Conference moira::parenting

	I would not wait.  The earlier you catch eye problems,
	the better.  My nephew has had glasses since he was 2 years
	4 months.  When you call to make an appointment, make sure
	the Doctor is used to doing exams on children.  Also, be
	advised, you will most likely end up with an opthamologist,
	as opposed to an optometrist (though you usually start with
	the optemetrist).  You have nothing to lose and everything
	to gain in seeing the Doctor now.

	Karen

    A friend of mine went through this last year when her son was an
    infant. They suspected lazy eye even before birth - guess it runs in
    the family or something.  All I remember is that he wore a patch at
    about 8 or 9 months, then they gave him glasses to wear, which he
    really didn't like.  finally, they operated on his eye at about 12
    months old.
    
    The surgery went extremely well, and today his eyes are fine.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Mary

I went through this same thing with my daughter.  Actually it was someone
else that first noticed her eyes turning and mentioned it to me.
It did not happen all the time, but I did notice it when I was feeding her.
As her eyes tracked the spoon to her mouth one or sometimes both eyes would
go so far to the middle that I could only see the whites or her eyes.  Scary
feeling I was worried that her eye might stay in that position.

I mentioned it to her pedi (I think this was at her 18 month check-up).  He
quickly referred me to a pediatric opthmologist(sp).  It is amazing how
these folks can actually do testing on such little and squirmy people.

Lazy-eye and near-sightedness were both mentioned.  All I could see was my
cute little baby wearing these thick glasses with the patch on the lens
(really vain now that I think about it).

The outcome of the referral was the muscles that control the eyes were too
loose and this was causing the eyes to wander (this is a much more common
ocurrance that I had thought).  I questioned the eye Dr.
that maybe the muscles would tighten up on there own.  He said that was
highly unlikely and unless corrected soon could lead to serious eye problems.

Normally only one eye is affected, but both my daughters eyes had the problem.
She ended up having day surgery to correct both eyes at the same time.  While
waiting, there were 7 other children (all under 3) scheduled for the same
surgery.

One of the parents was there for the second time.  Seems they can only do
so much correction at a time.  Sometime 2-3 surgeries are required.  Luckily
my daughter's condition was not that bad so she will only require the one
surgery.  

If I can answer any questions on this surgery, let me know.  Hopefully your
case will be something mild that can easily be corrected without surgery.

Barbara

You'd be surprised how well they can examine a baby's eyes.  Since my babies 
were so premature, they had their eyes checked when they were about 8 weeks 
old (36 weeks gestation) to make sure they were developing correctly.  And 
they had a follow-up examination with a pediatric opthamologist a few months 
ago (they are 1 year old today) where he was able to tell that Jessica will be 
near-sighted and Brad will most likely be near-sighted.  It's amazing to watch 
a doctor like that work, and wonder how he can tell so much with such a quick 
exam, but this guy was very good.  And I speak from some experience.  I have 
worn glasses from 8 months old because I was cross-eyed, and had 2 eye surgeries 
to correct it.  I still wear glasses, though don't need them all the time, and 
only have a lazy eye if I am really tired.

If you're in the Boston area, I can give you a recommendation for a doctor.  
But definitely don't wait.  Have it done now as the earlier they detect such 
problems the easier it is to fix them (things get worse and are more 
complicated to fix if left untended).  And make sure you see a pediatric 
opthamologist as s/he will be accustomed to seeing babies and will be better 
able to make a proper diagnosis.

Cathy

    My daughter has been to a pediatric opthamologist several times for
    examinations.  She had eye surgery at 3 months old (her due date
    actually) to protect against a detached retina.  The eye that was
    operated on is now slightly off center (not noticeable except in some
    photos) and may have a stigmatism...
    
    At her last appointment the doctor prescribed patching of her good eye
    for an hour a day for 6 months.  After a couple of days we did not
    experience any problems patching her.  It seems kids adjust to anything
    if it is made part of their daily routine.  The doctor did recommend
    that she be patch during "active play" to keep her mind occupied.
    
    Sometimes patching can eliminate the need for glasses, but even if it
    doesn't, the sooner the child is seen, the better...
    
    I went to a specialist in Salem NH.  I'd be happy to share the Doctor's
    name with you via mail.
    
    good luck
    Beth 
    

    
    Take her to Boston Children's hospital.  They have (IMO) the best
    opthomology(sp) department in the area.  They handle kids well.  You'd
    be surprised.  Don't confuse an adults eye exam with a childs.  They
    use animals, shapes, storybook characters, etc.  DON'T WAIT!!  It may
    not be lazy eye.  It could be something worse, like Toxoplasmosis,
    which is what my daughter was diagnosed as suffering from and causeing
    her eye movement and sight problems.
    
    Chris D.

    Hi Janet,
    
    I too have gone through this very same thing, but not with my son, with
    myself.  I have had lazy eyes since I was born.  As mentioned in a
    previous note, it had to do with the muscles that controlled the eyes. 
    One eye was operated on when I was 3 years old and then both eyes were
    done when I was 14.  Both times required over night stays (but that was
    many years ago and technology has improved so greatly that it's now
    done outpatient).  I still to this day have lazy eyes, but again as
    stated in a previous note, only when I'm tired.  If my problem hadn't
    been caught and diagnosed as early as it was, I would have some serious
    eye problems today.  I still wear glasses, but not for the lazy eye,
    for the nearsightedness.  I have been told by my eye doctor that the
    two are unrelated.
    
    I would talk to your pediatrician about your suspicions and have
    him/her recommend a good optometrist/opthamologist.
    
    Lori B. 

    
    On the brighter side, my daughter's eyes too seemed to wander. 
    Actually, she has very strong eyes, and now, at age 8 she surprises
    everyone when she goes "cross-eyed" and practically makes her whole
    cornea (? - colored part) disappear into the corner of her eyes.
    
    In any case, I agree that you should have it checked right away.
    
    
    jean

There are a number of similar conditions that all seem to give rise to the
name "lazy eye" where one or both eyes do not work in synchronism.

The most common one is a crossed eye, where one eye (or both in the case
of an alternating cross) crosses either inwards or outwards.  This is referred
to as strabismus.  There are a number of causes for strabismus, but the
usual one is the inability of an eye to focus correctly, so in effect the
brain turns off the signal from that eye because of an it is too difficult
to reconcile that signal.  In early days, the easiest way to "turn off"
the eye, is to rotate the eye either inward (convergent) or outward (divergent)
so the eye signal is totally irreconcilable.  The problem is usually caused
by far sightedness, rather than near sightedness, but occasionally because
of different length muscles.

Also referred to as lazy eye is a condition where the motion of one eye 
follows the motion of the other imprecisely.  There are any number of causes
for this many of which can be non-optical.

One important thing to note about any crossed eye condition is that it should
be taken care of as soon as possible, because the brain initially supresses
the information from one eye in a temporary manner, but in time supresses the
signals in a permanent manner and the crossed eye becomes blind.  This
condition is often referred to as amblyopia.

I am fortunate and have an alternating strabismus, in that I can actually
choose which eye to see with and move.  The unselected eye will then cross
in.  Both my eyes are mildly far sighted and have astigmatism.  I wore glasses
from about 6 months old (and this was in 1951 when there wasn't the modern
equipment around and the doctor had to do it all manually!).  I have lived
with glasses most of my life.  There are glasses available with sprung
arms and ear curls which are very good at staying on.  When I had my first
pair they were actually TIED on!  At one time, my condition was considered
inoperable, although today they would operate.  Fortunately, while the
cross wasn't corrected, the alternating nature of my cross means I have
100% vision in both eyes.

So, to anyone with worries about crossed eyes ... get them seen to ... for
both vision and aesthetic reasons ... living life with crossed eyes has
certainly been a social challenge!


Stuart

    Indeed, even if the parent suspects any thing out of the ordinary
    with the child's sight, they should not hesitate to have it examined.
    I was born with heavy astigmatism and myopia, and since no-one in
    my family had ever worn glasses, no one thought that I might have a
    problem -- in the end my parents were concerned that I had somekind of
    serious LEARNING DISABILITY. I mis-identified objects, was extremely
    clumsy (couldn't see that stair!) and generally was poor at reading
    things from afar. Finally in the second grade that nurse discovered my
    problem with my first eye check-up at school. I think she was a little
    peeved at my parents for not noticing I needed glasses!
    
    Again, don't wait, better check it out now!
    
    Monica

    My son has a similar problem.  I don't know the medical term for it but
    unlike most of us he does not see with both eyes at the same time.
    Therefore both eyes can seem to be "lazy" at times.  My son was
    probably not much more than a year old when we were told to see an eye
    specialist about his condition.  The first doctor we saw wanted to
    operate right away.  We decided to get a second opinion and went to see
    a very well respected opthomologist in Worcester.  My son has been
    seeing him now every six months for about 5-6 years.  He does not
    suggest that we operate.  My son has 20/20 vision in both eyes and can
    function well.  I wouldn't rush into surgery unless it is absolutely
    necessary.  At some point in time down the road my son may elect to
    have the corrective surgery if it should become a problem socially.
    Surgery will still not make him see with both eyes at once.  I was
    told that if you don't start seeing with both eyes at once very early
    in life you never will.  I can recommend this doctor in Worcester if
    you are interested.
    
    Regards,
    
    Guy

    When I was in my 30's I learned that I only use one eye, my left. 
    Individually, they both test with good vision, though.  
    
    The eye doctor, said I can use a focusing exercize to try to correct it
    (looking at a vertical pencil centered 18" from my face, and gradually
    drawing it closer, which feels like going cross-eyed), but was not very
    encouraging that it would help.  I have not done it.
    
    This affects me two ways:
    
    1.  I am not comfortable using a camera or gun sight with my lazy eye. 
    Things look fuzzy.
    
    2.  *IMPORTANT FOR PARENTS TO KNOW* It affects my depth of vision,
    which can be hazardous when driving.  It is not obvious to me when I am
    tailgating another car.  You should be aware of this when your kids
    start driving.
    
    To compensate, I deliberately maintain distance using several
    techniques.  At slow speeds, I leave enough distance to see the next
    car's rear tires.  On the highway, I leave enough distance so I can't
    read the next car's licence plates, and confirm this by leaving at
    least 1 car length, measured by cars in the right or left lane.

    My eyes also do not work together, they never have.  I've had two
    surgeries to correct the muscle control and this was supposed to correct
    this problem too, but it didn't.  Anyway, I usually don't use my left
    eye, but I do need to close it if I were to look into a pair of
    binoculars.  The only thing that has been effected by this is by
    peripheral vision.  My depth perception is fine and I have no trouble
    driving a car.
    
    Lori B.

    I was told on occasions by different Opthalmologists that the
    alternating cross was both operable and inoperable.
    
    The last one was one of the top specialists in Toronto ... his
    prognosis was operable ... but at this stage in life (half way !)
    unless there was a compelling reason to do so, he would be inclined
    not to because of a number of problems ... primarily at least two
    months of double vision until my eyes work together visually (strangely
    that while crossed (alternatingly) they still move in synch ... the
    crossed eye still moves)
    
    After so many years of practice, I can now do pretty well at distance
    perception ... although I cannot "measure" worth a darn!  While driving
    distance perception is by perspective and usually keeps me out of
    trouble, but I definitely tend to allow extra space in front of me.
    Sometimes it is the strangest things that fool me ...  One day I
    went to pour a coup of tea (made with loose tea) and proceeded to
    pour through a nylon mesh tea strainer ... well the tea and leaves
    started to pour over the top ... I had no visual indication that I
    was holding the strainer upside down!
    
    Stuart

    First appointment with the eye Dr he just looked at her eyes he asked
    us to have Kyla wear a patch over her good eye and to watch what the
    other eye did (go straight or crossed).  We then had to put an ointment
    in her eyes two mornings before her next appointment which was this 
    morning. 
    
    I believe the ointment does something to the eye which allows him to 
    measure her sight when looked at through a glass instrument with a light 
    shining through.  Kyla was very good, she sat on my lap and did exactly
    what the Dr asked.  The only problem was I did not get enough ointment 
    in one of her eyes :-( which means back to the Drs next week.  What he
    did find in one of the eyes that on a scale of 1 -10 (normal in
    children is 1 to 2) is that Kyla is around 8 - 9.  Very very far
    sighted.  Once he gets an accurate reading in the other eye it will be
    time to buy some glasses.  He mentioned that most people wait till the
    child is 10 or older and by this time it is too late, he would not be
    able to help the child.  By bringing Kyla at this age he will be able
    to help her have perfect eyesight (by wearing glasses), the eyes will
    straighten while she wears the glasses but may wander when her glasses
    are off.  If I did not bring her now he said by the time Kyla was 10
    years old she would probably not be able to see very much at all.
    
    I am planning on making a big deal about the glasses, trying to excite
    her by asking what kind of glasses,  color  etc and will let her pick
    them out by herself.  Now does anyone have any suggestions of how to
    keep them on her ? :-)
    
    

I was diagnosed as extremely farsighted (presbit) with severe astigmatism
when I was 7 years old (end of first grade, they couldn't understand why I
wasn't learning to read when I was so bright).  This was too late.  The last
doctor I went to said that if they don't catch it before you are 5, your eyes
never stabilize and the amount of correction needed changes constantly.  I now
need bifocals with a correction of 6.5 for distance and 7.5 for closer in.  I 
started as a child with a correction of 3.75 diopters.  I was able to wear
contact lenses for about 10 years before I became allergic to the plastic so
even that is out for me now.

By all means!  See that your child can see properly when they are young.

ccb

How old is Kyla?  From what you describe, I would think that the glasses will
help her to see quite a bit better than she does now, so you may not have a
problem at all with her keeping them on.  I speak from some experience.  I've
worn glasses from 8 months old when I was diagnosed as extremely far-sighted
and extremely cross-eyed.  My mother said I never so much as attempted to take
off my glasses, and she always thought it was because all of sudden there
was this big world out there I'd never quite seen before, and I was totally
amazed.

The problem I had was that I was constantly breaking my glasses, but we were
lucky to have an optometrist who would open his shop anytime at nights or on
weekends (we had his home phone number) so that he could fix me up with 
something temporary til my glasses could be fixed.

And my sight has gone from blind as a bat to having plain glass on one side
of my glasses and an extremely weak prescription on the other side.  I no 
longer need my glasses all the time, though I do wear them constantly as it's
easier and that's what I'm used to, so that's quite an accomplishment.

