Conference moira::parenting

    My girls were 3 and 4 when their father left them.. they did not see him
    again until there were 10 and 11 - 

    They were quite sad in the beginning - mostly bewildered and confused..
    they'd been fortunate in so much as we had spent the summer, that year,
    with my grandmother alone, without him.. he then came back for a few
    months before leaving for good in the October.. that separation in the
    Summer had prepared them a little, I think.

    Anyway it helps if other family members can close ranks and help you a
    bit right now.. I had a brother, aunt, uncle and cousins around at the
    time.. they took turns visiting more often and taking the girls for a
    few hours, a day, overnight etc.  I found myself spending much more
    time with the children.. we even started going to bed early with the
    television and a big bowl of popcorn - we'd watch TV, talk, read - it
    was great for all of us - we became very close.  I'm sure some will
    caution you against "getting too close" - I don't feel there is any
    such thing, especially when everyone is so fragile and needs each other
    so much.  I'd caution against keeping routines the same that included
    dad; gradually change those routines to accommodate the three of you
    instead.. make it gradual - it is not cutting dad out, just learning to
    live without him.

    good luck,

    gailann

Have you and your spouse considered couples therapy?  Even in the cases
where a divorce is in process, counsellors perform "divorce therapy" to
hash out long-term issues such as how to handle the children's needs.
(If he won't talk about the problems between the two of you, perhaps
the therapist can help him understand the children's concerns. People can
often accept advice from a therapist that they'd never accept from their
partner/spouse!)

My sister is recently divorced and has been having problems with her
6-year old son.  The children's therapist she's taken him to has group sessions
for children of divorce in this age group. (I'm not sure if they do it
for younger children.)  It's been an interesting experience, because
the therapist has been able to convey to my sister some of my nephew's
fears and worries that he's never mentioned before.  (He's very
uncomfortable with the idea that she might start to date, even though
she hasn't yet.  He told the therapist that mommy was dating her boss,
something my sister's never even considered!)

The EAP program is also a valuable source of short-term support and
referrals to outside sources.

    re.1
    I agree.

    Hi.  My two children were 2.9 yrs and 10 months old when their father
    left.
    
    My daughter adjusted VERY well...  She didn't have a chance (10 months)
    to get to know him.  My son, on the other hand, had a really hard time.
    He missed daddy, wanted to know where he was, when he was coming back,
    etc.  At first I kept telling him that he was working (which I know now
    was wrong).  He finally figured out that daddy wasn't coming back.  
    
    Make sure you are honest with your children.  Tell them that daddy is
    not living with you anymore because ...  ie, mommy and daddy don't get
    along anymore.  Reassure him that you love him and will never leave
    him.  
    
    My son got VERY clingy.  He had nightmares, he thought I was going to
    leave him.  In the beginning, I was completely alone.  All of my
    relatives lived in NY, including my parents.  Then, my father got laid
    off in NY and they moved in with me and the kids.  Then I had problems
    with my parents spoiling them to the point where they wouldn't listen
    to me.  Make sure YOU stay in control.  I know it's hard, but it takes
    time to adjust.
    
    If you would like to talk off-line, feel free to send me mail.
    
    Peggy

    This was quite a while back for me.  My son was around 2 years old at
    the time.  I had no idea he would be effected.  He was really terrible
    at daycare at about 4.  His dad lived in the same town, but the divorce
    was really messy and visits were tense.  Tense in the sense that it
    involved my ex and I.
    
    Anyway, at about age 4, my son was reacting quite violently to the
    whole thing.  I didn't know that my children's security was being
    shaken, by the unroutiness of our lives.  I was working, trying to take
    a couple of night classes, and still have a social life.  Dinners
    weren't always at the same time, nor was bedtime, playtime or a bunch
    of other things.
    
    I learned that my son was reacting to insecurity.  I had to establish a
    routine and stick to it as best as possible.  Also, I had to find
    caretakers that were helpful and flexible.  The daycare center my son
    was at was going through a bunch of employees, which didn't help the
    routine thing with my son.  He was biting, kicking and running away
    from the place.  Same thing at another center.
    
    Finally and gratefully, a parent noticed my distress and told me about
    her story.  I called this special school where they looked my situation
    and my son.  With their help and understanding, my son and I got the
    help we needed.
    
