Conference moira::parenting

    This happened to my best friend.  She'd go for her monthly checkups and
    they'd tell her that she measured smaller than normal.  In the meantime
    she was gaining weight just fine and the baby was moving around quite
    happily.  Around her 7th month they did an ultrasound to find out why
    and it turned out that she just didn't have a lot of amniotic fluid. 
    It didn't affect the baby at all, it just caused her not to show alot.
    She went on to deliver a very healthy 6 1/2 lb girl who's growing like
    a weed.
    
    Susan

    This sounds very familiar...
    
    	We were told that my wife had a lower (the low side of normal)
    amount of amniotic fluid with our first child. This did prevent growth
    of the fetus later on. There just wasn't enough room for him. He was
    born full term at 3.5 pounds. He was very healthy, and had no problems.
    The low amniotic fluid was a symptom of some other problem that they
    still do not know to this day. Ellen is 6 months pregnant with our
    second, and it is looking the same way. Her Ob/Gyn has suggested
    her to take one childeren's asprin (the little pink chewables) a day.
    He said that it has been known to help increase the amniotic fluid
    level. For the life of me, I can't IMAGINE the connection???? They
    are keeping a VERY close eye on here this time around, also. We're
    hoping for a little bigger package this time. But, hey, our first
    who is now 2+ is a ball of fire. Very healthy and smart (but isn't
    everyone's kids?)  8^)
    
    	Best wishes to you!
    
    Frank

    >Her Ob/Gyn has suggested
    >her to take one childeren's asprin (the little pink chewables) a day.
    >He said that it has been known to help increase the amniotic fluid
    >level. For the life of me, I can't IMAGINE the connection???? 
    
    It probably works for the exact reason that expectant mothers are
    told not to take aspirin, especially in the last trimester.
    
    Aspirin acts as an anti-coagulant which may cause bleeding or
    hemmorrage during delivery (maybe even before).  Since this is
    probably a rare occurance, your doctor probably felt the risk
    of taking aspirin (vs. low amniotic fluid levels), was very low.
    
    Jodi-

    I just found this note, and can only assume that everything turned out
    all right for the anon basenoter.  This note struck a note of terror in
    me.  The reason is that my first pregnancy ended in an in-utero death
    due to my lack of amniotic fluid, the cord became pinched between the
    baby and the wall of the uterus.
    
    AJ was almost another in-utero demise, but thanks to an alert OB
    assistant, who saw the lack of amniotic fluid and recognized that we
    had a REAL problem.  We were able to successfully deliver him by
    C-section (semi-emergency type of C).  The OB told me he likely would
    NOT HAVE lived another 24 - 48 hours with the lack of fluid surrounding
    him.  By the way, the lack of amniotic fluid does have and "official"
    name, thanks to AJ visiting nurse.  Can you say Ogliohydramitus?  It is
    a latin word meaning lack of (oglio) fluid (hydramitus).  The opposite
    it Poly-hydramitus, which is more common or the babies born with their
    heads swollen from too much fluid around the brain.
    
    Could the anon basenoter post an update, I'll be waiting and praying.
    
    Lyn

The following is an update from the anonymous basenoter.
    
    Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod
    
    --------------------------------------

Sorry for the delay in updating the note--fortunately it has a happy ending.

Brigham & Women's hospital did 2 ultrasounds over 4 weeks, and in their 
opinion, the fluid was 'normal'.  One doctor did acknowledge that she 
might call it 'low normal', but still within the normal range.  Since
its not scientific, or measurable, its really just an opinion and timing
issue (the fluid ebbs & flows so much, different ultrasounds show it 
at different levels, etc).  I did trust the Boston opinion, though, since
they see many problem cases, and have a trained eye for these kinds of
things.  I was not upset that the Nashua person pointed it out, however.

The baby was born 3 weeks early, but in good health.

    To the basenoter, what a great happy ending!
    
    Congratulation!!!
    
    Lyn and AJ

    The following is a series of replies on the subject of decreased
    amniotic fluid.  Several notes may discuss other topics such as morning
    sickness.  Please continue these in the appropriate topic.
    
