnant'
    ladies.  And my heart goes out to those who can't.
    
    
    						Karen

    This happened to my sister-in-law too.  She had had a couple of
    miscarriages, then was 5 months pregnant.  She went in for an
    appointment and they could no longer find a heartbeat.  She had to give
    birth.
    
    The baby was at least a month younger than it should have been.
    
    It was very hard on everyone in my family.  They then went on to adopt
    one son and give birth to another.  
    
    judy

    
    
    
    
    My deepest sympathies to you on your loss.
    
    This happened to my cousion almost 4 years ago.  The baby died in the
    womb and she never miscarried.  Actually she never new she was
    pregnant, because she had no signs of pregnancy.  She then went on to
    concive again while the dead baby was still inside her (like I said she
    did not know she was pregnant).  When she found out she was pregnant
    with the second and they did an ultrasound they found the first fetus
    and thought that they were twins.  They could not remove the first and
    when she deliverd (full term and a healthy baby girl) they did an
    otopsiy(sp) on the first and found out that it was concived before the
    second.  I had a miscarrage at 6 weeks and I know how hard that was for
    me, the pain still hurts even though I did get pregnant 3 months later
    and gave birth to a healthy little boy who is now 3 years old.
    
    
    Again my deepest sympathies.
    
    
    Liz

    Liz,
    
    I am just curious, did the first fetus that had died grow along with
    the second fetus?  I know you mentioned that sis an otopsy (SP) but
    how big was the baby at that point after 9 months?
    
    My sympathies to all that has gone thru a loss of a child.
    
    Laura

    I had a miss in September at about 6 weeks.  It was 'over' instantly
    and a d&c were not required.  I had fallen a few days before and broken
    my ankle.  I want to think that it had something to do with it.  I
    found myself asking why this happened, i'm healthy!  
    
    When I wasn't back to a normal cycle in October I went to the DR and
    was told I was pregnant!  We thought we were careful not to get
    pregnant right after a miscarriage but apparently not careful enough.
    
    We were happy as we had planned this second baby, our daughter will be
    three in may.  Then on Thanksgiving I started bleeding...
    I took it easy and it stopped for a couple of days then started again. 
    I had an ultrasound and saw the sac with the baby in it, I was told I
    was about 9 weeks.  The bleeding continued off and on.
    
    You know how you get a 'feeling' that something isn't right?  I started
    to have that feeling very strongly.  I didn't FEEL pregnant.  I was 
    going into the doctors twice a week.  The bleeding wasn't spotting,
    it was serious.  
    
    Finally on a Friday they said my uterus hadn't gotten bigger.  That
    I had probably lost the baby.  I wanted it over with.  They said I
    should have a D&C because i was pregnant twice in only 4 months.
    I wanted it over with, but they made me wait the weekend 'just to
    make sure".   This made me angry.  I felt like I had been getting the
    same answer for three weeks and I wanted it to be over.  I didn't
    like 'hoping' when all the signs were there that this pregnancy was
    not going to continue.  My parents went to church and lit candles.  
    My mother (mother of six) couldn't understand how I had given up.
    I tried to explain that I was hopeful and careful as much as I could
    be, but now I accepted it.  
    
    Monday's ultrasound showed the sac, but it was empty.  
    The first ultra sound by the way, showed the baby at the size of 6
    weeks when they thought I was 9 weeks along.  I started bleeding
    profusely from the ultrasound procedures.  I had a d&c about one
    hour after that without a local - just a 'novacaine' type anethestetic
    sp? to my cervix.
    This was horrid... noone I know has had a d&c without a local.  
    It was very painful and I started to hyperventilate during it.
    I was glad this whole nightmare was over.  
    
    At any rate, they have no explanations to give me.
    I'm sure I got pregnant to soon after the first miscarriage.
    I'm sad that i'm not pregnant, i'm sad that i have to wait more time.
    I'm sad that I had to go through all that.  I'm angry that I had to
    go through all that.
    
    So, as they keep telling us: these things happen.  ALL of my sister
    in laws have miscarried at least once.  One had a stillborn daughter 
    while i was in my seventh month with my daughter.  Sometimes I think
    people take it for granted that pregnancies will turn out perfect,
    and that when a woman is pregnant that doesn't change her physiology.
    I disagree.  I think being pregnant is a very delicate state to be in.
    
