Conference moira::parenting

    It might be the type of veggies that you are feeding her. Marisa had a 
    hard time with frozen and fresh veggies. I think they were hard for
    her to chew. Anway, my babysitter suggested canned veggies and we had
    success. A note of caution: I rinsed the veggies off first to try and
    lessen the sodium content. Also, Marisa does not like her veggies hot.
    She likes them room temperature like her fruit.
    
    Try not to make eating a big issue. I have found that Marisa goes in
    streaks. For a week she may eat only Rice Krispies, the next week
    she may be on a carrot binge. You never know.
    
    Donna

    My daughter eats whatever she can pick up and put in her own mouth.
    She's been getting lots of chopped tomatoes and some chopped 3 bean
    salad.
    
    Also, she eats Progresso Minestrone soup. There may be more salt than
    she needs but overall the ingredients are good.
    
    I've also found I don't need to heat the jarred variety. She's eaten
    tuna with jarred carrots and cold string beans between bites of
    whatever she has in her hands.
    
    So long as she is getting fruit, juice, and enough fiber, I wouldn't
    worry about malnutrition...but I do understand your concern re: good
    eating habits.
                  

    My first child was a picky eater (the second is a fine eater).  I used
    to put ground up veggies into other stuff...meatballs, meatloaf,
    sauces.  It kept my food processor busy.
    
    I talked with a nutritionist once who said "hiding" the veggies in the
    above manner was not teaching my child to enjoy veggies.  While the
    nutritionist had a point, I felt getting veggies into my daughter took
    precedence over "food learning". 
    
    As it turns out, she got less picky as she grew older.  
    
    LZP
    

    Jackie will be 2 in two weeks, and right now, only eats corn and
    sometimes tomatoes as veggies.  As a baby, she ate everything.. squash,
    peas (strained and frozen), spinach, you name it.  Now, forget it, and
    the corn has to be frozen, not canned.  For awhile I was worried about
    this, but she eats a lot of fresh fruit (oranges, bananas, grapes, or
    whatever) that I figure she's getting her vitamins that way.  She also
    likes raisens which have some vitamin content and satisfy her sweet
    tooth.  I asked the doctor about this and his only concern was that
    after eating raisens we made sure she brushed her teeth because the
    raisens stick to them (this is not always an easy task, though).
    

    The vitamins in fruits and vegetables vary.  So don't assume that your
    child is getting the same nutrition (or even close) from fruits that
    they would from vegetables.  And go one further, the nutrition varies
    widely from one fruit or vegetable to another.
    
    All that considered, I believe it a fruitless (haha) waste of effort to
    worry about a child not eating one thing or another.  All the experts
    say it evens out as long as they are consistently offered a healthy
    selection without being forced.
    
    My What_to_Expect_the-First_Year book recommends a daily diet with
    various categories of vegetables.  I think that's very nice if your
    baby is still eating strained foods, but FAT CHANCE with a picky
    toddler.  I offer.  She rejects.  I refuse to worry about it.
    
    For insurance, I recommend giving your child a daily multivitamin.  For
    my toddler, I bought a liquid multivitamin at the health food store. 
    It is in a sugar-free base but has a naturally sweet flavor.  I give
    her a teaspoon after dinner, which she considers a sort of dessert.
    
    I AM concerned about her overall fiber intake.  The usual daycare diet
    of white bread, cheese, meat, canned vegs and fruit just doesn't cut
    it.  I only serve whole grain bread at home.  We eat vegetables and
    fruit and offer everything to her, although she will only eat fruit.
    Fruits like oranges do have a lot of fiber.  She gets whole-grain
    breakfast cereal, too.
    
    Laura

    Michael, age 2.4, will not eat any vegetable except green peas, and
    very few of those.  When he was younger, he *loved* veggies, even
    better than fruit.  He's just turned into a typical 2-year-old!
    
    Dr. Berry Brazelton says a toddler needs four things each day, and only
    these four:
    
    An ounce of orange juice,
    a pint of milk,
    a little meat, and
    a multivitamin to cover the veggies.
    
    He says to forget worrying about what your child eats (assuming you
    offer a variety of nutritional choices every day), and spend your time
    worrying about other development issues that are far more important.
    
    Steve

    There is an article in this months Parents magazine on this topic.  It 
    basically confirms what most noters have been saying:  "don't worry - your 
    child will eat what he/she needs".

    There was one point the atricle made that I found very interesting.  It
    said that using desert as a reward, or withholding desert as a punishment
    was a bad thing to do.  For example, if your child asks for a cookie and
    you say "No, you can't have acookie until you finish your peas", you are
    reinforcing the idea that a cookie is more desirable than peas.

    I am not sure I like the idea of letting my daughter eat cookies before
    her peas - but I can certainly see some merrit to the argument this article
    put forth.

    Americans have developed the habit of having dessert after meals,
    especially dinner.  I was raised expecting that cookie or whatever. 
    This is not so common in other countries which may serve fresh fruit
    after a meal, but not always.  Pastries and sweets are served to
    visitors or on special occasions.
    
    Having a difficult time as it is with overeating and overweight, my
    husband and I do not normally eat dessert after dinner.  We sometimes
    have fresh fruit, but only have cake when there's company on the
    weekend or holiday.  Even then, we often take a break between dinner
    and dessert, to play and talk, even go for a walk outside.
    