    Thanks,
    Laura
    co-mod
    
================================================================================
Note 55.63        Women's Health/Pregnancy & Childbirth-related         63 of 80
JULIET::TOWERS_MI                                    20 lines  24-MAR-1993 15:40
                            -< LOW AMNIOTIC FLUID >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just finished my 33rd week and after my ultrasound yesterday I was
    told that my amniotic fluid was 8.2 and that they would be checking me
    weekly for a non stress test and two weeks for another amnio.  I asked
    the doctor about this.  He seemed blase when he said "Well if it gets
    lower we will have to consider taking the baby".  That to me sound like
    something not exactly normal and of at least some concern. But then I
    have been getting into arguments with this guy since I asked him his
    leave policy a month ago and was told he prefers his patients to work
    up to their delivery date.  He also does not see a concern for the fact
    that my work is stressful, Digital is stressful and my husband and I
    are also caring for our 2.5 year old plus two elderly parents; one with
    Alhzeimers, one with Parkinsons.  
    
    Has anyone had this experience?  I have been trying to read up on this
    but have seen everything from bed rest to "no big deal" if you are far
    enough along.
    
    Thanks
    
    Michelle
================================================================================
Note 55.64        Women's Health/Pregnancy & Childbirth-related         64 of 80
CSC32::M_EVANS "hate is STILL not a family value"    16 lines  24-MAR-1993 16:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michelle,
    
    I have had two friend that have been through this.  In one case the
    amniotic fluid came back up to normal levels a week later, in the other
    case, the baby was post-term and they induced.  
    
    Basically the advice they gave the friend whose amniotic fluid dropped
    at 34 weeks to rest as much as possible and drink LOTS of water (10-12
    glasses/day).  
    
    I can sympathise with your stress.  This pregancy has also had the
    experience of my oldest going to college, my sister having seizures
    over Christmas, and my mother having emergency surgery in January(and
    me the only kid in town).  I won't even discuss work.
    
    Meg  
================================================================================
Note 55.65        Women's Health/Pregnancy & Childbirth-related         65 of 80
MEMIT::GIUNTA                                        20 lines  25-MAR-1993 09:03
                      -< premature birth has some risks >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know there are other noters in here who have had low amniotic fluid, and
can give you more specifics than I can, but I thought I'd address the 
possibility of the early delivery.  If your fluid remains low, they will
take the baby (either induced delivery or C-section) if they feel that the
level is so low that the baby will have a better chance outside the womb.
At 33 weeks, you are fairly far along, and delivering now may cause some
problems for the baby, but most likely there will be no long term effects.
In fact, I delivered my twins at 28 weeks, and they're doing fine now.  You
might want to explore the risks of pre-term birth to give yourself more 
information about what might happen just in case.  I found the doctors'
descriptions of the risks to my babies to be terrifying because I didn't
have a basis from which to work.   But as time passed and I became more
educated on the medical things, I found it much easier to deal with.  

Please feel free to call or send me mail if you want to talk about it.  And
I'm not the only one in here who's got premature babies, so there's a 
wealth of knowledge in here that may help to address your fears.

Cathy
DTN 223-0314

    
    
    
    I know that this note is on decreased amniotic fluid, but what would
    increased amniotic fluid mean? My wife (Sandra) went in for a regular 
    checkup today (6 months pregnant), and the doctor wants to do another
    sonogram. He said that she might have "excess anmiotic fluid". 
    When pressed as to what "excess amniotic fluid" could be caused by, 
    he replied with "lot's of women who have excess amniotic fluid deliver
    babies that are perfectly healthy". (Thanks a lot for the in depth
    explanation). Anyway, we're a bit worried with this evasive
    explanation, and I wondered if any of you know what it means. 
    You can reply here or directly to me
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Doug
    decatl::hood
      

    Doug,
    
    I was told the same thing after having an ultrasound done at 
    around six months. I was also told that my baby's abdomen looked 
    larger than it should be.  Being my first pregnancy, I went
    nuts with the news. Another ultrasound was scheduled revealing
    the same prognosis. I wasn't given any other clear explaination,
    so I sat around and worried for the next two months. I delivered
    a healthy 8� pound daughter at 36 weeks.  
    
    The only thing abnormally large on Amber at birth, were her 
    cute chipmunk cheeks!
    
