Conference moira::parenting

    I just don't get it!
    
    How do you find babysitters?
    Once found how do you get to trusting them?
    Once found and trusted how do you get your toddler to like them?
    Once found, trusted and liked, what do you do to keep them,
    given that your only using them twice a month or so?
    
    These questions seem so insurmountable that for 2 years
    of parenthood my son has been with a sitter once
    (not counting family members and his daycare provider). 
    Also note:  I live in the boonies.  I don't know people in 
    my town.  Teenagers scare me (sorry, parents of teenagers!)  
    
    Ah, for a little freedom!
    -renee     
   

    My experience:
    
    The best way to find sitters is to ask a lot of people. Local
    colleges are excellent sources.
    
    The best way to keep a sitter you like is to pay him/her well 
    and treat him/her like a member of the family.
    
    The best way to help your child get used to a sitter is to take
    it slow if your child objects to being left. An experienced 
    sitter can help handle this sort of thing. A phone call back
    to the house 15 minutes after you leave will usually reveal that
    all is well. If not, wait another 15 minutes and call again. If
    things are not well, go home and try again the following week. 
    
    Good luck -- a sitter is cheaper than a marriage counselor,
    I always say!
    
    Lucy

    Do you get the newspaper delivered? Ask your news carrier (I did!).
    
    Find out where there might be a local Girl Scout troop.... or post a
    sign at your church, junior high/middle school, or in your community
    paper.
    

    If you don't want teenagers then you are severly limiting your choices.
    
    Is there a welcome wagon in your town?  If so, ask them.
    
    Chris D.

re: .1

>Teenagers scare me (sorry, parents of teenagers!)  

No need to apologize.  My daughter is almost a teenager (in fact sometimes she 
acts like she is) and they scare me too!  ;^)

Some suggestions:

	If your child is in daycare, ask if any of the daycare
	"teachers" babysit.  However, be aware that if they do,
	they are usually quite expensive.

	To get you (and your child) more comfortable with a 
	teenager, hire one to babysit your child while you
	are around (for example when you're prepareing to 
	entertain, you want to get somethings done around
	the house.  That gives you a chance to observe them,
	and gives your child a chance to become familiar 
	with them.

Clay

    
    I put a poster up at the high school by the guidance department.
    I got a couple of calls and could pretty much tell over the phone
    who I'd like to check out.  Then, i had the babysit on a Saturday
    afternoon while i was home doing chores.  
    
    /Vicky

    I do relate to the "I live in the Boonies" syndrome.  And here's a few
    things I did, mostly by just plain luck.
    
    The girl next door was in her last year or high school, she babysat for
    me until last year, and still would if I were in a real bind.  At this
    age, she's early 20's now (5 years later) and is engaged so if she
    wants her boyfriend to come, then fine-she's mature enough.  HE also
    brings his own bottle of diet coke even though I always left plenty in
    the fridge.  And they usually either study or bring a tape to play.
    
    When she felt she was too busy, she recommended the younger sister of
    one of her friends, who is a real gift to us.  well mannered,
    attentive, and neither girl eats much of anything.
    
    Some other methods were our friends had moved into town a year or so
    before us, I asked her who she used.  These never really panned out,
    though since most were *very* young teens "13ish", one fell so sound
    asleep that my kid was awakened by the banging befor she was. (age 13). 
    Another idea is community contacts.  We found several girls, high
    school teens acutally, through our church, the Rainbow girls, and since
    we were active on the ambulance squad we found several of the younger
    men had younger sisters (or daughters in one case) who would sit, or I
    simply asked some of the husband/wife teams (as we were) if they could
    recommend a sitter.
    
    Does this help you to feel that you're not alone out there??
    
    Lyn

    How much do you pay your sitters?  Do you pay more money if they watch
    2 children than if they watch one?
    
    We were lucky enough to find a High School Junior who will sit for us
    on Saturday, but she feels uncomfortable in quoting us a price.  We 
    hardly use babysitters, and haven't a clue what to pay her!
    
    Thanks for your advice.
    
    Donna
    

    
    The 14 year old daughter of my daughter's preschool teacher is
    available to babysit.  Our 4 year old has already met her and likes
    her.  We'd like to have her over one to meet the baby and to get to
    know her ourselves.  Anyone have suggestions on what to ask her
    about to get a good idea of what she's like as a babysitter?  
    
    I'm also curious about the going rate for sitters these days.  I've
    heard $3.00 an hour. Does that seem reasonable?  
    
    Thanks..  Marlene.
    

    Most of our babysitter's were kids we knew from one source or another. 
    For me it is how comfortable I feel with the sitter and how my kids and
    the sitter interact.  That is hwere the old gut feeling comes into
    play.
    
    I always left a note by the phone of phone numbers to use in an
    emergency and a brief description of our house (especially when we
    lived in an apartment - you know, white two story with porch - we are
    on the second floor, etc).  I was surprised one night to find my sitter
    didn't even know our address.
    
    I would also suggest asking what they would do in the case of a
    fire/emergency.  Inform them of a neighbor they can go to if a fire
    does break out, etc.
    
    I pay my sitter on average $3.00 an hour now that my kids are older and
    require less maintenance.  When they required diapers, baths, and had
    fussy bedtimes or screaming fits cause mommy was gone there was always
    a bonus for the sitter.  I have two kids (age 5 and 7).
    
    -sandy
    

    I pay $3.00 or more for our babysitter watching 2 kids; I paid less
    when she was only watching one.
    
    I'd ask if she's babysat before, for what age group etc. I'd also ask
    if she's taken a babysitting course offered by the Red Cross or Girl
    Scouts.  And, ask if you can speak to other parents she's sat for, if
    you want another perspective on her maturity level and abilities as a
    sitter.
    
    

    Is (just turned) 13 too young to babysit?
    
