Conference moira::parenting

    
    How old is your daughter?  Because usually when they first start
    crawling or walking they loose alot of their weight from running around
    alot.  At my daughter's daycare there is a baby who is 6 months old and
    I think she weighs 20lbs. maybe more.  She looks so cute, though, her
    mother isn't worried at all.  Your daughter is not overweight by all
    means.  Mine is 25th for her weight and 75th for her height.
    

    My daughthere also happens to be in the 25th percentile for weight and
    75th for height. I am not one bit concerned when people comment "she is
    little." I just wonder in comparison to what!! She eats well and is a
    healthy child and that's important to me. Her visits with the
    Pediatrician are all very positive. Every childs' phsyical makeup will
    be different.
    
    

    I used to hate trying to explain that Russell was big for his age. 
    People always assumed that "big" = "fat".  Well, for about the first 8
    months of his life, Russell was in the 95% for weight, BUT he was also
    either 95% or totally off the charts for height!  He's still way off
    the charts for height and in the 75th for weight at 20 months. He is
    NOT fat.  He is a well proportioned toddler who happens to look closer
    to 2+ than 1 1/2. He is healthy and happy and that is what is
    important.

    marianne 

    Alex seemed to be thrilled with the new spring windbreaker I got her--
    she loved the colors, the pocket locations, the drawstring stopper
    thingies... but she still appeared reticent to wear it.  Finally she
    complained that it makes her look *fat*!  I was stunned.  This kiddo is
    48" and 49#, hardly overweight (I wish I had her metabolism).  We
    solved the immediate problem by cinching in the waist drawstring, but
    the whole conversation raised a red flag for me to be careful about
    body-image discussions.
    
    She also told me recently that her haircut (kinda "Christopher
    Robin"-ish) doesn't go with dresses.  Period.  I offered to flip
    through my as-yet-unread "Vogue" mag with her, guaranteeing there would
    be cropped hair with gorgeous dresses--no dice.  Finally I had to
    conclude aloud that she would outgrow her dresses before her hair met
    her satisfaction, so I should probably sell the dresses now... she came
    around.
    
    Yes, the weight fixation is very distressing...
    Leslie

Do we project our *own* obsessions onto our kids?  I'm the youngest of three
daughters and have quite a different build from my two older sisters.  >(They
both take after my father's mother, a petite Polish woman, whereas I take after
my mother's mother, a strong Irish woman!)  Incidentally, my husband's 
grandfather,  who made the comment, has a waist measurement that almost equals 
his height.

My daughter is 21 months.  (The 50% percentile figure was as of her 15 month
checkup.)  If I remember correctly, she's 32-1/2 inches tall and 27 pounds.

ann

    Our pedi does not bother to discuss percentiles unless she is concerned
    as they do not mean much. She makes sure that our daughter is healthy
    and growing well. She will tell us if we ask or just shows us the
    chart. We have a lean machine as the pedi calls her - Avanti is taller
    than an average 3 year old girl and is probably around 50th percentile
    for weight. But with the amount of running around she does and all the
    physical activity at daycare probably uses up all those intake calories
    (SIGH! now if only I could be that way - I was always on the BIG side
    since birth).
    
    Shaila
    

    re: .0 & .5
    
    Your daughter is almost the exact same height and weight as my son
    (he's 21 months, 33" tall and 27 lbs.) and I think he's more on the
    thin side than heavy side.  I can't understand why anyone would say
    she's fat.  Tell him to mind his own business!
    
    Lori B.

Some of us are old enough to remember when fat babies were healthy babies and 
parents of thin babies were negligent because they didn't feed their babies 
enough. 

Clay 

    It seems that many people say the first thing that comes to mind when
    they see a child for the first time - like she's cute, little, fat, so
    tall, etc. or similar for a boy. Why do we focus so much on these
    obvious physical attributes?   I'm intrigued by this note.
    
    Actually I'm surprised to read about so many comments about children
    who are tall for their age.  I understand how uncomfortable the remarks
    can make you feel.  My daughter is very tiny - small parents in this
    case. She is very active and healthy, eats all homecooked food, etc.  but
    because she is so small - about 30" and 20 lbs at 20 months, people
    always remark about her size before they say anything else.  As much as
    I thought I could handle it, it is beginning to get to me.
    
    The toughest ones are other parents - friends - who bring their kids
    over to play.  They'll say - oh look, Sara is only 15 months old and
    she's so much bigger than Ellen already.  So what?!?  It just bothers
    me to have to begin every get-together by saying, yes, she's small for
    her age.  But she's perfectly normal!
    
    I hope as the children get older that people get more creative about
    what they say. 
    
