Conference moira::parenting

              -< DCRA (Digital Childcare Reimbursement Account) >-

Has anyone out there received their reimbursement check for March yet?  Today's
the 16th and as of yesterday, no check.  (We are actually waiting for *two*
checks, since JH claims they did not receive our forms until March 3rd.)  I
wonder if Digital realizes the hardship JH puts us through when they make us
wait for our *own* money.

ann

    I sent in a Health care reimbursement claim on 3/30 and received my
    check on Tuesday of this week - 4/14.
    

    My DCRA check hasn't arrived yet either.  JH says my check was mailed
    on the 10th (last Friday), and they theorize that possibly everyone
    mailing tax returns at the last minute has slowed up the mail.  I
    assume it will show up today or tomorrow.

    I just recieved my check yesterday - 4/15/92.  So you should receive it
    soon.

    
    I also haven't received my check yet and am hoping that it will come
    today.  It was mailed around 3/24, so it should have arrived at JH
    before the end of the month.  
    
    What is the phone number that you called to find out if it had been
    mailed out?  I hate the days of waiting to find out if it will be
    delayed a month!
    
    Carol

    
    I also sent in my claim 3/17 and just recived my check yesterday.
    Actually I called Hancock to inquire about it. It seems like it took
    much longer to arrive this month especially since they were cut on the
    10th.
    
    -clotelle

    In my earlier note I forgot to mention I also had a question regarding
    my account balance. My statement yesterday indicated $22.00 even though
    I have been carrying a balance of $118.40 consistenly. When I called
    the office today they told me they hadn't received the tape from DEC
    yet.  I'll be checking again with them next week to check this figure
    
    -clotelle
    

    
    	I just got my check today from february...it is a bizzare time 
    	lag, b/c the check had feb and march in it and i mail in the
    	forms the second week of each month....things that make you go 
    	hmmmmm....
    

    Today is 4/16, and no check yet - I mailed it in on 3/24.
    

    It doesn't matter how early in the month you mail your receipts in. 
    They are supposed to process everything they receive by the end of the
    month, and cut all the checks on the 10th of the month.  I just wonder
    why it should take a week for it to arrive.  

    My husband and I both got our DCRA checks yesterday.  I noticed that
    both checks were dated the 10th but they were postmarked the 14th.
    
    Carol

This is a bit of a tangent - but I wonder if there is a way to convince
Digital and/or John Hancock to improve the way they handle the DCRA.  It 
looks to me like JH has been sitting on peoples money and essentially earning
interest that doesn't really belong to them.

At my husband's company, Mitre,  both weekly withholding and weekly
disbursements are handled automatically through payroll.  What ends up
happening is that after the first couple weeks of the year - the weekly
withholding equals the weekly disbursement.  There's no muss, and no fuss.
All you have to do is turn in your receipts each week.

When Michelle was first born we used DCRA here at Digital.  Needless to say
once we discovered how much simpler the process was at Mitre, we switched
to my husband's plan.  If any of you have spouses at another company, you 
may want to see what type of process they have defined.

- Carol

    
    Can you use this service if your provider is off the books?
    
    

    Yes, as long as your provider is willing to give you her SS# for you
    to put on the claim form.  If she refuses, I think you can still submit
    claims with some note like "provider refused to give SS#", or some such
    thing.  

Could you use the DCRA if your provider doesn't have a Social Security number?

Couldn't you get in trouble if you say that your provider refused to give 
you her SS#?  Does anyone know the repercussions with this??

						---Sue.

>Could you use the DCRA if your provider doesn't have a Social Security number?

Do you mean if s/he is an illegal alien?

>Couldn't you get in trouble if you say that your provider refused to give 
>you her SS#?  Does anyone know the repercussions with this??>

You will not get in trouble but you will get your provider in trouble.  You
must show that you made an effort to obtain the ss number, and give details of
name, address, etc... (all you can provide) - then the IRS takes it from there!

    
    We don't have anything like this in Oz - what is DCRA?
    
    Deb
    

"DCRA" - I believe that the correct meaning is Dependent Care Reimbursement
Account - is a method of legally avoiding paying income tax on (a portion of)
the amount that you pay for childcare (I believe that the law also allows for
care of other dependents, such as elderly parents or adult dependents with
physical handicaps).

An amount of money is deducted by the employer from the employee's paycheck,
and is not counted in the employee's taxable income.  The amount of money is
then paid to the employee by the employer when the employee submits a receipt
indicating that the employee has paid for dependent care.

Most of the problems you see discussed concern employees who have submitted 
the receipt but have not been reimbursed by Digital.

The reason you don't have this in Oz is because a DCRA is specifically set
up under U.S. tax law, and may not make sense elsewhere.  U.S. tax law has
a number of ways of lrgally avoiding paying income tax; the Employee Stock 
Purchase Plan and a savings program called a 401k (after the section of U.S. 
tax laws) are other examples.

Excuse us for using U.S. jargon.

Clay 

From the last reply, I believe the benefit of DCRA is that you
would not have to pay income tax on the money you spend on
daycare.  Is this correct?  Are there other benefits?  Disadvantages? 

Has anyone figured out at what point this is more of an
advantage than the tax credit offered when you file your taxes?

If there is a discussion of how DCRA works in another notesfile,
please let me know.  

Ginny

re: .19

>If there is a discussion of how DCRA works in another notesfile,
>please let me know.  

In addition to any responses you may get here, see Parenting_V3, notes 617 and 
867.

Clay

re: 40.16

Not if she is illegal, but if she is on a temporary visa (6 month) and goes back
to her country to renew it when necessary...

Also, what are the repercussions of having someone illegal ???

>Also, what are the repercussions of having someone illegal ???

Unless they are working in your home (in which case you are obligated to
provide all of the regular employer "stuff" including minimum wage, etc...)
it is not your responsibility to verify their status.  It is your responsibility
to try to obtain their SS# and prove you did so.

    I am carrying a high balance through no fault of my own. My question is
    how do I go about getting this money out? My daycare facility charges
    $110/wk and I have $96 deducted. DCRA reimburses me every month for
    $440 excluding this balance. My daughther will be staring pre-school
    June 1st at $90/wk rate so I really need to straighten this out. Any
    suggestions would be welcome. Oh my daycare facility are paid 52 wks
    year around for holidays, vacations etc.
    
    -clotelle
    

    According to my figures you should be OK by the end of the year.
    
    	22 weeks @ a deduction of $96/week and an expenxse of $110/week.
    		(22x110) - (22x96) = $308 short balance in DCRA.
    
    	30 weeks @ a deduction of $96/week and an expense of $90/week.
    		(30x90)  - (30x96) = $180 excess balance in DCRA.
    
    	$308 - $180 = $128 short for the year.  The $180 will be reinbursed 
    	to you due to the $308 shortage from the first 22 weeks of the
    	year and the $180 excess from the last 30 weeks of the year.

    Larry- thanks much for taking the time to do this for me. It is very
    helpful.
    
    -clotelle
    

    
    Can someone help me understand what kind of receipts are necessary;
    what kind of info on the daycare provider is needed; and how the IRS
    keeps track of this (I'm assuming they do, somehow!)
    
    thanks
    
    Jamd
    

    Does anyone still have any of the memos or benefits bulletins 
    about changes to DCRA policies that were distributed before
    the open enrollment period last year?
    
    As I recall, and my PSA agrees but can't find it in writing, there was 
    a change so that you could drop out at any time during the year (in case 
    your deduction was too high).   At the same time that policy was 
    changed, I seem to remember you could also enroll at any time--one
    change only per employee per year.
    
    We've increased my daughter's at daycare beyond the amount
    of my deduction, so I want my husband to enroll to cover part of the
    expenses.
    
    		--Andrea

    
    My question is similar to Andrea's in the previous note:
    I want to STOP my DCRA contribution in mid-year.  Can I do this?
    
    Does anyone have any experience with the conditions under which we are
    allowed to make a change?  I know I can start/stop/change DCRA if
    one spouse changes job status, returns from leave, moves too far away
    from caregiver, etc. 
    
    I want to stop DCRA since I've found a lower cost, better-for-my child
    daycare situation. 
    
