Conference moira::parenting

    Has anyone experienced early/premature menopause?
    
    My question comes up because I have not had one single period since
    going back on birth control pills after my daughter was weaned (some
    weaning period, she was 3 weeks old and couldn't wait to drink
    formula).  I mean, I haven't had ANYTHING.  The money I'm saving
    on Kotex I'm spending on at-home pregnancy tests :-).  I'm only
    36, and early menopause runs in my family in a big way:  my mother,
    two of my aunts (her sisters), two of my sisters, a cousin.  When
    I tried to tell my OB/GYN about this, he said that "Your mother
    could have had a period when she was 60 if I'd given her enough
    hormones."  Not exactly what I was looking for in the concern
    department, if you get my drift.
    
    It sounds like my doctor thinks I should be throwing my hat in the
    air because I'm not being "inconvenienced" every month by a menstrual
    period.  What do I do now?  I agree, it's rather nice not having
    a period, but the worry over whehter or not I'm pregnant is not nice
    at all.  
    
    I don't think it's right to not have a menstrual period every 28
    to 42 days.  What should I do?  Am I right to be concerned, or am
    I making a mountain out of a molehill?

    Re: .1  I don't have any experience or suggestions for your concerns,
    but I am very glad that you started this note.  I had a baby last
    August also and since then I have had the opposite problem that might
    help if others were aware of.  My periods have always been very regular
    and for the most part very light.  I had my first post partum period 
    5 weeks after my baby was born.  We were at the Cape on vacation at the
    time.  This period was so heavy I litterally thought I was bleeding to 
    death!  After the 3rd. day I called my doctor's office and the nurse
    said that it was normal to have a heavy period after birth.  This
    continued for 2 more days, I finally went to the hospital on the Cape
    and had an exam in the emergency room.  Everything turned out fine, but
    the period lasted for 7 days.  This may be normal for some women but it
    was not for me. Each period since then has been almost as heavy, so
    much for all those years of having it easy!   The main point I want to
    make is for women to be aware this may happen.  When it happened to me
    I started reading about part of the placenta be left behind which could
    cause heavy bleeding and could be fatal. It was the worse 7 days of my
    life, not to mention just getting adjusted to a 5 week old.
    
    P.S.  My daughter is now 8 1/2 months and is so wonderful.  Looking
    back now, I wish I had the hindsite to have enjoyed the first few
    months more and not have worried so much.

    I think one of the issues here is the fact that your doctor 
    is not paying much attention to your concerns -- I would consider
    checking this out with another physician for your own piece of mind!
    
    I know some women who did not menstruate several months after the 
    birth of their child -- I seemed to be reasonably on schedule last
    time -- first period 6 weeks after delivery. 
    
    Being on the pill may also be effecting you -- when I used to be
    on it, I noticed that each month the flow became less until I
    started skipping -- this is when I would put myself off the pill
    and rest my system. Perhaps you may want to consider giving your 
    system a chance to regain its equilibruim without those extra
    hormones for a while to see if you really are starting menopause....
                       
    Monica

    After having my daughter, I didn't have a period for 8 months.
    Another time, I stopped having it and was worried.  The doctor said
    it was more than likely a hormone imbalance and he could give me
    hormone pills to bring it back or I could wait it out.  I opted to wait
    and it came back on it's own about 3 months later.  I'd bet yours will
    return.  If it were me, I'd enjoy it while it lasts.  Are you concerned
    because you're having other signs of menapause or just that your
    menstrual cycle hasn't returned?
    
    Marie

    Well, both, actually.  I'm not having hot flashes or anything --yet.
    But as .1 said, premature menopause runs in the family.  I don't
    want to get pregnant again (at least not yet), and I really don't
    trust the drugstore methods of birth control.  I don't ovulate
    regularly enough to abstain during "those days," and I'm not sure
    that the diaphragm is an option.  I went through this after my
    son was born; didn't have a period for as long as I was on the pill. 
    I was concerned about it then, but got the same treatment when I
    tried to bring it up with my doctor.  Now that I'm almost the
    same age that my mother was when she went into menopause, I'm doubly
    concerned.  I hear what you're saying, but I don't enjoy this at
    all, because I never know if I'm going to start anywhere, any time,
    and besides, something is telling me that this is not right.  I
    can't explain it any better than that.

If your doctor isn't addressing your concerns, consult someone else.

I know it's possible to begin menopause at 36 (as you're already aware)  -- I 
have a friend who is diagnosed as being menopausal at 36.  This diagnosis came 
about when she was trying to work through infertility.  

I don't really know what type of a specialist to recommend.  It seems
like an ob/gyn, particularly one interested in infertility, should be able
to diagnose it.  And it seems perfectly reasonable to me that you would want to
know *why* your body is doing what it's doing.  Given the attitude of
your current ob/gyn, I'm not sure you want to ask him for a recommendation!
If you need doctors in either Boston or Nashua, I could give you a couple of
names.  

    Do you know why you are back to the pills even before you
    got your first period after birth?  I have been on pills
    for years.  With both my childbirths, my doctor didn't
    put me back to the pills until I got my first period. Both
    times, it took me 6 months to get my period back.  I have
    two different doctors with 2 pergnancies.  I thought this
    is a standard procedure.
    
    Wendy

    I have the same question as .7.  I had my first baby last November.
    I breastfed for 16 weeks.  During this time I did not get my period.
    When I went to my Dr. for my 6 week check-up.  We discussed birth
    control.  Since I was on the pill before becoming pregnant, I wanted
    to continue on it.  The Dr. gave me a prescription for them, same
    dosage as prior to my pregnancy, but told me not to start them until
    after I had my first period.  It came two weeks later and, like a 
    previous noter, I too went to the hospital because I had never bled
    so heavily before.  I wish someone had warned me about this part!
    
    I started the pills as the doctor directed and things are going fine.
    I'm as back to normal as I can be.
    
    If you are concerned, I would suggest seeing another Dr. and getting
    a second opinion, especially where you don't seem comfortable with
    his/her response.
    
    Karen
    

    
    While I was breastfeeding I was on the mini-pill. I breastfed Anna
    until she was 4 months old and as soon as I stopped I got a period.
    At that point I switched from the mini-pill to my prepregnancy strength
    pill. The mini-pill doesn't have any (something) in it which will cause
    the milk supply to dry up. Remember if you do wait until your first
    period to start before starting the pill, you have already ovulated
    so you better be using some other form of birth control or you could
    get pregnant.
    
    Patty

    
    Re: .9
    
    Not only do you ovulate before your first period, but you are also very
    fertile after giving birth.  It took me 4 years to conceive my first
    child, and no time at all to conceive the second child.
    
    I was breastfeeding my first child, so my docter told me I couldn't go
    on the pill (2 1/2 years ago...have things changed since then?).  My
    life is a storybook Murphys Law, so we were careful about using birth
    control for seven months.  Well...my period never came...it seems that
    I ovulated and somehow conceived child #2.  It was a very rough time
    for me, being pregnant with a 7 month old, but it has worked out great. 
    At 1 and 2 1/2 they are the best of friends.  I am looking a little
    ragged nowadays...but the good days are worth it!!
    
    Carol

    I have been going through a similar situation. When my daughter was bor
    2 yrs ago, I got my period back 6 weeks after. I didn't nurse. Since
    then I have been missing periods like every two months. Between last
    november and the present I missed 3 periods! So I told my dr. about it
    and he said that I am probably just going trough a cycle change. I have
    been on the pill for years also, and I have never missed a cycle. So I
    couldn't understand why this would be happening. But everything is fine
    now and I have noticed that since this started and he told me what it
    was, that my periods have started 1 day later than they used to before 
    my cycle changed. So I believe he made a correct diagnosis.
    
    Sandy

My mother and I just had a long talk about menopause.  She recently read an
article that pointed out that we tend to explain menstruation and sex to our
children, but don't follow thru and explain the other changes that occur
as we age.  So, she decided to tell me about menopause.

From what she told me, menopause isn't abrupt like the start of mensus.
It can take several years.  Irregular menstruation and "hot flashes" are two
of the symptoms.  Other symptoms are increasing difficulty with PMS, loss of
muscle tone, and dry skin.  You can go thru menopause without any symptoms, and
you can have enough difficulty to warrant hormone therapy.  Apparently, like
most other physical changes, it can depend on who you are and how you deal with
discomfort.

Her description of hot flashes reminds me greatly of the hot and cold flashes I
had during hard labor, only not so many and so fast.  (My poor husband - rolling 
the car windows up and down and turning the heat on and off every 30 seconds.)

The average age for menopause is about 55.

One other rarely spoken piece of information - it is not uncommon for 
post-menopausal women to have problems with urine retention.  (I.E., leaking
when you cough or sneeze, or even when you don't).  Daily Kegel exercises 
now can prevent this problem later.

The other point Mom made very strongly is that doctors, especially older ones,
don't take menopause seriously.  In her circle of friends, there was a great
deal of difficulty getting fundamental information, let alone help and support.

Her advice to me was to find a young doctor, because there is a great deal of
interest in menopause in the US now, due to the aging of our population and the
relative lack of knowledge in the area.

    I am surprised about the average age; I was under the impression
    that this was much younger. Perhaps we should define what we are
    talking about. The beginning, the middle, or the definite time where
    the body stops menustruation for good.
    I think it starts from what I heard, at around 40-45. My mom, who
    is going to be 60 this year, has been going through menopause for 20
    years!
    Yes, info was/is difficult to get from older doctors -- same reason
    it was difficult to be informed about childbirth and the related
    topics. The medical mentality was SO different, and mathe 
    predominantly male physicians were not interested in having informed
    patients. My mother is still in awe of how much my husband and I
    know about childbirth just from listening to doctors, pre-natal 
    instructors and reading. 
    I'll bet that as time goes by there is more and more info out there
    about menopause too. 
    
    Mom and I have been sharing hot-flashes lately ... it's pretty funny.
    
    Monica

    Just to clear up something in either .6 or .7 -- I did have a period
    after my daughter was weaned, so it was OK to go back on the pill.
    Once I started the pills, I quit having the periods.  I don't even
    bloat, although I will occasionally feel crabby during "that week."
    (My husband and son will tell you that it doesn't always need to
    be "that week" :-))
    
    I noticed that my skin was exceptionally dry this winter, and I
    thought it was just because of the weather.  Hmmmmmm.....

    
    okay, I have a variation on this theme,
    
    	Has anyone had lots and lots of cramping after their first period?
    
    	Because I was nursing I didn't get my first period until 6 months
    (and boy was it heavy and painful just like the previous noters) but
    since then I have had almost continuous cramping (like the first two
    days of your period except all of the time). Not pleasant to say the
    least. Is this just my body getting back into the preverbial swing of
    things? I had heard that once you had a baby, your periods became more
    regular and less crampy, I'm waiting for this to happen. (looks like it
    might be long wait).
    
