Conference moira::parenting

See parenting_v3, notes 46 and 141.

If you need help accessing v3, see note 9.21 of this notesfile.

Best of luck.

Clay

    Thanks, I read the notes and I'll send a note to Joan. Albania's
    situations is very different than Romania. They recently closed the
    adoption program in Albania and are in the process of accepting into
    law a draft of adoption rules and regulations. Hopefully things will
    remain calm there. We are sending our documents to a woman working 
    for the Florence Crittenton League, who believes the country will
    be opening up at any moment...we hope! 
    
    The country had been fairly flexible about it's adoptions. We'll see
    what it is like when the new laws come into effect. 
    
    Cyn

    Cyn,
    
    I have friends who are adopting a baby from Albania.  They
    are scheduled to leave for Hungry in a couple of weeks.  The baby 
    they are adopting was brought out of Albania shortly after the
    president declared that there would be no more adoptions.  Somehow
    the agency that they are dealing with was able to get passports for
    the baby and his mother.  The mother has now returned to Albania and
    the baby is being cared for by a private family.
    
    Please contact me off line (Tolkin::Santamaria) if you would like more
    information.  
    
    Ginny

    Give me a ring as there is a Digital woman who has adopted from
    Albania.  I can give you her name and number.  She is very  happy with
    her daughter, found it didn't require a long stay. She had to come back
    through France, but I can't remember why at this time.  One key is to
    make sure all your paperwork and visas are in order.  
    
    Be prepared for an underweight child who might have some intestinal
    parasites or other diseases which we don't commonly see.  Tufts
    Floating Hospital in Boston specializes in treating children who come
    with the unusual.  I'm at 242-2587 or drop an e-mail.  

    Lucille Spera just gave me permission to list her as a resource 
    for Albania.  Her daughter is Mariana.  She went off last fall as I
    recall and had some adventures.  But I'm sure Lucille can do a beter
    job of filling anyone in on what it means to go into Albania and come
    out with a child.  

    I adopted a baby girl from Albania in October. Of course, the situation
    has changed since then so I'm not sure what I can tell you that will
    apply.
    
    I worked with a judge and an orphanage director in Tirane. There was no
    agency in place at the time to assist. Also, at the time, the American
    Embassy was not open for business and my daughter and I had to go to
    France to get her American Visa.
    
    Several others had adopted via the same channel before me and a few
    followed me before things appeared to close down.
    
    While I don't have any real data, I got the impression that there are
    not thousands of children available for adoption in Albania as there
    were in Romania. Also, I want to EMPHASIZE that there was not a large
    sum of money involved. Do be careful in dealing with people.
    
    I did spend a week in Tirane in October and can fill you in on my
    experience if you are interested.
    
    Food has been in short supply in Albania for quite a while. My child
    was born at 4.5 pounds and weighed less than 9 pounds at 5 months when
    I brought her home. You should expect some nutrition issues with your
    baby. By the way, my daughter has more than doubled her weight in the
    last 7 months.
     
    Are you in touch with any others who adopted from Albania ? I'm curious
    as to how you got connected and would love to chat if you have some
    time. 
    
    Good luck.

    By the way, you may want to talk with Kathy Kutrubes of Kutrubes Travel
    Agency...617-426-5668. She has been arranging travel into Albania for
    folks like myself as well as tourists and academicians. She is in touch
    with the official tourist agency, US based diplomats, etc. and may be
    able to give you an idea of what is happening in general in the
    country.

    Wow, lots of good information and contacts in here!! Thank
    you!!
    
    Ginny, I'll send you a note. I'd be interested in hearing about
    your friends who are leaving so soon and what they expect now that
    things have changed. 
    
    Thanks for the pointer to Tufts Floating Hospital. We'll make contact
    with them and arrange for a checkup the minute we come back with the
    baby. We've been warned and have read up on problems with low birth
    weight, parasites, hepititis... we'll be sure to have the baby 
    checked (notice I'm not able to say "my baby" yet! Too soon! Too 
    scary! Will it come through!!) as soon as we come back. The agency
    that we are dealing with supposedly sends formula and diapers over
    to the foster care providers, which, if it is true, will help with
    nutrition issue and the hepititis. 
    
    Thanks for the great information, Lucille, I will certainly contact
    you! Your experience will be very valuable! And thank you for the
    pointer to the travel agency, I'll call them and find out when and
    how the arrangements for travel are made. My father-in-law has offered
    to give us frequent flyer miles, but I think it requires some
    preparation time. We may not have much notice. 
    
    Yes, until about two months ago all exit visa were issued in France.
    An American Embassy just opened up, but the official signing the
    visas decided that she won't sign any more until the new adoption
    laws are in place. It looks like we won't have to travel through
    France, but not sure yet.
    