    Another justification I could use is that my caregiver doesn't want to do
    full-time (5 days); I currently work 4/10 hr days.  
    
    Any experiences you can share?  I have a call  into personnel, but
    sometimes I get different answers depending who I talk to.
    
    Thanks,
    Rachel

    re .28
    
    Yes, I did stop my DCRA after I found out that in my situation I would
    be get a little under $100 better tax break if I did NOT fill out all
    of the forms and put my daycare person through weekly receipts.
    
    There is a form that you simply write cancel DCRA across a section and
    it will be cancelled the next paycheck if received by personnel by
    Thursday of the previous week.  
    
    See your human resources person for the appropriate form.  
    
    I believe that you cannot restart the DCRA until the following year. 
    It is a one time cancellation, and you do not have to have a change in
    family status to do so.  I gave no reasons for cancelling, and mine has
    been stopped months ago.
    
    Jolene

    
    I also was told by my PSA (and thought I read it somewhere) that you
    could make one change to your deduction  during the year.  Just last
    week I received a notice from personnel stating that you couldn't make
    a change unless your family status changed.  Were other people told
    this when they enrolled in the program this year?
    
    Also, are checks real late this month due to holidays/vacations?  I am
    patiently waiting for my check, but it is usually here by the 13th.  It
    was sent in June 25, which is normally plenty of time for it to be
    processed.  Someone mentioned a phone number that you could call to
    check on the status of your claim, can someone post it here?
    
    Thanks
    Carol

    
    I got my check yesterday.  They were definitely late this month.
    
    When I enrolled, I was told that that you couldn't make any changes
    during the year unless your family status changed.

    
    RE:40.30
    
      You probably won't receive a check this month.  The DATE you
      send in your stuff is not the basis for receiving your check.
      They (J.H) must receive your stuff BY THE LAST PAYDAY OF THE
      MONTH, in this case, they would have had to receive it by the
      25th of the month to get a check on the 13th or so of this month.
    
      I've already had this problem before so I called and got this info.

    I got my check as well on 7/15 this month, but I can assure you I
    did NOT mail my forms by the last paycheck day of the month.  I had
    called J.H. when I first started the program (this year), and they told
    me that the forms had to be received by the last day of the month. 
    What forms they received, they would process and would "run" the check
    process on the 10th of the month, and they would probably be mailed
    that day or the next.
    
    I know that the above was tested to the max this month and I still got
    my check, because due to a death in the family I didn't get the forms
    in mid month as usual.  I needed the money this month, so I FED-EX'd my
    forms with a one day delivery on JUNE 29TH!!!! ...so I lucked out and
    they must have received it by the 30th.
    
    FWIW - Beth
    

    Thanks for the info on stopping DCRA.  I did use the Benefits change
    form (for DCRA, HCRA) and just changed the deduction to 00.0.
    No problem.  No justification required!
    
    By the way,  during my discussion with JH, I found out that they didn't
    receive my check in time for the July reimbursement (grrr). I sent it
    around the 25th of June.
    
    I was told that JH has to 1) receive the form  *AND* 2) internally
    'stamp' it, by the end of the Month, for a payment to be made.
    In other words, don't count on postmarked by the end of the month.
    Another noter had the right idea - sending it in by the MIDDLE of the
    month, to make sure it has enough time to get there and get processed
    by JH.
    
    There must be an easier way... 

    Yes, there's always some doubt if they'll get your form "on time".
    Nothing like having to wait 2 months to get your money back.  I also
    really dislike having to wait up to a full week after checks are
    supposedly "cut" to get it in the mail.  I don't see why they can't do
    electronic funds transfer on the same day directly into my checking
    account.  I submitted this idea to Delta ideas, but haven't heard
    anything yet.  The system really could use some improvement, but it
    saves me so much in taxes that I put up with the hassles.

    Deb's comments got me thinking.  We haven't used the DCRA
    in the past, but now that Steven will be attending a new
    Daycare Center soon, I've been considering enrolling in
    DCRA.
    
    I have loosely followed this notes string and so many
    negatives comments seem to pop up.  Do the advantages
    outweigh the negatives here?
    
    And is DCRA worth it for part time daycare?
    
    Linda

    Re: .-1... in my case, I put in the full $96/week.  Basically, I'm
    reducing my taxable income by $5,000/year, which depending on your tax
    bracket, can save you about $1500 in taxes.  I consider that worth
    it.  

    
    The DCRA benefits those people in the higher income brackets.  Using
    the DCRA they are able to still get a good tax benefit for their child
    care dollars.   They are able to pay the daycare expenses using pre-tax
    dollars, which reduces your income at tax time.
    
    If you don't use the DCRA, you can write the expenses off on your taxes
    at the end of the year.  However, depending on your income, you can
    only write off a certain percentage of the cost.  I can't remember the
    exact numbers, but I believe the higher tax bracket can only write off
    20% of the day care expense.
    
    If you look at the tax booklet from 1991, I believe they have a
    worksheet so that you can estimate how much of the expenses you could
    write off without using the DCRA.  From there, you can judge whether
    the DCRA would benefit your situation.
    
    Personally, I have had good luck with the program.  In almost two years
    I have never had to wait a month for the check to come, and I usually
    send the receipts in during the beginning of the last week.
                        

    Consider your Social Security withholding.  
    
    You cannot ever get it back once it is paid out, unlike IRS witholding. 
    So if you can reduce your taxable income on your paycheck, you will
    save that SS. money.  If you underestimate both your Soc. Sec.
    witholding and your IRS witholding, you can get penalized by IRS if the
    underestimate is too big, but there's no penalty by SS.  The less
    I pay to SS, the happier I feel.
    
    SS is an abysmal investment for most middle income people.  We
    may actually LOSE money on it by the time we retire.  Uggh.
    
    If you won't save on you tax bill by using DCRA, you will still save
    some on your SS outlay.  That savings is offset by the lost interest on
    the 6 weeks overlap between your cash outlay for daycare and the
    refund.  So the amount is not a lot, but may be worthwhile to you.
    
    By the way, unless you're a tax genius, you need an accountant or
    financial planner to tell you whether you'll save much money using DCRA.
    The savings is directly proportional to your combined income, taking
    into account all other deductions, such as mortgage.
    
    But you won't lose any money, I believe.  Worst case is a wash,
    balanced against the aggravation of the paperwork.
    
    L

    Could someone please post the phone number for DCRA?  I have not
    received my check and I want to check on the status.
    
    Also, if you do not have enough taken out, can you use the difference
    on your income tax?  For example, if Daycare is $90/week and you have
    only $70 placed into DCRA, can you write off the $20/week difference?
    

                      <<< Note 40.40 by RDOMVX::YGRIGGS >>>
                           -< Phone number, please >-

        
   > Also, if you do not have enough taken out, can you use the difference
   > on your income tax?  For example, if Daycare is $90/week and you have
   > only $70 placed into DCRA, can you write off the $20/week difference?
    
    Yes.

    This was asked before, but I didn't see an answer.  Does anyone know
    what receipts are required?  Is a canceled check acceptable?  
    
    Thanks!

Don't know if a cancelled check is sufficient, but what worked for me was
getting a handwritten receipt from my daycare provider that just listed
the month's checks that were received from me: check #, date, amount, and
a total.  She signed it at the bottom and had her daycare name and license
number on the top.  Simple, but effective, and I always got reimbursed fine.

-Cori

    I send my cancelled checks and have not had a problem.  Occasionally
    they even photocopy the checks and send them back.  I guess it depends
    on the person processing the claim.
    
    Hope it helps.
    
    Angie
    

    What is the cut off date for 1992 DCRA receipts?  Can't recall if it is
    Jan 15 (big WHOOPS if so) or Feb 15 (more likely).
    
    Thx,
    L
    

    Since the first deduction came out paycheck ending 1/2/93 (which
    included five days from 92), are you allowed to submit this one for
    reimbursement?
    
    ..Lori

    We enrolled in the DCRA program for the first time this year.  I'm a
    little confused by the form I need to fill out.  I pay my day care 
    center by the 25th of each month for the next month.
    
