Conference moira::parenting

    I, personally, would start to seek out a new day care provider.  Once
    you start to have bad feelings, for whatever reason, it becomes harder
    to have the good feelings (surrounding daycare).  Max is young enough
    to adjust fairly easily to a new environment.
    
    Jennifer
    

    I vote to remove you son too.  I had a similiar situation but mine was
    biting not hitting (I HAD the physical evidence!).  I too talked to my
    provider and felt much better, until the next time he got bit!  
    
    I was encouraged to try and ignore it, no matter where I bring my son,
    I will encounter this type of behavior (the provider said it was
    normal).  But, I took my chances and removed my son to a new center. 
    
    I'm please to report that this behavior is not a problem at the new
    center.  The whole incident made me question how the new center
    disiplines aggresive behavior.  I was not happy with the old centers
    policy (redirection).  
    
    I also really started to question accident reports and why these things
    were happening, where were the providers?  When I began to start
    questioning my sons safety, I also I realized I was loosing trust and
    and I was no longer comfortabled leaving my son in their care.  
    
    I'm not sure if this helps, I know how difficult it can be to weigh out
    the transitioning factor.  
    
    But I feel Evan is in a safer environment, so now I can focus on work
    again and not be wondering all day long.  
    
    For what it's worth, I don't think a 4 year old would just come out
    with a remark like that from the blue.  I would take his comment
    seriously.  Maybe you could speak to his mother.  Even if your child is
    getting hit, I don't think the provider would be eager to share that
    with you.  
    
    Linda 

    I definately agree with .2.  At this point I would seek a
    daycare/learning center where he will be with others in his same age
    group.  There are some excellent centers out there.  Best of luck! 

    RE: -1  Hi Donna--remember me from IND days?
    
    Thanks for all the replies.  I have called Burbanks daycare center and
    the woman that answered the phone took pity on me and is willing to see
    us next week.  
    
    Like I said earlier, I don't think Max was hit.  But, even if there is
    a .00000001% chance, it's too much.  Accidents don't bother me so much,
    but the thought of him actually being hit by another person...I can't
    even think about it without getting sick to my stomache...
    
    Does anyone have recommendations for Daycare Centers in Fitchburg/
    Westminster area???  Please.

    I just went through something like this about 2 months ago....
    
    My baby wasn't being hit - but the 3rd day she was there I went
    to pick her up and she was in the dining room (which was an off-
    limits room) by her self - NO toys out in the house and the older
    kids were watching TV.  I asked my provider why Samantha was in
    the other room and her reply was:...
    
    "She's been fussing all day and she was getting the rest of the
    kids riled (sp) up..."
    
    That was a friday - I was livid but didn't know what to do.....
    All I could think of was MY kid locked up?!  I figure if she's
    fussy SOMETHING is wrong and if you can't handle it call me!
    
    I dropped her off there again - (didn't have any other choice) -
    and cried all the way to work...Just didn't settle right -
    
    Her father and I split 1/2 days until I found another daycare -
    which was 3 days later -
    
    My new daycare provider is excellent - 
    
    Once those bad feelings hit....They don't go away ---
    
    Good luck...
    
    
    Andrea

    re: .0
    
    I think you have made the right decision.  It is very
    important that you feel comfortable of your daycare arrangement.
    Don't be afraid to make changes.  Your child is still very young.
    He will have no problem with a new daycare enviornment.
    
    As for hitting, I personally believe the 4 year old more than
    the daycare provider.  I don't think your daycare provider is lying.
    She may not be around when the hitting took place.  I also think
    it is a normal behaviour for a 4 year old.  He may be jealous of
    the attention that your son has been getting.
    
    Wendy

    
    .6 is very correct.  My daughter started daycare at 8 weeks of age.
    and is now 15 months she has been going to the same place, the daycare
    ladies some is a biter and since Emily was the one that needed so much
    of his mom;s attention that he has bitten her a few times, the daycare
    lady has been very good about discipline.  He not only bites my
    daughter but he is biting the other kids too. 
    