    
    Oh well,
    Mary 
    

    
    My daughter has always been in the 50% percentile for weight, sometimes
    reaching 95%.  Her height was always the same above average.  I wonder 
    about these percentiles, where do they come from, from what year.  A 
    child born 20, even 10 years ago were not as healthy as our children
    and thus were smaller.  I was always proud to say that my daughter was
    in the 50%+ percentile, I can't for the life of me explain way, but it
    equated to healthy to me, NOT FAT.  
    
    On the other side, in my daughter's daycare she her favorite playmate
    is very petite.  She takes after her mom.  But don't let size fool you
    she is bright, clever, funny and very physical!  She has an older
    brother and puts him in his place when ever needed.  I don't think of
    her as skinny but rather a little dynamo!  
    
    I think we have to re-educate people about what should be common sense.
    (On the same subject, the dr's tell you when your child is due, on the
    average every pregnancy is 40 weeks (not sure if I have that right), of
    all the people I know in my family and friends - well, we all fall over
    the average, unless problems arose.)
    
    Rose Marie

    
    Well my youngest daughter, Kelsey, is a happy and healthy 32 12" / 26 1/2 
    lb. at her 15 month checkup.  This supposedly places her in the 95% for 
    height and 100% for weight, and I am not a bit concerned (as well as the
    doctor...he calls her the bruiser).
    
    People often comment on her size, especially since both my husband and
    I are very average in size.  My oldest daughter (2 1/2) is only 1/2 lb.
    heavier at 36" / 27 lb., so it almost looks like they are the same age.
    We have no idea where her "big" genes come from, but I know she really
    loves to eat!  She generally cleans her plate, then tries to eat the
    scraps off everyone elses plates.  She is also VERY active, so she may
    eventually slim down a little.
    
    Sometimes the comments bother me, but just one look at those chubby
    cheeks makes my heart melt, and I can't help but smile.  I think all
    children are beautiful, no matter what their size!  I just try to keep
    my children very active in the hopes that they won't have weight
    problems in their later years.
                                  

   re: .10 

>>    I think we have to re-educate people about what should be common sense.

   Ahh... therein lies the dig... common sense simply isn't!
   
   But then, I digress... now back to our normally scheduled note.. :-)
   
   - Tom

    Wasn't there a comment in another topic (about "wait until your
    child turns age X") where someone suggested that these comments
    are just conversational in nature and are not always judgemental?
    
    I can see this might be the case with some people's comments about
    the size of a child they see or when comparing them to another. In 
    a lot of cases I do not perceive these comments as "There is something
    not normal with this child" but rather "she has brown hair and he 
    has black hair" kind of comments.
    
    Although, I will agree our image concious society has put a lot of
    expectations on ourselves and our kids. When my god-daughter  started
    worrying about how "fat" she was (she's barely 50 lbs at 10 years) I
    was stunned too! 
    
    I STILL think chubby babies are great (and tiny babies, and tall
    babies and.....)
    
    Monica

    I get alot of comments on my baby, she is 6 mos old and is 25 1/2
    inches and 18lbs 8 oz.  I have to admit she is FAT.  But I agree that
    peoples first reaction of "wow is she fat" is an opening conversational
    piece. It only bothers me occasionally.
    
    I don't worry about her weight because I know when she starts walking
    and running she will thin out.
    
    My doctor also tells me not be be concerned even though she is at the
    top of the weight scale.
    
    Angie

Add me to the list of those that are bothered by what appears to be people's
insensitive remarks.

Several times over the last couple of months people (after asking the age
of my daughter) have said "Boy she sure is big".  Now I knew (or thought)
that she was maybe a little taller than average, but also much thinner than
average.  So I couldn't understand why people were making the comments.  

Well, she just had her 2 year check-up and is right at 50% for both height
and weight.  So I am no longer worried (wasn't really in the first place)
about her being (or getting) fat.

But the comments still bother me and I am trying to ask myself why.  I think
it has to do with the emphasis society still places on being thin.  Like
someone else said, no wonder so many people have eating disorders.

re: .15

>Several times over the last couple of months people (after asking the age
>of my daughter) have said "Boy she sure is big".  Now I knew (or thought)
>that she was maybe a little taller than average, but also much thinner than
>average.  So I couldn't understand why people were making the comments.  

To me, particularly for a standing toddler, "big" means "tall" more 
than "fat".  Perhaps that's what was intended.  Often when parents are making 
small talk about their own children, they love to talk about how their kids 
are growing, so people think that saying "Boy, she sure is big" is making a 
positive statement.  But thanks for the warning, I'll be more careful in the 
future.

