Conference moira::parenting

>....but is it unusual for a 29 month old to cry at
>a sad part in a movie?

	Don't adults, if they can understand sadness then I think your
	child is showing compassion. Pretty neat.

    I also think that that is pretty remarkable for a 29 month old.
    Congratulations on having a child who can empathize with other's
    feelings.

    	I don't know if you watched the TV movie Child of Rage, but they
    spent entire therapy sessions dedicated to teaching the child how to
    empathize with other's (and her) pain. Apparently due to severe abuse
    she had removed herself so much from her feelings that she could not
    feel for others even when she was hurting them (sticking the dog with
    needles, hitting her younger brother etc.)

    	To have a child who can not only feel emotion, but be a boy (yes I
    know he is young but he is still subjected to the restraints of
    society) is a great thing. As long as he understands when the movie is
    over that the sadness should end, I don't see any problem at all with
    this.

    		Wendy who always watches Rescue 911 with a box of Kleenex
   			 nearby

> As long as he understands when the movie is  over that the sadness should end, 
>I don't see any problem at all with  this.

Well he perks up when the two mice (Bionca and Bernard) come to help
rescue Penny.  :->

Thanks.

Hamp

    I am a single parent and have been on my own with my son since he was
    just about a year old.  I have found he does the same thing with the
    "Dalmation" movie and several others.  He is forever trying to get me
    to sit with him during the "scary" parts and laughs at the funny parts.
    He had cried when things are sad or asked me "Why" someone is crying. 
    I think it is wonderful that he can be caring of others feelings, even
    if they are cartoons.
    
    Virginia
    
    

     This is interesting to think about, because to me, it brings up several
stages in a child's development.
     I agree that children can be quite empathic, and I can't think of any
reason why they wouldn't be empathic at a movie, as well as at a "real life"
situation.  For one thing, they may not be able to distinguish between a
movie and "real life" as they will eventually be, even if the movie is
animated.  And if I remember the story line of "The Rescuers" correctly,
Penny is an orphan, and if there is anything that would provoke sadness in a
child, it would almost certainly be a child without parents.

Clay

     I just noticed this in my 26 month old this last week. Movies that
she's always watched (101 Dalmations for instance) now cause her to get
emotional and almost to the point of tears. I first thought, well she's
got to know that it all turns out ok - she's only seen the movie about 
100 times! But then I realized that she can't yet rationalize to that
point, and yes, she's developing emphathy. What a neat milestone to see 
develop! Now we'll have to not only be careful about what she watches but
make sure she understands what's going on - no nightmares yet please! :)

Julia

    It's pretty common for a kid around two to start crying when
    somebody else, especially another child, is crying.  
    
    --bonnie

    Our son Robin has been very sensitive to music since he was very
    young.  He'll get scared during a movie just listening to the
    music, so that he'll want it turned off.  If we turn the sound down
    for a few seconds till the music changes, its okay.
    He'll react strongly to music on the radio....he'll react to
    the jazz on NPR (happy, sad, varies) that to me is just music!
    bob

    
    I remember my niece had a similiar reaction to Pinnochio when she was
    around 2 years old, maybe even younger. Whenever the fire scene was
    approaching, where Pinnichio catches on fire, we had to stop the tape
    and fast forward past it. She would become agitated just knowing that
    it was coming up.
    
    Barbara

Kids do seem to respond to the music very much.  I remember when Markus
ended up seeing large portions of "Nightmare on Elm Street" without our
knowing it and having nightmares for weeks afterwards.  I finally got it out
of the video club and we watched it together with the sound turned off.  When
Freddie would appear, I'd freeze the image and we'd discuss how they'd done
the makeup, etc.

But removing the music took almost all the terror out of the film.

Dirk once caught the opening scene of a detective story that my husband was
going to watch (you know, bring him for the goodnight kiss just when car
crashes, turns over, and man hits steering wheel and bloodily dies) when he
was just about three or four.  He wasn't yet old enough to know the difference
between films and reality.  We again had problems for weeks putting him to
bed.

