Conference moira::parenting

    You can't make him wear his seatbelt.  (There was a
    Letter-To-The-Editor in the local paper today from a guy complaining
    about being ticketed for not wearing his seat belt.  That's a $75 fine
    here in Texas.)
    
    The way to explain it to Matthew is to tell him that not everyone does
    the right thing (just wait until the subject of cigarettes comes up)
    and that until he is an adult living out on his own, he will have to do
    as you say.
    
    Bob

    Boy can I relate to this one....but mine turned out to be a happy
    ending....
    
    My hubby was the same way....some of his comments were:
    If I die, I die, some people die *because* they are wearing thier
    seatbelt, no one is going to *force* me to do anything...we lived
    in Colorado and he was at Fort Carson.
    
    Now, he is a paramedic in Atlanta....just about every shift he sees broken
    faces, severe head injuries, dead people that have gone through
    the windshield, etc. He's even had a baby die that the mother was
    holding on her lap because she was just going 1/4 mile to the store.
    He won't even start the car unless everyone has their seatbelt on.
    
    He said he was stupid to not realize that seatbelts really do save
    your life.  Just because you don't hear of someone everyday getting
    thier life saved because of a seatbelt, doesn't mean it isn't
    happening.  Yeah, I don't think the government has any business
    telling adults to wear a seatbelt, but I'd wear one anyways.
    
    Every so often he'll get someone that says, "I always wear my seatbelt,
    and I just didn't this time" as he's trying to bandage their head.
    
    Are there any kind of tapes you can rent that show accidents with
    victims not wearing seatbelts?  Have him go to
    a fire station and talk to a paramedic....sometimes they'll even
    let you go on calls....depends on the station.
    
    As far as your child, just make a rule.  The car does not start
    unless he is in a seatbelt.  And when he asks why daddy doesn't,
    let your husband explain it....I bet he will find it difficult to
    justify it.
    
    I work with a couple of people that have 3 kids each.  They are
    9, 6, 3.  When I bought my minivan, they both told me how great it
    is for kids.  When their tired, they can sleep on the seats and on the
    floor.  I asked them about seatbelts and they said...Ahh...don't have
    to worry about that.  When you're on the highway, nothing will happen.
    
    Since then, I can't believe all the kids I see that run around in cars.
    I am just appalled that these people think this way...and I work with
    them.  A 3 year old should be in a car seat....I just can't believe it.
    
    You have a tough battle....I think some of us don't need to see what
    can happen, and we wear ours....other people need to actually see
    what can happen before they wear theirs...it's too bad....but I'm
    glad my hubby came to his senses...
    
     Good Luck...kristen
    
    

    I guess you will get a lot of "if it hadn't been for seatbelts,
    I wouldn't be here" notes -- but it's true.  I was in an accident
    on I-75 in Kentucky about 10 years ago, and some jackass cut me
    off -- I swerved into the high speed lane to avoid rearending this
    clown and got broadsided by another driver.  Did the ol' 360 two
    or three times -- this is at 65 mph, mind you -- and damn near
    went over an embankment.  But I was able to bring the car under
    control.  (Yes, your life DOES flash before your eyes.)  I had
    a bruised knee and general aches and pains.  My sister, who was
    with me, had the s*** scared out of her.  We spent the night in
    Kentucky, got the car as fixed as we could get it, and went on
    our way the next day.  
    
    Seatbelts, I love you....

    I always wear my seatbelt and I woln't start the car until my daughters
    have their seatbelts buckled.  My parents don't like to wear their
    seatbelts, but if they are in my car I insist that they wear them.
    I got some flack about this at first, but I simply told them that I
    didn't want their grandchildren to live with the trauma of watching
    their grandmother or grandfather going through the windshield if we
    were ever in an accident.
    

    The way I finally got my father to wear a seatbelt in my car was to buy
    a car with passive seatbelts (i.e., the shoulder belt, at least, moves
    into place automatically when you shut the door).
    