    I think this is a good habit.  My daughter is learning that when she's
    done with her dinner, that's it until bedtime.  At most she will get a
    cup of warm milk if more than an hour elapses.  
    
    She knows that dinner is done when she pours her leftover bits into the
    dog's bowl.  He eats last!
    
    I give her fruit, crackers (she calls them cookies) and cheese as a
    snack.  We eat crackers while we're making dinner to stave off hunger. 
    I often give her fruit after she eats the rest of her breakfast, but I
    never give it as a reward, and not every day.  That way she can't count
    on it and skip her cereal, toast, or eggs.  She may get cookies after
    lunch at daycare, but I certainly won't do that at home.  

    
    Try feeding your child some veggies FIRST.  I fix Sophie an appetizer
    of greenbeans or 'icy peas'.    She prefers her veggies at room tmp or
    cold, so it's easy to do while I'm finishing up with dinner preps.  
    helps tide her over till we can allsit down, and helps be sure she's
    getting some veggie vitamnis.
    
    Jamd
    

    Can I brag here???? Please huh please???
    
    AJ has always been a veggie freak, to the point that one of his first
    addictions was broccoli of all things, then we progressed to cream of
    broccoli soup. So far so good, he has actually never refused to eat any
    type of veggie.  I can only hope it stays that way.  When we go to
    special occations I'm the one in the sweets, he's the one in the veggie
    tray.  I once gave him a choice between Oreo cookies and a graham
    cracker, he chose the graham cracker!
    
    One of his special nights out is Abdow's soup and salad bar.  Of course
    even better is that kids 5 and under eat FREE when the parents "do" the
    salad bar.  What can I say, my kid's a cheap date!!
    
    On something sort of related, I have a friend who is raising her two
    children as vegitarians.  Neither she nor her husband eat meat as well.
    I just sort of wonder to myself are they getting enough protein? 
    EVerytime I see her boy, who is 4ish he looks so pale and frail.  She
    just gave birth about 6 months ago to a girl and is breastfeeding at
    this point, but she too looks very small and pale.  The mother is a
    nurse, with a degree so I assume her knowledge of nutrition is as good
    if not better than most, but I still have concerns for the children.
    I sort of wonder what happens to kids raised in this environment
    without meat.  Is it sort of like witholding sweets, to the point that
    when they are old enough to make their own choices they might go out
    and binge and/or become addicted to the deprived food?  (not flaming,
    nor opinionating, just really curious since I know there are vegitarian
    noters amongst us)
    
    Lyn

    Just curious, if the kids won't eat the veggies as veggies.  Would it
    work at all to serve them in things like beef stew or chicken
    veggie-noodle casseroles or I've incorporated grated carrots and bean
    sprouts into american chop suey.
    
    I know it's not a great idea to "hide" veggies, but if it works why
    not?
    
    Lyn

Lyn,

Sensible vegetarians will have taken the trouble to have learned where the
risks and potential deficiencies in a vegetarian diet are, and how to avoid
them.  Protein in a vegetarian diet really is not an issue, if you use a
little common sense and learn a little about nutrition.  (If you tried to
become vegetarian by just eliminating the meat from an ordinary non-vegetarian
diet, I suppose it would be easy to have problems.)

As for

>    I sort of wonder what happens to kids raised in this environment
>    without meat.  Is it sort of like witholding sweets, to the point that
>    when they are old enough to make their own choices they might go out
>    and binge and/or become addicted to the deprived food?  

I think it has a lot to do with your attitude.  If you regard vegetarianism
as "being deprived of meat", then that will undoubtedly be how your children
see it, too.  In our case, meat simply has nothing to do with our diet, and
Elspeth has absolutely no desire for it.  (The problem is that in a restaurant,
Lynne and I can fall back to meat if there isn't anything else worth eating,
but Elspeth won't -- she doesn't like meat, and won't eat it.)

After all, almost any family's diet excludes *something*, simply by default.
Few of us eat much Ethiopian cuisine; but we don't worry about whether our 
children are going to become addicted to Ethiopian food when they get old
enough to have a choice.

	-Neil

    Although we will not be raising Spencer as a vegetarian (I was a
    vegetarian for 6 years until I met Marc), we will be limiting the meat
    in his diet. Won't get any until he is at least a year older (probably
    later at the rate he is going) and he certainly not have meat everyday.

    	Why? Personal choice here. I'd like to go back to no meat but you
    have to be so careful with planning the meals that I'd rather use some
    meat and then supplement with additional proteins. The other thing is
    that I would *personally* not chance being pregnant and not eating some
    meat. In fact, some of my cravings were meat related as I plan to be
    pregnant again (someday) it looks like meat is in our diets for a while
    longer.

    	As far as protein and kids, it's easy to get them to eat it and
    it's easy to get the proper amount each day. Spencer still drinks
    *some* soy formula, we've started adding yogurt to his diet and lately
    I've been adding peanut butter to his pured vegetables and have plans
    to add tahini and hummus. His diet which consists of grains, fruit,
    vegetables, yogurt, and soy formula, is such a healthy diet that I'd
    like to keep him on it as long as possible (maybe until he's 21?)

    			Wendy

    	

We have friends who are strict vegetarians -- they eat no animal products at
all except honey and the very occasional egg (well, OK, she had chicken
*once* when she was pregnant).  They had a 10-pound baby who has continued
to grow apace.  His size is off the charts for his age.