Conference moira::parenting

    Could it be possible that he's got a mild urinary tract infection?
    If he's actually squeezing/pulling on his penis it might be to
    relieve the irritation that sometimes accompanies that.
    
    

    Deb, please let me know what works for you.  I'm dealing with a real
    disgusting habit in my 5-1/2 year old.  He's constantly got a hand or
    finger in his nose or mouth, or just generally near his face.  I've run
    out of answers, except to remind him everytime I see it.  I simply say
    the word "hand" in a rather monotone way.  But let's face it, it's a
    habit, and I'm not with him 24 hours a day to remind him not to do it.
    
    I feel my method is sort of a "code word".  It really doesn't embarras
    him by saying the whole phrase.  It just sort of makes him aware of
    where is hand is located, and to remove it.  Oh I have resorted to a
    little smack of his hand, after I've reminded him several times in a
    row, but those occations are few and far between.  And for your
    purposes hitting a hand that is near his crotch may not be "too cool"
    mom!
    
    Lyn

    As I was reading the basenote I was saying to myself "The solution she
    gets will work with my 7 year old and his "habit"!"  I, like Lyn, will
    use a one word command that will get my son's attention.  Sometimes,
    when I say his name in that low stern way he will look at me and say,
    "What?"  I just look at him eye to eye and he knows what I am talking
    about.  Sometimes I have to say it frequently - sometimes I can go days
    without having to say it.  The hard part is definately when he is not
    within hearing distance.  
    
    I, too, look forward to helpful hints here.
    
    (Deb, you are not alone!!)
    
    -sandy
    

    Although I have not dealth with this problem (yet) a few suggestions
    come to mind:
    
    1.  A reward system like those used for toilet training, but updated
    for the older child's interests.  For instance, 1 week free of the
    habit gets him a meal at McDonalds...
    
    2.  Use a hand sign when you can't speak to him, like during a ball
    game.  Of course, you have to get his eye contact first.  Then used a
    pre-established signal  that doesn't have another common meaning. 
    Follow up with a smile and perhaps an ok hand sign if he stops.
    
    L

    Each Friday, the Boston Globe Home section has an article on some
    aspect of children.  A few months ago the article discussed nervous
    habits, and described the types of "symptoms" you mention - lack of
    awareness of doing it, no apparent physical cause etc.  If I still have
    the article I'll bring it in and paraphrase parts of it.  What I do
    recall, however, was some discussion about not calling attention to the
    nervous habit all the time; habits tend to fade out after a few months
    and get replaced sometimes by something else....... It also talked
    about reasons for NOT using reward systems for addressing nervous
    habits.
    
    I'll check for the article.
    
    regards,
    

    Funy thing this morning...My son (with the habit) thold me the kids at
    school tease him.  I asked why.  He said, "because I (insert habit here)". 
    I told him he can make them stop.  "How?" he asked.  "Stop doing it!"
    
    OH!
    
    We'll see!
    
    -sandy
    

    re .0
    We have had the exact same issue with our son for the last several
    years.  He is now 10 and I finally see the first signs that he is
    getting over it.  We sat down with him once at about age 8 and
    discussed it with him rationally.  We found that he was usually nervous
    when doing it and that it felt good.  Our "code" was do you need to go
    to the bathroom. Then we got to the point where would say his name and
    he would realize that he was touching himself and would stop.  As he is
    getting older and more mature, he seems to need to do it less.  We have
    seen a real improvement in the last 6 months.
    
    As with most nervous habits, he didn't even realize he was doing it
    until we brought it to his attention.  So I advise you to sit down with
    him, try to analyze why he has the habit, explain to him why you think
    its important for him to stop, get him to agree, and then work out a plan 
    to help and support him.  
    
    Good Luck!
      

re: .0, .7

Another thing we did, in addition to the excellent suggestions in .7, was to 
say that we know it feels good, that it's OK to do it (none of this "you will 
go blind and insane" stuff), but that there are some things that you do in 
private, and if you want to do that, please do it in your own room.

