Conference moira::parenting

    I sometimes will get confused and call one of my twins by the wrong
    name.  They are quick to correct me though!  Usually it's when they
    first get up and their hair is all messed up, or when I'm tired that
    I make that blunder.  One has all one length long hair, the other one
    has long hair too, but she had bangs which are growing out now.  Once
    her hair gets to be all one length too, I guess I won't be able to rely
    on that way to tell them apart at a quick glance.
    
    When they were infants, I left their hospital bracelets on their ankles
    until they were snug and had to come off.  By that time I could tell
    them apart without a problem.
    
    As for pictures, one is always on the right and the other is always on
    the left.  This wasn't done on purpose actually, it just happened that
    way, so now we keep it that way for consistancy.
    
    Their friends in school still have a rough time telling them apart so
    when they want to talk to one of them they usually will say something
    like 'Hi Brittany-Brandy' and whoever it is will then identify herself.
    
    Hope this helps to satisfy your curiosity somewhat....
    

    
     My Wife gave birth to twins 6 weeks ago and I was just wondering if you
    had any tips on feed,changing and when your on the move.It's easy when
    we're both there but when there is just one....
    
    
                                                   SCott

    My sons are 2 years apart, one blond one brunette and I still call them
    the wrong names!  Thank heaven I don't have twins or there would be a
    real identity crisis in my house.
    
    As far as "being on the move" with twins - while they are small, it
    shouldn't be too hard in the sense of they will take up little space. 
    I imagine you'd need two of everything when they get older.  You wife
    may also want to reply on a back-pak or chest-pak for one infant while
    the other is in a stroller or being carried.  Most shopping carts in
    the big stores will have infant seats on them - or your infant seat
    will fit on top nicely (try to get one that will work).  I had two
    little ones for awhile - I babysat a friends child who was 6 weeks
    younger than my youngest.  I used the assembly system as they got
    older.  Change her, set her in high chair for finger foods, change him,
    set him on floor for more play, spoon feed her, clean up and put him in
    high chair and so forth.  Luckily they both napped at the same time so
    I had time for my (then) three year old too!  AS they get older the
    amount of time spent "doing" for each will be less because they will
    learn to "do" for themselves.
    
    Good luck!!
    -sandy
    

    re: .3
    
    Boy, that's the truth, Sandy . . . 
    
    Me: "Steven, stop hanging on the refrigerator door, you're going to
    break the hinge!"
    
    Steven, from the other room, "I'm not even near the refrigerator!"
    
    David, from refrigerator door: giggles and picks up feet. 
    
    Me: tears hair out. 
    
    --bonnie

When my twins were infants, I staggered their eating schedules by about
15 minutes so I could feed one, then the other. I also changed them at
the same time.  I didn't find them to be twice as much work as lots of
people thought they'd be since I kept them on the same schedule, and their
needs were basically the same.  But I also had the advantage(??) of only
having 1 home for quite a while before the other one came home, so got
used to 1 baby at a time.  Now that they are older (14 months), I find
that keeping them on the same schedule is a definite plus as I can plan
things around them as needed.   My sitter has her routine down so well
that when she takes them to the beach (which is every day that is beach
weather), she can carry both kids (one in a backpack), 1 porta-crib, the
diaper bag and the cooler with lunch in 1 trip.  It just takes a little
getting used to and some organization, and you'll find it's not that tough.

Back around Christmas, both my husband and I used to take the kids shopping
alone, and neither of us had any trouble managing the 2 of them including
doing diaper changes and feedings.  You get very adept at these things
and learn to feed the one who cries loudest first while rocking the other
in the stroller.  We have never not done something because it would be
more difficult bringing the kids.  We have always managed to adjust 
accordingly.  

And as far as calling them by the wrong names, I've got a boy and a girl
and I still get them confused.  I think it's fairly common to call kids
by the wrong name (my mom always called me by my brother's name, and we're
15 years apart), and I usually end up with 'Jessica-Brad-whoever-you-are'.
They don't seem to notice.

And I don't have 2 of everything -- just the big things like cribs, porta-
cribs, high chairs, and backpacks.  I have 1 of everything else (jumper,
twin stroller, toys etc.) And I buy lots of unisex clothes so that they
can wear anything, although I have been known to put Brad in a pink sleeper
or Jessica in a blue snowsuit.  I figure I know they're a boy and a girl,
and it's much easier to carry generic outfits in the diaper bag as Brad 
more often needs his clothes changed than Jessica.

Twins are absolutely great!!
Cathy

>> .4 at least I haven't called either of them by the cat's name yet

Lucky you!  I am constantly confusing the dog (Baron) with his "brother in sin"
(Markus).  I've even found myself, when Markus gets too wild, saying "SIT" to
him :-)

Cheryl

    re .5:  Cathy,
            Boy do I remember that stage!!!  My twins are 9 years old now
    	    and I've been a single parent since they were infants.
    	    Once my two started walking they were constantly on the go!
    	    (and I was so thin from chasing after them all the time!!).
    	    I remember when they started walking, I'ld take them outside
    	    and they would scatter!  I would have to assess who was in the
    	    most danger and go after her, scoop her up and then go after
    	    the other one!  Who needs a gym, when you have twins to keep
            you in shape!
    
    	    From the time they were three or four until they were about
    	    six, what one didn't think of the other one did!! 
            Everything from cutting each others hair <YICKS!!> to covering
    	    each other (as well as the bathroom) in blue vanish.  Luckily
            they didn't drink any of it, but they were little blue smurfs
            for a while!!!
    
            From about six years to 9 years they fought alot!!  I'ld have
    	    to laugh though when one would stand in front of her sister,
            hands on hips and fuming with anger and shout "YOUR UGLY!"
            to her identical twin sister!!!  Now, at 9 years old they
            seem to get along alot better...  I wonder what's next
            though???
    
    enjoy!
    
    ~S
    

    I only have *one* child and I have trouble with names. I call my husband
    by my son's name and vice versa.  I have also been known to call my son
    by the cat's name (Sam).  I haven't yet called my husband by the cat's
    name but there's still time!
    
    Twins sound like fun to me. Insane, but fun.
    
    LaDonna

    To sort of change the subject slightly:
    
    How do parents of twins handle the situation where one twin is MUCH 
    more demanding than the other one?  My son has become incredibly
    demanding, in that all my time seems to be spent watching and caring
    and cuddling to him, while my daughter is left to fend for her self.
    If I am spending time with my daughter (like giving her her bath), my
    son screams until I'm done, thereby making the time with my daughter
    a tad stressful!  (By the way, they are 9 months old)
    
    Thanks for any tips!
    
    Jennifer
    

    Jennifer,
    
    What I would do when mine were babies and both of them where screaming
    for attention at the same time was to put one in the wind-up swing with
    a teething ring or something while I took care of her sister.  That
    would keep them pretty happy.  Eventually they realize that they have
    to share your attention, but they have a while yet to go!  Also,
    when they're teething they seem to be more clingy(sp?).
    
    Don't be surprised if just when you have gotten used to one being more
    demanding then the other, that they switch on you!  One of mine will
    be more agressive and one more passive, however about every six months
    or so they switch roles on me!  It's very confusing sometimes....
    
    enjoy!
    ~S
    

    I know that Isaac is teething - he got four teeth in about four
    weeks and I know that they hurt.  I never thought about them 
    switching roles but I bet that's true.  Thanks!
    
    Jennifer

Well, I accidently intermix the dogs, cats, kids, and husband's names all the
time.  It only bothers me when I accidently call my current husband by my
first husband's name.

As Miss Manners says, "Why do you think they invented the name 'Darling'?"

    Name swapping has become such a problem at our home that I finally
    solved it by adding a prefix to one of their names.
    
    My kids names are Michael and Amber. It seemed every time I wanted
    Amber, I would start to say Michael. At first Amber was offended
    until she realized it sounded like My Amber (Mi...Amber). I now
    automatically call her My Amber and she is happy and I don't have
    to stop and think who I'm calling.  I don't seem to have as much 
    problem with Michael and if I did he probably wouldn't even notice,
    so his name remains the same.
    
    When I was a kid I had a step-brother and sister named Sherry and Kit.
    My step-father was always have trouble with their names and found
    great frustration in that fact.  Finally he just conjugated their
    names and called them Sh*t. :^)
    
    Jodi-

My older sister's nickname was Mickie -- and I always seemed to be called
McDebbie.

    My mother called us all Jody-Tracy-David-what's-your-name-kid?  My
    father still calls David, who lives with him, Jody (who doesn't live
    there) all the time.  
    
    I also call Caileigh and Paige the wrong names all the time; often,
    they're Paley and Cage!
    

re .12:

>It only bothers me when I accidently call my current husband by my
>first husband's name.

Johnny Carson has avoided this problem by always marrying women names "Joanne."

    
    You can probably understand why I confuse everyone's names in our house:
    
    Keeghan - golden retriever #1
    Keisha  - golden retriever #1
    Cally   - cat
    Kelsey  - daughter #2
    Shannon - daughter #1
    
    I usually end up dragging out the "k" sound until I can figure out the
    rest of the name.
    
    Carol
    

    Since the birth of our son, Nicholas, every one in our household has new
    names!
    		Nick-David  Husband
    		Nick-Katie  Step-daughter
    		Nick-Jilly  Dog
    		Nick-Bubba  Dog
     		Nick-Maude  Cat
    		Nick-       Anyone else that comes in the house!
    
    Angie

    When I was growing up, we spent a lot of time with cousins. We were
    named  -  Sarah(me), Susan, Sharon
    Nobody called us by the right names, ever.  It was always "Su-Shar-Sa"
    I have it a little easier.  My son and my husband are both named David.
    After spending all day with them, the names of our two dogs and two
    cats suddenly become "David", too.  Twins?  Unless you follow George
    Foreman's lead and call them all George...
    Sarah 

    
     one of my twins has started sleeping inbeside us,She won't sleep in her
    cot but as soon as we take her in our bed she falls asleep,then we'll
    try to put her down but she'll start crying.we tryed leaving her for a
    while but she doasn't stop crying.Is this OK or should we try and put
    an end to this before she gets older...she's 2 months.
    
    
                                                             SCott 

    If she needs a warm body - what about putting her in with her twin? 
    She will most likely grow out of it, but how long can you go without
    sleep - it's hard to get a good nights sleep while you are trying not
    to roll over on the little one.  You might also try a hot water bottle
    if it's warmth she's looking for.  If it's your body smell she likes,
    let her sleep with one of your t-shirts (or the like) wrapped around
    the hot water bottle.  Personally, I don't see a big problem with it
    for now, but it can to be a difficult habit to break later on!
    
    -sandy
    

     She sleeps with her sister.At what age does it become a broblem to get
    them into there own bed?.
    
                             SCott

    
    	This may not have anything to do with your baby, but our baby did
    this when she was two months old.  SHe woudln't sleep in her crib, only
    on or next to either my husband or me.  We tried to let her cry it out,
    but she still wouldn't sleep. This came on rather suddenly, and lasted
    a couple of nights.
    
    Finally after one sleepless night, we took her to the doctor.  She
    had an ear infection.  She showed no other signs of an ear infection
    EXCEPT that she wanted to sleep with us!
    
    Once we started her on antibiotics, she was fine.
    
    Again, this might not be the case with you, but it might be worth
    checking out!
    
    Justine

    
     I never thought of that.She had a wee infection when she was born,That
    might have flared up again...I'll check that out thanks.
    
    
    SCott

    Scott-
    
    We put our twins in their own respective cribs right from the start.
    This never seemed to be a problem.
    
    Jennifer
    

    
    Jennifer,
    
     They sleep on there own during the day,They would at night as well but
    we've only got room for one in our bedroom.
    
    
    SCott

    My girls slept together in the same crib until they started chewing
    each others hair and feet, then at about 8 months I had to put them
    in separate cribs.  When they were real tiny, I would put one on either
    end of the crib.  Throughout the night as I would check on them they
    would first have both gathered in the middle of the crib and then would
    slowly circle the middle of the crib together.  They loved being
    together so much that after I put them in separate cribs and put the
    cribs on either ends of the room, they demolished the cribs by shaking
    them until they were together in the center of the room.  Six months of
    that constant shaking and the cribs were ready for the trash heap!
    
    
    Yours are two months old now you say?  In about a month or two, they
    will 'discover' each other.  You'll know what I mean when they do it!!
    It's absolutly precious!
    
    

    Did you have a favourite???

    I don't have twins, but maybe the problem is that the tiny little
    person does not feel confortable in wide open spaces??  Shannon was so
    little when she came home (5 lbs) that she would not sleep unless
    there was a rolled blanket shaped like a womb around her.  We tried to
    put her in her crib, but she preferred a basinet with the "womb".  She
    stayed in that till she could roll over.

    re: 28
    
    Scott,
    
    I tried not to play favorates with them which was hard.  What I found
    for myself, was that each one would have traits about her that I liked
    best.  It was also hard not to think of them as a 'unit' ie 'the
    twins'.  Brandy was more aggressive when it came to food, therefore she
    was heavier, not fat, but heavier.  Brittany was more fussy and more
    petite.  I caught them one time in their playpen like this:
    Brittany pinned on her back screaming bloody murder, Brandy sitting on
    Brittany's chest with her bottle in her mouth and holding Brittany's
    bottle up out of Brittany's reach, apparently intending to drink it
    after finishing her own! This was when they were about 6 months old...
    