    I'm rambling, sorry!  What I wanted to say was, when these things
    happen, people don't know what to say so sometimes they say things
    that hurt us and they don't know it.  We each approach these times
    differently.  I wanted the 'products of conception' out of me.
    You weren't ready for that.  It's a very *delicate* situation.
    
    p.s.  They told me to wait 3 cycles, but i'm afraid now.  I don't know
    if I can handle another loss.
    
    good luck to all of us!
                                   

    I, too, usually am just a observer of this notes file, but wanted
    to express my sincere sympathies to Jane in the loss of her second
    child.  I've done alot of reading and wanted to say that it's
    ok and healthful healing to acknowledge and grieve over the lost
    little ones.  I am in my third pregnacy, with no living children.
    And when folks ask the common question "Is this your first?" I
    respond with "No, this my third..but I have no living children, but
    we are very optimistic this time".  That way, I am remembering and
    substantiating all my children.
    
    I lost Melissa, stillborn, she was 10 weeks early.  Many years later
    I lost the second at 3 months...like <.14>...sorry you didn't leave
    your first name...I also had a D&C without anything except a
    novacaine-type injection because I had eaten that day, but primarily
    that I had hung on too long thinking everything was ok, when it
    wasn't, like <.14> I knew previously the 10 week old fetus was only
    the size of a 5 week old fetus..but wouldn't give up...which caused
    me one Friday afternoon (after delaying a D&C the previous Monday)
    *moderate* blood loss and emergency D&C and a night's stay in the
    hospital.  My Dr. was *thankfully* not chastizing me for delaying
    the D&C, but to try to trust him next time...I learned something
    there...oh, to add another learning:  I tried to get back to work
    too early after this *dehibilitating* mis- and subsequently fell
    down my own stairs while getting dressed for work since I was still
    so weak...so *always* take the time you need after for physical
    healing...the despair I felt at the end of the stairs that morning
    I *NEVER* want to feel again when I could have avoided it.
    
    Please allow me to end on a bright, and dutifully earned note:I'm now 6 
    months along with this baby.  Dr. and mate keep very close
    eye on all progressions of pregnancy and attentive to all my requests/
    questions/fears.  (I even opted-out of the amnio (I'm 35) since I didn't 
    want one foreign "introduction" of anything in my uterus...and again Dr. 
    understood, opted for the tri-level ?ADF? ?APF? blook test that is very 
    accurate nowadays in testing for genetic, Down's, and spinal diseases.
    I will be receiving an  ultrasound at 7 months since it is justified 
    because of previous stillborn and will really put me at ease too.
    (Perhaps gender will be visible then!)  I was even hesitant in allowing
    anyone to send along to me baby clothes and allowing myself excitment
    is bringing up the baby furniture from the basement, but we are doing
    all of that now!  
    
    
    
    In summary, 

    
    My sympathies to all of you. I understand what you all have gone
    through. I remember thinking I was all alone when it happened and
    found out it was fairly common. I also thought my miscarriage was
    different than most, but I see that someone else in here (sorry,
    can't remember the reply number or name) had a very similar
    experience to mine. 
    
    I too had an early death in uetero. Everything seemed to be 
    going fine. At my 10 week checkup I heard the heartbeat. At 11 
    weeks I went for an ultrasound. I didn't see what I expected to see, 
    but the technician pointed out the sac and stuff and said I probably 
    just wasn't as far along as I thought. I knew when I got pregnant so I 
    didn't understand that statement, but let it ride. I figured my doctor
    would explain things when I went back for my next appointment. At 12 weeks 
    I spotted the teeniest amount. They told me not to worry, that it was very 
    common and to call back if I started to have bad pains or was passing a 
    lot of blood. Well, everything seemed fine and I went on a business trip 
    (they told me it would be fine). During the business trip and after while 
    visiting my sister in Texas I started spotting more, but it still wasn't 
    much and it was almost always a brown spotting not red. While at my sister's
    I called the doctor and they told me to come in when I got back. I went 
    for the appt and she checked me out and things didn't seem too bad: my 
    utereus was the right size, I was bleeding a little from the cervix, but I 
    had not dialated at all, she couldn't find the heartbeat but she said that 
    it isn't always that easy to find. Basically I left there with some hope 
    that things were going to be okay. They took some blood to check on my HCG 
    (???) levels. She said that if I was miscarrying this level would drop. 
    Well the level showed things to be okay so they said to come back in 3 
    more days for another blood test. For this one the level was a little bit 
    lower, but not enough for them to say that I was having a miscarriage, so 
    I had to go back 3 more days later for another blood test. This too was 
    inconclusive so they **finally** sent me for an ultrasound. There was 
    nothing there. No sac, no fetus, nothing. I was shocked!!! I hadn't passed 
    anything so where did it go?? My doctor referred me to Women's Medical
    Associates for my D&C. I had it as soon as I could. The feelings I had then
    are still hard to put into words. I was pregnant, I heard a heartbeat, where
    did it go??? Between that and the fact that my doctor didn't act on things
    a lot quicker and kept giving me hope instead of preparing me for the 
    possiblity that I had miscarried made things especially hard for me. I later
    found out that the official reading of my ultrasound at 11 weeks was 5-6 
    weeks gestation. This to me should have set off a warning in their minds 
    that something was wrong, especially when I started with the spotting. I 
    still have some bitterness towards this whole thing. The miscarriage I've 
    accepted, especially now that I have Anna (21 months), but I will probably 
    never truely get over what I concieve to be the bad way my case was 
    handled. As it ended up, I had my D&C 2 days before I was 16weeks along. 
    For my second pregnancy I went straight to Women's Medical and they were 
    wonderful in helping me deal with my anxities. 
    