It worked. 

Clay

    My 22 month old daughter has a habit I would like to stop.  Is there
    any way I can do this?
    
    She got a mosquito bite on her face over a month ago.  It is about an
    inch from the corner of her mouth on her right cheek.  When she is
    tired or bored, such as riding in the car, she picks at this spot.  It
    is not healing and bleeds a bit sometimes.  She picked at a bite on the
    left side too, then stopped and it healed.
    
    When I push her hand away and tell her to stop, she gets angry and
    continues doing it.
    
    Is this a typical behavior for a toddler?  I am concerned that this is
    a way of expressing some emotional problem.
    
    I don't want to punish her because I don't consider it misbehavior like
    biting.  But it is still disfiguring.
    
    Will she outgrow it?  Should I just ignore it?
    
    L
    

    
    
    	I have almost the same problem with my son.  He will put his
    fingers in his mouth alot.  He even tries to talk with them in there. 
    He isn't chewing his nails or sucking his fingers, he just put them in
    his mouth.  I tried pushing his hands away and even slaped them a few
    times.  This just made him do it more.
    
    	I have found if I give him something hold and play with, he wont do
    it much.  I'm not sure what would work with a bit.  Maybe something to
    deaden the bit so she doesn't have the urge to scratch it, it might
    itch.
    
    
    Virginia

    I think the spot on her cheek needs a couple of spectacular band-aids
    (at right angles over the boo-boo) for a week to 10 days, fresh
    replacements as needed (different colors, patterns or [ugh!] cartoon
    characters as the novelty and stickum wear off).
    
    Leslie

    My 14 month old is experimenting with reaching/touching everything!
    She loves the stereo knobs/bathroom drawers, etc.  My husband and
    I are on opposite sides of the world on this one.  I want her
    to explore, he wants her to touch nothing and play with her
    toys. 
    
    I do let her explore (when Dad isn't home, of course) but there are
    times she should not touch.  She seems to understand strong NO's
    but then begins to cry.  
    
    Am I unrealistic in thinking she won't touch if I don't allow her?
    Am I (are we) being inconsistent?  (yes).   I hate the word no.
    Is there a more effective way to keep the curiosity to a minimum
    or have I let it go too far?  It's very hard to babyproof the house
    (long story) and we have limited room.
    
    Kathy  
    touch there are a few things I don't want her
    touching 

    I think your husband and you should come up an agreement of
    what can be touched and what cann't.  Once you both agreed, you
    should both stick with it.  In our house, there are things only
    daddy and mommy can touch.  Such as tools and heavy equipments in
    daddy's workshop.  Such as things in bathroom cabinet.  We do let our 
    4 years old touches the stero after we taught him the proper way to 
    operate it.  Our 4 year old will now also operate VCR.  My 2 year old 
    is not allowed to touch stero.  But we let her turn on/off TV for us.
    If they played with something that they souldn't, they will be removed 
    from the object promptly.  And we will once again remind them the
    rules. 
    
    Wendy 

    Kathy,
    
    I feel for you -- I have a 14-month-old (and a 4-yr-old) and live in a
    five room apartment, and have the same problems. Our basic philosophy
    is that they need to explore, but we need to keep some of our stuff
    off-limits. So we have made all the lower cabinets and shelves in the
    kitchen available to her. She may make a mess with plastic containers
    and pots and pans, but who cares? She has a ball. Everything dangerous
    or fragile is locked up throughout the house.
    
    The stereo is a problem. We are trying to figure out a way to cover it
    temporarily so as to not constantly say NO to her, because that gets so 
    boring and harsh after a while.
    
    Lucy

All our stereo equipment was stacked in a single open cabinet.  We cut a piece 
of plexiglass that fit inside the cabinet to cover the equipment.  The remote
control infrared could pass throught the plexiglass so our remotes worked just
fine.  We did have to reach around/remove the plexiglass to change anything that
we couldn't do with the remote.

