Conference moira::parenting

    You aren't alone.  The colors are difficult, they were the last thing
    my daughter got to.  Mainly because she had a very specific color in
    mind when she thought "blue".  If it wasn't that color then it wasn't
    blue.  Keep reenforcing with books, crayons etc and she will pick it
    up. 
    
    Color blindness is rare in girls.  You should be able to note a pattern
    in her responses, not just saying red is blue.  The most typical is
    a problem with red/green where they both look greyish or brownish.

    
    I would think that if she called the dress any color at all that she at
    least sees that there is a color there.
    
    Chris D.

Colours are definitely tough ... because colour is a quality of an object.
Generally kids have a tough time with qualities ... like texture and colour.
Some qualitites, like texture, are easy to do by feel, whereas colour is
distinctly more abstract.

Also, colour tends to have "favourites" and also produces interesting
parental reactions.  For example, one of our daughters would forever
describe something as pink to get a reaction.

Not knowing colours at three is definitely not a problem.

I don't mean to burst bubbles here either, but the concept of a kiddy
being able to count to 20 means nothing in itself ... it just means that
she has recognized a pattern that produces a "good girl" reaction from
parents.  Numbers are abstract.  When she can start using them in non-
pattern order is where she has really learned her numbers.  The same
thing applies to alphabet and words.

Our eldest, Jennifer, coming up to 11, could count, could recite the
alphabet and so on...  what we didn't realize until grade 2 was that
she really didn't know how to use them, because she was struggling
reading and using numbers with arithmetic.  She used to astound us by
telling us shop names and so on ... we thought she was reading them ...
but all she was really doing was recognzing the sign with the place.
(She would recognize the shop Towers but couldn't read for example
"the light on the tower" even at 7).

Give her some more time ... in the next year, colours will come ... this
is PERFECTLY NORMAL.

Stuart

    re .2
    
    
    Not necessarily ...
    
    Try to explain what a "colour" is to someone blind who can reason ...
    then try explaining it to someone who cannot reason (at least
    verbally).  So it is quite possible she may not even understand
    what you mean when you say the dress is pink, or the trousers are
    blue. 
    
    Stuart

If you think about it, color is a pretty abstract concept.  Your blue might be 
my azure, and any number of very unlike objects, such as a book, a dress, the 
sky, might be "blue."

>       She already can count to 20 and knows her alphabet and can recite
>    and sing numerous songs but is really off on the colors. Is it 
>    possible she could be color blind? Today she had a red dress on and 
>    said it was purple and yesterday she said her yellow dress was pink.
 
I would think that it would be more indicative of color blindness if she could 
not distinguish between like objects of a different color.  For example, if 
there were five crayons, four of which were an identical shade of blue, and 
one of which was red, and she could not pick out the one that is different 
(assuming she understands the concept of "different," -- I forget at what age 
children pick up various concepts), that might be more indicative of color 
blindness that if she calls a yellow dress pink.

Clay

True color blindness has more to do with shading than anything else. My dad was
color blind and had great difficulty distinguishing purple from blue and pink
from red but always knew red from blue. Also it is my understanding that color
blindness is genetic, thus also hereditary. I would speak to the pedi about it.

    re:.6
    
    Interesting....I'm not sure that is accurate. Color blind would in my
    mind be much more than shading. I have what was labled "red/green color
    confusion" and it is concerned more with shades or primary colors
    close together. I think there are more levels of diagnosis than just
    yes or no on color blind.
    
    For the base noter, I liked the suggestions of experiments - same color
    - different objects, etc.
    
    JR

Colors have been difficult for Juli to learn, too.

She cruised through numbers, the alphabet, songs, vocabulary ... but when it came
to colors, it was a "guessing game" that she sometimes faked us out on (when
she lucked out in guessing the "right" color, only to discover that's all it was ...
-- a lucky guess!).

"Buuu" (blue) is her favorite color, so everything was "buu".  So that was her
"first" guess, orange was her second favorite color (so that was her second
guess) ... and red is her least favorite color (so that was her last guess).

I also notice that that is how she chooses crayons!!!  Most of her pictures are
dominated with blue and purple! ... and almost NEVER red!

