Conference moira::parenting

    Can't share experiences, Jim, but can and will offer prayers,
    support, positive thoughts, etc.  I believe a similar experience
    was discused in Vol. 2 -- regardless, it's still difficult...
    
    In thought,
    Kate

    re: .0
    
    >In spite of all the counseling and education you try to give them, it
    >happens.
    
    >Neither is planning to
    >live as a family regardless of her decision.
    
    Jim, your son did learn something.  That's one of the smartest
    decisions they could have made.
    
    Hang in there,
    
    Bob
    

    I had a girlfriend who went through this in high school.  My only 
    suggestion, think before you speak to them, and becareful what you say.
    It could come back to haunt you years later.  Her parents said some
    mighty awful things, things that took a long time to heal.   Now, she
    is a successful accountant, and her son is doing wonderfully.  Today,
    her parents are very proud of her, and love her son dearly. 
    
     

    re -.2
    
    >>In spite of all the counseling and education you try to give them, it
    >>happens.
    
    >>Neither is planning to
    >>live as a family regardless of her decision.
    
    >Jim, your son did learn something.  That's one of the smartest
    >decisions they could have made.
    
    The operative word in my original note is "planning".  Yes, he does
    seem to have the right attitude and is rightfully concerned, but while
    they don't plan to live together, there are some forces that might
    change that.
    
    First of all, today they spend all their spare time together.  I warned
    him about this long ago and he said he understood the risk of them not
    having lives separate of each other (he does have a band, work and
    school, but she has nothing else).  If she keeps the child, there will
    be a very strong urge for them to live together, since he will begin
    bonding with the child and if for no other reason, he will want to
    protect his child from having another adult male influence.
    
    Secondly, she is what I would describe as a dependent.  She has no
    visible means of support (ie, job), has a poor work history, is 20 yrs
    old and has just gone back to high school as a senior to try to finish
    (which will probably not happen now), her mother is planning on moving
    out of the country and leaving her grown kids here, and as implied
    above, seems to lean very heavily on my son for emotional support and
    companionship (he's 17 yrs old).  So if they don't live together, and
    her mother does leave the country, I have no idea where she will be
    living.
    
    re -.1
        
    >I had a girlfriend who went through this in high school.  My only 
    >suggestion, think before you speak to them, and becareful what you say.
    >It could come back to haunt you years later.  Her parents said some
    >mighty awful things, things that took a long time to heal.   Now, she
    >is a successful accountant, and her son is doing wonderfully.  Today,
    >her parents are very proud of her, and love her son dearly. 
   
    Yes, you have a very good point.  I want the four of us to sit down and
    talk but I need to be very careful about what is said and the message
    we leave them with.  I want to leave them with the message that we'll
    emotionally support what ever decision they make but at the same time,
    tell them the potential impact to their lives.  I also would like to
    tell them that my opinion is that they should give the child up for
    adoption but I don't know if I should say that.  I probably won't have
    to come right out and say it, though.  
    
    The bottom line is that it's her decision regarding what she does with
    the baby but her decision will directly affect my family (potentially
    for the rest of our lives).
    
    Having a baby should be such a positive thing.  It's such a shame that
    there's such a negative cast over the event.
    
    Jim

Not to start a rathole, but it is not just the girl's decision about what to
do with the child.  If she keeps the child, your son will be paying child
support for the next 18 years.  He is the father.  He admits this, much to
his credit.  He should have some say in what happens to the child.

Even if they do stay together, it does not have to totally ruin their lives.
He can still go to college, with them living in a dorm.  It adds alot to the
pressures of college, and probably takes alot away from the college
experience for him, but it can be done.

I would agree that it would seem better to put the child up for adoption
rather than have them keep it (and possibly feel they should get married
as a result).

I agree that it is a shame a child is coming in such a negative environment.
Children should be a joy to receive and have, not a burden.

Ed..

Oops.  I meant with them living in an apartment, not in a dorm.

Ed..

I give you and your son infinite amounts of praise for dealing with this
situation in an open and supportive manner.

It is very important for your son and his girlfriend to know that they both
have a support system for whatever decision she/they make.  I think too
that it is important that you provide the support they need to make their
own decisions rather than telling them what you want that decision to be
(unless of course they ask you).