    What do I put in for dates of service?  From Feb 1 to Feb 28?
    
    My receipt will show a higher amount than the $96 I have taken out.  Do
    I just multiply 96 by 4 weeks for the requested reimbursement amount?
    
    Thanks,
    
    judy

    
    Dates of service: I pay by the first of the month and I put 2/1 - 2/28.
    			I've never had a problem.
    
    My receipt always shows higher.  I just multiply by the number of weeks.
    Even if you screw up this part and put the actual amount of the
    daycare, it works out in the end because they will only give the
    amount that's in your DCRA account.  They will carry over the amount
    that they couldn't reimburse because you didn't have it in your account
    for the following month.  But in the end, you will only get $5,000/year
    (based on your $96/month).
    
    The real important part is to sign the form and make a copy of it
    and the receipt before you mail it, in case anything goes wrong.

    I've been in the HCRA plan for 2 or 3 years, so I know enough to
    photocopy *everything*.
    
    
    judy

I just enrolled in DCRA and am about to fill in the form and send in receipts 
for the first time. The form requests a tax id number of social security number 
for the care provider. 

Can I fill in the license number of my home care provider, or would I
 have to fill in her personal SS#?


/Thanks

/Malin Goodwin

    Her actual SSN or the TID of her business.  A license number is not
    a federal identifier, as I suspect it's a state number.
    
    		-John Bishop

    Since nobody answered my question, I thought I'd provide you with the
    answer.  The 1992 receipts must be sent on or before March 15.  Any
    money not returned to you on that date is kept by John Hancock. (Or the
    Digital fund they manage?  Either way, you can't get it.)
    
    Best to send in your remaining receipts as soon as possible and not
    wait until March.
    
    Laura
    

Hi,

We haven't received our check for March yet and although we 
haven't had any problems in the past with lost paperwork etc, I 
think I'm about to join the club.

Is there a number we can call to check on check status?

thanks
daryll

    They lost both my January and February paperwork.  The managed to find
    February's paperwork and cut me a special check but January's is still 
    missing.  For the first time this year I started doing medical
    reimbursements as well as daycare and included all the recipts in the same
    envelope.  That was a big mistake.  I think they are processed by
    seperate departments.
    
    Call the standard John Hancock number to find out about your
    reimbursements - DTN 223-3300.
    
    Carol

Date:        3/24/93 11:43:12 AM
From:        DICS_DIST (DICS_DIST@NEST@MRGATE@NROMTS@NRO)
Subject:     REIMBURSEMENT ACCOUNTS
To:          See Below


             *****THIS MESSAGE IS FROM U.S. BENEFITS*****


The deadline for requesting reimbursement for eligible 1992 health 
and/or dependent care expenses is approaching quickly.  Any amounts 
not claimed by March 31, 1993 will be forfeited.  To avoid forfeiture, 
make sure to submit all claims for 1992 calendar year expenses to John 
Hancock by no later than next Wednesday--March 31, 1993.

If you should have any questions about reimbursement accounts, 
including which expenses are eligible, please refer to Your Benefits 
Book on VTX.  To access this infobase, type VTX BENEFITS_US at the 
system prompt.

    Gee, I guess I'm not alone.  I also sent in my January HCRA and DCRA
    receipts in the same envelope.  I got the HCRA check, but no DCRA.
    
    I called the John Hancock people and was told that Digital printed up
    the envelopes for both departments on one, but we should *not* be 
    sending them in together.  Both receipts and the form have to go to
    both departments, and there is a greater risk in something getting
    lost.
    
    judy

	Are the limits on DCRA payroll deductions employee
	limits or family limits ?  ie, if both my husband and
	I work for Digital, can we each contribute the maximum 
	amount ?

	Thanks,
	Karen

    They are family limits.  In total the 2 of you can't withhold more than
    $5k.  If you do over-withhold you will have to pay tax on the amount
    over - there is a place on the federal tax childcare form to do this.
    
    Carol

	What do people use for receipts to send to John Hancock
	for reimbursement ?

	Do you provide a receipt for your provider to sign, or
	does she provide you with one ?

	My provider has only had one Digital employee that used
	DCRA in the past, and he brought her slips to sign.

	Suggestions ?

	Thanks,
	Karen

My provider gives receipts to everyone. I would want one regardless of whether
I needed it for DCRA or not.  She created a form stating she provided child care
services , lists her name and licence number and then fills in the current 
information.  I fill out the DCRA form along with a copy of this receipt to John 
Hancock.

Kathy

    Karen,
    
    I give one to my provider once a month, she signs it, I make a copy for
    myself and mail that into John Hancock.  I've been doing this for
    almost 2 years now and haven't had any problems with it.  If you want I
    can mail you my text file.
    
    Susan

My provider gives me one per month as well.  The first month I sent
in 4 reciepts, one for every week, then somebody told me they just
send one per month so I started doing that.  

Timing on this stuff is important.  You need to get your paperwork
to John Hancock by the end of the  month.  Then, on the 10th or so, they
print out the checks.  I got mine yesterday.  I was told that if you were 
late getting your paperwork in, you wouldn't get a check for that month.
You have to send your paperwork through U.S. Mail so make photocopies
of it first!

Karen

NAME OF PROVIDER:       
ADDRESS:               
                        
TELEPHONE:              

TAX ID:        

LICENSE #:      

CHILD'S NAME:  

        DATES OF CARE       |   AMOUNT PAID
        ====================================
                            |  
        --------------------|---------------
                            |  
        --------------------|---------------
                            |  
        --------------------|---------------
                            |  
        --------------------|---------------



PROVIDER'S SIGNATURE:____________________________       DATE:_______________

    	And remember... You'll want to have copies of your daycare receipts
    around when you get ready to do your taxes, too.  

    I enrolled in the DCRA account in August 92.  I received a tax bill
    from the IRS stating I owe an additional $254 of taxes on my $1500 of
    Dependent Care beneift reported by my employee.  I thought I didn't
    have to claim the DCRA amount re-imbursed to me as taxable income when
    I file my return.  I didn't claim it as taxable income in 93 either.
    
    Could someone please shed some light on this.  I have to return either
    the payment or a signed statement and supporting documents explaining
    why I disagree with the proposed change of $254 by December 23, 1994.
    
    Thanks,
    Tonya

	This is just a stab, but I'll try to guess why you got the 
	bill from the IRS...

	Last year, we contributed to a DCRA.  At the end of the year, this 
	showed up on my husband's W2 form as something like "dependent care 
	benefit".  I found it interesting that the wording makes it sound 
	like your employer is actually contributing this amount.  So, I'm 
	assuming that for SOME companies, rather than this being YOUR 
	before-tax contribution, it is a benefit paid by the employer.

	When you actually do your taxes at the end of the year, there is 
	a dependent care worksheet that must be filed.  On it, you are 
	supposed to start with the amount of this "benefit", and subtract 
	any actual expenses.  If you end up with a negative amount, you 
	paid more in daycare then you received from your DCRA.  Up to some 
	limit, you might still be able to deduct this difference from your 
	taxes (unlikely, since the limit is pretty low).

	If you end up with a positive amount, you got more "benefit" then 
	you spent in daycare.  Since this was "pre-tax" money then you are 
	expected to add it to your income, and pay taxes on it.  

	What I'm a little bit fuzzy on is where the amount that shows up 
	on your W2 form comes from.  If it is the amount you were actually 
	reimbursed for, then the tax worksheets should balance just fine.  
	
	However, if the W2 shows the amount that you CONTRIBUTED, and you 
	didn't have actual expenses for all of it, then I believe the 
	worksheets will show a positive balance that should be added to 
	your income.  The problem with this is that the DCRA accounts only 
	allow you to COLLECT the cash if you've shown a receipt for paid 
	dependent care expenses.  So, you might be paying taxes on money 
	you weren't actually able to collect (someone PLEASE correct me 
	if I'm wrong here).

	If the assumptions above are true, then I expect you got the bill 
	because of one of the following 

	  o  The IRS thinks you contributed more than a $5000 total 
	     per family for the year.

	  o  You did not do the worksheet to show the "actual expenses" 
	     which should be applied to your DCRA "benefit".

	  o  You paid more into your DCRA then you actually used for 
	     child care.
    