Jim worked on the colors more than I do/did.  He's always saying "Juli, look,
a red shirt today ... what color is your shirt?  Look, it matches my shirt ...
what color is my shirt?"  Jim was always pointing out colors and making
comparisons and asking Juli to repeat.

Then ... it just seemed that one day (fairly recently) the colors just made
sense to her!  She gets them right about 80% of the time now.

So, I think it something that's a bit more difficult for them to figure out
... it just doesn't fit a pattern (like numbers, the alphabet, etc. -- which
are "memorized") ... colors are abstract (and vary).

Just takes a little more time.

Dottie

    According to my optometrist, who I saw just a few months ago, some
    conditions like color-blindness are only found in males. So, your
    daughter is most likely not colorblind. As a tangent to this, another
    example of this is Hemophilia (sp?) or, the inability of the blood to
    clot. It only manifests itself in males. Females can be carriers,
    however.
    
    	Frank

    There are several types of conditions we refer to as colour-blindness
    ...
    
    the classic red-green colour blindness is found predominantly in males
    (although not exclusively ... and yes females do tend to carry the
    gene for colour blindness where it is genetically caused) and results
    in the inability to distinguish red and green.  They are seen as muddy
    grey brown.  All these colours have a similar luminance (brightness)
    which makes it difficult to distinguish them by brightness.
    
    The other more common (but orders of magnitude less so than red-green)
    is yellow-blue.  This one I understand tends not to be sex selective.
    Yellows and blues tend to be grey / green.  Because of the luminance
    differences of yellow and blue, it is far more possible to guess
    yellows and blues ... but still very easy to be wrong!
    
    Then there are other more rare colour combinations ...
    
    Far less rare is difficulty in discriminating colours ...
    
    like blue to green and shades between ...  eg some see the same
    turquoise as blue others as green; red to blue and shades between
    eg some see plum as purple, others as red.  Yellows ... some
    people tend to see white as very yellow ... like taking a picture
    of a light bulb looks extrememly yellow.
    
    Stuart

    I am colorblind, as is my uncle, as is my nephew. I concur with the
    previous statements that it is rare in females. 
    
    
    Peter Q.
    

    Just out of curiosity, are you the classic red-green colour blind ?
    
    I've often wondered what the impact would be on other colours.  I
    suppose the easiest way would be to take an rgb colour monitor
    and to link the r & g signals.
    
    Stuart

    Yes, also bad on dark blue/purples. And some greens /browns...
    
    q
    

    Ahhh yes, that makes sense ...
    
    since brown is usually the result of mixing primarily green and red
    
    The purple blue makes sense too because the purple would likely
    be a dull dark blue if the red content was replaced by a grey
    brown.
    
    One day I'm going to perform this exercise on TV ... (linking red
    and green) to see the results ... I get the impression that life
    would degenreate to white, sepia, blues and black ... and the more
    green a turquoise, the more a dull blue it would become.  Ughhhh!
    
    Stuart

    My husband comes from a long line of color-blind males (red/green).
    My daughter knew her colors quite early (2-3) so I never even thought
    about the fact that color-blindness runs in the family.  When my son
    didn't have a clue about colors at age 3-4, I asked the preschool if 
    they thought he might e colorblind.  The director said in her umpteen
    years in the business, she had never witnessed a child (boy) who
    appeared colorblind. Actually she felt that even *if* a child was
    colorblind, they adjust and give (learn) the appropriate names for any
    given color/shade.  They may not experience the same green or red as
    you and I, but they can attach the name that is taught to them by
    teachers.  Later on in life they can take the typical colorblind tests
    to find out for sure.  
    
    It's all very interesting to me as an graphic artist.  My husband who has
    failed colorblind tests and lost job opportunities (electronics/  
    resister reading) because of it, is a *wonderful* interiour decorator.
    Many years ago (in our dark period :^), we bought a Hunter (dark) Green 
    bed set (dust ruffle, pillow sham).  Our intention was to paint all of the
    bedroom walls Hunter Green as well.  The trick was to find an exact
    match.  Even when I took the pillow sham to the paint store with me, I
    couldn't get a match.  Out of desperation one day, my husband dropped
    by the store (without the sham) and scanned the paint chips, grabbed a
    couple and brought them home. One was a perfect match!  Even up on the
    walls, the match was perfect.
    
