Conference moira::parenting

    I thought Brad was the only child who was perfectly trained at daycare,
    but messes everynight at home.  Any advice?
    
    Sasha

    Sasha,
    
    It is perfectly normal to have a kid potty trained in one 
    enviornment but not the other.  Especially at the early stage.
    My son was first trained at home, but messed almost everyday
    at daycare.  It took him about 6 months to be completely
    clean in both places.  Another factor is the age.  My son
    was trained at very young.  He was trained at 22 months.
    I found that at daycare, he was too busy to go potty.  And
    he was too young to feel embarrassed when he had an accident.
    
    Give Brad few more months, he will outgrow it.
    
    Wendy

    My husband and I are in the process of potty training our 2.4 yr old
    son (Aaron).  Aaron does fine when it comes to urinating ... he usually
    tells one of us "Mommy, I have to go pee pee" ... sometimes he even
    goes straight to the potty chair on his own.
    
    BUT...! When it comes to a bowel movement he just will not go on the
    potty.  In fact, his favorite thing to do is stand in the dinning room
    and look out the window while he goes in his pants.  Often someone in
    the family (we have two other children) will spot Aaron standing by the
    window ... if you ask him "Aaron, what are you doing?" or say "Do you
    want to do that on the potty?" ...  he has a fit and either says
    "Nooooo" or "Don't look at me!"
    
    We've tried to encourage him and comfort him telling him that "It's
    better to do poops in the potty" but nothing works.  Any suggestions? 
    I didn't have this situation with the other two.
    
    Karen

    
    re: .3  
    
    I have the *exact* same problem with Jason (2 years, 8 months), so
    I'm anxious to hear the responses/recommendations your note might
    get!
    
    Carol

    Just keep encouraging it.  Don't force it.  It'll just come one day.
    Chase, my 3 year old hated the small potty chair so about 6 months ago
    he just got up on the regular toilet and has been happily pooping and
    peeing on it since then.  We didn't even tell him to, he just went for
    it.  Real funny thing to is ever since then he's been relating his
    poops to letters of the alphabit.  It's so funny everytime to watch him
    with his finger on his brow tapping it and trying to think of what
    letter the poop of the day looks like.
    
    "This ones the letter J daddy!"
    
    Steve

Karen,

Been there, done it, hated it! :').

Marc used to go outside and sit on the rocks to do a BM, or under the 
dining room table!

I entered a long discussion about my son's progress in the old version of 
PARENTING....Anyway, does he wear Pull-ups or "big-boy" underwear?

We found the incentive of Pull-ups/"big-boy" underwear (he wanted Ninja
Turtle ones) helped to encourage Marc to try harder. Wanted to be just like
Dad and other older boys that are his friends. After diapers he was in
Pull-ups for ~6 months. 

He was over 3 years old when we really worked to improve his 
performance, because he was ready and just seemed to take advantage of the 
situation...so keeping in mind the personality of your little guy and 
your patience - you could also do what we thought was another big 
incentive - we involved Marc in the clean-up process. We stopped letting 
him be a passive recipient of all the attention required to clean-up (I 
think now, looking back, that some of the slowness is the reluctance to 
give up yet another part of their little lives where they are the center of 
attention). Nothing major, no harsh words, just that he had to really 
involve himself in the process, help rinse out the underwear in the toilet, 
and deliver it to the washing machine in the basement.

Eventually, we also added M&Ms for success, Stars and sad faces on the
calendar. A month of stars = some big toy he really wanted. 

After that month of stars, we've never looked back and now don't even have 
to "check his bum"! He is 4 now, and we turned the corner last fall.

My mother had perverse pleasure in pointing out that I was the same way 
(outside for BMs and slowwwww in getting the hang of it).

Also to echo an earlier note - we discovered he did not like the potty
chair or the insert in the toilet seat at all - and we ended up letting him
hang on for dear life on the regular seat! 

What a difference in lifestyle for all of us!

Good luck,

JR

    Re: .6
    
    You've given me some good ideas ... I need to expand on incentive i.e.;
    M&Ms, smiley faces on the calendar.
    