    The basis of this question is that our son's Godparents have a daughter
    who has always seemed mature and level thinking.  Her parents have given 
    her permission to babysit, but only AFTER she has completed a babysitting 
    course given by one of the local civic centers (library, red cross or 
    something like that).  This girl has a lot of characteristics, both 
    emotional and physical of the oldest girl on the Full House series on TV, 
    as well as an 11 year old sister much like the next oldest girl on 
    the series.
    
    I've always had sitters who are at least 15, but the one who used to be
    most available to me has turned into a sitter from H*LL!! very
    irresponsible.  
    
    Of course this friend's daughter would have to be picked up and brought
    home, but this is a minor inconvienience considering I think this one
    would be quite an improvement.
    
    Do we agree on $3. per hour, plus snacks?
    How late would be considered TOO late?  Although we're no night owls,
    we are usually home from most places before 11p.m. is this too late for
    a 13 year old?
    
    Lyn
    

    
    I think this really depends on the indivdual. My babysitter is 
    11 1/2.  She is excellent.  Her mother does daycare, so when 
    she comes home from school she is around little ones and 
    is very good with them.  
    
    She lives next door and someone is usually home when we go out.  
    
    She gives my son his dinner and bath.  When we get home
    the house is usually cleaner than when we left.  I think
    it's a great age because she is not into boys yet and 
    is eager to please.
    
    Since I am pregnant with #2 and my husband's job requires
    travel during the week, I have asked Nicole to be a 
    mother's helper.  She comes over 3 nights per week to
    help out with my 18 month old Ryan.  She usually comes
    by when we are finishing dinner and takes over Ryan
    for me.  She gives him his bath and gets him into his
    pajamas, while I pick up the house and clean the kitchen.
    Then we both play with him until his bedtime.  After he
    is in bed she picks up all his toys for me.  
    
    She has also asked for other odd jobs.  She says she loves to   
    clean house.   I pay her $20.00 for 12 hours and we live
    in Nashua.
    
    Jeanne
    

    I also think it really depends on the individual.  My
    babysitter is 13.  She is wonderful with my kids.  We usually
    drop the kids at her house.  And someone is usually home with
    her when she babysits.  I always make sure that she has someone
    to reach in an emergency.  I also lay out the rules and she
    is very good enforcing them.  We pay her $3 per hour.
    
    Wendy

My daughter is 12, and she does a lot of babysitting, and is (in my entirely 
unbiased opinion) excellent.  But as many notes have mentioned, every 
situation is different; both the prospective babysitter and the child have to 
be taken into consideration, such as how the child does with sitters, whether 
there is something unusual (such as if the child has any unusual medical 
conditions), and the like.

From my experience, once babysitters start to discover the opposite sex, it's 
damn difficult to FIND a babysitter in their mid to late teens.

My daughter has done babysitting as late as midnight, on weekends.  Once 
again, that depends on the individual.  If you feel comfortable with the 
babysitter, ask the babysitter how late they can work.

Clay

    I started babysitting 2 days before my 12th birthday.The kids were 2
    ,and 2 weeks old and my mom was just next door.I don't however recall
    needing her help(great kids...) but I do remember being told EXACTLY
    where the parents are going to and having phone numbers left "just
    incase" (don't remember ever having to use those numbers though)
    Now our babysitters (2 sisters) are "almost 13" and "almost 14" and
    they've been with us for almost a year.We usually leave after Yahli
    had gone to sleep,but if there's a day off from school as well as
    daycare-they take care of Yahli for the WHOLE day.We leave a phone No.
    if possible,and snacks,and video tapes.They stay till ~11.30pm during
    school days,and after midnight on weekends where they can nap if they
    are tired (they ALWAYS hear Yahli if she wakes up).They can also bring
    a friend and I KNOW there will NOT be wild parties.I trust them that
    much that I usually "round" up the money (30nd instead of 26ns,etc)-
    I say that those 4ns worth leaving the house knowing you can have fun
    without wondering what's going on "back there" (btw,6-7ns are the usual
    pay for a babysitter where we live).
    r/  

    
    I also began babysitting at around 12, this was on Long Island.  I
    never had problems and was certainly in demand.  In general I 
    think that younger sitters might be better.  From what I remember, 
    we were more willing to play with the kids the whole time when we 
    were younger (ie, not sit and watch TV) and as someone else 
    said, boys were not a factor.
    
    Amy

   Hmmm... with all the noise in the media lately about being sure to
   hire "legal" residents of the U.S, and all that, I have a question:
   
   I thought that I heard on the news the other day that I am legally
   responsible for paying Social Security withholdings for my babysitters
   *IF* I pay them more than a certain amount of money per quarter.  Is
   this true?  Do you know what that amount is?  I'm in MA if that makes
   a difference...
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom

    According to PrimeTime Live or one of those programs last night, they
    did a segment on hiring "legal" vs "illegal" in-home babysitters, you
    currently have to do the social security thing if you pay more than
    $50. per month to a sitter.  I think I heard them talking about a bill
    before the ?Congress that it would be upped to $250 per month.  I heard
    it was being dubbed the "Zoe Baird Bill", the program seemed to be
    saying it would pass easily.
    
    Good grief, if we make a weekly habit of going out, at least MY sitter
    stands to make in excess of $50 per month from us.  Glad we don't do
    THAT many nights per month, I can see me asking my teen sitter for her
    SS number, to report taxes!!  :-) !!
    
    Lyn

    
    If you pay *anybody* more than $50/quarter, you have to file forms.
    
    That includes babysitter, kids cutting lawns, cleaners, anybody. If
    the person is a business, and you're paying the business, then you
    don't need to do anything.
    
    And there is a lot of paperwork! SS taxes, workers comp, payroll taxes,
    FICA
    
    Simon

   And of course, as soon as you start reporting this money and paying
   withholdings on it, the IRS will expect the recipient to start
   claiming it as income... just what we need now, early teen and
   pre-teen kids filing tax returns for money earned while babysitting
   and shoveling snow.  
   
   And then what - if the 12yr old who shoveled my driveway doesn't claim
   it, they get audited?!  Egads!
   