    The best thing you can do is follow your heart, if it tells you to find
    new daycare then find it.  You have got to be happy with the person
    that is taking care of your child.
    
    Good Luch Lisa

    I also agree that you have to go with your gut instinct and its very
    important to feel confident and good about the person who is taking
    care of your child.
    
    But...I also have kinda mixed feelings on this particular incident.
    I think you have to be fair to your daycare person too, especially
    if you have been happy with her up until this point.  I think it 
    was an excellent idea to talk with the child's mother and let her
    know your concerns.
    
    The reason I feel this way is because of a particular incident that
    happened with me.  Chelsea started daycare at 4 months of age.  The
    first two weeks were wonderful, I felt so lucky to have found someone
    I feel so confident in leaving her with...she has been diaper rash
    free...gets lots of snuggling and attention and her temperment has
    actually improved....I attribute this to all the stimulation she is
    getting at day care, other children, etc.
    
    I picked her up on Friday and was walking out to my car.  Karle's (my
    daycare person) daughter and friend were playing in the front yard.
    Both of them are almost nine.  I stopped to say goodbye to them and
    the friend said "Oh thats the baby I fed today"...well my heart
    dropped.  I had told Karle that only adults could feed Chelsea and no
    bottle propping.  Now I'm not that strict with my own family and of
    course it is superivsed, but my six year old niece does an excellent
    job feeding Chelsea (...has lots of practice with her dolls!!..the kid
    is a minature mom!)  I probably should have gone right back in, but I
    didn't want to over react, so I went home to think about it....which
    turned into more of stewing than thinking.
    
    On Monday, I told Karle exactly what happened and Karle told me exactly
    what happened....the conversation went very well.  Karle sits a 2 month
    old two days a week.  Usually Chelsea's and Gary's schedules have not
    collided, but on Friday they did.  Karle was sitting on the floor with
    both of them in the infant seats during a double handed feed...(this
    is fine by me, cuz on the rare occasion Glenn and I have gotten to go
    out to eat since Chelsea was born, I have fed her in her car seat while
    shoveling food in my mouth with the freehand.)  Anywho...Gary is much
    younger and needed his burp first.  Chelsea who acts like she has just
    returned from starvation camp during a feed gave Karle her strongest
    feelings when Karle put her bottle down, so she could burp Gary.  Karle
    asked Jennifer to hold the bottle while Chelsea was in the infant seat
    while she burped the baby.....
    
    Sorry to ramble, but my gut also said when I read your note that you
    also have to not over react and listen to the other side of the story,
    not just from the four year old...who I am sure is telling the truth.
    My feeling was that if you have been really happy with this person up
    until this point, don't jump into looking for another daycare.  My
    personal experience is good daycare is not that easy to find and your
    next place might have bigger problems then what you are dealing with
    now.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    ..Lori
                                 

    One thing people can do is drop in unannounced now and then. I've found
    it really gives me reassurance, or else confirms a suspicion (like, the
    sitter said she limited the TV, but the TV was on each time I dropped
    in). 
    
    Hitting is a lot more serious than excess TV watching, and I doubt you
    would happen to catch someone in the act of hitting, but you might get
    a different view of the general situation.
    
    Lucy

    My feeling to this is that I've found young children to exagerate a
    bit.  What may have happened once - turns into a sentence that sounds
    like it always happens.  It might just be that their words & sentence
    structure is really fully developed.  But, I agree w/ most everyone
    else - you have to go w/ your gut feelings.
    
    Good luck w/ your new daycare!
    Sonia

    Kids are going to hit.  They need to be taught not to.  The
    important thing isn't so much whether an incident, or repeated
    incidents, happened as how the caregiver handles it.  Appropriate
    handling will depend on each family's individual standards.  This
    is something only you can decide, but keep in mind that changing
    caregivers is not going to prevent your kid from getting hit
    forever. 
    
    It's also possible that the older kid does hit your son, and he's
    not nearly as upset by it as you are and handles it by himself,
    without reporting it to the caregiver.  
    
    --bonnie

>    It's also possible that the older kid does hit your son, and he's
>    not nearly as upset by it as you are and handles it by himself,
>    without reporting it to the caregiver.  