This worked until Michelle was around 20 months - when she was strong enough to 
bend the plexiglass and pull it out of the cabinet herself.

    please help me out with this habit...it's driving us crazy!!
    
    AJ who just turned 6, insists on kneeling on the kitchen chair to eat. 
    If he's not kneeling, he's got his feet up beside him like a "W", or he
    will just sit with one let under his butt.  He will change position if
    we remind him, but I need to figure out how to stop it permanently.
    
    It's not as if he needs the extra height to reach the kitchen table. 
    We ditched the booster seat ages ago.  (anyone need one?)  The OT who
    did his evaluation for kindegarten noticed his "W" position and said it
    should be addressed, but this thing at the kitchen table is driving us
    crazy!
    
    Lyn

    Hi Lyn,
    
    Aside from a question of etiquette, why is this a concern?
    
    People in Japan kneel for their meals and I've never heard it does them
    any harm.  
    
    Assuming it is solely a question of good manners, I'm sure he'll stop
    eventually if he knows you want him to sit like a gentleman.  
    
    L
    
    

	I've heard that the "W" position is not good for the feet.
	My brother's pediatrician thinks that sitting that way for
	prolonged periods is the cause of his foot problems.  He's
	wearing orthotics at 6.

	Karen

    The "W" position is not good, period.  As an aside, my mother never did
    break the habit of one leg under, and as she got older there was a
    noticable difference between the size of her legs.
    
    My HMO WON'T pay for orthotics, I know I just did battle with them for
    one of them for my foot!
    
    When he kneels, it is causing him to sit with his back very rounded,
    (bent over) and in general lousy posture.   His posture is another 
    issue all together....
    
    Lyn

    Lyn,
    
    What you're describing sounds just like the way my brother used to sit.
    It could be worth having him checked for scoliosis.  It's a simple
    screening, and any doctor or nurse should be able to do it. If he has
    even a mild form of scoliosis, it may be very difficult for him to
    mimic "normal good posture".
    
    Statistically, one in ten boys and one in five girls has this problem.
    If it's detected early, you can address it (with exercises, for
    example) and go a long way toward minimizing the effects -- and the
    pain -- that will be felt as an adult.
    
    Beth

Lyn,

We broke Patrick of the 'W' sit by constantly pulling one leg out straight
whenever he sat down. We had to be very consistent. It took about three
months. Sometimes he would raise quite a fuss, and we'd have to pick him up
and distract him. We only pulled out one leg so he kept his balance. This
method was approved by his orthopoedist and his OT.

Good luck,

Chris

    He knows when he's sitting incorrectly, lately all I have to do is look
    at him and he changes from the "foot under" position to legs straight
    down in front.  He really does sit hunched over, but scoliosis has
    already been ruled out.  He simply just sits bent over.  Once in a
    while if I catch him sitting bent over I will sort of poke his back
    with a finger as a gentle reminder.  He has been followed by and
    orthopedic doctor (this doctor is the team doctor for the Red Sox) but
    just doesn't seem to share my concern about his posture.  Maybe it's
    time for a change in ortho doctors?
    
    Lyn

	So, Chris, is the position considered acceptable if one leg is
	out straight ?  Emily doesn't W sit too often, she's usually 
	kneeling more than sitting, but when she does go to sit from
	a kneel, she typically sticks one leg out straight, with the
	other tucked beneath her (sort of like the hurdle stretch).

	karen

One leg out straight is fine according to our orthopoedist. He can't have
both of them out straight while working with his hands, or else he'll be
slouching over to keep his balance.

Chris

    OK can someone help this weeks DESPERATE Mother???
    
    What do I do about the hands that ALWAYS seem to be around his face, I
    mean the disgusting nose picking and occational nail biting. C'mon he's
    six and ought to know what is socially acceptable and what isn't.  I
    mean he's always got a hand up around his face, he's creating little
    scratches on his face and red markes around his nose and mouth.  This
    is NOT thumb sucking.
    