    	Anyone else?
    
    				Wendy

    
    
<    	Has anyone had lots and lots of cramping after their first period?
    


	Wendy,

     My first *two* periods post-nursing are always doozies.  Remember to
     buy stock in Kimberly-Clark and the folks who make ADVIL around this
     time next year......


     Hope you feel better,

     Rochelle

    If you are concerned about actually beginning menapause ask your doctor
    for a blood test.  I know.  I just had a baby 1.5 years ago and at least 6
    months ago I began menapause.  I am 43.   My doctor's first reaction was I
    was too young but requested that I come into the office for a blood test.
    It provide positive.  
    
    I'm now on estrogen and another hormone to bring back my periods each
    month.  I actually wish I didn't have to cope with the periods but I
    now know my body is getting the hormone levels it requires.
    
    Who would have thought I would have my children and start menapause so
    soon after.
    
    Judy
    

    
    My first 2-3 periods after having Michael were very painful also. Made
    me feel like I was back in high school when my Dad could count on at
    least once a month picking me up from school because of serious period
    cramps. Seems it took the pills a few months to kick in to ease my
    cramping once again.
    
    Chris
    

It's nice to be forewarned, but is it a given that the first couple of
post-partum periods will be crampy?  My cramps have always been extremely mild
-- am I going to discover what a *real* period is??

    I've also always had mild periods and two pregnancies and deliveries
    has not changed that at all. 
    
    -Tracy
    

    I always had infrequent (every 3-4 mo) and light periods but the first
    one after my deliveries (2 mos after weaning #1 and 3mos after weaning
    #2) was heavy and painful. I have returned to "normal" after that.
    
    Angie

    It's been five years since my last birth (where does the time go) and I
    had crampy periods before my first birth and no pain at all between
    births.  Then about 2 years after my last I started with the cramps
    again and thought I was going to have them forever.  Then in the last
    year or two I notice that I cramp during ovulation not menstruation. 
    Go figure!  At least I can tell when my fertile time is!
    
    

    I can't remember having had abnormal cramps after the delivery;
    I DID have slight cramps during ovulation since that time (which
    made it very easy get the timing right for this one....)
    Who knows what I will experience this time, since the last time
    I did not have the joy of breastfeeding that may have delayed the 
    arrival of the period. 
    We'll see...
    
    Monica (38 weeks and drumming my fingers)

    I have heard/read that as women get older, periods get heavier
    anyway, because the uterine lining builds up more thickly (for
    some reason).  Is this really true or is this a myth?    
    

    I found out what cramps are *after* L&D!
    
    I'd always had relatively easy periods; no real pain, just lower-back
    ache (sometimes), crying bout (sometimes), and (sometimes) what I call
    the flagpole syndrome, which is what it would feel like if you were
    carrying a flag in a parade with the end of the flagpole pushing on
    your abdomen just inside the hipbone... some sort of ovarian
    assertiveness.  My stepsister used to get cramps that were so bad she
    had to take to her bed and vomit; I never understood the connection
    between pain and nausea, back then.
    
    Barfed big-time during labor (age: 34).
    
    Don't remember when the periods started up (I nursed for a long time,
    and since my periods were always such a piece of cake, I wasn't
    dreading them), but when they did, the cramps felt exactly like a 
    contraction starting up!  Oh no oh no oh no OHNOOHNO oh.. huh?!  Fooled
    me every time (every cramp "wave"), for at least 6 months.  I'll never
    forget what labor felt like!
    
    The flow is way different too; before, it was fairly consistent over
    the 5-7 days.  Now it's Dump, *DUMP*, trickle trickle trickle.....  I
    now support 4 different varieties of "sanitary products" to accomodate
    this capriciousness, instead the one product I used before Alexandra.
    
    All of it is worth it :-D  (and I'm still getting off easy in the
    menstruation department; now they can be called cramps, but I don't
    need to withdraw to my chambers or Speak to Ralph.)
    
    Leslie 

I found that as I aged, my periods were increasingly difficult.  (More PMS, much
heavier flow, more bloating, very sore breasts, worsening cramps - I was
starting to look forward to menopause).

But, after having a baby, it's much, much easier.  The flow is still
very heavy, but the other symptoms are much lighter than they ever were.

I checked with the mid-wife during my yearly exam who says that it's quite 
common for symptoms to ease up - one of the side benefits of carrying a baby 
for nine-plus months.


Pat

    
    	What about frequency of having periods after a baby? Does it come
    back as regularly as it was before? One of my sisters who had a baby 11
    months ago is only getting her period every *other* month (expensive in
    terms of home pregnancy tests ;-)) Prior to that she was regular to the
    hour (well almost anyway). She is still nursing and I know that must
    have something to do with it.
    
    				Wendy

I think that all bets are off while you're nursing.  There are no guarantees;
but Lynne didn't ovulate for over two years while she was nursing Elspeth (and
then returned to a perfectly regular cycle).

	-Neil

  Cindy just got her period again (5 weeks after losing the baby at 20 weeks).
She said that the cramps seem like nothing compared to the pain when she was
in labor.  It seems like a normal period, but I don't know if future ones will
be the same.
	Linda

    I don't know if anyone else has had this problem but since the birth of 
    my second child I have had UNBELIEVABLE menstrual cramps? Last night I
    felt as if I was having pre-labor pains! My ob-gyn gave me a
    prescription for Anaprox - they barely made a dent in the pain.  I even
    took a double dose.  Anyone else have this problem?  
    
    Anne

    Yes, but I don't have much advice, just sympathy.  I gave up on
    any medication because it just wasn't doing any good.  There were
    a few times when I had to use my breathing exercises, it got that
    bad.  
    
    Sometimes heat would help -- a hot tub, or a heating pad.  I used
    to wrap my midsection in an electric blanket and turn it up to
    "high".  Sometimes a glass of wine or a small brandy helped. 
    Oddly, twice as much brandy didn't help twice as much, and if I
    had too much to drink it was worse. 
    
    Things I tried that didn't work: 
    	several different exercises
    	tinkering with my diet (avoiding caffeine, avoiding sugar,
    		etc.). 
    	sleeping in different positions
    	sleeping in the chair
    	herbal teas 
    	acupuncture
    
    I didn't try a chiropractor, but other people have said that
    helped them. 
    
    They did gradually get better, and went away completely after
    about 3 years, about when my postpartum depression lifted, so I
    presume it was hormonal.  
    
    --bonnie

    
    Several things changed after my second child, but I found it was normal
    after talking to other friends.  I had very severe menstrual cramping,
    VERY heavy bleeding (for at least 3 days), and I started getting bad
    aching down the back of my legs during menstruation.  It has been 1 1/2
    years since the birth of my second child, and it seems to be getting
    worse instead of better.  I just chalk it up to old age!!

    I wonder if it's just age causing a change in hormones. My
    sister-in-law recently started using Anaprox and her youngest is 9. I
    have used Anaprox before children. My problem is I have had what
    appears to be 2 periods a week apart starting when my daughter was 2.5
    months of age. This surprised me because with my first it took 11
    months before I started to menstruate again and I'm nursing her
    completely as with my first. Of course the nurse at my doctor's office
    said that was normal (... just not normal for me..)
    
    Jan

    My sister-in-law Janet had excruciating pain in her abdomin this month
    - to the point of vomiting and fainting.  She *finally* went to her Gyn
    and he wrote her a prescription and was about to send  her home.  She
    ended up passing out in his office and was rushed to the hospital. 
    After a laparoscopy it was discovered that she had diveticulitis (sp?)
    - an infection in the intestine/bowel and it had ruptured.  She then 
    endured surgery and has a colostomy for 6 weeks...  she assumed that 
    her pain was due to her menstrual cycle (3rd child is 18 months old).  
    
    I'd suggest that if your pain continues you get a second opinion.  If
    she had in fact gone home with a prescription she would have been in a
    lot of trouble. 
    
     ^_^
    (>.<)
     ) ( Jeanne

    I was, what you would call, rather 'busty' before I became pregnant.
    I have breast fed Jake for 8 months now (down to night time only) and my
    boobs are disappearing!!  Once I finish I will have to get a whole new
    set of underware - all my bras are miles too big.
    
    I went right up to a 38DD and during the 8 months have come down to
    around a 34B (maybe 32).  Before I was always a 34C or D.

    re: back a ways - painful periods and anaprox
    
    You may get better results if you start the anaprox 1 week before your
    period is due.  My doctor told me that it has a side effect of
    partially suppressing the 'male' hormone that causes a lot of PMS 
    symptoms.  When I started taking it early, I ended up being a lot
    less "agreessive" and also had easier/less painful periods.
    
    Celinda

    Two things here ....
    
    For the painful periods, a while back they gave me anaprox to help ease
    the pain, and every month I would take it, and then the next month I
    would need it more, and the month after, even more etc etc.  The more I
    took, the worse the following month's cramps became.  Now, I don't know
    if there's any medical/scientific reason for this, because I just
    decided to endure a month of hell (and it was), and stop taking them. 
    After that the following month wasn't so bad, and I decided to rough it
    out with aspirin from then on it.  Anyway, perhaps there's something
    different that might work better for you.
    
    
    #2.  I'm curious to see if anyone else knows of anyone else who's
    experienced this, or has experienced it themselves.  I'm 29 years old
    and have had 2 children, 3 pregnancies.  I was on the pill for a few
    months in high school, but never since then.  Back in January I decided
    to go on again (at the moment the name escapes me Nor-something??).
    I didn't notice this at first, but looking back, it's pretty obvious. 
    Pretty much as soon as I started, my whole "self" went right out the
    window and in stepped Dr. Jeckyl.  I had terrible headaches the first
    month, and my period the whole month the second month.  For the first
    3-4 months I always spotted.  That's not the "remarkable" part
    (actually, what's most remarkable is that my boyfriend didn't dump me!
    (-;).  What happened, I cannot fully describe because I don't remember
    it all too well, but pretty much, I became the **MOST** totally
    unbearable psycho-Bitch from Hell.  I was uncontrollably, unexplainably
    (even to myself), and quite violently angry, *ALL* the time.  ALL THE
    TIME.  I'd wake up in the middle of the night TOTALLY pissed off.  I
    could go from a smile (which became fewer and farther between), right
    to a raging anger inside of a nano-second.  I wanted to kill the world,
    and I wanted to die a violent death.  It was REALLY crazy. 
    Occassionally I'd have lapses of Logic, and we'd talk about it, and I
    could NEVER explain what I'd done or WHY I'd done it.  I was paranoid,
    and CONVINCED that the only reason my boyfriend was with me was for
    selfish reasons.  All the world was a very dark and ugly place.  I
    didn't care about ANYTHING at all, and everything was SUCH a bother.
    