Clay

    
    My neighbors have a beautiful little girl, however she's is as tall
    as my seven year old - okay, Sam is no giant! - and she is only three
    and 1/2!  I know her folks have stopped using the word 'big' around 
    her because they are afraid to give Kate a complex.  Just about
    everyone comments on what a 'big' girl she is, since I've become
    more intuned to her folks fears I alway try to use another word when
    talking to Kate "Oh Kate what a grown up girl your getting to be." etc.
    
    Another draw back I see is that people expect Kate to be 5-6-7 years
    old, she's only 3-1/2 and acts, talks etc. as a 3-1/2 year old.  At 
    time you can see the 'dirty' looks when we're out in public - the park
    or the store - when this 'big' girl talks and acts like a three year
    old.  You can just hear the thoughts going through others heads "Boy,
    is that kid out of control she's acting/talking like a baby!"  At times
    I want to scream "She's only 3!!!!"  And this is all over my neighbors
    child I can imagine what I'd feel like if I had to deal with this every
    day!!!!
    
    Just like in all aspects of life, it would be nice if people gave each
    other the 'benefit' of the doubt' and didn't assume to much about any
    situation they encounter in public......but we're human, not perfect!
    
    Just my 2 cents worth.....
    
    Kathy

    re:17
    
    I can relate to that. I was always BIG for my age. In Bombay (india)
    kids under the age of 2 get to ride free on the bus (public
    transportation). My mother would tell me how when I was not even 1 year
    old she would be asked to buy my ticket and when I was not even 7 I had
    to buy a full fare ticket (only for those above 12 years of age). Then
    when I was 11 my mother used to get asked what college I attended and
    when she would say that I was in the 7th grade she would get a wierd
    look. I was 5' 7" at age 11 and was always (all through school) the
    tallest and the largest one in class. I always got to sit at the back
    of the class. I had a rough time playing with kids my own age since I
    was so much bigger and people made sure I was aware of it. Not until I
    got into college that I started feeling normal since the boys started
    catching up in size :-)
    
    My mother hated it when people would comment on my size or height. I
    used to have a slump (not an upright posture) since I was conscious
    about my size - not to mention that my best friend was only 4'10" and
    never grew taller. Neighbors and friends constantly asked to walk
    straight - I could just punch them. I think I completely outgrew my
    self-conscious feeling when I moved to the USA since being 5'8.5" tall
    is very close to average for women.
    
    I wish people did not comment on my size so much that I did not have
    too many friends - being perceived as a giant of sorts.
    
    Shaila

Oh, yes, being big or tall can certainly confuse the age question.  A friend of
ours' son was a large baby.  When he was 3 months old he was well over 25 pounds,
and of course couldn't sit up yet.  She was constantly fending off comments from
people that she should take him to specialists - he obviously should be sitting
and crawling at his age.  (For some perspective, my 50th percentile daughter is 
25 pounds at 17 months).

And, from personal experience, having achieved 5'6" at 10 years old, it can be
difficult when people make assumptions about your age.  It used to drive my
parents crazy that I would be approached by college age guys when I was only
14.  And me being a teenager, I of course felt I was mature enough to go out
with them.  (While at the same time the little girl part of me was grateful
my parents didn't let me).

When I was a kid, you had to pay adult admission to the movies when you 
reached 12.  I started paying adult admission when my voice changed, 
especially at drive-ins when I was driving the car.

Clay
(MUCH older than 10, but not yet 5'6")

I'd like to share another perspective on the weight and height scale the 
doctors use.  I have always looked at it as a way to measure how my daughter 
is growing in comparison to herself.  I think this chart is more importantly 
used for this purpose rather than comparing how she is doing against other 
children.  

The chart was probably derived from a random survey to get very 'rough' 
averages.  The child's development is plotted on this chart to determine if 
there are any 'drastic' changes in the child's growth which could raise a flag 
for possible concern.  Don't forget, head circumference is also measured not to
determine if the child has a 'fat' or 'skinny' head but to rule out any abnormal
growth rates.

My 17 month old daughter has always been in the 90% for both height and weight 
which only shows me and the doctors that she has been developing at her normal 
rate.  

Just like pregnant women, parents with children draw all kinds of unsolicited 
comments.  The less emphasis the parents place on these comments, the better 
for both the child and the parent.  If I had to guess, I'd say a child is going
to pick up more quickly on his/her parent's reaction in such a case rather than
the unsolicited commentor.  

To the original noter, I'm usually not very quick on my feet when confronted
with these types of situations so I ignore them.  I like what you said and will 
use it next time I'm in a similar situation.  It was quick, to the point, made
little impact from the child's perspective and "shut him right up!"

D.

    
    I think some people make comments just to make them. My 21 month old
    is, now how should I say this, "small", well, much smaller than his
    brother was at the same age.  Tanner is about 21lbs and I'm not sure of
    his height, but compared to what Spencer was, he is smaller.  (he wears
    24 month size clothes, 2T's still need to be rolled up, and some hang)
    People will look at him and say "Wow, he's a big boy for his age!"
    If they think he's big, they must think Spencer is colosal (sp?)!!!
    