    Jodi-

    Even though it's rare for a female to be color blind, it's far
    from impossible.   I went to school with a girl who was
    yellow/green color blind; none of us would have known it if she
    hadn't told us.  
    
    --bonnie

Color blindness is a sex linked hormone which means that it is found on an
"X" chromosome of the either XX (girl) or XY (boy) chromosome pair.  The reason
that boys have it more frequently than girls is that it is a recessive gene.
If the boy has it on his X chromosome, he is color blind since there is no
corresponding gene on the Y chromosome.  A girl needs to have it on both of
the Xs to be color blind or the "dominant" gene for non-color blind takes 
precedent.

This also means that if a girl is color blind than her father is colorblind and
that if a boy is colorblind then he got it from his mother (who may be color
blind or a carrier).

Genetics 101 :-)  ccb

    I have red-green color blindness -- I believe the technical term for it
    is red-green dichromat.  I have difficulty distinguishing between red
    and green, and colors containing red and green.  However, these colors
    do not appear grey-brown to me, as suggested in earlier notes. I see
    red as red, and green as green; the colors are bright and vivid, and I 
    get great visual pleasure from them. 
    
    My difficulty comes in identifying (naming) colors of red or green
    objects under low-light conditions, or from a great distance, or when 
    a color is washed out or faint.  Some specific examples:
    
    Picking out my light-pink shirt from a dimly lit closet containing
    mostly white shirts. I have to bring the shirts into daylight to see the
    pink one. 
    
    Seeing a green traffic light at night, when there are lots of other
    white lights. From a distance, the green traffic light will look like
    just another street light. It's only as I approach it that the green
    becomes noticeable. 
    
    So, I'm not sure whether my color blindness is mild, and that there are
    more serious forms of red-green color blindness that do leave people
    with just gray/brown tones.  But I felt compelled to let people know
    that color blindness is not always as bad as it may sound. I see and
    enjoy color, and have ways to get by in situations where color
    differentiation is needed. 
    
    By the way, my son is not colorblind. He has no problem distinguishing
    colors -- even under low-light conditions. 
    
    

    re: a couple back
    
    That's true of the color confusions caused by genes, but as I recall
    this girl's form of color blindness wasn't genetically linked. 
    
    --bonnie

Re. .19

Genetics are hardly as cut and dried as I made out in my previous reply.  For
traits that are genetically linked, it is only that the majority of cases 
work out as indicated.  There are all kinds of other factors that enter in
such as mutations, cross over, etc.  Genes which have been dominant can become 
recessive and vice versa.  There was an excellent issue on the subject of
Scientific American devoted to this a long time ago (15 years?).  And there
can be other causes than genetics.  But in general what I said still holds true.
This is why if there is a genetic related disease in the family, you are at
higher risk for passing it on than if there isn't.  Doesn't mean it still can't
happen.

Re. .18

Unless your wife is a carrier or colorblind, it is unlikely that your son 
would be color blind because you are.  Your mother is probably a carrier.

Cheryl

    I also worried about Brad being color blind because my brother is color
    blind.  When I talked to his pedi she said," They really can't detect
    color blindness until about 5 or 6 years of age.  
    
    Now Brad knows all his colors!!!1
    
    Sasha

    Just wanted to back up the case that females can be colorblind too.
    
    My father is color blind.  He has problems with green/brown mostly.
    My sister is color blind.  She also has green/brown problems.
    I am color blind but notice more problems with blue/purple shades.
    (I believe my maternal grandmother was also colorblind)
    
    As a previous noter said, I still see the colors but have problems
    distinguishing between them sometimes.  I have failed every color blind
    test I have taken.  The tests I have normally seen are alot of dots in
    which most people can make out a pattern of dots in 1 color forming a
    number.  For the life of me, I can't see the number - just alot of
    colored dots!
    
    Another test that both my sister and I fail is to look out at a apple
    tree.  It is difficult for us to see the red apples among the green
    leaves.  Once we're up close we can - but from a distance we can't.
    
