Conference moira::parenting

    
    You said you wanted personal feedback..so here goes.
    
    I didn't find anything wrong with using a walker with my son. We
    started putting him in it when he could successfully hold his head 
    up and had good strength in his legs (approx 4+ mos).  He loved it!
    Started by just standing in it and playing with the toys onthe tray,
    then in no time would cruise around the house in it. 
    
    I felt it gave him a chance to be "mobile" and explore things on his
    own until he was able to crawl and get around on his own. Never mind
    the added convience to the parents to know they are partially confined 
    (when they start getting around on their own). The walker can't fit
    everywhere, and takes awhile to learn how to manuver thru doors, etc.
    
    The feedbacks about them being safe are understandable, but isn't there 
    a risk with just about everything these days???  You must be cautious
    to remove things that can be reachable to this now "mobile" baby,
    (you have to do that when they start crawling/walking anyways), and you 
    need to be cautious to stairways, doors, etc..(again, you'll have to 
    be careful of this sooner or later).  
    
    As far as the physical problems it could cause on their legs/walking
    etc...I don't really have any comment, I haven't read enough of it, 
    but I can tell you that my 1 yr old seems to have very strong legs, and 
    straight as a pin. Ankles too. 
    
    We loved ours (Fisher Price)...
    Chris
    

    My little girl is 3 1/2 months, and she has been in her walker since
    3 months.  She doesn't move, just stands, and she loves it.  She has
    always wanted to stand though, even when you sat her in your lap.
    It's a great way to have her content while I get other things done.  
    
    Sue

     Another positive experience (or two) with walkers.  My oldest son used
    his from 4 months on until he began walking (he never crawled - but not
    for lack of opportunity - he rolled).  He didn't start moving it until
    he was 6 months (short legs, like mom).  We had an old apartment with
    thresholds and never an accident.  The walker was a hand-me-down from
    my sister so it was about 8 years old when we got it.
    
    We used the same one two years later for my second son.  He went in it
    at 3 months and was moving that thing (backwards at first) by the time
    he was 4 months (longer/stronger legs than brother).  He wore that one
    out and we replaced it with another.  We had one accident due to a gate
    not being secure (luckily it was just a scratch on his nose) at the
    stairs in our second floor apartment.  
    
    Both my kids were walking by 12 months.  The younger started at 9
    months, but then after a freefall to the floor and a bad cut on his lip
    decided to crawl until he had "more experience".  Both my kids had good
    strong legs with no adverse effects.
    
    And yes, despite what I have heard and read I would use them again -
    but this time keep an extra eye on the gates!!!!
    
    -sandy
    

	Emily's been in her walker a few weeks.  She started in it
	shortly after 4 months, as soon as her legs were long enough.

	She went from standing in it, to moving it backwards (second
	day), to cruising.  When I stand at the counter cooking, she'll
	start bouncing towards me in her walker with the biggest smile
	on her face.  I'm sure it's a similar enjoyment to the bungie
	jumper, but she is mobile.  She *loves* to chase the dog, and
	giggles while she "pets" her.

	I live in a ranch, with only one "risky" area, and there are
	actually two doors between her and danger.  At this age,
	although I watch her closely and require that all doors be 
	closed at all times, I'm not concerned about her having an
	accident.  At the first sign of Houdini-esque talent, it's
	going bye-bye until the next baby (probably at 6 months for
	this bundle of energy :-) )

	Karen

    I agree with everything that has been said about walkers.  They do
    provide a lot of freedom for the baby.  We took the walker away as soon
    as our baby was crawling (6 months), and he started walking just before
    he was 10 months (just a couple of weeks ago).
    
    I'm definitely an advocate.
    
    Leslie

    	We used our walker as an additional "baby station" where we could
    put Spencer in yet another position. We took it away when he started
    being mobile in it (Probably around 6-7 months) he did not start
    walking on his own until 11 1/2 months.

    	For us, it was just another place to put Spencer and some of his
    toys for awhile. I had no plans to continue using it once he could get
    around in it, I *personally* feel that they interfere with development
    and am concerned enough about possible leg/joint damage that I would
    not risk it. But for the short while that we used it, it was certainly
    helpful.

    			Wendy

    Thanks for all the replies...the positive feedback sounds good.
    
    Got a couple more questions.....
    
    1) My husband says our carpet is way to plush and that the walker won't
       move on it...of course he knows this without even trying one...but
       maybe he is right...anybody out there got thick carpet?
    
    2) Chelsea is almost 5-1/2 months old.  Since alot of the feedback
       mentioned taking their child out around 6-7 months, do you think
       its a good idea to purchase one for her at this age? 
    
       I do like the idea of being able to contain her in an area....getting
       ready  in the morning is starting to be a real challenge.  I like her to
       be in an upright position after breakfast...increases the odds of
       keeping the food in her tummy and off the floor.  Right now I use
       her swing cuz its got a large tray and I just stack toys on it and
       don't turn it on...this only lasts about 10 minutes.  
    
