Conference moira::parenting

    
    
    I use something my neighbor found from Amway.  It's called M-16.  It
    has DEET (I think it's 14%).  I think I heard under 20% DEET is ok to
    use on kids.  Anyone know?  I think DEET is also good at keeping the
    ticks away. 
    
    Anyway it works VERY well.  I should know since the black flies
    an sqitos swarm me!
    
    I think it's expensive, something like $8.00 per can.
    
    NF
    

    
    We have been using SKINTASTIC (sp) it's made by the same people that
    make off.  But it is only 7.5 deet.  And smells a bit better.  Our
    daughter is only 12 months old, and thats what we use on her.  It
    works very well.
    
    
    Lisa

    I used to use Skin-So-Soft on my kids, but stop it
    due to 2 reasons.  First, it is not very effective.  My
    kids still get bug bites.  I now use SKINTASTIC (as described in .4),
    it works a lot better.  Second, last year, my daycare center posted
    an article.  In the article, it said Skin-So-Soft can cause
    brain damage if use regularly.  
    
    Wendy

    I have never found Skin-so-Soft very effective against anything but
    black flies.  It works great for them.  
    						- Vick

>    it works a lot better.  Second, last year, my daycare center posted
>    an article.  In the article, it said Skin-So-Soft can cause
>    brain damage if use regularly.  

You can find all sorts of preposterous things posted in day care centers.
Unless I saw some information on the ingredient in question and the studies
that had established its risk, I would be inclined to call this phenomenally
improbable.

	-Neil

    
    
    I think that if you will read the label on most DEET containing
    products they will state the warnings against using DEET on small 
    children. The best compromise is to use it only on exposed skin and 
    on clothing. Also note that DEET can harm many synthetics, so be
    careful what type of clothing that you use it on. Personally, 
    I have a SLIGHT reaction to DEET so I follow the exposed skin/clothing
    routine myself. There are a few topics in the HIKING notesfile on 
    insect repellents which describe various solutions and claims. If I
    remember correctly, only DEET has been scientifically PROVEN
    to deter mosquitos.  While I have heared MANY testimonials about 
    Skin-So-Soft, I have not read any published studies proving that 
    it works (but some studies have indicated that it does NOT work). 
    I can tell you that in the Florida Everglades, nothing works for
    long (but that is another story). 
    
    Sorry to be so long winded. In short, put DEET on your children's
    CLOTHES and as little as possible on your children. Better to wear
    light long sleeves and sweat (a little more) than to slather DEET
    on the skin. 
    
    doug
     

    I recently purchased an insect repellent for children called
    "Skeedaddle".  It seems to work quite well with my 2 year old, and
    since it was designed for children I feel a little better about it.
    It lasts for 4 hours, according to the label. David gets giant spots
    from black fly bites, and some have gotten infected. I needed
    something for those areas you can't cover, like the back of the neck,
    face, and behind the ears.  I purchased it in CVS, and it comes in
    single application packets so it's quite handy for traveling.
    Sarah

    The article mentioned last year on Skin-so-Soft causing brain damage
    also made the rounds here in Digital on the network. I believe there
    was later a retraction from the author, stating error in coming to that
    conclusion.
    
    Family Circle has an article this month on fleas/tick/mosquitos and
    various comments are offered. The article does mention the general
    recommendation that DEET products should not be used on children under
    2.
    
    We typically spray the back of Ryan (3+)'s jersey, since the bugs
    typically bite the back of the neck more than anywhere else. We also
    tend to go inside when they get bad after dinner.
    
    

    Has anyone had good luck with an environmental repellant like
    citronella candles?  They are inexpensive, and if they work even
    partially without any nasty side effects or odor, they may be
    worhwhile.
    
    L

    I used Naturapel (SP??) Memorial Day weekend and thought it worked 
    pretty good there were alot of black flies and mosquitoes.  I thought
    you had to apply it more often than say OFF...but i liked the feel and 
    smell of it alot better!

    We use the citronella candles on our deck with pretty good
    results.  You need three or four of them for an area about 10 feet
    on a side.  They do have some smell of their own, but I find it
    quite pleasant.  They're not 100%, especially if you have a lot of
    mosquitos, but on an average evening they're enough to keep it
    pleasant. 
    