    Anyway, by the time my son entered Kindergarten, it took only a week
    before I could leave my son without him clinging to me for dear life. I
    could leave without guilt and without the whole place staring at us. 
    There were episodes when he regressed, but we worked through it.
    
    My son is now 8 and he has a lot more confidence and is nothing like
    his pre-school days.  He still doesn't react very well to changes, but
    he's sure better with it.  

When your child is missing Daddy, how about suggesting something that will
empower the child a little?  For instance, the child could call Daddy on the
telephone at that time, or could "write a letter" or draw a picture (pretty
much the same thing at age 4).  :-) 

     Carol

    My stepdaughter is 10.  A counselor told me that Judy Blume has written
    some good books about kids with divorced parents, and that it might be
    good for her to read one, but she couldn't give me the name of a
    specific book.
    
    So can anyone give me the title of a book (by Blume or anyone else)
    that might speak to a 10-year-old girl with divorced parents? 
    
    					Val
    

    I believe the Judy Blume book about divorce is called 
    "It's Not the End of the World".  I remember reading it
    when I was in fifth grade and really liking it.
    
                                                Tracy

    Hi,
    
    I was wondering if there are any parents out there that have experience
    with divorce and it's effects on children.  I have a 4.5 yr old
    son who is experiencing sleeping problems.  He keeps coming into my
    room at night wanting to sleep with me.  He say's he is scared and
    I have hard time getting him to go back to his room.  This goes on
    once sometimes twice during the night.
    
    I feel bad because he is having tough time with his DAD and I
    separating... His father hasn't been to consistent these days..with
    his visits.  I try to keep the lines of communications open... and I
    tell him how much i love him and that I'll always be there for him.
    
    We've been seperated for 7 months now and My son has been very clingy...
    I have communicated this to his Father but he doesn't seem too worried.
    
    has anyone experienced this?  Does anyone have any advice?
    
    just a little bit tired...
    Thanks
    Di

    Well, here I go public.  I don't feel real comfortable telling people
    that we've separated and I'm filing for divorce, but it IS a fact of my
    life, I've got nothing to be ashamed of, and I trust PARENTING as a
    supportive community.
    
    FYI, I initiated these changes and feel certain that I am doing the
    right thing.  I regret that things didn't work out, but what looked
    like small, insurmountable problems in the beginning just mushroomed. 
    I must get divorced to get my life back and be happy.
    
    Of course, I am experiencing all the usual guilt, worry, and fear about
    my daughter Ilona.  Just one week before our breakup, she started at a
    new and very good daycare center.  She is much happier there, but in
    the last two days she started hitting and is very clingy when I leave.
    I moved out of our house and moved in with a friend 6 days ago.
    
    Our custody situation is as follows.  I pick her up from daycare on
    Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and drop her off the next morning.  Bill
    does the same on Tuesday and Thursday.  He takes her for 24 hours
    during the weekend, with the specific date and time arranged between
    us.
    
    For the first 10 days, Bill was out of the house and with friends. 
    Then he moved in and I went to live with a friend.  My friend is in the
    later stages of a divorce.  She is a kindergarten teacher and a good
    Mom with 3 kids ages 9, 7, and 4.  My daughter sleeps with the 4 year
    old when she's with me, and sleeps in her own room at her Dad's house.
    
    I realize the many changes are tough on her.  A  new daycare,
    Mom and Dad not being together, a new home (with me) with different
    house rules, sleeping with another child for the first time, etc. 
    She also can't not notice how tense both her parents are.
    
    I just don't know if there's anything we can do to make things easier
    for her.  I'd welcome any ideas.  
    
    When she crawls into bed with me at 3 a.m. (in the den downstairs),
    I've let her stay there mainly because I'm too beat to carry her back
    up to her friend's bed.  I could set up a bed for her in the den with
    me, but I think she'd feel lonely there until I came to bed.   I'm
    hoping that the companionship of the other girl (a very warm child),
    will help Ilona get through this time.
    
    Last night, I spent the after dinner hour playing with the two girls
    and gave Ilona lots of hugs.
    
    Thanks,
    Laura
    

So sorry, Laura.  I've never been through this so I can't imagine how you 
feel but I hope it all works out for you and Ilona (and your husband too!).

Cheryl

    One of my coworkers made an excellent suggestion, to tell Ilona to take
    whatever special toys she wants when she shuttles between parents.
    