    -Tracy
    

    re: 5
    
    Tracy,
    
    Those passive seatbelts are worthless if not used with the lapbelt.
    A friend of mine was was killed recently because all he was using was
    the shoulder harness without the lap belt.  He was ejected from the 
    car throught the windshield.  I personally feel that those automatic
    shoulder harnessess are very dangerous, they give people a false sense
    of security. (IMHO).
    

    I once saw a bumpersticker or something with this quote, which later
    became a ritual for my husband and me...
    
    "Fasten your seat belt, cause I love you."
    
    Now, if we're driving along and he realizes that he didn't put it on
    before I do, he'll say with a pout that I forgot to say the phrase! 
    It's become something cute and loving between us.  
    
    However, from the sounds of it, you've basically appealed to your
    husband in a similar way.  I agree with the second noter (I think) that
    you could explain to Matthew (?) that all adults don't always do the
    right thing,  but encourage your son to follow your example.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Lynn
    

    I don't think it is a safety issue with your husband.  I think he knows
    what could happen in an accident.  I think what you're coming up
    against is the issue of being "right".  In his mind it is more
    important to stand up for what he feels is his undeniable right (to NOT
    wear a seatbelt).
    
    Let me explain by example...
    
    A Mack truck is coming at you head on in your lane.  You know you're
    right because you are driving in YOUR lane.  The question you must
    answer is, do you want to be right (and dead) or are you willing to bend 
    a little?
    
    BTW, we all do this, some people to a greater extent.
    
    Jane

    "Here lies the body of Jacob Jay
    Who died maintaining his right of way
    He was right, dead right, as he rolled along,
    But he's just as dead as if he'd been dead wrong."

    I've been very concerned about certain of my husband's bad habits,
    which I won't detail in this public forum to save him embarrassment. 
    Anyway, I was concerned that our daughter would imitate them.
    
    It's interesting that these bad habits are gradually being replaced
    with better habits.  I don't nag (much ;-) or try to dominate him, but
    I don't hide my opinions either.  For whatever reason, I am seeing
    quite an improvement.
    
    I did set my mind that for whatever of his (or my own) bad habits
    persist, I'll just tell Ilona, "Do as I say and not as I do."  I'm not
    recommending that as a general theory of child rearing, but if all else
    fails, what else can you say?  We're all humans and none of us is
    perfect.  So we'll just do the best we can.
    
    Does your Sunday newspaper carry the Curtis cartoon?  Curtis is always
    removing his Dad's cigarettes and lecturing Dad about the hazards of
    smoking.  By now, Dad is getting really mad since this has been going
    on for at least a year.  :-)  
    
    To answer the base note, why not tell Dad, "Just wait until Junior gets
    indoctrinated into seat belt use and scolds you each time you get in
    the car."  That is the most likely outcome, actually.  Junior has been
    in the seatbelt habit since birth, remember.
    
    L

re: .10

Though it may not be of much help to the base noter now, I agree with Laura. 
Once kids have been gotten a few messages they can be quite merciless about
reminding their parents.  Just as example,

1.   My children were the ones who ultimately got my father-in-law to begin
     using his seat belt.

2.   In V3, there was a discussion of a child using the term "druggie" to
     refer to her father because he smoked.

3.   I don't remember what grade it was, but at one of the open houses at my
     daughter's school, the class had cut out pictures out of the newpaper   
     and pasted them on a sheet of paper entitled "things I like" etc.  Of 
     the "Things I hate" pages, I would estimate 80% had a picture of a      
     cigarette, and 75% had a picture of a bottle of booze or a beer.

Clay 

    
    
>     Of the "Things I hate" pages, I would estimate 80% had a picture of a  
>     cigarette, and 75% had a picture of a bottle of booze or a beer.
    
    	Just wait until the little troopers get into high-school....:):):)
    
    	Re: seatbelts
    
    	I personally don't like to wear my seatbelt. And yes, I know what
    can happen to a person who is not wearing a seatbelt...I've had it
    happen to me. I hit a large tree head on (on the drivers side no less)
    doing 65+ mph. Broke my jaw and my hand, gave myself a good concussion
    and damn near bled to death before the paramedics got there. A seat
    belt may have helped me, but that's not the point. I just don't care
    for them and it's a personal choice. 
    
