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Conference moira::parenting

Title:Parenting
Notice:Previous PARENTING version at MOIRA::PARENTING_V3
Moderator:GEMEVN::FAIMANY
Created:Thu Apr 09 1992
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1292
Total number of notes:34837

56.0. "Problem dealing with neighbors kids!" by DELNI::MCPARTLAN (the beauty just keeps shaking me) Wed Apr 22 1992 11:43

    
    Hi,
    
    I'm not sure if this is the place to put this...
    
    I don't have children, but I had a problem last weekend dealing with
    neighbor's children.  I'm new to my neighborhood and don't know any of
    our neighbors yet.  I live on a dead-end street and don't see to many
    people passing thru.  Sunday, I was looking out my bedroom window and
    saw 2 kids (maybe 12 years old?) walking down my street.  They stopped
    at my neighbors house and started breaking up my neighbors fence!  I
    don't know what kind of fence it was, but it looks like this type with
    the round logs:
    
    		 |	 |	 |	 |
    		_|_______|_______|_______|_
     		 |	 |	 |	 |
    		 |	 |	 |	 |
    		_|_______|_______|_______|_
    		 |	 |	 |	 |
    		 |	 |	 |	 |
    
    Anyway, one of the horizontal posts was cracked in the middle and was 
    supported by a stick, so the kids didn't actually break the post, they 
    just kicked out the stick supporting the post and pulled the broken post 
    apart. I didn't know how to handle the situation, so I didn't do anything.  
    I just watched them do it.  Part of me wanted to go out and yell at these
    brats, but then I didn't cuz I have a pets and didn't want these kids
    doing anything to my house, yard, car or pets.  What could I have
    done to stop this?  It really bothers me that I didn't do anything, but
    I didn't want to cause trouble with these kids parents either.
    
    Any advice?
    
    Donna
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56.1Firm, yet unobtrusive...A1VAX::DISMUKESay you saw it in NOTES...Wed Apr 22 1992 15:229
    The do-gooder chicken in me would have stood back from an unobvious
    open window and yelled with a deep scary voice
    
    		Hey you kids, get away from there.
    
    Worked on me when I was a kid!
    
    -sandy
    
56.2getting to know themKAOFS::M_FETTalias Mrs.BarneyWed Apr 22 1992 15:4014
    
    Good question; I can't say I would have run out and yelled at them
    myself, but possibly just make my presence known (like pretend you are
    going out to water the garden or something so they know you are
    witnessing their vandalism) that's usually enough to get them to
    stop. 
    
    I WOULD introduce myself to the neighbors and discuss the 
    problem though. Who knows when the situation may be reversed; 
    neighbors are more likely to stick their heads out for people they
    know. These kids may be a known problem in the area....
    
    Monica
     
56.3wrong is wrongTNPUBS::STEINHARTLauraThu Apr 23 1992 09:2614
    At the risk of sounding like a meanie, I believe that if kids damage
    other people's property, they should be accountable for their actions,
    especially if the damage is deliberate.  How can we expect them to
    learn moral responsibility if we hold them to a lesser standard than
    adults?
    
    I believe that these kids parents should compensate the homeowner for
    the cost of repairing the fence.
    
    Concern about annoying the kids or bothering their parents pales beside
    the priority of rectifying the situation and preventing the kids from
    going on further malicious sprees.  If the children's parents are
    irresponsible and did not act to prevent further vandalism, I would
    not hesitate to call the police.
56.4Help avoid the wrong children being accused alsoTANNAY::BETTELSCheryl, Eur. Ext. Res. Prg., DTN 821-4022Thu Apr 23 1992 09:4729
We have a family in our neighborhood who have two very small children (2 and 4) 
who play on our dead end street a lot.  I believe they have broken several
things like our neighbors' lamp and one of our flower pots although I have
no proof it was them.  First the neighbors' lamp was broken.  The neighbor
called up every family in the neighborhood with whom she was on speaking terms
(not the family with the two little boys nor the other most likely candidate
whose son had done similar things in the past) and accused the children of 
breaking the lamp.  Needless to say, there were quite a few upset parents and
several more families no longer on speaking terms :-)

A few weeks later, our flower pot was broken and of course J�rgen thinks it's 
the neighbors taking revenge.  (It was a rather expensive pot but..)  Now,
I'm not going to turn about and start accusing people without proof so I told
J�rgen that I prefer to think it was vandals late one night.