    --bonnie

One other thing you can do with citronella is GROW a citronella plant then
when you want repellant ... break off a few leaves ... wipe them on the
sensitive areas and voila ... instant protection.

Weird leaves though ... if you pick and leave them then in under 6 hours,
they'll turn black and dry!

Stuart

> One other thing you can do with citronella is GROW a citronella plant then
>when you want repellant ... break off a few leaves ... wipe them on the
>sensitive areas and voila ... instant protection.

They will also keep insects away in an approximate 10-foot radius around
the tree, according to a recent article I read.  Plant one at each end
of your deck or patio.

Frank

    Is citronella a tree or a shrub?  How large does it grow?  What are its
    climate restrictions?  Shade?  Sun?  Is it attractive?

    And where do I buy some???
    
    --bonnei

The citronella I saw was a medium height plant that I first thought was
a clump of mint.  As far as I know it really doesn't grow to a tree, just
a low bushy clump of green!

It was in full sun and was bought at a nursery.  It must be relatively hardy
for it has survived two Ottawa winters.

Stuart

    
    Re: .1, The REAL name is d-15 (not M-16).

    Does anyone have any suggestions for what kind of insect repellent to
    use for a baby?  My daughter is 9 1/2 months old and we are going on 
    vacation soon.  I'd like to be able to put something on her so she
    doesn't end up getting attacked by mosquitos but don't know what is
    good for a baby. 
                 
    Thanks,
    Lisa Cozzens  

    I have found Skin So Soft from Avon to work best for the little ones
    as well as adults.  It has no harmful chemicals in it, smells good,
    and is very effective in keeping the mosquitos away.
    
    Regards,
    
    Betty

    So far this year we have had great luck with OFF SKINTASTIC. You know,
    the comercial goes "I got it on?" It has no scent so you can't tell you
    have it on. Danielle hasn't been bit once yet.
    
    
    Sandy

Yep, its a bad year for bugs.

This month's consumer reports has the ratings. I seem to remember them
recommending *NOT* using it on any child under 12 months.  If you must
use it spray it on their clothes and let it dry. Be sure to wash it off
ASAP.

Rochelle

    I vote for Avon's Skin-so-soft as well. However, S-O-S does not repel
    the "die-hard" insects. I asked Neel's (14 months) pedi since Neel gets
    bitten a lot. She suggested Skidaddel (sp?). When I gave a bottle of
    that to Neel's daycare they called the health department to check it
    out since it was not in there list of repellants that they could use
    without a doctor's note. The health dept. said that the reason why
    Skidaddel and some others are advertised as repellant for children is
    that the content on DEET is very small compared to that in repellants
    used by adults. 
    
    We were asked to apply the repellant on areas like the neck, cuffs of
    pant legs, etc and on the clothes if possible. You have to watch for
    kids rubbing the stuff into their eyes or eating it especially if you
    put it on their arms and teething kids go for anything that helps
    massage their gums. I have used both Skintastic and Skidaddel on Neel
    since he was 4 months old. 
    
    Shaila

    
    I can't vouch for the effectiveness of the following, but plan
    to try it out later this summer on our trip to New England...
    
    The Right Start Catalog has a lady-bug shaped "insect repeller".
    It takes some kind of small battery, and repels insects by emitting
    a low hum (which you could not hear).  They show it clipped on to a
    stroller, next to the child.  I've heard there are similar devices
    available in sporting goods stores etc.  Does anyone know if these
    work?  Do they chew up batteries?  Seems like a good alternative to
    chemicals...
    
    Lynn
    

    
    	Emily's pedi also recommended either Skintastic or skedaddle
    	as safe insect repellants.  (Emily's 13 months)
    
    	Karen
    

    I agree that Skintastic is great!!  But make sure you rub a little on
    the clothes.  Natasha (23 months) was out in a very heavy bug area for
    a couple hours and she only got 2 bites which went right thru her
    clothes and light sweater.......real man eater bugs!!  
    
    In normal bug areas a few dabs here and there seem to keep the bugs 
    away.
    
    I'm thinking of trying the Skintastic spray for her clothes and hair
    (she doesn't have much hair)
    
    I like Skin-So-Soft, but it only works on me....my husband (sometime
    the human pest strip) and my daughter only get bug protection in low
    bug areas.  I guess they're just sweeter ;-)
    

The mosquitos still liked me.