    This all went on for some months.  Certainly enough time to adjust to
    the pill, and the whole time, things only kept getting worse.  I am
    normally a pretty happy/giggly person, and I have NEVER had much
    trouble with PMS except for an OCCASSIONAL teary day (I think I made up
    for all those years, in a few months!).  The beginning of July I got my
    period, and decided there's NO WAY that I was going to keep taking the
    pill because that was the ONLY thing that I could think of that had
    changed since I'd been "crazy".  Immediately I felt some sort of
    relief, but it's taken until the middle of last week before I feel like
    my "old self" again (about 6 wks from when I stopped the pill). 
    Suddenly Life is Wonderful again and I am happy/giggly all the time. 
    And I look back at the past 8 months or so, and all I can say is WOW!
    (And Thank God for my boyfriend!).  
    
    Does anyone have any more information on this??  My Dr. has since left
    the practice, so I can't talk to her about it, and I feel a little
    weird about bringing it up anyway.  We've decided to just use "other
    methods" of birth control for now, but I'm VERY curious about this
    whole thing, and more than a bit frightened by the rage that it brought
    out in me.  There is absolutely NO DOUBT AT ALL in my mind that I had
    the ability to kill someone without so much as a second thought, if I'd
    had to.  I'm not talking about little feelings of anger here and there,
    I'm talking about a feeling of total rage, ALL the time.  Overpowering
    anger, that the ONLY thing you can comprehend is the anger and trying
    to release it somehow.  A VERY physical feeling of pent up rage.
    
    Don't worry ..... it's all subsided now, so there's not some
    looney-tune running around Spitbrook!  The other interesting thing (to
    me) is that within a few months of when I started the pill in high
    school, my boyfriend then, broke up with me, said I had changed - I
    look back now and wonder if I was doing the Psycho-Bitch From Hell
    routine.
    
    Has anyone else gone through this??  Is this a particular side affect
    from a particular pill?  Is this just something in my chemistry that
    can't DEAL with my hormones like that all the time??  Any clues??
    
    Thanks for any info you may have!
    
    Patty ... who's Glad to be smiling again, and seeing the Sun as
    beautiful, instead of just that incredibly annoying light that blinds
    me in the morning.  (-:  Phew!

	This may be from way out in left field, but I have read articles 
   and seen talk shows about allergic reactions to various things causing
   severe bahavioural changes in the person having the reaction.  It's 
   actually very interesting to read about.  I saw one talk show that had
   an allergist that specializes in this sort of thing and she had some
   patients on the show that she treated.  One of the children
   on the show would actually chase her mother around the house with a 
   butcher knife.  Another child would throw fits where they would just
   start screaming and go into a fit of rage for no apparent reason.  All
   of the reactions where traced to something they were allergic to.  Like
   milk or hairspray or something else like that.  The Specialist even
   said that they found that some men who came home drunk and beat
   there wives were determined to have had an allergic reaction to something
   in the beer like hops.  These were men who normally would never dream of 
   hitting their wife and couldn't explain what came over them.  Some men 
   weren't necessarily drunk they had just had a few beers.

	Anyway, what I'm getting at is that maybe you were having a severe
   allergic reaction to the pill, but didn't recognize it as such because
   it didn't show itself in the way you would normally think of an allergic
   reaction.

	Just food for thought.  The Good thing here is that you know what
   caused the problem and you can prevent it from ever happening again by
   staying away from the pill.

	Lisa

    sounds simalar to my experience with the pill.  Who says that letting
    chemicals change your hormone balance is a good thing.
    
    Meg

    I agree that it seems to be more of a hormonal thing than
    an allergic reaction.  
    
    I recently went OFF the pill and am experiencing many of the
    feelings that Patty referred to in her note.
    
    Is there anyone else out there that went OFF the pill and felt
    this way?  How long did it take for your body to get back to 
    normal?  And is there anything that can be done to make the
    symptoms less severe while your body is readjusting to the hormonal
    inbalance?
    
    Patty, thank you for sharing your experience with us.  Your
    note was very timely...
    
    Linda

    Linda,
    
    A friend of mine had a similar experience going OFF the pill and the
    Drs had to give her "opposite" hormones to get her body back to normal.
    That may be worth checking into ....
    
    Patty

    Hormones are very powerful chemicals! I took large doses of Lupron for 
    four months, which suppresses estrogen/progestrone. I experienced some
    similar strong reactions. After my treatment was done, life seemed so
    much better. I think some people are much more sensitive to hormone
    changes than others. I know some women who have used pergonal for
    fertility treatments and experienced similar reactions, and finally
    had to stop the treatments. 
    
    Glad you figured it out!!! Too bad your doctor left, since a doctor
    should monitor this for you. When you find a new ob/gyn be sure to
    bring this up. 
    
    Cyn

I'm another person who felt more rage going off the pill. 

I'd been on the pill for over 5 years, and stopped about 3 months ago.  I've
noticed that PMS hits MUCH HARDER!  I really know the "Jekyl and Hyde"
syndrome.  I can keep it in check with B6, which I can't live without! 

The other joy of being off the pill is that the cramps are back!  Always
a pleasure. 8*}

Jennifer

    Hi yall,
    
    	My experiences with the pill are totaly different.  I have worse
    pms sysptoms on the pill than off.  I gained 10 lbs and just now have
    been able to get it off.  I am irratable constantly.  I don't have
    cramps, and that is the only good thing about it.  When I have gone off
    the pill in the past I have found my periods to be easier to handle.  I
    am a pretty easy going person and deal with the public every day.  Some
    times it is a real struggle to be nice to everyone.
    
    vlm

    
    I was "the mad woman from hell" when I came off the pill 18 months ago. 
    I had been on it for several years, so my body was used to certain
    hormone levels. I was weepy, angry and totally unsure of what to do with 
    my life. Once I became pregnant, I calmed down and returned to my old self.
    In fact my change in mood was a big clue that I as pregnant before I
    could take a test. I can pin-point the day I conceived as my mood
    changed overnight. Yes I know it takes days/weeks for the hormones to
    kick in, but that is how I felt.
    
    I am now on a mini-pill and have some really moody days. I also get
    headaches from time to time. I am putting this down to working full time, 
    coping with a teething 4� month old, watching our group being torn-up by 
    the cuts and doing major work on the house at the same time. Oh and I am 
    still nursing Rebecca full-time :-)
    
    I'll see what my periods are like when they return and if they are bad
    and I am still moody, I'll ask to go back to my old pill once I have
    finished nursing.
    
                    Celia
                                    

    I took the pill for a year, and became very depressed. When I
    quit taking the pill I went back to normal. I was never completely
    sure if this was due to the pill, since there were emotional things
    going on to (relationship with a man). But I think the pill was at
    least partly responsible.
    
    I also take anaprox for cramps, and it does seem like I have to
    take more than I did in the beginning. However I don't want to stop 
    using it !
    Carol

	I was wondering about other women's experiences with stretch
	marks.  In "What to expect...", it says that 90% of all
	pregnant women will experience them to some extent.  

	I'm in week 26 right now and I've noticed very light stretch 
	marks starting.  Is there anything I can do to stop them from
	getting worse or to reduce them?  Will they fade after delivery?

	What experience have other mothers had?

	Thanks!
	Linda
	    

    
    I rubbed cocoa butter into my skin on my tummy from about the 4th
    month. I did this in the morning after my shower and at night before I
    went to bed. I got a special stick of it from "The Body Shop" from their
    range for mums and babies, but anything with cocoa butter should work. 
    If your breast skin is also feeling taut, use the cocoa butter on this
    area as well.
    
    I went on using it until about a month after delivery as my tummy went 
    down (took a while as I had a planned c-section). I am pleased to say I 
    never got any stretch marks although the fact the baby was small and 
    transverse breech may have helped as I did not get much of a tummy!!
    
    While we are talking about rubbing goodies into your skin, wheatgerm
    oil massaged into the perineum can help this area stretch without
    tearing at delivery - not much use for my delivery :-) My midwife told
    all her mums to do this from the 6th month onwards.
    
    Good luck
    
                  seals
    

    
    
    	Eh, I got 'em.  And I cocoa-buttered day and night.  BUT, I had a
    big baby, and felt (WAS!) enormous.  I'd still reccomend to cocoa
    butter, since it felt great!  I used the Mamatoto stick (frmo the body
    shop) as well as the stuff they sell at drug stores in teh baby
    section.  It's actually called Stretch Mark Cream. Blah.
    
    	The stretch marks are not too bad now - I hardly notice them - and my 
    baby's only (already!) six months old.  Wish those last few pounds would 
    go away as easily!  :-)        
    
    	Justine 
                        

Talking about cocoa butter ...

Does anybody have any advice / comments / statistics etc. about the advice my
wife and I were given about how to (hopefully) avoid an episiotomy (spelling ?)
during labour by the massaging of natural oils into certain areas, while
stretching those areas, during the last couple of weeks of pregnancy ?

Regards

Steven and Jane

    
    see my comment in .48 about wheatgerm oil. It works according to many
    midwives in the UK.
    
               Celia
    

    
    Well,  I didn't rub anything on my tummy and I have no stretch marks
    there.  I did however get a couple on my breasts while I was feeding.
    These have faded so much that I can't find them now.  It has been
    14 months since Iain was born.  Stretch marks tend to fade from the 
    purpley red to silver as they age.  The only catch is that if you are 
    dark skinned, this will not hide them.
    
    LaDonna

Don't scratch.  As the belly gets bigger, it itches.  Don't scratch it, as that
will stress the skin more.  If you absolutely can't stand it, rub with the
flat of your hand, but very gently....


Pat

    re .50:
    
    My midwife doesn't use oils, but she uses hot, wet washclothes to get
    things to relax and stretch.  Also good perineal massage and support
    when the baby is crowning, as well as not pushing too hard helps
    prevent tears.
    
    Meg

    Many years ago, my doctor informed me that I have a retroverted uterus
    (tipped towards the back versus leaning front).  My mother also has the
    same condition.  When I became pregnant, I asked my doctor if it would
    cause any problems, but he said it shouldn't.
    
    I did notice that in my first trimester I didn't have to urinate as
    frequently as most women do in the first three months.  However, now
    that the baby is getting bigger (I'm 5 1/2 months) and my uterus has
    lifted up (and fallen down), I now have to urinate frequently.  
    
    I have also noticed that most of the time, it feels as though the
    majority of the baby's (and uterus) weight is down low, on my bladder
    and pelvic bone.  
    
    Does anyone else out there in note land have a tipped uterus, and did
    you experience anything out of the ordinary with your pregnancy? 
    I have no other pregnancy to compare this with, so your stories would
    be interesting to me.  I have also heard from a few women with this
    condition that they never felt their baby drop as most women do.
    