My crossed eyes, however, had to be fixed by surgery (twice) and I still have
1 eye that wanders if I am very tired.

Best of luck.
Cathy

    My neighbors daughter had to have glasses at 2.5 years old.  She
    had a roving eye to correct, or something like that.
    
    Anyway, her mother took her to pick out the frames -- they have a
    great selection for kids these days.  She picked out a pair of red
    Mickey Mouse frames.  She looked great!  When she got back to the
    neighborhood playmates, they all wanted glasses, too.
    
    At the time my mother was visiting and noticed her with her glasses.
    Thinking that it was a struggle for her mother to keep them on, my
    mother tried to be supportive by commenting on how nice they looked.
    Little Eliza responded by saying, "Thank you, Sarah's Gramma.  Some-
    times they fall off, but I need them, so I put them back on all the
    time."
    
    Diana

One important thing to keep in mind.  The need for glasses will never
go away.  I got glasses at 4th grade.  The optometrist said I would only
need the glasses for a year.  Since then, my eyes have gotten worse
every year.  They only worsen by small increments now, but they still do
get worse.

I will never believe them when they say you won't need glasses anymore.
I also hate the bloody things, but without them I can't read a paper two
feet from my face.

Ed..

   >> One important thing to keep in mind.  The need for glasses will never
   >> go away.
    
    That is not true for everybody.  I've known many people, including my 
    mother, who needed glasses when they were a child and outgrew them
    later.  Ofcourse, much later she needed reading glasses, but that's
    quite a different story.
    
    					Mair
    					(whose been wearing glasses since
    					 age 8)

    Mair, I agree that some people actually find that their eye 
    sight improves with correction, but I know that in the case of
    astigmatism that it is much more likely that the growing lens in
    a child will grow more distorted as time goes on. My opthomologist 
    made no such promise of an adult correction-free life. What he 
    did say is that when I stopped growing the problem of astigmatism
    would stabilize. I have been wearing glasses since the 2nd grade,
    and also have a great amount of myopia. Suffice to say, the doctor
    was wrong. Both problems are still getting worse. I sometimes wonder
    what the future holds for my vision....
    
    Monica
    
    P.S. Have tried contact lens (twice, different types) and they 
    don't work for me at all....
     

    This is such a variable thing that I don't think there's any
    predicting how an individual will turn out in adulthood.  
    
    I too have both astigmatism (minor) and nearsightedness for which
    I wear glasses and had no luck with contact lenses. 
    
    My astigmatism was pretty much gone by my mid-thirties -- took it
    long enough! -- and my glasses prescription hasn't changed in 12
    years.  I expet it will take another dive in middle age, but for
    now everything's stable.
    
    --bonnie

    Kyla picked out her new glasses Tuesday evening.  One pair is pink and
    blue and the second pair is clear with a tynge of pink.  After having
    her eyes examined the Dr found that she was near sighted in one eye and
    far sighted in the other which was causing one of her eyes to cross
    trying to focus.  What is astigmatism ?  Well we picked up her glasses
    last night.  When she put them on she looked at me and said 'Are you my 
    Mommy ?', she then looked at her brother Max and giggled saying that's
    not Max.  I'm not sure exactly what she has been seeing all along, I
    know that she was able to look at a book and describe everything in 
    detail, perhaps it was very blurry ?  Her lense are pretty thick, the
    lense prescription was 4.5 on one eye and 6.5 on the other.  I don't have 
    any experience with glasses so I am not quite sure what those numbers 
    mean.  I have a few questions someone may be able to answer:
    
    How long will it take her to adjust to her new glasses ?
    Will she decide not to wear them even if they do help her to see ?
    I noticed red marks on her nose after a few hours, will her ears and
    nose be irritated for awhile ?
    
    I felt kind of sad when she put them on since I realized she will
    probably be dependent on her glasses for a long time, if not forever.
    She seemed like a different little girl since I've never seen her
    with glasses before (she will be 3 next week).  
    
    When I brought her to daycare today all the kids came running over to
    see her new glasses.  They were all trying to touch and grab them from
    her - teacher told them they were Kyla's and no one else was allowed to
    take them from her.  
    
    I am very happy and thankful that I had her eyes checked out, if it
    will help her to see better and perhaps prevent her eye sight from
    getting worse it was the most important thing that I've done in my
    life.
    
    You know something, little kids wearing glasses sure are special!
    

    RE: .23
    
    I expect to be in the same place that you are soon with my daughter. 
    At her last visit, we were told that she is far-sighted in one eye, and
    near-sighted in the other....For now, we patch one eye for an hour each
    day.  Our next visit (Sept) will be for glasses...I have many of the
    same concerns as you about keeping them on, seeing my baby
    'differently'.  I am hoping the glasses don't serve as a constant
    reminder to me how 'different' Shannon really is.  I have a lot of pain
    associated with her birth circumstances I am still carrying.
    
    Anyway, Astigmatism (which she also has) was described to me as an
    abnormally shaped lens on the eye.  I believe the doctor also stated
    that many people cannont wear contact lenses because of astigmatisms.
    
    God Bless Kyla.  I hope she finds the new view of the world to be
    wonderful!
    
    -beth

RE: .23 and Kyla's new glasses

I too have a prescription that makes my lenses thick.  When I grew up,
glass was the only option, so I had a sore nose from the weight.  They
then came out with plastic, which decreased the weight a bit.

They now have polycarbonate lenses.  Not only do these weigh less than
plastic, they're about half the thickness!! The mfg who makes the ones
I bought is called Optithin.  They're more expensive ... something
around $50 more per pair, as I recall.  For me, though, it's well worth it.
I wear my glasses every minute that I'm awake, so the extra cost
spread out over all the hours is little added expense. 

The added expense might be more difficult to justify for a 3 year 
old, if you're changing the prescription every year or so.  Then 
again, if it helps keep them on her, it might be worth it!  I've 
come to view the expense of my glasses as a mere necessity, not a luxury.

If the redness on her nose and ears persists, take her back to the
optometrist.  Well-fitted glasses should not do this.  Frankly, not all
optometrists are equally skilled!! I've been to some of these 1-hour
places that just demolished my frames when trying to adjust them. 
(If you're in the Boston/Nashua area, I found Opticians 3 at the
Pheasant Lane Mall to be very skilled.)

RE: astigmatism.  I developed this later in life.  The best way I can
describe how it "looks" is this:  imagine looking at the world through
a layer of plastic wrap.  Now, stretch that plastic wrap at opposite
corners.  The world looks a little warped, right?  That's how it
seems to me when I look through lenses that don't correct my
astigmatism.  They DO make contacts that correct for this.  They're
weighted on the bottom, so do not "float" in the same way regular
lenses do.  I tried them, but had problems with eye dryness (not
a problem with the lense itself.)

I swore many years ago that I detested plastic lenses due to scratching and
due to the fact that they are difficult to degrease.  So, I let my optician
talk me into polycarbonate plastic lenses this time, stating that the new
cleaners really do look after the grease and the polycarbonate resists
scratching.

Well, I have been incredibly careful about these lenses but somewhere, they've
already got a minor scratch ... and at certain sun angles, I'm just about
blind because I cannot adequately degrease these d*** lenses.  Never again
will I use plastic of any kind lenses.

A simple example of astigmatism is to draw a plus sign + with equal thickness
horizontal and vertical bars.  Rotate the plus sign while looking at the
centre.  Does the thickness of the bars appear to change as you rotate ?
That is planar astigmatism.  There are forms of astigmatism where areas
are uneven as opposed to planes ... this form is just about impossible to
correct for except with most expensive and special lenses.

One common effect of astigmatism is to make reading difficult and another
is while outside at night, look at a street light, traffic light or whatever,
it is possible to see a second image of the light a short distance away
from the light you are looking at.  For example, I see a second light down
and right of a light at about 1' in 100' distance.  It makes night driving
a bit of a challenge.

Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    A cleaning tip for plastic lenses (in glasses): try washing them with
    castile soap and warm/hot water, followed by careful drying with
    kleenex. I've been following this practice and managed to keep the same
    pair of plastic lenses going for eight years (and I'm on my second kid, 
    too!)
    
    We keep castile soap around for general household tasks. I use 
    Dr. Bronner's (from the health food store) because I like to read
    the nutty label.
    
    Lucy

Stuart-

Did you possibly have the optician put that anti-reflective coating
on your lenses?  I did the first time I got polycarbonate.  They didn't
tell me you'd have to use a special cleaning solution to get ANY
grease marks off. I went around cursing for 3 weeks before going back
and complaining!

I had them remove the coating when I had the glasses made into sunglasses.
It just wasn't worth the hassle of having to use the special cleaning
solution and special cloth.

I haven't found my polycarbonate to scratch any easier than plastic.
The pair I have now is at least 3+ years old.  I'm just thankful to
not have the weight of glass on my nose; I guess it's all a matter
of personal preference.

--Jennifer

    Yes, they did put anti-reflective coating on because that is what I
    hated about my last pair of plastic lenses!  Stare out through the lens
    and see your own eyeball looking back! It was really an awful strain
    on my eyes.
    
    And I've got the special solution ... ha ha ha ... that's no better
    than dish soap!
    
    They have a long way to go with plastic lenses in my eyes :-)
    
    Stuart

    
 >>   And I've got the special solution ... ha ha ha ... that's no better
 >>   than dish soap!
 
Gee, that's too bad.  If you're ever in Nashua, I'd suggest stopping at
Opticians 3 at the Pheasant Lane Mall.  The solution they sell (plus the
"special cloth") seemed to clean mine up just fine.  I hated having to
use just that all the time, though.  I had to keep some at work, take it
when travelling, etc. You're right, it's a hassle.

I have terrible astigmatism and am terribly farsighted.  Astigatism can result
from either a deformed cornea or a deformed eyeball.  It can be corrected with
contact lenses as noted in a previous reply.  I wore them successfully for
10 years until I became allergic to the plastic.  I might try again one day
since this was the only way I could see really well.

Let me tell you how it might be for Kyla based on my experiences of getting
glasses at 6 years old.  A whole new world opens up!!  Suddenly I could see
things and get the right answer in class.  I never understood how the other
kids did it until I could finally see the difference between a cat and a dog
or tell the letters apart.  To see how my brothers and sisters looked.

My only desire as I was growing up was to see how I looked without glasses.
I don't know why no oe ever thought of taking a picture of me without them
so I could look at it with my glasses on :-)  When I was 20 years old I worked 
all summer long to pay my first pair of contacts.  It was a revelation to me
to see myself without glasses.  Changed my entire personality and view of
myself.  Now, I can comfortably wear glasses without being self conscious.

Cheryl

    Kyla is wearing her glasses like an old pro!  They really must be
    helping her because she puts them on without me asking her to.  I have
    noticed since she has started wearing glasses that she notices sounds
    or the wind blowing.  She gets very frightened of loud noises such as
    motorcycles and then a few days later she says she likes motorcycles.  
    Her last fear was the wind...I don't know for sure but I think that
    now that she can see she is noticing all these other things ?  Her
    lenses are very thick, before she wore glasses I know she could see
    things, she could name every picture in a book, did not bump into 
    objects etc.  Perhaps what she was seeing was very blurry ?  I would
    hate to think that life was a big blurr for her first 3 years.  Now
    when I think about it (you have probably read my notes over the years
    of how Kyla cries all the time, from the day she was born) this
    probably explains why she cried so much, her crying has decreased 
    dramatically the past few weeks. 
    
    If the Dr says the baby has colic perhaps you should have their eyes 
    checked :-)
    

    Janet, that's pretty amazing. I remember having very nasty nightmares
    when I was under 7 years, and they all had to do with blurry, gray
    things, unfocused large monsters, not being able to see things etc.
    When I got my glasses *finally* (cheap father :-( ) my dreams stopped. 
    So...there certainly might be something to her decrease in crying. 
    
    Glad she is doing so well!
    
    Cyn

I'll put my experience in here for future noters...

Right around his 4th birthday, my son Zachary suddenly had his left eye begin
to cross. This frightened the hell of of his mom and I since it came on in a 
period of 2-3 days (day 0 his eyes are fine, day 3 it is crossed *all* the
time).

After some panicky calls to the pedi and a visit to the pedi opthamologist, we
found out that he was simply far-sighted. Note that previous eye exams by the
pedi had turned up nothing.

The bad news was that he was going to have to wear glasses. The good news was
that since we caught the problem early, myopia and strabismus didn't have time
to develop. 

Hence, the condition is correctable and the opthamologist said that he would
need glasses till the age of 12 or so and then not need them anymore (or as the
opthamologist said, at least not till he is 35-40 yrs. old. Picturing my son
being 35-40 yrs. old is very hard to this dad).

We made sure to get him good-looking wire rim glasses with spring-loaded temple
pieces (made by Tanny). Since the lenses are pretty thick, we got plastic ones.
We also "talked up" how cool the glasses looked (I started wearing glasses at
age 5 because of an eye accident and was pretty geeky looking).

He has adapted well to wearing them and we now get a lot of comments as how
good he looks with them (he looks like a little professor with a burr haircut).

Bruce

    From .34:
    
	>> Right around his 4th birthday, my son Zachary suddenly had his left 
    	>> eye begin to cross ... 
    	>> we found out that he was simply far-sighted ... 
	>> The bad news was that he was going to have to wear glasses. The good 
        >> news was that since we caught the problem early, myopia and 
        >> strabismus didn't have time to develop. ....
	>> Hence, the condition is correctable and the opthamologist said that 
    	>> he would need glasses till the age of 12 or so and then not need 
    	>> them anymore (or as the opthamologist said, at least not till he 
    	>> is 35-40 yrs.
    
    My story is similar:
    
    I have worn far_sighted (the thing people get at 40+) glasses since I 
    was about 5 years old.  My left eye had started crossing in a sporadic way, 
    and far_sighted glasses were prescribed, to be worn till I was about
    15. My parents were warned that if I did not wear glasses "all" the time, 
    the crossing would become uncorrectable with glasses and other problems 
    would develop.  So I wore glasses all the time. 
    
    When I turned 15, I found that I DID NOT WANT to get rid of my glasses.  
    (Weird eh?).  You see, over the years, they became a part and parcel 
    of my anatomy, to the point that not having this thingie on my nose
    bothered me terribly.  Also, without glasses, I was not completely 
    sure that my eyes were not crossing.  I just felt more confident with
    them.  So, at 32 years of age, I still wear my far_sighted glasses 
    (won't even try contacts) and am quite happy about it.  My prescription 
    has not changed in 15 years.
    
