Conference moira::parenting

    I also just had a baby, and the thought of staying home with my two
    children has crossed my mind, but for now, I'll keep working.  Because
    of the bad state that the economy is in, and the constant threat of
    layoffs at my husband's place of employment, I think it's best that we
    both have jobs now.  That way, if one of us gets layed off, at least we
    will still have one income.  Finding jobs these days is tough...
    
    Good luck with your decision.
    
    - Sheryl

   re: .0    Well, you don't come right out and say it, but the
   implication is that you have already looked at it and you could
   handle the drop in income if you stayed home.   I can't speak from
   personal experience - my wife has been home full time ever since we
   started having kids, and had *never* indicated that she *ever*
   wants to go back to work for any reason (she really likes being a
   full time mom).   But... there are really lots of opportunities out
   there for "alternative" income.  That is, something that can make
   you money that doesn't count on the 9-5 job scene.  I've looked
   into some of this myself - if you want, contact me off-line
   (ROYALT::PEACOCK) and maybe we can talk about the pro's and con's
   of some of these ideas.
   
   Good luck!
   
   - Tom

    You are fortunate to be able to afford not to work.  Sigh, , ,
    
    I am here addressing your question about being able to return to work. 
    I think your ability to use your current skills and knowledge depends
    greatly upon what you do.
    
    If you work in a technology that rapidly evolves, such as networking,
    your knowledge will be out of date in about a year, I estimate.  If
    your technology is relatively stable, you have more time, although
    stable technologies tend to become antiquated eventually.  And in
    stable technologies, there are more educated candidates for an employer
    to hire, so you'd have more competition.
    
    You can keep up somewhat by reading journals, but it won't replace work
    experience.  Some people go back to school for a refresher after a
    hiatus in their work.  That may be an option.  Maybe you could take 1
    or 2 courses per semester toward a masters degree.
    
    If your work doesn't depend heavily on technological knowledge, you
    won't have such a problem in this area.
    
    Next question.  What tools do you use?  By that I mean text editors,
    compilers, etc.  Apply the same analysis as above.  This is a somewhat
    separate question from knowledge per se.
    
    Finally, what skills do you have aside from knowledge or tools?  By
    this I mean teaching, writing, coding, secretarial, supervisory,
    project management, sales etc.  These skills, like riding a bicycle, you
    don't forget.  And they don't become dated in a short time frame of a
    few years.  If you return to work, this will be your strong suit.  Even
    if you don't maintain technological currency, try to continue
    developing aspects of such work skills.  
    
    I think the most important aspect to "time out" is maintaining your
    self-confidence.  If you feel you can do this, then you should be able
    to overcome any obstacles in returning to work. 
    
    Do take into account your overall financial picture, including planning
    for higher education and for retirement.  Unless you launch into a new
    career direction, such as going into sales, you will probably return to
    work at the same pay you left.  That's not so great when you consider
    both inflation and the raises you might have gotten if you had
    continued.  If you can afford this hit, or can overcome it by making a
    career change, I would think twice about taking the time off.  If your
    return to work at improved pay requires graduate education which you
    wouldn't otherwise need, factor in that cost.  If you need the eduction
    anyway, will your employer pay for it?
    
    If you can reduce your cashflow requirements, such as by refinancing
    your mortgage at a lower rate, that should help.
    
    Plenty to think about.
    
    Good luck!

    One of my best friends just re-entered the work force, after taking 7
    years off to raise her kids.  She got hired back at the same company,
    in the same type of job.  She is a technical writer.  (This is in
    Binghamton, NY, which has few technical writing opportunities.)
    
    I'm sure that she got rehired easily because she is a very good worker. 
    (We worked together in 1981-82.)  She also kept in contact with her
    former co-workers and knew when jobs were available.  She has picked up
    the technical skills easily.  
    
    Her problems are more of adjustment type issues right now.  Her kids go
    to parochial school and stay there in an after-school program that is
    reasonably priced and they love.  But she is having trouble trying to
    fit everything into her schedule and is feeling the stress quite a bit.
    
    Money was very tight for them while she was out.  Their marriage had a
    lot of problems...when you've contributed financially, and then aren't,
    that can lead to control issues.
    
    To get her "own" money, she waitressed for a catering company.  That
    way she was only gone during the evenings and weekends.  In the last
    two years, she served as a computer assistant at her kid's school.  She
    would load software and set things up, and then even key-entered
    information.  Not exactly highly technical, but it paid for one child's
    tuition, and kept her involved at their school.
    
    While she was working part time, she was very involved.  Went to all
    soccer games, field trips, and so on.  Did meals on wheels one day a
    week.  She hasn't gone to many soccer games this year, because she
    needs to do things at home. (And of course, stopped meals on wheels.)
    
    If you do decide to stay at home, I'd advise you to join a mother's
    club or something like that.  One of the problems that my friend faced
    was isolationism and feeling unvalued for her stay-at-home Mom status.
    
    I wish you well in your decision.
    
    judy

    
    A friend of mine stayed home but worked nights (6-10) after her husband
    got home. It is a little rough but it saved on daycare.
    
    Another friend took in 2 children to watch (off the books)at 
    about $300 week for both.
    
    Good luck!
    

    
    My wife left her career in finance to stay home with our son. She was
    very happy at work with both the people and the job. It came down to
    what was the highest priority in our lives at the time.
    