    Thanks in advance for your responses!
    
    Lynn  :)
    

I have a very tipped one. In fact, it is one of the reasons it takes longer for me to become 
pregnant.  The one negative side effect I experienced twice while pregnant was my uterus blocked 
my bladder. This happened after having an ultrasound. For some reason my bladder expanded to 
much from holding the fluid to long. Both times I was only seven to eight weeks along and the 
uterus was still tipped back so it blocked my bladder from relieving.  I ended going to the 
emerency room and having a cather for a week.  Not a pleasant experience.  

So, I am extremely careful now after those two incidents.  I just had an ultrasound done last 
week and refused to drink all the water they tell you to drink.  I explained beforehand why and 
my doctor stuck by me on it when the technican questioned it.  I am far enough along, 18 weeks 
by now so that it shouldn't matter. From what I remember from my doctor the uterus comes forward 
the further along you are in your pregnancy.

Best of Luck

- Pat K.

    
    I do not have a tipped uterus.
    
    During the first three months of both pregnancies I did not have to
    urinate often.
    
    Starting in the second trimester, I had to urinate often.
    
    I had with the first and have with this one lots of pressure on my
    bladder and in my pelvic area.
    
    With the first, I never felt him drop.
    
    Sounds like you are experiencing a pretty "normal" pregnancy. ;-)
    
    			Wendy

    
Sounds pretty normal to me also.

I have a "tipped" uterus.  My OB mentions it each time I have a normal
checkup.  I've had 3 normal deliveries with no complications.

Assuming that "drop" means head down engaged.....

#1 Didn't "drop" until I pushed

#2 "Dropped" about 5-6 days before the birth

#3 "Dropped" and dialated 2cm at 31 weeks    


*The bladder pressure got more intense with each pregnancy - I'm not
 sure if its the age factor (37) or the number of pregnancies -- a friend
 who is the mother of 6 said it got worse with each baby.  The last 2 weeks
 I had to use the bathroom at least once per hour while awake.  

    <Entered anonymously for "Evelyn" by moderator>
    
    I'm a few days late for my period, and think I may be pregnant.  I've 
    been having some fairly constant pain in my stomach, but not really 
    like my normal menstrual cramps, so now I'm not only wondering if I 
    am pregnant, I'm wondering if it could be tubal.  I already took a 
    home pregnancy test, but it came back negative. I'm not so sure that 
    I believe it, though, especially since this has been a really strange 
    cycle. I have been having quite a lot of hot flashes during this 
    whole cycle, and think I ovulated late, so even if I'm not pregnant, 
    I think there may be something wrong.  Anyone have any insight on 
    this type of situation?  I am planning on calling my doctor, but I 
    probably won't do that til Monday in case my period actually does 
    arrive.
    
    I know I'm jumping to conclusions, but I have, as a recent OB/GYN 
    told me, 'a rather bizarre gynecological history.'  I have been 
    pregnant twice before with the second one ending in a miscarriage. 
    They thought that was a tubal pregnancy, but it was just an empty 
    sac, so they did a d&c after an incomplete miscarriage.
    
    Anyone got any advice?

If it were me, I would probably call the doctor/midwife
for an opinion today. At least, talk to the nurse.
That way if by some chance it is tubal again, they
know what your symptoms were and won't be surprised
by a weekend phone call if necessary.

But, I'd also buy another home pregnancy test and
try that again on Monday if my period didn't come.


Pat

Please call your doctor's office before the weekend starts.  

The sooner a tubal pregnancy is diagnosed, the better for you.  I'm certainly
not qualified to diagnose one, but your mention of pain that doesn't feel
like your normal menstrual cramps has me concerned.  My understanding of home
pregnancy tests is that they are not useful for diagnosing tubal pregnancies
-- they're designed to register positive for levels of the pregnancy hormone
above a certain level and tubal pregnancies produce low levels of the hormone.

If this were me, I'd feel far better discussing this with my ob/gyn's office
instead of worrying all weekend about whether I should have called on Friday.

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes
to remain anonymous.

        Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

***************************************************

Hello.  At 25 weeks pregnant I was diagnosed with having kidney stones.
I spent 5 days in the hospital trying to flush the stones through.

The doctors consulted and determined that I should have stints (sp?)
surgically inserted between the kidney and the bladder which would prevent
the stones from passing.  (A stint is similar to a solid plastic
straw.)  I had this procedure done during my stay in the hospital.  The
stints will need to remain in my body until I give birth in September.

I was informed that pre-term labor could occur due to 1) passing the stones,
2) having the surgery and 3) possible bladder and kidney infections.  

I am 30 weeks along now and the GOOD news is that my kidney backaches have 
lessened.  The BAD news is that the pain from the stints is intolerable.  I 
am in constant agony with sharp stabs of pain, pressure and mild cramping.
Simply stated, I can barely shuffle along the pavement or even stand up.

According to the specialist, these symptoms will not change until the
stints are removed.  I am allowed to take Tylenol with Codine, but am 
concerned with risks to the baby if I continue to take the medicine for
the next 10 weeks.  Sitting in a soft chair is the most relaxing position,
which doesn't last very long due to added bladder pressure.

I would appreciate hearing from a few women who have gone through a
similar problem.  My questions are ... Did you have a normal delivery with
the stints still in place or did you elect to remove the stints prior to
your due date?  What did you do to lessen the pain?  Have there been any
complications with the baby or your own body with the stints remaining
in place?  Have the stints ever slipped?  How painful were the stints
for you?  How did the doctor deal with removing your stones after the 
baby was born?  How soon after birth were the stints removed?


Thanks for your time.

       "Pg with Kidney Stints"

    This is for a friend..
    
    	His wife was  pregnant and after 8 weeks doctor asked for
    	an ultrasound and again after 2 weeks ultrasound.
    
    	Then he said there is no fetal pole and an D&C is required.
    	After D&C is done, he says there was an abnormal growth of
    	Placentra tissue and cannot say whether there was an embryo or
    	not (must have been early demise of embryo). D& C was done at
    	12 th week. One more problem is blood count is to be reduced 
    	to zero in a month otherwise one more d&C is required.
    
    	Vesicular mole was there. We don't know the medical explannation
    	for that. 
    
    	How many woman have this problem ? Is this critical? and
    	What is to be done?
    
    	Thanks for the any explanation..
    
    	Regards.
    

    My girlfriend had the same thing happen to her about two years ago.
    I remember that they did a D&C and some kind of therapy and she had
    to wait a year before she could get pregnant again.  She has since
    had a healthy baby girl.
    
    Vickie

    I know there are many common health problems that seem to have
    a high incidence of manifestation during pregnancy (headaches, high
    blood pressure, diabetis, etc) 
    However, it seems to vary whether women are prone to things like
    coughs, colds, flus, bronchitis, pneumonia, etc.
    
    It seems I have come down with a nagging chest cold. This has probably
    frightened me out of proportion. This is because a few years ago (pre-
    baby times) I had a very stressful december and was go-go-go the entire
    month. I had a small cold that seemed to disappear and reappear during
    that time, and since I paid little or no attention to it, it blossomed
    into a severe case of pneumonia. (Everyone around me admits I SHOULD
    have been in a hospital - lost 10 pounds in 10 days, didn't sleep for
    2 weeks, couldn't pull enough breath in to yawn for about 2 months 
    thereafter).
    Since that time it seems I am prone to chest colds and bronchitis
    (which I also had as a child) and it scares me everytime. I also
    associate chestcolds during pregnancy to my pregnancy with Daniel,
    and while his death 6 weeks later is unassociated with my being
    sick and taking antibiotics, it strikes fear into me when I am
    sick like this during pregnancy.
    
    I am probably going to visit the doctor today if she can squeeze me in,
    but the emotional anxiety is great.
    
    I think I'd like to hear from women who've been ill during pregnancy
    (and tell me about those nice healthy babies you've had after!)
    
    It seems my fear never goes away.....
    
    Monica

I got sick several times while pregnant with
Sarah.  No serious fevers, but gastro-intestinal
problems which put me to bed for a couple
days each time.  (Ran a light fever, for which I
forceably kept Tylenol in my stomach thru will-
power.  Amazing what you can do when you think
you must).

So, don't worry.  Most definitely see your
doctor, if only for the piece of mind.  When
I was sick, the midwife called every day to
make sure I was ok.  My stomach finally
settled down only hours before she was going
to admit me to the hospital to make sure I
didn't get dehydrated.  (I didn't feel that
bad, but she was being careful).

It will be ok, Monica.  Continue being
careful and cautious, which will help the
anxiety.  Pregnant women get sick all the
time and have perfect babies.  You will too.

Pat

    Monica,
    
    	I always get sick when I am pregnant. Both times I had bronchitis
    (requiring antibiotics) and with the last, I even ended up in the
    hospital emergency room for breathing treatments.
    
    	The midwives explained to me that the woman's defense system is
    concentrated on protecting the baby, which in the overall scheme of
    things ensures survival (it's a very Darwinian thing to do), this,
    however, leaves the mother vulnerable. Add to that stress, lack of
    exercise, maybe not the best nutrition, shake and viola, illness.
    
    	Take care of yourself, go home and fix yourself a lovely cup of
    tea.                                                       
    
    				Wendy

    Monica,
    
    I was in bed with the flu for over 7 days last year at this
    time....Basically, I got the same info as previously mentioned: The
    baby is not the sick one, mommy is.  I was told to drink fluids 
    (specifically Gatorade) to insure hydration and get plenty of rest.
    Shannon went to daycare, I stayed in bed!!!  
    
    Although Courtney was born early, she was *very* healthy and big
    for her gestation!  Be good to yourself and try not to worry.
    
    Beth

    
    	Monica,
    
    	I had bronchitis through Christmas when pregnant with Emily
    	(which means my pregnancy was at the same point yours is now).
    
    	I took antibiotics and cough medicine, got some rest, recuperated,
    	and had a very healthy baby.
    
    	I had a stomach bug for a week this time.  I barely ate, and
    	lost weight.  By the fifth day, I started to think it was more
    	than a bug, and thoughts of pre-eclampsia (sp?) or other problems
    	set in.  (Emily had had the same bug and was over it in 24 hours, 
    	hubby got over it in 12 hours, and mine seemed to linger and
    	linger).  I was preparing to call the doctor when I started to
    	feel better.  I saw my doctor the next week, and after reviewing
    	my overall weight gain and measuring for growth, was satisfied that
    	everythign was ok.
    
    	I have found myself more susceptible to sickness than I was before
    	I'd had any children, even when not pregnant.  I'm not sure if
    	it's related to bearing children, or to diminished sleep and
    	greater exposure to germs (though Emily doesn't go to a daycare,
    	so I think that's limited).
    