    	If someone is not aware of the possible dangers involved, then
    educate them. If they are aware but choose not to wear the seatbelt
    anyway, then that's their choice....
    
    
    						just my 2�
    
    						   jim s.

>    	If someone is not aware of the possible dangers involved, then
>    educate them. If they are aware but choose not to wear the seatbelt
>    anyway, then that's their choice....


Accident injuries resulting from people not wearing seatbelts are more serious
and require more medical care than if people don't wear them.  This makes
everybodies insurance rates go up.

In Europe, it is law that you wear them.  If you don't, you get fined on the
spot.  There are police who are stationed at toll booths and police checks
who enforce this (along with children in the rear seat, child seats, 
properly functioning lights, etc.)  I think this is only goodness but that's, 
just MHO.

Cheryl 

    
    You could refuse to be in the same car as him if he doesn't belt up. I
    suppose this is quite drastic, negative, and argument inducing, but at
    least he would get the point.  Sounds like male pride and stubborness (
    spelling ? ) is getting in the ways of his commonsense.
    
    As a passenger I went _THROUGH_ a laminated windscreen because the
    driver said the seatbelt didn't work and as such I didn't wear it.  I
    wasn't a pretty sight for a long time ( some would say I'm still not
    :-)  ) and I wouldn't want to inflict it on anybody else.
    
    
    Some other points:
    
    o  If you and your SO argue infront of your child then does this mean
       you authority will be deminished in the eyes of your child so that
       he/she will tend to argue back whenever you try to impose a unwanted
       rule ?
    
    o  Will your child copy your father by lapsing into silence as a way of
       arguing / avoiding arguments ?
    
    o  Will your child be brought up to think it's normal for couples to
       argue in this manner ?
    
    o  It's not only your husband's safety that's important but that of the
       people around him ( he could hit others in the car if he is not
       belted up and you have anything other than a simple head-on
       collision ).
    
    o  If he is a wage provider then you also have to look at it from the
       angle of the loss of earnings if he kicks the bucket.
    
    o  Also it isn't very pleasant for a child to be brought up fatherless !
    
    o  What happens if he doesn't die, but is crippled, and as such you
       have to look after him for the rest of his life.
    
    o  Does the fact that he is not wearing a seatbelt invalidate you
       insurance?  
    
    o  There are ( pathetic ) arguments in favour of not wearing seatbelts,
       such as what happens if you trapped inside a car after crash then
       the seatbelt could hinder the escape ( or being cut out of the car
       ), but if the crash was severe enough to trap you inside a car in
       the first place then in all certainty it was severe enough to bounce
       you around the car enough to give you injuries, and in any case
       emergency personnel have the power tools available nowadays to cut
       anybody out of car very quickly.
    
    o  Since the mandatory wearing of seatbelts has been introduced in
       Great Britain ( where I live for my sins ) the road traffic accident
       rate and severity has been cut dramatically.
    
    
    Back to my original suggestion, to avoid some of the nastyness then if
    you are a two car family you could always put the child in one car and
    drive that, and insist that your hudband drives the other.  Of course
    you would have also insist that he drives behind you ( because, in
    general unfurtunately males drive faster ( and more wrecklessly and
    aggressively ) than their better �'s ( I hate people who generalize 
    :-)  )) on the excuse that if you break down he will be there to help.
    
    As you can see I have strong thoughts about this topic.  I hope this
    hasn't ruffled any feathers, Sorry if I have.
    