    So, I liked Brandy's aggressiveness and her ingenuity as much as I
    liked Brittany's cuteness and petitness.  However about six months later
    they switched roles and Brittany became the aggressor and Brandy was
    the aggressee I guess you would say. Since then they have switched
    rolls so often I've lost track!
    
    Today, (eight and a half years later..) Brandy is generally the best
    behaved and most mature. Brittany spends most of her time in trouble
    and is less mature than her sister....
    I suspect this too will change... again..
    
    Sharon
    

    
    Sharon,
    
         Sarah is the biggest twin,I often wonder if I left her alone that
      she'd make her own bottles and feed her self @:^))))
         Where as Rebecca has more of a temper and lets you know when she's
      not happy.
         I've tried not to think off them as a unit and as there own
    people.
    
    
         SCott

    Scott,
    
    She just might surprise you!  I remember one time when my girls were
    just a couple of months old (and mum wasn't moving fast enough to get
    there bottles) I looked over and one (it was probably Brandy) was
    sucking on her sisters nose with gusto!!!  Needless to say, I quickly
    got those bottles for them!
    
    Even today Brandy is a much better eater then Brittany.  Brandy and I
    finish dinner about the same time, then we have to sit at the table for
    another half and hour to 45 minutes waiting for Brittany to finish
    picking at her food and eat.  It gets irritating sometimes!!!
    
    Chow
    

    re: baby sleeping in parents' bed.
    
    Our son Neel (2 months) did that about a month ago. He would fall
    asleep in our bed and then wake up crying when I put him in his crib
    which in our room. I figured that a cold bed was waking him up. So just
    before I put him in his crib, I kept a heating pad (electric) on the
    place where I put him down. This warmed up the mattress enough for him
    to feel comfy and thus not wake up the moment I put him in his crib 
    (I did take the heating pad away before I put him inthe crib!). 
    NOTE: DO NOT KEEP AN ELECTRIC HEATING PAD NEAR THE BABY (I feel better
    having said that).
    
    Also, now Neel will fall asleep in my arms but wake up as soon as I put
    him down if he is still hungry.
    
    Shaila

    Sharon,
           That's something I love about he twins when there hungry the way
     they try to eat each other.Once I put them up side down on there
     changing mat  and they got a hold of each others top lip and started
     sucking away...it was so funny.
    
     re Warm bed.
    
           Thanks...I'll give that a try tonight.
    
    
    SCott

    I have twin boys that will be a month old on Thursday, July 23rd.
    Right now I have them both in the same crib and I asked my doctor
    when I should separate them and he said, that when one moves or cries
    and wakes the other up, then it was time to move them.  When I go
    in to get them, I find them huddled together and it's so cute.
    
    My son Patrick is the more aggressive one and let's you know when
    he's hungry or needs something.  Benjamin on the other had, it quiet
    and laid back.  I sometimes find myself enjoying Benjamin more because
    he is quiet and laid back and is content to just lay in your arms,
    where as Patrick doesn't always like it.  
    
    Does your daughter cry no matter what time you try putting her back
    in the crib or is it just at a certain time?  I'm finding that Patrick
    has a crying fit from 9PM till 11PM and no matter where I try to put
    him, it doesn't work.  I usually end up laying down with him on top
    of me and this is the only thing that works.  This crying fit just
    recently started.
    
    Cheryl
    

    My twins are nearly fifteen months old and have had very different
    personalities from the moment they were born (one minute apart)!  
    
    When they were very small they slept in the same cot, next to one
    another. Then when space became a problem they moved into adjacent
    cots. They can see one another and pass toys to and fro, Rosalind has
    been known to lean through and pull James' hair when he's asleep and
    she's impatient for him to wake. They have slept through since they
    were 12 weeks old apart from the odd night when they've been unwell.
    The amazing thing is that one twin can be screaming and the other is
    fast asleep completely oblivious to the noise.
    
    On the feeding front, I breast and bottle fed till four months and then
    bottle only. When I was breast feeding I used to feed them both
    together (one on each side, with pillows to position them correctly). 
    One always used to finish before the other, and so I would wind (or top
    up with a bottle depending on the time of day) that
    one whilst the other finished noshing and then lay him/her onto a
    blanket at my feet and repeat the wind/topup routine with the other
    one. When they were both onto bottles it was simply put them into baby
    chairs next to each other and feed in parallel... When my husband was
    at home we would each feed a baby.
    
    Now they sit at the table in their high chairs and spread food
    liberally around the kitchen. Some days Rosalind will be ravenous and eat
    everything that is put in front of her and her brother and on other
    days James will be the ravenous scavenger. It seems to balance out and
    they soon let us know when they are hungry or thirsty.
    
    Judith
    

    I just found out that the Stride Rite store at the Pheasant Lane
    Mall in Nashua gives a 10% discount on their shoes when purchasing
    them for twins.
    
    Jennifer
    

    Help.  I have 6 week old twins and one of them is driving me nuts.  The
    problem I'm having is feedings.  Here's my problem:
    
    Since coming home from the hospital, the boys have gone from a 10PM
    feeding till 5:30 - 6:00 AM the next morning.  Just recently Patrick
    is waking up 4 1/2 - 5 hours after the last feeding.  He is also
    looking for more 3 1/2 hours after the 6PM feeding.  Him and his
    brother are getting 5 oz every 4 hours during the day.  If I try giving
    more, he spits it up.  
    
    Is this temporary?  His time span at night is getting shorter instead
    of longer.  I don't know what to do and I'm feeling bad for my husband
    who helps feed.  I have had both boys on the same feeding schedule
    since birth.  
    
    Need advise please, he's driving me crazy.
    
    Cheryl
      

    Cheryl-
    
    Are you nursing them or feeding them with formula?  If nursing, I would
    suggest giving the hungrier of the two formula.  Actually, getting
    five hours of straight sleep a night is fantastic!  My twins had us up
    about every three hours for the first three months!  Perhaps you could
    try feeding the hungrier baby a little earlier and then again right
    before bed?
    
    Just remember that is DOES get easier!
    
    Jennifer
    

    Cheryl,
    
    Babies tend to have a growth spurt at around 6 weeks. It sounds like
    that is what's happening. I would take .-1's suggestion and try feeding
    the little guy a little more before bedtime. Good luck!!
    
    
    -Sheila
    

    
    as .39 said, sleeping that long at 6 weeks is already an
    accomplishment I think.  I didn't have twins but, Michael wasn't sleeping 
    through the night until about 8-10 wks..
    
    good luck,
    
    chris
    

    My doctor was 26 weeks pregnant with twins when she delivered my
    baby (Charlotte) this May -- I just found out she had two boys 10
    days ago; I believe that makes it at 37 weeks - 6+ and 7+ pounds!
    
    My doctor never fails to impress me.....8-)
    
    Monica
    

      One of my twins has started to teeth,She's only 12 weeks,is this the
    norm or is this early?.

      Another thing,Rebecca(Becks(the teething one)) has started sleeping thru the
    night but only if she's inbeside us but Sarah still wants a feed about
    4 am.I heard that if you only give them a drink they'll soon realize
    that it's not worth getting up for so she'll go back to sleep,Any truth
    to this?. 

      Not really of much interest to anyone but I'll tell you anyway @:^)
    Sarah now weighs 11plds 8oz (she was 4,6 at birth) and Becks is 9 plds
    1oz (4,4 at birth)
    
    
     Scott

    Scott,
    
    My son Patrick (who was smaller at birth and is now the bigger) wakes
    up at 4:30 AM every day no matter what time he gets fed at night. 
    Benjamin (the bigger at birth and now the smaller) I usually end up
    waking up to feed. 
    
    Patrick is a little colicky and has his fits at night and what worked
    to calm him down was to run the vaccumn cleaner and to put a quilt or
    something soft in his crib for him to lay on.  Instead of running the
    vaccumn all the time we taped it.  
    
    What I find that works when he wakes up at 4:30, is I give him his
    binky, put the tape on and rub his back.  He goes back to sleep and I
    usually can get him to go another hour to be fed at 5:30 AM.  This
    works out great because my husband will help feed prior to leaving for
    work.  
    
    If I was to give Patrick a drink at 4:30, I know it wouldn't satisfy
    him and he would still be screaming for more.  
    
    What time is the girls last feeding at night?  My boys last bottle is
    between 9PM and 10PM and then they are down for the night.  
    
    Cheryl 
    (My boys are 9 weeks old today)
    

    Cheryl,
    
               There last feed is about 9-10pm.We've tryed waiting till
    about midnight but Sarah is still up for a feed at about 4am.
    
       If you bottle feed,how do you get on when they want fed at the same 
    time but you've no one to help you??.
    
    SCott

I bottle-fed my twins, and usually fed Brad first as he ate much faster than
Jessica, so I didn't have to hurry him to get to her.  As they got older,
I fed the one who cried the loudest first to save my sanity.  I also started
feeding both together as they got older.  I would either lay them on the floor
or put them in their carseats and hold a bottle in each hand.  That worked OK
once we stopped having to burp Brad after every ounce.  I tried a bunch of
things and settled on what worked best for us.

    I know this sounds just awful, but since it was only me taking care
    of two babies...  I would put both of their infant seats on the
    couch about a foot and a half apart, strap them in, put a couch pillow
    on their laps, pop the bottle in and have it resting on the pillow so
    it was high enough for them to get their formula.  I would be sitting
    in between the two infant seats of course to make sure no one started
    choking.  This way, my hands were free for whoever needed burping,
    mouth wiped, etc...
    

    
    
    	My sister in law does this all the time.. she only has one
    but, she takes a towel and leans the baby back in his car seat.
    This way she doesn't have to hold him.  He learned how to hold
    his own bottle very quickly.
    
    	She usally was doing the folding of the laundry while he ate.
    	This way she was keeping an eye on him but, doing somthing
    	productive.
    
    Seemed to work.. 

    When I have to feed by myself, I use my oldest sons bean bag chair.
    I position them both in, sit on the couch with them facing me and
    hold both the bottles.  Then I will burp both of them and start the
    process again.  Of course Patrick is the screamer while I burp his
    brother, but he gets over it.  
    
    Luckily I've had my son Matthew around and my mother comes daily to
    help with the feedings.  Next week I'm on my own since my mother is on
    vacation and my son will be in school full time.  A part of me is
    looking forward to it and the other half is scared.  
    
    The last 4 days both my sons get fed at 9 - 9:30PM and will sleep till
    6:30 AM.  No sound from either one of them.  
    
    I have a question for the other parents of twins....
    
    My son Patrick is colicky and I find I'm constantly holding him becuase
    of his crying and poor Benjamin is left out.  I feel terrible that I
    can't hold Benjamin as much.  Did other parents experience this and if
    so, how did you overcome your feelings?
    
    Everyone tells me that the colic only lasts till 3 months.  Well, the
    boys will be 10 weeks old tomorrow, so I guess I only have 2 - 3 more
    weeks left until he changes.
    
    Cheryl
    

    Cheryl-
    
    We have always had the problem of holding one baby more often than
    the other.  What we usually end up doing is letting the baby that is
    help more often "cry it out" a little so that the other baby gets
    more attention.  For the most part this works.  
    
    Jennifer
    

    Cheryl,
    
    We always give the cuddles to the one who is feeling unwell and needing
    the attention. The other parent, when around, cuddles the other babe. So 
    far this seems to work out...
    
    This week James has modified measles (called thus because he's been
    imunised) and wants cuddles all the time. Rosalind mean while is in
    fine fettle and is happy to be fairly independent.
    
    Twins are a lot of work in the early days but it gets better and better
    all the time. At 15 months my two play together and seem to me to be
    less work than one (mind you I have never had one).
    
    I hope that the colic clears up soon.
    
    Judith
    

    Glad to see a note on twins!
    
    We have 2 year old twin girls, Chelsey and Ashley.  And while the
    logistics of caring for them gets easier, the energy needed to keep up
    with them has increased considerably.  I now know where children get
    all their energy, they suck it out of the parents!
    
    Even though I was aware that other parents of twins go through guilt
    feelings about not being able to give what you think is the right
    amount of attention to each of them (because you have to split the time
    you have between two..), it's nice to see it in print!
    
    Our twins have also changed roles numerous times..for awhile there,
    we'd go into their bedroom (they share one) in the morning and ask them 
    which one they where today.  This seemed to happen alot more when they
    where younger, since turning 1 1/2, we've seen it less often, or we've
    just gotten used to it.
    
    I read someone's rule of thumb with children once, in fact I think it
    was Dr. T. Barry Braselton who said when referring to child parent
    power struggles, "If it's not important to you, the child wins, if it
    is important to you, then you win."  I can't tell you how many times
    I've reminded myself of this and saved my sanity with it. It really
    works for us, and I'm less stressed from feeling guilty about saying NO
    so often, since this rule of thumb reminds me that it's ok to let them
    win on occassion.  However, they are very in-tune to when something is
    important to mom and dad, and most of the time there is little to no
    struggle.  Maybe that's because we do let them be the victor at
    appropriate times?
    
    I think that the best thing about having twins is that they have each
    other.  I can not imagine the demands that are put on parents by a
    single child, since the parent's are that single childs only source of
    entertainment.  On the other hand, I don't think there are situations
    more taxing then when both twins demand the parents attention at the
    same time!  I wish I had a rule of thumb for that one!
    
    Question:  How old where your babies when you took them off the bottle,
    and is there an age when they should be weened?  Our girls still have a
    morning bottle, naptime and evening (and yes they do get them in their
    cribs and I know the cons with that.)  Will they tell you when they are
    ready, or is it something that you need to initiate?
    