    Lyn
    

    Lyn,
    
    I don't know but if you figure this one out, tell me what your solution
    is.  Carrie has picked up the annoying habit of liking her fingers (ala
    quaterback style) for turning ages.  She is also now doing this when
    concentrating or stressed.  
    
    At this point all I have been doing is making her wash her hands
    everytime I see her do this.  At least her hands are staying cleaner.  
    
    Meg  

good luck.  My manager does this - and I harass him for it.  Good thing he's
a good sport.



Pat

>    I mean he's always got a hand up around his face, he's creating little
>    scratches on his face and red markes around his nose and mouth.  This
>    is NOT thumb sucking.

Lyn,

Just so you know there is always someone worse off than you...

Our 5 year old has the lovely habit of sucking her thumb WHILE sticking her
index finger up her nostril and wiggling it around! It is especially bad when
she is tired or stressed. It is disgusting!! We are at wits end. Our pedi
keeps telling us it will cause no damage, but socially we could do without it. 

							Mark

    It's several months later and he's STILL doing it, but now what he
    does, especially in the car is to turn away as if peering out the
    window.  I've taken to a quick swift smack of the hand, and then
    telling him to sit on his hands for 5 minutes.  OK no lectures on
    hitting, I just think its totally disgusting and I guess I have no
    tolerance of the habit, then I ask him if the really thinks that I
    couldn't see him?
    
    And they tell me this is only the BEGINNING!!
    
    Lyn 

    Lyn - I've got an 8 year old who suddenly slowed this kind of behavior
    way down in the last few months.  I know we "kept on his back" for a
    long time, but I was noticing the other day, it's been a very long time
    since we've had to say anything.  If you keep working with him,
    hopefully it will become a habit you can stop now.  Just gentle
    reminders worked better with us.  No matter how angry I got, he seemed
    not to "hear" me.  What I finally resorted to was a stern look from
    across the room, just say his name once to get his attention (he'll
    know why), or even move his hand away from the area.
    
    Now we get to work on the "you all owe me a living" attitide!
    
    Enjoy the beach this weekend!
    
    -sandy
    
    

    I'm getting my wits end on this one.  It's all my own fault too....
    
    but...Angeline is used to having me lay down with her at night until
    she falls asleep.  This is all my own fault.  She never used to need
    this, but it got so that I missed her so much when she goes to stay
    at her father's, that I'd sleep with her the night before she left.
    Well, that led me to sleeping with her the night she came home too,
    because I was glad to have her back.  Well, then there's the nights
    I just wanted to hold her, and.... I just screwed her up big time.
    
    Now I want that time.  She doesn't fall asleep now for anywhere's near
    20 to 30, and sometimes 40 mins.  By the time she does, I have!   I
    have little time at night as it is, and I really would like to have a
    hour or so to myself.  Do housework, EXCERCISE (what I'd give to be
    able to lose some of this weight!), get some phone calls done,
    whatever...
    
    Well, she's just hysterical the minute I mention her laying down by
    herself.  I try laying a while then getting up.  She's out of that bed
    faster than I am!  She cries and cries.  She comes out into the living
    and just wails in front of me.  I try to let it go a little longer each
    night.  She winds up exhausted, I cave and lay down, she falls asleep
    in half the time, but I've still lost pretty close to an hour by now.
    
    And you can imagine how hard it is for me to get back up after she's
    fallen asleep, even if I do manage to stay awake.
    
    Letting her stay up longer doesn't help either.   Then we still wind
    up going to bed at the same time.    
    
    And ok, sometimes I just lay there and get frustrated thinking of the
    time I'm losing.  Then I feel guilty, because I shouldn't think she's
    "wasting" my time.  *sigh*  
    
    Help, please  :-)
    							cj *->
    
    p.s.
    