    We try to make a big thing out of it when he does go potty.  Whenever
    one of the family members takes Aaron to the potty and he goes ... we
    basically have a round of applause, "good boy! ... you went potty!"
    That worked o.k. for awhile but now if Aaron even sits on the potty,
    whether he goes or not, he claps and says "good boy - potty!"
    
    Yesterday he had a bowel movement in his pull-ups ... at the
    recognition of him going, my daughter hurried him to the potty and very
    happily said "You're a big boy, I know you can do poops on the potty" 
    She then put on him - but it was too late.  He's just not interested.
    
    I'm going to try different incentives and see if that works.  Thanks
    for the suggestions.
    
    Karen

    
    Back tracking?????
    
    our 2 yr 5 month old duaghter was very interested in the potty, at
    about 2yr, 2 months.  So we put her in pullups and "fancy pants" (the
    real thing) and started potty training.   She caught on to #1
    really well;  #2 was sort of on and off, even when we offer suckers for
    "poops in the potty".
    
    in the last month we've moved to a new house, she's had surgery twice,
    (all went well) and in about one month, she'll have a sibling.
    
    Expereinced types, what should we expect/do? Forge on ahead? (we
    DON'T pressure, she will often get upset, and we tell her everybody has
    accidents, etc) plan on staying at this plateau for a few more months?
    expect more regression?
    
    ???
    
    

    What kind of potty equipment do people recommend?  The folding seat
    that goes over the regular toilet seat?  A separate unit?  What kind?
    
    My daughter is showing the signs.  We went to Pizzeria Uno for lunch on
    Fathers Day.  In the ladies room, she wanted to sit on the toilet.  I
    let her sit there awhile with her clothes on.  After lunch, she lay
    down on the floor by our table and pulled down her overalls.  Hey Mom,
    take a hint!  Everyone in the restaurant thought that was very amusing.
    -:)
    
    L

    Well, alot has changed in potty equipment in the last 5-7 years.  So,
    my preference might be a little outdated.  We bought the "toilet style"
    Cosco two piece seat for our first.  It is not steady - when the child
    leaned on one end to raise himself off the seat it would tip.  The nice
    feature was that the seat came off and secured onto the regular toilet.
    
    With our second I bought the NuLine brand wood seat that sat like a
    chair, had a tray and would fold for travelling.  We preferred this
    because it was sturdy, it folded for easy travelling.  We never used
    the straps on either seat or the tray on the second.  We still had the
    seat from the first unit to attach to the regular toilet when
    necessary.
    
    When looking, I suggest you make sure its easy to use, sturdy, (for
    boys make sure the reflector cap is comfortable and doesn't pinch the
    child when sitting) and that the bowl is easily taken out and replaced
    by the little ones that like to "help".
    
    -sandy
    

    (Seems like potty training happened so long ago!!!)
    
    When Tobias was potty-training, we bought a three-piece
    potty.  It consisted of a blue vinyl base with a deep
    depression in it, a potty that exactly fit into the depression,
    and a two-way seat.  The seat could be used either on the
    base, or, it could be removed and snapped onto the real
    toilet seat.
    
    Usually, but not always, we put the potty seat on the real
    one whenever he had to go.  Occasionally he'd use the
    potty on its base (this was fairly infrequent).  As he got
    older, and was actually "trained", he got into the habit
    of putting the potty seat onto the toilet himself, so
    that the hole accommodated his butt size more comfortably.
    It's been quite a while since he's used it.
    
    If you're considering a snap-on seat, some of them have
    shields, indented for boys, that protrude above the top
    of the seat.  The shield catches misdirected urine from
    a boy's penis.
    
    My wife insisted on buying a really cheap potty for our
    car, "just in case".  It was never used even once.  So
    if you're considering one of them, forget it.

    We never used a potty chair, we instead used two methods.  We bought
    something called a "baby Loo" at Toys R Us.  It's like a two step
    ladder, and an attached potty seat ring insert.  It's bright red and
    blue, and goes over the toilet itself.  (He was going through a "me do
    it stage-bigtime at the time, and this he could do himself)  We simply 
    found it a little bulky for storage.  We also bought one of the simple 
    plastic toilet ring inserts, real inexpensive and very small in storage 
    space. It also traveled well.  It acutally fits into one of the small 
    white plastic bags designed to line the bathroom bucket, or one of the 
    plastic bags like you get at the supermarket, for carrying.  Great for 
    taking with you to  grandmas or restaurants.
    