    I ignore most comments.....
    

    
    During the first visit to the Pediatrician when my daughter was a month
    old, the doctor told me that my daughter was FAT -- She had gone from
    7 lbs 11 oz to somewhere around 11 pounds.  And this doctor told me to
    stop feeding her (I was breast feeding) every two hours, to try to give
    her water and push the feedings out to every four hours.  She drilled
    it into me that if I kept it up, I have an obese child on my hands when
    she got older.  Well, you can imagine how I felt when I left her
    office!!  
    
    That night, I tried to go four hours to the next feeding, but Stephanie
    was screaming. I tried to give her water & she wouldn't take it --- it
    was hell to put her through this, so I said "the H*ll with this, I'm
    feeding her, I don't care what the doctor says".  THEN I picked up a
    Dr. Spock book which states to feed a child when he/she is hungry,
    don't try to put them on a schedule.  
    
    Needless to say, I never went back to that Pediatrician (and have heard
    that she no longer practices).  At our next visit to a different
    doctor, I mentioned what had happened at the last visit.  This doctor
    said that the other pedi probably did not take into account my
    daughter's height --- she is and was in the 98th percentile for her
    height and her weight.  She said that if you just looked at her weight,
    then yes she would be considered "overweight" for her age, but when you
    consider her height, then she is "perfect".  
    
    My daughter is now 6 years old and is taller than most of her friends,
    and is in some cases taller than some 7 year olds, and she is slender. 
    My daughter always gains weight in the winter, but then thins out in
    the summer time due to the outdoors activities, but I have never been
    warned about her weight (since the first incident), so I don't worry
    about it -- she's healthy thats all I care about!!
    
    Debby
    

    Weight is just one part of the equation.  My son is skinny --
    29 lbs. and 37 inches tall at 4 years old!  So he is small for
    his age.  however, my husband is only 5'9" and I'm 5'2".  There
    isn't much height on either side of the family.  
    
    I always look at the overall development pattern, every time I'm
    tempted to compare James (unfavorably) with other kids his age
    (which is often).  He's skinny, all right, but he has excellent
    fine and gross motor control.  He is extremely bright, very sociable,
    and generally makes his own way pretty well for a little guy who
    just turned 4 at the end of March.  It seems to me that he isn't
    undernourished....but I can't help worrying!!!!  So if *he's* OK,
    how do I get myself to quit worrying?!?

    I liked what Ann said in the basenote: "My intent is to raise
    a child who is happy with her own body..." This has become a 
    concern of mine since having a daughter.
    
    Lately I have read references to a study showing that some large
    percentage of 10-year-old girls in the U.S. say they are dieting. 
    This horrifies me - what are we teaching these children?
    
    Lucy

    I was deeply upset recently when a relative made a comment about
    Shannon not having any "meat on her legs".  She weighed 16.5 pounds at
    her 15 month checkup and was 30" tall.  Since her extreme premature
    birth, her doctor and I think she is doing super. These types of
    comments don't bother me when they come from strangers who don't know
    what she went through ...but to come from a relative......I didn't have
    a response, but would like to have one ready the next time. (If
    I ever do visit with that relative again)
    
    any suggestions?
    
    oh, BTW I should mention that even if I had gone to term, we weren't
    expecting a giant.  I'm 5'2" my husband is 5'7" and were always thin as
    children.
    
    -beth
    

    Having had two children that set their own growth curve (very light and
    short for the first 3 years), I finally started smiling at the pointed
    comments about carrie's weight, and saying "thanks, but I'm not
    raising her for the state fair, nor do I expect her to be a prized cow."
    
    It's kind of snippy, but I always feel that comments from people who
    should have a clue as to what your child is like deserve a little bit
    of that. 
    
    Meg 

    I am amazed that there aren't MORE childrend developing anorexia and
    bullemia.  It quite frankly upsets me that pre teens are deciding that
    if they eat "anything" at all they will get FAT!  I Personally wish the
    models in vogue and other such magazines could be of a "normal" size. 
    Let's face it, the whole world doesn't wear a perfect size 6!
    
    AJ was a few grams under 5 pounds at birth, and was 21".  He was about
    7 weeks early, and was extremely slow to gain.  There was a point that
    I was receiving hand-me-downs from my newphew who is 3 months younger,
    as long as maybe until he was almost 3 years old.  Suddenly AJ shot up,
    but is still thin.  Our rule of thumb, until recently, was that
    whatever his age was, that was the size he was wearing.  (6 mos clothes
    at 6 months, size 3 at 3 years etc.)  Most recently he (at 5-1/2) wears
    a size 6 shirt, but still mostly needs only a 5 in pants.  This kid is
    tall for his age, IMO seems taller than most of his peers at preschool, 
    but has a very slim butt and waist, and 6's seem to be too big.
    
