Conference moira::parenting

    
    As the father of three, I will suggest.
    
    Don't take away something they need even if it's something they also
    want.  
    
    FWIW-We have found ouselves in the same perdicament which you find
    yourself in.  Explain it to her that she needs the dress and take away
    something she wants but doesn't need.
    
    
    Mike

    Just to add to the confusion, I disagree with .1  :-)
    
    My feeling is that if you carry out a threat ("if you don't calm
    down, we'll leave without buying the dress") then you should stick
    to your guns. For me, this philosophy has meant that I have to be very 
    careful what I threaten, to make sure I really will/can follow through. 
    
    Now that you have, it seems wishy-washy to me to barter the next day 
    ("OK, we'll get the dress after all, but now you have to give up Sesame 
    Street instead"). I think this gives a bad message.
    
    On the other hand, no one is perfect. So if having the new dress is
    really important for you, I'm sure being inconsistent one time won't
    ruin her forever!
    
    Lucy

    I agree with Lucy.  I would stick with my guns and forget about
    the dress.  However, if you really want to make an exception, make
    sure you repeat the message.  Don't take away something else from her.  
    It will just confuse her more.
    
    Wendy

    It really won't be the end of the world if she has her picture taken
    in something else! If carrying through with your actions is what you
    want to do, that's more important that a fancy dress for a picture. 
    
    Cyn

    
    It sounded to me like Mom wanted the dress as well.  I see nothing
    wrong with getting the dress but explaining to her that the dress is
    being bought for the pictures.  I also said that if you are going to
    use taking away something, don't take away something that she needs (or
    that you want for her), but something that she wants.  Just a little
    clarification.  
    
    
    Mike

    Mike, I think we agree. I agree that ideally (we're all ideal parents, 
    aren't we?!) we would find ourselves in the store with a screaming kid, 
    and say "If you can't calm down, we will have to come back another time 
    for the dress. And by the way, I think your behavior means you are not 
    ready to [have x] or [do y]" or whatever is appropriate. 
    
    (If only we could all think this clearly at the time. I have trouble
    myself.)
    
    Lucy

     I believe, as one of the previous notes states, that the child does not
NEED the dress.  While I think that it's nice to have pictures taken with the
child dressed neatly, I don't think that a "party" dress is necessary.  The
fact that she doesn't now have one indicates to me that dressing in a "party
dress" is not her normal state, and the dress is likely to be a bad
investment anyway.  Like Mike, I am a bit unclear as to whether it is the
mother that wants the dress, but the child is indifferent (or even hostile)
to the idea, or whether both mother and daughter want the dress.  I think
that the strategy is different for those two cases.
     It seems to me that a possible compromise is not buy THAT dress, but
rather go to some other store, and buy some other dress or some other outfit.
The practical side of me says to buy some new clothes that she will get some
use out of later; you can guess by now that I'm one of those folks who
doesn't think it's necessary, important, or even desirable for girls to wear
frilly dresses.
     While I agree with Mike's principle in .1, I think there's another
principle of discipline that's equally important.  The "punishment" should
somehow be related to the offense.  The punishment meted out in .0 seems to
fit that bill to me.  I can't offhand think of anything that fits both Mike's
principle and mine. 
     And still another comment -- trying on and selecting clothes is one of
the parental experiences that I found very stressful, both for my children
and me.  I have no sense of what size is appropriate, and little sense of
style.  So if I took them clothes shopping, we had to try on everything. 
Both they and I hated it.
     If that's true of your daughter, especially if she's indifferent as to
whether she gets a new outfit or not, then you might try some positive
reinforcement instead of negative.  For example, if she behaves herself, buy
her an ice cream on the way home.  On the other hand, if she really wants the
new outfit, getting it should be sufficient reward. 

Clay

    
    I go to yard sales to get my kids clothes, it cuts down on the
    selection as well as saves money. ;')
    
    Sorry I wasn't being clearer folks, but Clay has hit it on the button.
    Who wanted the dress?  If it was mommy then the leaving did not solve
    the problem, if it was mommy and then the child, I don't think the
    leaving solved the problem, if it was the child then it may have solved
    the problem partially.  There is still the question of what the child
    is going to wear for the pictures, the parent is kind of painted into a 
    corner as I see it.
    
    RE: "we are all ideal parents"  I don't know about that I know of at
    least 1 million things on which I have second guessed myself. :')  We
    all do our best, that's for sure.
    