I

    We use Skintastic - or I should say my family does.  The bugs do not
    bother/bit me.  I spent the weekend camping in the White Mountains and
    have one bite!  My 6 yr old gets chewed alive and my 8 yr old must have
    a mixture of blood - very few will bite him.  But then, he's usually
    with his brother so they probably are too full when they notice him!!
    
    -sandy
    

    
    Maybe this is a myth, but I've heard that vanilla is a good bug
    repellant.
    
    Of course, here in the rocky mountains, bugs are not usually a problem
    :-)
    Jamd

	I generally prefer to use something on the gentle side like
     Avon's Skin-So-Soft or BeautiControl's No-Sting Body Oil (which 
     is my favorite).  They both contain Jasmine which is known to
     repel certain insects.  However, when the mosquitos get really
     bad we usually have to use something heavier.

     -Lisa

   Now this is something that I didn't know... jasmine as a repellant,
   eh?  Now... does that mean that you could use a jasmine extract (like
   the stuff used for room incense) instead of these other products?
   Would it be more effective as an extract (eg, more concentrated since
   its not mixed with all that other stuff)?  Would it be too expensive -
   I don't know what that stuff costs...
   
   Just wondering,
   
   - Tom

    I've always just sprayed Deep Woods Off onto the kids clothes, and the
    neck/back of the head.  That seems to be enough to keep them away, and
    doesn't leave us with the dilemma of bug-spray on their skin.  Plus the
    kids HATE the smell of it....
    
    Without it, they'd both be carried away by the mosquitoes, so I'd have
    to say it works VERY well.

    
    	I heard recently that apple cider vinegar is supposed to work as an
    insect repellant.
    
    	I'll be trying this this weekend and will let you know.
    
    				Wendy

    
    from a different perspective.... can anyone recommend some bug killers
    that aren't toxic.
    
    We have an infestation of cinch bugs this summer... critters about 3/4"
    long with what looks like a pair of tongs at one end.  They're
    everywhere... and especially seem to like hiding inside plastic things
    - like nearly all  our toys.
    
    I don't want to start spraying nasty chemical things around -
    particularly on the toys... any ideas?
    
    Jamd

    are you sure they're cinch bugs and not earwigs ?
    
    If they are earwigs, there isn't a lot you can do apart from provide
    baited traps for them to drown in been and that kind of thing.  They
    like cool dark places, so a common ploy is small lengths of garden
    hose that they crawl into and then you tip the pipes out daily into
    something like beer etc which will drown em.
    
    They are killed by things like ant killers ... but usually ant killers
    are very toxic to humans and have a long residual life.
    
    Stuart

    Our least favourite bug.
    My parents have waged non-chemical war with this pest - 
    They have half buried beer bottles (on their sides) in the garden
    so that the lip is flush with the ground. They like the smell of the 
    small puddle of beer (use "Skunked" beer - its easier on the budget!) 
    and crawl in, slip over the rim and drown. Must be cleaned out every
    so often.
    Another friend swears by diatomatious (sp?) earth, or powdered egg
    shell, which they are supposedly not fond of, since it cuts them up
    to crawl over. You can use this as a barrier around your house if 
    they seem to be coming in. 
    
    Not only do they bite, but they're Ugly!
    
    Monica a Bug-Hater
    

	I've noticed a lot of earwigs lately, too!  Is there some
	reason they're more abundant this summer (I'm in Central Mass)?

	I think I'll try putting out Ant traps, as I've found them in
	too many different places to try the other suggestions (ie bathroom,
	kitchen, laundry room).
	
	Karen

    Lyn, 
    I hate to say this ( cause I am really a BIG bug-hater) but 
    they could possibly be IN the walls. I rented a house with some room
    mates one year, and we had those big black ants during that time
    (more in the spring than any other time) Apparently they were due
    to the fact the owners hadn't redone the roof in sometime and there
    was some woodrot in some parts of the house. 
    
    (don't take my word for it though!)
    
    Monica

    Please continue any discussion of ridding your house of bugs in the
    HOME_WORK notes file or elsewhere.  It's appropriate for the PARENTING
    discussion to focus on the effect of bugs and bug sprays on children.
    
