Conference moira::parenting

    Wendy,
    
    For the most part, I wholeheartedly agree with you! If we can get them
    used to it early, then they will hopefully have an easier time as
    adults, eating right.
    
    Only caution....
    
    the American Academy of Pediatrics, as well as 99.9% of physicians,
    will tell you that it is a very bad idea to limit fat in children undr
    the age of 2. They need the high fat content in their diets to promote
    the development of their nervous system, particularly their brains.
    Every doctor I've ever heard of advises breastmilk (which is very high
    in fat content) or formula, and then whole milk until 2. Then skin
    milk, or whatever is fine. Just not before they turn tow.
    
    --dave--

    And even after age 2, my pedi advises 2% milk (as opposed to skim or
    1%).  

    Ahhh, what a note!
    
    My husband is almost a vegetarian.  (We eat fish a couple of times a
    month.)  We don't eat meat at home, although I'll order it when we go
    out or at the cafeteria for lunch.  
    
    My daughter has never eaten any meat.  She had her first tuna last
    Saturday, and she is 2.  
    
    We have tried to limit her fat and sugar intake.  She only learned the
    word candy recently (because she never had any).  
    
    That said, this kid *loves* fat and sugar.  She adores chocolate and ice
    cream.  She smears butter on her bread, and will pick butter over
    margarine when given a choice.  (She also licks the butter off the
    bread, and then asks for more.)
    
    Our intentions are good.  She's fairly healthy and is not overweight.
    But she eats what she wants and it's hard to steer her to healthier
    choices, now that she knows where the treats are stored.
    
    I think the answer is to limit all junk in the house, but so far we
    haven't done that.  So, I guess we'll try to teach her moderation and
    give her treats so she doesn't feel deprived and have that lead to
    other eating disorders.
    
    judy

    
    Unless it is a lowfat margarine, butter and margarine have virtually 
    the same fat content.  It's just that butter is saturated fat while
    most margarine is not.  
    
    LaDonna

    My concerns over diet have varied with Lee, since he cannot have dairy 
    or peanut butter, to name a couple.  Since he lived on yogurt, cottage
    cheese, and peanut butter sandwiches (so it seemed at times!), I was 
    concerned about how to replace things he chose over chicken/meat (99% 
    of the time).  I was concerned he wouldn't get enough protein.  Fat was a 
    concern of my husband's, since he consumed so many dairy products.
    
    My ped and a health food specialist both said that children's bodies
    not only need the fat, but that as far as other dietary needs go, their
    bodies take care of their own needs (unlike adults).  If a child isn't 
    getting enough of a certain food/vitamin/mineral, they'll have what they 
    call "Protein hungers" (or other typical hungers) where they crave certain 
    things - things that will provide them what they are currently needing.  
    Interestingly, when we removed Lee from dairy (and supplemented with soy 
    milk and Tums tablets for calcium) he decided brocolli was just WONDERFUL! 
    (It's extremely high in calcium - 1 cup almost the same as a glass of milk,
    if I recall correctly.)  This happened about 3-4 weeks after dairy was
    removed from his diet.  Since then, we found a soy milk that is
    supplemented with calcium and vitamin D to simulate milk, and his zeal
    for brocolli has declined considerably since drinking this (which is
    high in fat, like milk, and which he drinks a lot of!).
    
    Lee also loves margarine on his bread, and would eat it plain if I let
    him.  I would prefer to give him butter, but since he cannot have
    dairy, his body will have to cope with the hydrogenized oils (?) that
    are supposedly not very good for you (along with some other crap we
    consume on a daily basis, not by choice....)
    
    I've just stopped worrying so much.  We try to balance his meals as
    best we can, and follow his cravings, too. We don't feed Lee junk, candy, 
    the likes (it's just not in the house).  His biggest treat is a cookie from
    the cookie club when he and Dad go grocery shopping on Saturday.
    
    If your child is over 2-3 years old and you think there is a problem,
    have your pedi check his/her cholesterol level.  Some children CAN have
    high levels (heredity plays a large role).  Exercise increases the HDL
    (if that's the good cholesterol), so if you're after a child who's
    healthy and doesn't grow up to have cholesterol problems later in life,
    don't go by diet alone....

    Under age 2, you should not limit fat in the diet, as a previous
    noter said.  I should think that you can choose between saturated
    and unsaturated fat, however.
    
    My kids are both on whole milk.  James is as skinny as a rail,
    and Hollis is still under age 2...I suspect we'll all start drinking
    2% milk again when she is old enough.  (Right now, Mike and I are
    drinking 1%).  Anyway, I found that James seems to need that milk
    fat in his diet.  He's a little less "touchy" than he was for a while
    there -- again, this may also be due to his growing up, but I really
    noticed after I started giving him whole milk again.  I think that
    as long as kids are getting plenty of physical activity, then fat
    should not be of too much concern.  
    
    FWIW, I've also heard of some pediatricians who prefer their little
    patients to be on whole milk till age 6.  I think it depends on the
    kid.  Some kids prefer the taste of 2%.  I always did, anyway.  
    