    
    Mike

	1. Sit down with your child and talk to her about the behavior
	    that caused you to leave the store. Let her know that this
	    type of behavior is unacceptable. 

	2. Establish a defined punishment for any future occurances of
	    this behavior that will not put you in the position you are
	    now in.

	3. Take your daughter back to the store and get the dress.


	I would normally have agreed with previous replies. However,
	we are dealing with a 3.5 year old here not a 10 year old. In the
	great scheme of things getting the dress is not a real big deal. 
	Giving the impression that the behavior is acceptable is a big deal. 
	

    I wonder if any punishment is warranted here at all.  Taking a 3 1/2
    year old shopping at night and expecting her to behave nicely may be
    just too much to ask.  If the problem was that she was too tired to
    behave nicely, I don't believe she deserves punishment.  (On the other
    hand, I do fully understand the frustration that would lead a parent
    to give out punishment in such a situation!)

					cheryl

    I wonder if the child knew 1) where she was going, and 2) what was
    expected of her once she got there. If we can take the time to explain
    these things to our children, often the experience is less unpleasant. 
    
    Also- does the child really have to be part of the selection/approval
    process for the garment. Why not just purchace it (with or without 
    the child present) and dress her in it the day of the pictures.
    Although it is nice to involve them in our routines, children (at that
    age) really do not have a real sense of style/appropriatness for
    different social situations.
    
    Also- children get tired (crankey), and have moods as well. Why is 
    punishment needed at all, how bout' rational discussion. Perhaps
    her behavior was a result of some unrelated event, and not _directley_
    related to the process of selecting the garment.
    
    just some ideas......
    Bob (father of 3 girls 2-4-7) 

    Thanks for all the advice.  This is what I did...
    
    When we got home from the store and got calmed down, I explained to
    her why her behavior was not acceptable and reminded her that the
    way to get things she wanted was to ask nicely, act properly, and
    that tantrums result in NOT getting whatever it was.
    
    I had promised Steph (before all this happened) that we would go out 
    to get new shoes the next night (last night).  Before we left I told 
    her that if she proved that she could act properly in the store that 
    I would buy the dress she wanted.  She did, and she got the dress.
    
    And to clear up the other questions...  Getting a new fancy dress is
    definately a treat for Steph.  She has a strong mind of her own and
    much prefers to wear pretty dresses to other clothes.  Some children are
    indifferent to clothes - my daughter is not of that mind.  My main
    mistake was to go shopping so late in the day when she was likely to
    be cranky.  I also forgot to reinforce to her before we left exactly
    what I expected to do and how I expected her to behave before we left.
    This seems to work best for us.  Thanks for all your input.
    
    					Mair
    

re: .12

Sounds to me like you should be GIVING advice, not ASKING for it.  :^)

Seriously, thanks for bringing up an interesting topic.

Clay

    Mair,
    
    Yes, I am taking notes, because my own daughter, although only 16
    months old, is already showing an interest in what she wears, and she
    also is extremely strong-willed. So I expect to be in your shoes in
    another couple of years, or sooner. She already insists on changing
    from her sneakers to her snow boots and back, several times a day.
    
    Being a jeans and sweater type myself, and having no other daughters,
    I'm having trouble getting used to this "girlie" stuff.
    
    Lucy

re: .14

	Lucy, keep in mind that clothing preferences tend to change, and that 
it's possible, perhaps even probable, that your daughter will end up as a 
jeans and sweater type.  Up till maybe third grade or so, our daughter liked 
to wear dresses.  It was very frustrating to us, since there were many days 
that a new pair of tights would be ruined in a matter of hours.
	She's in seventh grade now, and the last time she had on a dress was 
for her sixth grade graduation.

Clay

    RE .12
    
    Sound like an excellent strategy to me. Very well done...
    
    And, may I add that Stephanie looked marvelous this morning in her new
    dress. Even Nick commented on it (considering it contained most of his
    favorite colors). 
    
    At the risk of sounding sexist...it was *so* cute to watch the
    preschool girls ooh and aah over each other's outfits as each one
    arrived. When Kimmy saw Steph this morning, she remarked "Stepanie, you
    look beautiful!", and then the two of them went over to Laura and said
    pretty much the same thing. Nick was kind of bummed that he wasn't
    getting the same attention, so one of the teachers commented that he
    looked beautiful, too. His response..."I'm not beautiful, I'm handsome!"
    
    Freddie

    Thanks, folks.  I can't take all the credit.  That was my question of
    the day to almost everyone I knew who has kids.  Someone else suggested
    having her prove herself again, and it sounded most reasonable to me.
    