    Laura
    co-mod

    
    OK, no more about bug....
    
    
    
    
    But the beer idea worked for earwigs!  And in the great taste test,
    Coors is holding steady with Molson's
    
    Jamd
    :-)

    
    Another update:
    
    	I tried the cider vinegar and it *appeared* to work. Seems like a
    nice alternative if you don't mind going around smelling like an Easter
    Egg.
    
    				Wendy

I might give some of these a try.  Last week I sprayed the house with the normal
toxic stuff and later that day *all* my joints started aching.  After a day I
called the doctor and he took a blood sample for Lymes disease (which came back
negative) and put me on 800mg Motrin 3 times/day.

The aching went away after 4-5 days (the last to stop was my wrists and
fingers), but we still don't definitely know what the cause was.  The bug spray
is the most likely culprit in my mind.

If this is how humans can react, it must really do a number on the bugs!

Dave

For the last couple years, I have contracted a form of influenza that
does the mega aches on me ... so it may NOT be bug spray after all !
Although I once used ant spray and felt quite ill for the rest of the
day.

Stuart

    I wonder if there is any update on products these days.
    
    I've gotten the SKIN-SO-SOFT with the sunscreen and mosquito
    and tic formula.  It doesn't seem to be working on the bugs,
    although great in the sun.
    
    I tried a spray Skintastic on myself a couple of weeks ago and
    it didn't do a thing for me.  I did not try that on Angeline 
    because she has/had a "mystery" rash from a cause other than
    the lotion.  (I found out yesterday it's eczema *sigh*).
    
    Most people in here seem to be recommending the Skintastic and
    Skeedadle.  Does that all still stand true?
    
    Are you putting this stuff on baby faces?  Of course, that is
    where her eczema seems to be concentrated so I'd hesitate to
    put anything on it at this point, but in general - do you put
    it on their face?
    
    						cj *->
    

    one thing that seems to work for me is a soap called "Vetiver" (i think
    i have it spelled right) from Crabtree & Evelyn ( or Evelyn & Crabtree
    could never get that right).
    
    my husband and i shower with it before we go out and do yard work.
    it may smell strong out of the box but it's got a light smell after the
    shower.  they do make a Vetiver cologne but the soap works for us. 
    it's a bit expensive at $4 a bar of soap but we only use when we need
    it.
    
    jo

   I just picked up something the other day that may be useful... its
   called "Naturapel" or something like that.  Its put out by the Tender
   Corp, from Littleton NH - I guess its the same folks who make the
   'afterbite' products that work on bug bites.
   
   Its got Aloe in it, and its Citronella based.  It smells like those
   bug candles or the citronella plants that are available.  I don't know
   how it works yet, but it should be fine.
   
   re: faces - 
   
   I don't usually apply bug repellant to faces, not even on my own.
   When I need serious coverage, I spray a bandana and use it for a
   headband - that usually protects my face, the back of my neck and
   around my ears;  all of which seem to be very interesting for the
   critters.
   
   Even with Skin-So-Soft I'd probably try to stick with applying it to
   headbands, hats, collars, etc instead of faces, but that's my own
   preference.
   
   fwiw,
   
   - Tom

    
    CJ,
    
    	When my daughter was little, I used to get this natural
    insect repellent from the health food stores. I forgot the
    name, but it had Vit B and citronella in it, smells like 
    lemon + vitamin. It worked for one hour of so per application.
    Now we all use Skeeadle for kids (sp?), it works good.
    
    
    Eva

    I have the Naturepel and it is so so.  It works ok for mosquitos which
    are the biggest problem for my rural wet town.  It is not advertised to
    work for ticks. I discovered last week on the Cape that it does nothing 
    for gnats.  I bought some other natural stuff at a health food store which
    day care uses each day on my son - it work pretty well.
    
    Kathy

    Hey CJ,
           Mark and I use Skintastic FOR CHILDREN....Micaylah's dr. gave us
    about 20 packets of it for our upcoming camping trip. We are going to
    the mountains for 9 days, her first camping trip (7 months) ....we have
    used it a few times already and it works fine but the mountains are the
    ultimate test!!! I don't ut it on her face but I do put it on her ears,
    neck and the circumferance (the whole border of her face) she has been
    successful in fighting the bugs off.......   Mary .....