    The expense, well, it's more expensive going through an agency. Our
    primary agency, Lutheran Child and Family Services, sort of watches
    out for us, and will tell us if the fee charged is 'way out of line.
    I have gotten some reports on agency adoptions in Albania and it seems
    to be in the ballpark. 
    
    Lucille, did you bring your own food, formula, diapers, etc?
    
    Our connection is very shaky at this point and very round-about. We
    were contacted by Lutheran Child and Family Services. They were 
    contacted by a woman who adopted from Albania through World Child,
    Lutheran's international agency. She adopted last Thanksgiving (Alice
    Livthal). SHE was contacted by a friend, who knows the woman working for 
    the Florance Crittenton League. This woman, Pamela, was in the process 
    of arranging 8 adoptions, and suddenly found herself with a new baby boy 
    to arrange also. So she made phone calls to try to find a family. 
    We jumped at the chance, though it is risky since the government may 
    never open the doors. Whew! 
    
    Alice is friendly but I think she doesn't want to be "in the middle"
    of this arrangement so I've hesitated to bother her with phone calls
    and questions. But we are anxiously waiting for this Pamela to call
    us and give us more details. I may try to call her at her friend's
    house in Albania tomorrow (I guess it's an eight hour difference?).
    
    Cyn

    Romania was a 7 hour time difference, as I recall.  CAlling can be
    EXTREMELY frustrating.  Redial is a valuable option, but then be
    prepared for poor connections and lost lines.  
    
    These times can be off the scale when it comes to stress.  Take
    advantage of talking in person to any of us who have gotten babies out
    of that part of the world.  Having a strong support system is very
    important.  This is not like doing Korean or Latin American adoption.  
    
    Remember to assume that anything that you may need for yourselves or
    the baby will not be available there.  That includes food, formula,
    diapers, clothes, medicines.  Remember too that news reports has
    Albania being in a state of near- if not complete anarchy.  Doesn't
    make for a good food supply.  If you have to stay, pack some peanut
    butter and crackers so that you won't starve.  I always joked about the
    Romanian adoption diet.  There's probably the Albanian version too.  
    If you  need to lose pounds, just watch them come off by the stress
    you're in now and what you may get further down the line.  
    
    Hang in and it will all come out -- times may vary, babies may even be
    different than what you think you're starting with.  Lean on the rest
    of us in the meantime.     

    Well, it looks like Albania is off. We got a call this morning. 
    Seems the official signing the documents quits his job as of next 
    Tuesday. So if we are willing to fly over this week-end to deliver
    our documents by Monday morning, they will get his stamp. But the
    baby could come out of the country in one month, two months, ten
    months...depending on when the new laws go into effect. Our documents
    won't be ready until next week, and I don't feel good about this
    process at this point. 
    
    Oh well. Thanks for the supportive notes and the excellent information.
    If the program opens there again we still may have a chance to apply
    to Albania. I'll let you know.
    
    Cyn

    I'm sorry.
    
    I have heard that the overall situation in the country is improving.
    Maybe the gov't will stabilize soon. 
    
    When you documents are ready, why not try to fax them over...just in
    case a window opens somewhere. Actually, DHL (or is it DLH) had an
    office in Tirane so you ought to be able to get documents into the
    country without too much trouble.
    
    It is tough when an established agency is not in place to help with
    things. 
    
    Good luck.

    It is DHL.  I concur with Lucille -- send your stuff straight away just
    in case.  What I'd do too is keep working the Albanian connections, as
    you've started.  You'll learn more than you ever thought you'd ever
    could about an interesting part ofthe world, and in the process, when
    things change, you can be first out of the gate.  

    Well, funny you should mention FAXing our documents...we got a call
    at 4:30 (YAWN!) on Sunday morning from Tirane. Pamela said to fax
    everything to her that minute (luckily we have a fax machine at home)
    and she would attempt to get the official to sign off on the fax
    copies. So hey, why not? We sat for two+ hours faxing 25 pages (lose
    the line every two pages). Can't wait to see THAT phone bill!
    
    We're more calm about this, now. If it does work out, that would be
    wonderful, but it is not very likely, I think. It's worth the try,
    though. Everyone I've spoken to there so far has been very helpful
    and nice (maybe you know Macksim Dinga (Zigna?), spoke to him on 
    Sunday, could have the spelling of his name wrong, got two different 
    versions!). 
    
    So we'll see what happens.
    
    Cyn (never a dull moment!)