    BTW, the glasses correct the crossing completely.
    
    Pam

    Since this looks like a general "eyes" topic, I thought I'd post
    this here:
    
    My daughter has conjunctivitis and the doctor prescribed Ilotycin
    ointment for her eyes.  The problem is, Holly rubs her eyes a
    lot and I'm afraid she isn't getting the medication into her eyes
    as she should.  Has anyone has any experience with this?  I'm
    washing all her bedding, stuffed toys, washcloths, towels, etc.,
    every day so she doesn't reinfect herself.  Is there anything
    else I can do?
    

    Both my daughters had conjunctivitis this year.  The baby always
    rubbed her eyes.  There isn't much you can do.  I had to take her to
    the doctors twice.  All Jessie had to do was see the medicine bottle
    and she would throw a fit.  She did get better anyway.
    
    Save the medicine because your son will get it next.
    
    Angie 

	This was a major problem for us also.  Eventually, our pedi 
prescribed drops, which Lara still fought, but which at least we were able to 
administer.  They were not as effective as the ointment, but we figured that 
was better than a more effective medicine that we couldn't keep in at all.

Clay

    Here's a trick you may already know, but it was new to me:
    
    When giving a kid eyedrops, have her lie on her side, and drip
    the drops into the upper corner of her eye. This way, she doesn't
    have to look up at the bottle hovering above her, waiting for
    the dreaded event. This is not so easy with a baby, but works well
    with older kids. 
    
    We've been around the conjunctivitis loop many times. Our current
    practice is to keep drops on hand at all times, and as soon as 
    anyone gets itchy eyes, start up the drops on them, wash all the
    relevant laundry, isolate their towels, etc. This seems to head it
    off pretty well. Nevertheless, it seems to work its way around the
    family once or twice a year.
    
    Lucy

    
    	I've read through most of these replies and they all seem to say
    	that when a lazy eye is discovered it usually ends up in glasses 
    	or and operation...  Is that always the case??? Is their anyone 
    	out there who had a child with a lazy eye that corrected itself
    	without these measures?? Or with just say wearing a patch for
    	awhile...??
    
    	My son Michael (16 mos) has just developed a lazy eye in the last
    	couple of weeks (I thought this was something people were BORN
    	with????)  Anyways, it seems to be getting worse day after day...
    	Its his right eye, and it tend to cross in.  I notice it the most
    	when he's in his high chair for some reason, not as much while at
    	`play...  
    
    	My husband said he had a lazy eye when he was young (8yrs old or
    	so) that he just had to do excercises for, etc..and nothing ever 
    	came from it, and it wasn't as noticeable as Michaels is becoming.
    	
    	We have an appt with his pedi next Fri, Its just driving me nuts
    	until then...I just don't understand how is can just "happen" all
    	of a sudden.....
    
    	***ACTUALLY...I just thought of something...?  About 3 weeks ago
    	he fell and smashed his face into his tape recorder and had a
    	doosey of a bruised eye(brow) etc...  Could something like that 
    	damage a muscle or something...????
    
    	Any advice or info is needed...its really bothering me..
    
    	Chris
    

    Chris, why wait til next Friday (I assume you don't mean tomorrow?) to
    ask the pedi?  I don't know how your pedi, or staff, is about just
    calling to ask what I call "first time mom" questions, but I would just
    call the office, tell them what you said here including the part about
    the fall, and see if they can offer asurance.
    
    I don't know where you live but I can recommend an *excellent* eye
    doctor in Worcester who is *excellent* with even the smallest of
    children.  He does a lot of eye testing with the NICU premies at
    Memorial Hospital in Worcester.  He is also the husband of my son's
    pedi, and they have small children too.
    
    Lyn

    I have a referral for a very good pediatric eye doctor/surgeon in
    Salem, New Hampshire, if anyone is interested.  She is also the Mom of
    a baby!
    
    Laura
    

    
    Well, Lynn, you got me thinking and I took your advice and called
    the Pedi's office and spoke to a nurse. I told her everything and she
    said she'd call me back after she spoke to the Dr. Well, the doctor
    said he should be seen tomorrow (when his reg doctor is in) instead 
    of waiting till his check-up next week.  
    
    Its really got me thinking now, until I wrote that message, I hadn't
    even remebered that fall he took...  And it being the same eye, and the
    time period that this has started being the same, it gets me to wonder.
    
    I'm glad I found the time to write that note, (been thinking I should
    pass it by the "noters" all week...)  We'll see what the dr says
    tomorrow.
    
    Thanks again Lynn,
    Maybe you could forward me that Eye Specialist in Worcesters name via
    mail....and if it comes up I could mention it to the dr. tomorrow...
    
    Chris
    

    Chris please let us all know what the doctor says.  I'll keep
    everything I got crossed for you, hoping is isn't anything major!
    
    Lyn

    It certainly is possible to have developed lazy eye as a result of a 
    blow, because the blow will have changed the eye focus, which might
    have a tendency to bring out lazy eye.  Remember that lazy eye is a
    result of the brain dismissing the image from the lazy eye because it
    cannot be reconciled with the image from the good eye.
    
    Really, the only way of knowing what the furture is for someone with
    a lazy eye is to find out if there is a focussing problem, or a
    problem with the muscle/tendon eye suspension.  If it is purely a
    problem with the muscles, it MAY be possible to correct it with
    exercises, providing the muscles or tendons are not too long or
    too short.
    
    If it is a focussing problem, the ONLY way is with glasses and
    exercises/patches to ensure that the lazy eye is used.  If the
    image from the lazy eye is supressed for too long a period, the
    image becomes permanently supressed and the person becomes
    effectively blind in that eye.  So, don't be frightened of glasses.
    In later life, contacts will work as well if the cross does not
    become permanent.
    
    If the cross becomes permanent, but caused by focussing problems
    then it MAY be pulled straighter because the best focus is into
    the centre of the lens of a pair of glasses.  Otherwise, an operation
    is necessary if you want the cross corrected.
    
    The best thing though is to get expert opinion on your child's
    case ... while there are standard patterns of the behaviour of crossed
    eyes and their treatment, there are enough variables to mean that
    it is not simply glasses, exercise or operations ... it can easily
    be all 3 or none.
    
    Good luck
    
    Stuart

    
    Thanks for your reply Stuart, you said just about everything the 
    Opthamologist (sp?) said Friday!
    
    I took Michael to his pedi Friday, and he sent us across the hall to 
    an opthamologist. Both doctors agreed that there is definatly something
    wrong with his right eye but they will need more tests to find out if
    it is a muscle problem or a "focus" problem. They both kind of doubted 
    it would be from the fall, saying it would of shown up sooner if it was
    from that (swelling, etc)... and the Opthmologist said that these
    problems (be it muscle or focus) can start around ages 1.5 to 2yrs.
    (Michael is 16 mos). He gave a bunch of medical terms for it, but I
    didn't comprehend it very well at the time after being at both doctors
    offices for a total of 3 hours, with a tired toddler with a stinky
    diaper (mom forgot an extra and the pedis were out!), who proceeded to 
    put his hands on everything and anything is sight/reach.
    
    The doctor said not to worry (yeah right!) and he goes back Mar 11 to
    be checked. This time I will have to put drops in his eyes the night
    before, and the morning of his visit so they can look behind the eye
    to be able to tell if it is "vision" or "muscle".
    
    We are really having a hard time beleiveing it is "vision"...he seems 
    to have great eyesight, picking out the smallest pictures in a book,
    etc....  I tend to think it may be "muscle" related (I may be wrong
    tho)...  The other night I was looking at him, and his eye was
    crossing, and I watched him smack the side of his head (same side as
    the bad eye)and shake it, like he was trying to "fix" it! It was like 
    it annoyed him. (he had just turned to look at the tv) .
    
    Time will tell I guess....  Thanks for the replies, I felt better after
    getting it checked out instead of being totally in the dark and waiting
    another week to get any info. 
    
    Chris
    

Chris,
	Both of my older kids (now 14 and 12 yrs) were born with a genetic
condition known as Amblyopia. Many doctors refer to this as "lazy eye". Since
we were aware of the potential all of kids began to see a pediatric opthamologist
before they were 6 months old. My oldest had glasses (both for this and 
farsightedness) at 6 months and still can't see much without them. He was
"patched" using various methods for almost 3 years. The specialist told us that
children who have this condition aren't often picked up until they get to 
school (5 years old) and then the only real option is surgery to "move" the
muscle. My son still wears his glasses because of his farsightedness not because
of any continuing problem with lazy eye. My daughter was also patched for nearly
2 years and stopped wearing glasses at the age of 8. Occasionally she'll put
them on if she's tired and has a lot of close up work to do but, again, the
patches fixed the "lazy eye".

	I offer you 2 pieces of advice. Hang in there - it does get better. 
Don't rely on your pediatrician to know everything about eyes and eyecare and
make sure the opthamologist you see is a pediatric specialist. We found that
there were large differences in what the opthamologists knew regarding the
development of a child's eyes. If you want the name of the doctor's we used
send me mail (they're in Framingham).


Mike

    
    Well, Michael had his appt at the Opthamologist yesterday, (my husband
    took him), and the doctor said he is farsighted (this does mean he
    can't see things up close, right???) and that the crossing is due to
    his eye(s) needing to compensate more because of this. 
    
    I'm still in shock. I thought for sure it had to be a muscle problem
    because his sight seems to be great, especially up close! My daycare
    provider was also floored when I told her this morning. She has been
    telling me for weeks now how much he has been amazing her with his fine
    motor skills and his "aim". She told me this morning he will stop and
    pick up the "smallest" piece of dirt on the carpet and hand it to her!
    Doesn't sound like something someone with an eye problem could do??
    (I've never had bad eyesight, just a light prescription I used to wear 
     for doing up-close artwork).
    
    The doctor gave us a prescription for glasses...but I think I am going
    to try and get a second opinion before I go out and buy them. I'm just
    having a hard time trying to understand how he seems to see so well???
    Also, he's a very active 17 mos old, and I just don't see how we are going to
    keep them on him!   I'm also dealing with (vain I know) how I'm going
    to deal with seeing my baby "differently". But of course I want whats
    best for him, and will do whatever it takes. I'm just in shock! 
    
    Does this type of thing run in the family??? My husband and I both have
    fine eyesight, but both our mothers had/have poor eyesight...  
    
    I've never asked for a "second opinion" before, will I seem out of line
    if I do????  
    
    Chris
    

    Chris,
    
    Shannon has a vision problem that does not show up in her behavior too.
    Her doctor suggests that she is not using the eye that has the problem
    thus, she doesn't appear to miss anything.
    
    Have you tried to patch your son's good eye to see how well he does? 
    Our doctor has Shannon on a patch for at least 3 hours a day.  She
    wears the patch for her babysitter 5 days per week; Dad and I aren't as
    successful...
    
    We had an appointment Saturday with Shannon's doctor, but she could not
    adequately determine the extent of her vision and therefore, would not
    prescribe glasses....How was your son's vision tested?
    
    I anxiously await the day we can fit her with glasses so that she can
    see whatever she has missed to this point.  I am *hoping* she will wear
    them if they allow her to see better, she *make* like it!  
    
    -beth

    Chris,
    
    You could get the second opinion to make you feel better, but it is
    very possible that he is compensating for one eye with the other as 
    the previous noter said.  
    
    Glasses on a baby are not that terrible.  It will help him to see
    better and make things easier for him.  I started wearing glasses
    at 8 months old because I was also far-sighted and extremely
    cross-eyed (eventually corrected with surgery), and I never took
    them off.  My parents figured it was because all of a sudden I could
    see there was this great big world out there I had been missing,
    and the glasses made everything so much clearer that I didn't want
    to take them off.  The problem I had as a child was that I broke
    my glasses frequently, but we had an optometrist who would open his
    shop at all hours to fix me up temporarily til a permanent fix could
    be done. 
    
    And don't forget, far-sightedness can have advantages if you have
    to wear glasses. At least he won't necessarily have his driver's
    license restricted.
    
    Cathy

	My nephew got glasses at 2 years of age.  His parents don't
	wear glasses.  He is very good about wearing his glasses (he's now
	almost 4), and never thought to put up a fight about it.

	If glasses hurt or are uncomfortable, they have not been fitted
	properly.  I'll drop you a line with some recommendations of
	good optometrists/opthalmologists in your area.  Rather than
	be upset about your child's need for glasses, be thankful that
	you acted quickly to get him tested.  You could be doing wonders
	for his permanent sight.

	Karen

I second what Karen said.  I am extremely farsighted and astigmatic.  Nobody
noticed I couldn't see and I am the only one of 8 children with the problem.
I was not corrected completely until third grade although I began wearing
glasses in first grade.  The only reason I was tested at all was because I
had scored unusually high on kindergarten tests (highest scores the school 
had ever had) but then was unable to learn to read.  The kindergarten tests
were pictoral, I couldn't distinguish a single letter from another.  I thought
the kids were inventing the answers so I became a VERY clever inventor.  Then
they put glasses on me.  WOW!  I could see the clock on the kitchen wall.  
Always did wonder how people knew what time it was :-)

But seriously, my doctor today tells me that the reason my eyes never stabilised
is because I was corrected at a much too late age.  And now they get worse and
worse.

Today they make lovely glasses for children which are 100% safe.  I think 
the right glasses make a child really cute.  I also notice that with my neice
who SHOULD wear glasses all the time is that when she doesn't wear them she
squints and looks awful.  Her face is much prettier and more relaxed when she
isn't straining to see.

ccb

    How topical!
    I took Charlotte to the eye doc yesterday (possiblility of a lazy eye)
    Turns out the doc said that my first suspicion was right, it was the
    wide bridge of her nose making it appear this way.
    BUT!
    She is already near-sighted, and he wants to see her again in 6 mos
    to see if it has changed.
    Now Alan and I are both quite near-sighted and I am also VERY
    astigmatic, so I should not be surprised a this.
    I do however lament at the possibility of her wearing glasses so
    young.
    My own case was much like Cheryl's - problem not diagnosed until 
    routine eye tests at school in the second grade. Nobody at the time
    wore glasses in the family so my parents never suspected bad sight - 
    the we beginning to think I had some mental problem about not 
    recognizing people and object, and the fact that I seemed rather 
    clumsy - however I always did above average in school (lots of 
    squinting).
    So, I suppose discovery at 10 mo's beats 7 years, but glasses for 
    a toddler? I guess I will just have to get used to the idea......
    