Wasn't the child being hit in this case only 5 months old?

    I wondered that too!!...the reporting?!?  I decided that maybe Bonnie
    meant that a good old cry indicating "I'm Hurt" could possible be
    reporting it to the caregiver....
    
    Okay Bonnie....fill us in!
    
    ..Lori

    Hm???  The noter's child is old enough to talk.  I thought it was
    the noter's child who was hit.  
    
    --bonnie

    The child is almost seven months old.  I don't want him to handle this
    at all!  If he falls and gets hurt, I'm not too bothered.  He learns
    from this.  If another child (that is close in age) pokes him in the
    eye, I'm not bothered (this age group seems to love touching eyes), the
    children are exploring each other.  These things can't be prevented,
    nor do I try to prevent them.
    
    I can't live with anyone intentionally hitting him.  It is my job to 
    protect him.  I realize the situation COULD also occur in another
    setting, but if I strongly feel that he is being hit, then I must
    remove him.  To me, there is a big difference between "could possible"
    and "probably".  He can't defend himself.  He can't even communicate
    that he was hit.  Only that he is hurt.  I have seen this 4 year old
    hit.  He hits HARD!  His mom says he KNOWS not to hit the babies. 
    Since he doesn't know NOT to hit (hope that makes sense), I'm not sure
    that he knows not to hit the babies.  He shouldn't be hitting anyone.
    
    When he is 4 years old, and is hit by another 4 year old, I'll stand
    back a bit more.  I'll let him handle it a bit more.  If, at 4, he is
    being hit by a 12 year old, I'll probably be as upset!  
    
    I have decided to place him in Burbank hospitals child-care center for
    two days per week and with another home provider one day per week.  At 
    burbank he will only be with children his age.  If anyone has any
    comments on Burbank, I'd appreciate hearing them!
    
    Max is such a happy, outgoing baby.  I want him to stay that way!

    I'm sorry, I misunderstood the situation.  I thought the child
    being hit was around 2, and the 7-month-old was one of the other
    children at the daycare.
    
    --bonnie

    My baby, another Max, is 10 months old now, and he has been hit
    and pinched by his older brother Jesse on occassion most of his
    life.  Jesse doesn't hit Max as hard as he would hit someone his
    own size or an adult, but he hits just hard enough to make Max
    cry.  Or knocks him down.  Or grabs his toys. He also loves his
    brother, kisses him, shares with him, and orders us to feed Max
    or change Max if he thinks we're not responding to the baby
    quickly enough.  I believe the negative events are all caused
    by jealousy, and that it's normal.
    
    I understand the pain of not having protected your helpless baby
    from this aggression.  When Jesse, my first baby, was small, he
    was completely protected.  I cried when he was vaccinated.  If
    anyone had hit my baby, I'd have gone on the rampage!
     
    But I have learned that with two that idealistic environment is
    no longer possible.
    
    My boys are two and a half years apart.  If you are planning a 
    second, and are so worried about this kind of thing, I would
    recommend spacing your children further apart - at least 4 years.
    Under that age the kids don't have the empathy or understanding
    to behave the way we would like.  My son knows better, but he
    still does it.  Then he is told I will NOT allow him to hurt
    Max, just as I would not allow anyone to hurt him, and send him
    to his room because he cannot be around other people if he's
    going to hurt them.  (It's a time out.)  I don't know what else
    one could do - I'm not about to hit my three year old!
    
    And, my Max is fine.  The happiest baby in the world, people often
    comment on his happy temperament.  Hasn't scarred him yet!
    
        
                     

    
    Let your current provider know what your plans are so as she can make
    arrangements to fill your sons slot.  These people count on the income
    to pay their bills.  
    
    As for your concerns, I think you may be overreacting a bit.  We are on
    child #3 and alot of the behaviors exhibited by the 4 year old are
    normal.  I agree that the most important thing is how the provider
    handles the situation.
    
    Mike

    Help me out, this is a similar situation as the basenoter.
    