My point is that if my kids break something, I want to know about it.  I want to
feel that they are honest enough to own up to what they've done and accept
the consequences of their actions.  But I also don't want them falsely
accused.  If you had seen my children breaking your neighbors' fence, I would
definitely want you to tell me.  If was somebody else's children, I would as
a parent of non offenders, prefer that you tell someone so that my children
wouldn't be falsely accused.

If it was my fence that you saw being broken, I'd want to know to undertake 
action so that the offenders are made to realise that this behaviour is wrong.

And, if I were you, I'd get out there and meet those neighbors and get on the
best terms with them that you can.  With all your neighbors, in fact. Good
neighbors are one of the insurances you can have.
56.5HYEND::C_DENOPOULOSParking Lot Flyer!!Thu Apr 23 1992 11:4013
    
    Donna, keeping silent is the wrong thing to do.  I live on a dead end
    street.  It's different than living anywhere else.  The people on your
    street are like a small community.  You watch out for their homes and
    they'll watch out for yours.  If all this happened and the neighbors
    now you were home, are they going to bother when something happens to
    your house??  If someone damaged my property and you saw it and did
    nothing, I'd be more upset with you!!!  You could have yelled out a
    window, walked outside, even called the police.  I'm sorry if this may
    sound harsh, but the "Don't want to get involved" attitude just doesn't
    cut it with me!
    
    Chris D.
56.6Tell, tell, tellMAYES::SKOWRONEKThu Apr 23 1992 13:5428
    
    Personally, I would call up the neighbor whose fence you saw being
    broken, and tell them about it --- Who know's maybe these kids were
    asked to do it??  And if you know who did it, I would tell your
    neighbor, or at least describe the kids to him/her.  I would also tell
    your neighbor, that you don't want your name mentioned as the one who
    "spilled the beans".  That way you don't have to worry about these kids
    retaliating against you & your home.
    
    If it was my child, I would definately want to know.  If it was my
    property, I would also like to know what happened.  I had a similar
    thing happen to me.  I live on the corner of a major road and a small
    side street.  A few years ago, I was out mowing my lawn when I noticed
    that my fence had been vandalized --- I have a stockade fence and it
    looked as though someone was walking along and decided to pull off the
    slats -- a couple were forcably broken, and one section of the fence
    came completely out.  I filed a claim with my Home insurance Company,
    and had that area of the fence replaced, but I did have to pay my
    deductable.  I wish I had known who vandalized my fence, as I would
    have had them pay the deductable.  
    
    Sorry to get off track, but definately let your neighbor know what
    happened, and give him/her as much info as you can, so that they can
    go after these kids themselves.
    
    Good Luck
    Debby
    
56.7it's no better with teen drivers!AKOCOA::TRIPPTue May 12 1992 15:0524
    Recently we witnessed our neighbor's friend back out of their driveway
    and flatten our mailboxes (2 mailboxes on one post, our drivways sort
    of meet as in a pie wedge) First my husband walked next door to let
    them know what had happened.  Both young men (+/-17years) got out to
    survey the damage and drove off.  The mother answered the door and my
    husband informed the mothere of what had happened.  Her reaction was
    what made him so sure it was *their* son.  (c'mon get real folks!).  Then
    the she left in her vehicle.  I called and pretty much said the same
    thing to the father, who gave me much the same answer, I decided at
    that point to demand that some action be taken to repair the damage, or
    I'd be quite happy to call the police to report either vandalism or a
    property damage hit and run accident.  At this point the father said he
    would speak to him.
    
    What happened was they put the mailboxes on the ground, left them there
    for a full week, I was needles to say getting a little anoyed, and
    finally fixed them the following weekend.
    
    We have decided that it's time to split the two mailboxes onto separate
    posts, and will be doing that soon.
    
    Was I wrong, I don't think so.  
    
    Lyn  
56.8*HOW* can you just SIT there and want to LIVE there too?BCSE::WEIERPatty, DTN 381-0877Mon Sep 14 1992 17:3792
    
    <FLAME ON>
    WOW!!!  I know these entries are old, but I'm just getting to read
    them.  Are people really THAT afraid of KIDS?!?!???  Are you THAT
    afraid of fighting for what is RIGHT and LEGAL??  Is it THAT okay with
    you if kids go and trash the neighborhood - just so it's not "your"
    stuff?  Is the world a perfect place just so you can sit in a bubble
    and not be affected by it????
    
    ANYTHING WORTH HAVING IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!!
    