       Anybody have any creative ideas on how they manage to get ready in
       the morning when there child is at this wonderful age!!
    
       Thanks again,
    
       ...Lori
    

    
    I too used and loved the walker for Anna. She went in it a few days
    before she turned 4 months and she was cruising around in no time.
    Anna walked on her own 1 week before her first birthday. We had already
    removed the walker by then, maybe when she was about 10 months old. She
    was getting too dangerous, ie fast and climbing out, in it.
    
    In regards to the carpet, Anna mastered the walker on the linolium
    long before the carpet. Our carpet is not super plush but it is plush.
    She would have to really work at it to get it going on the carpet but
    could still move it around. The carpeting should not be a problem.

    
    Any idea of how to get ready in the morning with a child at this age:
    
    My Answer:  A walker!
    
    Really. As someone said, they come in handy when you want to get
    something done... Until they have it mastered and are flying all over
    the place, they don't move real fast and are easy to keep your eye on
    (the child).
    
    I wouldn't say its too late to buy one at 5 mos... Once Michael started 
    crawling we didn't use it AS much, but aain, it came in handy when you
    needed to do something (prepare dinner, etc). Once he started walking
    its pretty much been obsolete (11 mos)...although, there has been a
    rare occasion that I have pulled it out of the closet to enable myself
    to take a shower while being alone with the baby even at this age.  
    
    Yep, when they start walking and LOVE the bathtub, you have to get 
    creative on how to get "yourself" showered along with him bathed.  I take 
    off all his clothes but his diaper, bring the walker inthe bathroom, and 
    put him in it, and close the door. I then jump in the shower and quickly 
    wash while he plays with the toys on the tray, moves around etc..  Then 
    when I am done showering, I open the doors, whip off the diaper, flip the 
    plug on the bathtub and we take a bath together and get him cleaned up. 
    If I didn't use the walker he's be climbing all over the bathroom 
    (chance to fall/smash into vanity w/face, etc), or sliding open the doors 
    on me trying to climb in (he LOVES the water).
    
    I'd say get one! 
    
    Chris
    
    PS...  The Fisher Price one is adjustable for those babies with shorter
           legs...
    
      

    
    We substituted the walker for a high chair.   He started eating
    before he could sit up and the tray came in handy.  
    
    I think the biggest worry for parents is that they are very
    dangerous to use near stairs.
    
    Jeanne
    

    My adoption social worker mentioned that there has been some
    research done on lack of crawling in babies due to walkers. She
    said the research said that if the walkers were used too often,
    the babies go from walker-walking to walking without hardly any
    crawling in between. Two concerns were raised about this; eye-
    hand coordination that crawling helps develop, and leg/joint
    development, which can get effected by the stress sitting while
    walking can put on the joints. Her conclusion was to use the
    walker as a place to sit and play occasionally but to limit
    its use and encourage crawling.
    
    I don't have any personal experience to speak from. My sister used
    one for my niece ALL the time and Sarah loved it. She walked early
    and is bright. Maybe time will tell, who knows. I think
    I would mix it and encourage the crawling in the evening when getting
    ready for work isn't an issue. 

    
	Creative ideas on how to manage to get ready in the morning with a
    young child?
    
    
    		isn't that what a husband is for ;-)
    
    	
    		 Wendy who couldn't do without hers.
    
    

    My daughter, Kristen Marie, is a little over 6 months old and we have
    been using a walker for her since she was about 5 months old. As some
    of the other noters have commented; first she just stood, then she
    moved backwards, and now she is moving forward at will and loving it!
    
    In fact, we recently spent a weekend at my mom's, without the walker, 
    and both my daughter and I really missed having it around.  I think that 
    Kristen got tired of being held all the time; but the other option (being
    "stuck" on her back) was frustrating for her as well.  The walker provides 
    her with a sense of freedom and independence that she would not
    otherwise have.  We missed having one around so much that we have 
    decided to keep our eyes open at yards sales etc... for a used one to 
    keep at my mom's house.
    
    Also, I asked my daughters's pediatrician about using a walker and
    he did not have any reservations about it.  So... I have only positive
    comments to make about them - in fact, I don't know what we'd do without
    ours now that we have become accustomed to having it around (it makes
    cooking dinner possible once again!).
    
    IMHO, I would say by all means invest in one - both you and your child will
    probably enjoy it.
                                                    
    Elaine

    re. 12
    
    Husbands who are carpenters and leave the house at 4:30am don't do 
    mommies much good in the morning....but they sure are appreciated
    in the evening hours when I'm trying to do laundry, clean bottles,
    fix dinner (good luck!) and spend time with Chelsea!!
    
    ...Lori

It's really quite remarkable.  I don't think I have ever seen *any*
parenting issue where the expert opinion is so nearly unanimously 
against something, and where so many parents so happily ignore the
expert advice.

This is not just a comment on this particular topic.  The same question
has come up in the last couple of versions of PARENTING, with almost
exactly the same responses.