    Jodi-

    Something similar happened to me.  When I was about 7 months along, the
    Dr send me for an ultrasound to rule out twins because I was measuring
    big.  After it was done, and the results looked at, they said I had a
    lot of fluid and that they *thought* there was something abnormal with
    one of Russell's kidneys.  Being my first, I went ballistic.  They sent
    me to Boston to have a specialist do another ultrasound.  As it turned
    out there were 2 visiting Dr's there along with the specialist.  They
    all sat there looking at the screen saying "Why are you here? He's
    perfectly normal.  You just have extra fluid".

    When I grilled my Dr at my next appointment, his only explanation was
    that some women produce extra fluid.  Rarely this is a sign of trouble. 
    More often it is just what your body produces naturally.  Russell was
    born 2 weeks late after being induced.  He was a very healthy 10lb+
    baby.  

    marianne

with our first child.  the dr called it polyhydramnios (lots o' water).
however, the doctor seemed more concerned over it than  the last few
have indicated their doctors were.  my wife had many many ultrasounds 
to the point of becoming addicted to them!  with our second she wanted
an ultrasound monthly.  anyway, she was seen by several specialists,
the most nerve wracking the heart specialist.  everything turned out
well.  the doctor did a c-section as she felt the baby was too big.
well, when she relieved the pressure with her incision, there was
a water spout Moby Dick would have been proud of!  the baby turned
out to be 8 - 15.  the doctor couldn't believe she was so small!
she took the baby and weighed her herself!  made me think she (the
doctor) erred on the side of caution.  the section probably wasn't
necessary.  oh well, better safe than sorry.  my wife delivered our
second naturally ... 8 - 6.  our third is due in a few weeks.  my wife
is large again.  like the doctors said...some women produce extra
fluid.  good luck! and have fun!

    This was something I was checked for because the OB from hell suspected
    Gestational Diabetes.  (The OB from hell and her GD paranoia is another 
    story).  Apparently high fluid is often associated with GD.  Mine was
    at a normal level (as was my glucose)  
    
    Not to frighten you, but polyhydramnious is sometimes associated with
    fetal kidney problems, as well as Gestational Diabetes.  This is a very
    rare occurance and in most cases, as others here have told you, there
    really isn't a problem.
    
    Meg 

meg,

we called our OB Dr. 'Doom and Gloom'.  She has since moved on.
Our experience with male OB's *seems* to indicate a more layed
back approach.  Is this a gross generalization?  Don't mean
to offend nor start a rathole!

    I actually think part of my problem was that it was her first year out
    of residency, and she must have been in a war-zone med center.  The
    other problem was that she knew I was planning a homebirth, so
    attempting to scare me out of it seemed to be her only way to get
    satisfaction.
    
    Meg

    I had lots o' water with both mine, but my doctor was not concerned
    about GD - my sugar tests were always normal.  I do remember him asking
    me when I was there for labor if my water broke.  I told him is wasn't
    a gusher like the first pregnancy, but I've been leaking...he poked the
    old bag and literally got soaked!!!  He then said he should have done
    it in the shower!!!  Took them a while to clean it all up!
    
    -sandy
    

    
    
    
    re: last few. She had an ultrasound last Friday, all is well. It's
    just going to be another big baby. 
    
    
    doug
    

    That is great news.
    
    Meg

    I know this is late, and probably if I check the birth announcements
    this baby has been born, and probably healthy but here's my input...
    
    I had a lack of amniotic fluid, called ogliohydramitus.  My first one
    was a still birth due to the lack of fluid, my son was delivered 9
    weeks early by a semi emergency c-section due to the first fetal
    demise.  My son had several kidney, bladder and bowel defects, which
    were never really atributed to the lack of amniotic fluid.  Hid bladder
    was very full at birth, and became paralized and had to be emptied by
    having the doctor insert a catheter directly into the bladder, by
    inserting a needle attached to a tube just above pubic bone to drain
    his bladder.  18 days after his birth he was in the hospital in a
    totally septic state, because of the bacteria in the urine that was
    held in his bladder so long.  His ultra sound showed his full bladder,
    which was part of the decisionmaker on having him early.  The doctor
    also didn't want to have me loose another baby in utero.
    