    Nice to be able to bond with other moms and dads of tandom children!
    
    Cynthia
    

<    Question:  How old where your babies when you took them off the bottle,
<    and is there an age when they should be weened?  
    
Hi, Cynthia!  Check out notes 34.* ("Weaning from Breast/Bottle") for info 
on weaning.  I think you'll find a lot of good info there!

       Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

    	I have a friend who has twins, a boy and girl 3 years old. She has
    recently moved both of the kids into the same room and it now is very
    difficult to have them settle down an go to sleep, since they are now 
    very active keeping one another awake in their room talking and playing.

    	They also now both wake up early together, rather then one child 
    continuing to sleep while the other is awake...as was the case when
    both kids had their own rooms. The upside to this is that her son now seems
    to get up less during the night.

	My friend tells me that since they are twins they should share the 
    same room. She has told me that her doctor has said that they should 
    remain in the same room till age 7 for the bonding that twins require.
    
    	Is this true? Has anyone else heard this? Has this been stated in any 
	books, covering the raising of twins.
    
    	Are there any good books on this subject available?
    
    	BTW - My friend is a single parent...
    
    								Thanks
    

    
    I thought that fraternal twins were just like regular
    brother and sisters who happened to be born at the same
    time.  I know that genetically, that is true.
    
    My sister and I (twins) shared the same room, but we would have 
    if we were born a year apart also...
    
    Amy

My boy-girl twins are 20 months old, and share the same room now, but they
will be put into separate rooms when they  move out of their cribs and into
regular beds. I can't imagine moving them together after them being apart.
And I don't give any credibility to that theory about them sharing a room so
that they can bond.  You wouldn't do that with brother and sister born at 
different times, so why should twins be treated any differently especially
to such an advanced age as 7 years old?   I guess I just don't see any reason
for twins to need to have special bonding whether they are same sex or 
opposite sex, and I would really question a doctor who thought that but didn't
have the same opinion about other siblings doing similar things.  It reminds 
me of all the old myths around twins and how they are peculiar instead of 
treating them as normal kids.

If I were her, I would separate them again.  It doesn't sound like space
is an issue as they had their own rooms before, so why can't they move
back into them?  

My philosophy regarding my children is that they are individuals, and I have
always treated them as such.  I don't treat them as a unit, I don't dress them
alike, and I don't buy 2 of everything. Heck, I don't even refer to them as 
my twins.  I always call them the babies or the kids, and have to think who 
people mean when they ask how the twins are.

Cathy

    My girlfriends twins are 6 years old and have always had seperate 
    rooms.  They are in first grade now and the school system makes 
    sure that twins are in seperate classrooms so they can develop as
    individuals.  They are very close, but Danny likes his boy things
    and Kelly her girls toys....I can't imagine them sharing the same
    room now....I don't think they would be too happy.  
    
    

Why would it be important for twins to bond to any greater degree than
other siblings ?  Wouldn't most parents want their children to be close
to each other, but to develop into independent adults able to live their
own lives ?

Leslie

    In the minority here, and not even the voice of experience (I have a
    singleton).  But, if I had had twins, I wouldn't have entertained the
    notion of separating them until approx. age 6, and only then if they
    were boy/girl.  AND, I would find a school system which WOULD keep them
    in the same classroom, unless the twins themselves were adamant about
    wanting to be separated.  If that were the case, I'd do it on a trial
    basis for one year.
    
    The question, to me, is not whether the parent can create a bond
    between the twins by putting them BACK together (sharing a room after 
    being separated), but whether (and why!) the parent feels it's
    important to challenge the innate bond they forged IN UTERO!
    
    Yes, I agree each is an individual.  But there are myriad ways of
    emphasizing their unique talents and differences without physically
    separating them, IMNSHO.
    
    Leslie 
    the parent

    re: .59
    
    Um, seeing that you don't have twins and have no experience with twins
    perhaps you don't understand the importance of them as individual
    people.  There is absolutely no need for twins to be together 24 hours
    a day.  If they are always together they don't develop their own
    individuality, meaning they are considered "a pair", "not whole without
    the other", "the twins".  They need time to be on their own without
    their twin.  Plus, most twins have such a bond with each other that
    when they are together they are completely focused on each other - not
    the teacher.  When they are seperated in school they have a chance to
    make their own friends and be considered an individual with a unique
    personality.
    
    My twins are identical, there is a bond there no matter what.  They
    don't need to be forced together in every situation (I think they would
    start to resent their twin if that were the case.)  When they started
    kindergarden there were three other sets of identical twins in
    kindergarden with them, they all were seperated (into two different 
    kindergarden classes).  They've been seperated in school all along (
    they're in 4th grade now).  When they were in 2nd and 3rd grade there
    where 5 sets of identical twins and 1 set of fraternal twins all in the
    same grade.(must have been something in the water back in '82 ;^})
    After school they are in extended day together, they play together 
    at night and on weekends as well.  School is about the only time
    they get a break from each other.
    
    Just my .02
    Sharon
    

    Geez, what are the chances of having that many identical twins in the 
    same grade at the same school?
    
    
    Jodi-

    
    We had six pairs of twins in 6th grade... also blamed the water.
    
    Most people seem to think of identical twins and the  need to be
    seperate.  My sister and I (fraternal twins) needed to be in seperate
    classes.  Even though we are very different from eachother and 
    excel at different things (technical vs. literal) - many people
    would not allow us to be different if they met us as the twins.  Being
    seperated in school allowed us to be looked at as ourselves, not 
    as the twin.
    
    Amy

>>       <<< Note 208.62 by LMOPST::PINCK::GREEN "Long Live the Duck!!!" >>>
    
    ah! Somebody who is a twin!
    
    As teh father of identical twins, I'll ask,
    
    Would you seperate twins or keep them together? How about dress them
    alike or conciously dress them differently?
    
    eagerly awaiting your thoughts,
    
    Simon

    
    My husband has a twin sister.  He didn't enjoy being
    dressed in the "boys" version of an outfit etc.  He
    has always strived to be independent.  In school he
    hated being in the same classroom with his sister 
    because she would go home and tell on him if he got
    into trouble.   
    
    He seems to be closer to his older sister, they are
    very good friends.  His twin tries to order him around
    more since she is his twin (gee, I thought that's what
    wives are for ;-) ).  
    
    Also we are expecting our second child due July 19th.  Their
    birthday is June 19th.  He asked me to repeat the due date,
    when he first heard it because he was worried he would have
    to share his birthday.
    
    They are very opposite - he really enjoys his time alone
    and likes to do things independently.  She hates to be
    alone and won't do anything by herself.   
    
    At my son's daycare every child has a parent that is a twin.  
    One girl's Mother has an identical twin sister, the other boy's
    father has a twin sister.
    
    My husband told me that twins can have twins, but I always 
    heard that it skips a generation.  Does anyone have anymore
    information on this?
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    >>Would you seperate twins or keep them together? How about dress them
    >>alike or conciously dress them differently?
    
    >>eagerly awaiting your thoughts,
    
    Personally, I would seperate twins in school.  My sister and I 
    were in different classes but are/were very close.  We were together
    the rest of the day.  I think that it is harder for twins to learn
    to do enter new circumstances by themselves.  We always, as children,
    have the 'crutch' of knowing at least one other person :-).  Being
    seperate at school at least teaches that.
    
    About wearing the same clothes... I like the idea of at least 
    different colour clothes.  Actually, I might not be the best 
    one to ask about that as my Father did not allow us to were the
    same clothes.  As the children get older, I would follow their 
    leads.  It doesn't have to be all or nothing... sometimes if they 
    want they can dress the same, no big deal, but they don't have to.
    
    My Father was an identical twin.  My grandmother insisted that they 
    wear the exact same clothes till they were 13... that was definetly
    not the right way.  The story goes, on their 13th birthday, they 
    watched what the other one wore and made sure that they were 
    wearing completly different clothes, down to underclothes! :-)
    
    About twins skipping generations, I have heard the same thing.  Being
    a fraternal twin, it was inherited from my Mother's side of the family.
    Her uncles are twins, skipped one generation.  It's yet to be known
    if myself, or any of my siblings or cousins (genetic half sisters :-) 
    will have twins...
    
    Amy

    Oh, I forgot... the one thing that we did not like was
    being asked if we liked being twins.  Like what did
    we have to compare it to?
    
    Amy (who still answers to the name Marlene :-)

I'm an identical twin and I second the votes for putting the twins in
separate classes at school (unless there is only one class for a particular
subject or some other overriding reason) and for not dressing them
identically (unless they choose the outfits).  By the way, we were very
close as kids and remain so today.

There were a few classes that my sister and I were in together (mostly in
high school, as I remember) and it worked out fine but through elementary
school we were put in separate classes.  I think that it helped us develop
a sense of separate identity.

My mother rarely dressed us in the same clothes.  I can remember a couple of
times in elementary school that we dressed alike (and switched classes in 
school) to confuse people.  After a few times my sister refused to do it
any more because she always ended up having to take pop quizzes.

My mother is a fraternal twin and her twin brother has fraternal twin boys.
As you can imagine, when I was pregnant I asked the obstetrician about my
chances of having twins.  He said that identical twinning is purely
random and that fraternal twinning is hereditary on the mother's side (due
to a tendency to produce multiple eggs).

I have to agree with -.1 too about getting asked whether or not you like
being a twin.  What an impossible question to answer since you've never
known anything else.  

Susan (who also turns whenever someone calls Karen)

    .60> Um, seeing that you don't have twins and have no experience with twins
       > perhaps you don't understand the importance of them as individual
       > people.
    
    Um, other infrequent life occurrences with which I have no direct
    experience are wartime conscription, winning the lottery and unwanted
    pregnancy, but this does not preclude my having valid and defensible
    positions and philosophies on each.
    
    > There is absolutely no need for twins to be together 24 hours
      a day.
    
    I do not remember stating that twins must be together 24 hours a day.
    
    I still feel that dealing with ignorance and prejudice (e.g., "twins
    are really only one person, with one set of talents, attitudes and
    aspirations") by avoidance (separating twins so they're presented to
    academic society as singletons) is folly--and worse, ineffective.  It
    does nothing to educate the ignorant or prepare either twin to handle
    the same ignorance from the same neanderthals later in life.
    
    In my elementary school grade we had a set of identical and a set of
    fraternal twins.  We learned to tell Daniel and Dennis Gannett apart
    *because we saw them together* and could experience the contrasts
    (physical, social and academic).  Remember Michael and Janet Jackson at
    the Grammy awards?  :-)  The several classes in our grade didn't mix
    except at recess, and I know that when we (singletons) heard of twins
    being separated (in other school systems), we unilaterally considered
    it cruel & unusual punishment.  I now think that separation sends a
    clear message to the twins that they are somehow "wrong" or unnatural:
    the societal structure will not *allow* them to remain together in public.
    
    Kevin and Kathy Pearson, the other set of twins in our grade, were
    hardly even "considered" twins since they were obviously, radically
    different, starting with gender.  Naturally, this is prejudice of a
    different sort (fraternal twins not "as good as" or "as twin as" 
    identical), but it does not support the argument for separation,
    either.
    
    Leslie                                 

>                          I know that when we (singletons) heard of twins
>    being separated (in other school systems), we unilaterally considered
>    it cruel & unusual punishment.  I now think that separation sends a
>    clear message to the twins that they are somehow "wrong" or unnatural:
>    the societal structure will not *allow* them to remain together in public.

Now that we've heard from some real-life twins, I don't see how you can
still believe this.

    Re .68: Would you have wanted to be in the same class with one of your
    siblings, or would you have preferred to be in separate classes? Would
    it depend on which sibling, and how well you got along? Would it depend
    on which teacher, and how well that teacher was able to avoid making
    assumptions about one of you based on the behavior of the other?
    
    You see, I'd always thought - and was told, when I asked about it -
    that the main reason twins were separated was to avoid having siblings
    in the same class (few non-twin siblings being in the same grade at the
    same time). The theory was that the normal sibling rivalry might be
    compounded by being in the same room, and/or the normal sibling "stick-
    together-ness" might tend to cause discipline problems. (The degree to
    which either of this is true will, undoubtedly, vary tremendously
    according to circumstances.)
    
    The main disadvantage _I_ observed was that, in a school with two
    third-grade teachers, one of them was commonly held to be much "better"
    (in school-kid parlance) than the other, so of course one of the twins
    would get the "good" teacher and the other the "bad" one. I never
    noticed that the twins themselves had any trouble with this - and, of
    course, I never spared a thought for all the non-twins who also had the
    "bad" teacher. ;-)
    
    If I'd been in a school situation where I was in the same grade as one
    of my sibs, my choice would have been simple: I wouldn't have minded
    being in the same classroom as my brother, and wouldn't have wanted to
    be in the same one as my sister. [Fortunately, she and I both improved
    our attitudes as we grew up.] If I had a say in school policy, I think
    I'd allow sibs-in-the-same-grade the option of being in the same class
    or not, with a possible override if their being together became
    disruptive in some way.
    
    -b

re: .67

>I can remember a couple of times in elementary school that we
>dressed alike (and switched classes in school) to confuse
>people.  After a few times my sister refused to do it any more
>because she always ended up having to take pop quizzes.

Gee, I wouldn't mind taking pop quizzes at all, if I knew that my sibling
would be stuck with the results!  Or was it because she did better on the
quizzes than you did?  :^)

Clay

    .69> Now that we've heard from some real-life twins, I don't see how
       > you can still believe this.
    