    If you can show receipts for dependent/daycare expenses that total the
    amount of your benefit, then I believe you should be okay.  However,
    keep in mind that this is my uneducated guess...

	Peggy

    
    I have a few questions about the tax credit for dependent care.  
    
    I have one child.  Looks like the maximum credit for one child is
    $2400 * .20 (for my income bracket) or $480.  However, we had
    the Dependent Care Reimbursement Account through Digital and
    contributed about $4500.  Our total expenses were $6500.  From my
    calculations with the form 2541 (not sure exact form number), it looks
    like I cannot claim any more of a credit.  
    
    Can anybody verify this?  Can I still take a credit for the $2000
    that I paid above the DCRA amount?  A coworker told me I could but
    I dont think I can.
    
    Another question... 
    
    If you have a DCRA account and contribute the max, that amounts to
    $1400 (assuming 28% tax bracket) in tax savings.  Other tax savings
    (state, SS) bring the total savings up to $2K!  If you don't have
    a DCRA account, then the most you get in tax savings for one child
    is $480!  Why the big difference?  Seems like you would be crazy 
    not to have DCRA!
    
    Final question...
    
    If it turns out that I cannot take any more tax credit, do I still
    have to file that form 2541.  Also, my daycare provider gave me a
    form with her name, SSN, etc. on it.  Do I need to attach that?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Karen

>>       <<< Note 896.0 by MPGS::HEALEY "Karen Healey, VIIS Group, SHR3" >>>
>>                  -< Dependent care tax credit questions... >-

>>    If it turns out that I cannot take any more tax credit, do I still
>>    have to file that form 2541.  Also, my daycare provider gave me a
>>    form with her name, SSN, etc. on it.  Do I need to attach that?

If you don't file the dependant care form with your taxes,  the IRS will
add back in the amount you had deducted for the DCRA account as income
and send you a bill for the extra taxes.  For those max'd out on
DCRA,  the form is only to confirm you used the money.

Garry    

    
    Karen,
    
    	From what I understand, we can do either the DCRA or tax credit,
    we cannot take the tax credit and the DCRA. The DEC benefit book has
    a good description, I think.
    
    	Yes, in a middle/upper tax bracket, DCRA is definitely a better
    deal. But for folks who cannot deal with the once a month reimbursement
    schedule or not know ahead of time how much they have to pay for
    daycare per year, DCRA is useless.
    
    	Last year, all we needed was the name and tax # (SS #) of the
    provider. I haven't received any form from my town's after school care
    program, so I am assuming that nothing's changed - I haven't started
    my taxes yet ;-)
    
    
    Eva
    
    
    Eva

    
    At $300+/week for daycare, I don't have $1200.-1500. to tie up waiting
    for a check to come in.  And if for some reason the paperwork isn't
    cleared in time, it'd be $2400 - $3000.00 for "2 months".  
    
    Do you find providers who are willing to wait until you're reimbursed?
    Or do you just have that much extra money that the waiting isn't a
    problem?
    
    Just curious, as it would CLEARLY benefit me to use DCRA (But I've
    never figured out HOW to be able to ...)

My understanding is that you can only contribute up to $96 per week, 
no matter how many children you have.  And, even if both parents have 
access to it, you can only contribute a total of $96 per week combined 
(one or the other or split between you).  

So the max you have to "float" is $96 x 4 ($384) for one month, or double 
that ($768) if you don't get a receipt there in time and it's two months.   

I'm not saying it isn't significant, but it's no where near $3000.  

    
    Hi Patty,
    
    To answer your question, the MOST you can put into DCRA is $96/week.
    So, you tie up about $400/month.  At the end of the month, you submit
    receipts and on the 10th of the following month, a check is made out
    to you to reimburse you.  You never get more than is in your account so
    when I submit a claim for $620, I get back $384 (sometimes more if it
    was a 5 week month).  The check arrives by the middle of the month.
    
    Takes a bit getting used to but the tax benefits are well worth it.
    
    There is one gotcha that irks me.... if your claim does not arrive
    by the last day of the month, you will not get a check written out
    to you on the 10th.  I sent mine in on the 31st of Jan last month
    so I will not be getting a check on the 10th.  Next month I'll get
    double but it is a pain since I want it now!
    
    Go for it Patty!  The extra money is wonderful.  Currently, you save
    about $1000 in taxes (for 2 kids) the way you are doing it.  This way
    you save an additional $1000.  Over 50 weeks, your $2K in tax
    savings reduces your actual cost of daycare by $40/week.  
    
    Karen
    
                                                              

    Actually, the max you would have to float would be even less then the
    $96 * 4 ($384).  The $96 is pre-tax money, so your take-home would be
    reduced by a figure less then the $96.  (I'm sure this varies depending
    on salary etc, but it will be less then the amount you elect to have
    taken out.)  

	Also, as far as claims go, John Hancock keeps track
	of the claims you have sent in and how much they
	have reimbursed you.  If your claims exceed your balance (and
	they usually do), and you forget to file a claim the next
	month, you'll still get a check from John Hancock around the
	10th (for the remainder of the previous claim or the max in
	your account, whichever is smaller).

	Karen

	

The tax deduction is up to 2400 for one child or 4800 for two or more children. 
The DCRA amount reimbursed is subtracted from the allowed deduction amount.  In
other words, if the DCRA amount is less than the tax deduction amount, you can
deduct the difference; if the DCRA amount is greater than the tax deduction
amount, you can't deduct anything.  Some examples (assuming one child for the
moment):

Expenses	2000	2000	3000	4000
DCRA reimbursed	1500	2000	2400	2000
Unreimbursed	 500	   0	 600	2000
Tax deduction	 500	   0	   0	 400

If you received (or forfeited) DCRA benefits, even if you have no deduction
left, you have to fill in form 2441, as noted earlier.

   I still don't get this DCRA stuff - is there a note anywhere in here 
   that explains it overall in simple terms ?  Or if someone wants to send
   me a brief explanation off-line, that'd be fine too !

     Let's see if I can answer my own question (now that I've read thru the
     DCRA note as well !!)  :

     If I pay my after-school help $50.00/wk for 35 wks, that's $1750.00
     If I pay summer-care (camp, etc.) $120.00/wk for 8 wks,    $ 960.00
								========
								$2710.00

     If I put in $50.00/wk into DCRA for 52 wks, that's       - $2600.00
								========
				which means I paid extra        $ 110.00

     Now, since I can only CLAIM $2400 for 1 child, I already exceeded that
     with the $2600 in DCRA, so I can't claim the additional $110, right ?

     So other than the paperwork hassles I've read from others, what would
     it *really* gain me to put the $50.00/wk into DCRA and try to get it
     back out again ???  Would it really make that much of a difference in
     my overall taxable income ?  I know, I know, ask my accountant, and
     I will this Saturday when I go have last year's tax return done, but
     wanted other opinions as well !!!

     thanks in advance,
     Debbi

    
    re: .10
    
    Not only do you save in Federal, you don't pay the state tax and
    SS tax on the money you put into your DCRA.  That can mean up to
    40% tax savings (on $2600, you save $1040 in taxes).  The other
    way, you save $480.
    
    Karen
    
    P.S... I'm no expert.  I'm still not sure I understand this completely
    myself.  

     
    re .10
    
    With the tax deduction route, you can't write off the entire $2400,
    you can only deduct a portion of the $2400, the portion varies with
    your income; the higher your income, the smaller the portion you
    can deduct. The DCRA route is good if you spend a lot on daycare and
    is in the higher tax brackets, the money taken out of your pay pretax
    may be big enough to drop your tax bracket. The only way to figure out 
    what is the better deal is to work out the taxes both ways. 
    
    
    Eva

    One more question then .... if I'm divorced, and I have 2 kids, can
    their father put in $96.00/wk for one, and me $96.00 for the other?
    And my 3rd son has a different dad, so could he put in the $96.00 for
    the third child??
    