It seems sad that her mother is moving away.  That puts an awful
lot of pressure on your son to provide for all of her emotional needs,
which it sounds like he's been doing anyway.  He's a bit young to be a
parent to a baby, and to a 20-year-old too.  I hope he is able to continue
his education and go on to college, as that would be the best chance for a
shot at life, especially if he ends up needing to support a child.  For him
to give up on his future would be a shame!

Whatever the reason the girl is unable to hold down a job, or was unable to
finish high school, if you have any influence with her I would urge you to
encourage her to finish school and get as good an education as she can as
well.  Being pregnant need not prevent her from finishing her senior year,
although it may certainly interrupt it for a time (I don't know the
timeframes here).

I would strongly urge you to encourage your son and his girlfriend to seek
counseling as they will both need help in sorting out all the emotions and
stress they are and will continue to experience (regardless of whether or
not they keep the baby or terminate the pregnancy, if that is an option for
them) -these decisions will affect them for a very long time!

Best wishes to you and your family, and to your son's girlfriend.

~C

<The author writes, "I would like this posted anonomously to note 361.">

Jim,

I think you can express your wish as to the outcome of the situation
if you do it with tact and love.

I got pregnant and my dad told me he would stand by me in whatever
decision I made.  He also told me in no uncertain terms that he thought
it would be best to have an abortion.  He explained his point of view 
as I was young enough to get out of the relationship I was in (which
hadn't been going very nicely) and start a whole new life and have the 
things I should get out of life, but were I to have this child I would 
be tied to this man forever.  He told me how much he loved me and that
he wanted me to have a full happy life not a struggling existence.  

When I look at my beautiful daughter that may not have been born I don't
hold any resentment against my dad....I love him for caring enough to 
think of me and only me.  He is the most wonderful dad and granddad ever.
I think it has brought me alot closer to my parents having gone thru it.

***I know it involves your son's future too...but I really think it's his 
girlfriends choice, my boyfriend wanted an abortion too, but I couldn't.

Maybe you should mention this to your son and his girlfriend :

Enfemil (baby formula) is $8.50 for 1 lb.  My daughter, at 9 months of age,
finishes 2 lbs per week.  The cereal, vegies, and fruit (from a jar) she 
eats cost about $3 per day.  Diapers are about $10 for 30 (large).  She goes
through 1.5 bag per week.  Only for food, formula, and diapers, it's $53 a 
week for us.  Then you have to clothes the baby.  We shop at Calvert's which 
is a bargain basement type of store.  The PJs/outfits she wears are about 
$15-$20 each.  And you need to get a couple because of the spitups, leaks 
from the diaper.  Then you have to take the baby to the doctors.  These little
people do get sick quite often, it seems we have been over the pedi's office
every week since she was 4 months old.  It's $5 per visit for us.  Then there
is the cost of babysitting if your son and his girlfriend both attend school.
I pay $4 per hour which is $200 a week for us.  Then there is the one-time 
cost for the crib, carseat, stroller, highchair.  The list goes on and on.  
It's very costly to raise a little one these days.  I was very surprised how 
expensive baby things are.  Not to mention the expenses for the child birth (
I hope she has health insurance).  I don't know how single Mothers manage to
survive, we were/are very overwhelmed emontionally, physically, and financially
by the arrival of our little one.  It will be a couple very rough years if 
they decide to raise the child themself.

Best wishes.

My brother's girlfriend became pregnant when she was 17 (last year of school) 
and he was 18 (first year of college).  I come from a very Catholic community
where the only coice was adoption or marriage.  They got married, my brother
left school and got a job.  Both sets of parents were rather poor so there
was no question of supporting them through college but everybody pitched in
to set them up in an apartment with whatever they had.

Certainly it changed my brother's life but he succeeded and probably made as
good a profession as he would have had he finished college (which he wasn't
really that interested in).  The marriage didn't last but he kept his daughter
and raised her to the very best of his ability and loved her to the best of
his ability too.