We're not just talking mild recommendations here -- there seems to be a
strong pediatric consensus that walkers are a BAD THING.  And I continue
to be astonished by the number of parents who say, "Our doctor told us
that we shouldn't use a walker, but we ignored him and we haven't had
any problems."

Lori,

Try to find a used one or borrow one from a friend to try it out before
shelling out the $30-50+ for a new one.  You will love the convenience and
your daughter will probably love the freedom, new perspective, etc. too, for
at least a few more months.

We used a second-hand walker and had no complaints - worked great on the
wood floors/tile and okay on the thick wool rug (just a bit slower). DO
BE PARANOID ABOUT USE NEAR ANY STAIRS, though. We didn't have any accidents
but that chance is the worst disadvantage to using the walker...

We used it from about 4-7 months, I think. Collin crawled at 7 mos. and
was an early walker at 7.5 months, and I'm sure the walker/jumper helped
to build the strength, but I think it was just a small contribution -
he was "ready" to go so he did...

Good luck,
-Cori 

    
    There was a group of pedi's who said cow milk isn't good for kids
    either.  My take on the so calle dexperts is that they'll probably
    change their minds on this again in other few years.  Sorry to sound
    the skeptic, but it has happened in the past.
    
    Our 3 kids loved the walker, I would reccomend it the child enjoys the
    mobility and you can get things done which need to get done.
    
    Mike

    Well sounds like I'll be shopping for a walker.  If I'm not lucky
    enough to find a used one, any suggestions on what brands worked for
    you.  I've heard one vote for the Fisher Price model...any others?
    
    ..Lori

    
    My daughter was able to use a walker on shag carpeting.  Don't be
    fooled that they can't go fast on thick carpeting.  A friend of mine's
    son went down the stairs in his walker (he was fine) because they
    assumed he couldn't move fast on carpeting.
    
    We had a GRACO and our daughter loved it.

    Like most things (cars/motorcycles/hair dryers/chain saws) a walker
    can be dangerous if not used correctly. Again, the 'experts' are trying
    to protect us from ourselves, since we are not responsible for our own
    actions anymore. Get hurt, sue. Most of the accidents that I've heard
    of involve a child going for an unintentional ride down the stairs.
    This is because a parent wasn't watching them every second. But, that
    is part of the responsibility. Sorry, enough venting!
    
    	Our son Adam hated both the walker and the jumper. It looked like
    he felt as though we were putting him in some kind of torture
    apparatus! He walked between 12 and 13 months. He was an average to
    good crawler, and he took to walking very well. Most kids I see that
    use a walker LOVE IT! That's great. Also, like others hve said, it
    gives the kid someplace else to be. I've seen kids with no hair on
    the back of thier heads because of too much time in the snuggly with
    thier heads lying back.
    
    		Frank

    I think Neil is referring to studies that supposedly say that walkers
    aren't good for hip joints, or for certain developmental reasons. The
    problem is, I have never actually seen any of these studies, (because
    we never had any interest in walkers), and I wonder if they are really
    so unanimous?
    
    If I remember, my pediatrician is a moderate on walkers, and did not
    recommend strongly against them. Neil, can you shed some light on the
    specifics?
    
    Lucy

	RE: the relationship between walkers and crawling

	I'm sure that if you used the walker as a babysitter, and
	never put the baby anywhere else, that would be the case.

	However, I'm sure most babies spend their time in lots of
	different places.  I know that Emily would not stay in any
	one place all day, and spends lots of time rolling around
	on the floor.

	Lori, as far as usage goes, I think the rule of thumb is
	once the baby can climb, the walker should be put away.

	I heard (contrary to previous replies) that most walker
	accidents occur from babies trying to climb out, and tipping
	the walker over on themselves.

	Karen

    Alex got her walker at about 5.5 months; I wouldn't have wanted her in
    one before that, since I didn't think her back and legs were strong
    enough until then.  Don't remember when we junked it (gave it to the
    daycare), but it was probably when she was more interested in it as a
    jungle-gym than as a vehicle!  I was never a proponent of
    jolly-jumpers, though, because it looked to me like they were suspended
    by the crotch.  *I* would not enjoy being suspended in that fashion!
    
    My NSHO is that the hip-dysplasia argument against walkers was probably
    predicated on the practice of parking the baby in the walker for
    extended periods of time, especially at an early age (3 months, 4
    months).  And I know "accidents will happen", but I really don't have
    much patience with parents who don't lock kitchen-to-the-basement
    doors, who don't use gates or other barriers to stairways,
    and who don't watch their kids like a hawk at all times.  If the
    doorbell or phone rings, *get the baby first*!  The phone will ring
    again if you miss it; the encyclopedia salesman will come back too :-}
    
    Leslie

    We have a walker that we rarely used.  The ped. recommended not using
    it for mobility because it discouraged crawling development.  If the
    child can be mobil in the walker why put out the effort to crawl.  We
    didn't have strong feelings one way or another, and really respected
    the Dr. so we went along with his advice.
    