Boy am I glad they're bigger now.  Markus is into girls and Dirk is into
basketball �(���)�

Cheryl

P.S. Smiley stolen from another notes file �(���)�

    I was just talking to a friend last night about kids' sensitivity
    to music. He was babysitting for his neice one night when she was
    about 2. He put on Mozart's Requiem, and she pointed at the stereo
    and said "Dead music." She had never heard it before, but got the
    message immediately.
    
    I also remember when my son was about 2, he heard the theme music 
    from "Twin Peaks" on the radio and burst into sobs. He was very
    upset, saying "Turn off! Turn off!".
    
    Lucy

re: music

The music is definitely a factor.  The movie (THE RESCUERS) opens with
a sad song ('Who will Rescue Me') and JC gets real quiet and his jaws
drop.  

Hamp

    Is it just me, or do other parents find some of the Disney movies  
    too scarey for children?  I'm thinking of scenes such as when the
    child gets dunked in the ocean full of crocidiles (The Rescuers), when
    Pinocchio catches on fire, when Wendy walks the plank (Peter Pan), etc.
    I think we all love Disney so much, in general, that we figure they 
    must "know" more than us about what is OK to put into kids movies.  But
    frankly, I'm getting to the point where I won't buy a Disney video for
    my son anymore.  
    
    Kind of reminds me of the fairy tales we were told as kids.  Who
    decided that little children should be told stories about witches amd
    children being eatten by wolves, etc?  At least, though, those were 
    relayed to us verbally or through picture books.  But with the videos
    of today, it's just too realistic.  
    
    Jane

re: .14

     Does your SON show signs that it is too scary?  Nightmares?  Crying or
getting extremely fearful when the scary character or frightening sequence is
shown?  I'll admit to having had some concerns, but my concerns were a bit
different.  For example, my son watched "Pinocchio" over and over again.  I
frequently wondered what was going through his mind as the boys turned into
donkeys.
     I read an article several years ago, I think it was in Parents'
magazine.  The author quoted a child psychiatrist (don't remember who it was,
but the name was familiar to me) who said unless some of the above symptoms
were occurring, don't worry.  In fact he said sometimes the scary character
might be better than the fairy tales we heard, because the child's
imagination can create a creature more horrible (and/or lifelike) than the
animated Disney types.
     The times I remember, as a kid, being really frightened were of "real"
monsters or bad guys.  The animated bad guys, however scary, never bothered
me.  But I remember begging my mother to take me to "King Kong," then spent a
good portion of the movie hiding behind the seat.

Clay 

    RE: .14
    
    It is funny that you say that about Disney.  For all our lives my
    husband and I have seen Disney movies and never thought about it.  Now
    we have story books and movies and here is a witch trying to kill a
    young girl with an apple, and a crazy lady trying to skin dogs, and
    then the hunters with Bambi.  Actually, there is a family story in my
    house about Bambi.  My dad was a hunter and we had dear heads in the
    house.,  After Bambi, my sister told me dad shot Bambi's mother and it
    tooks weeks for him to get her to convince me otherwise - the proof was
    on the wall.   I got over it but it will be a long time before I can
    watch Bambi with my son without leaving the room at the hunting seen.
    
    So I don't know.  We all of a sudden wonder if we are being too careful
    or too sensitive.  I mean afterall, it's Disney.   So far our son does
    not seem to be affected yet (at just 2 years) and we did not end up
    wierd watching all those movies, just a bit more sensitive.  Maybe
    that's not bad since the moral of the stories are still there.
    
    Michelle
    

    We rarely watch TV and our 2 year old son, Jonathan, is only interested
    in the morning Sesame Streets on PBS.  He has suddenly taken an interest 
    in movies, after we rented Bambi and he begged to see it again.  So we 
    bought the movie and Jonathan can't get enough.    
    