Not that this is always the best solution but I think the important thing is
a supportive infrastructure around the couple that allows them to make a 
choice and then helps them to live with it.  If they choose to place the child
for adoption, they will need support to deal with the emotions and feelings 
that generates.  If the mother decides to keep the child, they both need help
to see how that can work.  If they decide to marry or share a home, they need
to understand the consequences and to know that they aren't out in the cold on
their own.

Jim, unfortunately it sounds as if the woman's family situation means that you 
and your family are going to have to provide this support for both of them.
I really wish you the wisdom and patience and good fortune that you will need
to get through this experience.

Cheryl

Re .10
    >                     -< Is that my old friend Jim Deluco? >-
    
    
    Yes, that's me.  
    
    Re all:
    
    Thank's for all the support.  

    Just my two cents...
    
    Single moms can DO it.......I realize that the situation you are
    worried about is tying your son down as his girlfriend doesn't 
    seem to be "responsible" - this may be true....I really hope that
    his girlfriend realizes the situation she is in...
    
    
    
    I am a single mom -- my daughters father and I still are together 
    but we don't live together.....We do the best that we can to support
    each other emotionally - and he helps out a lot financially - 
    
    
    But,....it is very hard - The money isn't always there to buy a 
    brand new outfit - or that great picture you want for your apartment
    or to go out with your friends......But most of the time when you
    wake up in the morning and your baby looks at you and says "Mum mum.."
    and gives you a great big kiss....Stuff like that doesn't matter....
    
    Dont' get me wrong - I know it's a BIG change!!!!!  But it can work...
    and single moms (or dads for that matter) can do it.....
    
    
    

Some possibilities:

	She could have an abortion.
	She could give birth but the baby could be adopted outside of the
		family.
	She could give birth but the baby could be adopted within the
		family.
	She could give birth and other relatives could raise the child,
		though your son and the mother retain legal parenthood.
	She could give birth and she could have custody of the child.
	She could give birth and your son could have custody of the child.
	She could give birth and both parents could live together and have
		custody of the child.

These are just the possibilities which came to my mind.  There are probably
others, including combinations of the above.  Good luck to all of you.

      Carol

    WELL I'M NEW AT THIS NOTES STUFF BUT LET ME GIVE IT A TRY.
    I'D LIKE TO START BY SAYING THAT MY GIRLFRIEND (NOW MY WIFE) GAVE BIRTH
    TO OUR SON AT AGE SEVENTEEN,HER PARENTS WERE DEAD SET AGAINST IT.WHEN
    THAT BOY CAME OUT IT WAS LIKE THE WHOLE WORLD HAD SMILED ALL AT ONCE,
    THE GREATEST FEELING IN THE WORLD,HER MOTHER CRIED FOR AN HOUR AND HER
    FATHER SWELLED WITH PRIDE.THINGS ARE HARD,I WORK TWO JOBS AND GO TO
    SCHOOL FULL TIME BUT WE MANAGE,AS WILL YOUR SON JUST LET HIM MAKE HIS
    OWN CHOICE SIR,IVE BEEN THERE IT'S ROUGH BUT ANY NEGATIVE RESPONE FROM
    YOU WILL BE MET WITH ANGER AND REBELION.WHAT HE NEEDS NOW IS THE
    SUPPORT OF HIS DAD.WELL GOOD LUCK,THAT'S A TOUGH SITUATION FOR ALL,JUST
    THINK,SOON YOU'LL BE THE GRANDFATHER OF ONE VERY BEUTIFUL CHILD,YOU GET
    TO DO ALL THOSE FUN THINGS ALL OVER AGAIN.I'M HAPPY FOR YOU AND YOUR
    SON!!

    It is good that you have managed and things have been successful for
    you.  Not to sound negative, but from all the cases I've heard, you
    are in a fortunate minority.  Still, your experience is a valuable
    reminder to us all that there are some positive cases.
    
    Congrats.
    
    Stuart
    
    ps.  Please when you use notes and mail, use lower case ... All
    upper case is very hard to read for more than a sentence in a
    normal VDT format.  It is also often considered rude to use all
    upper-case, because it historically has the meanining of SHOUTING,
    if you see what I mean!
    
    

    So, whatever happened to the base noter's son and his girlfriend?  Did
    she have the baby?  If so, what did she have?  Did they keep the baby
    or did they give it up?
    
    Lori B.