    My point of concern, since this has been raised, is that the last few
    weeks he'll announce at the table how full he is, but hasn't really
    eaten all that much.  Then he proceeds to stick out his belly and point
    to "how big and fat my tummy is".  What should I do?  Do I ignore the
    gesture, do I insist he eat more, or even clean his plate.  He really
    isn't fat, in fact quite slim.  He's 42" and 45 pounds, and really
    doesn't eat enough the way I see it.
    
    I am glad someone broght this up.
    
    Lyn

    
    just my $.02:
    
    ask your pedi how much a boy of his age *needs* to be eating to be
    *healthy*, and let it go at that.  If *you* make a big deal about him
    eating enough, then that becomes the issue, rather than staying healthy,
    
    Jamd

    I too am bothered with some of the questions I get.  She has always
    seemed to be alittle bigger than others around her of the same age.  I
    would get the comments "oh, what chubby cheeks" or "what a BIG baby". 
    
    And if I am on the phone with someone, thats usually the first question
    they ask "how much does she weigh now".  I was asked that question the
    other day (the person has never seen her in person yet) and I replied
    "about 21 lbs" and her reply was "wow, what a porkchop" and I jumped to
    my daughter's defense by saying "shes tall" (which she is).  I am
    5'10" and my husband is 5'11", so she will have some height to her.  My
    entire family is tall.  Anyways, Alyssa is 10 months, about 21lbs and 
    probably in the neighborhood of 30" - maybe alittle more.  This is our 
    first, so I don't have any past experiences to compare her to.  She
    wears nothing under 18 months.  Like her mom, she has a long girth, and
    she grows out of the pants before the tops.
    
    I guess its the way it works, when your an infant/toddler, other
    parents "make fun" (for lack of a better word) of your child's weight -
    when they are in school, its their own peers who do the teasing.
    
    
     
    
     
    
    

    I meant to ask in my previous note - I don't understand what the
    "height weight %" is.  I have been to the pedi many times with my
    daughter for her checkups and they haven't even mentioned this.  They
    do weigh and measure her - write in her chart and thats it.  Could
    someone shed some light.
    
    

The percentile is the percentage of children the same age whose height/weight 
is below your child.  For example, if your child's weight is in the 50th 
percentile, then 50% of all children the same age weigh more and 50% weigh 
less.  If your child's height is in the 90th percentile then 90% of all 
children are shorter and 10% are taller.

Clay

    sounds like you have a "normal" kid.  I have the opposite problem.  We
    have children that start out very small and catch up slowly.  I get
    people underestimating my kids' ages for the first four years, and have
    actually had someone come up to me and ask if Atlehi was premature. 
    She is our biggest baby all the way through and even on the charts, a
    feat none of my kids had made before her.  
    
    if she is healthy and happy whose business is it on how big/small she
    is?
    
    meg

    Hmmmmmmm well, Jonathan's 10 mos checkup, he weighed in at 23lbs, 7oz,
    and 29 3/4" tall.  And they said that was 50th percentile.  He doesn't
    wear anything smaller than 18 mos either.  
    
    But then the nurse said he was short and fat .... nice, huh?  All 3 of
    my kids have been chunky babies.  The older 2 are absolute bean poles
    now, and most of time even 'slim' clothes are baggy.  Enjoy your baby,
    and be thankful they're healthy.  According to my Dr, when approached
    about a potential genetic tendency towards obesity (for the baby), the
    Dr said they wouldn't even consider anything about it before 2 years
    old, unless there was something Very dramatic going on.
    
    Try to keep it in perspective too ... babies gain a LOT of weight in
    the first year or so.  Jonathan's 3-year old 1/2 brother weighs 31 lbs.
    Jonathan (11 mos) is about 25 lbs now.  Big difference is that Jonathan
    only just started crawling, and doesn't walk at all.  Gregory runs. 
    All the time.  (-:  I think that weight is extremely disproportionate
    at this age.  Jonathan outweighs his cousin (my niece) by a couple
    pounds, and she's 2.  Jonathan's chunky but he's not 'fat' with all
    those extra rolls you sometimes see (-;  - he's really SOLID.  And
    stronger than you can imagine.  Emma (his 2 year old cousin) is almost
    frail she's so tiny, and has basically no muscle to her at all ....
    
    People come in all shapes and sizes .... love 'em anyway! (-:
    

    Our youngest ( 26 mos) IS short and fat. He almost exploded on
    mothermilk only from normal birth weight to top of the scale in 4
    weeks. He was bottom scale on size though. He's now slowly getting to
    REASONABLY over/under average since he started walking (perpetually).
    