    Well, no, in this case anyway a handful of earnest anecdotes isn't
    enough for me to overthrow a considered opinion.  (And I don't expect
    *my* anecdotes to start a revolution, either.)
    
    .70> Would you have wanted to be in the same class with one of your
       > siblings, or would you have preferred to be in separate classes?
    
    Yes, *but*.   :-)  They were step-siblings; they lived with us only
    during summer and school vacations; they were not my age (grade).
     
       > Would it depend on which sibling, and how well you got along? 
    
    I generally liked all 3 equally, and we generally got along equally
    well.  Of course my opinion would have wavered wildly depending on the
    Sibling Fight du Jour!  But if any of them had been my age, and I had
    been asked to commit to a school year at a time (the parental units
    would never have permitted changing classes midyear on a whim), I think
    I would have chosen for us to be in the same class.
    
       > Would it depend on which teacher, and how well that teacher was 
       > able to avoid making assumptions about one of you based on the 
       > behavior of the other?
    
    Nnnnnno...  I would have wanted the two of us to be measured by the
    same yardstick (teacher), whether we got the "bad one" or the "good
    one."  If we did get the bad one, I believe that each of us
    sibs/stepsibs would have had the gumption to squawk to parents and
    administration about any unfair or preferential treatment.
    
    > If I had a say in school policy, I think I'd allow sibs-in-the-same-
    > grade the option of being in the same class
    > or not, with a possible override if their being together became
    > disruptive in some way.
    
    Yes, well said.
    
    Leslie 

      >>My Father was an identical twin.  
	
      >>About twins skipping generations, I have heard the same thing.  Being
        a fraternal twin, it was inherited from my Mother's side of the, family.
        Her uncles are twins, skipped one generation.  It's yet to be known
        if myself, or any of my siblings or cousins (genetic half sister
    	:-)  will have twins...
           
    	AMY
    
    I've been wondering about this inheritance thing myself.  My father is
    a fraternal twin.  I'm expecting twins in probably June (unless they 
    decide to come REAL early).  
    
    So, if *I* have FRATERNAL twins, that means it was inherited from my
    mother's side of the family??? (being that "fraternal twinning is
    hereditary on the mother's side due to a tendency to produce multiple
    eggs" [208.67])  How could that be when it's my father that's the twin?
    
    I tried to make some sense of this (aside from what I've read) because
    my husband's grandmother and my grandmother both had twins.  So who gets 
    to claim the inheritance thing here -- me or my husband?
    
    This is what happend:
    
    	My grandmother got pregnant with twins on her THIRD pregnancy
    	and had my father (fraternal twin)
    
    	My husband's grandmother had twins on her THIRD pregnancy too
        (they did not survive long)
        
     	My father (the twin) gave the gene to his THIRD born (me)
    
    	This is now my THIRD pregnancy (twins)
    
    	My husband is the THIRD born in his family too
    
    	So this has all been passed to the #3 in each family.  (Unless,
        of course, this is all coincidental.  Doubt it.)
    
    	My question(s):  Should I expect FRATERNAL twins?
                         Who did I inherit this from?
    			 Or did my husband do the inheriting.
    			 Who goes through the labor? :-)
                                                  

If you have fraternal twins, that means it was caused by you releasing 
two eggs.   Your husband can not have anything to do with this, it's 
your body.    Since you are a genetic combination of your parents, I 
guess you could inherit the tendency to do that from your father.   

If you have identical twins, I believe that is just a function of 
nature, no inheritance factor.  

I think the "third" coincidences are just that.  Fertilization and the 
gene combinations are random statistical events.      


> 	 Who goes through the labor? :-)

sorry...    

    My mother is an identical twin and her non-twin sister had
    a set of fraternal twins.  So of course, when I was pregnant
    I was anxious to know if I was having twins.  So far, none of my
    sisters or cousins have had twins.  
    
    I have a question.  If my mother and her twin are "identical", how
    come my mother has a thyroid condition and my aunt doesn't, and
    my aunt had breast cancer and (so far) my mother doesn't?  If
    they're identical, aren't their genes identical?  Does this prove
    that environment is the main controller of some diseases?
    
    Noranne
    

    From everything that I've read, twins are a random occurrence that
    happens about 1 in every 80 births.  The number of twin births has
    increased in recent years due to fertility drugs.
    
    

    As mentioned in an earlier note, "Identical" twins are a random
    occurence.   It's a chance happening whereby the egg splits and
    forms two embryos.
    
    On the other hand, "fraternal" twins happen when the mother releases
    two eggs, instead of one, and they both get fertilized.  So, this
    "tendency" seems to be genetic/inherited, and it seems to me, could
    only be inherited from the female side of the family.
     
    (I asked a lot of questions about twins when I was pregnant so I
    could be prepared...just in case.)
    
    Noranne
    

    my 2 cents..
    I am a fraternal twin...I am the oldest, although my
    twin sister was supposed to come 'first'.  She got very
    stuck on the way out and they had to push her back and
    they delivered me.  they assumed she had died, but my mom
    insisted she was still alive.  They then hurried to deliver
    her and she was fine.  The stories that my mom tells
    of her deliveries are horrifying.  Obstetrics has come a long
    way...not sure if the change is due to increased respect
    for women, lawsuits, a different type of doctor doing
    deliveries, or what.  Obstetrics deserves the bad rep that
    it has (my opinion).

    My mom worked with our local schools to keep us from being
    in the same classroom.  She figured we saw more than enough
    of eachother all day.  She never dressed us alike or 'played up'
    our being twins.  We were siblings who were the same age.

    I think she did the right thing.

    I was always told that twinning is inherited and skips a generation.
    So my sisters daughters wont tend to twin but their daughters will.

    I raise sheep and in sheep, twinning is definitely an inherited
    trait.  Sheep have been selected for twinning (along with other
    characteristics).  The breeds that have been exclusively selected
    for multiple births will have as many 5 lambs and 3 is common.
    In most breeds of sheep, 1 or two is common.  So it is clearly
    'inheritable' since it can be improved by selection.

    Many people believe that the ram can effect the number of
    multiple births.  I have doubts, but the effect is supposed
    to come from the phermones that the ram emits.  These help
    the sheep come into heat and may effect how 'strongly' they
    are in heat.  So maybe some men's 'phermones' are more powerful
    than others!
    bob

    In both my parents' families, there have been occurances of 
    fraternal twins - Dad's uncle was a twin, and his 1st cousin's daugnter
    had twins - 2 sets of mom's 1st cousins were frats, one of her cousins
    had twin sons, and her father had twin brothers (died at birth). Her
    sister also miscarried twins on the first pregnancy. 
    Lots of occurances, since none of these families (since my greatgrand
    parents) had a lot of children.
    
    Monica 

    re: .68
    
    Well, after hearing from people who are either raising twins or are
    themselves twins.  I'm surprised you're still stuck on that mode of
    thinking.  Reminds me alot of people who don't have children trying
    to tell me how best to raise mine.  If you were to have twins, I 
    think you would find your attitude would create more trouble than
    you can possibly imagine.  Like I said before, most twins when together
    are totally focused on one another.  That's alot to ask of a teacher
    who has 25 other students in a classroom to have to compete with your twins
    for their attention as well as maintaining the attention of the other
    students.  Not only that, your twins would only be perceived by the
    other children (as well as some teachers) as a matched set, not two
    individuals.  Your twins would probably not develope friendships with
    other children (as they would be so dependent on one another as well
    as quite intimidating to other children).  I think your children would
    have a really hard time not only growing up, but when they're grown how
    would they cope with situations by themselves?
    
    I guess what I'm say .68 is, it's probably a good thing that you don't
    have twins.
    

RE: .80

Ouch.  Maybe you're being just a little hard on Leslie Woolner ?

People's experiences color their opinions, and hers have been
different than yours.  I'll bet if Leslie had twins she'd strive
to do the right thing for them, whatever that might turn out to be,
and maybe her opinion would change, but maybe it wouldn't.

Leslie Johnson

     I had a great moment with my twins the other day.They attended 
    the toddlers group for the first time (their 10 months).Sarah was 
    lying on the floor playing with a toy when a boy of about 2 knelt
    down beside her and was going to bite her,Before we could move,Rebecca
    sniped(she doesn't crawl)over and clung onto the boys hair with both
    hands,Boy did he scream....I was so proud of her.I really didn't think
    at tens months she would be this aware of what was going to happen.
    

    SCott

    >>                  <<< Note 208.82 by MASALA::SNEIL >>>

    >> down beside her and was going to bite her,Before we could move,Rebecca
    
    Warning : dumb new parent question follows :
    
    Aprt from the obvious, mouth around limb, how can you tell somebody is
    going to bite your kid?
    
    Simon

I can't say much for other kids, but I could tell when Jessica was 
going to bite because she was so precise about it.  She'd take Brad's 
face in her hand, study the target momentarily, then proceed to take 
a chomp out of his face.  Fortunately, she outgrew this behavior 
quickly.

I'm not sure that Rebecca mentioned in the previous note really 
knew that her twin was about to be bitten. I'd guess it was more 
along the lines of not wanting someone else to play with her 
sibling.  At least that's how it worked with my twins at around 
that age.

good question.  You can't.  But the warning signs are:


some sort of conflict - fighting over a toy, etc

violation of personal space - one kid too close to another

an approaching open mouth (:-))


In actual fact, the only warning sign that is totally sure is teeth on
body part.  Sometimes you are looking right at them, you know one kid has
a pattern of biting, and you still miss it.

Sometimes, a kid will start out intending to bite, get part way there,
get control back and end up kissing.

It's just the body English.  Once you've seen it a couple times, you'll
know when it's coming, at least part of the time...


Pat

    Alot of twins have some sort of telepathy also.  maybe she just sensed
    that her sister was threatened.  
    
    My two have shown signs of this.  It totally blew their 1st grade
    teachers away when one day Brandy was sitting in her classroom, turn
    around totally focused on the door with a really pained expression
    on her face.  Her sister was in a classroom down the hall and from
    where Brandy sat, there was no way she could possibly see out the
    door into the hallway.  Anyway, the teacher asked her what was wrong
    and she just said "Brittany has a bloody nose."  Just to ease Brandy's
    mind, the teacher picked up the phone and called Brittany's teacher,
    sure enough Brittany was down at the nurses office with a bloody nose!
    Both teachers couldn't wait to tell me this, they just couldn't believe
    it, they said they had always heard of telepathy between twins but, had
    never experience anything like this before.
    
    weird!
    

    .83

     Sarah was playing with a rattle,and the we boy wanted it,but Sarah
    wasn't giving it up.She had it in her mouth and was molling it(best way
    I can describe what she was doing).I had seen what was going on,but
    let it go to see how she would handle it.So the wee boy knelt down and
    was trying to bite her face but as Sarah was moving her head from side
    to side he couldn't....then comes Becks and grabs his hair.
     I know this sound as if I sat and watched as the boy tryed to bite her 
    but it did happen very fast.

     Had another great moment today.I was filming Sarah walking in her baby
    walker towards me,when I noticed the livingroom door coming into the
    shot.I kept filming but moved my head so I could see what was
    happening.Rebecca was sniping along slowly closing the door,by this
    time Sarah was just outside the door but Rebecca managed to shut it
    just before Sarah could get in.Once she had shut it she rolled on her 
    back gave a scream of delight,then she gave me a look that said "come
    play with me now Daddy".I could hardly film for laughing.

    SCott

Hi!

Just curious - was anyone who had twins been able to distinguish 
the twin's movement? I'm expecting twins in the beginning
of August and I'm starting to get a little nervous. I can
feel alot of movement on my left side and hardly anything
on my right side. I keep trying to promote movement on the
left by rubbing and prodding. This gets my right side moving
but not my left. I'm growing at the right rate and my last 
ultrasound in February showed two normal happy babies. 
Maybe I'm getting worried for no reason but I'd think my
left side would be just as active. 

Also - were you always able to pick up two heartbeats at the
doctors? Last visit we found one and he didn't really look
hard for the second which we didn't find. But he wasn't worried
and didn't really try hard. 

While I'm at it - how does one find Mothers of Twins groups?

Thanks,

Diane

    Hi Diane,
    
    It's probably just the positioning of the two babies right now.  When
    I was pregnent, they were side by side, one behind the other then one
    up in my rib cage and one down low.  One would get the hic-ups and
    next thing I knew I'ld have a flurry of activity all over.  Or, one
    would wake up and start moving and get the other one going.  I
    constantly had elbows and feet moving across my stomach.
    
    I can't remember how I got in touch with Mothers of Twins when I 
    was pregnent, but I do remember going to a few meetings before
    my twins were born.  Then when I was in the hospital after they
    were born the hospital gave me a newsletter from the Mothers of Twins
    as well as info on getting in touch with them.  Your pedi should
    have this info as well as the number for a chapter near you also.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Sharon
    

    I am planning to be the labor coach for a good friend who is
    expecting twins within a month. A week ago they were both breech
    and we gave up the idea of a vaginal birth, then they moved,
    and one (lower) is head-down and the other breech, so we may be 
    able to do it after all. 
    
    She seems to be able to distinguish between them when they move 
    around (I can't imagine how) and can detect differences. Her
    ultrasounds always detect both heartbeats as far as I know...
    It's all a fascinating mystery to me...
    