    This craving must be part of the development process.  He loves to comment 
    on the scenes and always smiles when Thumper does his thumping.  Add
    the frequent reading of the Disney stories that include Bambi, Thumper
    and other characters and it is easy to see why kids love this stuff.
    I still have vivid childhood memories of those Sunday night Disney
    movies... 

    
    Whe Genna was 2 she was watching Lassie, it was a show where he gets
    lost.  Well, Genna fell asleep during the movie and she woke up after
    the show was over.  She cam in to Mom and was very upset, crying and
    all.  My wife asked Genna what was wrong and Genna replied that Lassie
    was lost.  We explained to her that she missed the restof the program
    and that Lassie was back at home safe and sound.  Brought a lump to old
    dad's throat seeing my little one upset that way.
    
    Mike

>    Brought a lump to old dad's throat seeing my little one upset that way.
    

     I can well imagine. 8')

    
    FWIW:
    
    My 34 month daughter has recently been incessantly asking about "bad"
    people, an "good" people.  Also, she has had bad dreams about Cruella
    taking puppies.    
    
    We have allowed her to watch the Little Mermaid, and 101 Dalmations,
    and she's seen Cinderella once.
    
    I asked the pedi about this fixation, and he stated that the DIsney
    movies were *very difficult* for children because the bad people are SO
    bad, and because they're really almost overwhelming on the screen.  He
    said if I had asked him around age 2 what to AVOID, the first thing on
    his list would have been Disney movies.. they're just too intense.
    
    
    I thought this kind of related to your topic.  DIsney is very good at
    makning movies, but the little guys sometimes can't split the fantasy
    from REALITY.
    
    
    Jamd

    My daughter (22 months) just started watching movies about 2 months
    ago.  Now she is terrified of 101 Dalmations, she starts getting
    all nervous when the puppies start going through the whole in the
    wall - and goes to terrified (screams and shaking body) when Perdi
    and Pongo jump through the window..She's afraid of Beauty and the
    Beast and Rescuers down under (the beginning when they rush across
    that field)....It seems that over the last 2 weeks all the movies
    are scaring her.
    
    My question is..Should I turn them off or try and make her understand
    what is going on in each movie?  Sometimes telling her that it's okay
    and explaining to her the story a little bit she's okay and others
    she isn't.  

    Is she terrified but wants to continue watching?  Or does
    she say 'turn it off'?

    My son was often scared during movies and by turning the sound
    off, it changed from 'terrified' to 'interested'.  He's very
    atuned to sound and music (even now at almost 8) and will
    really react to blues or jazz.

    After watching (sound off) a movie, he would know that everything
    was going to be okay and be comfortable with the sound on.

    When we go to a 'big screen' movie, like Free Willy, he's
    terrified during the scary parts and closes his eyes (and wants
    to go home)....but i'm usually there with a bunch of kids and
    cant leave, so he does have to stay or go out to the lobby.
    Its hard.

    Our kids favorite movies are still our videos of them as babies...
    and they aren't scary at all.
    bob

    I would assume that she just isn't ready for the sometimes intense
    scenes Disney does so well... so yes, turn them off, AND explain the
    scenes to her.  Put those movies in a closet for a few months, and when
    you try again, use that Pause button if you see her getting antsy.  Try
    explaining and/or use the Stop button.
    
    Leslie

    Here's another vote for shelving the Disney movies until later:
    they are more adult in tone than the popular image would have 
    it--or rather, they are more what children used to get in the 
    "old days" (consider Grimm's tales).
    
    But there's so much more impact to words + pictures + music than
    just words alone.
    
    I'll also vouch for the effectiveness of turning the sound off;
    it works for adults as well.  Music has a path to your emotions
    that is direct and powerful.
    
    		-John Bishop (who sometimes puts fingers in his ears
    			      when watching movies)

    When Natasha (now 2) first watched the first moments of Lady and the
    Tramp she's get upset at Lady yelping.  After we played like we were
    puppies yelping & thats what puppies do she was fine.  She now says
    when it comes on, "he's yelp'n and he wants a hug from his mommy".
    