    I can't begin to tell you what an adjustment it was to lose 1/3 of the
    family income. Talk about major rearrangement in lifestyle. We went
    from comfortable to watching every dollar. Martha waitresses a few
    nights during the week which helps bring in a little extra cash. It's
    still nowhere near what we had before she left. One of the major draw-
    backs is we can't refinance our mortgage since we won't qualify
    without her old salary.
    
    Even so, I'm glad she did it. With the sacrifice came many rewards.
    Martha is a certified teacher who wants to get back into teaching once
    Patrick reaches school age. She's the kind of woman who needs to have
    an income she can call her own. The current situation is fine for now 
    but she wants to get back to work in the future.
    
    Good luck with your decision
    
    Chris
     

    My wife left Digital a year ago (through TFSO) and has been temping
    since. We're expecting our first child Christmas day. We've carefully 
    orchestrated this plan for over 5 years now and everything's turning 
    out exactly as we'd hoped. She will be staying home with the baby 
    (and future babies, too!) This will definitely be an adjustment to our 
    style of living, but we feel this is the best arrangement for Mom, Dad,
    and baby. In fact, my wife has always said she wouldn't have kids 
    unless we could afford for her to stay home -- and I support that 
    position 100%. Now if we could only figure out how I could stay home, 
    too..........
    
    Mike
    

    I left Digital when my older daughter was 2 1/2 and my younger daughter
    7 mos.  I was worried losing ground and about getting back into work
    when I was ready.  BUT I was miserable in the job I had at the time for 
    several reasons.  I'm VERY glad I did it.
    
    Although we COULD swing in on one good income, we weren't really
    disciplined and didn't cut back as much as we should.  So...after 15
    months, I contacted a contract agency and immediately found a contract
    (writing) job at Digital.  It was supposed to be for three weeks; it
    has now been 18 months.  Now I work for a great boss and do work I
    enjoy.  
    
    Feel free to contact me with any questions.  Good luck on your
    decision.
    
    -Tracy
     

    When it came time in my life to finally decide if I was going to work
    or not while raising children, the strongest argument for me was the
    fact that I loved my job.  If I hated my job at the time that I was
    making this decision I am still convinced that I would be a stay at
    home mother to this day.  Job satisfaction is important and if you
    don't have it you will be miserable staying there and thinking of
    your children away from you.
    
    Also - from discussion I have had with other mothers, decide while
    you are pregnant.  If you start back to work after the baby is born,
    chances are that you will continue working (of course, once you get
    through the initial adjustment).  Those that stay at home initially,
    then start back to work say a year down the road have a tremendous
    amount of adjustment since they are "used to" going at their own 
    pace as far as getting out the door, getting chores done, etc.
    
    From your note, sounds like economics isn't a part of your decision.
    There are many articles about mothers dropping out of the workforce
    and then re-entering.  Depends on your skills as other notes mentioned.
    
    Good luck in your decision! 

    All I can relate is my experience...when I was 7 months pregnant
    w/Chelsea (now 2.3 yrs old), I was laid off as a Marketing Mgr w/Wang. 
    I was actually thrilled about it...got a good package and everything. 
    The financial drop thought has taken a long time to get used to..of you
    every do get used to it.  I stayed home full time for about a year, and
    have been working part time for about the last year or so.  Baby number
    two is due in July, so I will stop working again for some time
    (indeterminate).
    
    Being home full time, just like working outside the home full time, is
    different for everyone, and the grass is sometimes greener on the other
    side.  After working in a "professional" field for nearly 12 years,
    being home w/an infant was a shock.  Of course, it's a shock even if
    youre going back to work..  :)   But there were many endless
    days...however, there were also many more days when I felt so blessed
    to be able to stay home w/Chelsea.  And nowthat she is older, we can do
    a log more than you can w/an infant...library, play groups where the
    kids actually play together, park now that the weather is nicer, even
    museums.  Now here comes an infant again, so we'll see what we're able
    to do...
    
    I also was anot happy with my job or company at the time, so it was
    actually a relief to not have to go to work.    My suggestions would be
    to really lay out the financials -- what can you cut back on, etc. 
    Financial stress can make your decision regretful in hindsight, so make
    sure you are willing/able to make the necessary sacrifices.   Can you
    perhaps take a short term leave (month/two) to see how you feel being
    home with them all the time?  (I know this is improbable, but you never
    know...)  What kinds of things are there for you to do near where you
    live?  Will you be able to get out to go places?  Do you have resources
    for a play group / support group for babysitting trade offs?  Many
    hospitals / mother's clubs have these kinds of activities..  You don't
    need every day planned, but if you have some routines/support/friends
    it will make ALL THE DIFFERENCE in how you enjoy your life w/the little
    ones.
    
    I guess in closing, I have loved my time at home .... and plan to enjoy
    more of it when baby number two makes his appearance in July.  It is
    HARD WORK, stressful, can be intellectually a dud (how many times can
    you watch Sesame Street), but is also emotionally gratifying when you
    start to see the fruits of your hard work (kids learning from you etc.) 
    But this is different for everyone, so you really have to list it out
    for yourself and be honest w/yourself.  Do you just want to do this
    because you hate your current job?  Or because you really want to stay
    home with your kids?  Think long and hard and plan it out, and you will
    be comfortable with your decision.
    
    Sorry for any rambling , these are just my thoughts on this topic...

    I forgot to sign my name to my previous note...sorry!
    
    A couple more thoughts:  I was a Welcome Wagon rep for a while (don't
    laugh..I basically sold advertising services to small businesses..) 
    Was a dud financially but got me out of the house when I was starting
    to go bonkers..  Tried Avon...a dud financially; tried Tupperware...you
    can actually make a decent amount of money at Tupperware on a part time
    basis, your own time, etc.  (And ps - if you had ever asked me if I
    would ever be an Avon lady, I would have laughed at you..  :)  or hold
    Tupperware parties!  But you asked for ideas....  
    