    Lucy

    CONGRAULATIONS!
    
    we always had one much more active than the other, they seemed to flip
    from month to month on who would be the kicky one. Both turned out fine
    8-))
    
    Mothers of Twins are a fun bunch,  I have the addresses at home
    someplace, and will look up the national chapter. Then they will put in
    tocuh with a local chapter.
    
    Simon, father of twins

    Thanks for all the feedback. You're all probably right - it's
    just the position of the babies. I'm still amazed that there
    are really two of them in there :*) 
    
    Diane

    Diane,
    
    Not to worry you or anything, but I think that by the time you are
    8 1/2 or 9 months along you'll begin to feel like there are at least
    half a dozen babies in there! ;^)  You just get so big and
    uncomfortable that you feel like you're gonna explode.  I got real
    grouchy too, especially after my due date came and went!  (The doctors
    told me that twins could usually be expected about 1 month pre-mature,
    but when nothing had happened by my due date they tried to induce me.
    Nothing happened and they sent me home..  My twins wound up being a
    week late!  And I can tell you that last month I was a total grouch!).
    
    Good luck!
    Sharon
    

James and Rosalind are nearly two but I can still recall the biffs and bashes 
I received from them both. At first I couldn't distinguish between them but 
as they grew and also got stuck in one postion (around 30 weeks) I knew who 
was to blame for the injuries to me. Rosalind was low down and breech and 
James above with his bot on Rosalind's face...

Occasionally one would wriggle and set the other off kicking and a general 
bun fight would then ensue. Sometimes I would prod my tummy and a small person
would prod back, or two small people! Two prods in and two in return - one way
to relieve the boredom of meetings.

Fortunately they were delivered at 36 weeks so I didn't get really uncomfy.

Now they play together and if one hurts themself the other will provide get 
well kisses. 

If I had the choice I would have another set of twins, it really is that much
fun. From the two years so far I can only say it gets better and better all
the time; though I wouldn't have believed anything so good could improve.

One besotted Mummy, alias Judith.

Then there is our 10 or 11 year old twin boys next door.  One bailed out of a
fight to our house after ending up on the losing end of an orange fight.  When
their mother came home from work, she said there were smashed orange marks all
over the walls:-(

Bob

    Thanks for the warning about getting big and uncomfortable. I can't
    believe how big I am already. I'm having a hard time thinking about
    how much bigger I'll be before they finally arrive. I can't believe
    Sharon's twins were a week late. My doctor is always saying how they
    come early and I was hoping they would as I don't know how I'll be
    able to handle being so big in the summer. I'm averaging about a
    1 and a half to 2 lbs. gains every week... I've never seen my scale
    go so high :*(
    
    I'm really glad to hear that twins are fun and you'd do it again -
    I'm tired of everyone telling me how hard it's going to be... Not
    that I don't think it's going to take some work but it seems to be
    everyone's favorite thing to say to me these days. 
    
    
    I can't wait to meet these two little ones...
    
    Diane 

     If you don't already have any children then you don't know any
    different.When my wife was pregnant that's all we got as well
    "They'll be a handful" and "I could never have managed with twins"
    I don't know if because I got good babies but I really don't see
    that it's much harder than having one.I would think that having a new
    born and a toddler would be harder.Don't know if it the same with all
    parents but the hardest thing we've found is getting out if there only
    one of you there.We live six stores up(with no lift) and getting the 
    two babies down and the pram can be quite an effort.

     Just as a wee foot note.They got there ten month assessment today.
    Sarah is at the 9 month stage.This is ok they say as she was premature
    (she also got teeth 5 and 6 today)Rebecca is at a normal ten month
    stage.This really surprised me as up until 2 weeks ago Sarah was way 
    ahead of Rebecca,now it seems as if she does something new everyday.


     SCott   

    re: .-2
    
    >>						   I'm averaging about a
    >>    1 and a half to 2 lbs. gains every week... I've never seen my scale
    >>    go so high :*(
    
    You should be happy that you can even SEE the scale!!  My wife too has
    this problem...
    
    Dan

    I agree with Scott.  I only have my twins, so I don't know any 
    different.  I'd say it's probably about half again as much work as 
    having 1 baby (and since I had 1 baby home 4 months before the other,
    I did get a slight taste), but once you're into a routine, things
    get much easier.  I have a theory that it's because the kids' needs
    are the same, so it's not much extra work for the second baby.  I.e.
    they nap at roughly the same time, go to bed at night at the same time,
    eat at the same time, and generally are at the same develomental 
    stage so it's not difficult to play with both of them at once.  And
    they also play together and amuse each other.
    
    As far as your weight gain,  you're about the same as me.  I gained
    28 pounds in 28 weeks, which is when I delivered. But the doctor had
    told me to expect to gain about 50-60 pounds, so I was on track, and
    I'd say you are,too.  I think weight gain is supposed to slow down
    as you near full-term, but as I never got that far, I can't tell you
    what it's like to be pregnant with twins after the 6th month.
    
    Cathy

    Diane,
    
    I whole-heartedly agree with Scott and Cathy that if you don't know any
    different, then it's no big deal.  My twins are my only children and
    I've been a single parent since they were babies.  It's not easy by any
    means, but you do get into a routine and it really isn't as difficult
    as people with only one baby might imagine.
    
    There are different things you have to keep in mine when raising twins,
    but they're not a hardship.  For instance, when they are able to sit
    up and play with toys together,  be carefull what you give them to play
    with... Especially if you can't stand over them and watch their every
    move.  Hard rattles, bottles and stuff like that.  When they're young
    they just dont understand that smacking their twin over the head with
    a rattle hurts.  Or when they can stand, one might climb upon the other 
    to escape from the playpen...  Some things they do dont seam so funny
    at the time, but looking back they are quite amusing.  When they start
    walking, you'll most likely be in the best shape you'll ever be in in
    your life.  Chasing after two little ones who are headed in opposite
    directions!  And I can now look back and giggle about when they cut
    each others hair at the age of four %^)
    
    My girls will be 10 on the 18th of this month.  And I can honestly say
    that there has never been a dull moment.  These past 10 years watching
    them grow and how they interact with one another has been fascinating,
    intriguing, educational, sometimes aggrevating, frustrating and
    absolutely amazing.  They were truely born with thier very best friend
    in all the world.
    
    Best wishes,
    Sharon
    

    Hi,
    
    In case you haven't found out yet, there's a Twins and Triplets Club
    in Nashua that meets I believe the 2nd Thursday of every month (check
    that) and the phone numbers are 882-5686 and 883-5887.  Also, if you're
    interested, they have a HUGE yard sale type thing every May where all the 
    members (and other twin parents) sell all kinds of things that only other 
    twins parents (and children) could use (double carriages, matching twin
    clothing [if that's your bag], etc).  I hear it's really quite
    something.  Great deals!!
    
    

    I mentioned many replies back that I was planning to be a labor coach 
    for a friend. Well, I did it -- she did it -- they're here! She had 
    a boy (7 lbs 13 oz) and a girl (7 lbs 4 oz) last week, on May 6 via 
    C-section after 41.5 weeks gestation. The babies are healthy and 
    beautiful and mom is tired! 
    
    My friend labored for nearly 30 hours before they convinced her to
    throw in the towel and do the Caesarian. She has mixed feelings...she 
    thought she might be able to go on, but the factors were stacked against 
    her. It was basically a case of failure to progress. I was with her for 
    the last eight hours or so, including the C-section, as was her husband.
    It was a wonderful experience, and I felt lucky to be there to hold the
    other twin after delivery. They are going home today after a five-day
    stay. She has some help lined up for the first several weeks.
    
    Lucy 

    Hurrah! Lucy!
    Congrats to you and your friends! What an experience (and what
    great big babies!) 
    
    Monica

    
    congrats! Twins to 41.5 weeks, and so big! A miracle!
    
    Simon

    Re: big babies -- the part I didn't mention is that she is only
    5'1" -- ooh, those muscles are going to have some recovering to do...
    
    It's funny, the only other woman I know with twins also went past her 
    due date, and had big babies too.
    
    Lucy 

    
    
    Congrats to your friend.
    
    7 lbs 13 and 7 4oz.....monsters @:^).
    
    She's lucky to have a boy and a girl as well.Any names yet???
    
    
    
    SCott

    Names: Mark Emmett and Kyra NMIY (no middle initial yet, maybe Leigh)
    
    Their dad is of Russian descent, so I suggested naming them Boris 
    and Natasha. Strangely, my suggestion was ignored!
    
    Lucy
                                                                  

    Congratulations!!
    
    I think it's wonderful that the birthweights were in the 7lb range...
    that's great for twins...and for mom being so small!
    
    Give them all our best!
    
    ..Lori
    
    

    
    
    Not really of any intrest to anyone....but my girls a one year old
    today....it's so true,there not babies for long.
    
                                                      SCott

    Being a member of Mother of Twins is fun.  I had my identical girls on
    March 24, after 36 weeks pregenency.  Candice weighed 6.4 and Natalie 
    5.12, were in NICU for 7 (Candice) and 2 (Natalie) days after birth.  They
    started sleeping through since they were 8 weeks old, and one never seems 
    to be bothered when the other wakes up.  I have a 3 year old son, and he is
    the one makes me exhausted.
    
    Jason (my 3 year old son) is learning all the colors lately at school,
    he knows pink and blue, he knows he has 2 sisters, one is Candice one
    is Natalie, he knows I dress Candice in pink and Natalie in blue, if you 
    ask him which one is which, he'll give you the wrong answer.
    
    This is the way he introduces himself:  I am Jason, I have TWOOO
    sisters.
    
    It is alot of work taking care twins, but the reward is proportional.
    
    Ginger
          

    
    Hi Ginger!
    
    Congrats on the twins, you'll love em to pieces!
    
    Simon, father_of_nine_month_old_twins

     Congratulations to Tom Dougall (a read only noter) who's wife gave
    birth to Lewis and Laura last week.I'm told all are doing well.Babies
    weights(I'm told) were 5,2 and 5,4.

     I can be hard Tom.....but it really is so much fun.


    SCott

    I'm not sure if this topic exists yet, but I have a question.  I had my 
    20 week check up last week, and the doctor said I was a little bigger
    than I should be and he thinks he heard two heart beats.  Therefore, he
    scheduled me for an ultrasound this friday to determine if there is
    more than one baby.
    
    I'm sure this has happened to others, how did you deal with waiting,
    was your situation similar and what was the finding?  
    
    My husband and I will be happy with what ever they find, but I am
    having a hard time concentrating on anything else.
    
    Thanks, Linda

    Linda,

    	Firstly, Oh-ma-god!!

    	Secondly, I wish I had a dime for every time they sent a woman for
    an ultrasound because she was bigger than normal and they thought she
    might be having twins.

    	I was sent at 8 weeks with Spencer (who (obviously) turned out to
    be only one (thank God)). I know of many, many women who have had the
    same experience (although no one ever thought they heard two
    heartbeats, they just thought I was big).

    	Relax, (yeah right), don't start panicking until you know for sure
    that you are having twins (YIKES!!! can't even imagine)

    				Wendy

    	

    I'm a twin!  I think its great.  My mom claims its
    only slightly harder than one, since we were always
    at exactly the same 'stage', and we always had a playmate
    right there.

    I doubt this is the last time you'll find it hard to
    concentrate over SOME aspect of your kid(s)!

    Enjoy....
    bob

	I was sent for an ultrasound at 15.5 weeks because my doctor
	thought I was quite a bit bigger than I should have been.  I wasn't
	*too* alarmed, as I carried bigger for my first, and also had
	an ultrasound to check for twins that time.  My doctor was
	convinced it was either twins or wrong dates.  I knew the date
	was correct.  Thankfully, they scheduled me for the next day,
	so my wait was minimal.  I was kind of hoping for twins, but
	there's only one, and my due date was found to be correct.

	The doctor apologized after the ultrasound, saying it was probably
	a combination of a full bladder, and carrying high.  As of last
	week's check-up, I'm still measuring about 2 weeks ahead of schedule.

	Karen

    When I found out I was having twins, my doctor sent me for an
    ultrasound.  I was three months along and he (the doctor) listened for
    a heartbeat and said he heard the heartbeat but he wanted me to have
    an ultrasound done anyway.  I immediately asked why an ultrasound
    (because one of the nurses had told me that they don't do ultrasounds
    unless there is something wrong), and he just kept saying there is
    nothing wrong just go have one.  A couple of days later we (my husband
    and I) went for the ultrasound and low and behold there were two
    babies, good thing I was laying down.  I was sooo shocked.  I don't
    know why I was so shocked -- twins run on both sides of our families --
    but I wasn't thinking of that then.  Then later the doctor told me
    that he thought he heard two heartbeats and was wondering why I was
    so big for three months, but he didn't want to alarm me incase he
    was wrong.
    
    Twins are wonderfull!!!  They can be a handful at times but I wouldn't
    give them up for anything.  My girls are 18 months old, they definately
    grow up quickly.
    
    Best of luck with your ultrasound.
    
    
    -Denise

    
    we have 13 month old twin girls, wouldn't have it any other way! They
    are wonderful kids, easy to handle, play with each other, yeah they're
    a handful but I never expected parenthood to be part-time! I don't
    think they cost anymore, and we got the family bit done in one lump!
    
    next time, twins boys! Alice isn't so sure 8-))
    
    Simon

   , they definately grow up quickly.
    
     Never has a truer word been said...I can't believe how fast my girls
    are growing up.
    