    Sometimes you have to "fight" for your safety and your property.
    Perhaps I'm too outspoken, but *FOR SURE* I'd have been out there with
    those two kids, and dragged them back home, threatening them all the
    way.  Folks, WE are adults.  THEY are kids.  These are the kids that
    OUR kids have to face on the playground - wouldn't you like to have a
    little control over it now?  These are the kids who'll Have kids and
    mug US when we're old.  
    
    No, they're not OUR kids, but then again aren't ALL kids a LITTLE bit
    our responsibility??  If you're at the playground, and that brat is
    there throwing sand into other kids' faces, don't you speak up???  I
    know I do all the time.  And you know something??  ALL kids are pretty
    much *AFRAID* of Adults!!!  Now THERE'S something!!  Go back to ANY
    kid, tell him/her to knock it off - they MIGHT give you a dirty look. 
    They usually shut up and try to disappear.  They ALWAYS keep an eye out
    for you to see if you're watching to see if they misbehave again.
    
    My oldest is 7 years old, and since the time he's been able to crawl,
    we've been at playgrounds or at the pool at the apt. or at the beach. 
    And everywhere you go, there's always at least One kid determined to
    ruin it for everyone else.  And everywhere you go, all the other
    parents will try to move their kids away from the bully, and will
    actually ALLOW the bully to run the whole playground/beach/pool or
    whatever.  Well, that's horsesh*t!!  MY kid has as much right to be
    there as anyone else - I'm not going to let some other kid push them
    around.  And if that kids' parents aren't there, then even better.  And
    if that kids' parents ARE there and here you "yelling at" their kid,
    they're usually too embarrased to say anything.  And the kid is usually
    too SHOCKED to do anything other than what you say (quite obviously
    they've NEVER been disciplined before!).
    
    These kids don't need a pleasant little reminder - that crap doesn't
    work on kids like that.  They've already walked all over everyone
    because they've been treated all tender etc.  For these kids with the
    fence, I'd have gone right outside (probably with a stick or something,
    JUST to keep them on edge), gone RIGHT up to them, put on my meanest
    face, and asked them "What the HELL do you think you're DOING?!?!"  NO
    question about it - they're in Trouble.  DEMAND an answer, if they
    start to say something else, DEMAND an answer.  YOU can't back down. 
    They'll remember you, for sure, but they'll also be frightened enough
    of you to never try to get back at you.  Don't underestimate how smart
    they are.  If you yell at them from a window, they'll KNOW that you're
    too much of a coward to come out and face them, and they WILL be back. 
    If they REALLY think you might hurt them or get them in trouble,
    there's plenty of easier people to pick on.  Trust me, coming from a
    kid who used to cause trouble ... kids know the difference between the
    people you *NEVER* mess with, and the ones that you CAN mess with cuz
    it's fun to watch them try to make you stop.  
    
    Come down HARD on them.  Kids that age, *MOST* parents are pretty
    reasonable still.  They REALIZE they've lost control, or are losing, OR
    they don't have a clue what's going on.  Take them home, try to talk to
    their parents in front of them.  EXPLAIN that you won't have this kind
    of vandalism in YOUR neighborhood, or anywhere else you might see them. 
    EXPLAIN that if you see them again you'll take them straight to the
    police.  Another major advantage is that kids are fairly ignorant of
    the laws.  They KNOW that vandalism is illegal - they don't understand
    the punishments, nor do they understand there'd probably be None.  FEAR
    is a wonderful thing for kids like this.  
    
    If you WANT to be able to go to work and know that when you come home,
    your house will be intact, if you WANT to be able to walk the streets
    at night, if you WANT to know that your kids can walk down the street
    without meeting a pusher on the corner, then you have to FIGHT for
    these things!!!!!!  There's TOO MANY parents that AREN'T parents at
    all.  There's too MANY kids/ "bad guys" for the police to be able to
    be everywhere at the same time - geez, at LEAST do your part.  What
    would you have done if they decided to break up YOUR fence instead of
    the neighbor's??  If you're that afraid, keep a baseball bat by the
    door -- but if you're not going to take a stand in your own
    neighborhood, then you shouldn't expect to have a very safe one!!
    
    <FLAME OFF>
    
    Sorry if I've offended anyone .... but you know, if you don't protect
    yourself and your stuff now, some day these little creeps will be BIG
    creeps, and you won't have a chance to knock 'em back down a peg then.
    Yah, it's just a fence - today.  What will it be tomorrow??  They did
    it once, and got away with it, scot free ... they'll be back.