    Monica

Far sightedness is a condition where the "far point" ... i.e. the  focus point
for the completely relaxed lens is much further than normal ... The result
being that objects at a distance are better focus, especially for objects
further than the normal far point.

As a side effect, the "near point" is also further away, making close focus
more difficult. Which affects close up work, like reading.  Anything between
the near and far points is not usually a problem.  So, far sightedness will
not usually show up as a problem except for some activities ... particularly
close work.

Far sighted people also seem to be more troubled by astigmatism.

So, while it may seem that the diagnosis is strange, it is a common problem.
The tendency to far sightedness is hereditary and moreover crossed eyes, "lazy"
eyes and later, amblyopia are far more common amongst far sighted people.

It is extremely unusual for an optometrist or opthalmologist to get a wrong
diagnosis because while it seems that some of the testing is subjective,
particularly when checking for astigmatism ... it relies on your responses,
the actual basic lens strength is determined very easily by the doctor
trying to focus on the back of the eye.  When he can focus on the back of
the eye through the correct strength lens, he will have the correct lens.

The difference between short and far sightedness would give the difference
between a concave and convex lens ... so the chances of misdiagnosis of
short vs far sight is virtually impossible.

There are a number of factors that can affect an accurate basic lens strength
prescription ... these being glaucoma (unusual in children) and dehydration.
Even then, the difference will be slim.

There are a number of other factors to a prescription for a lens, such as
the curvature of the lens, and then the astigmatism factors ... prism
and rotation.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about a second opinion.  I'd get the glasses
and try them.  If there are problems, I'd go back and complain ... you paid
them to get it right ... so if they didn't, it's not your fault.

I have only once had an optometrist get a prescription wrong ... I had just
returned from a transatlantic flight and was dehydrated.  So, it was really
my fault.

Stuart

    
    Thanks for the medical info Stuart...it helps to understand it a bit
    better. 
    
    I'm still going to go for a second opinion (if HMO will allow it) with
    more of a "pediatric" opthamologist to be 100% sure before we spend the 
    $$ on glasses.  In fact, does anyone know if Central Mass covers glasses???
    
    I know nothing about sight problems, so all the information in this
    note helps alot.
    
    Thanks for "being there"... 
    
    Chris
    

    If you want a recommendation on a pediatric opthamologist, send me
    mail.  My kids were checked from the beginning due to the prematurity,
    and I was absolutely amazed at how it was done and the equipment
    available.
    
    Cathy

    I am the originator of this note and thought I'd give an update on
    Kyla's first year wearing glasses.  Kyla wears her glasses with no
    problem all day but the minute she gets home she takes them off. She
    had her annual eye exam yesterday and her eyes are definitely a lot
    straighter (without the glasses) than they were a year ago.  When she
    wears the glasses her eyes are straight.  I asked the Dr how she could
    see without wearing her glasses, he said she was using her left eye.
    I think her little face gets tired of wearing the glasses all day, but
    you would think if they helped her to see better she would want to keep
    them on....now here is my problem she is suppose to wear a patch at
    least an hour a day, the mornings are too hectic to deal with this and
    by the time we are home in the evening she does not want to wear the
    glasses never mind a patch :-{, any helpful suggestions would be 
    appreciated.  Kyla really is a cute kid with or without glasses.  She
    always notices when other children her age have glasses, I think it
    helps her feel like she is not alone.  
    
    

    
    Well, we're off to UMASS for a second opinion (if all goes well with
    the referral for the HMO) with a "pediatric" Opthmologist on Thursday
    to have Michaels eyes checked again. (Dr. Kavarian..anyone heard of
    him?)
    
    See what they say....
    
    Chris
    

    
    Well...we've had the second visit and the results are the same. But I
    am very glad we took the time to get the second opinion anyways. It was
    a whole different experience than with the first dr. The people at
    Umass were wonderful, from the receptionist, nurse, consulting Dr, and 
    finally the doctor himself. They were all great with kids and really
    treated Michael like a little "person" than just a "kid" with his
    mother.
    
    Its still all hard for me to comprehend, but from what I understood
    yesterday, they are saying Michael is farsighted in both eyes (but said
    that most kids are to some extent?), and that his crossing eye is not a
    matter of a "lazy" eye, for with that diagnosis, both eyes don't see
    equally, one is stroner than the other.  In Michaels case, both of his
    eyes see equally. The crossing is just kind of a "minor defect" that is
    happening (no real REASON), but should be able to be corrected with 
    glasses.  It was explained that if we didn't try the glasses now, it
    could stay permanantly crossed. And if the glasses help (stop it from 
    crossing) it should only be a temporary situation and he shouldn't need
    them for very long. He said that the surgery to correct this type of
    problem wasn't 100% effective and that it (the surgery) can sometimes 
    cause the eyes to turn "out" a couple of years later. So they try and 
    solve the problem with glasses first.
    
    I'm still (the only one) having a tough time dealing with it, but am 
    trying to get over it. I can't explain my feelings, its just hard to
    think of covering up those beautiful brown "shining" eyes w/EXTRA LONG
    eyelashes. I've always LOVED looking at his eyes "shine" (like his dad,
    when happy, they really SPARKLE!)   No one seems to understand how I
    feel, my friends/family, so its not worth talking to anyone about it 
    until I get over it and accept it. But for my son, I will do whatever
    it takes!  Maybe if I wore glasses myself it'd be easier I don't know.
    
    Thanks for all the replies and pointers.
    Another crisis solved! (with the support of PARENTING noters!)
    
    Chris
    

    Chris,
    
    Look at it this way.  Since he's farsighted, the glasses wil enhance
    the look of his eyes by making them bigger.  If he were nearsighted, it
    would make them appear smaller.
    
    Cheryl

Re: .59

Chris,

I know what you are feeling.  I went through the same thing when I found out
a little more than a year ago that Nicole (now almost) 3 needed glasses.
It is hard to express or make people understand the feeling that your
child (for lack of a better term) is not perfect.  Most people say you
should be greatful that it was caught early and can be corrected with
no long term problems.  For that, I am greatful but it was still hard
to adjust to the fact that my child needed glasses.

Now a year later I am feeling better about the situation.  The Dr. and
the optomitrist told me that because she could see better with the glasses
she would WANT to wear them and would only take a short time for her
to get used to them.  HA..I still have to pratically bribe her to wear
them some days.  

The other thing I noticed was that the eye turning in got much worse after
she got her glasses (when she wasn't wearing the glasses that is).  I
called the opthomologist and was told this was not unusual.  Anyone else
have this experience??

Barbara

    
    Sorry its taken me so long to get back in here, been out on STD due to
    back problems: Anyways....
    
    Well, we got Michael fitted for his glasses not long after my last
    message, (what a horror show that was!!)...we picked out a gold wired
    rimmed pair. The first 2 months he wouldn't keep them on for more than
    20 mins (after a bribe) without ripping them off his face. It was
    always a battle! Around the last week of May we had to find new daycare
    and I didn't bother sending them with him because I didn't want her to
    have to do a constant battle with him until we got him to wear them
    more at night for us, and where it was a new enviroment and also I was
    about to undergo some surgery, there were so many "tough" factors
    entering into his life at the time I didn't want to overload him or
    PUSH them on him. After the second week, the provider asked me to send
    them with him because she was noticing his vision really suffering and 
    thought she'd give it a try..and WHAM! Within a week he was keeping
    them on all day! I think he started to notice a difference too. 
    (It was also just his second week there and she can be very firm, and
     he probably didn't know her well enough yet to want to fight back w/her!)
    
    So its been about a month and a half that he's been wearing them pretty
    regularly... I've gotten a bit used to them now myself. Some days its a 
    battle (and he knows he can get away with more from MOM and dad than
    w/his provider)...but he's doing really well. I'm so proud of him. Its
    so funny to see him run across the lawn, glasses sliding down his nose,
    he looks up at me (glasses on the tip of his nose) and pushes them up
    all by himself.  He's getting so bag!
    
    Thank god they are guaranteed for one year..he's already pulled the
    nose pads off once, chewed on the ear straps, and scratched the heck 
    out of them. (I thought I paid for scrath resistant!) In fact they are
    so scratched now I need to bring them in again.
    
    We were at a birthday party last week where there was "4" boys all with
    glasses! It was funny to see Mike "check them out"! All had the same 
    problems Michael has (crossing,far-sighted, etc).
    
    And yes, his eyes do look BIGGER with the glasses on. 
    
    Now, if we could just get them to fit better (nose,ears) we'd be all
    set.
    
    Chris
    

Chris,

There is no reason that those glasses shouldn't be fitting him properly. 
Bring him back to the optometrist, and tell them to do their job properly
and fit the glasses to Michael.  I've worn glasses since I was 8 months
old, and never had them slipping and sliding because I had an excellent
optometrist who could fit them to me on the first try.  But sometimes it
takes a bit of adjustment which is what you're paying the optometrist back.

Also, if they don't fit him properly, that may be why he's trying to take
them off as he notices that they're moving, and they're getting in his
way.

I'd just take him back and have them fitted again.

    
    Yes Cathy, I do plan on bringing them in to get fitted again.
    He's just been so "difficult" at the eye dr's I guess I've been trying
    to avoid it. He's wearing them, but he's still not "thrilled" with them
    so we have to not mention them when they are on (he forgets) and try
    not to have to put them on & off too much. I think thats why they
    aren't fitting well to start with, because he was such h*ll to get them
    to even try them on in the beginning.
    
    I hoping to bring them in this week, after I pack my office. (been
    unfortunatly TFSO'd) :-(
    
    Chris
    

    I have a question as relates to childhood cataracts and glaucoma.
    
    My pedi has requested that I have AJ's eyes checked every 6 months, I
    find this seems to be bit of overkill, and have settled for once a year
    unless I see some obvious need for it.
    
    Aparently this is necessary for children who have had "significant"
    amounts of steroid doses given in early childhood.  AJ fits into this
    category due to his asthma, and several of them requiring frequent and
    extended periods on prednisone (steriods) from infancy up to current
    times.
    
    I thought both conditions could be seen without a machine, and his
    vision appears to be fine, judging that he just doesn't miss a thing!
    Has anyone had any experience with either disease in childhood?
    
    I hate putting him through this even once, let alone twice a year.  He
    goes into a total panic when anyone put ANY kind of drops in his eyes,
    let alone these drops that tend to make everything distorted and
    daylight so uncomfortable.
    
    The eye doctor is good with kids, he is infact my pedi's husband, but
    as many things as AJ has had to endure, this is a real fight.  It takes
    at least two of us to hold him down literally, to get the drops in. 
    Not pleasant for me to deal with.
    
    Lyn

Lyn,
	Is the opthomologist a pediatric specialist or does he see more adults
than kids? I've been through the eye stuff (although for different reasons) with
my 2 oldest kids since they were born (13 and nearly 15 years ago). We initially
used the HMO's opthomologist who really didn't have a clue about how to deal
with young kids. A neighbor, who happened to be an optometrist, turned us on
to a pediatric opthomologist. The difference was like night and day. 

Mike

	Lyn,

	Even if the conditions can be diagnosed visually, the drops
	are used to aid in what the doctor can see.  Seems a small
	price to pay to protect your son's vision.

	Karen

My mother has full blown glaucoma and cataracts, has two lens implants, and 
takes drugs to help relieve the eye pressure. I have borderline glaucoma, 
and have to be tested twice a year. While onset doesn't usually happen 
overnight, it's important to diagnose and treat glaucoma early or it may not 
be treatable with drugs. I can't stand the eye drops, either, but it's a small
price to pay for vision. Maybe your pedi or the local Lion's Club can 
recommend a pediatric opthalmologist. I think there are a few at UMass Med.

Good luck,

Chris

    My opthamologist is great with kids!  He is married to my son's pedi,
    so that has to  be a plus in itself.  I've seen newborns to senior
    citizens in his office, he doesn't have to be a pedi specialist he is
    just a good doctor.  As an aside my husband has a medical condition
    which has to be diagnosed with those dilation drugs, and he is one of
    the few in the area that is skilled with his disease.
    
    I was pretty much wondering if anyone had experienced childhood eye
    diseases, not so much what to do about a doctor.
    
    Lyn
    (who's got cloudy thinking today!)

    Looked through other two archived 'PARENTING' notes files...but found 
    nothing...
    
    Looking for advice on '3 yr olds and Glasses'...
    
    My son will be getting glasses next week...also will
    have to wear an eye-patch for 2hrs a day.  Looking for general
    advice or experiences on things like...
    
    	- Advice on 'patching'...
    	- How to approach it in a positive manner
    	- How to keep from losing them...
	- Best types of frames...
    	- Opticians that are especially good with children 
    	   (we
    	   live in Westford, work in Acton...but traveling up to 35 mins not
    	   really a problem
    	- Any other 'advice'...
    
    Thanks,
    Karen

I went thorugh the patching with 2 of my kids. 

1. Get frames that formfit around the ears.

2. Ask the opthomologist if he can prescribe
   a fuzzed lens as opposed to the patch. It's
   really tough to get young kids (especially
   boys) to wear the patches.

3. If the atches must be worn try and make a
   game of it. With my son we used to play
   pirate alot! My daughter didn't really go
   for that but she didn't have to wear them as long.

4. They will be teased by their peers. It's unavoidable
   but you can help avoid the trauma by being nonchalant
   about both the glasses and the patches. 

Karen,

My daughter Paige is 4 1/2 and she has had glasses--and a patch--for
four weeks today.  She is very far-sighted in one eye, a tiny bit in
the other eye.

I was DREADING it.  Paige is a very--shall we say "enthusiastic"?--kid
who is as stubborn and rough as any child you've ever met.  I had
visions of never being able to find the glasses, which would be
hopelessly broken and scratched within a week, and having terrible
battles with her to wear the glasses, let alone the patch.

Hasn't happened.  She picked out her own lenses (pale pink with Minnie
Mouses [or is that Minnie Mice?] on the sides and a cool Minnie Mouse
case) and she looks absolutely adorable in them--which she will be the
first to tell you.  We did pay extra for scratch-resistant lenses. 
(BTW, they also have blue ones with Mickey Mouse.)

While we were waiting for the glasses to come in, we got a couple of books 
    about getting glasses, which she really liked.

She immediately took to the glasses--I guess because she really can
see better with them!--, leaves them on all the time, and is enjoying
having responsibility for putting them in their special spot at night.   