    	Probably the best thing you can do to speed your recovery is
    	rest, rest, rest, then rest again.  I know, tough to do this
    	week, but perhaps it's a good week to try every take-out restaurant
    	in the area ???
    
    	Karen
    

    Monica,

    I can't say too much about URI's during pregnancy... but I did have:
    a Uterine infection, a vaginal infection and chronic bladder infections
    during my pregnancy with Sarah.  She was late in arriving, but other
    than that she was a very healthy baby.  I was on all kinds of
    antibiotics throughout my whole pregnancy... I'm glad you are seeing
    the Dr., if for no other reason than peace of mind!  Relax and take
    care of yourself... you and the baby are the most important thing at
    this point, so just kick back and let your body heal!  Take time off if
    you need to... 

    Thinking of you!

    M-L
    
    Ps  also, even though it sounds good, and tastes good... try not to
    drink tea.  It is a diuretic and you don't need to deplete yourself of
    liquid!

    Well, the doctor said no work this week (mon-wed - Thursday is our
    trip to Montreal for xmas to see our families so I had booked vacation
    that day anyway).
    I'm at home and Charlotte is at the care givers (this is our usual
    plan when I am ill). She, by the way, has a mild ear infection so 
    is already on antibiotics.
    I'm trying to keep from doing heavy duty housekeeping, so I am
    pacing myself and napping. The consequence is that although I just 
    feel more tired if/when I do something strenuous - I will pay for
    it in the evening with coughing fits that are so bad I end up
    ditching dinner. 
    The doctor said that if the fits are severe enough that the cough-
    surpressant I can take is codeine! She said while doctors cannot give
    the carte blanche for codeine for pregnant women, it outweighs the 
    risk of severe coughing. I've decided to stay away from that stuff
    at all costs (since its such a perfect medication for me when I am
    not pregnant and suffering a migraine - I don't want to get into
    the mind set that its okay to take it).
    She also prescribed an antibiotic in case I start coughing up stuff
    (the cough's been dry so far. but I HAVE started to cough up since
    last night). I think I wlll fill the perscription.
    
    Karen: we did indeed order in (hubby was reluctant since it is costly,
    but I insisted since neither of us had the energy to create something
    and it was getting late once we returned from the doctor and picked
    Charlotte up. No more extravance though - xmas has already stretched
    us.
    
    Thanks all again for the replies - I feel much better being at home
    and taking naps when I need to. It goes a long way. BTW my favourite 
    beverage du pregnancy is gingerale. (and juice).
    
    Monica

    
    Monica,
    
    	Actually when I get bronchitis (or a cold/flu that goes to my
    lungs) I almost always have to take a cough syrup that is a codeine
    wanna be (I'm allergic to condeine). I'm the type of person that coughs
    so much that I then start to gag and eventually throw up. I also cough
    so much that I get incredible headaches (we're talking major here) This
    cough syrup ensures that I don't get dehydrated (unfortunately it also
    sends me for a loop) and it is rather effective in stopping the cough
    (of course then we have to deal  with the fact that junk just sits
    there, for that I usually also have to go on antibiotics sigh). I do
    not use this when pregnant but did have to use it once while I was
    nursing Spencer.
    	
    	Sometimes, you just have to weigh who's needs are greater at the
    time.
    	
    				Wendy

    
    Herbal teas that dont have any caffine in them seem to make me
    feel better expecialy rasberry leaf tea.
    
    

    >>wanna be (I'm allergic to condeine). I'm the type of person that coughs
    >>so much that I then start to gag and eventually throw up. I also cough
    
    
    Been there, done that. 8-) 8-).
    
    The good news is I have the antibiotics (wonderful Alan went out 
    during the snowstorm yesterday and picked it up - we got 20cm!)
    The bad news is that my gag reflex is SO ACUTE this pregnancy that 
    I am having real trouble swallowing ANY pills, let alone those little
    zepplins masquarading as capsules in the bottle. *Sigh*.
    
    I have to tell you I'm darned glad I don't have to go in to work
    this week - I would have collapsed for sure!
    
    Monica
    (resting reading laundry and wrapping)
    

<    Herbal teas that dont have any caffine in them seem to make me
<    feel better expecialy rasberry leaf tea.
    
I'd check on the Raspberry tea before using it while pregnant.  I believe
that Shellie may have told me once that Raspberry leaves can cause problems
or are used in helping *expel* from the uterus or something.  Now, I may
remember this incorrectly, or Shellie may have remembered incorrectly (both
have happened before  :-} ) but I'd check with an herbalist (or maybe 
Meg Evans - Meg?) before drinking raspberry tea while pregnant.

     Carol 

   re: Carol
   
   Not sure about which tea it is, but yes, there is one type of herbal
   tea that has been shown to have that effect on the female body.  Best
   to check some definative source before getting too heavily involved
   with herbal teas...
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom
   

    re:.75
    My wife took a whole heap of Red Raspberry Leaf Tea during the last
    several weeks of pregnancy, and thinks it helped.  It softens the
    cervix and in some cases can induce labor, but in other cases just
    makes it easier.  Taking it too early is of course rather dangerous, as
    you don't want to induce labor before you're ready!  This is written up
    in some books and I suspect most midwives understand it, though I doubt
    most MDs would care to acknowledge it.

    Carol,
    
    I called a friend and got the list of ingredients for a pregnancy tea
    that I used and have recommended to friends for all-day sickness and
    general health:  
    
    Spearmint leaf, raspberry leaf, lemon grass, strawberry leaf, fennel
    seed, nettle leaf, roaships, alfalfa, and lemon verbena.
    
    Red Raspberry is generally recognized as safe in moderation for early
    pregnancy.  Any herb overdone isn't good for the body, just as any
    other food overeaten isn't.
    
    Meg

    I'd like to know if anyone has had back problems, back problems which
    surfaced during pregnancy and stayed with you afterwards. What did you 
    do about it? 
    
    My upper back started bothering me during my 1st pregnancy. I told my ob
    about it and of course he said it's a common problem during pregnancy
    caused by the all the weight in the front and it will go away. But it
    hasn't gone away and still bothers me today. My back feels tired/achey  
    between my shoulder blades and is worse at night (after sitting at a 
    keyboard all day and lifting my 25 pd son). Sometimes my neck hurts also. 
    
    I have mentioned it to my doctor and he suggested that I lift weights and 
    not lift my son so much (right!). He said that it's not a life long
    problem and it will go away. I'm beginning to wonder about this though.
    It's been a yr since Andrew was born and my back has not improved. 
    
    I'm wondering if anyone else has had these problems and if so what did
    you do? I've talked to people about chiropractors and massage
    therapists. They seem to help back problems. Has anyone tried this
    approach?
    
    Thanks for any info,
    Karen

    Karen,
    
    My chiropractor probably has saved my career, because I had the same
    problems, and after two years they didn't go away.  Part of it seems
    to be the fact that I didn't lose all the weight after Carrie was born
    and a lot of the weight was up front.  this plus a lot of repetitive
    motion seemed to do some serious damage to my upper back and hands. 
    
    If you haven't had it done yet, I would recommend a workplace
    evaluation to make sure your screen, keyboard, chair, etc. are at the
    right heights for you, as well as do any upper back strengthening
    excercises a physicall therapist perscribes, and see either a massage
    therapist or Chiropractor for the nerve impingement.  it really does
    make a difference.  
    
    Meg 

    	Back problems and pregnancy go hand in hand.

    	During my first pregnancy I had to have regular adjustments by a
    chiropractor. I did not need this with my second pregnancy. With both
    pregnancies, however, I got "Nursing mother's neck". I strained my neck
    by watching the infants nurse. A trip to the chiropractor and lots of
    massage helped that. (as did weaning the child ;-))

    	I still have back problems that were "discovered" during my
    pregnancies, put that on top of continued orthopedic problems and I am
    essentially a mess.

    	I figure that with lots of physical therapy (just finished up my
    last round), occasional trips to the chiropractor, body awareness, an
    occasional muscle relaxant, and anti-inflammatory, and some direct
    exercise, in a few years, I'll be over this. ;-)

    	Good luck, back pain is well, a pain in the neck.

    				Wendy

    
    	Hi - I've been looking thru this notesfile, and wondered how
    	     others have fared in the "tiredness" dept.  I'm in the 
    	     middle of my 6th month with my first child, and am
    	     EXAUSTED by 7:00...some days are better than others,
    	     and I don't mean to whine...also seems that I can't get
    	     comfortable at night to sleep well...lot's of tossing and
    	     turning...(my poor husband!)
    	     I'm not very big yet - just really started "showing" a couple
             weeks ago...
    	     Any advice?
    
    	     Thanks,
    			 Tina 

    Advice?  Yes, get used to it.  It gets worse.
    
    many 8^)...
    
    -sandy
    

    
    Hi Tina -
    
    As Sandy says, it gets worse!   Not much you can do about it, either.
    
    I'm at 7 1/2 months, and I'm exhausted!!!!  If I go to bed or fall
    asleep early, I'm awake at 3:00am, and spend the rest of the night
    tossing & turning.   Go to bed at my usual time, and toss & turn
    all night anyway........)8
    
    What I wouldn't give for 8 hours of "normal" sleep!
    
    Lynne

    	Yup, here's another vote for it doesn't get any better. Some women
    breeze through pregnancy and feel terrific, me? I sleep, wake up to
    eat, and then go back to sleep.

    	Listen to your body, if it tells you to sleep then sleep. Be
    thankful that you can.

    	With a 2+ and an 11 month old, I can truthfully say that I have not
    slept the night through in over 3 years. You sort of get used to that
    fuzzy veil that is always draped over your brain.

    	One of these days, I'm going to take a sick day to stay at home and
    sleep, sleep, sleep. Gosh I'd better end this note now in case I get so
    drowsy that I stray off the margins.
    					.
    					 .
    					  .
    					   .
    					    .
    					     zzz



			Wendy

I had read some where to prop pillows all around you when you go to bed and
I found this to be much more comfortable.  The more pillows the better.
My husband laughed - you need a king size bed but it worked for me.

    I agree with the pillows...I had 5.  Two for my head, one for my belly,
    one for my back, and one between my knees.  I still keep a bunch on the
    bed and usually sleep with 3 or 4.  Good thing we have a king size bed. 
    When I was pregnant with my first, we had to upgrade our bed size from
    double to queen just to accomodate the pillows.
    
    My husband recalls that the ('84-'85 season) Celtics put me to sleep. 
    Every time I got comfy on the couch to watch I would see the jump start
    and catch the wrap-up.  Couldn't stay awake whether it was Sunday
    afternoon or Friday night!
    
    Rest when you can - and if you fall asleep on the couch before dinner,
    consider it a great nap.  When you have to get up to go to the
    bathroom, head for the bedroom after.  That way I wouldn't feel bad
    about sleeping in the living room.
    