    My wife and I are considering adoption.
    In Israel (way in the Middle-East, where be are both citizens and
    residents), adoption must go through a (single) government agency.
    As there are very few newly-born babies, the waiting-time is about
    6 years (older children (> 2 years old) are easier, but we do prefer
    a newly-born for the time being).
    
    The government agency doesn't give much help in adoption abroad (only
    a home-study and a couple of misspelled contact in few countries).
    To save time, we are looking into the possibility of adoption in
    various countries. Obviously, western countries are out due to the fact
    that babies are as hard to find as in Israel, or more so not being a
    citizen or a resident. Also, various Islamic countries are closed to us
    being Israelis. We are currently focusing on Hungary (Chile and
    Colombia are next).
    
    We would appreciate any information as to:
    -	Contacts of agencies in the said countries
    -	Tales of people who have gone through adoption in those countries
    -	Any knowledge of procedures and/or costs in those countries
    -	Suggestions of other countries in which adoption is either simple,
    	fast, or cheap.
    -	Any other help.
    
    Answers may be posted here, or mailed to me at TAVENG::URBACH .
    
    	Thanx,
    		Shlomo Urbach
    
P.S. :   
    	Obviously, agencies in the U.S. are not much use for us.
    
    	Yes, I have read all the notes in this notes-file and in
    	PARENTING_V3 (Rommania, Albania etc.).
    
    	I do wish to be a member of the adoption-related notesfile, but I
    	dont seem to get contact with Laura Erving. Can anyone help?

I'm not sure what the legal requirements are (re: citizenship, residency, etc.)
in getting "approved" (e.g. homestudy) "to" adopt (within the US or
internationally).  In other words, your approval to adopt (homestudy) might
have to issue from the country that you are citizens in (I could be all washed
up on this ... but "I" see it as something you might want to verify).  Most
adoption agencies will give you the requirements "over the phone" at no cost.

Many children (newborns, toddlers, older children) available for adoption
HERE IN THE U.S. are of foreign descent ... and many are multi-cultural
(mixed race).  Most large adoption agencies (e.g. Lutheran Family Services
and many of the private agencies) do deal with foreign adoptions - in fact,
some agencies specialize in just a particular country.

MARES (Massachusetts Adoption Resource Exchange) is an excellent resource.
If you need a "contact", please let me know.  Membership is $15/year and
they give you ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION.  They are one of the most dynamic
adoption resource I know of!  (They sponsor an Adoption Conference every
May in Milford, MA where you not only select the 45 min. seminars/workshops
you want to attend, but many, many adoption agencies have booths and
pamphlets about the "countries" they pursue, as well as the information
around cost and timeframes.

Here in the U.S., the average waiting period for a newborn is still 5-6 years,
however, I have known of many people who have received their baby within
3-5 years following their homestudy approval.  With "open adoption"
(identified), you can usually get your baby sooner ... providing your lucky
enough to have the "networking" resources to "find" your baby for you.
Juli came to us through a friend of a friend of a friend of our neighbor's.
Our second newborn (scheduled for September) is coming through Jim's counsin's
neighbor's niece.  Although both our adoptions are "open" (identified), our
agency and attorney has been advised to try and maintain confidentially, that
no contact be made after placement (although Juli's mother did break the
agreement several times -- you just find ways to get through it, and I now
believe it made me a better, more compassionate, understanding and less intimated
person ... although  it still remains my desire that both our children have
no direct contact with their bio parents until the children are old enough to
decide whether or not it's something THEY want to pursue ... and then Jim/I
will support whatever they decide).

Although the waiting period for newborns seems like eternity ... the time does
have a way of "flying by".  And it also gives you time to save that much needed
"fee" ($20-25K per newborn!).

Nick Cappello (and Jan) adopted their first child, a newborn (son) from Colombia 
about 13 years ago ... and although their newborn daughter was a U.S. adoption,
I believe she is of non-white (or mixed) culture.  They then went on to adopt 
a young sister/brother from Peru.  I believe they used the same adoption 
agency for all 4 children (can't think of it's name - located in Waltham, MA).  
Do contact Nick ... he's GREAT!  Nick/Jan were our mentors as we entered 
(and survived!) the adoption process.

Steve Resende is another DECie who adopted (I believe) a U.S. baby.

Our daughter was a U.S. baby, who's 1/8 black, 1/8 white, 1/4 Cherokee Indian
and 1/2 Irish ... when people ask me "what is she?" I say "a most beautiful
little girl".  (People have a real tough time figuring out Juli's heritage
... except now her summer tan really enhances that 1/8th black in her!)

Another resource is contacts through your religious clergy (or parishoners).
Doctors are another good resource.

Good luck and please call on me if I can be of any help ... even if just a
shoulder to lean on.