The patch was a little tougher.  Our instructions are to cover the
good eye for _four_ hours a day at home while she is doing "safe"
things.  Paige is a "televidiot" (i.e., she would watch TV all day if
we let her); this is the first time that's worked to our advantage.
We immediately instituted a "no patch, no TV" rule.  We try to leave
the patch on for two hours in the morning and two at night (6-8, 6-8).
It's hard because she's often not home and awake for four hours.

The first week, she practically had her nose on the TV, with tears running
down her face ("But I can't seeee!") and she wouldn't or couldn't do
anything else with the patch on.  We were lucky if we got an hour a
day in and didn't push it beyond that.

By the second week, she was much happier about it and by last week,
she was reading, playing, and walking around with the patch on.
Partly, it was because she was getting used/resigned to the patch, but
partly it was because the patch is doing its job and her weak eye is
already much stronger.  She had a checkup after three weeks and there
was a marked improvement. 

We haven't had any problem with her getting teased.  I think it's
worse when they're older.  All the adults Paige encounters (teachers,
relatives, neighbors) have been quick to tell her how great she looks
and I think the kids pick up on that.  Her attitude ("I have new
glasses; don't I look cute?") helps too, I think.  Oh, yes, and we
made it very clear to her older sister--who is at that teasing
age--that she better only say nice things about the glasses.

So, the moral of the story is let him have some control in the
process (picking frames, etc.), let him know what's going on, have a
positive attitude that he can pick up on, and be even more stubborn
than him when it comes to the patch!

Sorry to be so long-winded; hope it helps.

-Tracy
    
    

   This is sort of my own experience with glasses (though I didn't start
   as young), and what I've seen with some friends whose son is in the
   same situation...
   
   It took the little one some time to get used to the glasses, and some
   time to actually want to keep them on all the time, but eventually he
   realized that he could see better with them on, so the glasses are no
   longer that much of an issue.  (He's just turned 3 this past week, I
   believe, and he's had glasses probably less than 2 months.)
   
   Not sure about the approach... I imagine if there are other family
   members who wear glasses that you might be able to create some sort of
   "team" there.  Just being able to see better is probably a little hard
   to explain, especially when you're probably not exactly sure just what
   he's seeing now, but experience will help him learn that.
   
   Not sure about (not) losing them... maybe velcro behind the ears!  :-)
   
   Frames... I'd suggest that you look at something with spring loaded
   hinges.  They have the ability to flex out without snapping the hinge.
   Other than that, I'd say letting him pick out the color and general
   style may help them be more acceptable.
   
   My friends live in Harvard.. if you like, I'll ask them who they saw
   for eye doctors..
   
   They ended up getting a patch for the glasses themselves, and not for
   his face.  Not sure about the specifics of why he needs the patch so
   it may not be appropriate for your son, but its worth asking.  Also, I
   notice that he has pictures on his patch - not sure if he has multiple
   covers, but this can certainly be a way to make it more fun.
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom

    Paige's patch also goes on her glasses, rather than her face (is that
    SOP now?) and again she picked out the ones she wanted.  They're soft
    and blue with a picture on them.  She got a package of two, one with a 
    star and one with a pink truck.
    
    T.
    
      

    I originally started this note some time ago and thought it was time
    for an update.  Kyla got new glasses yesterday.  The Dr said her eyes
    were improving.  My question is as follows:  her old prescription
    lenses were 4.5 and 7.5, her new ones are 6.5 and 7.5, I can
    understand that the closer the numbers the better but aren't lower 
    numbers better ?  The lense will be thicker does not this mean she does
    not see as well ?  My husband took her to the eye Dr and for some
    reason he did not ask the questions which I would have.  Also, her
    original glasses had the nose pads which really hurt her little nose.
    Her new glasses do not have the nose pads and she likes them a lot
    better.
     

    My 14-year old son, who has worn glasses for 5 years now, announced 
    that he wanted to try contacts.  A few years ago we took him to be 
    fitted for contacts, and it ended up in a crying session for him.
    (Trying to put the contacts in his eyes was a very painful, physical 
    and emotional, process for him.)  

    Can folks share some suggestions how he might be prepped to have a 
    successful experience this time around?  We live in Natick, MA, so can 
    anyone suggest a person who works especially well with youngsters in my 
    area?

- Jim

    I got my contacts when I was 14, so I can relate to what he is going
    through.
    
    The bottom line is that he has to WANT the contacts ENOUGH to put up
    with the discomfort until he adjusts to them.  They are, after all,
    foreign objects and ones' body must adjust.
    
    If he is so so about wanting them then stop now.
    
    IMO the discomfort was not THAT great.... roughly equivalent to having
    soap in your eyes.... until you start to adjust.
    
    I can't recommend any doctors, sorry.
    
    But, for those who WANT them the answer is to just stick with it... 
    gradually increasing wearing time as you can.
    
    Jeff

    I got my first contact lenses at the age of 19 and I really WANTED
    them!  I had tried hard lenses first but couldn't do it. So when soft 
    became cheap enough for me to afford, I went with them.  I loved them. 
    I abused and used them!!  I will not go back to glasses if I can
    absolutely help it.  I do not feel them at all.  I currently use
    disposables.
    
    As said earlier - your son will have to put up with some discomfort at
    first.  I was very timid about having someone touch my eyes, add drops
    or anything like that.  The only way my doctor could put wetting drops
    in my eyes (for use with hard lenses) was to sneak up with the bottle
    and squirt from a distance and hope he hit me.  When I decided to use
    the disposables, I would practice with saline drops, touch my eyeball
    (with clean fingers) as if to be putting the lenses in, etc.
    
    I bought my first lenses with Cambridge Eye in Framingham off route 9. 
    I don't know if they are still around - but this was back in the early
    80's.  I now get mine in NH from my eye doctor.
    
    His best bet is to spend time with the eye doctor or clinician working
    to gain a level of confidence, and experience handling them.
    
    -sandy
    

    I first got contacts when I was 14, too, and I agree with Jeff's reply. 
    But a hundred years ago when I was 14  :-)  all they had was hard
    contacts; now they have soft ones and gas-permeable "hard" ones and the
    fork-out-the-dough-every-two-weeks ones.  I'm sure they inflict
    varying degrees and types of discomfort at first.
    
    I remember sitting in the doctor's office for 1/2 hour (well, I
    *remember* an hour, but it probably wasn't) with tears running down my
    face the whole time.  The tears, of course, floated the contacts so
    they moved all over the eye, stimulating more tears, etc.  But I really
    really wanted them, and I was going to prove to the world that I had
    what it takes to get accustomed to them.  The word at the time was that
    some people just can't tolerate 'em (I'm still not sure whether I
    believe it's a difference in physical sensitivity or attitude).
    
    I still have the hard ones, chiefly because I have no desire to "pinch"
    (softly, I know, but it's a pinching motion) the soft ones out of my 
    eyes - also I don't want to go through the mad-scientist cleaning 
    ritual.  Hard ones are much lower maintenance, but soft ones are 
    supposed to be more comfortable during wear.
    
    And with hard contacts, you MUST stick to the wearing-time-per-day
    schedule, because believe me, you *don't* want a scratched cornea!  The
    doctor gets extremely irritated with you :-) and takes you off contacts
    for a month, and every time you cry the salt stings  :-(
    
    Leslie                                                              

    It all depends on the lenses.  I'm currently on  my third or fourth
    brand of soft lenses.  By far, they have been the easiest.  You get new
    lenses every 3 months.  There is only 1 bottle of solution - you store,
    rinse and clean all with the same stuff. No enzyme cleaner to deal
    with. No boiler to deal with.  And I've never had a problem with
    stinging, or the "soap in the eyes" feeling.  (and I have with other
    brands). 

    Talk to the Dr.  Find out what types of lenses are available.  Some
    types of eye problems need either hard or semi-hard lenses to correct. 
    Some people are allergic to some of the soft lens chemicals. Try and
    find out what the problem was the last time.  If it was that you son
    felt the lenses in his eyes all the time, you might need to try a
    different brand.  If it was being squeamish about putting things in/out
    of his eyes, they practice is just about the only thing that will help.

    Hope this helps...

    marianne

    I too got contacts when I was about 14.  My older sister had them, and
    I really wanted them because I was tired of wearing glasses.  I
    started out with hard because soft ones were just too expensive.  I did
    try soft a few years ago, but I just couldn't get used to them, so I
    went back to hard. I tried various soft ones - some as thin as Saran
    Wrap!, but I too didn't like having to pinch them out of my eye. Now I 
    wear the gas permeable ones, and they are very comfortable.  I started out 
    wearing my contacts for one hour a day, and increased it by an hour every 
    day.  It was wierd at first, but once you wear them and get used to them, 
    you don't even feel them. I also got them on the recommendation of my
    doctor because my eyes were starting to get pretty bad, and by wearing
    the contacts it helped my eyes from getting any worse.  
    
    I can't help you out with an eye doctor as I got my first lenses out in
    Albuquerque, but try to find one that is patient and will explain all
    of the different lenses to you - trust me, it makes all the difference
    in the world!  
    
    Good luck!
    Barb 

	Got mine at 14, too.

	I started with hard lenses, and have since moved to gas permeable.
	
	When I heard about all the cleaning with soft lenses, along with
	them bending in half and what not, I couldn't for the life of
	me figure out why anyone would wear soft lenses.

	I started out with 4 hours a day for a few days, then 8 hours a
	day.  I don't remember any discomfort, but then again, I was
	very motivated (I always hated my glasses, both for comfort and
	for looks).  

	Karen

    I've been wearing contacts myself for about 10 years and never want to
    go back to wearing glasses if I can help it.  I wear the disposable
    ones and most of the time don't even know that they are there. 
    However, my first contacts were the soft, clean-every-day ones that
    took 3 tries to get the right fit that was comfortable.  
    
    I too have found that some rewetting drops and storage solutions tend
    to irritate my eyes.  If the eyes are at all sensitive to these
    solutions, it's just a matter of trying a bunch of them before you find
    the right brand that is comfortable.  
    
    One important thing that I can think of that you might want to suggest
    to your son is to make sure his hands are as clean as can be before
    attempting to put in or take out contacts.  Soap residue can also
    irritate so he needs to make sure that he has rinsed all soap off too.
    
    When I first attempted the disposable contacts, most places seemed to
    offer free trial pairs.  I don't know if they still do that but it
    might be worth checking.  
    
    Jean
    

re: .76

Are they for soccer?

If that's the case, then you're over one big hump; he's really motivated to 
make wearing them successful.  I would think that contacts are a major 
advantage over even sports glasses.

I have soft contacts and love them.  I had trouble at first, but only because 
I misunderstood the optometrist, and kept trying to put them in backwards.  I 
also had trouble on occasion with tearing (ripping) them.  But other than 
that they're wonderful.

I think that 14 is a lot different than 8 or 9 or however old he was last 
time, especially if he's really motivated to have them.  By that age, he is 
more dextrous, and able to overcome the temporary (for me it only lasts a 
couple of seconds) feeling of having something in his eye.  Other than that, 
the only way I can tell if they are in is whether my vision is clear or 
fuzzy.

The person who fits them can show you some tricks; the ones that work for me 
are to put a bit of saline solution on the contact, put it in place with my 
index finger while holding the eyelid open with my other index finger, move 
it around slightly, pull the eyelid out so that it doesn't catch, then close 
my eye and open it slowly.  I find a portable makeup mirror (backlit) is 
very helpful.  It's easier to put them in with my face pointed down than 
forward.

Clay

    I got my contacts when I was 13.  The one of the first questions the
    Optometrist asked "Was I Vain?".  Did I believe that contacts would make
    me look better.  Apparently those who strongly believe this are more
    likely to try harder to adjust.  At the time I wore gold wire rim
    glasses and had silver braces - Boy did I hate those glasses.  I wore
    hard contacts for 10 years and then developed an intolerance for them.
    I have tried gas-perms and soft but dry eyes forced me back to glasses. 
    I am hoping to try contacts again next year-- maybe something will come
    out that I can wear.                         

All you folks are great!  Thanks for the information, and I'll pass it 
along to Jamie.

And, yes...  soccer is the motivation.  He was told last summer by the US
U17 coach, Roy Rees, that he had two strikes against him as a potential
top-level player...  One was size and the other was the fact that he wore 
his glasses when he played.  He has to be patient about size (genetics 8^[),
but he's now motivated about his glasses.

I'll let you know how he makes out.

- Jim

    This is probably not the problem your son had trying on his lenses, but
    you should be aware...  It's possible that he could have had an
    allergic reaction to the lenses.
    
    For the first couple of years that I wore contacts, I had problems with
    eye irritation all of the time.  My eye doctor recommended that when my
    eyes and lids got sore, I keep the lenses out for a couple of days, and 
    use an eye rinse/lotion.  Sometimes it seemed like I was two days with, 
    two days without, all the time!
    
    When I moved to Southern New Hampshire, I tried another optomitrist. 
    I told her about this problem, and she suggested I might be ALLERGIC
    to the material that the lens is made of.  Apparently soft contacts are
    made of several different materials.  
    
    Anyway, she had me try another brand.  In addition, like a lot of other
    people, my eyes are sensitive to the preservatives in most rewetting
    solutions.  So, I also switched to using saline rewetting drops, which
    you can get in individual use sizes.
    
    I couldn't believe the difference in comfort!  Unlike before, there
    were even times when I forgot I had them in!  I have to admit that I 
    don't wear my contacts much these days.  I think that having had that 
    discomfort for so long, my glasses just seem easier.

Sports is probably the best reason for wearing them, because to begin with, 
most opthamologists recommend leaving then in only a few hours.  That's easy 
to do for sporting events, but harder if it's appearance you care about.  If 
he has no problems with them, then he may choose to wear them full time.

Of course, if he hasn't really gotten into girls yet, soccer may become 
secondary as a reason for contacts; in fact soccer may become secondary, 
period.  :^)

Clay

I got my lenses at age 30 and almost gave up.  For me, it wasn't so
much a matter of "comfort" as much as "not doing it right".   Getting
the lenses to go in and come out without destroying them (good thing
I was paying for them myself and could afford the number of pairs I 
wrecked!) was an extremely frustrating experience.

If your son is used to things coming "naturally" and doing well, then
dealing with contact lenses is "unnatural" and doesn't come easy.
If this is the case, then what helped me through it finally was
constant (I do mean *constant*) reassurance that it was OK and
normal to fumble with the lenses for a LONG time.  Eventually it
sunk in, and now I can't imagine life without the lenses.