    Now when my second was born, I had a 2 year old to take care of.  I
    would close us both in the living room after breakfast in the morning
    with toys, munchies, and a blanket and pillow for me.  He'd watch
    Sesame street and Mr Rogers and I would catch a few zzzzzzz.
    
    
    -sandy
    
    

    
    ...Glad to hear I'm not alone!
    I tried a few pillows last night as suggested - MUCH BETTER! (Could'nt
    find my husband, though...)  :^)
    Same schedule as you mentioned...Go to bed, wake around 2:30,..hang
    around a bit,..then try to fall back to sleep.  Since this is my first,
    I find it SO helpful to hear that other people "did that too",..as in:
    - Tired   - Moody   - Hungry   -etc...  
    I'm used to working ALOT, in complete control of myself, and demanding
    alot out of myself - so this is all very strange!  
    ( I LOVE WHAT THE END RESULT WILL BE THOUGH! )
    
    ...c'mon June 20!
    
    Thanks,  Tina

    Something I did was when I waked up, I would get a drink of juice
    and/or snack on a cookie or cracker... It seemed I always slept better
    when my belly was full. 
    
    I also used the pillows, 2 for the head, 1 for the back, 1 for the
    front, and 1 inbetween the legs.... Now, I use them when I am feeding
    Nicholas in the early morning in bed... :-)
    
    As for getting use to no sleep.... I am slowly adjusting :-) Nicholas
    only gets up 1 time to be fed, and it seems its the same time I use to
    be up in the middle of the night while I was pregnant.  
    
    Anne Marie
    

    You know why you are being waked in the middle of the night, right? 
    You are getting prepared to be up all night with an infant.
    
    -sandy
    

    Actually, I sleep great if I am alone in the waterbed!  Maybe I
    should toss hubby out until after the baby is born! (;  Can't sleep
    on your tummy cuz your pregnant: can't sleep on your back because
    of the pressure it puts on your heart, lungs and spinal cord: can't
    sleep on your right side because you can compress the artery (?) going
    to your legs......but so what?  You can't sleep anyway...
    
    I can't wait to see if the infant feeding schedule coincides with
    the horse feeding schedule! (8
    
    Lynne

This note is being entered for a member of our community who wishes to remain
anonymous at this time.

       Carol duBois, PARENTING co-moderator

**************************************************************************

	I'm still pretty early in my pregnancy (only 2-3 coworkers know 
	I'm pregnant).  So, I'm going to ask the moderator to post this.

	This is my second pregnancy.  I know that all pregnancies are 
	different but...

	I'm ALWAYS tired.  If I'm not tired, I'm hungry (need to eat every 
	two hours, or I think I'm going to get sick).  I don't remember 
	having this much "morning sickness" in my first pregnancy.  Plus, 
	with no children, it was easier to get extra sleep the last time.

	I know some people who barely notice their first trimester.  But, 
	for those of you who have really been sick, how did you handle this 
	stage?  Did you find a way to nap in the office?  Did you take any 
	extra sick time, or cut your hours down in some way?  Or did you 
	just find a way to tough it out?

    I worked for a woman who would go to the nurses office (when we had
    nurses) every afternoon for a quick nap.
    
    I know another woman who was always deathly sick during her first three
    months of each pregnancy.  In fact, with her second, she was
    hospitalized because her morning sickness made her so sick they were
    concerned with dehydration.
    
    Stay in touch with your OB, and get as much rest as you can.  This too
    shall pass.
    
    -sandy
    

    I had both problems with my first pregnancy. I was known to drift off
    during phone conversations and had day sickness (lost 15 pounds the first
    trimester).  I started bringing my lunch so that I could use my lunch
    hour to catch some sleep - sometimes in my car, sometimes I just shut
    the door to my office and put my head on my desk and had someone wake
    me at a certain time.  Also I tried to get to bed earlier which is hard
    when you have a child at home.  With my second pregnancy, I would go to
    bed when my son went to bed (8:30) and tried not to think about all of
    the things that I "should" be doing.

    
    ...and some days are better than others!
    After a several weeks (months?) of tossing and turning - my husband has
    agreed  to sell our waterbed! ( :^))  I can't wait!  I've found that I
    REALLY NEED at least the 8 hours of sleep, or I just can't function...
    I know what you mean about trying not to think about all the things you
    SHOULD be doing instead of resting!
    
    ..it's so great to know I'm NOT ALONE!
    
    Tj

    
    Sell the waterbed?  If it wasn't for the waterbed, I would get
    no sleep at all!!

    
    Yes, sounds strange I guess...but I sleep better in my old bed (now
    set-up in my step-daughter's room) with several pillows than in the 
    waterbed!  Also, whenever I move around (which is ALOT) it wakes my
    husband...so I'm so busy trying NOT to make too much movement that I
    end up uncomfortable, and waking him up anyway!
    
    I guess whatever works!
    ...including my strange LOVE of bologna/tomato/lettuce/lite mayo
    sandwiches on whole wheat bread for lunch/supper!!!!
    
    Tj 

    
    
    For both pregnancies, when I wasn't sleeping I was thinking about when
    I would get the chance to lay down again!  For the first one, I was 
    commuting to Hudson MA (from Goffstown NH) and attending classes in 
    Nashua in the evening.  I would actually go home after work and nap,
    then get up and drive 20 miles south again to go to school.
    
    For the second, it was *worse*.  Shannon got used to seeing me in the
    prone position!  I would sleep from 7:00 - 6:00 everyday, and nap
    during the day on the weekends.  I was so happy when I got put on
    bedrest.  It only lasted eight hours, then I delivered Courtney ;*(
    
    With two kids now, I do manage to nap on occassion but I haven't felt
    well-rested in over a year :^(
    
    Beth

    When I was pregnant I occasionally napped at the nurse's office in the
    afternoon.  I heard about someone who used to take a nap under her
    desk!  I also found sitting at my desk with my head on the desk is good
    for a short rest.
    
    I really did nothing at home.  My husband did shopping, cooking,
    laundry.  I also wonder what it would be like to have a child at home
    and feel like that.
    
    Beryl

    
    
    Well, it wasn't planned or scheduled, but a lot of the times around
    2:00pm, I'd find myself dozing at my desk.  Allowing myself a couple
    mins to just relax seemed to help.  
    
    The 2nd pregnancy is definitely harder in the "rest" department!  
    

    re .99
    What a husband !

The following note is posted anonymously.  If you'd like to respond to the
noter by Email, please send it to me, and I will forward it.  If you would
prefer your Email to be anonymous, please so specify; otherwise, I will
forward the Email with the header information.

*************************
Hi,

We've finally decided to start a family. But there are two questions that
concern us:

-    I've been on the combined contraceptive pill for 8-9 years and have
     only last week come off it.  I've heard two conflicting stories about
     getting pregnant right after coming off the pill:

  -  It can take a long time to get pregnant because your body still has
     some of the pill in it, and

  -  You can get pregnant quickly because your body doesn't know if
     it'scoming or going.

-    I'm asthmatic (only slightly - diagnosed 18 months ago) and have only
     had one minor attack (six months ago) but I'm on preventative
     (Becotide) and corrective (Ventolin) medication.  Could being asthmatic
     cause me any problems during pregnancy and childbirth?

Thanks for your responses.

    I can only speak from experience, as everyone is different..
    
    1 1/2 years ago, after being off the pill for 2 weeks, I became
    pregnant.  I had many complications from the very beginning, and ended
    up miscarryiing in the 4th month.  They had attributed it to getting
    pregnant soo soon after coming off the pill. Something about the cycles
    not being right yet. 
    
    I had been advised to wait at least 3 months before trying when coming
    off the pill, which I did the 2nd time, and had a successful pregnancy.
    (it had complications, but I have a healthy baby boy.)
    
    When we decide to try again for #2, I will definately wait the 3months
    for my body to clean out...I don't want to go through that again.
    
    This is just my personal experience, as everyone is different. I
    suggest talking to your doctor and see what she/he says...
    
    best of luck...
    
    Anne Maire
    

If you're on any drugs, you should talk to your doctor.

    I too have asthma, and talked to my doctor about being pregnant and
    taking my asthma medication (vanceril).  He said that it wasn't a
    problem, that it would actually help the baby because I could breathe
    easier and it would help everything.  I haven't become pregnant yet,
    and will bring it up if and when I do get pregnant when I have to take
    my asthma medication (only from May - September) just to be on the safe
    side.
    
    Good luck!
    Barb

	HI,

	I was told to wait 3 months after stopping the pill so I would get
	a regular cycle back.  It's important to get a regular cycle back so
 	you know when you are pregnant.  I waited the 3months then got pregnant
	the 2nd month of trying. (5months after stopping the pill).  We had a 
        healthy baby girl who is 13months old now.

	Karen T.

My doctor told me to wait 4-6 months.  I waited 4 months and got pregant
7 months after going off the pill.  I had been on the pill for 9 years.

Karen

    I was told by my doctor that I should wait for two normal cycles to
    occur after going off the pill before becoming pregnant.  I went off
    the pill in November and got pregnant in January.  I did have one
    normal cycle between, but was nervous as I hadn't waited the
    recommended time.  My OB told me not to worry and that with today's
    low-dose pills, there are no proven problems with getting pregnant so
    soon after stopping the pill.  He told me the reason they ask you to
    wait is that you have a better chance of conceiving once you're back on
    a normal cycle and that also they can better estimate your due date. 
    
    Kris
    

This reply is being entered anonymously for the author of the earlier note .102.

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator

==============================================================================

    Thanks for all the responses so far.  I have been to see my doctor and
    discussed my concerns with him. He confirmed what one noter said in here
    about the asthma, that I shouldn't have any trouble being pregnant
    with asthma and that the medication I'm on won't harm the baby, in fact
    will probably help.

    Regarding when to get pregnant: he said it's up to me whether to wait
    three months and that the only reason they advise it is for the woman
    to get a regular cycle back. Having said that, he has known patients take
    a year or more to get a cycle back at all!

    Regarding waiting to get a cycle back to work out due dates: he said this
    isn't so important now as they can work out from scans when the due date is.
    
    So thanks for all your help and responses so far. I'll keep you updated as
    to how things go.

    Thanks.

    My OB/GYN also advised me to wait 2 or 3 months after going off the pill
    to get my body back. The pills regulate your cycle every month so it
    makes sense to allow some time for your body to get back into the swing
    of things. :-)
    
    I was on the pill 5 yrs, stopped taking it and waited 2 months, and got
    pregnant the next month. I was successful but a friend of mine thinks 
    she didn't get pregnant for a year because she had been on the pill. But 
    I wonder if the pill had anything to do with it. I bet if she hadn't been 
    on the pill it would of taken just as long to conceive. 
    