    
    Cheers
    
    Steven

    This is just a personal observation but..
    I find that in general in the US wearing of a seatbelt seems to be
    regarded as personal choice (along with wearing a helmet using a
    motorcycle). I'm not sure I understand this attitude - I guess it
    depends on where you grew up. When we were quite young there was this
    ad campaign to buckle up - the billboard caption read "are you being
    stupid?" For the longest time, when dad would pull the car out of the
    driveway, mom would ask us "anybody stupid back there?" It got to be a
    family ritual. 
    I do believe, Cheryl, that buckling up is law in Canada too - as I
    recall, Quebec just passed a law that the DRIVER can loose points if
    ANY of his passengers are not belted. 
    Actually, I am not sure of the exact legislations in the various
    provinces, since we are religous belters - I feel naked and in great
    danger when I even move the car without mine on.
    2 years ago we visited my husband's grandmother in Maine. One day he 
    suggested I take Gram along for the ride on a quick errand I was
    running. She got in the car and was waiting for me to move. I showed
    her were the belt was (most if not all Canadian cars have one belt - a
    combination lap and shoulder) and the "crusty old dame" said "I don't
    need one - I've never used one before". I, a very polite person with
    all my in-laws declared "the car isn't moving until everyone is 
    belted in" She laughed and gave in........
    I too have been in a bad accident - the belt was certainly a helpful 
    safety feature - saved me from being thrown across the driver when we
    got broadsided. Car: demolished. passengers: me, a small bruise on my
    shoulder. the driver: she'd had to run out of the car to get something
    during the journey and had forgotten to belt up again, she had a much
    larger bruise than I, but since the car hit us on my side, I would have
    suffered more had I not belted.
    
    Perhaps you can give your husband the idea that it's not so much
    himself he should worry about, but consider his loved ones and how they
    would feel should he be severely injured or killed in and accident as a
    result of not using a seat belt. You can be very zen about death or
    multilation yourself, but you don't live in a vaccuum - what are those
    around you going to feel?
    
    Monica

The day that the seatbelts are made more comfortable and convenient for
shorter people like myself, then I MIGHT wear them.  For now, I absolutely
refuse to wear a seatbelt - children or no.  I find them uncomfortable,
and absolutely worthless.  If I am in an accident, then I may or may not
be hurt.

I don't believe the government has any right to force me to wear a seatbelt,
and will fight to the hilt their desire to do so.

The passive belts are even more uncomfortable than the regular.  Would you
like to have to duck your head (or feel you should) when that stupid thing
is moving (when the door is opened or closed).  And who has to fix the
unit when it breaks (much activity to a moving part makes it tend to wear
out).  I am in favor of airbags and the like.  These are more acceptable to
myself than seatbelts.

We allow car companies to make cars smaller and thinner, and we then blame
ourselves for higher insurance.  The insurance company price gouging is what
is raising our rates, not other factors.  Look at that one company that was
planning on using the Florida hurricane to get rates increased across the
country - this while the executives make in the hundreds of thousands of
dollars in salaries (each!).

Do yourself and your husband a favor - don't nag him.  If he decides to
wear the belt then fine.  But, if he doesn't then that is his right.  You
will only cause hassles if you keep nagging.

Ed..

    >And who has to fix the unit when it breaks (much activity to a moving
    >part makes it tend to wear out).

    I don't know about other car makers, but Infiniti warrants them for the
    life of the vehicle.

    I hate mousebelts too, give me a good 3-point harness with or without
    airbag.

    Bob

The topic for this discussion is concerns about family members who will
not wear a seat belt, how to convince them to do so, consequences for
other members of the family, etc.  Except as they directly relate to that 
topic, discussions about seat belts in general, people who weren't injured
because they were wearing them, why we won't wear them ourselves, etc., are
not particularly relevant to this conference.

Thank you.

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator

    Thanks everyone for your responses.  Perhaps I should have entered this
    in a different conference (soapbox?!!!!) But, I didn't intend for it to
    become a discussion of the pros and cons of seatbelts!  Although I did
    ask how to get my husband (Jerry) to wear one, it'll be difficult to
    change his opinion, so mostly I'm needing ideas on how to explain to my
    son why daddy doesn't have to wear one.  And as another noter pointed
    out, it's not just the seatelt issue, but any issue that we may not
    necessarily agree on (such as smoking).  How do we come across as being
    consistent in the "rules" when one of us bends the rules for ourselves.
    Jerry and I both agree that all children need to be buckled in, but
    disagree when it comes to adults.  Anyway, I don't want to say anything
    that might make Jerry look "bad" - saying "some adults do not do the
    right thing" doesn't sound quite right to me.  .10 and .11 are probably
    right - once Matthew is older he'll probably start bugging his dad to
    buckle-up!   It's just that I know someday he'll question why the
    rules do not apply to some people, only to others.  Maybe I'll take
    Kristen's suggestion and just let Jerry explain that one himself!
    