I hope any of this helps.

bruce

    Lenses were first recommended to me as a way to see better.
    Literally, it was like having lived in a flat world, and finally
    being welcomed into three dimensions.
    However, Since I have a rather acute case of asigmatism, I was
    told that soft lenses would do ZERO for this problem. It would correct
    the myopia, but ignore the asigmatism.
    My problem with the hard lenses were that they were not fitted
    correctly for me. Once this was determined (by ANOTHER optometrist),
    I was so fed up of the itchiness, the light-sensitivity (I live
    behind photo-grey glasses), and the tearing that I let it go
    for a few years.
    Tried again when the gas-permeable lenses came out (some years
    later) and while I had less problems with them, I still could not
    wear them for more than 8 hours without looking like a red-eyed
    ghoul. 
    It was finally determined that I simply was one of the minority 
    that COULD NOT WEAR CONTACTS, PERIOD. 
    Now here I sit still wearing glasses after 27 years, and, I 
    kind of don't mind. My brother has no problem with lenses at all,
    and he is generally more sensitive and allergic to everything.
    Go figure.
    
    Monica
    (who's perscription has been termed a "lens-grinder's Nightmare")

I've worn since I was 13 years old, and I seem to remember that my first
sessions were also very frustrating.  I got a lot of advice from my mom,
since she'd started wearing them several years earlier.  I seem to remember
that a lot of the frustration was removed by simply making me more comfortable
when I went to see the doctor (like when I wasn't too tired or hungry).  The
eye doctor's office was also removed from the rest of the practice, so I got
a lot of privacy.  Also, I was told up front that the appointment was scheduled
for a fairly wide time slot - this let me know that I wasn't expected to jump
right into them first shot.  Some folks earlier mentioned eye drops and clean
hands, and those are excellent suggestions.  I'd also add that fingernails
should be trim and neat - not an easy task with a 13 year old boy!

Greg B.

My opthamologist used "Joy" (the dishwashing liquid) for us to wash our
hands with.  It apparently left less of a film than other soaps, so the
film wouldn't get on our contacts or in our eyes.

Still, my eyes watered more than anyone else's he had seen.  I got used to
them, though, and wore soft lenses just fine until moving to the dry state of
Colorado.

      Carol

re: .90

>    However, Since I have a rather acute case of asigmatism, I was
>    told that soft lenses would do ZERO for this problem. It would correct
>    the myopia, but ignore the asigmatism.

I was told the same thing, at least as it applies to conventional soft 
lenses.  I was also told that there are soft contacts that correct for 
astigmatisms, but that they are very expensive and difficult to put in, if I 
remember correctly because they have to ba aligned exactly righ (there is a 
top and a bottom).

In my case, I just put up with the fact that my vision is exactly correct in 
my right eye.

Clay

I had contacts specially made for astigmatism.

The lenses were specially made with a "weight" at the bottom to
make sure that they were oriented correctly in the eye.

It did not matter how you put them in, if you put them in upside down
they would correct them selves sicne the weight at the bottom
of the lens slowly turned the lens around (a couple of seconds).


/Malin

    RE:Astigmatism:
    Weighted lenses are the answer, but I am an exceptional
    case in the severity of the condition, in both eyes, with different
    angles, and acute myopia as an added bonus. 
    
    I have decided it is not worth the risk AGAIN.
    
    Monica
    

I am another long time wearer of contacts (25 years).  Started with
hard lenses at 18, developed an intolerance at 34 and switched to 
gas-permeables.  I esentially wear them from the time I get up in 
the morning till the time I go to bed and have been that way since
about 2 weeks after getting them.  My biggest problems as a teen
getting them was *loosing* them!  

My daughter is now 10 and my optometrist and I have discussed putting
Maggie into lenses.  The reason is rather interesting.  He has found 
with his younger patients with myopia (as young as 9) that fitting 
them with gas permeable lenses has arrested the development of the
problem.  I know from my own experience that once I got lenses I kept 
the same perscription for 18 years.

Any noters have young children in contacts?  Hard ones?  Successfully?
In this case my motivation is stronger than hers because of the 
ablility to arrest the deterioration.  She wants them but not that 
badly. She's been in glasses since the age of 6.

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Norma    

    Has the optometrist suggested extended wear? This can eliminate the
    chore of daily cleaning. ALso consider disposible lenses, again, I
    think the hardest thing for anyone (adults & kids) is the upkeep of the
    lenses.  
    
    Gail

A lot of people I know who use extended wear no longer wear them as
extended wear ... just daily wear which are a little kinder to their
eyes ... and clean them every day.

Stuart

I have extended wear.  I started with them about 9 years ago.  I have cleaned
them religiously for 9 years.  Instead of taking them out once a month, I take
them out once a week.  I use heat to clean them.  The funny thing about the 
heat though.....the little heater they give you is pretty useless.  So about
7 years ago I started to boil them in the hard case.  I put them in a small 
pan and just as it begins to boil I take them off the burner.  Funny thing about
this system.....I usually get two years out of each set of contacts.  The doctor
is always amazed at the condition of my lenses when I go in for checkups.  I
have nothing but good things to say about having the contacts and playing
sports.  They are a must!

Michael

 Just wanted to report that my son, Jamie, came home from the eye doctor's 
 office last evening (10:00 pm, egad) holding on tightly to his new bag of 
 contact lenses and assorted goodies.  This was the third two-hour office visit
 that Jamie perservered through practicing putting the contacts into his eyes 
 and removing them.  The doctor wouldn't let him bring the contacts home
 until he could prove that he was capable.  It hasn't been an easy process,
 but I'm really proud of his sticktoitiveness.

 Thanks for the previous replies,

 - Jim

    Seems like a lot of Pink Eye in Western Mass.....gone through
    our family and MANY of our friends.

    We have drops for it.  they dont seem to work very well.  Any
    Suggestions?  When someone in the family got it, should we all
    have started taking drops?  It seems like it is so contagious,
    there was no hope but that we all would get it.

    It seemed to hit each of us differently..from very minor to
    a real swollen lid and LOTS of 'eye weeping'.

    please...suggestions?
    bob

Advise we got from the nurse when our son had conjunctivitis was:

	- wash hands often
	- change pillowcase often
	- wipe 'gueue' from eyes carefully with cotton balls, never
	  wipe both eyes with same cotton ball to prevent from
	  spreading from one eye to other.

	- We used ointment for the first round, when that did not
	  clear the problem after the prescribet 10 days, we got
	  the drops and it worked.

	
/Malin	

    And don't forget the most important prevention item of all.
    
    Don't Share Towels.  Use a fresh one each timefor the person(s)
    afflicted, and wash the towels in very hot water.
    
    Meg

    We just went through this is my house, too.  My son has a sinus
    infection, and I'm sure he contaminated his eyes.  I'm a hand-washer of
    the first magnitude, and still managed to contract it myself.  David
    was put on amoxycillin for 20 days for the sinus infection, and the dr.
    said it would take care of his conjunctivitis without the need for
    ointment or drops.  I used drops.  We went through a LOT of towels (one
    use, into the hamper, hot water and bleach for every wash), but we
    managed to contain it to just ourselves.  My husband and 2 nephews
    (staying with us overnight during this bout) did not contract it. We
    also changed pillow cases daily and tossed them in with the towels to
    be bleached.  David's eyes were much improved after 2 days on the
    amoxy, mine were better after 2 days on the drops.  His doctor also
    suggested that what looks like conjuctivitis is sometime NOT an
    infection but an irritation from backed-up sinuses.  She said you
    should always SEE a doctor unless you are certain you caught it from
    someone else.  For example, I called my doctor, told him my son had it,
    and described the condition to him.  He called in a script for the
    drops and I didn't have to actually see him.  If my eyes had shown the
    same symptoms but I didn't know of anyone with the infection, I should
    have seen a doctor for an exam.
    Sarah

    
    
    		Does anyone know when a what age true eye color is
    		noticable. My son is 6 month old and we still can't
    		quite tell what color they are.. They have a grayish/
    	        brownish/greenish color. On the dark side.. 
    
    		I have brown eyes and my wife has blue/green eyes.
    		Could it be he has a combination of both of us.
    		Do eye colors mix that much or will they continue
    		to change, even after 6 month?
    
    
    			Bill 
                            
    		

Yes, brown is dominant, but if you have a brown and a blue gene, then you
could pass that on to get a blue-eyed child. That's why 2 blue-eyed people
can't have a brown-eyed child, but 2 brown-eyed people can have a blue-eyed
child. 

I'm not sure when final eye color shows up.  My husband has hazel eyes, and I
have brown eyes.  When we had our twins, my son's eyes were dark brown from
day 1. My daughter looks like she will get Dad's eyes as they change daily
from gray to green to greenish brown.  I knew we had the possibility of having
non-brown-eyed children because my brother's kids have hazel eyes, so I know
Mom passed along her blue gene to at least him (Mom's parents were blue/brown
eyed and out of 6 kids, only 2 had brown eyes).

My sitter says that she had hazel eyes til she was around 5 years old when
they changed to dark brown. I'd sure like to know when the kids get their
final eye color. I figure if Jessica didn't get the long luxurious eye lashes
(Brad got them), then maybe she can get those beautiful hazel eyes her father
has.

Cathy

    
    
    
    	Funny you mentioned long eyelashes on your SON and not your
    	daughter.. My son has the longest lashes I have ever seen.
    	With his eyes open they touch his eyebrows.

    Both my boys have blue eyes (some perspective:  all the females in my
    family - mom, sisters, daughters - have brown eyes; all the males - my
    dad, all brother-in-laws, all sons - have blue eyes).  And luckily they
    both have my long eyelashes, instead of dad's short skimpy (but don't
    get twisted into the eye) lashes.
    
    The jury is still out on my 6 month old nephew.
    
    -sandy
    

re .105

At 6 months my first child's eye color was very similar to what you 
describe.  They are presently a greyish hazel with a hint of light brown.
Each year they seem to pick up a bit more of a brown tint.  She is
almost 4.

My second child has dark blue eyes with no hint of any other color - yet.
She is 7 months old.  I suspect she will always have blue eyes.

My husband and I both have dark blue/green eyes.  But my left eye has a
splash of brown in it.  So much for the old "brown is dominant" rule
we all learned.

- Carol

    Carol,
    
    Yes, they say that brown eyes dominate.  But tell that to my blonde
    hair, blue eye three and a half year old.
    
    You wouldn't believe how many people stop us and ask if he is adopted. 
    My husband has dark brown hair and brown eyes.  I have brown hair and
    brown eyes.( I had blonde hair as a child.) Then there is my oldest son
    who is seven and he also has brown hair and brown eyes. 
    
    This reminds me of a long time ago, I went to see a woman who could
    reach people in your past, present and future.  She told me that there
    would be a blonde hair child following me all around.  And now, nine
    years later it is true.
    
    Well, anyway, you could look at what color eyes your father and your
    husbands mother have.  This should give you some idea if they will stay
    blue.   My dad had blue eyes and my M-I-L has hazel eyes.
    
    Well,  sorry for rambling.
    
    Lillian
    

    
    Hmmm.....mine are blue, and so are my husband's.  My dad's are
    brown, and my mom's are blue.  His mom's are blue (I think), &
    I think his father's were brown.  My 2 sisters have dark brown
    eyes, and my brother has hazel.  I guess that means that the baby
    will most likely have blue........
    
    Lynne

    As .0 points out, a blue-eyed product of brown-eyed parents doesn't
    mean brown isn't really dominant; it means you each have a recessive
    blue gene.    
    
    My black-haired, brown-eyed, olive-skinned husband didn't share any of
    his coloring with my blonde, blue-eyed, fair-skinned daughter!
    
    I don't know how late eye color can change, but my mother always said
    that my older brother's eyes were a brilliant blue until he was two,
    then they started to change (to gray).  She also told me that it WAS
    fair that my two brothers got the long, dark lashes while I got short
    blonde ones because I could always wear mascara and they couldn't!
    
    -Tracy
    

I'd like to throw another monkey-wrench in on the
color dominance theory.

I know a person with one green eye and one brown
eye.  So much for Mendelian genetics...

My husband and I both have green eyes, and my
children both have blue eyes, so far.  My mother
has brown, my father has blue, and we can't
remember what colors my husband's parents were.

Actually, I remember my genetics professor saying
that only a few traits follow the Mendelian model,
and most of them are found only in sweet peas...


Pat

	Re: recessive blue genes

	Are those the genes the refridgerator repair men wear ?? ;-)

	Re: eyes

	Emily's eye have still not settled on a permanent color.  I've
	seen flecks of green in her mostly brown eyes, but some days they
	just look grey.

	Dad has brown eyes, I've got hazel.

    >Emily's eye have still not settled on a permanent color.
    
    
    
    		How old is Emily?

    Recessive jeans--hee, hee.
    
    I was taught that eye color is one of the things that works (except for
    rare exceptions like the one green eye/one brown eye combo) with
    Mendelian genetics, but you clump all non-brown (blue, green, grey,
    hazel) together. (At least in the sixth grade version, so my grey-eyed
    Dad and blue-eyed Mom were both considered blue.)  
    
    In our family, we have a Br-Bl and a Bl-Bl that yielded a Br-Bl and a
    Bl-Bl.  Fun stuff.
    
    T.
      
    

	Sorry, Emily's 19 months.

	>Sorry, Emily's 19 months.
    
    	 You don't have to apologize. 19 months is a fine age. :^)
    
    
    	 Jodi-

    Charlotte's eyes settled into their deep brown very early (2 mo).
     
    We have a lot of dark brown-eyed blondes in the family, all from
    my maternal grandmother. Charlotte, and Gram's other 3 great
    granddaughters all have the same colouring - unique to their generation
    except for me (I share this colouring with them). The brown is
    from the maternal line, but the blonde hair is consistantly from
    the other parents' side.
    
    Alan has green eyes (parents both blue) and I have those dark brown
    eyes (father blue, mother brown). My brother turned out to have that
    variable shade of hazel all through his childhood, only as an
    adult did it seem to settle on a more homogeneous hazel tone. 
    
    Monica

I got really interested in eye genetics because I wanted to bear a blue- or
green-eyed child.  My eyes are hazel - mostly brown, with green.  They can
appear anywhere from brown to green to mixed because the yellow pigment in
someone's eye is on the back of the eye and reflects through the iris. 
Therefore hazel and green eyed people's eye color varies; it depends on how the
light is hitting their eyes. 