    So she is using her backpack and choosing what to take, as long as it
    fits in the backback.  She took her baby doll from Dad's to Mom's and 
    took her baby doll and favorite teddy bear back to Dad's.  I'll find
    out what she took back to Mom's when I get her tonight.
    
    My brother said, "This lets her exercise some control over her
    situation."
    
    L

    
    I was in a similar situation and similar visitation arrangements with
    my then 4 and 7 year old.  They did okay, but over time were somewhat
    agitated.  When it all came down to it, the 7 year old was finally able
    to tell me that he didn't like it because he felt like he always had to
    remember everything and he hated having the carry things with him all
    the time.  It was just little stuff - sneakers for school, a book he
    was reading, or whatever, but it ended up being more stress than he
    wanted to deal with.
    
    We've worked out a slightly different setup now.  In the past, I had
    the boys Tuesday and Thursday night, then all day Sunday and Sunday
    night.  They were with their father Mon, Wed and Fri night, Saturday
    day, and Saturday night was flexible.  The way it is now, I pick them
    up Sunday morning and have them till I bring them to school on Wed
    morning.  Their father picks them up on Wed night, and has them till
    Sunday am (or Sat pm).  For the older one this has worked out MUCH
    better.  The younger one has a harder time dealing with "missing" us,
    but for both of them it's given them more stability because they can
    start something and leave it till that night to finish and that sort of
    stuff - it makes them feel a little more permanent.  They also don't
    always feel like they're "leaving" somewhere.
    
    We were concerned about work hours, but rather than leave early a few
    days a week, I just work a few short days then a few long days, and it
    seems to work okay for my job, as well as their father's job.
    
    It helped ME a lot too, knowing that they'd BE there for a few days,
    and to just concentrate on spending time with them, and then have the
    rest of the time for groceries or laundry or whatever - I think it's
    improved the quality of our time together.  I must say though, that by
    Saturday, I really miss them ...
    
    Good luck!!
    Patty

    My friend, who is a kindergarten teacher, has a student who was on an
    alternate night schedule.  She feels that this schedule was very bad
    for him - imagine if YOU never slept in the same bed two night in a
    row!  The child's father is in jail on drug charges, so the schedule is
    no longer a problem.  ;-)
    
    The court set up the following schedule for my toddler.  She is to see
    her Dad 4 - 7 p.m. every Tuesday and from end of school Friday to
    Sunday morning on alternate weekends.  I think this is a reasonable
    schedule for all involved.  We haven't implemented it yet for reasons
    too personal to discuss, so I can't say how it will actually work out.
    
    Laura

    <For Windows users, be aware this is a long note...>
    
    I could have put this note under Sleep Problems, but I believe Ilona's
    (age 3.5) problem last night was divorce-related, so I'm putting it
    here to get responses from other parents who are divorced or separated.
    
    She spent this past weekend with her dad.  As far as I can tell, it
    went okay.  I know she went swimming on Saturday and she didn't
    complain about her weekend or her dad's behavior.  She's been spending
    alternate weekends with him for a year now.  Most are okay experiences,
    some are dreadfully stressful, and a few have been excellent.  Her dad
    is going through a lot of emotional problems.
    
    The babysitter said Ilona parted well with her dad yesterday morning,
    and that she told him she loved him and hugged him goodbye.
    
    Last night was her first back home with me.  Everything seemed normal
    right through bedtime.  The only difference was that she went right to
    sleep without doing puzzles, which is her usual routine these days.  I
    think she was just too tired to do any more.  She is in good health
    although she complained of a mysterious pain in her ankle before bed. 
    It looks okay to me and she walked normally this morning - I think she
    has growing pains.  This morning she said her leg hurts, not the ankle.
    
    Anyway, she woke up at 3 a.m. and got in bed with me.  I have been
    successfully encouraging her to stay in her bed and sleep all night,
    to change her post-divorce pattern of hopping in bed with me to
    continue her night's sleep.  The problem was that she couldn't get back
    to sleep although she was tired and cranky.  I tried snacks, warm milk,
    reading books, talking about what might be on her mind (unclear), etc.  
    
    Finally at 5:50 a.m. we both fell back asleep in my bed.  At that
    point, I was very freaked out.  I have an important deadline today. 
    And her babysitter has missed much sleep with a sick baby.  I was
    relieved that we got another 3 hours sleep, but I'm still disoriented
    and tired.  I'll make this deadline, but its like flying through pea
    soup.
    