Dottie

PS:  Jim/I did not make it to the MARES Adoption Conference this past May.
     Sure hope to be there next year!

    Hi Shlomo.
    
    We're still working on our adoption from Albania. I know that things
    are changing there, and after this month, there will probably be a 
    new adoption system in place. But perhaps it will still be a source
    for you. I'm not sure who you could talk to there, but there is a
    woman that works for an agency here in Mass. who might be able to
    help you. She lives in Romania, but goes back and forth to Albania
    while working on the adoptions. General costs are around $10,000 - 
    $12,000 (foreign adoption is expensive). I will check with her and
    see if I can pass her name on to you. 
    
    A source we learned about for Jewish children is an adoption
    agency in Lebanon. It is VERY expensive, around $20,000, I believe. 
    I'll try to get the name of the agency and you could call them
    yourself. They have both Jewish and Christian children. 
    
    We attended a presentation on Eastern European adoptions a few weeks
    ago. Hungary and Bulgaria are good sources for children, since they
    are well taken care of. But they tend to be a bit older, around 2 1/2+.
    Russia is a possibility for infants; my agency (Lutheran Child and 
    Family Services) is starting a program there. Maybe it would be helpful
    to call an American agency and see if they can help get you some 
    information. I can recommend Susan Colwell at the Lutheran Child and
    Family Services in Worcester, Mass. to talk with; she is extremely
    helpful. Her number is: (508) 791-4488. Perhaps she will have some
    ideas of what you can do to pursue other countries. Ask her about the
    Lebanon agency, maybe she can give you the name and number. 
    
    As for fast and cheap, well, for us here, international adoption is
    not cheap. Most programs, are between $6,000 and $20,000, depending on
    the country. As for fast, through my agency they expect you will have
    your first child assignment no later than 18 months. That doesn't mean
    you have a child then, but you are assigned a child, get a picture,
    etc. Many have it happen before that. It depends on what kind of child
    you are comfortable with. South American programs (Chili, Peru,
    Colombia etc) have been around for quite a while, so they can go
    faster, since they are more organized. 
    
    Our adoption may happen very quickly compared to this, but it is a
    high-risk one in terms of whether it will actually happen! Very very
    nerve-wracking!!
    
    Good luck. I'd like to hear more about your search. I'm surprised there
    isn't more help there for you. 
    
    Cyn

    Cyn,
    
    Glad to hear your adoption is still on. I spoke with my Albania contact
    on Memorial Day and she was skeptical (but then I expected her to be).
    It seems the new government is purging the communist bureaucrats and
    lots of people expect to lose their jobs. I would expect that, in such
    a climate, much is uncertain. She also mentioned the wait for new
    adoption laws.
    
    I heard from another source that the infant orphanage in Tirane was
    going to be closed and the children moved. Seems the new government is
    returning property to people from whom it was confiscated by
    communists. Personally, it sounds like a republican form of democracy
    that displaces orphans.
     
    Since it is becoming clear to me that my daughter wants a playmate, I
    keep wondering about that second adoption. Where was/who sposored the
    session on Eastern European adoption which you just attended ?
    
    Also, off line, I am willing to talk about the name of a contact I have
    in Brazil. I don't have a lot of info but for folks who are looking and
    willing to break ground it may be worth a letter to Brazil.
    

    Hi Lucille.
    
    We attended a meeting given by Mary Chamberlain, who works for Lutheran
    World Child. We heard about it via Susan Colwell, who is our contact
    at Worcester Lutheran Child and Family Services, where we did our
    homestudy (an excellent agency).
    
    Yes, I've heard many officials in Albania are being replaced at this time. 
    Judges in particular, which should help with the adoption process, since 
    there were some reported problems, I understand, with judges who
    changed their
    rules depending on fees provided (!). Did you see the current National
    Geographic's article on Albania? Pretty interesting. 
    
    We are attempting to be allowed to adopted under a "grandfather
    clause" that was to be voted on along with the new adoption laws. It
    states that those couples who were approved under the old process, and
    have identified babies should be allowed to adopt immediately. That's
    what we are waiting for. Any further adoptions will be done under the
    new laws. So if they don't vote in favor of the grandfather clause, the
    whole thing will probably fall through. 
    
    Thanks for the offer of information on Brazil. I'd be interested in 
    chatting with you about it if we have some negative results from this 
    venture. We'll have to decide what our next approach is. We will probably 
    go with World Child and pursue an adoption from South American, China or 
    Russia. But we're going to give the current situation until the end of 
    August before we review our options. The babies will still only be 4 months
    at that time, so we will probably hold on if things look possible.
    Waiting is soooooo tough as you can imagine!!!
    