    also, re .14 - you made some good points there that I had not thought
    of before (insurance, safety of other passengers).  I will probably
    mention these to Jerry when the topic comes up again.  We don't argue
    about this, or anything else for that matter, in front of Matthew.
    The few "conversations" we've had about this since Matt was born have
    looked like this:
    
    me:  Would you please buckle your seat belt?
    Jerry: (nothing)
    
    			And I'll drop the subject!  So I doubt if Matthew
    is picking up any clues on "how normal couples argue"!  :^)
    
    so - sorry about rambling.  Does this clarify (clearer than mud!) what
    I was looking for?  Bottomline is - how do you explain to kids that the
    rules are different for adults vs. children.
    
    

Sounds like you should ignore all the side issues and simply say to your
husband that when the question is asked, as it undoubtedly will one day,
you will leave it entirely to him to explain why he doesn't wear it but 
his son must.

>    me:  Would you please buckle your seat belt?
>    Jerry: (nothing)
>    
>                        And I'll drop the subject!  So I doubt if Matthew
>    is picking up any clues on "how normal couples argue"!  :^)

This kind of discussion does not tell your husband what your own concerns
are and unless you tell him your concerns ... ie his safety and your desire
to be consistent with your son, then any discussion with potential
disagreements will always be the same.  Remember that you cannot make
your husband do anything ... all you can do is set up situations that
might make him want to change, without being accusative.

For example, in wanting him to buckle his seatbelt ...  rather than say
"You'll probably kill yourself if you don't wear a seatbelt", say
something like, "I'm terrified of being a widow and raising a son
alone if you get killed in accident because you didn't wear a seat
belt".  

>    I was looking for?  Bottomline is - how do you explain to kids that the
>    rules are different for adults vs. children.

Bottom line is that the rules really are NOT significantly different for
adults and children, and shouldn't be!

Stuart

>    I was looking for?  Bottomline is - how do you explain to kids that the
>    rules are different for adults vs. children.

>> Bottom line is that the rules really are NOT significantly different for
>> adults and children, and shouldn't be!

I have to disagree on this one, at least as it pertains to seatbelts.  The
"rules" on seatbelts ARE differernt for adults and children, even though some
of us might wish the weren't !!

With my son (now going on 8) anytime we were in a car and he asked me why 
someone was not belted, I simply explained the LAW - children under the age of 
12 (in Massachusetts, at least) HAVE to be seat-belted or I/driver can get in 
trouble with the police - ADULTS have a CHOICE of whether or not to wear a 
seatbelt and some adults CHOOSE not to wear one.

In our family, Matt knows we ALL wear a belt and there's been no argument. 
But he does understand that for the adults, it's because we WANT to, whereas
with him, he HAS to.

    You missed my meaning here ...
    
    Yes, the law makes a difference, but the rules YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE BY
    as a family should be essentially the same, adult or child.
    
    Laws or not, we have family rules such as we don't ride without
    seatbelts, we don't eat sloppy foods in carpeted rooms, we try to
    avoid swear words and so on.
    
    Stuart

    Kinda late but .....
    
    
    Are you saying that YOU expect to live by the same rules as a 3-year
    old??  What time do you go to bed??  Most parents go to bed hours after
    their children - why is that different??  How come it's okay for
    Mom/Dad to have a beer, but Johnny can't?  Why can you drive, and they
    can't?  Why do I have to go to work all day, and it's okay for them to
    sit around and watch cartoons or play??  How come, if they're tired,
    they can go to sleep whenever they want, and their needs will be met,
    but if I'M tired, I have to make sure the family's needs are met before
    I can take that much-needed rest?  How come they can eat 2 pounds of
    cotton candy and it makes me sick to my stomach?  Why can I go on the
    big roller coaster and they can't?  How come when Mommy/Daddy get
    REALLY mad, it's okay to yell or maybe even swear, but it's NEVER okay
    for kids??  Why is it okay for me to disagree with the clerk at the
    store, but if THEY speak up to an adult, it's "talking back"?
    