    In the morning, I asked her if something was bothering her physically
    last night.  She said no.  I asked if something was on her mind.  She
    said she was thinking about Dad.  She answered yes to the following
    questions:  Were you missing him?  Was he in a good mood this weekend? 
    Did you and Dad get along well?
    
    I chalked  it up to an adjustment problem changing from her dad to me,
    but I still feel troubled and would welcome any input.  
    
    This evening, I'll see if she wants to telephone him.  Although I have
    misgivings, I'm considering asking if she wants him to take her out for
    dinner today or tomorrow.  She and I are going on vacation to my
    parents for a week, so she'll be separated from her dad for 11 days. 
    She knows we're leaving soon and I think she figured this out.  So the
    problem may be due to this awareness.
    
    Thanks,
    Laura

    I hope somebody has some feedback or just TLC on this.  I'm feeling
    pretty stressed myself right now.  (And you know I rarely share
    personal issues in this public forum.)
    
    I realized I should clarify what I meant by a typical "okay" weekend
    with Dad.  Ilona doesn't have any more enthusiasm for visitaiton, like
    she used to.   I'm not sure exactly why, though I have some working
    assumptions which I don't discuss with her.  So in this context, "okay"
    is a lackluster term meaning "fair-to-middling."  Given that she loves
    him, I guess she's got a load of ambivalence.
    
    Having thought about it all day, I've decided to discuss with her
    Ilona's impending 11-day separation from Dad, to air her feelings on
    the subject.  This technique usually takes a load off her mind and
    returns her to her usual cheerful self.  I'll ask if she wants to
    telephone her dad tonight.  Hopefully, these measures will be enough to
    make her feel okay again.  I'll allow for her being extra tired today,
    maybe still cranky.
    
    Meantime, I just finished coding modifications to my work, submitted to
    build, and am in the home stretch.  I'll be outta here by 5!
    
    Laura

    We both a a normal night's sleep.  As usual, she chirped, "Mommy!  Its
    mor-r-rning time!" at 6:30 this morning.  
    
    I'll have her phone Dad tonight when I get home from work.  And tell
    her she can call him anytime while we're on vacation.
    
    One goes through so many dark nights, so many doubts, fears, and
    anxieties with divorce.
    
    Laura

    
    Hi Laura,
    
    I've got nothing to offer with regards to the divorce/seperation
    issues but do extend you my sympathies!    If it's any consolation
    (doubtful), Jason (4.5) has had middle of the night wakings since
    he was around three that seem to be related to his mind working
    overtime - perhaps some of it stress-related but most of it related
    to an extra busy day or learning a new concept or meeting some new
    people.    Luckily, it's a once-in-the-blue thing!
    
    Best wishes,
    cj/

    Laura,
    
    This may be a twist on what you seem to think is going on, but I'll
    give it a shot since it doesn't seem to be uncommon.  
    
    Let's make the assumption that she loves her dad fiercely, and maybe
    has always been "Daddy's little girl".  We'll assume that she really
    did mean it when she said she couldn't sleep cuz she was thinking about
    dad and missing him.
    
    When a person is separated from something that they love *SO* much,
    it's sometimes easier to do without completely than to have limited
    time with that thing (Dad).  A friend of mine's daughter went through
    similar feelings.  Dad was the WORLD to her, but she only got to see
    him a couple times a month.  Talking to him wasn't the same as spending
    time, as it was never really worth getting all excited about him for a
    few min conversation.  It got to the point that it hurt her **SO** much
    to say goodby to Daddy, that she didn't want to see him at ALL.  BUT
    then she felt guilty about not wanting to see him, because she really
    did love him.  THEN she got mad at him because "he left".  Then she
    felt bad that she was mad because she saw so little of him she didn't
    want to be MAD at him.  But damnit, she was!  THEN she tried to talk to
    him about it, and he (thinking he was helping) told her how sad he was
    that he couldn't see her more, and he loved her, and that it's hard for
    him not to kiss her goodnight every night too etc etc.  So *THEN*, she
    started to feel bad for him ... "Gee, Daddy's all alone - he doesn't
    have anyone, at least I have Mommy.  I should be nicer to him!".  BUT
    she's still mad at him for leaving, so she was in direct conflict with
    herself the whole time.  This girl was 6/7.
    