    The best think I have done, as a previous noter mentioned, was contact
    a contract agency.  I have been working part time as a Marketing writer
    for Digital, on a contract basis, for several months now.  Work my own
    hours to a degree (come in for meetings etc), work from home a lot, if
    Chelsea is sick, we don't panic.. I have always been able to easily
    adjust my schedule, I have a REAL job on an intellectual basis, the pay
    is good, etc.  However, my contract is just about over, and while
    timing is good (baby is due in July), it is disconcerting to know they
    can let you go any time.  But the benefits have FAR outweighed the
    negatives and I plan to hopefully go back to this kind of work, part
    time, in a few months/a year (whatever life turns out to be w/a two
    year old an an infant  :).  Chelsea has loved part time daycare/school
    and it's been great for me, and the money has helped too.
    
    Paula

This reply is being entered for a member of our community who wishes
to remain anonymous.

     Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

**********************************************************

This is quite timely - I have been thinking a lot about this recently.

<SET_MODE_EMOTIONAL>

My kids are 4 and 2. I like my work and am good at it, but it is very
demanding, stressful and the pace is crazy. Also, I tend to be a 
perfectionist, so I am pretty hard on myself.  I have juggled for four years
and am tired of it. Both my kids are past the stage where the significant
milestones are very visible (crawling, sitting, walking, talking etc.). With
them becoming more "thinking", I feel that although I know about what is going
on in their life, I need more time to know what is going on in their minds. And
I cannot find the time!! I am also left with feelings of
"they_are_growing_up_so_fast_and_I_am_missing_out_on_it."   All this is
affecting the happiness of our family unit. We both have come to feel that if I
did not work outside the home, we would gain much in terms of quality of life. 


<SET_MODE_PRACTICAL>

The drop in family income will be devastating -- close to 50%.  The issues are:

* Can we "live" on one salary? We will have to. 
* Can we live in the manner we have grown accustomed to? Definitely not.
* Will there have to be some drastic changes? Definitely.
* How will being a non-paycheck part of the team affect me? There will be
  a subtle shift in perceived "power" in the team. I will probably
  be harder on myself than my husband will be.
* Is this going to cause stresses and problems for us as a family? Probably.
* Are we aware of this? Oh Yes.
* Can we work around it? Awareness of the problems is half the battle, right?



<SET_MODE_PROFESSIONAL>

I am a technical person. If I quit, I will be obsolete very quickly. Technology
will continue to make giant strides, my knowledge and skill set will not. 
I might be able to keep up to a certain extent, but will it be sufficient?
Probably not. When I return, I would have lost most of the gains that 
I have made in going up from the entry level to my current level. 
Ideally, I would like to work part-time. But this 
will probably not happen for me here.

Maybe I should switch jobs:
Internal switching -- forget it.
Outside jobs - Can our family handle the stress of job-hunting and 
and a new job? - I am hesitant to put myself and ourselves through it.



<SET_MODE_WAVERING>

It really boils down to the classic heart_vs_brain dilemma.  The brain says -
"Analyze the situation, reset priorities (juggle :-)), don't be impulsive
and foolish, be less of a perfectionist, do something creative to 
make the situation more acceptable" etc. etc.  

The heart in its optimistic mood says - "Do what makes you and your 
family happy and things will work out in the long run"

The heart in its pessimistic mood says - "Do what makes you and your 
family happy, but ... but ...but ... etc."

Anyway, I have rambled on .... I needed to ramble on. 

    RE: .12 Anonymous Reply
    
    Very well said.  Since I can really relate to your note, 
    I had to double check that it wasn't me who posted it :^)
    
    Please continue to share your insights as they surface.
    
    Jodi- 

    to .12, the anonymous noter
    
    It sounds like in sum you really want to leave your current job...
    Could you make a deal with yourself that you will quit, try out
    the new arrangement for say, a year, then reevaluate?
    
    During that year you could sniff around to see if part-time
    consulting/freelancing is possible. My husband found to his
    amazement that it was, because he has a certain area of technical
    expertise and a good reputation. 
    
    As far as falling behind technically - you are an intelligent
    experienced person; I'm sure you can keep in touch with your
    field enough to know what you're missing, so to speak - then be
    honest with future employers about needing some learning time.
    
    Keep us informed, and good luck.
    
    Lucy

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes to
remain anonymous at this time.

     Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator


*******************************************************************

My husband and I are beginning to seriously think about starting a family.
As a latch-key kid of a single mother since I was in first grade, I would 
give ANYTHING to stay home with my children, or at the very least work part 
time.  

The catch is that my husband's company offers a joke of an insurance 
option, which requires the employees to pay for basically the whole thing. 
So we are on my policy. I think we could afford for me to stay home part 
time, but I need to keep the insurance benefits.  I'm a secretary, so I don't 
think the 'work at home' program is an option.

Is there any way to switch to part time, and still keep the benefits 
package?  Or perhaps there's another option I haven't even thought of. 

Any help would be appreciated.

    Check with your local PSA about the benefits.  For the state of MA (as
    is the case with most states) you must work minumum of 30 (or is it 32)
    hours a week.  For the state of NH it is much lower.  I believe closer
    to 20.  I can refer you to the ORANGEBOOK on VTX and to a local to NH
    PSA if you are interested.  I am in NH and my PSA is Judy Hennequin.
    You're best bet is to look into the ORANGEBOOK and if you are in NH,
    call your PSA.  The ORANGEBOOK has to give you the standards, but there
    are a few states that will differ.
    