    Does anyone know if there's any evidence that proves it does take
    longer for some woman to get preganant after having been on the pill?  
    
    Karen   

    
    I was told the Pill makes you more fertile, especially if you are over
    30 when you first try and conceive. It's as though the body is making
    up for lost time :-)
    
    Certainly my experience and that of several friends - on the pill for
    several years, conceive after only 2-3 months. We were all over 30!!
    
               Celia
    

    
    I'm having a problem which I believe is pregnancy-related.  I
    exclusively breastfed my daughter until she was 6 months old
    and I was fine until then.  Soon after I started her on solid
    food and cut back on pumping the skin between my shoulder blades 
    started itching.  Then it progressed and more and more of my skin 
    got itchier and itchier.  I've been to a dermatologist and a family 
    practioner and the best they can do for me so far is put me on 
    antihistamines.  If I stop them my skin is so irritated that just 
    brushing against something turns it bright red and brings on unbearable 
    irritation.  And it still seems to be getting worse.  Has anyone
    else experienced this?
    
    .................beth
    

	Hi,

	I'm curious about what other noters have to say about this.
	This is my second pregnancy, with my first I didn't have this 
	itching.  I also nursed my daughter and didn't have any itching
	while I was nursing or after I stopped.

	Now that I'm pregnant with #2, I started itching at the beginning
	of the 2nd trimester and I'm almost at the 5 month mark, so I've
	been itchy for about a month.  My itching is limited to my arms
	between my shoulders and elbow (thank god it hasn't spread).

	The doctor said to just use a Cortizon over-the-counter cream on
	it. He looked at it and couldn't see anything.  I don't think it
	is from dry skin because it doesn't look or feel dry and moistering
	cream just seems to make me more itchy (I've tried a few different
	brands).  My itching is mostly at night when I'm trying to fall
	asleep but sometimes during the day and I have no idea what brings
	it on.  The cortizone cream seems to help a little, but sometimes
	I'm so itchy I feel like I'm going to go insane.

	I have my next doctor's apt. next week and I was just planning to
	ask them for something stronger and hope that this goes away SOON!

	Part of me thinks that it's just become a habit now and that I'm
	not really itchy but start scratching and then become itchy.  I hope
	not, but whatever it is - I wish it would stop.

	Oh BTW, I haven't changed laundry detergent or foods or anything else
	that I can think of except entered the 2nd trimester of pregnancy.
	And I don't have any allergies (that I know of).

	Thanks,
	Karen T.

I remember being SOOO itchy on my legs - to the point I 
would be scratching them constantly.

    beth,
    
    I don't know if you've already done this or not, but I developed a
    sensitivity to nylon after Carrie was born.  switching to cotton
    athletic bras was a godsend for me.  to thi day if I get something
    nylon on my skin it turns bright red and will begin to "weep" if I
    continue the contact.  
    
    meg

    Followup to .112:
    
    In case this happens to anyone else (although no doctor I talked
    to had heard of it) I am happy to say that 14 months after the
    itching started it is almost completely gone and I no longer
    have to take antihistamines.
    
    ............................beth

	My itching was only ever on my arms and got less bothersome 
	during the 3rd trimester (thank god).  So it was only really
	bad during the 2nd trimester.  Now that Stephanie's been born
	it's totally gone away !!!  - one of those weird pregnancy
	things I guess.

	Karen T.

    
    
    I've got the itchies too!
    
    I developed an almost rash on the inside of my arms running from my
    elbows down to my wrist.  It was really bad for a couple of weeks in my
    third and fourth month.  I am know 6 months+ and it's all gone.
    
    Weird!
    
    

	Hi,  I have a question about Braxton-Hicks contractions.  When I
	had my midwife appointment last Friday (24 weeks) my midwife asked
	alot of questions about tightening/hardening of my uterus and 
	about the baby's moving.  Then she explained that the tightening 
	I felt when I put my hands on my belly were most likely B-H 
	contractions.  I can't feel them unless I have my hand on my belly
	so this was news to me.  How can I time them if I can't feel 'em?

	My question is -- my midwife said to keep an eye on the hardening
	and to call if I get more than 5/hr.  Well, I am now having a
	problem telling if hard is hard or just firm and that's ok??  I
	wish my uterus had hardened in the doc office because both
	Monday and Tuesday I have felt this firmness quite a bit and my
	husband and I aren't sure if it's really B-H or not.  I called
	the nurses hotline to ask and was told hard is hard and I should
	drink at least 8oz of water/hr (I do already).  Can someone please
	explain to me what "hard" is?  If I push on my belly normally it
	gives like a water balloon, when it's firm it's like pushing on
	a soccer ball (a little give but mostly hard)  Is that hard by
	B-H definition?

	Sorry if I confused anyone. I'm pretty confused and a little worried
	as this is my first pregnancy.

	Thanks for any insights on this!
	Lisa...

    Why are you trying to count them anyway? I would think you'd only need
    to count if you where getting to many. Seeing as you hardly can tell
    your having them, sounds like they are not a problem. I remember the
    tightening feeling, but half the time I thought it was the baby
    rolling.  Unless you have a specific reason to count them, the midwife
    is making you worry about nothing (there is so much of that in
    pregnancy as it is).
    
    Gail

    
    I'm with Gail.   I don't understand the need to count and/or time
    them.   In addition, I'd always heard that B-H were "good" in that
    they were practice exercise for the real thing - but are not related
    to labor or premature labor.   Call me confused...
    
    The other thing you mentioned in your note is to drink 8oz of water
    a day - is that a typo?   I'd expect that to be more like *6 to 8* 
    8oz glasses of water a day....you really need the extra fluid
    especially when its warm outside.
    
    Carol  

     just fyi -  .119 said 8oz water per hour (not per day), which sounds
    about right.
    

    
    You're right - never mind....cj/

>>    Why are you trying to count them anyway? I would think you'd only need
>>    to count if you where getting to many. Seeing as you hardly can tell
>>    your having them, sounds like they are not a problem. I remember the
>>    tightening feeling, but half the time I thought it was the baby
>>    rolling.  Unless you have a specific reason to count them, the midwife
>>    is making you worry about nothing (there is so much of that in
>>    pregnancy as it is).
    
	Well, the reason I'm trying to count/keep track of them is because
	I am high risk for pre-term and my midwife thinks I *might* be 
	having too many of them (despite the fact that I can't feel them,
	which could be because I put it down to baby moving).  

	From an email response I got I think I now understand what the
	midwife was talking about.  I think what I am having is mild
	B-H and I think she wants me to check for strong B-H.  I was
	not able to get in touch with the nurse today so I have to wait
	until tomorrow to try again to ask them and be sure.

	Thanks!
	Lisa...

	Lisa,

	I had the mild BH contractions a lot in my last trimester.

	I also had stronger BH contractions, which made me feel the 
	need to not move until they were over.  After having just
	one of those, I could tell the difference between the two,
	and the mild ones went nearly unnoticed.

	I was a bit concerned that with such strong BH contractions,
	I wouldn't know when real labor started.

	Silly me!  Labor has a way of making itself known!

	Karen

    I *think* that I had contractions around the 30 week mark, but I was
    not "in tune" with what they feel like, how often, etc. My ob/gyn has a
    very busy practice, I was lucky to get 5 minutes with him let alone
    being educated as your midwife is doing for you.
    
    My water broke at 32 weeks and I had to give birth. To this day, we
    don't know why this happened (no infection, maternal illness, etc.)
    FYI - Brendan's doing great now.
    
    Because of my experience, I'm probably a bit more cautious than others.
    I would recommend that you do try understand what BH feels like, how
    frequent, etc. And please, don't ever think that you're being a
    paranoid first time mom. There are NO stupid questions. Ask, bug and
    bother your midwife/doctor until you understand and feel secure that
    you understand.
    
    LB

    Thanks!  Part of the reason I am nervous (less so after some of the
    responses I've gotten) is because I know that there is a chance that
    I could deliver pre-term.  The other is most people have replied 
    saying the got B-H mostly in the 3rd trimester and I've had them 
    since almost the start of my 2nd trimester (albeit mild ones from
    what I now understand).  I have a call in to the nurses hotline
    and they were too busy to answer my questions so they are calling 
    me back (I hope).  I do want to confirm with them (doc/midwife/nurse)
    that the mild B-H are ok (for me).  

    Thanks!
    Lisa...

    I started having Braxton Hicks contractions at around 4 months!  I
    would tell my mid-wife that it felt like the fetus was rolling itself
    up in a ball, she just smiled and told me what it was.  It started out
    a couple of times a day becoming more and more frequent the closer my
    due date came.  For the record, even though I had the B&H contractions
    so early, I was still 16 days late!
    
    sandy

I can relate...

I was considered at risk for pre-term labor since my sister had
delivered early for no known reason.  (And I was partially effaced
at 20 weeks).  I began having (what I now know were BH contractions) from about 
the 20-week mark.  My doctors gave me a book on preventing pre-term
delivery which had instructions on how to monitor the contractions.
Like Lisa, I wasn't sure if they were contractions or the baby moving.
(I had a pretty sedate baby :-)  One of the guidelines that I seem
to remember (this is from 3 years ago), was to check all areas of the
uterus.  I had some contractions that would make the area around my
navel quite firm, but if I checked lower on the abdomen, there was more
give.  I was partially effaced at 20 weeks

BTW, I delivered one hour before my due date.  I don't think that quite
qualifies as "early" :-) :-)

If you feel more confident when you can read everything you can get your
hands on, check all replies entered by BOURQUARD in this conference.
I believe I entered the name and author of the book I was given.  

Good luck!

- Deb B.

    
The following is being posted for a member of the PARENTING notesfile
community who prefers to remain anonymous at this time.   If you wish
to contact the author by mail, please send your message to me and I will
forward it to the anonymous noter.    Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

Carol Stolicny, PARENTING co-mod
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

What are other woman's  experience with post-baby intimacy?
My child is about seven months old now and my sex drive has not returned,
it's no where to be found really. I could not care less if we had "relations"
or not. I'm sleeping fine, the baby has slept though the night for several
months, so it's not just tiredness. We're certainly more busy, but this
is not about time it has to do with finding the inclination.

My husband is taking it personnaly that I never initiate things and
I'm usually looking for an excuse out when he does the initiating.
It seems that sex doesn't make the top 10 things on my "to do" list.
This is not the way it was pre-baby. Anyone experience this after their
baby? When does it go away? Is is a hormone thing? It's really
causing a problem!


thanks!

    
    I thought it was post-baby stuff too .... but then after I was SURE it
    had nothing to do with the baby, I had to start looking at other
    reasons.  And they sure were there.  This may or may not be the case
    for you, but here's some things that I found ...
    