    I know this is rambling, but one of the first questions I asked both
    the doctor and the visiting nurse too was what had caused this.  (as
    every mother has guilt I thought it was something I had done)  My
    condition is because the baby aparently does urinate in utero, and
    because he hadn't I lacked fluid.  Sounds wierd but I have nothing else
    to base it on.  The nurse also said that the opposite condition is the
    Polyhydramitus, or too much fluid.  She didn't say anything about
    kidney problems, but rather these baby tend to have large heads, and
    suggested it causes hydrocepholis, which is a neurological defect and
    requires  some extreme cases to need immediate surgery to shunt the
    fluid away from the brain using a tube.
    
    THis is not a scare tactic, but I am only relaying information passed
    on to me by a visiting nurse.
    
    I hope everyone of you have wonderful healthy babies!
    Lyn

re 367.18 

> because the baby aparently does urinate in utero, and

My waters broke at 33 weeks & I spent a week in hospital prior to having a 
caesar to deliver my son. I expressed my concern to my ob about "drying out" 
and was told that not only does the baby's urine contribute to the amniotic 
fluid, more flid is also produced by the mother. (After spending a week 
"leaking" I can attest to that!)

I got a call from my close friend yesterday - she's 21 weeks along and last week
had gone for an ultrasound.  She had been so excited and was considering finding
out the sex of the baby, but..

At the ultrasound, they told her that she has very little amniotic fluid and
that they can't really see the baby.  But at the same time, they were able to
tell that one of the kidneys is really enlarged and possibly damaged beyond
repair.  They ran a series of tests..they are going to check and see if the
second kidney is functional.  According to what they told her, an enlarged
kidney is often the result of chromosomal disorder..and so they are also testing
for other abnormalities like Down's Syndrome.  She should have these results in
the next week.

In a single day, her life has turned upside down.  She was so happy when she got
pregnant ( they had been trying for a while without success).  It was really
hard talking to her yesterday...she and her husband are likely to face a really
tough decision in the next couple of weeks.

Can anyone give me more information on this?  Apparently, the doctor told her
that if one kidney is fine, the baby could survive and be perfectly alright. 
But since they can't see the baby, they have no way of telling if everything is
normal...  Also, if both kidneys are damaged, does the baby realistically have
any chance?  Also, how accurately can they diagnosize these chromosomal
abnormalities?  She is concerned because they told her that even if they find
one kidney to be functional and that there are no chromosomal abnormalities
right now, it is not guaranteed that the baby has not been affected in some way..

Thanks for any help/info.  I felt miserable sitting 2000 miles away talking to
her, trying to console her while not knowing "WHY"!  "Why does this have to
happen??"

I am so sorry for your friend's situation. I don't have much by way of
suggestion. Just be there to listen if she needs to talk. I've had a 
couple of miscarriages  - the first time was very early and I was't aware
that I'd was pregnant yet, the second one though - I'd gone in happy for
the ultrasound and then found out there was no heartbeat. It was very 
hard, and basically took months and months to fully get over the grief.
On the other hand, my sister went through all kind's of scares and tests
over her second child - first while she was pregnant (tests indicated 
spina bifida) and then when the baby was just a few weeks old the area above
her lips would turn bluish and heart problems were suspected. The baby just had 
her 1st birthday a month ago and is absolutely fine - walking and talking
and happy. I hope your friend's baby turns out to be fine.

Leslie

This is just getting to be more unbelievable..

I read through this string of notes, a lot of stuff on the web and spoke to my
friend last Tues.  She had heard back from the doctor saying the kidney system
was indeed functional and all the results were normal.  With all this, she was
slowly beginning to think positive...yes, there might be problems, but nothing
very drastic!  I spoke to her Wednesday and she was definitely thinking positive!

Yesterday I got a call from her...her doctor left her a message on sat asking
her to call back immediately.  Since she and husband didn't get the message till
late sat night, they agonized all sat night and finally called the doctor back
yesterday morning. The doctor told her that she was very sorry..but she made a
mistake in reading the test results on Tuesday.  Apparently, the levels of
sugar, sodium etc are very high, indicating that the kidney system is not
functional !!!

How on earth can one make such a big mistake?  My friend sounded totally out of
it last night...like she didn;'t know what to believe!  She is supposed to go in
for another ultrasound this morning, but she has given up hope on everything. 
This has been an emotional see-saw for her and it's just too much to take!

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent!  Does anyone know of a good medical journal
kind of site on the web?  I'd like to read up on this ..

Thanks.