    Hope you find what you are looking for.... 
    
    -sandy (also a secretary)
    

    When I came back to work, I worked a thirty hour week.  This was
    perfect because we were able to keep the benefits, I was able to
    get a few minutes to myself and I was also able to spend time with
    my kids when they were not cranky!  (With a full work week, I only
    got to spend time with my kids from 5pm on -- cranky time at my
    household!)
    
    Jennifer
    

    Yes, working 30hrs. or more gets you full benefits.  But I seem to
    remember reading somplace that certain benefits are also available at
    less than 30 hrs (medical insurance? pension?).  I'm not exactly sure,
    check the benefits book.

	From what I recall from my search, working less than 30 hours
	renders you ineligible for STD and LTD benefits.

	Seems like everything else is still available.  I opted for
	30 hours to keep my STD and LTD.

Karen

    
    For what its worth, I believe that career-related Tuition
    Assistance is only available to full-time employees (R40).
    
    Also, vacation and holiday pay are pro-rated for part-time employees.
    
    Carol

    I have a handy chart on this (it is dated 12/90).  I will interoffice
    mail a copy to anyone that sends their mailstop to ROCK::BERNSTEIN.
    
    The short summary is:
    R30-R39 you do NOT get Military Reserve Pay, Standby, or career related
    		course reimbursement
    R20-R29 same as above and you also loose adoption, disability, and
    		group insursance
    
    
    /Deb

Another anonymous note from the author of 115.15.

     Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

******************************************************************

Thanks for everyone's responses.  I had already done some looking at the 
benefits book, and re-confirmed through VTX orange book.  Unfortunately I 
don't live in NH, so getting medical/dental benefits for part-time isn't a 
possibility.

I even called John Hancock to see if I just left Digital what the COBRA 
payments would be, COUGH, COUGH, CHOKE! Again, not a possibility.

Looks like my options are either trying to cut the hours down to 30/week 
and keeping benefits or going to part-time/stay-at-home and paying for my 
husband's insurance, which isn't quite as much as COBRA and it may even 
out after considering child care.

I was hoping for a loophole, and praying for a miracle (or two :^) ).

    Another possibility is if either of you are alumni of a major
    university.  I received a note from my college (Arizona State) that
    they offer an interim insurance program (up to 12 months) for active
    alumni who need coverage.  Though it was not as cheap as Digital, it
    covered 80/20 and would have cost us (family of 3) about $180 a month. 
    It might be something to tide you over until you came up with other
    options. 
    
    Michelle
     

    Is having you be the breadwinner and your husband stay home part
    time an option?  
    
    --bonnie

    In response to the base noter, I too never dreamed that I would EVER
    want to stay home and be a full time mom.  If you had asked me whether
    that would ever be desirable to me before my baby was born, I would have
    told you "NO WAY!"
    
    However, it seems to me that since my little girl has come into my life
    (she turned five months old this past Sunday), I have finally found
    what true happiness is.  Every moment I spend with her gives me a
    profound sense of gratification that I have never known before. 
    I feel as if for the first time in my life, I have discovered the true
    meaning of the word "riches" - and it has nothing to do with what I can
    buy with my paycheck each week.
    
    I am a woman who spent all of the years of my twenties trying to better
    myself educationally and professionally and who once held as my primary
    aspiration to "climb the corporate ladder."  Yet today my professional
    postion, my MBA, and all the associated financial benefits seem to pale
    in comparison to what I derive from spending quality time with my
    precious daughter.
    
    I took Digital's STD and the non-paid 8 week parental leave of absence
    after I gave birth and have been back at work now for almost two months
    now and I am very unhappy.  I feel tremendous resentment that anything
    should be allowed to interrupt my time with my child.  Even though it
    is my own mother watching her while I am at work each day I feel as
    though I am being robbed of all the "firsts" which she will go through
    while I am at work instead of home with her.
    
    I have spent a great many sleepless nights pondering over this 
    and for me the answer rings clear and true in my mind and heart - I
    will only be happy if I can be at home with my child.  I know I will
    regret it if I allow her to grow and develop without being there to
    experience each wonderous day with her.
    
    As such, I am waiting for the current round of TSFO layoffs to be put
    into effect (latest rumor is either 9/14 or 9/21) with hopes that I
    will be one of the ones to be tapped on the shoulder.  The "buy-out"
    package would be all I would need to be able to pay off some of my
    current debt and be able to survive on my husbands salary (a 50% pay
    decrease for us).  I pray each night that someone like me who wants
    nothing more then to receive "the package" will be granted it, while
    enabling some of my counterparts who dread the idea of losing their
    jobs to remain in their positions with Digital.
    
    Sorry this is so long and rambling but this seemed like the ideal forum
    to be able to let this all out.
    
    Regard,
    
    Elaine
                                

    Elaine,
    
    Not to rain on your parade, but as the mother of two, I've found
    that there are days that  I'm *so* glad I have a job to go to...! 
    I support anyone who wants to stay home with kids, and this reply is
    not meant to discourage you from leaving. I only want to suggest that
    there may come a day when you want to be working again, and if it
    happens, it won't mean you are weakening your committment to your 
    child. 
    
    Lucy

    A note from the BASENOTER.  I have now decided to come "out of the
    closet" now that I have been TFSO'd.
    