   - Tom

   
>   And then what - if the 12yr old who shoveled my driveway doesn't claim
>   it, they get audited?!  Egads!
   
>   - Tom

    If the 12 year old brought his own shovel then he's considered self
    employed and it would be incumbent on him to file the necessary 
    returns, you'd be in the clear. Seriously.

   OK, lets see if I get this...
   
   o If I pay anybody more than $50 per month for services rendered, then
     I am responsible for paying SS withholdings for that person.  This
     may also include other paperwork - FICA, workman's comp, etc.
   
     This is not my problem IF the service provider is self employed.  
   
   [ So... how does one go about determining if a babysitter, for
     example, is self employed? ]
   
   [ What other paperwork is involved? ]
   
   [ Is this for *any* services rendered - ie, lawn/yard work, household
     cleaning, babysitting, cleaning out my garage, cutting my kids' hair
     at a chair in my kitchen, making a cake for a party, etc? ]
   
   o The service provider, regardless of age, is responsible for filing
     a tax return to claim their income.  Whether they actually pay
     taxes on it or not is up to current tax laws.
   
   [ Is the 'regardless of age' part right?  So now when my kids are old
     enough to babysit, they need to file tax returns to claim their
     income? ]

   [ What responsiblity do parents have in making sure that this
     paperwork is filed?  Are they liable if it does not happen? ]
   
   Hmmm... and I thought "they" werw supposed to be making the tax laws
     simpler....
   
   - Tom

    
    I think the point here is that the threshold for being an employer is
    way too low. ExPrez Bush vetoed the tax plan that last year would have
    raised it. The limit will be raise to $250 if this years tax bill goes
    through. $250 is a lot more realistic.
    
    Simon

>   [ So... how does one go about determining if a babysitter, for
>     example, is self employed? ]

Part of the criteria is if that person actively seeks jobs
elsewhere.  If they are dedicated to you as their only source
of income, then you employ them.  If they babysit for other people
then they are self-employed.

.........................beth

>   o If I pay anybody more than $50 per month for services rendered, then
>     I am responsible for paying SS withholdings for that person.  This
>     may also include other paperwork - FICA, workman's comp, etc.

Well, it's if you pay somebody more than *$50 per quarter*, not per month.
The forms that I'm aware of are:  the quarterly one (942?) which lists
social security, medicare and income tax withholdings; FUTA (Fed'l Unemployment
Tax A?), and a W-2 which you give your employee by Jan. 31 of the following
year.  NH doesn't require any state forms on household employees (at least,
none that I know of!), but state laws vary...

And, yes, this is a ridiculously low amount to have to worry about withholding
FICA, etc.

Determining whether the service provider is self-employed:
   If they provide their own equipment or tools, determine their own hours,
   do their job "unsupervised", then they're self-employed
   (like someone who shovels your driveway with their shovel when they get to 
   it.)

   If they're babysitting, you're an employer:  you set the hours, you
   supervise the employee giving explicit directions about what needs to
   be done and how it should be done.  Unless it's a nanny employed by
   an agency where the agency pays the nanny and you pay the agency.
   (Note that this is different than a placement fee.)

   If you really need to know, there's a publication which lists a bunch
   of criteria that the IRS uses to evaluate whether a service provider is
   an employee or not.  It's a gray area -- not always clear what the answer
   is.  I don't know the number of the publication off the top of my head, but 
   if somebody really needs it, ask -- I've got all the stuff on this since I 
   just hired a nanny in December '92 and I'm doing it all by the book.

BTW, I'm no CPA, so this is all a layperson's interpretation.  Standard caveats
apply!

    My NH neighbor was telling me she just recenly found out she has to pay
    her in-home care sitter's taxes.  So to the previous reply - even NH
    has to pay!
    
    -sandy
    

re: .27 

>    My NH neighbor was telling me she just recenly found out she has to pay
>    her in-home care sitter's taxes.  So to the previous reply - even NH
>    has to pay!

As far as I know, NH has no state income tax (except for a tax on interest
and capital gains income above some specific amount).  But if you question your
NH neighbor and discover otherwise, please inform us!

	We've hired our first sitter for Saturday night.

	I started babysitting when I was 12, so I'm no stranger
	to the business, except for one thing.

	Our sitter lives approximately 15 minutes from our home.

	I'll be picking her up about 45 minutes before we have to leave
	for our event, so that Emily can get comfortable with her and
	I can discuss relevant matters.

	Should I pay her from the time I pick her up until the time she
	gets home, or only for the hours that she is actually watching
	Emily ?  I figure it'll come out to an extra hour.

	Karen

    
    	I personally would pay her from the time you pick her up till the
    	time you take her home. 
    
    	Just my opinion.
    
    	Chris
    

    karen,
    
    Since you a taking up her time, I would start paying her from when you
    pick her up, it is what is fair, and will keep you in babysitter's, as
    when she is busy, whe won't hesitate to recommend friends to you.
    
    Meg

Is it customary to both pick up and drop off a young, non-driving sitter?
Is it reasonable to ask them to have their parent drop them off?
I expect to be responsible for taking them home, but am not sure
about getting them to our home.

I imagine this is negotiated on a case-by-case basis, but I wondered what
the norm is.

Having been on both ends of this (no, I don't babysit, but my 12 year old 
daughter does), I'd say:

	-  the parents of the kid being babysat provide the transportation
	   both ways

	-  pay is "portal to portal"

Clay

    Agree with .34
    
    JR

    Also I am in agreement.  You aren't employing your sitter's parents,
    you are employing your sitter.  
    
    Meg

    I agree with Chris, I think you should pay from the time you pick her
    up....
    

    
    I think it's unanimous! - Definitely pay her for her time
    door-to-door...it's only a couple dollars, right?   
    
    cj/
    
    p.s. karen, i would have sit her for free!!!