     SCott

    I'm in trouble with she who must be obeyed, I showed Billie (13 months)
    how to push her baby chair against the dining room chair, then climb
    one to the other until she is standing on the table!
    
    Now Heather her twin is sitting there on the floor in wonderment
    watching,..... and learning!
    
    Simon

    Are you in trouble, Simon!
    
    Monica

    Good thing Simon and I aren't in the same household.  There wouldn't be
    many rules!!!!  I do the same thing.  I have "broken" many ettiquette
    rules in my house...(I have boys and boys LOVE it when they can be
    "gross" and mom will join in).  Example:  Ryan burps at the table...Mom
    says "Ryan, what do you say?"  Ryan says "Excuse me".  Mom says "No,
    GOOD ONE!!"  Dad winces....
    
    Oh well...we are also teaching them that home is where we let our hair
    down, but we do act respecfully in public. 
    
    -sandy
    

	I'm expecting twins in early April.  My husband and I are
	VERY excited and looking forward to 2 healthy babies.
	I am feeling a bit overwhelmed because I am trying to *plan*
	for all eventualities, which I know is impossible but I can't 
	help it.  We have a 5 1/2 year old son Patrick and a 15month old 	
        daughter, Cathryn.

	Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.  My major
	concern is the first month or so.  I'll be having a c-section
	(which I've had twice before) and realize the importance of
	completely recovering to avoid a drawn out, slow recovery.

	My mom and mom-in-law live close by and have both said they
	would help out. 

  So here is my question:

  IF YOU COULD GIVE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE ABOUT THE FIRST MONTH OR TWO
  WITH TWINS, WHAT WOULD IT BE?

	Thanks so much-------MM

    
    from a dad of 15 month old twins, ---- be organized! If you are
    breastfeeding then listen to the nurses, as the technique is special. 
    
    Really they aren't twice the work of a baby, more like 1.5 times the
    work. Be aware the other kids will be ignored by strangers in malls etc
    as twins are 'special' and as they aren't twins they aren't as
    'special' 8-{{{{{. 
    
    My wife really really enjoys the local chapter of Mother of Twins, its
    a great organization and really helped us cope each time we felt
    overwhelmed.
    
    Best of luck for big healthy bouncing twins ! 
    
    Simon

    Take all the help that everyone will be willing to offer.
    Enjoy yourselves as much as you can.  It'll be hard.
    People truly like to help...so let them.

    good luck!
    bob

My twins are 2 1/2, and were born 12 weeks prematurely, so be prepared for
special treatment from the OB so prevent prematurity  (in fact, push your
OB to be on the conservative side).

I second .1 in the 'be organized' approach, but I would phrase it as get
them on a schedule!  We preferred having them 15 minutes to 1/2 hour apart
on the schedule once they were both home from the hospital (Jessica came home
at 10 weeks; Brad came home at 6 1/2 months).  This helped us to be able 
to feed/change one and then the other without having someone always
screaming, although I can remember propping both babies up in their car
seats and holding a bottle for each of them on one particular day that I was
running a bit late and everyone was hungry at the same time!  Also, it helps
through the night so that only 1 person has to get up and can feed both
babies. Of course, if you're nursing, you'll always be getting up to feed them,
so this may not be helpful.  My son couldn't nurse as he couldn't tolerate
breast milk, and my daughter flat out refused to nurse, so we went the formula
route.

I agree with Simon that they are probably only 1.5 times as much work as 1
baby.

Congratulations on the twins, and here's hoping they're full-term, happy,
healthy babies!

Cathy

    
    I *do not* have twins.... but I recommend this advice to anyone having
    babies (single or multiple births)... when the babies sleep, you should
    rest/sleep too.  The house work will still be there when you get up,
    the laundry isn't going anywhere, dinners can be fast-food or
    microwaved for a while... the place is not going to fall apart if you
    don't do it!!  HONEST!!!!!  Sleep, rest, read... take some time just
    for YOU!!!  You deserve it!

    Best of luck!

    M-L

    I agree with .127!  Everyone told me the same thing and it's true!

    to MM:
    Thats absolutely wonderful! I look forward to hearing about your
    adventures.
    M-L mentioned sleeping when they sleep - great advice if your
    kids don't take 5 minute catnaps between howls like mine did!
    (and I only had one!).
    Don't be shy to ask for help from friends and relatives!
    
    Monica

    Congratulations!  
    
    I don't have twins, but when my second was born in May, my husband did
    a terrific thing....He hired a maid service to come in weekly for the
    first 3 months -- It was a *great* help since I am not the type that
    can be at ease in my house if it is messy.....
    
    consider saving for it!  I wish I still had someone helping now!

	Thanks for all the congratulations and advice.

	We do plan on having someone come in to help with the housework.
	We'd rather have someone help with that than with the care of
	our children.  My mother has already said she will be there to
	help (overnight too) in the begining and at least once a week 
	through the summer, allowing me to escape for a few hours to shop
	or visit or most likely sleep.  In addition my mother-in-law has
	also said she will be happy to help in any way she can. I plan on 	
        keeping my son (5 1/2) and daughter (15 mos.) going to the sitter
	2 days a week through the summer, I think they will appreciate the   	
        change of scenery.  I also have two wonderful dependable friends I
	I know I can count on.  
	
	Just talking about it made me realize that we do have plans in 
	place and are probably more prepared than I thought we were.

	thanks -----Maura 

     I was just wondering if anyone elses twins behaved as differently 
    as mine?.

     I just can't believe some time how different they are sometimes.
    Sarah(21 months) is really well behaved,If she sees something that 
    she know she shouldn't have then she pick it up and give it to you.
    If she sees Rebecca with the TV controller she'll take it of her and 
    give it back to us.Her BIG down fall is her crying,She is always the 
    one who wakes us up with her crying,if she has the slightest fall the 
    tears start.When we're out shopping,she'll get fed up and start
    girning.

     Rebecca on the other hand has a great nature,very seldom does she cry
    she can play away her self for hours.I've seen her falling and thinking
    "That looked sore,she'll cry for sure"But she'll get up rub where ever
    she hurt and then just carry on doing what ever she was doing.Rebecca's
    down fall is she is a pest,always in at everything.She's be over
    touching the TV or video,you'll shout over at her,she'll turn round
    point her finger at you with one had while the other hand is still
    touching the TV....while she does this she'll be gibbering away at 
    you.I'm sure if I could understand what she was saying she'd be in 
    even more trouble @:^).

     Not only this,they don't look the same.One like my wife the other like
    me.Their also different weight and height.
    
    But...I still think their great @:^))))
    
    
    
      SCott
    
    

My twins will be 3 in April, and they have been like night and day from the
day they were born. Jessica hated being coddled and always had to have her
hands free. She loved to sleep, and just barely woke for eating. She is
also the spitting image of her father. In fact, nurses would come up to him 
in the NICU and say "I don't know you, but I had your daughter last night."
Brad, on the other hand, looks like me and was always a cuddly baby. He
would lay awake for hours in his incubator when he should have been sleeping,
and he loved being coddled.

Today, they are still very different.  He's  very much into cause and effect
and is really active always into something.  He has a very even-tempered
disposition and takes after me.  Jessica is still her father's daughter. She's
got a stubborn streak you could land a 747 on, and is incredibly moody.
She still doesn't like to cuddle, but she is very well-behaved and almost
always listens as opposed to her brother who almost never listens. It never
ceases to amaze me how different they are right down to Jessica loves fruits
and vegetables while Brad is a meat and potatoes guy.

I'm really glad that they are so different as I want them treated as
individuals and not as 'the twins.' Being boy-girl twins helps with that, but
having such diverse personalities really makes a big difference. In fact,
I tend to not think of them as twins, and I usually say I have two 2-year-olds
vs. saying that I have 2-year-old twins because that's how I think of them.

Cathy

    This is an interesting string .... I know that with Cathy, Brad is
    younger, and I wonder if Rebecca is younger than Sarah in .132.
    
    It seems to me that the kids are following the same 1st/2nd kid stuff
    that you see in "non-twin" siblings.
    
    Christopher (oldest) is NOT a cuddly kid, and most certainly wasn't as
    a baby.  He listens pretty well, and is generally well behaved.  He
    tends to be conservative, and will overreact to almost everything,
    emotional.  He's a worry-wart, and perhaps even a bit paranoid.  He's
    always afraid of new things, and would rather just stick by the "tried
    and true", no matter how "boring" it may seem to you or I.  By far his
    worse trait is his crying (and he's 8!).  He knows right and wrong and
    is forever trying to "right" everything - even the world sometimes. 
    He's happiest with peace and harmony, and will frequently sacrifice
    his own things/feelings, just to keep the peace.  In a word, I'd
    describe him as accomodating (but kinda wimpy).
    
    JASON .... on the other hand!!  GEEZ!!  Are these kids brothers??  Talk 
    about night and day!  Jason doesn't fear *ANYTHING*!  He doesn't mind
    being hurt, and actually finds the fact that he bleeds, sort of
    interesting.  He never, ever listens, doesn't matter if he hears or
    not.  He can be very sassy.  He has a very clear sense of right and
    wrong, and THRIVES when he's doing "wrong".  He is VERY inquisitive,
    and seems to posses a greater "common sense" than his brother does. 
    He usually disagrees for the sake of disagreeing, and I believe he
    thrives on conflict.  Geez what a pain in the butt he can be!!  In a
    word, I guess I'd have to say "defiant" is his strongest personality
    trait.
    
    So, they're not twins, but it seems that everyone I know, there first
    kid is fine, and the second is a bit crazier - it's interesting to see
    if this holds for twins as well!  Then it CAN'T be us moms and dads!!
    (-:
    
    

Gee, Patty, that's funny you should mention the younger one being crazier.
We were at a party with the kids a couple of weeks ago, and someone explained
to me that Brad was wilder because he was younger (and he is the second
twin). I just figured it was payback for his father's young and crazy
days -- you know, the old 'hope your kids are just like you' wish a mom
makes that comes true!

Anyhow, I don't think that twins should be similar in personality any more
than any other 2 siblings. I think that with same-sex twins, people expect
them to behave the same, so when they are different, it seems odd.  And 
since my twins are boy-girl, it's more expected that they would be different.
So I don't find it unusual that anyone's twins are not alike -- I figure
they are 2 individuals and will have some differences even if they have a
lot of similarities.

And with twins having different personalities, I find people tend to treat
them more as individuals than as a unit. You know, to avoid the 'ask the
twins if she wants a cookie' kind of comments that treat them as one
entity instead of 2 people.

Cathy

    
     Rebecca is 4 minutes older than Sarah.But Sarah is bigger than Rebecca.
    The one thing they are in total agreement over is their love of dry
    toast.....Oh and Garlic bread @:^).

     I totally agree with Cathy in .133.I was used to be worried that they
    would be known as "The Twins" But because they are they're own wee
    individuals it's very rare I hear them being called the twins. 
    
    
     SCott

This is fascinating for me, who also have 7-year-old boy-girl twins
who are very different.  In our case, the older (by 20 mins.), the
girl, is the wilder one.  She's called Fanni, and is fearless, has 
trouble listening, and gets into all sorts of trouble.  Andr�s, the 
boy, listens well, is not wild at all, cries more than a typical 7-
year-old -- and still gets into trouble.  In fact, he is by far the 
more insolent one, for example.  So the categories don't always all go 
together.  Here are some examples, taking previous replies' points.

.132: "if she has the slightest fall the tears start." 

-- Neither of ours cries at a fall at all.  Andr�s will cry at losing 
something, with frustration, or on being teased or bullied by her 
sisters (the smaller one is 5).

      "I'm sure if I could understand what she was saying she'd be in 
       even more trouble @:^)."

-- The one who gets us raging by what he says is Andr�s, not Fanni.  
On the other hand, she is much the more difficult to understand.

.133: "She loved to sleep, and just barely woke for eating. ... He
       would lay awake for hours in his incubator when he should have been 
       sleeping"

-- Andr�s loved sleeping AND eating.  Fanni was always awake and 
interested; neither sleep nor food had much attraction for her as a baby.

       "He's very much into cause and effect and is really active
       always into something.  He has a very even-tempered disposition and
       takes after me.  Jessica is still her father's daughter. She's got a
       stubborn streak you could land a 747 on, and is incredibly moody. She
       still doesn't like to cuddle, but she is very well-behaved and almost
       always listens as opposed to her brother who almost never listens. It
       never ceases to amaze me how different they are right down to Jessica
       loves fruits and vegetables while Brad is a meat and potatoes guy."

-- Fanni is much more inquisitive, but is not even-tempered at all, in 
fact can lose her temper very thoroughly; she's also much more
stubborn.  Andr�s is very good at listening, and fairly even-tempered
(except when being bothered by his sisters); but he and not Fanni is
the one who will get into moods seeming to have no external precipitating 
factor.  Andr�s eats everything, where Fanni likes only a very few 
things, and ESPECIALLY not vegetables or meat.

.134: "He listens pretty well, and is generally well behaved.  He
       tends to be conservative, and will overreact to almost everything,
       emotional.  He's a worry-wart, and perhaps even a bit paranoid.  He's
       always afraid of new things, and would rather just stick by the "tried
       and true", no matter how "boring" it may seem to you or I.  By far his
       worse trait is his crying (and he's 8!).  He knows right and wrong and
       is forever trying to "right" everything - even the world sometimes. 
       He's happiest with peace and harmony, and will frequently sacrifice
       his own things/feelings, just to keep the peace."