    So enjoy the baby and don't worry
    
    Michel

    Well, it has happened.  The kids at school are calling my son, Nathan
    (7) fat.  Nathan is 4'9" and 100 lbs.  He has always been bigger
    than the other kids but has just started gaining weight very 
    quickly.  He gained 10 pounds in the last month!  I didn't make
    a big deal about it because we are a large family and I figured
    that because he is active that it wouldn't be a problem.  But, now
    he is asking to go on a diet.  He feels aweful about his body.  He
    will not take swimming lessons or change his clothes in front of
    his father and I because he is ashamed.  This is heartbreaking.
    
    My question for you is,  should I be concerned?  Will he outgrow
    this?  I believe that 7 years old is too young to be on a diet.
    He is a picky eater and will not eat fruit or vegetables so I
    can not figure out how to get him to eat properly and not gain
    anymore weight.
    
    I will be talking to our doctor to see what he thinks but 
    I wanted to see if any of you had any advice.  I just want him
    to be happy and healthy and don't want to see him get into the
    bad eating habits and the problems of being overweight that 
    others in our family have.
    
    Thanks,
    Pam 

    Ask your doctor for a referral to a nutritionist and then make an
    appointment for you and your son, so he is actively involved in the
    effort to eat healthy.
    
    best of luck
    

    
    I'd definitely take him to a medical Dr. - he may have a metabolic
    disorder that's caused him to put on so much weight so quickly.  I'm
    sure the Dr. will want to run some blood tests, so it may be worth
    preparing Nathan for this.
    
    You don't state whether he really is "chunky" or if he's just built big
    .... does he eat a lot?  Chris(9) is about 4'8" and weighs ~60 lbs,
    but he's a TWIG!  Does he sit around a lot?  Eat all the "wrong" food? 
    You state that others in your family have weight problems - maybe
    someone else would be willing to "eat healthier" with him, then he
    would have someone else who can relate to what he's going through, at
    the same time.  They can maybe call each other and complain that they
    WANT a twinkie!!  
    
    I don't know if a Dr. would actually recommend a diet, but probably
    just concentrate on healthier eating.  Find some vegetables and fruits
    that he DOES like, or foods that don't have a ton of calories, for him
    to snack on.  Popcorn and sugarless jello are great!  Switch to diet
    soda - if that's all there is, he'll drink it.  That's ALL I ever have
    at my house (I'm diabetic), and my kids are fine w/ it.  At their
    fathers house, they never have sugarless anything, and wouldn't touch
    it if they did ... it's more a matter of what's available.
    
    And coming from someone who's supposed to be on a "more conscientious"
    eating program - it's nearly impossible to do it alone.  If you can
    change the way everyone eats, so there's only lower fat, healthy foods
    around, you'll be doing everyone a favor.
    
    I wish you luck!
    

It doesn't sound to me that he weighs a lot more than average for his
height.  He does sound tall.

I'd start by explaining to him that a diet usually involves eating lots
of vegetables and some fruit.  I'd then see if he'd be willing to work
together to find some fruits and vegetables that he would like.  Experiment,
make it fun.  

My guess is that he won't even need a diet.  If he eats more fruits and
vegetables, his weight may even out slowly on its own.  Diets are notorious
for causing people to gain back *at least* as much weight as they have lost,
so I would really work to find another way.

There's also a book that might help, called "Belinda's Bouquet."  It's
been a long time since I've read it, but I know where it is and will re-read 
it and see if it really seems appropriate.  I think that maybe what your son
really needs is better self-esteem.  I think this book, or some other, may
help with that.  I'll let you know more about the book when I've re-read it.

Good luck.

    Carol

    
    
    I think Patty's suggestion of changing the whole family's eating
    habit is the best idea. Diets are no good because it implies that
    you get on and get off them, like remedies. 
    
    Try to find some vegetables and fruits that he likes and eat that
    with him. Veggies like frozen corn and peas, right out of the freezer,
    baby carrots and red pepper are usually tolerated by picky eaters. 
    Once he starts to tolerate veggies, check out some vegetarian
    cook books. Try to cut down the fat and sugar intake and switch to 
    healthier snacks. You really want to teach him to eat right for the
    rest of his life and I think the entire family will benefit from  
    the change.
    
    Exercise is also important. Maybe some afterschool team sports will
    interest him. Once he gets his metabolism going, he may start to lose
    weight. Maybe the entire family can get into cross country skiiing
    or hiking. These are excellent low-impact workouts that good for
    the body and the soul.
    
    
    
    Eva
    
    

    Thanks for the replies.  
    