	When to pay - The way we work it is, as others have said, from
	the time the sitter arrives to the time he (in our case, it's
	a boy) is gone again.  If I can, I usually have Andy arrive
	15 minutes to 1/2 hour before I have to leave anyway, even tho'
	he knows Matt and the routine by now, just so I have those last
	few minutes to myself to finish getting ready and have a little
	time to review the "rules of the evening" if there are changes
	from the usual routine.

	Pick up & return - If I'm really in a bind, I've asked the parents
	if it's possible for them to drop Andy off; however, I'd never
	ask them to come pick him up again late at night, except in the
	case of an emergency (e.g., if my son became ill while I was gone).

	Just my $.02
	Debbi
 

	Thanks everyone, that's what I thought, I just wanted to
	see what other folks were doing.

	We ended up cancelling anyway, due to the storm.

	(80 out of 130 people *did* go to the wedding, however.  "State
	of Emergency" didn't seem to deter many people...)

This seems as good a place to ask as anyplace.

I am expecting my second child within the next few weeks, and plan to hire 
a 12-yr-old neigbor as a mother's helper for the summer.  Shanon (the 12-yr-old)
is very responsible and reliable and my 3-yr-old adores her.  But Shanon has
led an extremely sheltered life and I don't think she would have the foggiest
clue what to do in an emergency.  So - although I expect she will be a great
helper - I doubt I will feel comfortable leaving her alone with the kids
in a traditional babysitting role until she gets more experience.

Given my expectations, I have the following questions:

    - What is the going rate for a mother's helper?  Babysitting rates for
      in our neigborhood run high - around $3.40 - $4.00 per hour.  Would 
      I pay a mothers helper the same, or something less?

    - For those of you who have hired a mother's helper - what sort of tasks
      to you ask them to help with?  occupying the older child?  helping with
      the baby?  household tasks like preparing dinner?

    - What sort of hours work out best.  On one hand, I could really use an
      extra hand during the bewitching hours (4:00 - 6:00) every afternoon.
      ON the other hand - this seems a bit unfair to the helper who woudn't
      be able to take day trips to the beach or whatever because she would 
      always have to be back tomy house by 4:00.

Any advice and suggestions would be welcome.

- Carol

    Maybe you could try "war-gaming" various emergencies with Shannon?
    First you'd tell her the order of things to do, then you'd give her
    a written list, finally you'd pretend an emergency and walk her
    through it (e.g. "The baby fell down and it's mouth is bleeding a
    little.  What do you do first?  And then?...").
    
    		-John Bishop

    I agree with John's suggestion of teaching her has you go.  Since she
    would be in the house WITH you, I would probably pay her on the line of
    $2.00 an hour or whatever half the going rate for unassisted care is.  
    
    You could ask for her one or two full days a week (to allow you time to 
    do things around the house) in addition to a few partial days a week.  
    If you are concerned about taking all her time, work it out that each 
    week you set the schedule before the week begins so each of you knows 
    what to expect that coming week.
    
    This could also be helpful to her for the future when you might need a 
    new "regular" sitter. 
    
    -sandy
    

Most hospitals have Babysitting courses that can be taken.  I think
they are inexpensive if not free....Might be worth looking into for your
piece of mind...

    The babysitting course at our local hospital (in Milford, MA)
    is twice/week for 7 sessions.  The cost is $30.  
    
    		Linda

Thanks for the responses so far.  A babysitting course is a good idea.  And
I definitely plan to train her as we go along.  I will have to play it by 
ear to see when she is ready to be left alone with the kids.

But since I don't yet have any great need for a babysitter (there are other
options available to me if I need a more experienced babysitter in the short
term) I am quite satisfied to hire Shannon as a mother's helper for now for
two reasons:

	1) Finances. Since I expect to pay Shannon less than a babysitter, I
	   will be able to afford help more hours in a week

	2) I like the idea of watching how my babysitter-in-training interacts
	   with the kids for a while before leaving her on her own.


Has anybody had any experience with mother's helpers?  Either hiring one, or
working as one when they were younger?  In addition to the feedback I have
recieved already - I am mostly interested in hearing what would be reasonable
pay and expectations.

Thanks again.

- Carol

    I have used a mother's helper in the past and paid her $2.00 an hour.
    She will be a future babysitter for my daughter, Lauren, so they are
    getting a chance to know one another.
    
    The mothers helper watched Lauren so that I could do household chores,
    bills or work out in the yard.  So she fed, changed and entertained
    the baby.  We also had to clean-up a rental home and brought the
    mother's helper with us to watch Lauren so we could get more work done. 
    My experience with the two I have used is: they are great!  They love
    getting to "babysit" and are eager to learn.  You may have to show them
    how to change a diaper or hold the bottle but we all started somewhere.

    I used to be a mother's helper for a woman who had a toddler and had
    just had a C-section and needed another pair of hands.  I did all the
    things that a babysitter does plus laundry and dishes.  I had already
    done babysitting, so I was "experienced" and I believe I received the
    same pay as I did for evening babysitting jobs.  
    
    I can understand your paying someone less if they are inexperienced,
    but if it comes down to the responsibilities being the same, you might
    want to consider giving them a raise when they reach the level of
    expertise you would expect from a babysitter.  Just paying less because
    you're home doesn't seem fair if you're asking them to work just as
    hard as when you're not home.
    
    Just my opinion...
    
    Sheryl

	I did unsupervised housecleaning for our neighbors before the
	birth of their child.  I was paid hourly, about the same as I
	got for babysitting, I believe.  I vacuumed, dusted, cleaned the
	bathroom.  I think I was 12.  After the baby was born, I began
	babysitting when he was about 7 months old (my older sister
	babysat before then).  I had no experience (other than younger
	sisters), but our neighbor trusted me.  I also used to 
	come over when they entertained.  I'd watch the baby, put him to bed,
	help serve and clear the dinner and dishes, and help with clean-up.

	I was paid the same wage as for babysitting.

	Eventually, I was a live-in babysitter for the family (when they
	moved away) from Thursday morning to Saturday, and sometimes through
	Sunday.  (Age 16)  I was paid $25 for 16 hours of babysitting, and
	more if there was any added sitting (if they wanted to play tennis
	after work).