    Come on, folks, the rules AREN'T the same, never have been, and never
    WILL be!!  You're only fooling yourself if you think they are!  Your
    kids sure know the difference!  They know if you're going outside Mom
    and Dad don't need to wear hats and gloves and snowpants and boots -
    but THEY do!
    
    The fact is, adults and children are not the same, are not capable of
    the same levels of reasoning, decision-making, and responsibility, and
    should not be treated that way.  Yes, we all know that Coffee is bad
    for us - but how many still drink it?  Now, of you, would you let your
    kids drink it?  How about have a beer?  Why not - it might relax them
    too!  
    
    I'm sorry, but in my house, there are rules for the adults, and rules
    for the kids, and in this instance, the answer is quite simply that
    Daddy does not want to wear a seatbelt, there is no law that requires
    Daddy to wear one, and that's HIS decision.  And when they're older
    they can make THEIR decision too.  Take the opportunity to explain the
    pros for wearing a seatbelt, so that hopefully you can influence your
    child to WANT to wear one, and stop trying to find an excuse for Dad. 
    He's an adult.  Yes, sometimes I swear.  My kids know better than to
    swear EVER!  There should be a clear line between adults and children,
    and adults obviously have more choices.
    
    Your kids don't tell you when it's time to go to bed .... the rules
    aren't the same!  You work to support the household and to provide for
    them.  There should be a type of "caste" system (not meant
    disrespectfully), where the dependents have less rights/privileges than
    those who provide everything.  And the providers should have more
    freedom of choice.
    
    What ever happened to "Not as long as you live under MY roof!"?
    
    I've always liked the catch-all answer .... "Because I'm the Mommy,
    THAT'S why!"  Stop arguing with your kids, start earning their respect,
    and try to teach them that there IS a difference between adults and
    children - maybe, just maybe, they'd rather not have all the pressures
    of an adult world!
    
    People are given as much as they can deal with - a three year old can
    only stack blocks, because stacking blocks is ALL the stress that a
    3-year old knows how to deal with.  They don't know how to deal with it
    when they try to empty the trash and it dumps all over the floor. 
    They're kid-people, they should have kid-rules.
    
    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want my mom coming in the
    bathroom to make sure I got all the shampoo out of my hair now ....
    
    

    You missed the point here Patty ...
    
    Yes, there are rules that are different for adults as opposed to
    children, but your standards in making those rules MUST BE CONSISTENT.
    
    For example ... we have a rule "no sloppy foods in carpeted areas of
    the house" ... why ... because I hate steam cleaning carpets and am
    not rich enough to either afford new carpets or have them
    professionally cleaned.  Now, the major culprits on this are the kids
    no doubt ... but I've dropped chocolate ice cream ... i've lost tomato
    sauce onto the floor ... just because I'm an adult doesn't mean I'm
    immune from slopping stuff.  So the rule applies to us all.
    
    No alcohol for the kids ... easy ... a) a child's body is smaller
    so cannot take much alcohol to make them ill, b) drinking alcohol
    has been shown to require maturity that normally comes with age
    (not always unfortunately  but that's another matter).  The law
    makes it both easy and difficult by defining a drinking age.
    
    No driving ... easy ... driving requires judgement skills that again
    normally comes with maturity.
    
    Now back to seatbelts ... the standard here is that in an accident
    people in a car, child or adult, run a grater risk of physical injury
    from a car crash without seatbelts.  Being an adult is not an advantage
    here.  How do you explain to your child that if you have an accident
    the child's seatbelt may save his life and at the same time say that
    it's OK if daddy dies because he isn't ?
    