    Oh, she's just about to turn two (I still can't believe THAT).  She
    I wait until she has a firmer grasp of logic/reasoning, and then try
    to talk her out of this?  It's the only thing I can come up with.  But
    by then my house will be condemned and I'll be bigger than it anyways
    :-) :-) :-)
    

    I can sympathize. My sister is a single mom of a now nearly four
    year old daughter and she has the same problem. I'm not sure if Ferber's 
    book addresses this, but you might look there. (The book is called
    Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems, or something similar).
    All I can say is good luck, and if you feel strongly about this, 
    then do something soon. I know my sister wishes she did.
    Sue
    

    The topic on sleep habits, theirs and yours, is good.  We tried to
    Ferber-ize our now 4 year old daughter and it just did not work for us. 
    She does not like to be alone.  So we let her fall asleep with us and
    we put her in her bed while she is sleeping.  Then @ 5am shee crawls
    back into bed with us.  Sometimes my husband falls asleep on the couch
    and she crawls up with him and I have the whole bed to myself.
    
    We figure, its best for our family to let her sleep with us shen she
    wants and hopefully she will grow out of it.  We just can't handle the
    crying and arguing about it, so we go with the flow.
    
    Each household needs to find out what is best for their situation and
    do what feels right.  Good Luck!

    I had this problem with my oldest (I didn't repeat it on #2!).  I
    started with laying down and then remembering something I had to do. 
    I'd stay gone for a minute or two at the start before coming back and
    gradually increased it.  We finally worked to where she didn't like
    being upstairs alone, but it was okay if I was in my room.  That let me
    do things like read, fold clothes, etc.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Irene

    they really do grow out of it, some kids just take a bit longer.
    
    meg

    I don't know who or what the Ferber/Ferber-izing is, but IMHO, the
    women who wrote the "What to Expect" series have more common sense than
    most anyone out there.  
    
    Their "What to Expect the Toddler Years" deals with many questions
    about this topic, and they are quite firm on how to handle it.  I don't 
    go along with sleeping with them, and believe they have to learn that 
    "this is how we do it"....and the sooner, the better.  My grandaughter,
    who is 3 now, loves sleeping in her own bed with all her animal
    friends.  Even when she's staying with me, she chooses the twin bed in
    the room next to mine, rather than sleep with me.  She'll come in to me
    early in the morning.
    
    It usually only takes a few nights to get this under wraps.
    

    On the other hand, is it really so bad?                               
    
    I sit with both of my children for about 20 minutes each until they
    fall asleep (at separate times, so you know how MY nights go) or at
    least get really drowzy.  It's something I actually want to do and
    look forward to it.  The lullaby music, holding those little hands.
    Sometimes I DO curl up on the floor and fall asleep (and man, IS
    it hard to get up, do the dishes, the laundry etc. etc.)
    
    (Note that my children typically sleep soundly in their own beds 
    thereafter through the night, so I don't consider my special time 
    with them a problem interfering with their ability to get themselves 
    back to sleep, should they wake up in the middle of the night.)
    
    They grow up so fast.  Just consider savoring these moments if you can.
    Tara

    
    Until our daughter had to go to real school, she did not have a bed 
    time, ie. we got her ready (teeth brushed abd pj on) and she conked 
    out whenever she felt like it and we would bring her upstairs. A lot
    of times, she would fall asleep on someone's lap, on a cat, on the
    couch, at the dinner table, etc. As a result, we didn't have to deal 
    with bedtime woes. Once she was in kindergarten, she understood the
    importance of getting enough sleep and she didn't resist going to
    bed at a set time. We do let her read or watch I Dream of Ginnie
    in bed now. So, we never laid down with her, she just kept going 
    until she dropped and usually it didn't take long, leaving us a 
    lot of quiet time.
    
    
    Eva 

    My son is almost two and he has been fairly good at going to bed and
    falling asleep on his own..until about 2 months ago.  All the sudden 
    he would not go to bed. He screamed and screamed when we put him in the
    crib.
    