    And .... if I pay $50.00/wk now for after-school care, but $100./wk
    during holidays, can I do something like put $60.00/wk (assuming that's
    what it worked out to) into DCRA, and then subtract the appropriate
    amounts of money at the appropriate times, or does it HAVE to be a set
    amount per week.
    
    Meaning, if, say I spend $1200.00/yr for daycare - do I have to use
    that at $100.00/mo, or could I use $200./mo for 4 mos and then $50/mo
    for 8 mos??
    
    THANKS for the help!!! (guess I should've asked all this in Nov!)
    
    Patty

    
    re: Patty...
    
    I think it all depends on who is claiming who as a dependent on
    your taxes.  If you and your present husband claim all 3 children
    as dependents, then you can only put in $96, not 3x$96.
    
    Karen

	Patty,

	You can withdraw the money as you use it - it does not
	have to be the same each week/month.

	You build up an account through your weekly contributions,
	then submit monthly claims for the care you used.

	For example, 

	Weekly contribution: $60 /week
	January contributions : $240
	January daycare: $200

	You'd get a check for $200, and carry a balance of $40

	Say, the next month you contribute another $240, but
	you needed extra care for the holiday week.

	Balance: $240 + 40 = $280
	February daycare = $300

	You'd get a check for $280.  John Hancock will also track the
	"unreimbursed" $20, and will reimburse it next month.

	Karen

	

    
    Can you sign up for DCRA at any time or only open enrollment? I just
    put my daughter in daycare ..is it too late?
    
    

> Can you sign up for DCRA at any time or only open enrollment? I just
> put my daughter in daycare ..is it too late?

Yes but it has to be within 30 days of a significant change. There are a set
of acceptable changes like spouse starting to work, divorce etc.


    

    The disability package I received from Unum said you have to do it
    within 30 days of the baby's birth.
    
                                   Alice

                     <<< Note 896.18 by SPESHR::JACOBSON >>>

    The disability package I received from Unum said you have to do it
    within 30 days of the baby's birth.
    
                                   Alice



   so if my family situation hasn't changed, when *can* I enroll in DCRA if my
   accountant tells me it's to my benefit ?????????

     re. 19
    
    >so if my family situation hasn't changed, when *can* I enroll in DCRA
    >if my accountant tells me it's to my benefit ?????????
    
    	At open enrollment time, around Nov/Dec.
    
    
    Eva

	Also, if you know you will be using daycare, sign up
	as early as possible.

	My husband signed up for DCRA just a couple of days before
	the 30 days were up (after my son's birth).  We didn't need
	daycare for another month, so were able to build up a balance.
	If I'd been more on top of things, I'd have had him sign up
	right away.

	Kren

    
    So if the baby's father was recently re-employed (after being laid off
    from DEC last fall), that's enough reason to allow me to sign up now?!
    
    Thanks,
    Patty

    I received my Jan. reimbursement check on Friday and much to my
    amazement, it was for $450.  I submitted reciepts for the 4 full weeks
    in January and was expecting a check for $384 (96x4weeks).
    
    Does anyone have ideas on why they reimbursed me for almost 5 full
    weeks?  Seems like such a stupid question to be asking.  Like I said, I
    only had receipts for the weeks ending 1/6 through 1/27.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joolz
    

	You must have had a balance in your account.

	You are only allowed to contribute $96 a week, but 
	you get reimbursed for as much as possible depending
	upon your balance ON THE DAY THEY PROCESS your claim.

	We started contributing last April, but didn't start using
	daycare until late May.

	So, the first claim we put in, we got reimbursed for the
	entire amount of our claim, $800.

	Karen

    Well, it makes alittle more sense to me now -- seeing that the check
    was cut on the 9th - a day short of 6 full weeks past and I had 6 weeks
    of deposits.  After the check was cut, I still had a balance of $30.
    
    Thanks for clearing that up
    

    Actually, part of what happens is that even though Digital takes out
    the money on Thursday it doesn't get posted to John Hancock until the
    Sunday after (I found this out after getting a check that I thought was
    short).  So, if the last Sunday of the month doesn't fall within that
    month your last Thursdays contribution will go into the following
    month.
    
    Ex:  The last deduction for Jan was the 26th and was credited on the
    29th.  But in March, the last deduction will be on the 30th with the
    following Sunday being April 2nd so that weeks deduction will fall into
    April's credits.
    
    /Susan

    Has anyone had a problem with their deduction being taken from their
    paycheck but not showing up in the DCRA ?  We seem to have that
    situation and I'm having a lot of trouble getting it resolved.
    
    I took a 3 week leave of abscence last fall to extend my maternity
    leave.  When I returned from the loa the right paperwork was not
    submitted to return me to active status, so there was a delay in
    getting my first paycheck.  I'm not sure if any of that contributed to
    the problem or not.  The situation I have now is that my husband, who
    handles all the DCRA paperwork, says there is $96 less than there should
    be in account. 
    
    Unfortunately, I do not have my paystubs from that time period so I
    can't easily see what was deducted when.  I have called the JH number
    several times and they keep giving me a balence that is $96 less than
    what my husband says.  When I tried to get specifics from them on what
    was deposited when, I kept getting different ansswers.  
    
    I tried going to Digital payroll and asked for a record of what
    deductions were made on what dates.  They came back with a reply saying
    I had been on loa for 2 weeks during that period.  This is wrong, 
    the loa was 3 weeks, it also has nothing to do with what I asked for
    which is a statement of deductions.
    
    If I could just get Digital payroll to give me a statement of
    deductions for Sep-Dec '94 and get JH to give me a statment of deposits
    for that same period we could figure it out pretty guick. 
    Unfortunately neither side seems willing (or able) to cooperate.
    
    Any suggestions ?
    
    Denise
    
                                                                      
    

    
    re: -1
    
    I don't know if this is related or not....
    
    At the end of the year, I got a form from DCRA (John Hancock) saying
    how much they had disbursed to me over the course of the year.  I
    also got my W-2 from DEC saying how much I had contributed.  Well, the
    amount differed by $288 (3*96).  This is because I got me check in
    January for decembers care.  FWIW, you should use the amount on the 
    W-2 (w-4... I can never remember) in box 10 when filing your taxes.
    
    Karen

    Hope someone can help me with this one....
    
    	My second child was born the end of last year and was not in
    daycare, nor did I claim any Daycare Reimubrsement  for him.  I did
    claim DCRA for my older son.   The question I have is can I take the
    tax credit for the newborn and not for the older son?
    
    Is anyone else in this position...  This year, I am only submitting
    receipts for my older sons care and not for the younger (it would be
    over the 96.00 week deduction).  So, can I again next year get the tax
    credit for the younger?
    
    thanks for any help on this.
    alice

    Is there a contact and/or phone number to inquire to regarding the
    DCRA.  I have yet to receive my reimbursement for February expenses
    from them.
    
    

    
    I expect that you probably mailed it too late.  If they don't recieve
    it by the last day of the month, you won't get a check.  I've managed
    to do that twice this year alone!  Gotta get my act together.  
    
    Karen

    Yes, I just called and thats what they told me.  They have to receive
    it by the last day of the month if in order to receive it on time. 
    They cut the checks on the 10th of each month.
    
    So, I suppose I will have to submit 3 weeks of receipts in order to
    make the cut off.
    
    Well, its reassuring to know that my check is not lost in the mail.
    
    

    
    Just a few questions :
    
    My wife and I are expecting our second in a few months ...
    My wife works for another company with DCRA benifits as well.
    Our day care bill will $150/week for two.
    
    Can BOTH of us (who work for DIFFERENT companies) deduct $75 per week ?
    
    I called JH and they said as long as you don't both work for DEC.
    I don't understand why not but we don't anyways.  I would figure the
    IRS doesn't care since the excess amount over $96 would be deducted on
    our taxes.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    I don't see why you and your wife wouldn't be able to each contribute
    $75 toward the account.  But I believe you would then have to pay for one 
    of the kids and submit your receipts as would your wife pay for the other 
    and submit her receipts. 

I believe that the maximum amount (see IRS form 2441) you can use as employer
provided benefits is $5000.  This is independent of the number of employers
providing it.  You therefore get no advantage to contributing from multiple
employers.