    After being home with my newborn and my 2 year old, I am finding that I
    LOVE IT.  I was praying for the layoff, and was lucky, but I would have
    most likely stayed home anyway . . . 
    
    The cold days when you can't go outside are bad, but IT IS OVERALL
    WONDERFUL.  I always thought that I would work with children, that I
    NEEDED to work to be happy.  I have found that I just needed to set
    goals (lots of time with the children, time for myself and my husband,
    get X amount of things done each day, and organize the house, etc.)  It
    has been wonderful, and although I will miss Digital and the NOTES
    files, I am looking forward to life at home.
    
    Good luck to everyone, and thanks for your replies.
    
    Jolene

    Hi!
    
    I was fortunate to stay at home the first 8 months after my daughter
    was born.  I came back to work part-time, then full time, and now
    back to part time the last 2 years. I work 4 days a week. I wanted to
    have an extra day off to make a long weekend to spend with my daughter.
    She is now almost 4 and have found that on my day off I sometimes
    can't keep her entertained.  If I do things around the house first
    thing in the morning while she watches tv, she then starts acting up,
    seeming to do things to tick me off.  So I get frustrated. She gets
    frustrated I guess because she's not getting my attention.  So I have
    been trying to not do much around the house on my day with her, and I
    still can't seem to keep her entertained enough.
    
    I wonder what mothers who stay at home do all day to keep their
    kid/kids entertained.  I've thought of someday staying at home full
    time but I'm not sure if I would go nuts. I can get bored easily, and
    my daughter seems to too.  My husband and I are trying for another
    baby, but until that happens Kimberly, my daughter, is the only child.
    That is hard sometimes on all of us, because she hasn't any playmates
    other than me and my husband.  We live in a neighborhood with not many
    kids, not a real friendly go outside and play with everyone type.
    
    I guess I'd like to get some input from anyone who knows of moms who
    stay at home, what they do if they only have 1 child with them...
    Also, how would I go about finding out if any moms would be interested
    in forming a playgroup on my day off?  I suppose I could put an ad
    in the local paper.  Any ideas, or know of anyone who might be
    interested?  I live in the Shirley Ma. area...
    
    thanks for any info
    Michelle

    Michelle,
    
    My best friend, Kristine, has only 1 child.  Her daughter, Alison, is 
    5 years old.  When Alison was your daugther's age, she attended 
    pre-school 5 mornings from 9-11:30.  Kristine did the housework
    in the mornings and spent afternoons with Alison.  Alison got all 
    Kristine's attention.  Is your daugther attending a daycare center
    or preschool?  I would suggest you have her go to school in the
    morning, if you really must do your housework.  Otherwise, there
    are a lot of things you two can do together, such as visiting
    musuems, libraries, parks, etc..   And don't forget, 4 years old
    likes to help out with housework too.  While you are cooking, you
    can ask her to help too.
    
    I think it is wonderful that you can spend 1 day everyweek with
    your daugther.   Please treasure the time you have, they do
    grow up very fast.
    
    Wendy  

    Hi Wendy,
    
    thanks for the advise!  I certainly do look forward to my Fridays
    with Kim.  And I try to involve her in whatever I'm doing, but
    she tends to have a short attention span when it comes to helping
    out.  I've tried asking her to set the table for supper, but she
    says "I don't want to". How do I get her to "want" to help??!! I
    would certainly welcome the help she could give, but she's up and
    down about wanting to help.  She's also very strong willed and
    determined to get her way, so if something needs to be done a certain
    way and she doesn't want to do it that way we end up arguing, and
    boy does she argue!  I'll negotiate when it's applicable, but sometimes
    there isn't room for negotiating.  I give her choices, but if she
    doesn't like either, then it's a big fight to the finish!  I know this
    is normal, but can be very frustrating.
    
    Anyway, back to the original idea of doing things, I try to play games
    and go places, but now that the cold weather is coming, and me not
    being much of an outdoors person in the winter, I need to come up with
    indoor activities.  I'll probably pick up an activities book at the
    store.  Also, I had a thought about library activities when you
    suggested it.
    
    Kim does go to daycare twice a week, and goes to grammy's twice a week.
    She's been clingy lately and says she doesn't want to go to school. But
    once she's there, she has fun!  If there comes a time when I'm not
    working at all, I can't justify the cost of sending her to daycare,
    unless it's closer than the one she goes to now, 20 min. away.  I have
    thought about putting her into another daycare closer to home, but she
    has been going to Piccolo Mondo for 2 years now.  I'm hoping if it
    comes to changing schools, she'll adjust, and the time she spends there
    is good for her.  She needs other kids around for play, and if I don't
    get into any play group or send her to preschool part time she'll be
    lonely, even though I'm  there.  I'll figure this out!  But thanks for
    any advise or help.....
    
    Michelle
    
    p.s. sorry about the lengthy note!

    Michelle-
    
    Have you tried looking for parents networks or playgroups through your
    local paper?  Through our local paper, we found a playgroup in Groton 
    that meets 2 days a week (Tues. and Friday, I think) from 10-11:30. They 
    meet at the parish house of a local church (that has lots of toys!) and 
    for $1/visit, the kids also get juice and crackers/cookies. You could
    check this one out (not sure if the ages are compatible with your
    daughter), or maybe start one like it (I'm sure the coordinator of the
    Groton group would talk to you about how to start one).

    re: .31    Great info!   Thanks!