    To answer your questions:  he is tall but he is getting chunky.
    His stomach sticks out over his belt of his pants and you can
    really tell if he has a knit shirt on, he won't wear them anymore.
    
    I recently started a 'diet' (healthier eating) and have involved
    Nathan in some of the decision-making when grocery shopping.  He 
    is heading for the low-fat/no-fat no sugar choices but wants
    nothing to do with veggies or fruits.
    
    I stopped by the doctor's office on my way home from work yesterday
    to talk to him about it.  He suggested making an appointment to
    check everything out to make sure it is nothing more that 
    unhealthy food choices.  We decided that having the doctor
    tell him to eat healthier would make a bigger impression that
    having Mom say it.  
    
    Actually, yesterday, he did much better.  I didn't catch him 
    sneaking food and when he asked for a snack and I said, "no".
    He didn't whine and complain about it  - he said "oh yeah, I
    just had something to eat a while ago.  I guess I'll have a glass
    of water"  So, he is trying!
    
    Thanks for your help.
    
    Pam

    How active is he? Usual active kid, or is he involved in organized
    activities, like sports?  I ask because sports like football seem to be
    in the "high activity" realm, but actually they spend more time
    standing around than actually moving.  Basketball and soccer are better
    - longer duration of activity.
    Go easy on fruits. They have a lot of sugar that few people need unless
    they are marathon runners.  Vegetables (raw, with no-fat dip might
    entice him?) and complex carbohydrates (prepared without fats/oils) are
    better in the long run.
    You mentioned 'sneaking' snacks.  Is he actually sneaking? Is he
    feeling ashamed of being hungry?  The shame part has to go! No
    badgering, no shaming, no blame.  Somebody mentioned self-esteem, which
    is a BIG part of changing eating habits, a positive change towards
    improvement.  Help him set some attainable goals to help improve his
    attitude, like how many days can he go without snacking in front of the
    TV after school?  How many glasses of water can he drink? How many new
    vegetables did he try (even if he didn't like all of them)?
    Good luck, it must be tough at such a young age to be facing a weight
    problem AND terrible insults from his school-mates : ( 
    Sarah
    
    

    Sarah,
    
    Thanks.  Well, we talked yesterday about how much activity he is
    getting.  I was assuming that since he was outside playing with his
    friends that he was being active - well, when we talked about it,
    he said mostly they just sat around and talked  or when he goes to
    friends houses, they play sega and watch tv.  Not too active!  So,
    we came up with a plan to exercise together after school (walk the
    dog, rollerskate around the park, play baseball - make it fun!) 
    
    I don't blame him at all, if anything, I blame myself.  I try to
    build him up.  He is good at a lot of things school, sports and
    he is very creative.
    
    In regards to sneaking:  He wakes up on the weekend before I do
    and will eat 3 or 4 bowls of cereal.  When I get up he asks for
    waffles or pancakes.  Then an hour later, I find wrappers from
    graham crackers in his room.  I talked gently to him about this
    and we decided that I will start waking up with him.  He was 
    bored in the morning so, would eat.  
    
    And yesterday, we went out for Japanese for dinner and he actually
    tried the cabbage!  He gagged on it but at least he tried it.  
    
    Thanks so much for all the ideas!
    Pam

    My 9 year old daughter is also "chunky".  But then again so are her
    parents.  Well after talking with her doctor, we both decided that
    the two of us would join weight watchers.  Children need a doctors 
    note to join WW.  Her note said it was not to loose weight but to
    learn how to eat healthy.  While Michele is not crazy for fruits or
    vegetables, she has learned that drinking crystal lite over soda is
    better (water would be great but I'm not pushing it).  We have been
    at WW for 8 months now and she has lost 10 lbs and I've lost 33.  
    She could still loose 15 more lbs to make her at ideal weight with the
    doctors and I still have 30 more. The doctor is thrilled but keeps
    telling me not to emphasis its a diet, but learning how to eat
    properly.
    
    We
    have been a great support to each other.  She now loves stir fry and
    will eat some of the veggies and has now started to eat more fruit.
    
    Give it time, it took her 8 months to finally start eating fruit on
    a regular basis.
    
    Good luck, I know how it feels when they come home crying because the
    kids at school are calling them names.  Kids don't realize how nasty
    they can be.
    
    Regards,
    Karen
    
    

    
    A good alternative to diet drinks is to add a little fruit juice to
    sparkling water. I am against sodas and drinks, diet or regular, since 
    they contain all these chemicals. I also think we need to train our
    palate to enjoy food that is less sweet. 
    