    Cyn

    An update on our adoption process: we are still waiting. Not a very
    positive update, but at least it hasn't fallen through. The government
    may be issuing a proclamation allowing the couples who have already
    been approved to adopt their babies before the regular law goes into
    effect. We're hoping that proclamation will be issued within the next
    few weeks. But we don't know any more than that. It's very difficult
    to wait and wonder when this will happen. We are still adopting a baby
    boy, but it may be a different boy than the one that was born at the
    end of April. In fact, all we know is that we are getting a boy. Don't
    know age, name, anything. Crazy! 
    
    Cyn

    My wife and I adopted our daughter Juliana from Romania in June of
    1991.  We were among the last to leave the country before the doors
    closed. Ever since the doors closed to private adoptions, there have
    only been a hand full of children adopted through the 5 or 6 agencies
    that are authorized by the Romanian government.  I had heard rumors
    that the private adoptions were going to begin again and that there
    were going to be more agencies added to the list of 5 or 6. This
    apparently is not going to happen.  A Romainan adoption support group
    that we belong to from Vermont has just returned from Romania where
    they provided releif efforts to 3 orphanges.  They also met with the
    Ministers of Healh and Adoptions.  They were told that private
    adoptions will not be allowed and no other agencies have been
    identified.  All of the children must remain in the orphange for up to
    a year while Romanian homes are sought.  
    
    While conditions in one of the orphanges the group went to have improved
    the other have gotton worst.  This reflets what is happening throughout
    the entire country where inflation has skyrocketed and living
    conditions have deteriorated.  One orphange that is able to care for 50
    children had 75 and just received 10 newborns.
    
    This is breaking our hearts for we want Juliana to have a sibling,
    someone who she can share her heritage with.  It is killing me to think
    that these children have to stay in a orphange for at least 6-12
    months. Why is this so? Is it politics? Perhaps Romania does not want
    the world to again see that it can't take of it's own children.  There
    has to be a way to match up these children with people who desparely
    want them. 
    
    The whole Romanian story began with a spot on 20/20 and ended shortly
    after 60 minutes.  20/20 will be doing another story in Feb/March.
    Perhaps this will open the doors so that the estimated 120,000 "lost"
    children can be found.  I have also read that it may take another
    revolution to get the change that the people of Romaina really need.
    Even though the wall has fallen and "communism" overthrown, Romania
    still has the same rulers in charge and most aspects of everyday life
    is controlled. 
    
    There isn't a day that goes by when I don't think about the little boy
    we left behind along with all the other children.  I hope and pray that
    the doors open up again so that even a few of the children can be
    found.  Until then we will continue to collect medical supplies and
    clothes and toys.  I may go over in July to help deliver them.  
    
    Please note any news that you may have heard regarding adoptions in
    Easten Europe and the ex USSR.  We are currently looking into adopting
    from the Ukrane since Romaina is closed. 
    
    Pat 

            
                          




    It is again possible to privately adopt in Romania.  The doors had
    been closed to AMERICAN private adoptions since late summer of 1991.
    Unfortunately very few children have been adopted via the 7 US agencies
    certified to do Romanian adoptions. 
    
    
    Various parent support groups throughout the US have created
    information packets designed to inform and educate prospective parents.
    Their interests is in seeing that people do responsible, informed,
    adoptions so there will be less risk of overwhelming the system with
    unprepared people which would likely result in another shutdown as in
    1991. For information, please contact me via vaxmail at UNYEM::CANALE
    or call me at home after 8pm eastern  315-492-0722
      or feel free to write me at:
    Pat Canale  5839 Independence Dr.  Jamesville, NY  13078.  
    Whatever is easiest.
    
    My wife and I spent 6 weeks in Romania in 6/91 adopting our
    1st daughter and returned in 9/93 to adopt our 2nd daughter who was
    only the 5th child to be privately adopted by an American in 1993.  
    We have helped quite a few couples recently. In fact one couple flew
    out this past weekend.  1994 will be a year in which many orphans
    will find a home but only if the new laws are understood and followed,
    both here in the states and over in Romania.
    
    Thanks,
                                                                          
    Pat 
    

    My cousin is interested in adopting from Romania, but she
    is afraid that it would be too expensive. Can you give some
    information on about how much it costs to adopt a child from
    Romania (total cost, travel ...)
    Thanks
    Carol

Bethany Christan Services is licensed by the Albanian Government
to handle US adoptions from Albania. They have established group
homes in the country and have successfully completed a few adoptions.

More info on the web at http://www.bethany.org

Meanwhile, I am going to adopt a baby from Moldova.