    We tried the, wait 5 mins, wait 10 mins routine etc.  But it didn't
    help at all.  We would end up holding him or laying down with him 
    until he fell asleep.  What finally worked was to put a night light 
    in his room.  It had never occured to me to do this before (maybe this
    is obvious to others).  But anyway after a little routine of reading
    books to him...we put the night light on and give him a book to take
    to bed.  He lays there and "reads" and talks to himself.  then off to
    sleep!
    
    My husband and I are totally amazed at how well this worked.  I guess
    he was scared (of course now I feel guilty about those nights I let
    him cry).
    
    This doesn't directly address the habit of you sleeping with her, but 
    perhaps some comfort items (night light, books, stuffed animals) would 
    help her handle going to bed without you.
    
    Also the idea of weaning her off it seems like a good idea, as in
    being in the room but not next to her. Then in the next room, etc.
    I have used this technique in the past. I would lay on the floor 
    next to his crib til I thought he was asleep...then I would slither
    on my belly out of the room, so he wouldn't detect me leaving :)
    
    Good luck!
    
    Tracey
    

    Most of these suggestions I've tried up to some point:
    
    .  she already has her nighttime buddies that have to come on in
     with us
    
    .  I've tried the running and doing something, but she just follows  
     me out.  She's too clever for that one!  It worked all of one night.
    
    .  I can try the sitting up and waiting
    
    On another note...  the note that asked, "is it so bad?".  I've used
    that with myself for a while.  Just thought of it as more *special*
    time with her.  But she takes up all my time and attention when she's
    awake.  I get no time to myself or my home.  As a single person in that
    household, this is disastrous.  Besides just wanting and hour so to
    myself before bed is a growing need.  And an occasional visitor has
    got to wait it out while I'm in laying down with her (rude, rude,
    uncomfortable, doesn't work), or she stays up until they leave.  That
    isn't always a great answer.    
    
    I have hit upon a temporary band-aid for now.  Actually, I don't know
    why it didn't come to me sooner.  Last summer I used to take her out 
    for walks every night after dark and she'd fall asleep in the carriage.
    I started that again a couple of nights ago, and it's working for now.
    
    It gives me some excersize as I live in a very hilly park.  Granted,
    I have to walk at least about 45 mins for it to be worth while, but
    I was spending that long just laying in the dark in her room thinking
    of all the things I could be getting done.  And I gives me some
    relaxing "think and unwind" time as we're walking.   I know last year
    we walked pretty close to an hour each night, so that will be helpful
    for now. 
    
    When we get back home, she awakens a bit while I carry her in and put
    her in her bed, but she rolls right over and goes back to sleep.  If
    we head out at eight, I'm home and have a little more time at 9:00.
    
    Now I was going to bed by nine before (I have to get up around 4:30 and
    need sleep), but I think I could get used to staying up until ten and
    getting some housework or more "bodywork" done.   We'll just have to
    see.
    
    I may be replacing one habit with another, but this is a better
    compromise for me.  At least until it's too cold!
    
    							cj *->

When Elise was about two, she would go to bed, but call us up
there over and over and over and over, etc.  She had a
different reason each time.  My favorite was "I want to touch
your eyebrows."

This drove me nuts because this was the hour I had to finish
all the chores before I could sit down for 5 minutes (and
promptly fall asleep, of course). 

The guy whose office was next to mine at the time (whose name
I can't remember to credit him) said it sounded like a control
issue to him.  Good call on his part, since 2 year olds are
infamous for control problems.

His suggest was to tell her I would check on her in 5 minutes,
and then stay for one minute.  If she called before the 5
minutes were up, I went to her door and told her how long until
I would be checkin on her.  I always went at 5 minutes, even
if she called as 4:45 minutes.  Then I would say I'd be back in
5 more minutes.  She'd be asleep the second visit.

Took only 3-4 days to wrestle control back.

Pat