I don't have it in front of me, but I believe the form allows you receive
benefits for the least of the following:

 - The income for the spouse with the smallest income
 - The amount you actually paid for day care
 - $5000

    
    re: .-1
    
    How the heck would they possibly know ?  If its on your w2's, I can
    see that being overlooked very easily!  The IRS has better scams
    ($$$'s) to catch than to be checking EVERY w2 form.
    
    JMHO

	There would be no problem this year, because even if you 
	started contributing next week, you'd still end up under the
	$5000 maximum.

	Next year, however, you'd end up going over the maximum, and
	having to pay taxes on the excess ($2800).  You're better off
	putting in no more than allowed.

	Karen

Re: .103

>>    How the heck would they possibly know ?

Don't ever get audited.

>>    The IRS has better scams
>>    ($$$'s) to catch than to be checking EVERY w2 form.

That's why they use computers.  Don't assume that the only way the IRS knows
about the information on your W2 is by actually having a person look at your
W2.

BTW, if you read some other notes in this string or some other string about the
DCRA, you'll find people who have not submitted form 2441, and the IRS has sent
them mail indicating that they owe taxes on the unused (as far as they could
tell) employer provided benefit amount.  (Fortunately, a late submission of
form 2441 usually settles the matter without much fuss.)  They DO check these
things.

						Brian

    
    
    	ALERT!  ALERT!
    
    	PLEASE READ THIS...
    
    	In the Benefits Express bulletin I got for october, on Page
    	4, it says, regarding reimbursement accounts, "contributions
    	to the acocunts cannot continue automatically from year to
    	year".
    
    	This means, if you are currently enrolled in DCRA you need
    	to enroll again for next year if you want it to continue.
    
    	I think this is new since last year since I don't recall 
    	having to do this last fall.
    
    	If I hadn't read this bulletin (and often I don't) I would
    	have never seen this!
    
    	So... for those of you who didn't read it, now you know!
    
    	Karen
    

    I've used the DCRA and HCRA benefits for at least 3 years, and have had
    to re-enroll each year.  I think it is a federal tax law requirement.
    
    One change this year is that you can no longer discontinue the HCRA
    benefits if you find you forecasted too high.
    
    judy

    
    	Well, then I guess I must have done so last year as well.  
    
    	But this note will hopefully remind everyone that they have to
    	do this!
    
    	Karen
    

    Does anyone know if they have increased the amount you can deduct for
    the DCRA account is it remaining the same.?
    
                    Alice

    
    Has anyone had problems with getting their DCRA checks lately?  For
    some reason it seems as though I have missed getting my checks about
    3 or 4 months this year.
    
    Two of the times they said they didn't receive the claim form until
    after the cut off date (the last working day of the month) and twice
    I had outstanding balances from the prior month that they "forgot" to
    send out to me, so I didn't receive the check until I called them and
    they made a special exception to cut a check for the one they forgot,
    which was about a week to a week and a half after I should have
    received it.  
    
    It also seems strange to me that it took a week for my claim to make it
    to braintree when I mailed it at the post office.
    
    Anyone else seeing this?
    
    Sue

I had trouble back in August (I think?).
When I didn't receive the check, I called.
They claimed that I hadn't sent in my claim on time.
This was quite possible, however, I had so much owed
to me that they didn't need any claim to cut a check.
They made a little noise about "seeing what they
could do", and I received a check shortly thereafter.

So, yes, I've seen the problem, but it only happend
once (to me) and they made good on their mistake.

I certainly would *not* expect it to take a week if
I mailed it directly from *any* post office.
Good luck!

It does pay to watch them like a hawk :-)

- Deb B.

    
    
    I sent a complaint to the guy in US benefits, Paul Cornelius at
    POWDML::CORNELIUS about my experience.  If you have a complaint
    or the same thing happened to you, can you forward some mail to
    him?  I really am getting suspicious.
    
    

    
    
    I am considering signing up for a DCRA for next year.  By the notes in 
    here, I assume that you send in receipts by the month, but they must
    be in by the last working day of the month to be processed timely...
    I just glanced at January 96, the last day of the month is a Wednesday,
    would I have to request a receipt from my day care in advance of the
    last day?
    
    I pay every friday, and she is salary except for her sick days though
    I am not convinced she would give me a receipt in advance.  
    
    How exactly does this reimbursement work?
    
    thanks
    Beth

    
    re: receipts...
    
    Although I don't do this, one of my co-workers (and we have the
    same provider too), creates her own reciepts using a spreadsheet
    application.  She has never had a problem with DCRA and it saves
    her from having to get one from our daycare provider.  
    
    For myself, I only submit as many reciepts as will cover the $5K
    I contribute.  That means I only send in reciepts until September.
    
    Karen

    
    	I haven't had a single problem this year in receiving my checks.
    	JH is still paying out from the last claim I sent in, which
    	was several months ago, so I have not had to worry about them
    	receiving my claim in time.
    
    	Beth,  there's nothing to be hesitant about.  In order to send
    	your claim in on time, send it for the first 4 weeks (for next
    	year, mail your first claim on 1/26 or a day sooner), then include
    	the rest of the month on your next claim.  
    
    	Karen
    

    
    re: a few back (receipts thru September)
    
    I need a clarification.
    
    Are you saying that you stop submitting receipts in September even
    though you continue your max. contributions thru December? This implies
    that you can 'pre-bill' your DCRA account...in other words, submit more
    receipts than what is in your account at the time, and let Hancock
    continue to cut checks against your 'balance' as the funds arrive.
    
    Is this how the system is supposed to work? We've been holding back our 
    (monthly) receipts until there is sufficient balance in the account to 
    cover them (i.e. our monthly bill was approx $1100, while our contibutions 
    are approx $400/mo), which means that I don't submit the January bill 
    until March, the Feb bill until June, and so on. gets to be a real drag 
    trying to keep track of the balance and burns me up to let them play the 
    'float' with my money.
    
    If what I'm interpreting from your note is true, this means I can
    submit the monthly bills right away during the first 5 months, not
    worry about subsequent receipts, and let *them* worry about tracking 
    the balance. In essence, they'd be spitting me out a check at the end
    of each month equal to the amount I contributed that month. If so, that
    would be fantastic, as we would eliminate this 3-month 'float' that we
    give them now. 
    
    Please help clarify this for me. Thanks...
    
    Freddie

  

  My weekly costs have always exceeded the weekly max contribution.  I have
never had a problem with only submitting receipts until I hit the $5000 max.
I continue to receive a monthly check.

Elizabeth

    
    re: .116
    
    You read me right!  
    
    Karen
    

    re: .118
    
    Karen,
    
    thanks...that'll save us a lot of hassle.
    

>>    For myself, I only submit as many reciepts as will cover the $5K
>>    I contribute.  That means I only send in reciepts until September.

We do the same thing; we're done by May (sigh...).

						Brian

Has anybody been able to sign up for DCRA for next year via the phone-mail menu
system?

I couldn't find it in the auditory maze, so I ended up talking to a
representative.  After hearing the questions she asked me and thinking about it
(she never *did* tell me where I was supposed to find it), I have a suspicion
that it was buried somewhere in the health care sign-up menu, which I didn't
traverse because I did not intend to change anything regarding my health care
choices.  Is it there?  That's counter-intuitive, at least to me, but perhaps
they lump it in with HCRA and lump HCRA in with health care.

						Brian

    Yup, it's buried in the healthcare stuff.  You have to read the mail
    that BE sent out to find this out.  I think it was option 4 under
    healthcare.
    
    /Susan

    re: discontinuing DCRA deduction before end of calendar year.
    
    I know you can do this now. I did it last year. The new benefits
    bulletin says clearly that you cannot do this for *HCRA* in 1996.
    
    Does this rule (discontinuation mid-year) apply to DCRA in 1996?
    
    thanks

    yes, it does.
    
    unless you have a 'family status change' -- the same sort that allows
    you to make any other change outside of the open enrollment period.
    
    however, don't take my word for it. call the 800 number. [please] 
    
      Annie

    I just signed up for the dependent care reimbursement account.  My 
    question is:  if I spend more, over the course of 1996, than I
    had withdrawn from my pay, can I deduct the balance on my income
    tax return (form 2441), or am I only allowed one or the other?
    Seems to me I recall reading that I can only file form 2441 if I
    do NOT enroll in a reimbursement program.
    