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes
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       Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

*************************************************************

I'm looking for some advice, reassurance, and opinions about
a decision I'm facing.  I'm seriously thinking of volunteering
for the package in June.  Here's my situation:

WORK:

I used to love working at DEC.  It was fun!  We got to do
exciting projects, and I felt a real sense of ownership and
accomplishment for my work.

I'm currently working 24 hours/week.  My job is not nearly as fun as
it once was. The best part of my job now is my immediate colleagues;
they're a creative and dedicated group of people. The worst part of it
is the current atmosphere and chaos at DEC, which is bringing even
this "good" group to its collective knees. Promotions just aren't
happening anymore.  I don't see any future for my professional
advancement here, other than my weekly paycheck.  I don't feel I own
my work anymore.  There's a good chance my entire division will be
sold off.

A series of family crises and illnesses in the past month has caused
me to miss a lot of work time.  This has been very difficult for my
colleagues, and has made me realize just how thinly I'm stretching
myself.  The illnesses of one family member may be ongoing,
necessitating my continued involvement.

HOME:

I have an 18-month-old daughter.  I'd love to spend more time at home
with her.  Our daycare situation has not been without problems.  I see
my daughter growing in some ways that I don't like.  I'd like to be
home to provide a consistent environment for her.  As it is now, I 
feel as though I'm missing her growing up!!

We'd like to have a second child, probably in another two years.

My husband is supportive of me staying home.  He believes this would
be best for our daughter, but he shares my concerns, given below:

PROBLEMS:

If I stay home, things will be very tight financially.
We'll get by, but will have to give up a lot of luxuries, such as
eating out. We won't be able to have some remodeling done on our
house. We'll have to scrimp for some necessities. We certainly won't
be able to save as much for retirement or college as I'd like. 

I worry about the pressure that being the only bread-winner will put
on my husband.

Do I have the patience to live with a toddler full-time?  I love
her dearly, but sometimes feel totally DRAINED on the days we
stay home now.  There are times when a grocery shopping trip
together just seems insurmountable.

Will I feel terribly isolated at home? All of my friends are at DEC.
(I'm starting to contact organizations in my community .. La Leche,
YMCA, and such, to meet other moms.) None of my family lives locally. 
(My husband's family is nearby, but are all elderly. While we visit
frequently, it's not the same as having friends or sibilings of our
age.) 

Will I face a difficult time when I decide to re-join the
workforce? Is that decision too far off in the future to worry over
now? 

How can I deal with missing the sense of financial independence that
having my own paycheck allows me?  How can I avoid feeling like I'm
spending "his money", not "our money?" 

How can I deal with the change in my identity?  A lot of who I perceive
I am is based on what I do here at DEC (although that has been
decreasing exponentially since I had our daughter!)

Much as I hate to admit it, I realize some of my worries are
because part of me has bought into our society's standards that don't
value work done in the home. The feminist in me rebels at these
standards, but I still have to come to grips with all my fears
about this big change.

Thoughts?? Suggestions??

    A note about spending 'his' money: Paid work and raising a family are job
    enough for two. My wife and I agree that my work in DEC is possible BECAUSE
    she does (most of) the homework, e.g. not I have a job, but we have a job.
    I do the technical work, but she is the facilitator. See yourself as
    that part of the worker who stays home doing that part of the job.
    MAybe it help to see you two as the two sides of a hand - unseparable.
    Hope this helps, 
    Michel 

    Five years ago, I was in this situation.  I worked for a company where
    the opportunity to advance and be happy in my job totally disappeared.
    
    All of your concerns are valid and I wish I had put as much thought
    into my decision to stay home as you are doing.  It's not that I would
    have changed my choice, but I think if I had put more thought into my
    decision, I would have been more prepared for the stress that this
    change brings on.  Also to compound the situation, we live in a rural
    community.  My nearest neighbor was almost 1 mile away - talk about
    isolation!
    
    I agree with the previous reply.  You are part of a team.  You just
    don't happen to be making an income that is payable to the checking
    account.  This does not mean that your contribution is less
    significant.  Also check out the possibility of doing some sort of home
    based business (i.e., word processing, crafts, afterschool daycare).
    
    Re-entering the workforce is difficult.  People may not value your
    skills if you've been out of the workforce for a long period of time.
    Also, don't be surprised if you are unable to get a job making the same
    salary.
    
    As I said before, I would not have changed my decision.  If you want to
    talk offline about all of the trials and tribulations, give me a call.
    
    Laura

    Anon,
    
    We went through this 5 years ago when Frank was offered a package from
    his employer.  For him, it has been wonderful to sty home with the
    kids, although it isn't without its problems, particularly at first.  
    
    We threw his package money into paying down or off bills so we could
    afford to live on my income.  At that it took about 18 months to adjust
    to a lower income, (and unfortunately a few bounced checks).  Even
    though we got rid of $600.00 in housing expenses, and 50/week in
    day-care, it was still a net loss of about $400./month, and that takes
    time to adjust.  However, this year we thought about his going back to
    work so we could have more cash to finish our remodeling work and came
    up with the following figures:
    
    	1.  To maintain harmony in the household, we would need someone in
    	twice a week  to clean.  $28-56/week
    
    	2.  Baby-sitting for Atlehi:  75-100/week
    
    	3.  Before/after school daycare for Carrie and full-time care for
    	the summer, again another 50-100/week.  
    
    	4.  Increase convenience/fast foods or meals at resturants figure
    	an increase of $50/week.
    
    Suddenly it is more profitable for him to continue to stay home and add
    more sweat equity, than to try put money away, and pay for the added
    expenses, not to mention impact on the kids.  
    