    My feeling was that he really wouldn't need either one very long so why
    spend big bucks on it.  I guess I really misjuged on that one!
    
    Lyn

    I forget the name, but we got the one that has a blue base which can be
    flipped over to use as a stool. It's the best thing we ever bought -
    the seat itself can either be used with the base or fit over the toilet
    seat itself.
    
    We use the stool for Ryan to stand on to brush teeth etc, and I sit on
    it while the kids are in the tub.
    
    

re: .9

It's been a long time for us also, but one comment is that the kind that goes 
over a regular toilet seat as a "starter seat" may cause a problem because the 
child can't reach the floor (with her/his feet, not with the urine, they have 
NO trouble doing that), and many kids feel awkward or uncomfortable trying to 
"do it" with their feet dangling.  The kind that go over a regular toilet seat 
can be very useful later, though, to prevent the feeling of falling into the 
toilet.

So I guess my suggestion is to get the kind that can be used wither way.

Clay

    Neither of my kids ever used anything.  They both trained at about 3
    and were quite capable of sitting on the seat.  Easiest of all!!

    We borrowed a seat from my sister in law but Steven decided he
    much preferred to use the big potty.  
    
    Now if we could only get him to use it consistently!  I'd
    appreciate hearing what worked for all of you.
    
    We were doing great with stickers on a special calendar until
    we all had a bout with the flu this spring.  Now it's back to
    square one and we're nervous that he won't be trained in time
    for nursery school this fall.  Steven's 2 yrs, 8 mos.
    
    HELP!
    
    Linda

    Linda, a bit of reassurance from an "expert".  We though too that we
    had a problem when AJ was still having accidents at 3+ and consulted a
    psycologist at Umass medical that deals in toileting problems.  
    
    His words:  "It's unrealistic of a preschool to think that every child
    is trained and accident free at age3!"  He is the father of young
    children and see this as an unrealistic expectation, which puts
    unneeded pressure on such a very young child.  He said you don't have a
    real problem unless it progresses past kindegarten age.
    
    If you preschool has a requirement that says children of 3 MUST be
    completely trained, then IMO find another preschool THEY have the
    problem not your child!! .... I DID!!
    
    Lyn
    

    I agree with .17.  Don't force your child to be potty trained because
    of a school requirement.  You have to live with the consequences which
    can be severe both physically and psychologically.  Every child will
    get potty trained at their own pace.  Don't make a big deal of it.
    

    Lyn and Maxine,
    
    I've already crossed the center off my list that REQUIRES
    that children must be potty trained at 2 yr, 9mos.
    
    This particular center seems to be more lenient.  The teacher
    I met with pointed out a few of the children that had diapers
    on and didn't feel it was a big deal if he was trained or not.
    
    I spoke with the director on the phone and she said if he's well
    on his way (about 85% trained), they'd start him in the 3 yr old's
    room, otherwise he would start in the toddler room (15 mos - 2yr 9mos)
    
    My gut feeling is that they will put him in the 3 yr old room.
    I'll be speaking with her again soon and find the reasoning behind
    that requirement.  Everyone I speak to says don't expect to have
    him trained til 3+  ...then why on earth do these schools require
    the kids to be trained EARLIER? (this center does have changing 
    facilities)
    
    For now, Steven's doing great on the potty (today at least)
    I keep reminding myself NOT to push him.
    
    Linda

    re .19
    
    Because it's easier for them, that's why!  There are regulations set up
    about diaper changing facilities.  Usually they are strict enough so
    that a day care center has one place set up for diaper changing, and
    that is where the little kids are.  Sending an older child in to get a
    diaper change may disturb the little ones, etc.
    
    My children's day care worked with both my kids at their own pace and
    worked with us as well.  We knew each day how they had done.  Often
    the peer pressure is enough to get your kid going in a 3 and up
    setting.  Good luck! 