    I'm sorry I missed the parade of dressed up kids today.  Knowing that
    group of kids, I'm not surprized this is turning into a fashion show.
    
    					Mair
    

    On kids and clothes shopping, whenever possible, I buy through
    catalogs.  JC Penny is great for that.  With a catalog, my two girls
    can sit in the comfort of home and see what the clothes look like on
    the child in the catalog.  We can order and they usually have the size
    we want, unlike at a store where too many times the desired item is not
    in the desired size!  I might spend a few dollars on delivery charges,
    but it's well worth it not to have to drive to a crowded mall and haul
    a child around trying on clothes.  If something from the catalog
    doesn't fit, it's very easy to exchange (and usually without an added
    delivery charge).  We buy everything from tights to undies to boots and
    jackets through catalogs.  LL Bean and Lands End are also favorites.
    
    Kathleen
    

        This woman sounds like she is just doing daycare to supplement her
	income thus enabling her to stay at home.  Keep looking.  I saw
	tons of people like that and finally found Terry.  Terry is an
	ex-kindergarden teacher with her youngest child being 12.  She
	clearly does daycare because she loves children and that is the 
	sort of person that I want taking care of my child!  She absolutely
	loves Lauren and Lauren loves her (and I get jealous....).

	What was her reaction to your child?  That is what is really
	important.  Was she really interested in him?  Or was he viewed
	as just a source of income.

	Of course, you could always ask her to use "your" methods of
	discipline with your child.  You could explain that for consistency
	sake, you prefer that she use time-outs in a chair since that
	is what you use at home.  If she objects, don't use her!  Simple!

	Karen

In our last home we had plenty of stairs and would do timeouts with the
child sitting on the stairs.  In our new home, though, there are no safe
stairs so we have the child sit on the floor at the end of a short hallway.
We have them face the wall (or closed door, usually) so they aren't 
distracted.  If we don't do that then the 6 year old glares at us and 
really isn't taking the time "out" he needs, and the 2 year old gets to playing
with whatever is within reach (even leaving his spot to do it).  We don't
want him playing because he is typically in timeout for playing inappropriately
(hitting, etc) and we want him to take time out from playing so there is a
break between the inappropriate behavior and the new start.

One time not long ago our 6 year old was particurly misbehaving, going into
what I called a 6 year old's temper tantrum.  When nothing else worked I had
him sit in a small chair in the actual corner, telling him that if he was 
going to act like a younger child then I would treat him like one.  It worked
remarkably well (though I have not tried it again, nor have I needed to).

I can, therefore, understand why this woman would have a child stand in a
corner.  It's also possible that she has also had a problem with the child 
that necessitated her figuring out a way to keep him from turning his head
and doing something he wasn't supposed to do.  The solution for her may have
been the nose to the wall, keeping the head there without hurting the child.  
I have never done this, nor have I had the need for it, but you could ask her
what her reasons are. 

     Carol

    Patty,
    
    Licensed daycare mothers can't give any child in their care a "whack on 
    the butt," at least in Colorado.  Time outs vary depending on the
    mom's.  My experience with two daycare mothers was a chair out of the
    main traffic and play area.  This was to avoid both disruption to the
    other kids, and a quiet space to allow the out of control child to
    settle down and regain control.  If her space is limited she might just
    use the "corner" method, but I would ask more about it if it bothers
    you.  
    
    I have used the corner method when I had four kids raising riot, and
    fighting with each other.  Five minutes was  generally enough for them
    to regain control and then we could talk about why kids  don't hit each
    other.  Now these were older kids (5 and up) with a couple of
    brother/sister teams, and not two year olds, but your potential daycare
    mother may have found this as the best working method of several for
    her son.  
    
    As far as guns and ammo.  If they are locked up and kept sepertely,
    what is the problem?  Most gun owners are very responsible about their
    collections, as no one wants an accident due to neglegence on their
    part.  It is more the people who have guns in the home and don't say
    anything about them that would make me nervous.  
    
    meg

    
    Patty,
    
    	If the guns and ammo are stored separately and locked up, there
    shouldn't be any problems. 
    
    	When I was in school, standing in the corner facing the wall
    was an effective punishment. Any kind of punishment is humiliating
    IMHO, especially corporal punishment. I would not have any problem
    having my kid face the wall when she misbehaves. It would give her
    time to calm down and reflect; to regain her self control.
    