    Yes, there are ADULT (note ... not PARENT) rules that are distinct from
    CHILD rules ... and in each case where the rules are different, it is
    because there is some factor such as maturity, or physical ability
    that makes the distinction.  But a lot of rules really cannot have
    a logical distinction why the adult and child rule is different ...
    and these are the ones that should be applied universally ... like
    the seat belt rule.
    
    Stuart
    

    This is late but here's my two cents worth....
    
    I am an EMT, I HAVE seen the death and destruction that a lack of seat
    belts has caused.  I am sitting here with lunch in front of me, and the
    mere reflection of what I have seen has a definiite impact on my
    appetite!
    
    My husband (also and EMT/firefighter/rescue worker) has seen probably
    more death and destruction than I.  He used to be rather casual about
    wearing his seatbelt.  The AJ started asking, no more like ordering
    him, "dad WHERE IS your seatbelt?"  He now wears in just about all the
    time.  I no longer have some of the same arguments as the basenoter,
    and ironically I received almost the same answer (or lack of).  I too
    tried the "I don't want you to die and leave me to raise this child
    alone" routine.  What *I* said seem to no penetrate his thick skull,
    but what AJ said made a definite, immediate impact on him.
    
    Oh my husband sent along a rather graphic comment for those who don't 
    wear seatbelts, because it might waste time getting out in a accident.  
    His comment was "that's fine, it will make it easier for the MEDICAL 
    EXAMINER to get the DEAD BODY out of the vehicle at the accident scene!  
    Unfortunately from what we've both seen, it's a rather accurate observation!
    
    Lyn

    Another factor which makes a difference between adult and kid rules is
    that in almost every instance the ADULT is either doing the work to
    repair the damage caused by the rule infraction OR the ADULT is paying
    another adult to have the damage fixed.  The point is that since the
    adult pays for the fix of the problem the rules can be different
    between adult and child.  
    
    Jeff

    Here's one for your husband --
    I was just a few cars behind a head on collision on RT 111 in Hudson,
    NH on friday.  3 people were involved.  There was a lady, her 3 year
    old son in one car and a man about 40 in the other car.  The lady
    for some unknown reason glided over the yellow line and the hit head
    on.  The boy was in a car seat, the man had his seatbelt on (his car
    was also equiped with an air bag), the mom didn't have her seatbelt on.
    
    The two with the seatbelts on lived (they had to go through some
    surgery but they are stable now)...The mom died upon arrival at the
    hospital.  
    
    Just a reminder that you really should wear your seatbelt.  I posted
    this in another file and I don't want to hear 'You can't tell me what
    to do" - I'm not telling you that you have to wear your seatbelts.
    
    This experience gave me a heads up - I wanted to pass that along.
    
    BTW - It was 10:00am in the morning - who would think?

    What you just described almost sounds like a very typical "mom"
    syndrome type of accident.  You will probably read later that the child
    dropped a toy, food or bottle on the floor and mom was bending over to
    retrieve it, and just swayed a little too far to the left. 
    Unfortunately it's a very commom scenario, one I've seen the end
    results a little too often.
    
    The whole story really gets to me in a big way, the poor child growing
    up not knowing his mother. I keep asking myself why?
    
    Lyn

    YEsterday, I totalled our car.  Yup.  Markus was with me in the front
    seat, the side where the guy drove into me.  We were both wearing seat
    belts, thank God, because with the speed that guy hit me, Markus would
    have been dead now.  I got a VERY minor bvruise on my leg (no spot,
    just sore) and I can't imagine where that leg has been.
    
    Guess we're a one car family now.  Should save on car expenses :-) (Hey
    wait a minute, wasn't the cheap living in another note ?  :-)
    
    Cheryl

	And Thank God you're both ok!

	Karen

    Good Grief!
    Its a sort of reminder that that kind of thing can happen to anybody,
    and ALWAYS when you least expect it!
    How's Markus? 
    I remember when I was the passenger in such an accident - I was in 
    shock for 1/2 a day!
    