    It was pretty easy to give up since Ashley didn't think it was very 
    much fun anyway.  She crawled at 5 months and walked at 9 month.  She
    did use the walker as a push toy as she learned to walk.  I wouldn't
    recommend this use, since the walker moves too quickly and the 
    baby tends to fall down as the walker gets away from them.  
    
    Just another perspective, I've seen many a happy baby and parents 
    that used walkers.
    
    Sharon

    
    Another thing I meant to mention about the Fisher Price model that I
    forgot yesterday, it also has setting for "walk" and "stand"...so you
    can lock it in place if they aren't mobile yet, or if you for some
    reason are trying to feed them while in it (if the high chair is being
    used by another child that day)...
    
    It is one of the higher priced ones (which I probably wouldn't of been
    able to afford myself)...we recieved ours at my baby shower.
    
    Good Luck,
    Chris
    

    I'm obviously in a minority, but we followed our pediatrician's advice
    and did not get a walker.
    
    We did this for the safety reason, the development reason and one that
    was a little more unique to us. We have an old house with varying
    levels of floors with different coverings (linoleum, rugs, tile, and
    hard wood) so I think it would have only been frustrating for her and
    us.  It's still a problem when she rides her tricycle in the house.
    
    She crawled by 7 months and walked at 10 months.
    
    judy

    We never considered a walker because our apartment is small and it
    would have been one more *&%$ piece of baby equipment under foot.
    
    I liked Heather's term "baby station". When Charlotte was nearly
    sitting up by herself, we used the Fisher Price jolly jumper to give
    her something new and different to do - she used it for a couple of
    months. I agree that it would probably be an uncomfortable way to
    suspend an adult, but babies are light, and in our case well padded
    with cloth diaper-plus-diaper wrap, and she and her brother both loved
    the jumper.  
    
    We also used to prop her in a sitting position on the living room
    rug against the sofa and she would sit there playing happily for
    long periods. Her attention span was much longer then than now...
    
    Lucy

    Both my kids used the walker and loved it.  One thing I did was to
    tie the walker to a solid piece of furniture, using a sturdy belt.
    This gave the kids (esepcially when they were real little) some
    mobility, but they weren't careening all over the place.  We saw to it
    that they had plenty of changes of scenery, ie., playpen, walker,
    floor, etc.  I did not notice any lack of development in either child's
    crawling or walking.  both crawled at around 7-8 months.  Hollis walked
    at barely 13 months; James got his sea legs at around 14-15 months.
    
    As another noter said, BE TOTALLY PARANOID.  Don't use a walker near
    stairs.  Don't use it in the kitchen.  Don't use it outside.  Be very
    watchful at all times.
    
    I don't think we are necessarily ignoring good, expert advice.  But
    these "experts" are not with our kids every day, and we are.  So who's
    the expert? :-)  MHO.

    Regarding what to buy:  I would check out resale shops for a
    second-hand walker in good condition.  Don't buy it unless it's
    in really good shape.  If you can borrow one for the time being, so
    much the better.

    The walker was a blessing for both my children.  They loved it.  I
    could set them in the walker and they could watch me do the dishes or
    what-ever.  The new upright viewpoint was a different then the crawing
    viewpoint.
    
    Alicia never crawled, she went right to walking.  Jessica crawled for a
    couple of months then walked.  Both girls were walking by 9 mos.  I
    don't believe the walker made any difference in their developments. 
    They had stong desires to stand and try to walk.  I don't think I could
    have stopped them from trying.
    
    I agree that you can't be too careful with walkers, however I think a  
    walking or crawling child could get into much more danger then a child 
    in a walker.  With walkers you have to put a gate on the down steps and 
    move anything dangerous in their reach. Once they start walking, crawling 
    you have to put gates on up and down steps, remove anything they can reach
    or climb up to, put locks on all cabinets, and keep all the older 
    children's toys off the floor, i.e., barbie doll shoes. I was much more 
    concerned about them once they became self mobile.
    
    Angie

    Our pedi was against the use of walkers from a safety perspective.  We
    readily agreed since our house is a split and not too big - i.e. hard
    to keep away from stairs.  We did use a jolly jumper (the Fisher Price
    model I think) and Sara ADORED that.  We would hang it from the
    bathroom doorway so she could watch me as I was getting ready in the
    morning.  It was great for both of us, but I would be reluctant to use for
    more than 30-45 minutes at a time and we only used it once a day.
      
    BTW Sara walked at 11 months, was "cruising" at 8 months.  I think she 
    crawled for about 2 weeks...
    

    
    We also used and loved the Jolly Jumper (again Fisher Price) with 
    Michael. We would hang it in the doorway between Kitchen to living
    room. It came in VERY handy at suppertime (probably the last time we've
    had a quiet meal!)
    
    He loved it!  used to cry when taking him out!
    
    

    I am in agreement with .26 and in the minority.
    
    I never used one and have a brand new one that I got at my shower
    that I never opened.  My pedi was dead set against me using it.
    