    Eventually they got her into therapy, and it's helped some, but she
    still feels the full range of emotions.  She won't really talk to her
    dad, and when she does talk to him, it's in bits and pieces, and he has
    to DRAG it out of her what's bothering her.  And even then it's usually
    doctored up so as not to upset Dad so much.  
    
    I don't know if your daughter is going through any of these similar
    experiences or emotions (I forget how old she is), but this may help
    shed some light on it.
    
    For me personally, my parents separated when I was 9, divorced when 12. 
    Dad was hardly ever around.  I hated my MOTHER for driving him out, and
    felt terrible for my father.  He lived in a single dingy room, and we
    had this HUGE house, and my mother's VERY impossible to live with
    anyway.  After a few years of feeling sorry for him, I eventually
    almost hated him, for leaving "me".  I NEEDED a Daddy, and that was his
    job darn it - how could he walk away from it?!?  Now however, and
    learning more about the conditions of the divorce, I'm *SUPER* close
    with my dad, and my mom's still impossible to deal with.  And maybe all
    those painful years exaggerate those feelings somewhat.
    
    As for visitation, my mother never allowed us kids to see where my
    father lived, so the only time we saw him was when she would let him
    come to the house and visit us (5 kids).  We really never "went"
    anywhere with him till Jr High/High school when we were old enough to
    make our own decisions about things, more or less regardless of what my
    mother wanted.  
    
    If Dad is involved with another woman, perhaps your daughter feels
    replaced by this other woman.  It's hard enough to be "rejected" (Dad
    leaving), but when another female steps in, it can feel like a
    substitute.  Could she be fearing that Dad will start a NEW family and
    forget about his "old" family (her)??  
    
    I'm certainly not a pro on this, but I hope it may help some.  
    
    There are also many good books that discuss the post-divorce
    relationships between parents and children, and how they change, and
    some things to expect.  Check the library or your local bookstore.  
    
    And good luck!!
    Patty

    Ilona is 3, so it is difficult to know what's actually going on inside
    her head.
    
    I want to get her into therapy, but must work through legal channels
    due to the custody dispute my ex has raised in our ongoing divorce.  I
    believe I can get her into therapy this spring.  
    
    It may be that some of Ilona's seeming problems are just age related. 
    She is turning 3 1/2 which is supposed to be a difficult time in
    development.
    
    Thanks for all replies, any more input or handholding is very welcome.
    
    Laura

    Well, its been 3 weeks with Ilona having sleep problems almost every
    night.   She's been waking around 2:30-3:30 every night and having
    trouble getting back to sleep.  I'm wondering, is this within the
    normal range for a 3 1/2 year old child?  Can anyone tell me?
    She takes an hour, sometimes more, to go back to sleep.
    
    She's currently obsessed with monsters at night.  We chase 'em
    out, search to be sure they aren't lurking, and I reassure her I locked
    the door and will protect her.  I've read about this fear plenty so I
    know it is normal.  Tonight she went to sleep with her bedroom light on
    and the door shut.  But I hope she doesn't have divorce monsters as
    well as the usual sort.
    
    I used to let her get into bed with me, but she just laid there with
    her eyes open, eventually re-woke me.  Now I insist she stay in her own
    bed.
    
    I try to get her to urinate, figuring this might be the cause.  What a
    drag - she views it as a power struggle and it can take an hour before
    she'll go.  
    
    Sometimes she wants a snack.  (This usually after being awake for an
    hour.)  If she asks, or I'm desperate, I give her warm milk and toast.
    Only sometimes does she eat more than a few sips and bites.
    
    She'll often go back to sleep after urinating or having a snack.  But
    there's no pattern here.  Last night we ended up having a long, sad
    discussion about the divorce.  She opened up about her feelings for the
    most I've heard so far.  I hope this makes a difference in her sleep.
    I'm afraid this is the source of her difficulties.
    
    Sigh,,,
    L
    
    Needing some hugs myself.  

    Laura (hope I got that right),
    
    I can empathise with you.   
    
    I'm having a similar experience with Kathryn (3 yrs 9mths).  Until
    recently there were no problems, she'd go to bed OK and sleep right on
    through until 6.30/7am.  Of late, although I've not experienced any
    problems with getting her to bed, she does frequently awaken during the 
    night.
    