    Anyone know for sure?  I was going to call the IRS, but they're
    not working!
    
    Thanks.
    

The usual caveats (I'm not a tax attorney or accountant, etc.) ...

>>    question is:  if I spend more, over the course of 1996, than I
>>    had withdrawn from my pay, can I deduct the balance on my income
>>    tax return (form 2441), or am I only allowed one or the other?

You are limited to $2400 for one child, $4800 for two or more children, on form
2441.  The amount you get reimbursed for via the DCRA gets subtracted from that
amount.

Examples (assuming two kids, and assuming all DCRA funds are used):

DCRA                           0 1000 1000 4000 5000
Maximum deduction           4800 3800 3800  800    0
Expenses                    2000 3000 5000 5000 6000
  Excess over DCRA funds    2000 2000 4000 1000 1000
Deduction on form 2441      2000 2000 3800  800    0
           
The last case (DCRA maximum, no deduction left) seems to be fairly common; it's
always been the case for us.  However, you still MUST fill in a form 2441 to
verify to the IRS that you did have expenses covering the DCRA funds.

						Brian

    I just enrolled in the DCRA program for 1996 and have 2 questions...
    
    First of all do you just send in reciepts that either you or
    your daycare provider makes up?  And second how long does it
    take to get your check once you mail in the form and reciepts?
    
    I have done the HCRA program in the past and just sent in the
    reciepts from the Dr, or Drug store and it took about 3-4
    weeks to get my check.  Does this work pretty much the same way?
    
    Thanks...Deb
    

    I am in the HCRA. My understanding is that John Hancock needs to have
    receipts for a given month by the last day of that month and they cut
    the reimbursement check on or about the 9th of the following month.
    
    

The last noter is correct.  They need them IN THEIR SYSTEM by the last of the month 
(meaning you need to get them in 2-3 days before that).  They cut checks on the
9th of the month and mail them on the 15th.  You get the check by about the 20th.

As for the receipt, it is supposed to be from the daycare provider.  Also, on the 
submission form you must include the provider's tax id number.  For a daycare center,
they should be able to provide this.  For an individual, it is their social security
number.  This is a requirement of the IRS so they can be sure the provider is claiming
the income.

Irene

    Thanks for the info....now I have another question.  I seem to be
    getting conflicting info on the "pre-bill" process.  I read in 
    this file that folks have sent in thier reciepts for whatever 
    thier cost were for the month (ie; $600) and even though there
    was only $384 in thier account from thier weekly deductions they
    still got a check for $600 untill all the money was use...
    (ie; $96 x 52wks  $4992).  However I have tlked to others who 
    told me they were never able to get a check for more than what
    was in thier account.  And I just called the Digital/John HAncock
    people and they told me the same thing...that they will only send
    you a check for the amount that is in your account.  So does anyone
    have experience with either one?  Maybe the rules just changed
    this year....if so yucko!
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Deb

    I think you may be confusing the HCRA with the DCRA accounts.
    
    For DCRA, you only get what you have in the account--they hold on
    to your receipts to the next month and reimburse you has the account
    fills up.
    
    For HCRA, you can get the whole amount.  Your account is filled (I
    think) with the total amount that you will have put in at the end of
    the year.  You can draw from it at any time.
    
    DCRA is for Day Care, HCRA is for health care, covering items
    not covered by your insurance, like eye glasses, prescriptions, even
    co-pays.
    
    Hope this clarifies it for you.
    
    Diana

I don't believe this has changed, but the health care reimbursement
has different behavior from the dependendent care reimbursement
and maybe this is where the confusion lies. 

I submit my receipts as I get them until I've submitted the full
$4992.  But my *dependendent care* reimbursement checks only
reimburse me for the amount currently in my account.  So I'm done
submitting dependent care receipts around June or so, but I get my 
last DCRA reimbursement in January of the following year.

Now, the health care is a different story, but you weren't asking
about that :-) 

Hope this helps!

- Deb B.

    
    	I got a little surprise this month.  I didn't submit reciepts
    	for December because I knew I had about $500 in unclaimed
    	reciepts.  Well, I didn't get a check.
    
    	I called this AM and they told me, oops... we should have
    	cut a check but didn't.  We'll get one to you right away...
    
    	Anyhow, I always thought that if you had advance reciepts
    	(ie submitted reciepts in excess of what was in your account)
    	that you could skip sending reciepts some months.  And usually
    	you can, but for some reason, it didn't work this month.
    	I think I'll make a practice of calling when I don't send
    	receipts to make sure they are awake over there!
    
    	Karen
    
    

Thanks for the message Karen!  It made me realize that I had not received
a check this month either.  Sure enough, when I called they had missed
me this month and last even though they had about $4000 of receipts 
outstanding.  So, the morale of the story is, if you've not received your
check by now, I'd call.  Seems they what you saw was more than just an 
isolated case.

Irene

    
    	I think they must have had a major problem in December.
    	I haven't gotten my check yet, either.  Time to make
    	a call!
    
    

    
    
    Quick question:
    
    Can one deduct child care expenses over 96/week on MASS tax form ?
    I don't see it anywhere so I assume you can't.
    
    I know you can deduct the above on the Federal forms.
    

RE:
I know you can deduct the above on the Federal forms.

How do you go about doing this?  I've looked at it the last
couple of years and it always seems to get cancelled out (during
one of the add/subtract/etc. it gets set to 0).

Thanks,

Irene

Standard caveat (I am not a tax advisor, nor do I play one on TV)...

>>    Can one deduct child care expenses over 96/week on MASS tax form ?
>>    I don't see it anywhere so I assume you can't.
>>    
>>    I know you can deduct the above on the Federal forms.

As I understand it, this is backwards.  You cannot deduct the excess (I assume
you mean over the max DCRA contribution) on the Federal form, but you can on
the Massachusetts form.

For the Federal form, you must subtract from the max deduction ($4800 with two
kids) each dollar that get reimbursed from a DCRA.  That is, you don't just
subtract the reimbursed amount from your costs, you subtract it from the
applicable deduction.  For example, if your costs are $5000, and you get $1000
reimbursed from a DCRA, you can deduct $3800.  The worksheet instructions are
quite clear about this.  The specific spot is form 2441 lines 22-24, where the
benefit amount is subtracted from the allowable deduction amount.

For the Massachusetts form, the instructions for line 12 state specifically
that, unlike the Federal form, you do not need to take employer-provided
daycare benefits into account when calculating the dependent care deduction
amount.  Again, the worksheet instructions are pretty clear: you use Federal
form 2441 line 14 (qualified expenses, prior to subtracting employer-provided
benefits) as the dependent care cost amount, and there is no place where they
request the employer-provided benefit amount.

FYI, these forms and the instructions are available online, via:

  Federal	http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/
  Mass.		http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/dor/dorpg.htm

Hope this helps.

						Brian

Ok - that makes sense.  I think what I've been hitting is
that you can't use but the $4800.  I pay the max ($96/wk) 
into DCRA.  That comes out to be $4992.  So, 4800 less
4992 is a negative number and thus, as far as taxes are 
concerned, 0.

I've just heard people talking about deducting the amounts
not covered by DCRA from their taxes and thought I was 
being extremely dumb about something.

Thanks,

Irene

    
    
    Would someone post a note here when they receive their first DCRA 
    check for 1996? 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Beth

    Beth,
    
    I received my first check in yesterday's mail.  I live in Littleton,
    Massachusetts.
    
    Julie

    
    
    Thanks Julie, it seems like so long to wait for the first time.
    I'm hoping mine is waiting for me today!!
    
    
    beth

    I got mine yesterday as well.
    
    kathy

    Is anyone else having the following problem?  This is the first year
    that I've signed up for the DCRA.  According to John Hancock.. I can
    only claim daycare beginning 1/1/96 however, my weekly deductions 
    started the week before that, week ending 12/30/95?  Why can't I claim
    that week and how do I get my $$ back??
    
    thanks!
    - Gini
    
    

    It depends on how much you pay for day care.  If you pay more than
    $96/week and have $96/week taken from your weekly pay then eventually,
    throughout the year you will gain back a few dollars at a time.  Your
    other alternative is to end your deductions sometime prior to the end
    of the calendar year.  I was going to have a remaining balance my first
    year, so I changed my deductions in November and they ended about the
    first part of December.  Granted, I didn't get the tax deduction, but I
    did get all of my money back.