    1. I had no time to/for myself.  No time to take care of myself in any
       way or nurture myself.  I was responsible for the baby and nurturing
       him, and I wasn't taking care of me (and neither was anyone else).   
       The LAST thing I felt like doing was giving even *MORE* of myself to
       someone that I thought should be helping build me up/be supportive.
    ** TAKE TIME FOR YOURSELF!  Do the things that you want to do here and
       there, and once you've filled "yourself" up, you'll be more able and
       willing to give to your husband.
    
    2. I was resentful.  I was doing WAY more than "half" the work, and our
       baby was very much a Mommy's boy.  So the times that his father DID
       try to help out, Jonathan only wanted me.  I felt like his dad
       should and could have been doing a lot more.  He wasn't, and so I 
       was (subconsciously) withholding myself from his Dad.  "You're not
       going to give me what I need, I'm not going to give you what you
       want".
      
    3. I was tired, and our timing was off.  I hate it in the morning, and
       can only think of ALL the things I have to get done.  He's the
       opposite.  So the occassional time, I'd try to initiate things, he'd
       be too tired in the evening - I'd be too wound up in the morning. 
       Which leaves something like noontime on the w/ends, which with a pile
       of kids around, amounts to virtually "never".  This is still a bit
       of a struggle, but we're working on it.  We try to go to bed earlier
       so he's not so tired in the evening, and I will get up and freshen
       up a bit in the early morning, so I can "relax" a little more.  
    
    They SAY (whoever "they" are), that for women, sex is more of a
    sacrificial feeling - that women are "doing" something FOR the man.
    That we need to feel he somehow 'deserves' it, and also we need to feel
    safe and secure.  Maybe it's just me .... but I agree with that.  If he
    breaks a promise or says/does something "scarey", the last thing I want
    to do is make love.  If he says/does something more wonderful that
    makes me feel better about "us", or if he's treated me particularly
    special, I WANT to give back to him, and want him all the more.
    
    Another thing is Location, location, location!!  If you're always in
    the bedroom, and that's where you nurse the baby, or fold the laundry,
    it could just be that THAT'S what you're thinking about, instead of
    your husband seducing you (-:  
    
    Take him to a hotel.  Everyone thinks about sex at a hotel.  Without
    the constant reminders of the baby, and all the work surrounding that,
    you may find your husband suddenly a lot more appealing.
    
    So ....... maybe this is all hot air, or maybe it'll help.  BUT, they
    always say "whenever there are other problems, sex is the FIRST thing
    that goes on the back burner".  
    
    Good Luck!!
    Patty
    
    
    
    
    

    
    re .0
    
    There are a few things that crossed my mind:
    
    	- If you suspect a hormonal cause, by all means,
    talk to your ob/gyn. For me, certain medications,
    like oral birth control, lowers my sex drive.
    
    	- Maybe you are overwhelmed with the constant
    demand of motherhood. You could consider having
    someone take the baby overnight, you and your
    husband could plan something nice for the evening.
    
    	- Make time for yourself. It is hard to do with a
    young one, but we all need to fulfil our own needs,
    *before* others' need can filled in good disposition.
    
    	- Maybe you can talk frankly with your husband
    about how you really feel and not hide behind excuses.
    Non-communicaton is the worst thing for intimacy.
    From my experience, no matter how hectic life gets
    with new baby for new mothers, some new fathers need to be 
    reassured that their wife is still there for them and
    that new baby has not replaced them. 
    
    
    Eva 

	I agree with Patty.  I had this same problem with my first and once
	I started getting myself in shape and taking time to do things for
	myself, I felt better and felt more like giving.  It's happened again
	with #2, she's 6months old and for a while, I just didn't feel
	like it, then she started sleeping better and so did we and I still
	didn't feel like it.  You think I would have realized sooner since
	this is the second baby, but I starting taking time to go out more
	for myself and started exercising more and I feel better and the
	problem just seems to be disappearing.

	I agree also that when I don't think he does his share, I get mad
	and then that's the last thing on my mind.  But we're working on 
	this by talking.  I let him now that that's the way my mind works
	and I can't change it, so there will be times that if I feel he
	isn't pulling his weight, then it isn't going to happen.

	It takes a while to work these things out, but my #1 suggestion
	is to make yourself feel better (what ever that means for you)
	and then your "relations" will improve.  For me, I felt fat and
	wasn't fitting back into clothes as soon as I had wanted, but now
	that I'm taking the time to workout more and the pounds are SLOWLY
	coming off, I feel better and better and we're enjoying each other
	more.

	Good Luck - I know it's not easy.
	Karen T.

    I know I was told or read somewhere that while you nurse, your
    drive tends to be lower also.   I don't know why, hormonal I
    guess.  You didn't mention if you were nursing or not, but perhaps
    someone else here can confirm that or dispel it as myth?
    
    					cj *->

    Are you nursing and have your periods returned yet?  With number three
    it was 13 months from the birth of Atlehi before I had normal hormones
    again, and my interest rate was quite low during that time.  It wasn't
    that Frank wasn't doing his part, as he was/is the primary caretaker
    and the stay-at-home parent, but not having my normal cycle just didn't
    give me the "urges" that I normally did.  I really do believe the "old
    wives' tale" that a baby takes two years, not just one from start to
    finish before you are back to yourself.  
    
    With Lolita, the OB apparently thought he was doing her father a favor
    and added a couple of "extra" stitches repairing the episiotomy site. 
    I don't know if this is your case, but if you are having problems with
    intercourse being painful, I would see a doctor about it.  I didn't and
    it was a long time before things got comfortable again.  It did not do
    good things for Lolita's father and me.  
    
    Also I know there is a different factor in sex once you have been
    pregnant, unless there is/was a major fertility issue, you know it can
    happen again.  I sometimes think this has had a psychological impact on
    how I view sex, and Frank says he knows it has had an impact on him. 
    
    Definitely take time for yourself, and if you have ruled out any
    physical reasons, work with your partner on the other possibilities. 
    New babies, especially the first, do disprupt lots of things.  An
    evening away or a friendly neighbor who will give you a couple of hours
    at home with no kids is always helpful.  
    
    meg

    
    re: .0
    
    I can relate too.  In fact, even now, with Lauren being almost 2 years
    old, I find I'm often not in the mood.  One thing I did notice is that,
    even when not in the mood, once started, I usually enjoyed myself.
    
    The primary reason for not being in the mood was just tiredness.  I
    work full time, then come home and have to be Mommy.  By the time she
    is in bed and all the chores are done, it is time for bed and I really
    just want to sleep, not "do it".  And if I did have 1/2 hour to relax
    I wanted that time for me.  So, weeknights are generally not an
    option for me and I just don't worry about it.  My husband usually
    feels the same way.  Weekends are the best for us and I try to make 
    sure that the weekend does not go by without making love at least once.
    Even if I'm not in the mood on the weekend, I will try and I usually
    will let loose and enjoy it once started.  It also gets me off the hook
    during the work week when I KNOW I will not be in the mood.
    
    I'd suggest nap time on the weekends.  That way you aren't too
    tired from the days chores.  And your chores can wait.  Whats more
    important, your husband or the laundry?  You can always bribe him
    for help...
    
    Karen
    

    It's not so much that I've lost any drive [Evan is 3.5 months]. The
    interest came back fairly quickly. The energy has not.
    
    Sex just isn't something I have ever entered into off-handedly. If I
    can't put the effort in to enjoy it, I'd rather pass.
    
    And it is different as a nursing mother. It takes a sense of humour on
    the part of those involved to adjust to the changes that lactation can
    bring to the experience.
    
    I think the advice to take time for yourself is excellent. I
    keep forgetting to take it myself and become frantic with all the
    things I think I "have" to get done. Rick and I both put Evan first for
    now; but Rick is better at getting time in for himself -- and offers me
    every opportunity to do the same, I just have a hard time getting
    around to it. So, I get tired and panicky and resentful. Not good.
    
      Annie

    My ob-gyn has strongly recommended that I do the Keogel (sp?)
    exercises daily and even I am beginning to feel that I can't
    hold off going to the bathroom without some stronger muscles.
    
    My question - are they really effective?  HOW do you do them?
    ie - how long do you hold, how tight, how often, exactly where
    is it felt the most, etc etc etc.  I just need someone
    to be a little more specific before my face starts making scrunches
    that I don't want to have to explain to folks 
    about what the rest of my body is concentrating on!
    
    
    Thanks - Kathy
    223-8499
    
    Mods - please move if this string has been started already.  I looked
    

    I believe Kegel exercises really are effective.  I started out doing
    about 100 per day, squeezing and releasing in about 2 second intervals.
    I worked up to probably about 400 per day, doing about 50 or so every
    time I thought of it (in the car, at my desk, watching tv...).
    
    My Bradley childbirth book recommended advanced Kegels where you would
    actually hold the squeeze for 15 second intervals before releasing. 
    These were much tougher as you started the squeeze at the very bottom
    of the pelvic floor and worked your way to the top before releasing it
    in a downward direction.
    
    I pushed for a whopping three hours before Katie popped out.  I had the
    stamina to keep pushing efficiently for that long and was very
    comfortable using those muscles by the time of the birth.
    
    I do know that several of my friends have had bladder control
    problems....both before and after the birth.  I was surprised to hear
    their stories as I have not experienced anything like what they have
    been or are still going through.  Coughs, sneezes, noseblowing, jumping
    jacks, squats, and sometimes nothing at all will cause leakage.
    
    They say to continue them after the birth and to make a habit of doing
    them every day FOREVER.  I have not been that dedicated and pretty much
    only do them now when I think of it, which is probably once a month.
    
    Kristen
    

    
    The way it was described to me, is that you contract the muscles you
    would as if you were to stop peeing midstream.  
    
    Hold for 5-20 seconds, squeeze as hard as you can.  I don't remember
    how many repetitions .... when I was pregnant, I pretty much did them
    all the time.  I'd start doing them, and sometime during the course of
    working or watching tv or whatever, I'd forget and stop, and later
    remember and start again.  No one can tell if you're doing them, and
    they are *VERY* effective.
    
    Put it this way - WHAT do you have to lose ?!  And the more "in shape"
    they are, the better your love life!
    
    Squeeze-2-3-4, Squeeze-2-3-4 ....
    

    
    I never (well hardly) ever did them when I was pregnant with my 1st
    daughter and I experienced the control problems afterwards, however, 
    from beginning to end, my daughter took 28 hours to come out (3 hours
    of pushing).
    
    I never (well hardly) ever did them when I was pregnant with my 2nd 
    daughter and I didn't experience any control problems this time around
    (shes 5 weeks old now, however, from beginning to end, it took 5 hours
    to get her out (40 minutes of pushing)
    
    So, I think k in my experience, time of actual labor/pushing had alot 
    to do with it.