    My sympathies to all who have gone through this and my hope that you 
    will one day have a healthy child as I now do. I will be attempting
    for child number two soon and already I can feel the anxities rearing
    their ugly head.
    
    Patty

    To the basenoter, may I too send my support your way.  I too have been
    through an early inutero death, unfortunately twice.  Both were within
    the first trimester, both were handled differently and with an OB who
    was very sensitive to my emotions.
    
    The first was 2.5 years ago, it was an unplanned pregnancy.  Because I
    hadn't really tracked my last period the OB did a vaginal ultrasound to
    try and establish a conception date.  At that point he said he didn't
    see "much" except a sac.  He suggested we do this again in 10 days,
    again the sac had grown but still no fetus.  He gave it another week,
    but we both had already drawn the conclusion of what was going on. 
    When the next ultrasound showed no growth, (he had also been tracking me
    by total Quantitative HCG blood tests, the numbers were not increasing
    in the right amount) we decided that the pregnancy was dead, and he
    advised me gently that a D&C was the best option for me.  He felt this
    way we could control the end of the pregnancy, so I wouldn't find
    myself at work one day hemoraging with what would eventually happen,
    the miscarriage.  I was scheduled for the D&C for the next day he did
    surgeries, only a couple days later.  I was treated gently by the day
    surgery people, especially the anesthesiologist who was very
    understanding of my feelings and usually preop terror.  After he
    inserted the IV which would be used for the anesthesia, he injected
    something directly into the IV to make me feel very groggy, per my OB's
    request.  My OB did stop by before the surgery to make sure I was
    "doing OK". I was to charged with emotions I was sobbing something
    about "NO, this isn't the way a pregnancy is supposed to end!"  the
    word abortion kept running through my mind, like a real monster.  I
    knew in my mind this wasn't an abortion, I just felt guilty and kept
    wanting to know what had gone wrong.  I kept blaming myself for what
    had happened.  I was sitting in my cube one day sobbing, and a male
    coworker came by to ask if he could help, he had no knowledge of what
    was happening this was before the D&C, I blurted out something like My
    baby is dying and I can't do anything about it!  He didn't even know I
    was pregnant so I did have to quickly offer an explaination to him. 
    He told me he went home that night to his 4 children, gave each one a
    hug, and then said a prayer for me.  I thought that to be wonderful.
    
    The second time the ultrasounds went much the same, but this time the
    doctor knew to let nature take it's course.  He did offer me the option
    of the D&C, but I couldn't handle another and he knew it.  I went home
    in the hopes that nature would take its course, and it did.  The
    afternoon of the second ultrasound the bleeding started, my HCG level
    were dropping, and the OB was in frequent touch with me by phone.  He
    said the D&C would likely not be needed, but insisted on another HCG
    and ultrasound two weeks later, all had returned to normal by that
    time.
    
    Sorry to ramble, I really thought too that I was the first and only one
    who had ever had such a thing happen to me.  I kept thinking it was all
    just a bad nightmare and would end soon.  Thankfully I had the support
    of a loving family and friends.  They are the reason I survived with my
    head in tact.
    
    Lyn