    Last week I stopped by a little earlier than usual to pick up AJ at the
    daycare home.  Since I had been home over a week it was a nice
    opportunity to just chat a bit, as a friend and neighbor, with the
    provider.  (She really is a neighbor, her property almost abuts ours,
    and we've both been in the development almost the same amount of time
    but have never met until the referral service recommended her).  During
    the time I was there she had left the kitchen, bathroom I think, where 
    we were chatting, the "boys" were in the livingroom watching a tape.  I
    peeked in to see what was happening, all was quiet.  Then I observed
    the sitter's own 4.5 year old swat one of the other boys, a 16 month
    old baby, on the butt several times fairly hard.  The baby started
    crying and the sitter came to see what was wrong.  The baby had fallen
    over from a sitting position onto one side and was really crying hard. 
    She assumed he was crying because he was unable to get back up, the
    baby is a little "pudgy".  She picked him up and comforted him, I
    didn't say anything about the incident at the time.  But I am feeling
    more and more guilty about the incident every day.  What should I have
    done.  I didn't want to seem as if I were tattling, especially where it
    was her own son who hit the baby.
    
    Her general attitude towards the boys seems to be quite a bit more
    towards ignoring most problems than I tolerate.  I can see that he own
    son is really a royal brat, and tends to have temper tantrums, and hit
    a lot more than I would permit.  AJ came home with a bruise on his face
    the first week, saying that her son had hit him with a stick outside. 
    I didn't question that, she did tell me she knew of the injury, and had
    put ice on it.
    
    I like her as a person, and I feel at 6 AJ ought to be able to go and
    tell her if something is disturbing him so I'm a lot more tolerant now
    than if he were the baby.  Plus the convienence ofhaving her so close,
    and keeping AJ's bus stop unchanged whether I'm home or not.
    
    Opinions???
    
    Lyn

    Lyn,
    
    I think I would definitely talk with her.  Even if it's too
    uncomfortable telling her what happened (her son hitting the toddler)
    since time has passed, I would at least talk with her about what her
    discipline policy is and let her know that she does NOT have permission
    to hit or spank AJ.
    
    I don't believe that, at six, AJ should be expected to judge the
    woman's actions or to speak up if he judges it to be inappropriate.
    It's not his responsibility to see that he is not mistreated.  Also,
    he may see your sending him to this person as approval of her actions.
    When I was in my early 20s, I had gone home to my parents' for the
    weekend and I invited my best "childhood" friend (who lived next door
    with her folks) over for a glass of wine.  We got to "reminiscing"
    about our Catholic grammar school (1st-8th grade) and were laughing
    about a number of stories, including some of the things the nuns did
    that were inappropriate (including corporal punishment).  My mother
    was HORRIFIED and wanted to know why we never told our parents any
    of this.  My response was, "I don't know...I guess we assumed you
    knew."    My point is that, even if something is going on that you
    don't approve of and aren't aware of, AJ may assume that you ARE
    aware and that's okay.
    
    T.
    
    

Definitely talk to her.   She is most likely a caring parent who will want
to deal with her kid appropriately.  She can't if she doesn't know about it.


Pat

>    Then I observed
>    the sitter's own 4.5 year old swat one of the other boys, a 16 month
>    old baby, on the butt several times fairly hard.

>   She picked him up and comforted him, I
>    didn't say anything about the incident at the time.  
    
>    Her general attitude towards the boys seems to be quite a bit more
>    towards ignoring most problems than I tolerate.  

     Obviously not.

>    Opinions???
    
     You should of said something.

My child care provider has several children around the same age (2-3) two of
them being her grandchildren.  Now, she tells me all the time that she never
has to reprimand my son and that her grandchildren are the worst behaved of the
bunch.  There have been times when I ask my son about his day and he will say
that Evan hit me or the Gary took my toy or something like that.  I always 
mention this to my sitter the next day.

It is difficult to watch all the children every minute, and I do believe that
a certain amount of this behavior occurs naturally between children.  My concern
would be the way the caregiver handles the situation.  I have seen the way
my sitter reacts when she sees the behavior occurs, and I am happy with her
disciplinary actions.

Deb