    Hey, .5, does your son do consulting?  I can't pay James to eat
    vegetables!!! :-)

    There are a lot of cultures in which dairy products, especially milk,
    aren't consumed. Does anyone use any alternatives to milk, such as 
    soy-milks with calcium added? Of course there are vegetables which supply 
    calcium. There's been a lot of research lately on the negative side of
    taking in so many dairy products/animal fats. Just wondered if anyone
    has explored non-diary solutions for their under 2 and over 2 year
    olds. 
    
    Cyn

    .6 - Nope, he doesn't.  Sorry.  However, I've heard of clever ways to
    get vegies in diets - slip zuchinni chunks into spaghetti sauce, puree
    cooked vegies and put into sauces/soups, and there's always carrot or
    zuchinni bread (tastes like cake, depending on how much sugar you put
    into the recipe, so it could pass as a *dessert* - just don't tell them
    it's "Zuchinni bread"!!).

    .7 - we must have entered our notes simultaneously.  
    
    Lee drink Soy milk that's supplemented with Calcium (to match that of 
    milk) & Vitamin D (like most cow's milk).  The brand is VitaSoy *Plus* (as
    opposed to just Vitasoy).  They have several flavors: Plain, vanilla,
    and I think some stores have chocolate or carob (not sure).  Lee drinks
    the vanilla - which they suggest if you aren't sure they'll like the 
    soy flavor.  I tried it and it really is quite good.  My husband said
    it almost tastes like a milkshake.  However, it is NOT sweet like soy
    formula (I think it does have a *little* sweetening, though, from rice 
    syrup).  Lee simply LOVES it; we call it "Special Milk".
    
    I've purchased the plain VitaSoy plus so I can make puddings, pancakes,
    and hope to soon try to make Soy Yogurt and add my own crushed fruits 
    (there's a note in the VEGETARIANISM notesfile on it).
    
    The healthfood stores will let you buy this by the case (12 boxes, 32
    oz per box).  It's not cheap (but cheaper than formula, which isn't as
    nutritious for a toddler), but they may cut you a deal if you buy in
    bulk.  The shelf life is quite respectable (unopened, of course), so
    you can easily get away with volume purchasing.
    
    Good luck!

    .7 - forgot to add, if it's important to you, that Lee is 2 yrs, 8
    months.
    

    Saying something like "Doctors recommend whole milk (because of the
    fat content) until the age of 2" is one of those misleading statements
    that I'm trying to figure out.

    	If a child has a high fat breakfast (butter, toast, maybe some
    bacon), a high fat lunch, (cheese, deli meat, mayo, cookies) snacks,
    (cookies) and then even *more* fat at dinner with ice cream for
    dessert, then I would venture to say that that particular child could
    benefit from a lower fat milk. (there is, after all, nothing magical
    about cow/animal fat).

    	If, however, most of the daily calories come from fruits and
    vegetables, and grains, then whole milk (or soy milk as in our case)
    would be very appropriate. (provided they are getting the proper
    amounts of calcium).

    	Again, I'm not talking about *limiting* fat in the diet, I'm
    talking about a healthy diet fro children (last week I was at the
    playground and was appalled at the number of obese (bellies hanging out
    of their shirts) older children).

    	I know that for adults, we should get no more than 30% of our daily
    calories from fat. Does anyone know what it is for children, perhaps no
    *less* than 30% calories from fat and no more than XX%?

    			Wendy

    From what I have read in various health newsletters and from the
    so-called child rearing experts, children over the age of 2 should
    indeed have a diet similar to an adults, with fat no higher than 30% of
    daily intake. For children under the age of 2, fat is an important
    element for growth, especially brain development(?), and that is often
    the reason for recommending whole milk.  Cheese, as mentioned, though,
    is another means for meeting the fat requirement.
    

    That hypothetical child in .11 would benefit from a new set of
    parents..
    
    One reason for recommending whole milk is that milk is food. Candy, ice
    cream, mayo, and deli meats don't compare. 
    
    Let's face it. It's tough enough getting them to eat without filling
    them with junk. My daughter managed to get 3 animal crackers yesterday
    morning while on a field trip; lunch was a futile effort. I refuse to
    view the crackers as having contributed to her daily need for protein,
    vitamins, etc. which she passed up in refusing lunch. I'd rather she
    get the carbos from whole grains or, at least, vitamin enriched
    cheerios and the fat from milk, meat, or cheese. She eats fruit and, if
    tomatoes count, eats vegetables. I may try that puree idea (thanks,
    Susan).
      
    
    Lucille

    	Just this past weekend, I saw advertised, a snack for children
    (presumably to put in lunch boxes) that consisted of cookies and
    *frosting*!!! for which to dunk the cookies in. Absolutely amazing.


    				Wendy

    	

    
    
    re -1
    
    
    	remember "pixie stix"? Flavored suger in sealed cardboard
    straws...nice and healthy (if you're up for a sugar high)...:*}
    
    
    
    jim s.