    	I think you should be able to ask the daycare provider to use
    your method of discipline. In Mass and New Hampshire, licensed daycare
    provider cannot administer corporal punishment, though. I think
    maybe this is an opportunity to find a different way to regain
    control for your kid, since corporal punishment cannot be used
    for the rest of your kid's life, whereas timeouts and cooling offs
    are important skills that adults still need and use daily. ;-)
    
    
    Eva
    

If you are not comfortable, then I would listen to that feeling.  Jonathan will
probably have less ability to tell you about things that you would have
been uncomfortable with.

I wouldn't knowingly leave my child with someone that had guns.

Beryl

    
    Help!
    
    Chris is almost 10 yrs old, and in general, a well-behaved kid.  He
    argues with his middle brother a lot, but other than that I've really
    never had a problem with him.
    
    Yesterday I go to pick him up at daycare, and he's sitting in the "time
    out" chair.  He started blurting out his offenses (swearing), and how
    he's been there all day, and he just "forgot", and it was an
    "accident".  The director spoke with me, and said that for several
    days, she's really been having trouble with a bunch of kids swearing
    and being disrespectful to the staff.  From as near as I can tell,
    Chris swore on the van after school, while mimicking a scene from one
    of his 'favorite' movies (he said hell or damn - not sure which)was
    sent to "time out", was released, and then shortly thereafter, swore
    again (either hell or a** - not sure again).  The director said that
    the kids have also been disrespectful to the staff, but I've been
    unable to get a good feel for how much of this is actually Chris, and
    how much is just "the kids" in general.  I don't believe he's a saint,
    but I'm struggling with an appropriate "punishment", when I'm not sure
    what the "crime" really was.
    
    The other part of my struggle, is that I have no experiences of my own
    that I can draw on to help administer something appropriate.  When I
    was a kid, if you did anything wrong, it was physical punishment (more
    than just a swat on the butt), and the extent of which was pretty much
    determined by how pissed off my mother was.
    
    I'm not, per se, 'pissed off' about this, but clearly it's not
    appropriate, nor should it be continued!  The daycare is writing up
    policies with the kids today, the kids will be allowed 3 'misdemeanors'
    (-; each occurance will result in a written note home.  If he breaks
    the rules a 4th time, he's not allowed to stay at daycare for the day,
    and I'll need to go pick him up (THAT would piss me off!).
    
    In an effort to try to figure out the cause of the problem, I think
    it's got a lot to do with some of the kids he's been hanging out with
    at the daycare, a lot to do with the fact that he'd rather be at a
    DIFFERENT daycare, and maybe he's being exposed to "too much" of this
    kind of talk/behavior in movies/tv that he's been watching.
    
    So anyway, I read him the riot act last night, and made it PERFECTLY
    clear that I was NOT going to stand for this behavior, and it wasn't
    going to be accepted.  THEY were giving him 3 chances, I was giving him
    ONE chance, and if I ever got a note home about this behavior again, he
    was going to be in deep sneakers.  He is not allowed to watch the
    Simpson's anymore (as of late, Bart has become his hero), and the only
    movies he's allowed to watch will be rated G or PG.  No more PG-13. 
    These 2 things caused him to start crying, so I THINK I got somewhere. 
    I explained to him that he's been seeing and hearing things that maybe
    he shouldn't have been, but we've been letting him because we thought
    he was old/mature enough to be able to know the difference between
    what's okay to "hear" and what's okay to "say" and how to "act". 
    Obviously he is not making the right choices, and so he is not allowed
    to see/hear those kinds of things until we feel he can make the right
    decisions about his own behavior.
    
    I also told him that he's stuck at that daycare, and don't expect it to
    be changed just because he whines a little.  He doesn't HAVE to love
    where he is - he just has to be SAFE.  I reminded him that it's up to
    HIM how happy he wants to be there.  If he wants to follow their (few!)
    rules, then he can have a good time and play and do things he enjoys. 
    If he's NOT willing to follow the rules then he's going to make his
    life miserable there, and my life miserable (if I have to pick him up),
    which is only going to make his life miserable at home.  The choice is
    up to him whether he wants to fit in and be happy - or Not.
    
    Finally, this is the 2nd time he's been "spoken to" (the first offense
    was pretty minor) in which he says that he was with this 1 particular
    kid.  So, I told him that he's not to play with Johnny for a while
    until he can straighten out.  I don't care who he's friends with, but
    if he's going to start replicating their bad behavior, then that's NOT
    okay.  Johnny is a nice enough kid, but he's a street kid, and is the
    type who NEVER gets caught doing anything.  Chris gets caught, and if
    what he says is true, ends up taking the fall for Johnny more than once
    in a while.  Chris has to learn (in my opinion) how to deal with people
    that may display "bad" behavior, and not REPEAT the behavior.
    