    Just another persons observation ...
    
    - Barb

    Color blindness of the red-green variety is due to a problem on the X
    chromosome.  Because women have 2 X chromosomes, and because one good
    copy of that gene is sufficient to distinguish colors, it is not common
    for women to have that problem.  Because men have only one X
    chromosome, it is quite common for men to have that problem.
    
    Not common is not the same as impossible, so it is possible for women
    to have red-green color blindness.
    
    If this were the kind of color blindness your daughter had, then you
    would expect her father to be color blind, because one of her X
    chromosomes came from him (and he only has one to give).
    
    I imagine that perceiving colors is complex enough to involve multple
    genes, though, so other genes might also be responsible for color
    blindness.
    
    Beryl

    Here's how we taught colors in preschool.
    
    Materials: 3 like objects in red, blue, and yellow
    (for example: a red square, a blue square, a yellow square,
    if you mix shapes, the child could confuse the attribute you
    are teaching)
    
    Procedure:
    
    1. Show the child red and say "This is red." Repeat with other colors.
    2. Play games such as "Find the red square and put it on your
    foot (on the table, on the rug, next to the chair, etc.)"
    "Give me the blue one. Give me the yellow one. etc."
    Play this type of game many, many times.
    3. Only when you are sure the child can answer correctly, ask
    "what color is this one?" (might take weeks, might take months)
    
    Reinforce in everyday activities. "I'm wearing a blue shirt today."
    
    Once the 3 primary colors are mastered, go on to the secondary
    colors.
                                

      
    Thanks for all the replies. 
    
    I have been working with Pamela fairly regularly and she is doing much
    better on her color identification. I wonder if she wasn't saying the
    wrong color just to get more attention from me.  I have 4 daughters	
    under the age of 6 and nobody gets a whole lot of attention. Anyway
    I tried the colored crayon test mentioned in a previous note and she
    did fine. 
    
       Thanks for all the info about colorblindness..
    
                             Jill
    
    

    
    I know this note is quite old, but I found it interesting because my
    husband has a mild form of red/green colourblindness (you can probably
    tell from the spelling that I'm in the UK!).  He has most problems with
    greens/browns - he's got a sweat-top at home that we constantly argue
    about, he says it's grey, I say it's green :-).
    
    I'm expecting our first baby and I wonder if it's a boy if it will
    inherit the colourblindness.  Andy's maternal grandfather was
    colourblind, but his Mum isn't, which seems to tie in with the fact
    that it's mostly found in males but females can be carriers.  Andy's
    grandfather was red/green colourblind, but was a train driver for
    nearly 50 years!  They only found out the year before he retired!
    
    Sam
    

    Color-blindness is not necessarily a problem.  I am red-green
    deficient.  I can tell reds, greens and blues just fine.  What I have
    trouble with is shades of color that are close to each other.  For
    example, at night green lights look white to me.  Light shades of blue
    look grey to me.
    
    I've learned to not argue about color.
    
    Dan

    My ex-husband and two of his three brothers are color-blind
    and they've all managed to compensate somehow.
    
    One brother is an artist, so no one even notices if his clothes
    don't match.  And we just assume he's taken "artistic license"
    if the colors in his paintings don't quite match our expectations.
    
    Another brother is in construction and his wife matches up his
    clothes.
    
    My ex-husband was an electronic technician and used a meter to
    determine the correct wires to hook up, and the position of the
    light in a traffic light to determine whether it was green or red 
    or yellow (of course, he had to be pretty close to it to determine 
    position).  He now sells computers, so there's no problem there. 
    
    It seems to be inherited via the mother, but predominantly affects
    males only.  Again, only 3 of the 4 male children of his family have it.
    
    good luck.
    Noranne
              

    I am reminded of a funny story from a previous job I had.

    The company built color graphics monitors (among other things).  One
    day I was asked to come over and help a group of people with a problem.
    I went along and found 5 or 6 men standing around a new prototype
    system, looking a bit baffled.  It turned out that all of them were
    colorblind, and the task was to pick the color for the casing of the
    new system.  They had a bunch of color samples, but couldn't make any
    progress on selecting one...

				cheryl