    Now, from what she tells me, she is experiencing 'bad dreams'..but is
    not always able to recall what they were, and then finds something to
    blame the dream on "It's my teddies, take them away..No, not that
    one..." or "I don't like the colours on my quilt" So, the teddies went,
    the quilt got changed.  We got to a point where we've been able to identify
    what she terms as a 'fly dream'...and that something is coming to get her.
       
    Until recently she has called to me from her bed and I have gone to
    her, talked with her in her room and she's calmed down reasonably
    quickly.   The other night (Monday) when it happened she said that she no 
    longer liked her bed and she wanted to come in Mum's bed.  I did not want
    to encourage this, so tried to talk with her to find out why.  It was the
    fly dream again...the flies were in her room.   
    
    I have a soft toy in my room - a koala bear.  So, I told her that the koala
    did not allow flies in the house and would she like to borrow him for
    the night, as he would make sure that the flies did not come.   Yep,
    she'd like that....and she snuggled happily down in bed with Koala, and
    I didn't hear another peep until 7.30am the following morning!
    
    Until last night, she's gone to bed happily and slept on through till
    7am - without Koala.  Until this morning when she presented herself in
    my room at 4am...wanting to chat! aagh!   ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.
    Maybe giving Ilona something of yours which will 'protect her' from the
    monsters might help?
    
    Your notes in this string have been useful, as I too am soon to go down
    the separation route (boy, that was difficult to type!) and have been 
    wondering if the 'discord' in our house has been causing Kathryn's sleep 
    to be disturbed.  
    
    Hope it gets better soon!
    
    Jackie  

    Laura,
    
    Jackie has hit on something here.  You are both right your kids are at
    the "monster" stage, and it doesn't go away for a while, if my kids are
    any example.  
    
    I have resorted to "magic" pajamas, a spray bottle full of "monster
    repellent", a pair of "monster tongs" (oversize barbecue tongs), and
    giving up talismans of varying varieties to the kids.  Usually one or a
    combination of some sort works.  They will settle down eventually.
    
    meg
    
    

    Ilona's pediatrician today reassured me that HE doesn't think these
    sleep problems are divorce-related.  At least, that's one less thing
    for me to feel guilty about.  ;-)
    
    A neighbor suggested I tell Ilona that they're FRIENDLY monsters. 
    Or that I give HER the power to dispel them somehow.  Magic toy sword,
    whatever.
    
    One dad sent me E-mail suggesting maybe she just doesn't need much
    sleep.  Aaagh.  That is too close to truth.  The child stopped napping
    while still a toddler, and NEVER gets more than 11.5 hours, usually
    only 10.  Sad, but true.  Maybe I should start her on video games to
    keep her busy at 3 a.m.  ;-)  Just kidding.
    
    Guess this discussion should revert to the Sleep Problems note, as it
    doesn't SEEM to be a divorce issue.  Except for poor Mom's feelings. 
    Of course, a child psychologist might think differently.  We'll see...
    
    Laura

    Dear Jackie,
    
    Sent you E-mail, doesn't seem to have gotten through.  Please feel free
    to contact me off-line about your personal situation.  Maybe I can be
    of some use, at least offer my support at a difficult time.
    
    Laura
    

    
    Thanks, Laura.
    
    Our system was out this weekend, will try to pop off a mail to you
    shortly.
    
    Jackie

    Halleluia, looks like we've got Ilona's sleep problems licked!  Please
    reference "Monsters" note for a description.
    
    Ilona dreamed about a witch monster last night, but it didn't disturb
    her sleep.  She reported it with little emotional affect this morning.
    
    Sorting out normal childhood problems, in all their wondrous variety,
    and divorce-related problems, is so much fun.  ;-)
    
    L

                     <<< Note 109.27 by CUPMK::STEINHART >>>
                             -< onward and upward >-

Hi Laura,

I've got an almost 4 year old with "monster" syndrome too.  Someone gave her
older brother a book called "Where the Wild Things Are" by Maurice Sendack (Sp?)

The book tells a story of a little boy who controls the monsters in his 
imagination.  I sometimes here my daughter saying "Be still" in the middle of
the night.

There is another book referenced in an earlier notes file about a monster who
was afraid of the little boy under his bed. (If you need more info, I've seen
it advertised in Right Start Catalog).