    So ...... I've told a few people what happened and what I did, and I've
    been getting funny looks.  I can't really "ground" him, because he
    doesn't GO anywhere, so it would be like telling him he has to breathe. 
    Totally pointless.  If I take away TV or something, it would have a
    fairly major (negative) impact on the rest of the household, as that
    would mean no one could watch.  Sending him to his room is NOT a
    "punishment" to him.  He enjoys being there.  My only other thought was
    to force chores on him, but that was done to us as a kid, and now
    everytime I do housework, I feel like I "did something wrong".  I'd like
    to avoid instilling that in my kids.
    
    Soooooooooo .... do you think that what we've done so far is appropriate?  
    Do you think that any more needs to be done?  Or have I "overdone" it?
    
    Comments/suggestions welcomed!
    
    Thanks,
    Patty

    
    Patty,
    
    	I would have done the same thing, you have made your point
    clear to your kid. You have made your expectation clear to him.
    I think he is old enough to make or to learn to make choices. 
                                                 
    	There is this girl in the neighborhood who is a wisegal. She
    put ideas in my daughter's mind that we do not tolerate. My daughter
    got into trouble with us and I told her pretty much the same thing
    "I don't care who you hang out with as long as you stick to the
    rules in this house. Just because her parents don't mind certain
    behaviors doesn't mean that the behaviors are right nor does it mean
    WE have to put up with it." We didn't punish her since it was a matter 
    of judgement learning for her. We didn't have to tell her twice and
    she doesn't hang out with that girl that much anymore.
    
    	 
    Eva

    Patti,

    I don't see anything wrong with how you've handled the situation with
    your son - I have had the same issue with my 10+ boy (not with swearing
    [yet] but with acting out) and have basically said the same types of 
    things.

    Like you, I can't "ground" him since the things he'd miss out on are
    the things I'm hoping will help him grow up as a well-behaved teen
    (like Church and Scouts) and I hate restricting TV time since that's	
    some of our special nighttime time together after being apart all day.
    I'll take away desserts after supper or special videos or maybe 
    watching TV in the afternoon when he's with the sitter but then that
    (the latter) means she's in one room/he's in another, so I try not
    to do that.  When it's been *really* bad (like after my roommate 
    moved away), I have gone as far as not letting him go to scout special
    activities, but that's really a last resort for me !

    With regard to telling him not to play/be with the other boy, I've
    done that with Matt too with regard to one kid in class that *always*
    gets him in trouble !!!  Sometimes it's hard, maybe they're put
    next to each other at an activity or such, but after a few times of
    still getting into trouble with this kid, Matt will do his best to
    stay away from him where goofing around will get him in trouble - it's
    fine to play with him at recess (if he really wants to), but in the
    classroom, uh-uh !!

    It's not fun being the parent sometimes, is it ?

    Hang in,
    Debbi

    
 

    
    One thing you may want to add is for Chris to "face" the staff
    and director that he's been disrespectful of.
    
    Either have him write a note or explain in person (this is the toughest)
    that he knows what he did was wrong, how he is being punished
    and that he will be more respectful and not swear in the future.
    
    This will be worse for him that added chores.
    

    
    Thanks for the replies so far!! (gee, maybe I'm not nuts!  THAT'S a
    nice thought (-;)
    
    I spoke with the director again, and again she's pretty vague about
    what Chris actually did wrong.  She's unable to give me any clear
    instances (not to say he's innocent, just makes it harder to get at the
    root/depth of the problem).
    
    I thought about the "face the music", but a)he already did apologize to
    the staff, and b)since he really doesn't seem to fear/respect them,
    it's more just a motion than anything "heartfelt".  I can remember
    trembling in my shoes when forced to 'face the music', but that was
    only in instances where the person I'd offended didn't know it was ME
    who committed the offense.  The "finding out" part seems to be the
    worse.  He was caught and apologized - is a written apology that much
    more effective?  
    