    Good luck in your decision,
    
    Meg

   re: Anon,
   
   My wife is at home with our 4 children.  Yes, its a lot of work for
   her, and neither one of us has had a full night's sleep for a while
   now, but that is what we have chosen to do.  You do have options in
   the areas of income generation, maintaining interaction with peers for
   the kids, maintaining adult contact for yourself, and many if not all
   of the areas you are concerned about.  Contact me offline if you want
   to talk with me or my wife about how we are dealing with these issues.
   
   Peace,
   
   - Tom

   ps - It's your life, it's your family, and ultimately, it's your
   decision.  No one else has to live with the results or pay your bills
   or take care of your kids.  Remember that when people try to influence
   your decisions... 

Boy am I pissed!!  I just entered a lengthy reply only to lose my link and my
message!!  Anyway, now that I have vented...


RE: .33

I have recently given my notive and will be leaving Digital to be a stay at
home Mom.  I have dealt with a lot of the issues you mention you are dealing
with.  Call me!!

It has been a very difficult time and decision.  There are so many things to
consider and, as a friend of mine puts it, "swirling emotions"! I didn't really
feel that any of the previous replies were relating to the feelings I have been
dealing with, so I thought I would share some of mine with you.

When I gave my notice, most people were very supportive.  I work with mostly
men, and most of their wives are stay at home Moms.  The reactions have mostly
been "good decision", "we have never regretted it one minute", etc.  I have
found this both helpful and annoying (remember "swirling emotions"!).  How 
can they relate?

The issue that has least bothered me, once we determined we could "afford" for
me to stay home, is the financial difference.  The short term financial changes
for me are bearable and worth it.  The fewer dinners out, the scrimping on
needed items, cheaper if any vacations, no new car...these things I can deal
with.  In time we can afford to save more for retirement and college.  

The hardest part for me to deal with is the loss of my career.  I am someone
who is an engineer, a wife, a mother ...  How can I take one of those away and
still feel complete, fulfilled.  I have been in this field for 12 years (8
here).  It's hard to simply give it up and "not regret it one minute"?  I don't
think this is possible.  I am still trying to work this out.

I live in a great family neighborhood.  Many of the woman are stay at home
Moms. I have trouble relating to them now.  Most of these woman had always
planned to be stay at home Moms.  Most were not career woman, or if they were
it was a stepping point until they had children at which point they knew they
would stop working.  This IS VERY different from my life.

Still we considered all things in making the decision and we did what we
thought was right and would make us all happier and healthier.  Once we made
the decision, I never really doubted it, yet I still had to come to terms with
all I was feeling (still am).  I sure we will have a lot of adjustment ahead,
but it will all work out fine.

Well it has been a couple weeks since I made the decision and gave my notice.
I am feeling much more positive now.  I am looking forward to being home and
spending more time with my 2 year old.  I know it's the right decision.

BUT I AM STILL SCARED!!

Good luck with your decision.  If you want to talk, feel free to write or call
directly.  My last day of work is June 2.

Meaghan
WONDER::ENGDAHL
DTN 293-5957
    

(Side issue alert)

When you lose a link like that, providing you are using character cell notes
and not windows notes, you need not lose it all ...

For example in your case ...

	As soon as you get that error, OPEN PARENTING again.  You should
	come back to the note you wish to reply to ... then type
	REPLY/LAST ... Notes will have remembered your last text.  If
	you do anything that affects teh text buffer, you'll lose it though.

	If you can't get back to parenting, OPEN a different conference
	do a WRITE/LAST, extract the file, then delete the file.  Then,
	when you can get back to PARENTING, include the file into the note
	you wanted to reply to.

Stuart

Two years ago, my wife left her executive career and became a stay at home
mom with our son. It was the best decision we've ever made. We lost 35% of
our household income, but as others have said, you do adjust. Little things 
become very exciting and rewarding. It's not for everyone, but I wouldn't
have it any other way.

My wife is now working about 13 hours/wk, in two jobs that are very rewarding.
They don't generate much income, but she gets to work with kids, and
professionals, and make a little pocket change.

Chris 

I have given a little thought to being a stay-at-home dad (not by choice,
but if the circumstances arose...). Depending on your engineering specialty
and the age of your kids, you may be able to maintain active professional 
contact from home. You might consider technical writing (a book, magazine
articles, etc.) or participating in technical forums via e-mail (probably
no income, but you keep in touch). You could also try some free-lance
technical work from home. I have recommended elsewhere getting onto
America Online. Not only does it give you direct access to a lot of people
and information that you could work with, it also gives you Internet e-mail
access (you could even talk directly to your colleagues at Digital via e-mail).

    We are considering my wife quitting her full-time job as a nurse to stay
    at home with the kids sometime next spring or so (son now 4 yrs.,
    daughter 6 mos.). I am interested to hear feedback from anyone who has
    considered this and done it or decided against it. We have always been a
    two-income family, but now feel that we have reached a phase in our
    lives where it is better to have someone at home. This would probably be
    for about 5 to 7 years (by which time both kids would be well into
    elementary school and able to fend for themselves after school if we
    were both working).

    Advantages:

	o Mother gets to enjoy kids growing up!
	
	o Don't have to worry about daycare. No worries about late days or work
	  travel.

	o Someone always home to care for sick kids.

	o As a nurse, my wife can work part-time at pretty much the same hourly
	  wage, at the same job, maintaining her professional contacts and
	  skills for when she wants to return to full-time work.

	o When they start kindergarden, no worries about short or half school
	  days.

	o More relaxed atmosphere for kids (no hurrying to get them to daycare
	  before work). Mommy's always there for them.

	o Mom only has to worry about kids, not both work and kids.
	  
	o Mom not out on Rt 2 (central MA) everyday during the winter, or called
	  in during snowstorms.
	