Maybe you won't need these because Ilona is a sound sleeper now.....

Rochelle

Elise is also at the monsters and "noises" stage which
is getting me up every night.

We found one tactic that worked very well was to imagine
a "closet monster" who's job it is to take care of Elise's
closet. He doesn't let any bad monsters in her room. 

His name is Gregor, and he loves to count her shoes.  
His mommy's name is Sally, and she lives in Grammy's closet.

Pat

The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.  If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
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      Carol duBois, PARENTING Co-moderator

**************************************************************


    A friend of mind has been separated from her husband for just a 
    couple of weeks now.  It was fairly obvious to those of us around 
    that this would happen, but a surprise to her kids.

    The problem is the reaction she is getting from her 4 (almost 5) 
    year old son.  He is REALLY acting out.  Doesn't want to eat, or 
    wants something different than mom cooks... Clings dearly to mom, 
    and doesn't want to go to (morning) preschool anymore...  Runs wild 
    around the house, and ignores rules he followed before, etc.

    They've been to a child phychologist one time, so far.  He said this 
    is one of the toughest ages for a kid to have his parents split up.  
    He added that her son is reacting out of anger, and she should let 
    him vent.  He also said there were ways to deal with it but, "oops... 
    look, we've run out of time" (so she never found out what they were).

    She's about at her wits end.  If she reacts every time he misbehaves, 
    he spends all day in time-out.  If she DOESN'T react to one thing, he 
    pushes it further.

    I'm also not sure how to deal with this.  My son is friends with this 
    boy.  Now, my son doesn't understand why his friend doesn't want to 
    come play...  or...  is mean when my son goes over there to visit.

    If anyone else has been through a similar situation, and has some 
    advice, either how my friend can deal with her son, or how I can 
    deal with my son's friendship with him, it would be appreciated.

    My husband and I separated in November. My younger son is 4, and had a
    very tough time the first month in particular.  He and I would battle
    every night over the smallest things. What finally came out (hindsight
    is everything) was that in his mind, he was testing with me what it
    meant to fight and then still be together, since his father and I had
    explained that sometimes when adults fight all the time, it's better
    not to be together.
    
    So, my hindsight observations of what has worked:
    	-consistent adherence to routine (bedtime, meals, going to 
    	  preschool and sitter) - no matter what
    	- extra cuddles and reading time (sometimes in the morning too!)
    	-regular visits with his Dad, and phone calls with his Dad every
    	  day
    	
    As much as possible I try not to react to his outbursts, which are
    diminishing in frequency now. The more calm I am, the more he settles
    down.
    
    What has been helpful for me to remember is that a 4 yr. old is still
    very much in their mother's energy sphere, and so will react to this
    kind of family change pretty strongly. My 7 yr. old, on the other hand,
    is [somewhat] more independent since he's already had the separation
    that comes from school etc., and is handling the change very
    differently.
    
    best of luck,
    

    
    Well, he's not 4, but Jonathan (2) has been through his father coming
    and going several times.  One thing that I noticed has helped him
    TREMENDOUSLY, has been to hold tight to him, and rock him and tell him
    that NO MATTER WHAT, I would never leave him.  he and I would ALWAYS be
    together.  This was a little simpler, since Dad just 'walked', versus
    any sort of 'agreed' split, so I dealt with it more as a fear that I
    might walk out on him, too.
    
    Daycare was harder (especially since he's not great at words yet), but
    I make a POINT to tell him where I'm going, when I'll be back, and
    extra cuddles.  I always emphasize that it'll only be a "little while",
    and then I'll be back to get him.  I TRY to also talk about some things
    that we might do later on, or in a few days, to give him an idea that
    we do hold a future together. (unlike him and his father).
    
    As for the rules - I totally agree with .-1  He wants to see if HE'S
    bad, if you two are going to split up too.  He needs to re-establish
    his security with his family now being just the two(?) of you, versus
    his family when dad was there.
    
    His perception is probably something like "Daddy was a naughty boy, and
    now he's being sent away!  What if I'M naughty???"  Daycare issues
    always struck me as them feeling 'dumped' "Hey, maybe Dad is someplace
    like this!?", and that you're not returning. 
    
    It might also help for him to see where his dad is, if that's possible.
    Saying he's at Grandma's or an apt or whatever, is much better than
    just 'gone'.
    
    Good Luck!