    
    
    My deduction is 'only' $87 a week, so I assumed I would come out
    even at the end of each month.
    
    So.. if I stopped my deductions early, and I still had a balance, I could
    continue to make claims the rest of the year?  Can you cancel the plan 
    at any time?  
    
    
    
    
    

    You can submit receipts for 1996 expenses for childcare until March of
    1997.  Tha would eat up any balance you had.  I take the maximum of
    $96/wk and pay $123/wk childcare, so using up the balance is not a
    problem this year.  I believe you can quite deductions at any time
    through the year, but I would recommend contacting John Hancock.

    I have recently put my daughter in a daycare environment.  Could I sign
    up for DCRA now or do I have to wait until the next enrollment period?
    Who would I contact.
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy

    I believe that unless you had a change in your family (death, birth, or
    layoff), you can only sign up in November for the upcoming year.
    
    I may be wrong about this, since I'm going on memory here.
    
    judy

    Contact the People Support Network at 1-800-544-9944.  They can tell
    you if your family's change qualifies as an enrollment option.  We were
    able to join mid year because we told them that my husband was caring
    for our child and hiw shift changed.  We had to put her into daycare
    because he was no longer available.
    
    

Somebody has probably run into this before, I'll call the People Support
Network but I'm also looking for some ideas as to the best way to handle
my DCRA while I'm out on maternity leave (is there even more than one option?)

I currently have the max ($96) taken out of my check for DCRA.  I plan to be
out on maternity leave the last few months of the year.  The first 6 weeks
(or 8 weeks if we have to do another c-section) will be paid and I'm not
concerned about that.  But I will be taking the next 12 weeks unpaid under
the FMLA.  

Now, what can I do about continuing to pay the $96 per week for DCRA while
I'm out on unpaid leave? My husband also works at DEC, is it possible to 
have him start paying the $96 per week when I stop paying it?  I'm assuming 
that as long as we only contribute the yearly max of $5000, it shouldn't
matter whether it's me or my husband who actually pays it?  I'm also assuming 
that a new baby in the family will qualify as an appropriate "family change" 
and my husband will be able to start the DCRA payments even though it's not 
during the "open enrollment".

Has anyone else run into this?  How did you handle it?

Thanks!
Jean

    

    When I was out on unpaid leave (5 years ago), I pre-paid medical 
    insurance, etc - it was arranged through Human Resources.
    
    Be careful about DCRA though, I believe there is some requirement
    that both of you be working or full-time student in order to
    qualify - check the rules.  Not a problem when you are on medical
    leave, but unpaid leave may be a different story.
    
    Janice

    I was under *exactly* the same situation in 1994 when I had my second
    child.
    
    Once the child is born, have your deduction stopped and have your
    husband start it.  Because you have a change in family situation (the
    birth), this is allowed.
    
    You are not allowed to apply for the DCRA funds while on your unpaid
    leave.  You can on your STD, however.
    
    I was concerned about it, but it all worked out. 
    
    The only other thing you need to be sure of is that the receipt from
    your daycare provider is under the correct name of the person with the
    DCRA account.
    
    Good luck!
    
    judy

>>    The only other thing you need to be sure of is that the receipt from
>>    your daycare provider is under the correct name of the person with the
>>    DCRA account.

I never heard of this being an issue.  A former daycare provider used to give a
receipt with the name of whoever wrote the check, either me or my wife.  I
never had any problems getting reimbursement.  (And our last names are
different, too.)

						Brian

    Maybe that was me just being compulsive.  ;-)
    
    We have different names and I find that many people just can't cope too
    well with this.
    
    judy

    
    I seem to be having a problem getting my claim in..I keep mailing
    
    them (I checked that I have correct envelope) and they keep telling
    
    me that they do not have it...I am really getting angry. I am
    
    probably going to Fed ex so I can prove it got there.
    

    I'm in the queue to talk to John Hancock but I thought I'd ask my
    question here too.
    
    I just got the DCRA reimbursment account statement covering 
    1/1/96-7/9/96.  It lists zero on the Charges Pending line even though
    I submitted claims on 6/25 that have not been paid.  Would these
    claims show up on the charges pending line or is that used for
    claims that you have filed that are waiting for your current
    balance to rise above zero?

    I always go by the PF and PI codes.  One is for money already paid and
    the other for current expenses awaiting funds in the account.  I don't
    remember which is which, but there is a legend on the check stub that
    explains it.
    
    Irene
    

Can 2 divorced Digital employees each deduct the max DCRA
for one child if they have joint physical custody and 
share the expense of daycare?

Fear not, I do plan to ask personnel and professionals,
but I thought I might get a quicker (though potentially 
inaccurate) response in here -- kind of like a litmus 
test :-)  

    
    Nope - the max is PER CHILD, not per employee .... at least that was
    what was explained to me!
    
    -Patty
    

    Has anyone who had DCRA for 1996 receive their first check for this year?
    I got mine on Friday and I am again suprised at the amount.  I contribute
    the maximum amount allowed (96/week) and the way I figure it, I should have
    received $384 as there were 4 pay dates between the last payout (1/9/97) 
    and this one (2/9/97).  Why would I be short a week if I submitted 
    expenses that exceed this amount?  Does Digital hold money for any 
    time between deducting it from pay and transferring it to John Hancock?

    I really would like to understand this process.  I am still trying to 
    work out a $288 shortage for the year before!

    thanks
    Beth
    

    While I can wholeheartedly support the fact that the DCRA account
    seems to have little predictability in terms of how much you
    get and when - I just got my first for 1997 and it had 4 weeks worth
    of payment.  Of course, I had a ton left over in 1996 and they may
    have applied some to that (I didn't look at the details) - but I did
    submit exactly 4 weeks worth of daycare reciepts on about 1/20 - so
    it should have made it in....
    
    andy
    (a 7 year member of DCRA)
    

    When I called at one point to ask when expenses needed to be submitted
    I was told that the cutoff date is the 27th of the month.  My guess is
    that since 1/27 is on a Monday, they probably only counted the first 3
    weeks of the month as what you could claim to date for 1997.
    
    /Karen

-.1 sounds right.  My cheque covered only 3 week payments..

--Chaya.

    Does anyone have the new address to send the DCRA reciepts to?  I
    recieved the notice in the mail last week and can't put my hands on it
    right now.  I think it was in TX.
    

I called 800-DEC-2060 and was told to send claims to:

Digital Claims Service Center
PO Box 833947
Richardson TX 75083

    Thanks so Much!

>> I called 800-DEC-2060 and was told to send claims to:
>> 
>> Digital Claims Service Center
>> PO Box 833947
>> Richardson TX 75083

Great; I have a whole bunch of forms with the Braintree address on them
(post-paid envelope), and all the forms I could find in the usual ZKO forms bin
were for Braintree.  I'd guess they'll forward from Braintree as needed, but
I'll give them a call to make sure.  I'd hate to have to start bothering with
addressing my own envelopes.

						Brian

    Brian,
    
    The letter that was sent out stated that the Braintree post office
    would start forwarding to Texas in May.  In HLO, too, we only have the
    pre-paid envelopes for Braintree, I just made sure to send mine in
    extra early so it would have time to be forwarded.
    
    The letter also stated that they switched over in March.  Did anyone
    else get that "Gee, thanks for letting me know in May." feeling?
    
    /Susan

    
    I sent the March and April receipts in what should have been plenty of
    time to get to Braintree from NH and wondered why the check never
    showed up.  I now have my answer. 
    
    judy

	The notice sent in May said that the new mailing address
	was effective June 1, 1997, even though the transition
	occured in March.

	I mailed my May claim form to Braintree before
	I read the letter.  I hope it arrived in Texas
	in time!