    Nick (currently 2yrs 9 mos) has been 'going on the potty' for almost
    5 months now. He started it of his own free will, and never even
    considered using the potty chair...he went right to the toilet. It's
    been very easy for us so far (we attribute it to his emulating his
    older friend in daycare, esp. his 'girlfriend' Kimmy, who was able to
    graduate to the preschool room partly because she was toilet trained,
    but I digress...:^) 
    
    For the past two months, Nick has been virtually accident-free (maybe 
    one every 10 days or so.), which has earned him the right to wear
    'big-boy' underwear all the time instead of diapers. However, lately 
    he's been having accidents more frequently (one every 3 days), and had 
    two on Sunday. After the second accident yesterday, we put a diaper on 
    him instead of underwear (we had to run some errands and didn't want to 
    risk another accident), with the understanding that if he kept the diaper 
    dry, he'd go right back to wearing underpants. This seemed to work, as he 
    remained dry for the rest of the afternoon and only wore the diaper for
    a couple of hours.
    
    Kathy and I are trying to be low-key about this and are trying to avoid 
    putting undue pressure on him, but at the same time would like to get him 
    back on track. We didn't enjoy reverting to diapers, but couldn't come
    up with a better short-term fix. Can anyone else share some advice on
    dealing with and minimizing accidents?
    
    Thanks in advance...
    
    Freddie
    
    P.S. At what age did your son begin peeing from a stand-up position?
    Just curious...
                                                                          
                                                                      

    My oldest told us when he was ready - he was about 2.5 years old.  He
    had many accidents at first, but he was trying.  We never put him back
    in a diaper (not even at night) because he asked to wear big boy pants.
    We woke him at night to potty, we brought many changes of clothes with
    us, we frequently asked if he had to go.  I think he started standing
    when he was tall enough to reach over the edge of the bowl (with stool
    or without).  He preferred that method!
    
    My second seemed like he would be wearing diapers to school.  He was
    not interested even though we brought out all the equipment at 2.5  We
    tried the potty chair, the training pants, etc.  He would try, but he
    was not interested in really working at it.  He begged to be put in
    diapers again.  Finally when he was 3.5 he was sitting on the edge of
    the sink in wet swimwear and I (pretending to be very busy) told him to
    wait for a bit till I could change him.  He was very concerned about
    being without a diaper.  I told him he would be fine.  After 15 minutes
    and a little convincing from me, we placed his little bottom in
    training pants and NEVER had an accident (wet or dry) day or night.  
    
    He did digress at 4 to where he was too busy to get himself to the
    bathroom for BMs.  After the first few times, we finally decided it was
    his responsibility and we were going to insist he get himself to the
    bathroom on time.  It took about 4 months of reprimands and making him
    clean up and take a bath immediately following - one day it just
    stopped.  
    
    Different strokes....
    
    -sandy
    

    Marc is 2 yrs. 8 months, and has used the potty for peeing a number of
    times over the past month or two, either at my suggestion, or because
    he's asked to go.  But it's still pretty infrequently, maybe once every
    few days.  I haven't had the courage to put underwear on him because I
    feel like I would just end up with a lot of wet underwear.  Does it
    seem too soon to try?  How can I get him to go more often?
    
    Also, he has never used the potty for poop.  He seems to be aware after
    the fact (as in "Mom, I have a poopy diaper"), but never before.  He
    also doesn't exhibit any signs of "going", so I can't even get him
    to the bathroom.  Is there anything I can do besides wait?

    Alex has been useing the potty for doing pee and poop for almost the
    past year, with some accidents.  He goes all day at daycare wareing
    either a pull-up or cloth training pants and only ware a diaper at
    night incase of an accident, and sometimes wakes up dry in the morning. 
    Alex goes better for me and my daycare lady then he does with my
    husband.  he will tell you when he has to go pee or poop and with the
    poop sometimes we don't make it on time due to him telling me right
    when he is ready to go.  Alex has been standing and peeing for quit
    awhile, this is from watching the other boys a daycare standing and
    peeing and he feels like a big boy know.  We started standing him when
    he was just big enough to reach the edge of the toilet.  I am hopeing
    he will be all trained by his 3rd birthday in November, he is 2.5 yrs
    right know.  Most of his accidents happen when he gets so engrossed in
    playing he forgets and goes in his pants that is why he mostly ware the
    pull-up, for those just incase times.
    