    Mitch crawled at 6 1/2 months and is walking...just turned 9 months.
    He has been standing since he was 7 mos.  I mean standing in the
    middle of the room without holding on to anything.
    
    If I used a walker, he might never have learned his balance so early.
    
    My pediatrician is a member of APA and is on a committee that is
    submitting a bill before congress to *ban* the sale of walkers in the 
    U.S.  based on safety and development reasons.  I believe they have 
    already submitted it.  This is how serious pedi's believe in their
    conviction of walkers.
    
    I know people swear by them and either you like them or you don't.
    I know they make the baby more mobile but doesn't that take the
    motivation away from them learning on their own that they can go
    places?
    
    Tough subject....Kristen
    
    
    
      
    
    
    
    

Patrick was born with dysplasic hips so walkers and Jolly Jumpers were 
absolutely forbidden by the orthopedist. He crawled and stood early but walked
late because of this condition. Now he's running all over the place tearing up 
the joint like all the other 20 month old kids. His muscle tone has gone from 
low to normal.

Still, I'm not in favor of walkers. It's a philosophical thing. I just see them
as a tool to push your childrens development with. What's the rush?

Chris

re: .33

>    I never used one and have a brand new one that I got at my shower that I
>    never opened.  

     Important point here.  Walkers (better designed and made ones, at least)
are expensive, and are popular shower gifts.  And many parents, like Kristen
don't want them.  So, even if it would take the "suprise" away, it's best to
ask whether the parents would use a walker or not before you give them one as
a gift.

>    If I used a walker, he might never have learned his balance so early.

>    I know they make the baby more mobile but doesn't that take the
>    motivation away from them learning on their own that they can go places?
 
     Possibly, maybe even probably, he might not have learned to balance
himself so early.  But I put myself in the camp that believes that it is not
particularly important whether a child learns to walk at 6 months or 18
months.  Our children both used a walker.  They are now 12 and 9.  Both walk
just fine, their balance is just fine, and they know they can go places on
their own.  Of what importance is it when they first began to walk?  If I
were convinced that walkers had a significant negative long term effect, I
might not be so inclined to leave it up to the parents.

.34>Still, I'm not in favor of walkers. It's a philosophical thing. I just
.34>see them as a tool to push your childrens development with. What's the 
.34>rush?

	It is interesting that two consecutive notes, entered by noters who 
don't favor them, have dramatically differing views.  .33 sees them as 
retarding development, so why use them?  .34 sees them as rushing 
development, so what's the rush?  Both are imo, completely valid views.  And 
also an indication to me that it's best to leave it up to the parents, 
absent a specific reason, such as .34.


<Flaming, political diatribe follows>
 
>    My pediatrician is a member of APA and is on a committee that is 
>    submitting a bill before congress to *ban* the sale of walkers in the
>    U.S.  based on safety and development reasons.  I believe they have
>    already submitted it.  This is how serious pedi's believe in their
>    conviction of walkers.
  
     Make that SOME pedis, a distorted sample, because they are on a
committee that has drafted and submitted a bill.  I would think it unlikely 
that a pedi who is either neutral or thinks walkers might even be useful 
would be on such a commmittee.  Several pedis have already been reference in 
this note as being neutral, and leaving it up to the parents.  It's also very 
hard to avoid reducio ad absurdum type arguments, like "what will we have 
next, Dr. Spock's group submitting legislation to make it illegal to give 
cow's milk to children?"   Banning bicycles?  It's also hard to avoid the 
temptation to ask why are the pedis picking on this issue, when there are 
far, far, more pressing issues that are not being adequately addressed?

Clay

    Wow...lots of great feedback in this note on walkers.  All the comments
    have really given me a lot of brain fuel to burn over this decision!
    
    For now, Chelsea has a pedi appoinment on Friday (more shots .. ):
    Since I highly value my pedi's opinion, I will bring this up with her.
    
    I'm also concerned about our condo being so small that having a walker
    would just have Chelsea bumping into walls and furniture.  She's trying
    really hard to crawl forward (5-1/2 months) and loves playing on the
    floor.  I think I will get a gate for her room and when it is baby
    proofed from top to bottom use this as an activity area for her while
    I get ready in the morning.
    
    I'm all for the Johnny Jumper!  Chelsea grows fonder of hers each day,
    we just bought it a week ago.  She usually just does 1/2 hour a day
    in it (evening), but the exercise is great and she really has lots of
    fun.
    
    ...Lori

    	Nope, never, never, never would I have one of those jolly jumpers
    in my house. I realize that they are very popular with babies and
    parents alike, however, the risk to hips and joints is just too great
    (especially with large babies) for me to ever consider them.

    				Wendy

<semi political comment follows>

Although I don't favor walkers, I totally disagree with the pedis who are trying
to ban them. Banning anything is a very drastic measure that should be used only
as a last resort to protect the entire public from great harm. Babies in walkers
don't fit into that catagory.

Leave it up to the parents.

Chris

    RE .35
    
    Interesting comments....
    