	Karen

    
    
    I was a live-in mother's helper for the week of Feb. vacation one year,
    when I was about 12.  The girl I had to take care of was about 11, and
    had cerebral palsy.  I had to take care of the girl as best I could. 
    Obviously I couldn't lift her, but I had to feed her and wash her
    hands/face and clean up her food/tray when she was done.  I had to get
    her clothes for the morning and bedtime, and put away the dirty
    laundry.  Her parents did the actual dressing and bathing.  I had to
    help her mom lift her occassionally, but not usually.  I was expected
    to help prepare dinner, vaccuum/sweep,and play with this girl and her
    younger sister, as often as possible.  
    
    For the week (5 days), I was paid $30.00.  I was given a small guest
    room to stay in and was fed.  I was allowed to "call home" once a day. 
    I think I lasted 4 days - maybe only 3.  I absolutely HATED it.  The
    girl was much larger than me, and threw things when she got frustrated
    (often).  Since they lived in a different town, I couldn't call anyone
    I knew, and a LOT of my time was spent alone with the girl, bored to
    death.  She could not communicate or control herself, and the amount of
    work that was expected, was not fully communicated to me, up front.  It
    was WAY too much to expect from a 12 year old, for a grand total of 30
    dollars.  At the time, the going rate for babysitting was $1.00 -
    $1.50/hr.
    
    So, in restrospect .... try to be as detailed as possible, and explain
    JUST what you'll be expecting her to do.  Make SURE that she
    understands the money, and give her the opportunity to say "no".  Also,
    if you're planning on paying her more as her experience increases, it
    may help to tell her that too - get her a little motivated as well! 
    Find out from HER what hours she'd like to work.  If you want her from
    4:00 - 6:00, does that have to be EVERY day?  Or can it just be most
    days? 
    
    I would suggest ~$2.00/hr, and have her concentrate on watching the
    kids, maybe a little housekeeping.  You could set aside some time where
    for an hour she watches the baby, so you get an hour, uninterrupted,
    with your older child.  Just be clear about your expectations, her
    expectations, and payment.  It might also help to tell her when you'll
    pay her (daily/wkly).
    
    Good Luck!

Thanks for all the great suggestions so far.  Part of why I have so many
questions is that Shannon won't voice any preferences.  For example,
when I asked her what hours she would prefer to work her answer was "it
doesn't matter - whenever you need me".  I want to make sure I treat her
fairly and that she doesn't finish the summer feeling burned out or taken
advantage of.  I also want to make sure I get the help I need.

The suggestions here give me a good starting point for setting expectations
at both ends.  Thanks alot - and keep those suggestions coming.

- Carol 

    Carol,
    
    Maybe you could ask her to choose her hours.  My neice is 
    very eager to babysit (she's 11.5) and we plan to start using
    her as a mother's helper this summer.  She'll also be taking
    a babysitting course this summer.   But, we have always
    had problems getting her to express her preferences.  She's
    stayed overnight several times and just getting her to be
    honest about her like or dislike of food is a chore.  I guess
    she just tries too hard to please.
    
    		Linda

    I am facing a similar issue.  We are the working parents of twin 13-month 
    old boys.  I am looking at hiring my next door neighbor's 14 year old
    daughter to help out during the week and on Saturdays.
    
    I am looking at 6 - 8:00 on Tues, Wed, and Thurs evenings and on
    Saturdays from 10:00am until 2:00pm.  This is 10 hours a week.  Because
    we have two very active children for her to deal with, we are looking
    at offering $3.50 per hour (or $35.00 a week).
    
    My husband works late most evenings and I'd expect my helper to play
    with and care for the boys while I change clothes, prepare dinner, and
    wash clothes (or some other quick chore); then help clean-up after
    feeding and take them for a walk outside after dinner.
    
    On Saturdays, I'd expect my helper to occupy the boys in the morning
    after breakfast (when they're their busiest!), and then watch them as
    they nap and I run off to the grocery store.
    
    How does this compare to what others are paying and expecting of their
    babysitters? 
    
    

    Re: .53
    
    I will probably pay a little more than $3.5 per hour for two active
    toddlers.  I have a 3 yr old and a 5 yr old.  I pay my babysitter
    $4/hr.  She is also 14 years old.  She doesn't clean up or do
    any house work, just plays with the kids.  
    
    Wendy  

    
    What precautions do you think are reasonable/warranted regarding
    parents hiring babysitters?  More specifically, what precautions
    do you take if you are hiring young, female sitters when the parents (us)
    are a heterosexual couple?  
    
    The parents of one of our sitters won't allow her to be driven
    by any male.  This means I have to do the pick up and drop-off.
    I don't mind this, but it's made me wonder whether I should be
    prudent and do this with our other sitters.
    
    Also, there have been instances when we've hired a sitter during the
    day to watch our baby while I was at work and my husband was working
    in our office at home or out in the yard.  I'm wondering now if that's
    a reasonable situation, or one we should avoid.
    
    What's the norm out there?
    
    --Jennifer
    
    Moderator -- If this note is more appropriate under the babysitting
    topic, feel free to move it.

    re .55, no male driver of female babysitter
    
    I've never encountered this.  Perhaps this sitter has had 
    a bad experience and being driven by a man now makes her
    very scared.
    			-John Bishop

In my experience, insisting on only female drivers is not the norm, and I
wouldn't suggest doing it voluntarily, unless it were more convenient for
you, or unless you chose, as a consideration or courtesy, to ask the
babysitter if it matters to her (I'm using "her" since the question was about
young female babysitters).

Speaking from the standpoint of the parent of the babysitter: 

Our daughter is 13, and does a fair amount of babysitting.  We've never
taken the precaution of insisting that she be transported by a female, but
then she's never babysat for anyone that we didn't know, or who a close
friend of hers hadn't babysat for.  I guess that argues for obtaining
babysitters by personal reference whenever possible.