    
    Liz

    There's a lot in here about getting to 1st base -- i.e., convincing
    them to use the potty, not their diapers, pants or the floor -- but
    how do you help them use the big toilet?  James will be in school
    this fall (pre-school), and he always uses the potty at home.  How
    should we introduce the big toilet?  His potty has a seat that
    we can put over the toilet seat.  Are there any other tips and
    techniques we should try?

   Well.. I can think of a couple of things that might make a
   difference..
   
   o Go somewhere where he has friends who are already doing what you
     want him to do.  My oldest (about 3.5 yrs old) always seems to be
     more dilligent about using the potty after spending some time
     with some of her slightly older (and better trained) friends.
   
   o Go somewhere where they don't have a small potty chair and only
     bring the top part of his chair.  Could be traumatic, but it
     worked out that way for us up front.  I don't know al the details
     since my wife was with the kids when this happened, but as far as
     I know, she was out somewhere and only took the top part of our
     potty chair.  It was either use the big potty or nothing, and she
     was already to the point where she didn't want to wet her pants.
   
   Keep us posted..
   
   - Tom
   

    
    We are facing something a little different with Avanti who just turned
    3. She knows exactly when she has to pee and poop. We let her wear
    panties or cloth training pants at home and she will ask for a diaper
    when she wants to 'go'. After she has 'gone' she will ask us to take
    the diaper off and so on. When she sits on the potty instead of getting
    the diaper she says "I don't know what to do". We told her that she has
    to do exactly what she does in the diaper but she says "she is afraid".
    
    It is difficult to explain to a 3 year old in response to "I don't know
    what to do" ...actually it is "I don't know **how**" rather than
    **what**. 
    
    She starts preschool next week so I am hoping that seeing other kids
    using the potty will help her get used to the potty.
    
    Shaila

    I'm so proud--Kaitlin did poop this morning for the first time on her
    potty chair!  She'll be 17 months old on Sunday.  She's had quite an
    interest in her potty seat for a few months now. She usually makes faces and
    grunts, but we were all quite surprised when she wiped herself with her
    hand and it came back messy!  Ha ha.  
    
    Robin

My mother, who is watching my daughter today, just called to tell me that Megan
asked to go on the potty and she went poop too!! Complete with the requisite
grunting!  She, like the last noters,will also be 17 months on Sunday!

I guess I have to go buy a potty chair tomorrow!  Better go find that note and
see which one to buy!

It must just be the day for such accomplishments!

Wendy

    Kaitlin surprised me again this morning...this time she did "peepee" on 
    her chair.  She was all smiles and very proud when I put it in the big
    toilet.  This is fun!
    
    Robin

    Marc has recently started to ask to wear underpants (he's 2.9),
    probably because other kids in his daycare class are wearing them.  He
    could probably handle pee, but he has _never_ pooped in the potty, and
    doesn't seem to care.  He could walk around for hours with a poopy
    diaper and not say anything.  
    
    So, what should I do?  I hate to discourage this sudden interest in
    underpants, but I also don't want to end up with 4-5 pairs of poopy
    and/or wet underwear every day.
    
    I don't understand the purpose of pull-ups.  Are they basically the
    same as diapers, except they pull up and down instead of having tape? 
    So the kid could "go" in the pull-ups the same as diapers if they want
    to?  And then I just throw them away?  Why not just go for the
    underwear when you think they're ready?

    
    	I think that the whole allure of those pull ups is that they are
    "like" underpants (in that you pull them down and up - I'm a big kid
    now - do you hear that snappy little tune also?). For the most part,
    they are diapers and sound perfect for your situation, it's just one of
    many directions to go.
    
    			Wendy

    
    Pull-ups were a waste of money for us - they're more expensive
    than diapers and Jason figured out that they were just like
    diapers (in that he could pee in them and not feel wet).  
    Plus, either I bought the wrong size or they just don't
    fit snug like a diaper does so we had several instances
    where he just pee'd down his leg.   
    