-- Andr�s is also a worry-wart, and will sacrifice his interests for 
peace; but he is the one who's much more interested in new things, 
whereas Fanni is conservative and likes the familiar.

      "He never, ever listens, doesn't matter if he hears or
       not.  He can be very sassy.  He has a very clear sense of right and
       wrong, and THRIVES when he's doing "wrong"."

-- With us, it's not the sassy one who doesn't listen, it's the other one. 
And it's not the one who has a sense of right and wrong who does 
things wrong, it's both of them (but especially the other one).

    I am a new notes reader and am so glad to find a TWINS topic.  I am a
    single parent to 4 children, my twin girls being the middle two.  Being
    a single(Divorced) parent of 4 children is very hard, but I find that
    the most problems I have are with the twins.

    Alyssa and Ashley are 3 1/2 years old.  They are not identical twins,
    but from the back you can't tell them apart.  I can't get them to
    behave.  Alyssa will wake up in the middle of the night and get in to
    things.  I can't begin to count the times that I have had to clean up
    the kitchen from her midnight "snacks".  The locks you can put on
    cabinets are a cinch for her to open.  As for putting things up higher
    so they cannot be reached-she will find anything to stand on to climb
    onto counters etc.  HELP!

    What really scares me is that it almost seems like she plans it all in
    advance.  When Ashley decides to do something you can tell it is
    spur-of-the-moment, she will usually do something that will get her
    caught in a matter of minutes.  Alyssa, you have to keep an eye on.  If
    she is out of sight for 5 minutes, you can bet she is doing something
    she shouldn't be.  They will be starting head start this week, I hope
    this will help.  If anyone has any suggestions, PLEASE help.

    Thank you,
    Sophia

I don't have any suggestions.
I just wanted to empathise over the single parenting being difficult.
I only have one. I'd hate to have four.
It seems that I make a lot of my own problems. Children seem to welcome a 
well defined and well maintained set of rules.

well, good luck,
Peter.

    re: .139
    
    Thank you for the reply.  With 4 children it is hard to keep a well
    defined and well maintained set of rules.  The twins started head start
    this week so I'm hoping that it will help.
    
    Thanks,
    Sophia

    
I realize this note has been quiet for some time but I hoping to
get some dialog started in response to my situation.

I'm wondering if this could be a 'twin thing':

I had identical twins (boys) in April, 1995.  Matthew (born 6 lbs. 15 oz.)
is 8 minutes older than his brother, JT (born 6 lbs. 10 oz.).  
I also have 2 older boys - Tim (14) and Christopher (11).  I came back to 
work in September so things are pretty hectic but the worst is the lack 
of sleep both my husband and I are dealing with.  (I have read the 
'Sleeping Problems'note, too.)

The problem that I'm having is the babies' sleeping patterns.  My
older boys slept through the night before they were 4 weeks old so I'm
dumbfounded as to why this is happening.  Matty & JT just turned 7 
months old and still are having difficulty sleeping through.  Last week 
was the first time they slept through the night - in fact,
they did it 3 days in a row.  But for the last 2 days, they seem
to have reverted back to waking 3-4 times each during the night.

When they wake during the night, they usually will cry out.  My
husband and I will wait a few minutes to see if they calm down and
go back to sleep on their own.  Most of the time they don't and
we have to go in and rub their backs or put their pacifier back
in their mouth.  If we wait too long, they end up waking the other
and then we have double trouble!  Believe me, I've tried everything
and I have Dr. Ferber's book and did ferberize them from their
pacifiers and try to only use them only when there is no other alternative.
I've also let them cry for 10-15 minutes only to wake the older boys
in the middle of the night (and they were not happy campers!).

The reason I was wondering if this might be common with twins is
that I have a friend here at work who also had twins (fraternal girls)
and is experiencing the exact same thing.  They're 2 months younger
than mine and seem to be picking up the same sleeping habits.

Any other parents of twins out there experience this type of sleeping
habit?  They eat solids 3 times a day and have several 7 oz. bottles
during the day so they're getting plenty to eat.  They also take
a 1-2 hour nap in the morning and shorter one in the afternoon so I
don't think they're sleeping too much during the day.

Curious to know your experiences....


Susan

    Hi Susan,
    
    I just returned to work a couple of weeks ago.  I have
    3 month old ferternal twin girls.  Actualy they were 
    born on 9/2/95 so they are about 14 wks old.  Sorry to
    blow your twins theroy about their sleeping problems...
    but my girls have been sleeping through the night since
    about 10 1/2 weeks old.  They get their last bottle
    around 7:30 - 8:00 and go down about 9:00 and sleep till
    7:00 - 7:30.  When I came back to work I actualy have to 
    wake them to go to daycare.  They are still only eating
    formular too.
    
    I can imagine how tough it is.  I know how hard it was
    getting up with the 2 of them before they were sleeping
    through the night.
    
    When did your boys start using pacifiers?  Neither one of
    my girls are crazy about using them.  Actualy one of my
    daughters sucks her thumb so she'd much rather have that.
    I have a close friend who has 4 yr. old twin girls and
    I remember her always getting up when they dropped their 
    pacifiers too.  She did break them of the pacifiers when they
    were 18 months old.  The funny part of her story was that
    one of her girls called it a "paca" and the other one called 
    it a "fier".....now I think that's a twin thing.
    
    Well, I wish you luck on your sleeping problem...and if
    you want to chat about twins I'd love to.
    
    Deb (Jordan & Brooke's Mommy)

    I have fraternal girls who are now eleven months old and have been
    sleeping through the night for about a month now -- 
    
    In the beginning it was very difficult as they were born six weeks
    early.  The biggest change for us was when we started feeding them
    bigger meals with "heavier" solid foods.  They eat finger food
    exclusively (well, almost -- applesauce is too hard to pick up with
    index finger and thumb:-)).  
    
    My girls have dinner about 5:00 a bath at 6:00 and a bottle at 7:00. 
    They go to bed at 8:00 and get up between 6:00 and 7:00 am.  We are so
    much happier as a family now -- sleep makes all of the difference!
    
    On the rare occasion that one wakes up and can't go back to sleep we do
    pick her up from her crib and rock her back to sleep.  The cause of this 
    has generally been teething. (We have also given baby tylenol when all
    else fails.)  Although Dr. Ferber would not agree, we have
    not found the occasional rocking to be a problem -- no negative pattern
    has developed as result.  In addition we have not had one wake the
    other in over a month.
    
    Your twins were great size when they were born -- congratulations --
    mine were barely 5lbs each at birth!  Generally their size makes a big
    difference in sleeping through the night -- Best of luck!  Hang in
    there it does get easier -- it has already for us :-)
                

    My girls wre born 4 wks early and weighed in at
    5lbs 9 oz. and 5lbs 3oz.  One of my girls has a gag 
    reflux and has had trouble putting on weight.  
    Now at 14wks she only weighs 8lbs. 14 oz.  My Dr.
    actualy wanted us to still wake her at night to 
    feed her.  We tryed giving her more during the day
    and it seems to have helped.  She gained 10oz. 
    since last week.  I realy didn't want to wake her
    if we couold avoid it.  He says now as long as she
    get 24oz. of formular a day and keeps gaining what we're
    doing is fine.
    
    Deb

    Thank you both for your notes - I guess there is hope!  They
    still are not sleeping through and they'll be 9 months Jan. 5th.
    My husband and I are quite tired to say the least.  I think it's
    going to take some crying on their part to break them of the habit.
    They literally wake up each 4-5 times a night crying so we're popping
    up alot.  They even do it with their pacifiers in their mouths so it
    may be a combination of teething and habit.  It's hard when they're in
    the same room because we try not to let one cry more than 1 minutes 
    because he will eventually wake the other up then we have double 
    trouble!
    
    They eat real well and have their last bottle around 7:00 and go to bed
    by 8:00.  By 9:30 they've already woke up crying at least once!  My
    other sons slept through the night before they were 4 weeks old so this
    is hard to take.  Since this is a second marriage for me, these are my 
    husband's first children.  He keeps asking me if this is normal and I
    keep telling him no way!  If it were, I would have stopped at my first
    two!
    
    The twins are such a joy if we could only break them of the nightime
    problem.  I guess we'll just have to "bite the bullet" and try letting
    them cry a bit longer.  (the first time we tried this I broke after
    45 minutes - just seems so cruel to me.)
    
    Anyway, it's great to talk to other twin moms!  Deb, welcome back
    to work - I know it's hard to leave them but it's also nice having a 
    break from them, too!  :')
    
    Happy Holidays!
    Susan

    I only have one child, Christopher who is now 19 months old, but
    I can relate to your sleeping dilemma with your children.
    Christopher did not sleep through the night until well over a
    year.  I could not allow him to "cry it out" - I tried but it
    did not seem right for me.  I got a lot of advice to let him cry,
    but chose not to follow that path.  He now sleeps straight 
    through unless he's ill.  I guess what I am trying to say is your
    children will sleep through the night when they are ready.  So
    if you choose not to let them cry it out it's okay.  You may be
    sleep deprived for a little while longer, but it does end.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Terry 

    
    I know that nearing a year, was when we switched the kids to 1 nap/day. 
    Usually RIGHT after lunch, for a couple hours.  If they're waking that
    often, and particularly that soon after going down,I'd venture a guess
    that they're just not that tired yet.
    
    Are they doing anything physical yet?  Crawling or anything??  Can you
    "chase them around" the house to make them crawl faster and get more
    'burnt out'?  
    
    As another option - pick nights.  Split the week with Hubby, and decide
    which night one of you will get up with the kids, and let the other
    sleep the WHOLE night through.  If you're both bouncing out of bed,
    neither one of you is going to be getting any sleep.  At least if you
    know you can have a WHOLE night to yourself, that might make it a lot
    better.  Also you may want to think about playing a classical radio
    station, softly in their room.  If they're going right back with some
    comforting, it sounds more like a lonely/scared sort of thing that
    you're trying to solve ....
    
    What does the doctor say???
    
    -Patty

    Patty,
    
    thanks for the note.  The doctor isn't much help - just said they're
    probably in a habit by now and we might want to try breaking it and
    letting them cry.  I think my husband and I both know it's inevitable
    at some point but we're not sure we have it in us right now!
    
    They're both crawling and pulling themselves up on things so they are
    getting alot of exercise.  We've tried keeping them up later and they
    do the same thing.  I really think they are just into such a habit that
    their clocks wake them up no matter what.
    
    I like your idea about splitting the week between us and having only 1
    get up all night and then switching.
    
    I remember my older boys stopped taking naps altogether when they were
    1 yrs. old but they went to bed early and slept all night so it was
    worth it.  
    
    Thanks for your help -
    
    Susan

    
    Hmmmmmmmmm .... another thought might be to establish a SHORT routine,
    that's something that they can repeat themselves.  I've never been one
    to really let the kids cry it out - it's just too frustrating for me to
    be laying there listening to them, AND I feel bad )-:  I'd be pretty
    damn upset if I was crying and everyone was ignoring me .... 
    
    But maybe you can get them attached to something other than "you" to
    learn to fall asleep.  A "blankie" or "bear" or something that they
    associate only/mostly with bedtime.
    
    For Jonathan (now 2), he's always had a pacifier, and a 'blankie'
    (which is a cloth diaper), and has assorted stuffed animals, or his
    Thomas train that he likes to bring to bed.  I've always pushed towards
    the wind-up stuffed animal, because it's soothing.  
    
    So, bedtime is a drink, a pacifier, his blankie and then whatever other
    item he wants.  Ask if he wants his lamb (musical), wind that up for
    him, he usually cuddles with it, and he's off to sleep.  If he wakes
    up, it's a matter of relocating the blankie/pacifier, (which he can
    normally do himself), and he falls back to sleep.  Sometimes he needs
    help, but it's usually a quickie - here ya go, zonk.  
    
    If you're convinced it's just a matter of HABIT that's waking them,
    then you could try a little twist to it - (prepare for a few days of
    agony, but I THINK it'd work!) .... keep them up *ALL* *DAY* period.
    Don't let them fall to sleep.  Do whatever it takes to keep them awake,
    and then when you finally let them sleep, they'll be less likely to
    wake up.  A couple days of this, and it may just be enough to break the
    routine.  Maybe you could take off a Friday or Monday, and make the
    w/end 3 days ....??  Fight fire with fire - if they're waking up, keep
    them awake.  And if *I* were in your shoes, the nights you try to get
    them to sleep through (if you try this), I'd give them each a good dose
    of tylenol/advil before bed, to help them REALLY zonk out.  It seems
    like a much more civilized way of dealing with the problem than
    listening to them scream (of course keeping them awake all day won't be
    ANY fun!) - but compared to not sleeping, it's probably bareable -
    especially if it works!
    
    ....ask another Dr.  They still seem too young for "Ferber" style stuff
    to me.... but I'm a wimp when it comes to my kids crying (-;

    Thanks Patty, some good suggestions.  I did start to put them to bed
    with their stuffed rabbits.  They would lay down and hug them and have
    their pacifiers and that would get them to sleep.  For some reason, it
    doesn't seem enough anymore to get them back to sleep so maybe I should
    try something different.  They got these cute gloworms for Xmas and I
    thought that would be great in their cribs but I think they're afraid
    of them right now!
    
    I'm like you, I can't stand to let them "cry it out".  I, too, am a
    wimp at that.  My heart just breaks too much even though I know they'll
    be all right.
    