    Monica
    I'm so glad you're both okay!

    I second the thought of Thank God you are both all right.  No matter
    how old you are, you may keep reliving the nightmare of the accident
    itself.
    
    I guess now you have to turn it around to a positive note....
    
    Now you can go shopping for a nice new car! 
    
    So glad neither one of you were hurt more seriously, thank heavens you
    had your seatbelts on!
    
    Lyn

    Markus seemed to have no problems whatsoever.  And thank you all for
    your thoughts.  I have to pass that corner all the time and can see
    very well how dangerous it is.  The principle road bends to the right
    but first makes a little hook to the left.  There is a building on  my
    right as I was driving so you can't see well but I was going very
    slowly and looked before going straight (the equivalent of a left
    turn).  This guy came literally out of nowhere and, because it was
    raining and he was going too fast, he couldn't stop.  Markus didn't see
    him either (although I don't know how much that is supporting Maman :-)  
    
    
    REgarding the bright side, well, it isn't a new car.  This is a good
    excuse to try living with one car again and cutting some of our costs,
    now that I am not working.  We'll look into a new car if I get a job
    :-)  I get the car one day a week for shopping and Jurgen takes the
    train that day.  Otherwise I go by bike.
    
    Thanks again to all of you!
    
    Cheryl

    I wanted to write an update to this note.  I am the basenoter who
    couldn;t get her husband to wear a seatbelt!  Well - he does now!
    I was floored the other day when we all went for a drive in 
    Daddy's new truck and Matthew (3 1/2) said "Daddy, wear your seat
    belt. It's a safety rule." and he did!!  Someone in this string
    had said that this might happen but I am still amazed.  Matthew
    watches Barney and loves to tell everyone all about the safety
    rules.  I am so glad his father listens to him!
    
    Lila
    

re: <<< Note 320.34 by CSC32::L_WHITMORE >>>
-< He's wearing his seatbelt!!!! >-

	Good job!  Now if only I can get my husband to wear his.  He
	only wears it if my driving makes him nervous or if the
	weather is bad.  He'll also put if on if I ask him but I
	know that when I'm not in the car, he goes without most of
	the time.  Lauren is too young to notice now (at not quite
	4 months of age), but eventually, she will notice.

	Karen

	

    Some drivers maintain that not wearing a seatbelt is a matter which
    effects only them.  If there are passengers in the car (or even if
    there aren't) the drivers ability to control the vehicle is improved
    by wearing a belt since it keeps the driver behind the wheel under
    bumpy or accident contitions.  If the driver has been thrown over to
    the passengers side it would be 'difficult' for him to control the 
    vehicle.  Also, the other passengers can be injured by his hurtling
    body.
    
    This doesn't even address the cost to society for caring for a more
    severely injured person because the person wasn't wearing a belt.
    
    It also doesn't address the effect on the hurt/killed persons family
    and friends.
    
    Its NOT strictly a matter that affects the only the person making the
    choice of not wearing a seatbelt.

    A little over a month ago we bought a new car with "passive" seatbelts. 
    I have a couple women friends, and I will frequently pick them up to do
    coffee of an errand.  Both of these women are very upfront about
    "hating" seatbelts, but really have no choice with these thing, they
    loosen and tighten up when the door is opened and closed.
    
    Now I know the SECRET! yes there is a latch, NO you don't actually have
    to have it across you all the time, but I'll be D**NED If I'm going to
    be the one to say "OK you don't have to wear one, let me disconnect it
    for you"  In my NEXT LIFE maybe!  I have an airbag on my side, I still
    do the passive and the lap belt, no matter how far I'm going!
    
    My husband doesn't complain about the seatbelt, but frequenlty needs to
    be reminded that he still has to buckle the lap belt.  Just a gentle
    reminder that he forgot, not a big deal for any of us!  Of course it is
    now a MA state law that ALL people MUST buckle up!
    
    Congratulations to you and hubby for voluntarily buckling up, this is
    the kind of business I really DON'T WANT!
    
    Lyn
    (The EMT and Mom!)