    You mentioned that it is not important whether a child walks at
    6 1/2 months or 15 months (something like that).
    
    If the child is meant and has the capability of walking at 6 1/2
    months, delaying his/her normal growth doesn't seem right.
    
    Some children walk later (sometimes because they are large and don't
    have the muscles yet to move around yet) but that is normal for them.
    Mitch is 95 % in lenghth and 50% in weight...Maybe my next one will
    progess slower.
    
    I realize that bottom line it may not mean anything when they are
    older how early they started walking, but if they have the desire...
    shouldn't they be allowed to grow/progess at their own rate?  I look at 
    walkers as possibly inhibiting that natural desire to learn what
    their body can do all by themselves.  
    
    Some people look at walkers as a way to help entertain their child while
    they do other things ....Mitch spent many hours sitting and standing,
    up and down and up and down...he amused himself.
    
    Mitch has done everything early...he sat up alone at 4 1/2 months.
    Had I used a walker, I may not have realized how much passion he has
    to learn to do things on his own now.
    
    As far as the bill being submitted around banning walkers, I will
    try to get the statistics on the number of children a year who
    die, are permanently paralyzed, and injured due to walkers.  I think
    this is more important issue than some people may realize.  To save
    one child is worth the time!
    
    I'm not trying to sway your opinion...again, either you like them
    or you don't...just giving my 2 cents. 
    
    Kristen
    
    

    I don't know if the use of a walker helped my daughter to walk, but it
    did give her a differnet perspective other than lying on her back or
    stomach or sitting in a carry seat. We put her in a walker at 5 months,
    at first she just sat there and played with toys. About 2 weeks after 
    that she started pushing herself backwards. What I meant about a
    different perspective was, she saw things differently,sitting up
    straight she was able to see more and it also strengthend her neck and
    back muscles. She started to walk at exactly 11 months. 
    
    So, to make a long story short, I feel the use of walkers are great,
    as long as you don't push your child to walk before he or she is ready.
    No matter if they are in a walker early or not, they will walk when
    they feel they are ready. 
    Sandy
    

re: .39

     I think a big part of our difference in viewpoint is the ages of our
children.  The farther away from something you get, the less passionate you
become.
     I don't think that there is some "magic moment" at which a child
suddenly becomes capable of walking.  I think that there is a range.  Using a
walker may cause the child to walk at the long end of that range, and not
having a walker might cause the child to walk at the short end of the range. 
In either case, that child is, to me, proceeding at its own pace.  I don't
think that "progressing at his own rate" means that a child will always
achieve the milestone at the short end of the range.
     As for the statistics around how many children are injured due to
walkers, until I see evidence otherwise, I believe that that statement should
really be "injured due to MISUSE of walkers."  I do not believe that walkers
are INHERENTLY dangerous.  I believe that they are dangerous if misued, such
as around stairs, or in a situation in which it is easy for a child to pull
them over, or if a child in a walker is unattended.  I also think that
whether something ought to be outright banned should include whether or not
there is some redeeming quality to the item.  It appears that pediatricians
don't.  But it also appears that many parents do.
     I guess my bottom line is this.  I don't believe that walkers should be
banned by force of law.  I believe that if you think you can get along easily
without one, you should.  I believe that if you see an advantage in getting
one, you should, and should not feel guilty about it, but that a child 
should spend a significant amount of time on the floor, crawling and the 
like.  I believe that if you get one, you should get one of modern design.  I 
think that the modern ones, of heavier construction and wider "wheelbases" 
are much less dangerous than the older ones.

Clay

    
    On the humorous side:  the only accident my daughter had with her's 
    was rolling over mom and dad's toes! (oh, and kitty's tail)
    
    Safety is definately an issue, and accidents can be prevented by taking
    the necessary precautions. 
    
    An old wives tale once said that walkers hasten(sp?) a childs
    walking...and that if you force them to stand too early it will make
    there legs bow and they ill not walk correctly in the future. (NOT!)
    
    
    Sandy 

    Both my sons used  a walker for 2 or 3 months.  They both crawled at
    5 1/2 months, and walked at 9 months.  (If walkers did slow their
    development, I must have superbabies!)  Max was creeping at 3 1/2
    months - no kidding!  He didn't use his legs at all, he just dragged
    himself forward with his arms.  He looked like a man searching for
    water in the desert.  They both WANTED to be mobile, and nothing
    could stop them.  The walker was at first just a chair, then a 
    support for standing upright.  It wasn't used too much for walking.
    
    I cannot imagine that walkers are evil enough to be banned.  Even
    if there are chidren hurt by the misuse of walkers, look at the 
    number of frightening stroller accidents there are.  Children lose
    fingers in folding strollers!  Should strollers be banned?
    
    I know next to nothing about the problems walkers might cause to 
    joint development.  Though I can see where this could be a problem,
    none of the many people I know who use walkers have experienced
    this problem, nor have I heard any stories second-hand.  (I have
    heard of horror stories involving the afore-mentioned strollers,
    and cribs, and swings, and venetian blind cords, and lots of
    other objects.) 
    