    
    Eva

    re.43
    Didn't mean to suggest that your are blaming him!  Sorry if it came
    across that way...
    What I meant to say, which was not clearly communicated, is to avoid
    using emotionally charged words like "sneaking" and "cheating" to
    describe eating inappropriate things or at inappropriate times. One of
    the best ways to approach this is when you see a child taking food they
    shouldn't have is to ask without any suggestion of fault "Are you
    hungry? How about some of ..." and offer more appropriate choices. Most
    of the time you'll hear "no, not hungry, just bored". Helps reinforce
    the improper eating habit without making a truly hungry child feel bad
    about wanting to eat!
    Exercising together is great! Good motivation, good chance to have some
    nice quiet time together, and help make activity "fun" as opposed to a
    chore that has to be done to maintain a weight goal.  
    He's sounds like a bright kid who probably needs just a bit more
    information to help him on his way, tohelp  make the connection between
    activity level, food choices, and weight.
    Provided there isn't a medical reason for his weight, such as a blood
    sugar imbalance...
    Sarah

    Thank you all for your suggestions.
    
    I just wanted to let you know that I took Nathan to the 
    doctor yesterday for a checkup and to talk about nutrition.
    The doctor said the doctor charted his height and weight
    and said that although both height and weight were way off 
    the charts even for a boy 2 or 3 years older than him that
    there is no worry because h and w are in synch with each other.
    
    He said to keep an eye on the weight gain but he is not worried
    about it.  He told Nathan that he needs to start eating fruits
    and vegetables because if he didn't he would have tummy aches
    and when he got older he would be constipated a lot.  Nathan
    does not like that idea.
    
    Also, in the last 2 weeks, Nathan has lost 4 pounds simply by
    not eating junk and picking a different activity for excercise
    each day. He really has been quite an inspiration.  This week
    we have been playing tennis, basketball, baseball, swimming
    and today we are going swimming again.  This weekend we are
    going hiking.
    
    Nathan has been feeling great about himself and making a lot
    of healthy decisions.  He went grocery shopping with me and
    we talked about fat content in food and he seemed to pick up
    on it.
    
    He keeps saying he is on a diet and I am trying to stress to
    him not to think about being on a diet because people go off
    of diets and he needs to concentrate on eating healthier for
    life.  He likes this idea and has starting telling his friends
    that he is eating healthy foods - no junk.
    
    So anyway, I just wanted to let you all know what is going on.
    Thanks for all your help,
    
    pam

    Pam,
    
    This is more for pregnant people but I think the nutrition is sound,
    and it is a  sneaky way to maintain weight and health.  
    
    I learned this over the weekend at a conference on pregnancy and
    nutrition.
    
    Telling a person they can't eat certain foods doesn't work, according
    to one of the midwives at the conference, and being heavy herself, she
    knows all the ins, outs and arounds of diet and deprivation.  
    
    Her only demand for people eating is that before they have their cake,
    potato chips, or what have you that they eat a protein, a green or
    yellow veggie (or fruit) and a whole grain carbohydrate.  (This is a
    formula from Tom Brewer a Dr, who has had wonderful luck in preventing
    PIH in pregnancy)  After you eat that go ahead and have that pie, or
    icecream.  The sneaky part of this is often by the time you have eaten
    the oz of cheese, meat or peanut butter, the 6 crackers or slice of
    bread and the orange, carrot or salad, that you are often too full to
    eat the junk food.  
    
    meg, who hates the word diet.

    Thanks Meg,
    
    This sounds like a good idea, I'll try it.
    
    pam

    It's the name.  I have a friend whose son Nathan is overweight when his
    brother Joshua is a toothpick.
    
    :-) :-) :-)

    8*) 
    
    Do you think if we call him, Max, the problem would go away?
    Nathan is really mad that we named him such a 'geeky' name and
    wants to change it!
    
    Hmmmm that could be the problem 8*)

I went on a diet once that  had the "Cheat List".  You
could eat anything on the list, except you had to start
from number one.  (So to eat item 4, you had to eat 1,
2, and 3 first).  You can guess what the list looked like:

1) raw vegetables
2) cooked vegetables
3) vegetable juice
4) raw fruit
5) cooked fruit
6) fruit juice
7) soda crackers
8) bagel with honey
9) bagel with jelly
 
etc

21) potatoe chips
22) cookies
23) cake
24) ice cream

I never made it past 2.

Pat

    I like that list!  altho there are some days i could probably make it
    all the way thru..... :>)
    
    sandy

Re: the cheat sheet

Boy, if I can get through the first 21, I get to (indeed, I'm required to) have
cookies and cake with my ice cream!

re: .54

>   Boy, if I can get through the first 21, I get to (indeed, I'm required
>   to) have cookies and cake with my ice cream!

   Waddayamean *if* ?!?!    For some of us (well, myself, anyway), its
   more like *when*!!
   
   :-)  :-)
   
   - Tom