    My Daughter wants the "Beast" (Beauty in the Beast)........I fast
    forward though all the nasty scenes and have followed suit with any
    program I know she loves, but has a few iffy parts.
    
    Her favorite song in the whole world (which she sing a zillions times a
    day) is "Be our guest, be our guest, put our service to the test..etc" 
    I crack up when she sings it with accent.
    
    My daughter is highly emotional and gets upset when she sees someone
    cry on tv.......one day I had the tube on while I was cleaning and
    someone was hitting someone and she yells out, "NO HITT'N, NO HITT'N".
    
    We shelter as much as possible while still trying to keep her with a
    little reality.  However, none of the disney characters die when mommy
    reads the books,,,,they all take little nappies. :-)
    

    
    Another vote for shelving the Disney movies, and not from me alone, but
    from my pedi.  according to him, the Disney movies are both more adult
    in theme than appears at first glance, and also, VERY overwhelming from
    a sensory perspective.
    
    Try the Thomas videos, or the Barney series.
    Jamd
    

    
    I dunno about the earlier replies about taking the problem videos away,
    it doesn't seem natural to be scared of a kiddie movie.
    
    Maybe I just have burnt nerves from sitting next to a kid for 7 hours who 
    screamed the living daylights out the plane everytime we brought an
    ALFie doll out to play with the twins. When we realised what was
    happening, we gave up on ALFie, but still, there's paranoia and
    paranoia!
    
    Simon

It's perfectly "natural", Simon.  Many of these movies are made with
scary scenes right out of a child's nightmares.  

Remember, too, that children have very little control over their lives, plus
very little knowledge of how things really work in the world.  Evan, at age
5, still has trouble understanding what is likely to hurt him and what isn't.
Currently he is frightened at night of things like invisible people coming
through walls to hurt him (don't know who told him about scary ghosts, but it
appears that is what he is frightened of).  Now, you and *I* know this is
highly unlikely, but for him it is a real fear.  These movies play on those
fears, and even though they may patch it together with a happy ending, while
the scary scenes last they are *real* to the kids. 

       Carol

My 6 year old has already made her wishes known re the new movie "The Nightmare
Before Christmas".  When I asked her whether it might be too scary for her, I
got back one of those looks and "Mom, it's just a movie!!!".

I guess I've taught her only too well . . .

    I know this is quite over due, but here's my 02 cents worth.
    
    I took AJ, who was a couple months shy of 7 last fall, to see Free
    Willey.  I realized in advance that there were some scarey scenes, some
    noise, and some potential for him to be concerned and afraid.  I guess
    I may be blamed for ruining the punchline, but felt that in his best
    interest to tell him as the movie was begining that Willey would have
    some hard times in the movie, but in the end he would be perfectly
    fine.  There was the scene where the tank was draining, and it looked
    like Willey would meet his end, I again enforced that good would
    prevail and Willey would do fine.  I also used the movie to enforce
    that some of the things the boy(s) did was very wrong, and if you do
    wrong you have to make it right (the grafitti scene is what I'm
    thinking of)
    
    The end was emotional for both of us, thank goodness for dark theaters,
    I too cried when Willey jumped the wall and went off to join his
    friends.  But AJ accepted that Willey would be very happy "playing with
    his relatives", and *maybe someday* Willey wold get to see his friend
    again...... and he lived happily ever after, right!
    
    Perhaps enforcing that there is a happy ending, in the beginning of the
    movie could be a solutions.
    
    ....now what about Bambi's mother who dies???  (sniff!)
    
    Lyn

    Bambi's mother etc. I think the CRITICAL aspects about death that 'must'
    be stressed to children are that 1. its natural. 2. inevitiable, and 3.
    OK. which means (to me) that death is a good continuation of existance
    rather than a bad ending to existance.  So... its ok that Bambi's
    mother died, why? See above.
    
    Jeff