    One thing I did find out, is that the worst of it is caused by a group
    of ~9 kids, 3-4 of whom are pretty horrendous (or so I'm told).  The
    rest of the kids try to "keep up" with the real baddies, and get
    themselves into trouble.  When something "bad" happens, the code of
    silence goes into effect immediately, and no one is willing to say who
    did what, so they all get into trouble.  The cost of sticking by your
    friends.  I DID find out though, that there's one kid in this group who
    does understand all this stuff, and when the "bad" kids start acting
    up, this kid will leave the group and go play with the younger kids. 
    This *IS* an option for any of those kids, so we plan to tell Chris
    tonight, that if they start acting up, to just go with Andrew, and then
    HE won't have to worry about getting into trouble because of something
    that THEY did wrong.  This at least gives him an option.  If he chooses
    not to take that option, then it's pretty clear that the problem is his
    own, and not just the kids he's hanging with.
    
    FUN?!?!  Being a PARENT?!?  HA!!!!  The first few years was
    interesting!  I just wish I could figure out when they had the lobotomy
    that drives them to act this way ..... (-:  It's a good thing they're
    cute and amazing, eh?
    
    And there's 2 more behind him .... groan!
    
    Thanks!  And feel free to keep the comments coming ....!!
    
    -Patty

    
    Patty,
    
    	It is great that your son has an option.
    
    	I wonder if this is the start of the real peer pressure 
    that eventually turns into the more serious stuff like cutting
    class and drugs that we are all waiting for! I guess it is
    time for them to practise what we've taught them all these
    years. Lovely...
    
    
    Eva

    
    >	I wonder if this is the start of the real peer pressure 
    >that eventually turns into the more serious stuff like cutting
    >class and drugs that we are all waiting for! I guess it is
    >time for them to practise what we've taught them all these
    >years. Lovely...
    
    Well, it SOUNDS like it is, so far.  That's why I'm so thrilled that he
    DOES have an option, and hoping that he uses his head enough to choose
    the option.  I hope hope hope hope hope that this will WORK for him, so
    that when it IS more serious stuff he'll remember that there might just
    be an option (since it worked in the past), and to look for it, and go
    with it.
    
    Of course balance all that with trying not to raise a nerd .... (-:
    
    How do you know how much to "shelter" them?!   And what do you do when
    it becomes clear that they haven't learned ENOUGH!?  Yikes!  Talk about
    a leap of blind faith here ... "Go on, make your decisions, and I'll
    try to trust what I've taught you!"  I'm not THAT secure in my
    parenting abilities! (-:
    
    

    Patty, for what it's worth, I think you did great.  I wish I could
    exhibit such thoughtful and relevant reactions and consequences.

    To all:  There is something that I find myself facing all to often, and
    I thought I'd throw out to this group to see if there are any brilliant
    solutions :-)  How do you react when one of you children comes to to to
    tattle on another?  One scenario that comes to mind is that child A
    says B is writing on the wall, and when you check it out B is caught in
    the act?  Obviously B should wash the wall, but do you thank A?  Or
    chastise A?  Or even go as far as make A help wash the wall?

    I think in an instance where the child is definitely doing
    something destructive to person or property, it is right for
    one child to tell.  In this case Child B would be punished.
    
    In the case where Child A is tattling constantly for no
    apparent reason, ie. he looked at me, he called me a baby....
    then Child A and Child B should be punished.  In these
    instances the children should be able to solve their own
    problems - considering that they are old enough to either
    1) blow it off because it doesn't matter or 2) discuss
    the problem calmly and come to a decision between them.
    
    I can not stand tattling but, sometimes it could save a 
    lot of trouble in the long run to know that someone is
    digging up your flowers or dumping the water out of the toilet
    onto the floor or fun things like that so you can take 
    appropriate action.
    
    Pam

    re .32
    

    >Patty, for what it's worth, I think you did great.  I wish I could
    >exhibit such thoughtful and relevant reactions and consequences.

    Thanks!  For what it's worth, it SURE didn't come easy to me!  If I'd
    have BEEN there and witnessed it myself, I'm sure the reaction would
    have been quite different and a bit more explosive.
    
    Honestly I had NO IDEA what to do, and it took me almost 2 hours to
    finally reach a conclusion!  But the 2 hours was probably to my
    "advantage" because Chris KNEW he was in trouble, and kind of suffered
    through until I finally decided and talked to him.  
    
    I have the same kinds of issues with tattling .... I can't say I've
    made great progress lately, but in the past, I used to be able to tell
    them "That's the only brother you'll ever have - you better be nice to
    him!", and that seemed to draw them together a little more.
    
    If life was perfect, I'd have them tell me if someone/some thing was
    going to get hurt.  BUT if they were telling JUST to get someone in
    trouble, then that was wrong. 
    
    Good luck enforcing it!