My daughter has done a lot of babysitting for our neighbors; the father
works at home a lot, and there have been many times that he's been there. 
We know him well, so we don't worry.  We have never had any other situations
in which our daughter has been asked to babysit when an adult male has been
home.

Speaking from the standpoint of the people hiring the babysitter:

We've never had the parents of a babysitter (or the babysitter herself)
insist that she be transported by my wife.  The few times that we have not
known the parents of the babysitter, I have done the driving with no
problems.

I did take what I see as some routine precautions, though.  One is that (for
many reasons in addition to babysitter issues) I am very careful with what I
drink on any outing that requires a babysitter.  That way, I don't worry
about how I drive, how I behave myself, or worry that a babysitter might
perceive me as intoxicated.  Secondly, I keep the conversation light, or
keep it centered around how she got along with the kids; I try to avoid
asking or revealing anything that may be construed as personal.

We've never had any occasion to hire a babysitter when I have been home
working.  However, if we did, I would take the precaution of working behind
closed doors and insisting -- to both the babysitter and my kids -- on no
interruptions (if I were to get interrupted, it wouldn't be worth the money
to hire a babysitter).  My interaction with the babysitter would be limited
to picking her up (or greeting her at the door) and taking her home (or
saying goodbye).

While I believe that the liklihood of a false accusation is small in
this situation, there is also the possibility of misunderstandings.  I know
I would be concerned if my daughter reported to me that Mr. Soandso said or
did something that made her feel uncomfortable, even if it were entirely
innocent on his part.  I would not want to be Mr. Soandso.

Once again, I think this argues for, whenever possible, hiring babysitters
by personal reference or acquaintance.

Clay

    
    Some more info:
    
    Yes, the parents of the sitter requested female transportation
    based on a negative experience.  Apparently, a father whose children
    she used to babysat was either accused or convicted of molesting another
    sitter (not ours).
    
    If I were her parents, that would probably make me very cautious
    as well, so I understand their concern.
    
    RE: knowing the sitter's parents.  Yes, her mom is our daycare
    provider.  They've made this an across-the-board rule for all
    their daughter's jobs, so we don't feel singled out.
    

re: .58

The precautions are understandable.  But as I said before, I wouldn't make it 
a standard practice unless it truly didn't matter, or specifically requested. 
Or if the husband had been drinking.

Clay

    Does anybody have any rates of pay for the UK. We're about ready to hit
    the social world again!
    
    Andy

    
    I pay �2.50 per hour. One sitter is a friend, so she gets a gift to the
    value of the hours. Both my other sitters are nannies. I was told that
    is the going rate for the Oxford area - maybe be different elsewhere
    in the country.
    
              seals
     

	I pay 2 pounds per hour up to midnight, 4 pounds an hour
	after midnight. I was told this was the going rate for the 
	Reading area. Having seen -.1 perhaps I'm underpaying...
	 	
	Paula.

    The sitter seemed quite chuffed with �10 for 7pm till 10pm, so I think
    we'll stick to �2-50 / hr.

    If this belongs somewhere else, feel free to move it - 
    
    I got a letter in the mail yesterday from a neighborhood child looking to
    earn money for a trip to Europe.  I'm going on maternity leave in a
    couple of weeks, and was thinking of hiring her to help me get the
    house ready for the baby.  There are lots of things that have been let
    go - vaccuming, dusting, and folding laundry.  I'd like to have the
    girl do things like carry the laundry baskets up and down the stairs,
    help folding, maybe even come with me to the store and help me carry
    the packages upstairs.  
    
    I guess my question to parents of teens is, would this kind of stuff be
    alright with you?  What would be a reasonable rate?  The child babysits
    for others in the neighborhood, so she probably has some type of rate. 
    I'm thinking of offering to pay $1.00 more than her babysitting rate.
    
    	Any thoughts?
    
    		marianne
     

    Marianne,
    
    I don't know what the going rate would be these days, but I
    did the same type of thing when I was in school for my next
    door neighbor when she had one toddler and was expecting
    another.
    
    I would help with laundry, cooking, vaccuuming etc.  Even came
    over at 2am to babysit when she went into labor.
    
    My parents liked it because it taught me responsibility and
    also took the blinders away as to what marriage and family 
    raising are like.
    
    Just make sure that you can trust her and that she is mature
    enough to handle the responsibility without the whining that
    teanagers are so good at.  8*)
    
    Good Luck,
    Pam

   You may want to talk with the neighbors too... partly to see how
   responsible this person is, and partly to find out what they are
   paying this person.  We've found that some kids don't have a rate (or
   at least don't want to tell), and have been told "whatever seems fair"
   to that question about "what's your rate".
   
   fwiw,
   
   - Tom
   

    
    Has anyone had there babysitter do an overnighter?  If so, do you pay them
    more an hour than their regular rate? (maybe $1 more/hour)?
    
    

    
    	I usually pay a flat fee of either $40.00 or $50.00 a night.
    
    	    
                                       

The ones that we had in the past charged a fixed rate that can range from 
$35.00 to $75.00 a night, depending on the number of kids, the starting and 
ending time and the day (weekday, weekend or holidays).  For the cheaper 
rate we allowed the babysitter to bring her own child to spend the night too.

  --Cida

    
    What are babysitters getting these days?  Looking for occsional
    babysitting on saturday nites for 3 kids (4, 8, and 10) while single
    parent works.  At the Indian Rock condos in Merrimack, NH 

    I pay my babysitter between $2.50 and $3.00 per hour. My daughter is
    13 mon and usaully requires lots of attention.  We usually only go out
    once a month though.
    
                                     Alice
    

It depends on age and responsibilities.  We pay anywhere from $3 to $8.
The $8 one is a grad student who works with Dina (who's deaf) on language.
The $3 one is a high school student who just does the basics.