    Well, my kids have graduated beyond walkers now.
    

    My sister is a physical therapist and her only advice was to make sure
    that the child was not dangling or on their toes all the time.  She
    said to make sure that the walker is height adjustable.  She
    specifically said NO to Jolly Jumpers because those are definately not
    good for the legs, feet and hips.  She gave some specific reasons which
    I don't remember right now but basically it is because a baby cannot
    control their jump and how they land.
    
    I wasn't hot on the idea of getting a walker but my M-I-L wanted to get
    us one.  I rejected the first one because you couldn't adjust the
    height but the second one got light usage as a walker.  We actually
    used it more as a snack tray when my daughter got older because it was 
    the perfect height.  (Uh-oh, misuse of baby equipement!!!!  Call the
    pedi police ;-))
    
    I would suggest going with which ever way you feel most comfortable and
    use common sense to see which is more appropriate for you and your
    baby.  This can be said of a lot of other baby equipement too, babies 
    don't have to have them, but if it works for you...

    Well I took Chelsea for her 5-1/2 month checkup on Friday and quizzed
    the pedi on the subject of walkers.  She said Chelsea was such an
    active baby that she couldn't see her using it more then a couple of
    months.  We talked about other ways of "Creative Caging" in regards
    to my need in having a little bit of time to get ready in the morning.
    Also, because our condo is so small, I believe Chelsea would just get
    frustrated when she does become mobile in it...boucing off furniture
    and walls.
    
    So we baby proofed her room from floor to ceiling....added a gate to
    fit across the double doors and now she has a huge play pen!  I also
    put up the Graco Play Pen in the living room, so she would get use
    to playing with her toys in there.
    
    We talked about the Jolly Jumper and she had no problem with it as long
    as Chelsea holds her head up and has good leg support...don't let her
    feet dangle a good distance from the floor.  She also felt that we
    should limit the time in the Jolly Jumper to no more then 1/2 hour
    at-a-time and no more then twice a day.  We talked about injury to
    the back, legs, and hips....and she said as long as they were used
    correctly (just like walkers...height adjusted, etc.) that there is
    no danger or injury to the child...and as mentioned before that the
    child is capable of being in a jumper/walker...holding head up, etc.
    
    So bottom line for us is we will pass on the walker...not because I
    feel there dangerous or anything, just cuz it's a space issue in our
    small condo...and we will keep her jumping in her johnny for a couple
    more months!
    
    ..Lori

    
    Just put our walker away because Victoria's favorite pastime was
    climbing in and out of it or sitting on the tray. She is almost
    11 months and I think she is Houdini reincarnated.  Otherwise
    walkers are like everything else, too muchof it and no supervision
    makes it not good....
    
    

	Lori,

	Sounds like you made a well-informed choice!   Your pedi's
	advice for the jumper was very similar to the advice
	given in "What to Expect the First Year" with regard to 
	walkers.  We now have Emily limited to 1/2 hour in the walker
	at a time, no more than twice a day.  She doesn't use the
	walker at all during the day, when she's at my mother's.  There,
	she spends most of the day on the floor.

	On to the next big decision ... :-)

    For those of you who use Jolly Jumpers here's a story for you. My
    girlfriend has a 4 month old who use to use the jolly jumper till one
    day when she was in the kitchen and he was in the jolly jumper in the 
    kitchen doorway. John was having a wonderful time jumping around till
    she heard this scream come from him. It seems that he was unable to 
    control the amount of bouncing he was doing and DISLOCATED HIS HIP !!
    
    He is not a heavy baby so weight had nothing to do with it. Sometimes
    the babies may just too bouncey for their own good. So be watchful.
    
    She didn't want to use a walker cause she thought that he might get
    hurt. Now she has second thoughts about them. 
    
    
    

    I think you hit on a key observation...if the baby is overly bouncy in
    the jumper, I think I would reconsider using it.  Chelsea is actually
    a pretty mellow bouncer and enjoys playing with her toys on the tray
    and sitting up.  I also wonder if 4 months isn't a little bit young
    to be in a jumper, but I guess it all depends on the child.  Chelsea
    was very strong on her legs and could hold her head up at 4 months, but
    I still wouldn't have bought one for her yet.
    
    Bottom line for me is that whether it be walkers or jumpers they all
    need close parental supervision and evaluation if the child is suited
    for this kind of activity.
    
    ...Lori

    
    We put Michaels Jolly Jumper away when he started going to "crazy"
    in it. Don't exactly remember what age he was, but I do remember
    him starting to make mom VERY nervous and he came "too close for
    comfort" for me.
    
    I think you can determine when it should be put away just by watching
    them.
    
    Chris
    

    Sorry to be late in joining this discussion...
    
    When we mentioned to our pediatrician that our son loved his
    walker he said "his WHAT?!? - NONONONONONONO, they are not safe.
    In this practice, we see 2-3 skull fractures A YEAR from children
    sailing down stairs in them.  If you insist on using one, by all
    means take the wheels off, that's the only way to make them safe."
    