The genes for brown and nonyellow are dominant, so if you have one of each
of the dominant and nondominant of each type, then you are not likely to
show it.  Using B for brown, b for blue (recessive), Y for nonyellow (dominant),
and y for yellow, then you could get something like:

	BbYy - brown eyes with both recessives masked
	Bbyy - hazel eyes
	bbYy - blue eyes
	bbyy - green eyes
   
Of course, you can also have other variations on this.  I believe that my eyes
are Bbyy.  My mother has Bb and at least one y.  My father has bb and at least
one Y.  Since I got green, that would mean he also had a y (yellow).

I used to ask my doctor constantly how long it would be before I could believe
that Evan's eyes would stay blue.  As I recall, she kept telling me somewhere
around 4 or 6 months.  I would guess from most of these stories that the 
eye *shade* may change (or the amount of the varous colors that come through), 
but the eye color mostly stays about the same.  Evan's eyes now are a kind of
gray-blue rather than the shade of blue they used 
to be.

     Carol

    Eye colour may also change during life as a result of an
    eye-related health problem. My father had wonderfully blue eyes
    until he got glaucoma, around 58. One of his eyes had already
    become a very colourless grey as a result.
    
    Monica

Not to argue, but:


>	BbYy - brown eyes with both recessives masked
>	Bbyy - hazel eyes
>	bbYy - blue eyes
>	bbyy - green eyes


Both my husband and I have green eyes, so we both must be
bbyy.

But my daughters both have blue eyes, so they must be
bbYy.


So where did they get the 'Y'?  (And I *swear* it wasn't
the FedEx delivery man...)


Pat

<                      <<< Note 78.122 by GOOEY::ROLLMAN >>>

I had a feeling I'd get corrected.  :-)

I have no idea, Pat.  This was what I was told some years ago by a person
with a biology Masters degree, and this had seemed accurate from what little
life experience I had with it.  Obviously there are other factors as well.  
Of course, I could also be *totally* wrong.  :-) 

       Carol

>I have no idea, Pat.  This was what I was told some years ago by a person
>with a biology Masters degree, and this had seemed accurate from what little
>life experience I had with it.  Obviously there are other factors as well.  
>Of course, I could also be *totally* wrong.  :-) 


On the other hand, just occasionally the gene process goes totally wrong
and you end up with an albino ....  and from what I can see, blue eyes is
the equivalent of albino ...  no y gene, n b gene.

Stuart

    Re: .105  I asked my son's pedi when he was around 4 mos old, with 
    beautiful blue eyes and long lashes, if his eyes would change color 
    (since I have brown eyes), and he replied they could change up to a year. 
    
    Now that I look back on it, and have noticed other babies eyes, it
    seems to me that infants that have really blue eyes (like my son has
    - he'll be 1 in two weeks) end up with blue or green eyes, and infants 
    that have dark blue/grey/brown eyes end up with brown eyes. Also, I've
    noticed that some babies have bluish/green eyes when they're 1 but by
    the time they're 2 they have green eyes (my nephew has green eyes now -
    he's almost 3). 
    
    My son gets lots of compliments on his big blue eyes and people
    enivitably ask me where he got them. I should say the milk-man. :-)
    But I think from the way things worked out that I must have a "b" from
    my father and a "B" from my mother. My "b" combined with one of my
    husband's "b"s (he has blue eyes). So, that's really where my son got
    his blue eyes from. :-)
    
    Karen

    This is somewhere between this note, and the one on *dumb* things
    people say to parents of newborns.  I remember proudly announcing
    AJ's "vital statistics", including his very light blond hair and
    *blue* eyes.  Most reactions from "the older generation" was 
    something along the lines of "ya sure, just wait, they will
    change!"  Towhat for heavens sake?  I have blue, my father had 
    blue, my husband has blue, both sides of his family is all blue,
    He kept kiddding me that if they turned out anything else BUT blue 
    he was going to beat me into confessing who the real father was!
    
    re a couple back, someone mentioned a relative with eyes of two
    different colors...  I remember an older relative telling me that
    people with two different colored eyes was an indicator of 
    heart disease.  Take it for what its worth.  The person who told
    me did, in fact have heart disease.  Go figure.
    
    Lyn
    (who son has eye lashes longer than hers!)

    
    
    Is it an absolute that two blue-eyed parents must produce blue-eyed
    children?
    
    Of my seven siblings, one has green eyes, two have hazel, one has deep
    brown eyes, and the rest have blue. We all resemble each other greatly,
    with characteristics from both parents - so I feel I can safely omit the
    milkman... :-)
    
    My parents are both blue-eyed.
    
    
                                                      
    ??
    Jamd

    The way I learned it is that blue is recessive - therefore, if you HAVE
    blue eyes, your other gene must be blue.  You can have brown eyes and
    carry a recessive blue, thus allowing a blue-eyed baby.
    
    For example, I have brown eyes, Dan has blue eyes.  His two sons have
    blue eyes, thus I must have a recessive blue gene.  Al has brown eyes,
    and our son has blue eyes, thus we both must have a recessive blue
    gene.  
    
    In order to have non-brown eyes, you must not carry the brown gene, as
    that gene is dominant, and would thus cause you to actually HAVE brown
    eyes.  
    
    Not sure how hazel and green play in, and which is dominant there.
    
    Maybe the mailman?? 
     (-: (-; (-:

    So..... both my husband I have brown eyes but one son has brown eyes
    and one blue.. how?
    

    Each parent carries 2 genes.  Your child can get any 2 of these genes.
    
    If you both have brown eyes, and you have a blue eyed child, then you
    both must have a recessive blue gene.  Therefore, your "eye" genes are
    1 blue, 1 brown.  Since the brown is dominant you have brown eyes. 
    Your husband's "eye" genes must be the same, 1 blue, 1 brown, the brown
    being dominant, to give him brown eyes.
    
    You each contribute ONE of your genes to your child.  Either one,
    doesn't matter which.  Maybe blue, maybe brown, it's a 50/50 shot.
    
    They did it as a chart in school .... I'll try to replicate;
    
    In the center is what your kid will end up with, depending on which 
    gene the parent gives
    
    			MOM
    
    		Blue gene     Brown gene
              -----------------------------
    D   blue  |   blue      | brown       |
    A         |_____________|_____________| 
    D   brown |   brown     | brown       |
              ----------------------------|
     
    As you see, both parents with brown eyes are only 25% likely to have a
    blue-eyed child, but it is possible.  Your brown eyed child either has
    2 brown genes (thus can only ever have brown eyed children), or a brown
    and a blue, thus may be able to have blue-eyed children if they mate
    with either a blue-eyed or brown w/ blue recessive person.  Your blue
    eyed child ONLY carries the blue gene, and thus if they have a blue
    eyed spouse can only ever have blue eyed children.  In my case, the
    older boys' dad has blue eyes, and I must have a recessive blue gene,
    thus we had a 50% chance of blue-eyed kids.
    
    			MOM
    
    		Blue gene     Brown gene
              -----------------------------
    D   blue  |   blue      | brown       |
    A         |_____________|_____________| <---- offspring eye color
    D   blue  |   blue      | brown       |
              ----------------------------|
    
    
    The baby and his dad fit the first diagram.  I have brown eyes and his
    dad has brown eyes, and he has blue eyes.  
    
    So .... by "dominant" gene, all it means is that when it is paired with
    an unlike gene, that gene "wins" and will stand out.  Of blue and
    brown, brown is dominant.  It's possible to carry blue without BEING
    blue, but you can't CARRY brown and not BE brown.
    
    So, to answer your question, both you and your husband have 1 blue and
    1 brown gene for eye color.  If you trace it back with your
    family/parents, you may be able to follow it further back.  It's harder
    to follow brown-eyes, as you're never sure if it's brown-brown or
    brown-blue.
    
    Hope this helps ....  And anyone can feel free to correct me if I've
    missed anything here .... it's been a LONG time!
    
    Patty

    Well, we just returned from the pedi opthamologist, who determined that 
    Nick's (4.5 yrs old) occasional cross-eye is a result of being farsighted 
    (to the tune of 1.5x 'normal', whatever the heck that equates to...)
    In any event, he has prescribed glasses and recommended that we get him
    fitted within a week, before the dilation wears off. 
    
    Since it's been less than a week since we first noticed his eye crossing, 
    and have lucked out in getting prompt appointments with the pedi & the pedi
    opthamologist, we haven't had a chance to prepare or research (other than 
    to read this note string, of course...). We'd like to get this done by
    Sunday at the latest; therefore, I could use some quick input for the 
    following:
    
    - can someone recommend a good optometrist or eyeglass shop in the area 
    north of Boston, preferably someplace that does a good job with kids? 
    
    - when fitting your kid(s) with glasses, did you choose a chain, or a 
    private practice, and why? 
    
    - what should I expect to pay for a durable, quality pair of glasses
    for Nick? 
    
    - any recommendations for the appropriate type of glasses we should
    focus on (pardon the pun...) for a very active, very physical, very big 4 
    yr old? Metal vs. plastic frame? 
    
    - how often will they outgrow the frame?
    
    - how do you prevent a 4-yr-old from losing the glasses? Cords? Croakies?
    FYI, we gave him a new pair of sunglasses yesterday since we've been
    dilating him since Monday...he managed to lose them that afternoon! I
    don't mind the loss of a $5 pair of glasses, but eyeglasses are a
    different story.
      
    Thanks in advance for any input or practical advice you can share.
    
    Freddie

    As a child I had glasses from second grade, which is older
    than your child, but perhaps my memory of glasses problems
    will help.
    
    Plastic frames break easily, while metal can be bent back
    into shape--but _don't_ get the kind of metal frame where 
    the nose pads are on little arms, as those arms are weak 
    and are easily mis-aligned, which hurts the nose.  Some
    metal frames have temples which curl around the ear--I
    wear a set like that now, and think it would help a lot
    to keep the glasses on the kid.
    
    For more money, however, you can now get "sport" plastic
    frames with a spring-loaded hinge at the nose, and special
    hinges at the joint of the face part and the temple, which
    allow that joint to overextend and recover.  This lets the
    frame survive the most common kind of destruction (a blow
    to one of the "corners", which ordinarily warps the frame
    or destroys the hinge).
    
    Plastic lenses are lighter and can be thinner for the same
    prescription, but if you can use glass lenses and still
    avoid the "coke-bottle bottom" effect, I'd recommend doing
    so, as they resist scratching better.
    
    It's expensive, but if his eyes aren't likely to change
    much you might want to consider getting a spare, as 
    accidents and losses happen, and happen all the more in
    the first few weeks when the glasses haven't yet become
    a habit.  You'll also have to work on instilling the habit
    of cleaning the lenses!
    
    			-John Bishop

   I'll second the recommendation for spring-loaded hinges (and maybe
   metal frames too).  I've had them for several years now, and had
   'regular' hinges before that.  The hinge is often a weak point in the
   glasses.  While you can take a regular hinge and bend it back if you
   happen to overextend it, I think you'll find that it won't work more
   than once or twice before it breaks off from the stress.
   
   - Tom
   

    A few months back Chris got glasses - he was 8 then, so we're beyond
    the "not losing them" stage.
    
    I went to LensCrafters and have been absolutely DELIGHTED with them! 
    He wanted them, and as soon as we picked the frames, he didn't want to
    wait long.  They have a selection of Kids frames that seemed much more
    durable than what I saw in other shops.  He got gold-rimmed frames,
    with the spring-loaded temples.  His do have the silicone(?) pads on
    the nose, and they haven't been much of a problem, but have bent a few
    times.  They bend back easily.  
    
    They DON'T recommend glass for children because glass lenses tend to
    shatter and the concern of getting glass in the child's eye.  They have
    a special "ploycarbonate" lense, that is (they say) the toughest
    plastic lense available.  Their lenses are scratch-resistant, and can
    be tinted (I think tinting is included in the cost).  And now, for the
    life of my I can't remember if I paid $75.00 or $140.00 for his
    glasses.  I think it was $140.00, and his dad paid me half.
    
    They were ready "in an hour".  
    
    They have a breakage policy - if the lense or frames need to be
    replaced, you pay a $25.00 co-pay.  If both need to be replaced, it's a 
    $35.00 co-pay.  Of course the 2nd week he had them, he was running with
    them in gym, fell, the glasses fell off, skidded across the floor and
    were stepped on.  The frame was straightened just fine, and the lenses
    were replaced.  In about an hour (-:  Adjustments and cleanings are free, 
    forever.
    
    It took about 3x to get the frames to fit nice so they didn't hurt. 
    THIS is one area that could use some improvement.  They have some
    people that do FANTASTIC at fitting, and others who you wonder if
    they've ever worn glasses at all.  Hunt out a good one, and you'll be
    amazed.  Initially Chris wouldn't wear his glasses for more than a few
    hours because they hurt.  Now he goes to bed with them on because
    they're so comfy he forgets to take them off!
    
    They also said that if they couldn't get the glasses so they were
    comfortable, they'd let us pick another frame, and try again (swap it).
    
    He takes a lot of pride in his glasses.  I let him pick out the case,
    and he loves that as much as anything.  He's near-sighted, but has been
    told NOT to wear them for running/sledding/rough sports etc.  His
    glasses are also to help correct a drift. (and the difference is SO
    amazing!)  I let him get their cleaning cloth and bottle of spray
    cleaner because it seemed to make him feel important.  I also helped
    him pick the frames, and noticed other frames that other kids wore that
    looked nice.  He felt *SO* special when we realized that his
    grandfather's frames were very similar.
    
    They also have "twist-o-flex" frames that let you literally twist the
    temple of the glasses, right around your finger, and it bends right
    back.  Not sure if they have them for kids, and they are more
    expensive.
    
    And fwiw, I got these glasses at full price - no specials/coupons, so
    you could probably do better.
    
    GOOD LUCK!
    Patty

    
    
    My 3 year old has been wearing glasses since December.  She is still
    wearing the one and only pair we bought.  She was fitted at a pedi
    opthamologist, who had an extensive selection of children's frames.
    
    Shannon's are Fisher Price and very cute!  We opted for the most
    expensive polycarbonate lenses which have held up quite well.  If we
    are lucky, we hope to have them for a year.  
    