    I pay between $5.00 and $6.50 per hour for my twin girls.  Sometimes
    the babysitter bathes them and prepares and feeds them dinner and puts
    them to bed.  We don't go out often (too expensive!)  Our sitter(s) are
    usually "professional" nannys over twenty years old.  We live in
    in the metro-west area of Boston between 495 and 128 -- maybe location
    matters.

    How do you find babysitters?  I am willing to pay $5.00/hour for
    one child, but I see very few high school age children in our 
    neighborhood.  Do you put an ad in the local paper?  How do you
    find an older sitter?
    
    Thanks,
    Terry

    I found all my sitters through the church I go to. Someone else I know
    called the local high school and they had some kind of a program/list
    that people could use. I  don't remember which town.  I am really 
    surprised that people pay $5/hour for a high school student. I thought
    I was paying a lot with $3/hour. To think that I used only get $1/hr
    (well it was 15 yrs ago).
    
                                              Alice

    I also pay $5/hour.  I have 3 children (1.5, 4 & 6).  I asked my
    babysitters how much other parents pay them and they said it varied
    from 4-5 dollars.  I give them 5 for full hours and if it's an extra 10
    or 15 minutes into the next hour I dont bother with it.  It probably
    does depend on the location since when I babysat ~20 years ago I got
    $2 - $2.50 an hour.
    
    Rhonda

    Our middle school has a list of kids who have completed the babysitting
    course).  I find it useful to start with a 7th or 8th grader because
    once they get to high school their social life is much busier.
    
    I pay $3/hr to an adolescent. My older sitter, I give ~$4, because she
    has a license and takes the kids to various places.
     

    
    I usually pay around $3-4.00/hr (Nashua) for 1 (EASY!) 2.5 year old.
    If they have to put him to bed (a fairly impossible task for a
    stranger), I pay them and extra $5.00 or so.  
    
    One of my sitter's was the daughter of a woman I work with.  The other
    sitters I've found through daycare.  Either one of the moms there, or
    one of the daycare folks themselves (we have some teen girls in our
    center, who close the center).  The daycare sitters have worked best -
    they know everything about him already, and it's more pointing out
    where stuff is, then how to care for him. (oh, and he might even go to
    sleep for them! (-;)
    
    Patty

    I pay my sitter 3.50 an hour for one 18 month old child.  Usually she
    has to feed her and put her to bed.  I found her by posting an ad at
    the nearby college.  I specified what I wanted (preferred Spanish
    speaking and CPR certified), and how much I wanted to pay.  She is a
    nursing major, which I consider a plus.
    
    I am also in the process of starting a babysitting co-op in my
    neighborhood.  This will alleviate the $$ problem.  I don't mind
    watching a neighbor's child on a Friday or Saturday night when I'm 
    going to be sitting at home anyway.  Also, I find it easier to take care 
    of two toddlers (that keep each other busy), than just to watch one 
    (who wants you to keep her busy).
    
    Kristen
    

    I do believe location makes a big difference.  I live in Carlisle. 
    Daycare in the Acton/Concord/Chelmsford/Carlisle area is very expensive 
    and the babysitters are from $4-6. I have 1 low maintenance child. I've 
    found all Alex's sitters through his daycare center. There are 2 aids in 
    their 20's who also go to local colleges and babysit on the side - they 
    charge 5 and 6.  High school girls also work there afternoons and do 
    babysitting. They charge from $4 (for a 14 year old who we have to 
    transport) to $6.  The girls over 16 drive to our house which is nice. 
    Though expensive, I feel great about leaving Alex with any of these girls 
    as he already knows them and I know they are very responsible.
    
    I think church and schools are other good sources.  
    
    Kathy

    I pay $4-5/hr for my sitter, who is 14.5 and has been through 
    infant CPR and first aid training.  She's a mature 14.5 yr old
    and loves kids.  I think once you find someone you trust, and 
    that your child enjoys you're willing to pay them a little more
    to "keep them".  She stays overnights as well on the weekends
    if we are going to be home late.  
    
    My son is almost 3... very easy (loves to go to bed, in fact the
    sitter usually complains that he wanted to go to bed early and
    she wanted him to stay up and play!).  We normally have already
    fed him and have his PJs out.  She just has to change him into
    his PJs. 
    
    We probably pay her too much since she really only has to watch
    him for about 1-2 hrs, and the rest of the time she just watches
    TV.  I'd like to get paid $5/hr to watch TV!  But she's wonderful,
    so it's worth it.  Plus, we have family watch him a lot when we
    go out (at no cost) so it all balances out I guess.
    
    I am expecting another child in June, and I don't think I will 
    pay more for 2 kids either, since the sitter simply adores babies
    she'll probably be begging me to have her over.  However, we 
    do have to transport both ways, and she lives about 10 minutes 
    away (our previous neighborhood).  
    
    

    
    I generally pay $6 an hour for 2 kids in Nashua, NH.  However, I too
    only use their daycare providers so the women are older and have their
    own transportation.
    
    Our nearly 2 year-old has been kicking up quite a storm when we've
    had a sitter lately, so it certainly isn't as often as I might like.
    
    judy

    I have two daughters that still both babysit.  One is 17 the other is
    19.  For 2 or more kids I believe the going rate is $5-$6 and hour. 
    Since I also have a 3 and 7 year old, they babysit for us when we go
    out.
    
    We live in Merrimack.  The noter a few back could call them and set up
    an interview prior to actually having them babysit.  Send me mail
    off line and I'll give you the phone number.
    
    Chris

I also use daycare providers (or ex-daycare providers), who 
are usually late-teens or older.  I pay $6/hour for two kids 
(3 and 5), plus a tip to keep them coming back :-).

I have also found babysitters in my neighborhood by calling
the Girl Scouts area coordinator and asking her for the
troops leaders names.  The troop leaders can recommend girls
from their troops who have completed baby-sitter training, etc.

I'd publish the troop leader names, but I know they are out
of date - their kids have graduated.  You can get the Girl Scout
coordinator name from the local high schools.