    That was enough warning for us to be VERY careful about stairs!
    
    SO - we did use the walker, but only on the 1st floor, and only with
    the basement door locked (and above the reach of our oldest child).
    Never seemed to hamper either child's ability to walk (they each
    walked around 10 months).
                                                                               
                                         Joyce

Has anyone used the new Exersaucer ("the walker alternative") by
Evenflo?  I believe its been out for only seven months.

We received one as a gift, and we'd like to hear of any experiences,
good or bad, with it.

Thanks,
Maureen

>Has anyone used the new Exersaucer ("the walker alternative") by
>Evenflo?  I believe its been out for only seven months.

We got my daughter one for Christmas when she was 6 months old.  She loves
it.  She bounces like a maniac in it and loves to twirl around.  We talked
to her doctor about it and he had no problem with her using it.  I don't
like to leave her in it too long because it hurts *my* head to watch her 
bounce so much.  She doesn't cruise or even crawl (*hates* being on her
stomach) but I don't think that has anything to do with the exersaucer.
I am going to take her out at 10 months (per the doctor's advice) so it
doesn't hamper her walking development.  She loves to be standing up and
this enables her to do that without us holding her fingers.  The only
thing I do wonder about is the fact that she now likes to bounce constantly
(while we are holding her, in her high chair, while she is standing up
holding onto to us...) and I wonder if she would be doing this if she
hadn't been using it.

My mother went out and bought the "baby treadmill" which is similar in
design except that she can walk in place.  She has only used it once and
she used it to twirl around and bounce! 

-- Nisha

    RE: .52
    
    We have been using the Exersaucer for about 2 months now and my son
    loves it.  He has Down's syndrome and needs help with his motor
    development, and it was actually recommended by his Early Intervention
    co-ordinator.  It gives them the benefits of a walker without all the
    dangers, since they can't go anywhere.  It has 3 feet to keep it
    stable or you can fold them in and it sort of wobbles around when they
    move.  This is great fun to watch as it really looks a bit silly.
    I've seen another version of this that has the seat with 4 fold-away
    legs, but it is priced a little higher and didn't look quite as
    durable in my opinion.  The only plus I could see was that it was
    more portable.  The Exersaucer has 3 height positions as well, so
    it can be used for a fair amount of time before they'll outgrow it.
    I'd recommend it.
    
    Sharon

    
    I love our Exersaucer.  In fact of all the different places Katie hangs
    out (jumper, swing, bouncie chair, high chair, playpen, floor), I'd
    have to rate the Exersaucer as her favorite spot.
    
    We have an Exersaucer at home and Katie loves it.  It is disc shaped on
    the bottom but has legs also for stability.  We started putting Katie
    in hers at about 4 months and she loved it.  When she was younger we
    used it with the legs down and rolled up a blanket to put behind her
    back.
    
    Once we started putting her in it, she began to show an interest in her
    toys.  The saucer has a tray around it and we loaded it up with her
    toys.  She started picking them up and inspecting them and putting them
    in her mouth, which she didn't do much of when lying on the floor.  It
    also didn't take her much time to realize that she could spin around
    and look at any part of the room she wanted to.
    
    Katie is now 6 months old and still loves it.  She's good for about 30
    minutes in it, before she has to move on to the next activity.  We now
    use it on the second peg (I believe there are three height adjustments)
    and no longer use the legs for stability.
    
    Three of the women in my daughter's playgroup have since bought them
    for their babies.  Each began using theirs at a different time however. 
    It really depends on the back and neck strength of your baby.  All the
    babies loved them.  Even my daycare provider purchased one and she
    swears by it.  Her six month old son is creeping now and she just plops
    one in the saucer when she has to deal with the other's needs.  They
    are  much happier in there than in the playpen.
    
    So, as you can tell, we really like ours. 
    
    Kristen

    Wow!  You guys have sold me.  Angeline is already six months,
    but started sitting in her walker about two weeks ago.  She
    gets bored real fast in it though and hasn't quite gotten the
    hang of moving it yet.
    
    What are we talking for a price on these things?
    					cj *->

Another yes vote...  Our son loved it.  He'd go nuts jumping in it (and 
yelling at the same time :-)  I think it was good exercise.

But as he got more mobil on his own (about 8 or 9 months), he started to like 
it less and less.  At about 11 months we stopped using it entirely.

And yes, at first he'd like to jump up and down in our laps (with out support),
but that too has dropped off.

I'd definitely use it again...  I don't think it has hampered his mobility
at all.  The second they realize they can be mobil, they won't be happy in
it anyway...

Dan

    I've seen them priced anywhere from $45 to $65.  I believe the lower
    price was on sale at Walmart and the highest price was in a catalog.
    I've seen them at Toys R Us, Service Merchandise and Norms, all priced
    in between.
    
    Kristen

    Boy.  I guess my next move would be to put in a WANTED: ad
    for a second hand one!  :-)
    						cj *->