    Disadvantages:

	o Loss of about 25% of regular net household income once daycare costs
	  are accounted for (part-time could be reasonably dependable, but still
	  much smaller amount). This means tight budget and minimal savings,
	  which means less money for college and retirement.

	o Total dependency on my job at Digital for income and benefits.

	o Professional working mother adjusting to being a full-time mom, with
	  no other adults around. Worries about isolation, boredom.

	o Less income means activities for kids have to be cheap or free.

	o Fewer kids for our kids to socialize with.


    What other things should we think about? What are suggestions for
    mitigating the disadvantages?

    
    re. 42
    
    One thing for your wife to think about is - in 5 - 7 years, technology
    will have advanced so much that it will be difficult to be competitive
    in the nursing profession again without retraining. A friend of mine
    went from nursing to medical sales 8 years ago and she finds it almost 
    impossible to get a job as a nurse now.
    
    I wonder if a part-time position would be better for your wife in the
    long run. There is a lot of "contract" nursing work out there.
    
    
    Eva

       I know a couple of nurses who work two 12 hour shifts per week.
       Have you considered this?  If I was a nurse, that is what I
       would do!  The two I know who do this, the two shifts change
       from week to week which makes childcare tricky but both have
       family to take care of the children.  

       I agree about the previous comment (becoming professionally obsolete).
       If I stayed home with my daughter, as a software engineer, I would 
       be obsolete by the time I returned to the work force.  Eventually 
       (once I can afford it), I plan to work part time.  I also enjoy the 
       interaction with other adults and feel that Lauren benefits from
       her interaction with other children at daycare.  I wish I could
       work 2 12 hour shifts per week!
       
       It really is a personal choice.  However, the disadvantages that
       you cite can almost all be overcome if your wife can get two
       12 hour shifts per week.

       Good luck!

       Karen

While we don't have family in the area, making any kind of day shift difficult
from a childcare point, we are definitely thinking of her doing some
evening/weekend work when I can watch the kids. I caution her that too much will
mean she *never* gets a break, but a little here and there is ok. For that
reason, I don't want to ever rely on that income, so that if she gets a little
run down, she can take a break without feeling pressure. Instead, that money
will go to fun stuff, like dining out (our biggest vice!), babysitter while we
go to a movie, etc. She likes that idea in that the money she would earn would
be for her to play with.

I think the part time work could avoid obsolescence. One thing she finds here is
that the hospital is behind the times in many ways compared to her old job in
Dallas. Right now she is somewhat on the leading edge of the nursing profession
in that she is qualified as an RNFA (RN First Assistant), where she assists the
primary physician during surgery instead of another doctor assisting. This is
the new wave in cost-driven medicine. Insurance only has to pay for another RN
in the room, not a second MD. All kinds of other interesting ramifications, like
she could be much more liable in a lawsuit, but it means that she is in demand
when she is available. This should keep her skills very sharp.

I think obsolescence depends heavily on the profession. For some professions
only full-time work allows you to keep pace, but others can get by with much
less if it is fairly regular. In this case, my wife is fortunate that she can
keep up pretty well with just a few hours work a week; as an RNFA, those hours
are very high quality.

Steve,

Your wife should read an article that was in one of this summer's issues of
"Working Mother", titled: "What I learned when my stay-at-home fantasy came
true." Granted, it is slanted by it's very appearance in this magazine, toward
the "pros" of working outside the office vs. the "cons" of being home w/kids,
but it is just an interesting viewpoint to be aware of so your wife can go
into it with her eyes open.  I think you seem to have a grip on the trade-offs
by your written list, but there are some "intangibles" and hidden dangers (mind
games mostly) that only those who have lived both ways can truly describe.

I will look for which issue it was - but that title appeared on the front
cover... I think the main point was to be REALISTIC in your expectations.

It does sound like your particular situation would work well since your wife's
skills are in demand and of a nature that can be applied on a "part-time" basis.

Best of luck through the transition,
-Cori

    Steve,
    
    Frank has been the full-time parent at our house, and I know what  he
    has had  to say about it.  "The reason men have gone to work and women
    have stayed home is cause men are bigger."  (he says this with a smiley
    face, but really, he  is relieved when I get homw and  give him a few
    hours off, and on weekends when I  take the kids out and leave him
    alone for hours.  
    
    Here is a word of advice if you two do decide to go with one full-time
    parent.  give the FTP a break when you get home.  he or she will need
    it.  It gives the FTP a chance to regroup, even if it is only long
    enough for a  shower (alone) a chapter of a book, or a talk on the
    phone without rugrats underfoot or getting into things.  
    
    meg

	Re: Working Mother Magazine

	It was the September issue.  I read it last night and it
	reinforced for me that I had made the right decision in
	returning to work (for me).  I just know I'd be a terror
	to my children and my husband by the end of the day if
	I was a stay at home parent.  I just can't bake cookies
	or do playdoh and read books all day.  I'd go nuts!  

	Lauren loves going to daycare and sometimes, on the weekends,
	I think she is bored being with me (unless I'm playing with
	her fulltime, which I can''t).  At daycare, she is constantly
	entertained by the other children and by the daycare provider
	(who has kids 11+ so doesn't have to deal with little ones
	all day long).

	Karen