    The frames are plastic and have been molded twice as they do strech.
    
    good luck,
    
    Beth

    
    RE: .130
    
    	Thank you so much on the biology class on eye color. My husband and
    I both have brown eyes (he has chocolate brown, I have light brown).
    Our first born daughter has brown eyes so dark as to look almost black
    at times. Our 2nd daughter (3 months old now) still has blue eyes, and
    they are a definite blue. The doctor said it looks like they'll stay
    that way. I was confused as to how, but now I understand. I just tell
    people that Lara figured she couldn't compete with her sister's huge
    brown eyes so she has her own huge blue eyes. 
    
    Patty

Hi,

	I've just taken my 12 month son (8 1/2 months corrected) to a
	pediatric opthamologist and am a bit discouraged with the results
	of his exam.  He says that Michael is "extremely far-sighted" and 
	destined to be cross-eyed in the near future.  I'm fairly naive about
	eye problems since I've been fortunate to have very good eye sight, so
	I was hoping someone could explain a few things to me.  I wish I had
	had the presence of mind to ask the doctor some questions, but I was
	totally astonished to learn of Michael's eye difficulty.

	He told me that Michael is a 4.5 when he would expect him to be a 2.5.
	Is this number something to do with his focal point?  He also said 
	that a lot of doctors would put him in glasses today, but there is a 
	chance that his far-sightedness will go away within the next year.  This
	surprised me, has this ever happened to anyone?  The doctor wants to
	see him in 6 months unless we notice him becoming cross-eyed before
	then.  

	Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks,
Nancy

    I can't answer most of your questions, but it is entirely possible that
    his vision could change completely.  Good to bad, bad to good, good in
    one, bad in the other etc etc. 
    
    Chris has been "far-sighted" since he was ~2.5.  When he was 8, they
    found he's now near-sighted, and prescribed glasses.  They wouldn't
    prescribe glasses for far-sighted (they said) because it messes up the
    "up-close" vision, and most kids won't wear them.
    
    He has problems with the muscles of his eyes, in which either eye can
    drift, usually outward.  The glasses help focus his eyes, and "force"
    the muscles to pull to a more central area, thus minimizing the drift.
    
    He has Strabismus and Amblyopia.  I forget which is which now, but I
    THINK that strabismus is a drift (lazy eye) and amblyopia is unequal
    vision in the eyes(ie 1 is 20/30, the other 20/50).
    
    A child's vision is under constant development until they're about 10
    years old, and can change in any number of ways (and frequently does)
    until then.  In his case, his right eye was stronger than the left, so
    his left would drift more.  Since the brain can not process 2
    distinctly different images at the same time, it has a tendency to
    ignore the weaker eye (his left).  If left untreated this can lead to
    blindness in the weak eye.  So, for him he had to wear a patch on his
    right (good) eye, so that his weak eye was forced to develop "normal"
    vision.  When he was ~3.5 he had a surgery to try to correct the
    muscles, and align both eyes as much as possible.  The hope is that
    after that, the brain would "take over" and force the remainder of
    muscle correction that's necessary to use both eyes, simultaneously. 
    In Chris' case, the surgery was unsuccessful.
    
    So, what we're left with now, is he's 9, he has 20/30 vision in both
    eyes (it's EQUAL, and that's what they like to see!).  Without glasses,
    his eyes (either one - he no longer has a weak/strong) drift about 60
    degrees, when looking at a distance, and about 20 degrees up close. 
    With glasses, his eyes drift about 20 degrees at a distance, and not at
    all up close.  He has *NO* depth perception whatsoever, never has, and
    never will.  He seems to compensate in other ways.  He has perfected
    the sometimes eerie ability to see and process 2 distinctly different
    images at the same time, when his eyes drift.  Thus he can be looking
    straight ahead, and to his right, at the same second, and tell you just
    exactly what's going on in both places.  Creepy ... (-;
    
    There's a LOT of information, and a lot of things they can do.  Seek a
    2nd opinion - our 2nd was very different from the first, and what is
    what saved his vision, I believe.  
    
    Good luck!!
    

    >He has problems with the muscles of his eyes, in which either eye can
>    drift, usually outward.  The glasses help focus his eyes, and "force"
>    the muscles to pull to a more central area, thus minimizing the drift.
>    
>    He has Strabismus and Amblyopia.  I forget which is which now, but I
>    THINK that strabismus is a drift (lazy eye) and amblyopia is unequal
>    vision in the eyes(ie 1 is 20/30, the other 20/50).
    
    Strabismus is a crossed eye.
    
    Amblyopia is the image supression in the crossed eye and eventual
    equivalent blindness in that eye.
    
    The brain can and will process the images from both eyes ... but
    usually the less clear image becomes supressed.  Long term image
    supression results in a permanent supression and hence effective
    blindness in that eye.
    
    I have alternating cross ... and as a result the image supression
    aternates ... I can select which eye that I use to see with.  The
    other image is mostly supressed ... although the supression is
    actually somewhat selective.  Images that supplement my vision and
    do not conflict with the good eye are only partially supressed, so
    as a result, I still have some peripheral vision in the supressed
    eye.  Basically the brain rejects images that do dnot make sense
    with the image of the selected eye.
    
    By correcting the vision in both eyes to the same point, you allow
    the brain to match the images from both eyes, so one image is not
    rejected, allowing that eye to wander.
    
    Normally they start glasses vision correction these days around
    age 3-4 ...  but beware, you may have to change many times ... often
    3-4 times per year.
    
    Stuart

    I got glasses at 8 months old due to far-sightedness and crossed-eyes
    that were eventually fixed with 2 surgeries. I think if you have
    concerns about his eyes, you may want to get a second opinion.
    
    I also think that his eyes may change a lot over the next 6 months.
    When we took my twins in for their eye checkup at 12 months [9 months
    adjusted], we were told that Jessica would definitely be near-sighted,
    and Brad would most-likely be near-sighted. And he didn't want to see
    them again until they were 3 or something changed drastically. So we
    went back this year, and guess what. Jessica's eyes looked fine and
    maybe a little far-sighted, and Brad was definitely near-sighted, but
    probably wouldn't need glasses for a few years. We go back in 5 years
    unless something drastic happens, especially given family history.
    
    I'd say to watch him for a while. If you have concerns, either go back
    or get a second opinion.  And you can always call the opthamologist and
    ask him the questions you now wish you had. He can pull the records and
    give you the answers so you'll know what you're dealing with.
    
    Cathy

    It looks like most of this is already in here but I'll put my $.02
    worth in anyway.
    
    My daughter has acommodative strabismus that we discovered (very
    obviously) by one eye severely crossing inward when she was 2.5 years
    old.  It literally showed up overnight.  Pretty scary at first but I
    shouldn't have been surprised since I have amplyopia as a result of
    strabismus (although my eyes never crossed) that wasn't caught at an
    early age.
    
    Anyway - Alex has been wearing glasses for about 4 years now and has
    really adjusted well.  She also has had surgery but will continue to
    wear glasses probably most of her life.  Hers are bifocals that split
    the eye right in half.  It was pretty amazing watching her learn how to
    use them at such an early age.  At 2, she wore the kind with the ear
    wraps but now she's into the designer frames - her last were a pair of
    Ralph Lauren Polo's but worth every bit of the money since it makes
    her feel good about herself in glasses - very important for a 6 almost
    7 year old.  We've gone through about 4 pairs of glasses now - some
    because she broke the frames - some because she just needed new
    prescription lenses and wanted new frames.
    
    She already wants contacts but that's out of the question both because
    they wouldn't do her much good with her condition and also because
    she's too young.  Her younger (4 yr old) sister "wishes she wore
    glasses too", and I think Alex would gladly give them up but maybe it
    makes her feel somewhat "special" to know Jocelyn is a little jealous
    of her glasses.
    
    What we've learned through all this is that 1) children adjust much
    better to lifes little nuances than us parents do (we really went
    through a rough time when we found out our little 2 year old was going
    to have to go through "all this" - sure seems silly now) 2) it really
    helped to be open with her on exactly what was going on.  Some people
    (when she was younger) would ask "what was wrong with her" when they
    saw the glasses.  We made a point of explaining in front of her that
    there wasn't anything "wrong" - and just explained the situation.  Her
    friends now ask her why she wears glasses and she matter-of-factly
    explains that her eyes cross.  They say "no they don't" and she loves
    to quickly take off her glasses and that one eye turns all the way to
    the inside of her nose.  They think it's pretty cool. 3)  Do whatever's
    necessary to make them feel "special".  At 4, she had to have minnie
    mouse glasses.  I wasn't too keen on this since this is definitely a
    marketing ploy that Disney is making big bucks off of, but I caved in
    and she LOVED those glasses - and so did all of her friends.  Now I don't 
    hesitate to buy her exactly what she wants (now this may change as her 
    taste get out of my price range, but we'll see how long it lasts).
    
    Sorry to ramble, but we've found out that glasses are definitely no big
    deal (easy for me to say since I've never worn them).  We also feel
    pretty darn lucky that this is the biggest ordeal we've ever had to
    deal with with either of our 2 little girls (so far).
    
    Cindy
    

    
The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.   If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Is it possible for two blue-eyed parents to produce a brown-eyed child?

    
    I would think it is.  My husband has brown eyes, mine are green, and
    our daughter has blue eyes.  In addition, we both has brown, curly hair
    and hers is straight blond!  If she didn't look so much like my
    husband's side of the family in her facial features, I'd be in BIG
    trouble.  ;-)
    
    However, blue eyes run in the family.  Lauren's great grandmother
    has them (Steves side) and my father has them.  So, both of us carry
    the gene for it which probably explains Lauren's blue eyes.
    
    Karen
    
    P.S... I also believe the brown is the dominant gene ...
    
     

    Angeline is one of 14 in her generation.  All but two of
    those kids have blue eyes, the two have green.  None of
    my brothers or sisters have blue eyes though.  One brother-in-law
    has blue eyes.  
    
    Where don't know where all those blues are coming from, but
    they are beautiful!
    					cj *->

    
    Hmmm...my understanding was that the blue eye gene was recessive;
    in order to have blue eyes, you carry two blue genes.  If both
    parents have blue eyes, then _I thought_ the children would
    have blue eyes.   Brown-eyed parents can have blue-eyed children
    if both happen to carry one brown (dominant) and one blue (recessive)
    gene.  I recall some sort of gene table from high-school biology
    that used B for Brown, b for blue showing the possible offspring
    of different parent combinations.  Something like
    
                  B      b   <- Brown-eyed parent with blue recessive
    
    	     B    BB    Bb
    
    	     b    Bb    bb  <- 25% probability of blue-eyed offspring
    
    	    ^
    	    |_____Brown-eyed parent with blue recessive
    
    There's probably a reader who's more familiar with this!
    
    cj/

    re.142
    
    I do not believe that two blue-eyed people can produce a brown-eyed
    child. [you must not, of course, view this as an expert opinion as I am
    a financial analyst, not a geneticist]
    
    Still blue eyes is a recessive and brown is a dominant. From my college
    biology, a true blue recessive cannot mask a brown dominant.
    
    But then, eye colour shows a lot of cases of incomplete dominance. My
    mother's parents both had hazel eyes of the greyish blue/light brown
    sort [some people might have called their eyes blue] and all three of
    their children had black/brown eyes.
    
      Annie

    
    
    .145 is right.
    
    It is not possible to have a brown eye child from 2 blue eye 
    parents, since neither of the parents have the dominant
    brown eye gene. The other way around, having a blue eye child 
    from 2 brown eye parents, is possible if both brown eye parents
    carry recessive a blue eye gene. 
    
    
    Eva

    
    
    
    >But then, eye colour shows a lot of cases of incomplete dominance.
    
    In that case, we can trace back one or two generations using the
    table to determine the inheritance.
    
    
    Eva

    
    
    A few replies back there was a description of how the recessive blue
    and dominant brown behave.  This is according to classical Mendelian
    genetics.
    
    Remember that Mendelian genetics has a nice simple explanation for
    inheritance in simple cases, but that some cases are not that simple.
    It is possible to have blue eyes because of a mutation in the brown
    gene and have a mutation that corrects the problem.  It would be rare,
    but possible.  
    
    If you are trying to decide if this child is really a child of the
    presumed father, I wouldn't decide based on eye color alone.
    
    A rare possibility might also be that one of the parents contributed a
    repaired "brown" gene via meiosis -- in meiosis, the chromosomes often
    cross over.  So say you have chromosome A from Dad and A from Mom; the
    resulting egg or sperm of a meiosis would have a chromosome A with some
    information from Dad and some from Mom.  In order for the brown gene to
    get repaired via this process, Mom and Dad would have to have different
    things wrong with their brown genes, and there would have to be a cross
    in the middle of the brown gene, taking the correct part of each.  This
    would be a very rare possibility, but doesn't seem impossible.
    
    If this is really important to you, find a genetics counselor or
    someone who does research in human genetics.
    
    Beryl

Don't forget that the dominant/recessive behavior describes the
interaction of a single gene pair, and there is more than one
gene pair involved in eye color.  I don't know exactly how many
there are.  The "two blue eyed parents will have only blue eyed
children" statement works in a statistical sample but cannot
be depended on in any individual case.  In several thousand
blue eyed couples, many but not all children will have blue
eyes.

	Paul

My parents both had blue eyes, my brother has blue eyes - mine are green.

FWIW


Chele

    I believe that green is dominant over blue - blue being the "most" (as
    in always) recessive color.  
    
    The way I was taught, it's virtually impossible to have brown eyed
    children from blue eyed parents, but the gene-mutation thing makes
    sense.  Of course if you had a bunch of kids with brown eyes, and two
    blue eyed parents, I'd REALLY be wondering! (-:
    
    

Actually, nonyellow is dominant over yellow (which means you can have blue
eyes and carry a "green gene" [not really green, but yellow, which combines 
with the blue to make green]).  See my note 78.120 for the details. 

As for eye colors in babies, this can vary also.  Most babies are born with
blue eyes, but not all, and the color often changes as they become older
babies.

      Carol

    
    re: most babies are born with blue eyes...
    
    Well, thats what I thought.  Then one day, a coworker (black) brought
    his 6 week baby in and she had deep brown eyes.  Like an idiot, I
    commented, "oh, her eyes have changed already".... No, I was informed
    that black babies are not born with blue eyes.
    
    Oh well, how was I supposed to know!
    
    Karen

    My son was born with deep brown (most people can't see his pupils, they
    are so dark!) eyes, and they are still deep brown.  My husband has
    equally dark brown eyes, and mine are green-hazel.  I love those dark
    brown eyes.  His skin is so pale, and the contrast makes him look very 
    intense!
    Sarah