Pat

    
    	I pay $3.50 an hour, and always round up (so that it usually comes
    	close to $4.00).  This is for early evening care for two children
    	(never past 11:00 so far).  If I wanted someone during the day
    	or for more than 4 hours, I'd pay $4.50.
    
    	I was very dismayed to find the 15 year olds in my neighborhood
    	asking $5.00 an hour.  What appears to have happened is that
    	the first few people in our new development relocated to
    	Massachusetts, and thought nothing of paying $5.00 an hour for one
    	child.  I'd gladly pay that to an adult, with her own
    	transportation, but not to a 15 year old.  There are now two girls
    	of babysitting age, and both refuse to work for under $5.00.  What
    	bothers me the most is that they charge the same rate whether they
    	watch one kid or ten, so the woman in the neighborhood with three
    	rowdy kids is just thrilled to have her services.
    
    	I offered one girl a regular job at $4.00 an hour, and she turned
    	it down because of the pay.
    
    	Anyway, the few 16 year olds that I have used are happy to sit
    	when they are available, but they are very active in after-school
    	activities.  I have started calling some girls from the high school
    	babysitting list, and will conduct interviews next week.
    
    	Karen
    

    
    	In case anyone wonders, my objection to paying $5.00 is that
    	my licensed daycare provider charges me $5.20 an hour for TWO
    	kids, and feeds them lunch.  She's got eleven years of experience.
    	Her 16 year old is one of my sitters, and her rate (set by her, not
    	me) is $3.50.
    
    

    I usually swap off with neighbors, as there are a lot of people with
    kids in my neighborhood and I trust a fair number of them with my kids.
    
    Occaisionally I have had to hire a sitter.  I pay them well, as I have
    screened them carefully and belive that these people have my kids life
    in their hands during the time I am away, and until recently I didn't
    have a pager that I could switch on so they could reach me if I wasn't
    easily reachable.  Two kids is 4.00/hour for one of my sitters, and a 
    little more if I need her to fix dinner.  Ususally I leave money for
    calling in a pizza or subs if we are going out during a dinner period.
    
    meg

    
    RE: .85
    
    It doesn't seem to me to be a fair comparison between a more-or-less 
    full-time position (that also includes income for the care of other 
    children in addition to yours - so maybe she's getting $15/hour) to 
    a part-time babysitting job.   And except for the transportation, 
    I don't understand the distinction between the 15 year old and the 
    adult given that both meet the basic job requirements.  
    
    I think that you need to look at it from the kid's point of view.
    If they can work part-time at McDonalds for $4.75 (and maybe 
    get 10-12 hours/week), the babysitting rate needs to be competitive
    (or much more convenient, fit their schedule better, etc) to that.    
    Of course, I babysat for $2.50/hour in 1970-mumble, so $5 doesn't 
    seem out of this world *20* years later!
    
    just me, cj/

    I also think that it's tough to compare a daycare provider with a
    babysitter.  In general, it is going to cost you less to take your kids
    outside your home versus having someone come to your house.  Anyone who 
    provides daycare services at their home or in a center is going to make
    more per hour, just by having more kids over.  
    
    I've had adults (who support themselves providing daycare) and a 
    16-year old.  My kids are 18 months and 4 years, so the babysitters
    usually have to watch them more carefully, and sometimes entertain and
    feed them.  For that, I don't mind paying $5/hour plus an occasional
    tip.  If the kids were older, or if it was a time that they would be
    mostly sleeping, I would think a lower rate might be reasonable.
    
    Peggy

    
    	Actually, looking at the McDonald's situation, I actually think
    	the babysitting is a more favorable option to a 15 year old.
    
    	She can say no when the request doesn't fit her schedule.  Try
    	telling your boss at McDonald's you don't feel like working
    	Saturday night.
    
    	Taxes and FICA are not deducted.
    
    	She can usually do her homework, watch TV, eat, etc. while
    	babysitting.
    	
    	It may not be an apples to apples comparison between my sitter
    	and my daycare provider, however, I still feel that someone
    	who has 11 years experience watching kids 40 hours a week
    	has seen a lot more than a 15 year old who has been babysitting
    	for a year.  
    
    	I was a live-in babysitter when I was 16 and received $2.00 an
    	hour.  Minimum wage was three-something, and I felt I was fairly
    	compensated.
    
    	Karen
    

    
    To me, it's a matter of individual priorities and choices.  
    Some teens will prefer to have a flexible schedule and the
    opportunity to study, watch TV, etc. that babysitting provides; 
    some teens would prefer to work in a restaurant or mall store
    for the sake of regular income or for social reasons (which 
    would have been my preference as a teenager).    Some kids 
    will be happy with $3.50, some will want to go with whatever 
    the market will bear - sounds like $5 in your neighborhood 8-(.     
    
    From another angle, I buy all kinds of stuff from the kids 
    in our neighborhood (much of it I don't want or need...) to
    support their various activities, sports, schools, etc. 
    I think I would personally prefer to hire a child from my 
    neighboorhood at a slightly higher rate than bringing in 
    someone from across town - in the interest of helping out
    my neighbors' kids but also for the convenience (i.e. they
    can walk home).  Those are my personal priorities  - yours 
    might be different (and equally valid!).
    
    Food for thought.  Probably need to agree to disagree on
    this one!
    
    Carol        
    

I have four sitters I use two live in the neighborhood and two don't.

I use the two that don't more. They are twin sisters and have transport so they
can sit until 12:30. They tend to take it in turns to sit. I pay them about
$5.00 an hour rounding up. They will both be off to college next year :-(

The girl next door used to sit a lot and could sit late but is caught up in
activities and often is difficult to get to commit to a particular night in
advance.

The forth live down the street. She is the youngest and her dad picks her up
after sitting but she can only sit until 11:00 so it's limiting. I see her as
being my long term faithful sitter. Igive her about $4.00 per hour.

The neghborhood sitters I found by talking to neighbors.

I also got a list from the family services department in the town. They run a
sitter class. Mostly they are younger but they gave me the twins names so it
works out well.