    I've also tried Tylenol, Motrin, Benedryl and Dimetapp when they were
    sick and the tylenol and motrin when they weren't sick to see if it
    would help them sleep.  Nothing zonks them out!  The dimetapp had the
    reverse affect on them and they were up all night!  I should have known
    they would probably be the only kids on earth that wouldn't get tired
    from any of the above...:')
    
    I'll keep plugging along and try a few different methods and see what
    happens.  Can't get worse so I guess that's good news!
    
    Susan

    This may come a little late (I've been on vacation), but I've
    included an excerpt from Penelope Leach's book "Your Baby and
    Child from Birth to Age Five."
    
    Sleeping Difficulties
    
    "In this age-group any difficulties are yours, not the baby's.
    He will sleep as much as he needs to sleep; he is still not 
    capable of keeping himself awake and he is no more capable than
    you are of waking himself up on purpose.  You need never add
    worry about whether he can be getting enough sleep to worry about
    the fact that you certainly are not!"
    
    This section goes on to say that children as they get older
    require less sleep and the parents may have to adjust the day
    sleep patterns.  I think it is an interesting point that 
    children do not wake at night as a habit - although some 
    child psychologists may disagree.
    
    May son's sleep pattern did eventually settle down, but it
    took him over a year.  I did not let him cry it out, but there
    were nights when I was tempted.  ;-)
    
    Good luck,
    Terry

    I have a question for you fellow parents of twins...
    
    Does it bug you when people stop and admire or ask
    questions (yes, some stupid) about your twins?  And 
    if so why?
    
    I ask because I have been going to a Mothers of Twins club
    and alot of them seem anoyed by this.  I know my twins are
    only 5 months old but I love it when people stop me and 
    ask about my cuties.  Maybe it's all the heartache we went
    through to have them....but I realy don't mind at all.  I
    feel so proud to tell them all about them.
    
    Just wondering,
    
    Deb (Jordan & Brooke's proud Mommy)

    For me, it depends on what I'm trying to accomplish.  If I'm in a hurry
    and really need to get something done -- then yes, it does annoy me. 
    If I'm on a stroll through the mall -- no problem.  My daughter's are
    fraternal so they look quite different -- they're also different sizes
    (height and weight) so sometimes people think they're singletons not
    twins.  
    
    How do you like the MoT club?  I haven't been to any meetings and have
    been considering joining one.
    
    Regards,
    Lisa
    

    
    Not twins .... but somewhere in here there's a string (Comments note?)
    about people stopping people commenting on their baby (singletons).
    
    I never minded comments, and thought they were neat, but it's the
    people that come up and want to TOUCH my kids, that I start to lose
    it... going to the mall, I felt like they should be wearing signs
    "LOOK, but don't touch!"  
    
    (-;

    Lisa,
    
    The MOT club I go to is in the Fitchburg Ma. area and so
    far I like it.  It's not too big, I'd say about 50 people
    are members but on an average about 15 of them show up 
    at any given meeting.  It's fun to talk to others who
    know what your going through and there's some good 
    advise from mothers who have already done the stages
    your going through.
    
    And yes Patty I agree....I don't like them touching my kids
    either.  Especialy thier when they touch thier little hands
    and you know they will put them right in thier mouth....yucko.
    
    Deb

    gulp, um golly, um gee.....  I'm a serious offender, then!  I
    love kids!  And where I may not exactly run up and give them
    a hug, I may comment on their pretty hair, and tug or tease
    with a toy they may be carrying.  Sometimes a pretty dress may
    have beautiful lace I may touch and comment on.
    
    Got an education here..... I think I'll be more conscious when
    admiring or socializing with children in stores, malls, etc.    Of
    course, if the kid or mom looks nervous, I back away immediately
    anyways.  I can understand the fear someone is going to snatch
    your kid.  Especially now that I have one of my own.
    
    Deb,
    
    I think you sound just so happy, and I hope that feeling does not
    wear thin for you as time goes by.  Be proud!
    
    							cj *->

    For the most part, it doesn't bother me when people stop to admire my
    sons.  The most often asked question, though, is - are they twins? 
    Keep in mind, my sons are 10 month old identical twins so you don't
    get any closer than that and they still ask!
    
    When I'm in a hurry, I make sure I don't make eye contact with anyone
    that way they can't stop me.  Seems to work most of the time.  It's
    interesting to see how many people who stop me had twins or are a
    twin.  Before I was pregnant with the twins, I hardly knew of any and
    now they're everywhere!

I totally agree with -1: it is amazing how many people have twins or are twins. 

I never felt quite at ease when people are asking questions about my two
(identical) boys (14months). They love to comment about the extra work. Yes,
there is quite some more work; but it is also largely due to the fact that I
have a 3 year old who also wants his share of attention. Also I work full-time
and have an excellent nurse. Should I now try to go into all details of the
situation to be able to give a fair picture of my work? Or should I just say 
politely with big eyes: "Yes, but the joy of having them just compensates
everything!"? 

The only question I like to answer is if I have twins in my family. I can
faithfully answer "Yes". Now if I get the impression that they agree to listen
to more, I give the following comment with it:

1) The twins are brothers of my husband from the first marriage of the second
   husband of his mother (which implies that there is no common heredity)

2) Twins are only inherited through the mother

3) Only non-identical twins can be inherited

Very few people listen up to the last point. But the people who do are the most
interesting for me.

>3) Only non-identical twins can be inherited

I've never heard this.  I have a (non-identical) twin sister.
The ability to ovulate more than one egg is inherited,
but the 'chance' that the egg will radically split into two
separate embryos is not inherited?  neat!
bob

    Bob,
    
     Identicals are accidents of nature.  Fraternal twins come from the
    quirk of more than one egg being produced in the same cycle.
    
    meg

    When I was shoppig with the twins (identical boys) one day, some
    guy was arguing the point with me that identicals are inherited
    and fraternal anyone can have!  Having identicals and no history
    of twins anywhere in my family (mother's side or father's, etc)
    wasn't enough for him!
    
    It's interesting to see how many experts there are out there on this
    topic who've never experienced it!  I just smiled and kept walking...

>    <<< Note 208.160 by CSC32::M_EVANS "It doesn't get better than......" >>>
>    
>     Identicals are accidents of nature.  Fraternal twins come from the
>    quirk of more than one egg being produced in the same cycle.

    I raise sheep,  and twinning is VERY important.  We tend to only
    keep ewes who twin regularly, keep the daughters from the
    most consistant twinners, and use rams from ewes that were
    a twin and have twins.

    I've met quite a few shepherds who believe that its the ram
    that contributes the most to 'throwing twins'.  And there may
    be something to that, since the ram's phermones play a big
    part in the whole fertility thing.
    bob

    This is very interesting to me.  My mom is a fraternal twin.
    Oh no, this could mean possible twins for me.
    
    Is there any truth to the statement that twins skip a generation?
    I was always told that my mom (since she is a twin) was very
    unlikely to give birth to twins, but I am more likely.
    
    Thanks,
    Terry

    In my case no one in my Mom's generation had twins. Interestingly, both 
    my Mom and Dad's families had twins in the previous generation.  I
    guess there was no escape for me.  I keep telling my soon to be engaged
    sister to watch out after she ties the knot :-)!
    
    Happy but tired MOT (Mother of Twins)

    And then there's the branch of my family that has had twins in every
    generation since 1625 [perhaps even longer, but that's where my
    records end].
    
      Annie

    Some of the mothers in my neiborhood playgroup and I have been
    having this little debate....so for those of you who have both..
    
    Is it harder having twins or a toddler and a baby?
    
    I love having twins and don't mind the work most of the time...but
    a few of my neighbors who have 1 year olds and are thinking about
    having another tell me they think they will have it harder with
    a toddler running around and a new baby than I do with 2 the same 
    age.
    
    So any comments on this one?
    
    Deb

I don't have twins, but I have to imagine that any two kids, of reasonably 
close (w/in 2-3 years), but different, age, is going to be harder.  The simple 
logistics of it all, pretty much demand that.  

Imagine this:

You have your infant, and your 18 mos old, and you're going shopping.  Stick 
the baby in the stroller, but the 18mos old wants to walk.  So you have to 
chase.  But the stroller can't fit everywhere that an 18mos old can.  Stick 
the 18mos old in the stroller w/ the infant, and the infant cries, demanding 
to be cared for.  Working with that one, the 18mos old climbs out and runs 
away.  You can't just plop the baby down, and you can't carry them both back 
- you're pretty stuck.  

I think it's harder because you're trying to satisfy two entirely different 
sets of "wants" and "needs".  If you have 2 2 yr olds, it's reasonable to go 
to the park and let them play, and they're happy.  With 1 2 yr old and 1 baby, 
this gets harder to juggle feeding times, naps etc.  The beauty in having them 
the same age, is that you can (SORT of!) keep them on the same schedule.  

I remember the battle with Chris and Jason was always that Chris wanted to 
go-go-go, but Jason was still too young and needed a nap.  So then I'd have a 
wired 4 yr old, a sleepy 1 yr old, and trying to keep the older one quiet, so 
the younger could sleep.

I've found I end up compromising their ages, and a lot of times do things that 
are a "stretch" for Jason, and maybe "boring" for Chris.  A lot of times, 
instead of acting like I have an 11 year old and an 8 year old, it's a lot 
simpler if I have 2 9-1/2 year olds.  Of course with Jonathan it's more like 
having 3 7 years olds! (-:

Both the older boys are in soccer - but they're in different age-leagues, so 
it's twice as much work to get games/practice and all that coordinated.  If 
they were the same age, it'd be 1/2 as much work.  They have different 
subjects in school, so I'm helping 1 with addition, and 1 with division - twice 
as much work for me.  Teaching 1 phonics, and 1 alphabetizing.  I imagine that 
with twins you can sit and go over multiplication with both of them, AND since 
they're both doing it, you have yet another 'helper' if only one of them is
stuck.

There's a lot of little things that are just annoying.  If you're going to 
have 2 kids, and you have twins, when they outgrow something, you're done with 
it.  If it's the 1st kid, you have the dilemma of "Should I save it for #2?" 
and if so, WHERE?!?  There's tons of toys/clothes that I could dump that Chris 
and Jason are long-since done with.  But in "5 years" Jonathan will be their 
age, and he could use them.  So now they get held onto for years longer ....
I'll have had kids in diapers for 6 years (2 kids) - you get it for 3
(assuming 3 when trained).  Yeah, you get twice as many, but when you're done,
you're done!  

The high chair was already resigned to the basement once ... but it's 
underfoot once again.  Just a lot of little things like that.  Going from 1 
kid to 2 kids is about 4 times the work that 1 was.  I don't imagine that 
twins are 4 times the work of a single birth.  ??

That's a non-twin Mom cut at it .... any others??

Patty

    RE: a few
    
    Well, I've had the "pleasure?" of both situations.  Our older two are
    1.5yrs apart.  No problems here.  Just like an extended single one. 
    The twins (2nd two kids) have been an interesting ride.  While I'm not
    a fan of "professional" wrestling, the concept of a tag-team fits real
    well with twins.  During the first couple of months, one would wake up
    and cry for whatever reason.  By the time the first was quiet, the
    other would be awake ready to take over...  
    
    Now (3 years later!), at meal time what one gets told not to do, the
    other promptly performs.  
    
    Perhaps one of the more interesting phenomenon is the
    inter-communication which has existed for a number of years between the
    twins.  There was a lot of "babbling" which apparently was conversation
    based upon the facial reactions of the twins.
    
    All in all, I can't say which is easier as either case has good and bad
    times.  If I had to make a choice, having one at a time would be easier
    overall.  Yes, it would be for a longer time, but at a much slower
    pace.  I think that you have a bit more time to enjoy their growth with
    one.  (Its also abit easier on the wallet.)
    
    Dan

    I also have both situations.  My older two boys are 2.5 yrs. apart (12 &
    14.5) and my other two are 16 month old twin boys.  I would 
    definitely say that my experience is twins are harder.
    It's alot easier to chase after 1 than 2!  When my 2nd was born, my
    oldest was 2.5 and very independent - still that situation was alot
    easier than this one.  When one of the twins starts to do something
    they shouldn't, the other one is very eager to join in so you really do
    have double the trouble!  To say nothing of the first 10 months of
    never sleeping more than 2 hours at any time!
    
    Although the twins are very good, it's still so much more work overall,
    IMHO.  Since the twins have been born, I've said on many occasions that
    my worst nightmare would have been if I had a toddler when they were born 
    - now that would be difficult!  I know 2 women in this situation and 
    I don't know how they do it.  At least I had alot of help from my older
    two with the little ones.
      

I had my twins when my oldest was 23 months. This was about 1 1/2 years ago. I 
don't know what it means to have only two children, I was never in that 
situation.

I find it dreadfully unpractical to have twins, you need such a lot more 
"engines" to be able to move around. Up to recently I could never get quickly
into a store, you had to take the stroller out and put both of the twins in and
take the oldest by the hand. Now, if I know exactly what I want and are lucky
that the store is empty, I can take the twins by their hand, and have the oldest
watch for himself (unless there is a dangerous situation, in which he has to
take the hand of a screaming 1 1/2 year old). But of course when you try to put
them back into the car, it takes quite some convincing and brute force 8-).

Why do you think I enjoy work so much? ... and I never go shopping anymore?

But they are all so cute and they are so much fun!

Just for the fun of it: We are having a week and week-end appartment, this meant
6 children beds (not counting the 3 folding beds at our parents place..., 4 high
chairs, 3 twin strollers). We could open a second-hand shop in a year or two...

But again, they are all really enjoyable!