    Like Marc, Jason got the idea of urinating down quite
    readily but it was months before he was ready to do his
    bowel movements in the toilet.   We could usually tell
    when he was going to poop (i.e. he went off in a corner)
    so we just put him in cloth training pants during the 
    day and changed him to a diaper when we felt it was "time".
    Then he went to asking for a diaper!   At that point, we
    knew he could be trained but he is a stubborn child and
    still didn't want to go on the toilet.  Eventually he
    came around and is now going on the toilet.  
    
    I'd say if Marc wants to wear underpants to skip the 
    pull-ups and give it a go!
    
    Good luck,
    Carol

    Just a tip, from experience, to save laundry and stains in the
    undies...
    
    Buy the big boy (or girl) pants, but I insert a "diaper doubler", which
    is like an extra wide, extra long kotex pad (no plastic shield though)
    and insert it between the child and the big person pants.  
    
    If they have a "minor" accident, most times I only need change the
    doubler.  
    
    I buy these 40 to a package, they are disposable, for 3.49 at Stop and
    Shop, Wallgreen drug.  Much cheaper than diapers, saves a lot of stains
    inthe pants.  Personally I wasn't real impressed with pull ups.
    
    Lyn

    The reason for the Pull-Ups according to my babysitter (she deals with
    more kids potty training then I ever will) is that children can pull
    them up and down like underwear. If the child has a messy BM, the
    pull-up can be removed by ripping the side vs. making the child step
    out of the pants and smearing it down the leg, so the mess is easier to
    clean up. I'm not crazy about them myself, I use cloth diapers, but I
    still keep a supply around for my daughter at night time. She has had a
    little regression since our second arrived and is still occasionally
    having night time accidents.

Juli saw pullups as "fancy diapers" ... so they didn't motivate her to
potty train at all!

I use 5-ply cloth training pants.  They hold A LOT and a little hand
scrubbing and bleach gets any stain out.

Juli's daycare center prefers the pullups because they can dispose of
accidents much easier and it keeps it pretty self-contained ... but they
were very supportive when I explained that the pullups weren't effective
with Juli and agreed to allow us to use the 5-ply training pants (and we
stocked extra shorts/shirts/socks/AND SNEAKERS in her backup clothes bag,
at daycare).

Juli started potty-training before her second birthday, but it was very
unpredictable ... I think Juli just got "lucky" when she had a success!
Since Juli is petite, she was still wearing "medium" diapers and Jim/I
didn't seem to mind the fact that Juli was up/down about potty training.
We agreed to let Juli "yo-yo" (and stay in diapers) until 2-1/2.

Over the July 4th holiday, Juli told US she wanted to give up diapers and
wear "big girl pants" ... so I dug out the training pants and she trained
herself pretty much overnight!  She goes all day and all night "dry", however,
if she's outdoors running around with the neighborhood kids, she'll mess
her pants rather than stop playing long enough to go to the bathroom.  We're
working on this problem now and Juli's friends' mother has also agreed to
get Juli to make pit stops (if Juli's in their yard).

We did have one setback (about one week into the training pants).  Juli
decided she wanted to go back to diapers!  I think it was two-fold.  First,
she could be lazy (and mess the diaper) and secondly, it was her last
lifeline to "babyhood"  (the Pedi warned me on this!, although I didn't
believe him ... Juli 'fessed up and did confirm she wanted to be "Mommy's
baby").  After an hour of tears and tugging (and my standing firm ... but
giving lots of hugs and rocking her), Juli conceded.

So ... that's how we got Juli trained within two weeks ... and we used the
5-ply cloth training pants (and don't buy them too big or they gap around the
legs and then everything will land in their sneakers! -- YUCK!!)

Dottie

PS:  My folks were so pleased with Juli's "quick training", that they "treated
     her" to ALL KINDS of little girl panties:  Little Mermaid, 101 Dalmations,
     Beauty and the Beast, Micky/Minny, Loney Tunes ... This kid now has enough
     underwear for the next 3 years!  (Lucky for us she's petite and grows
     SLOWLY!)

    Lee is about 2 years, 8 months.  He started using the potty to pee at
    arond 2 yrs, sometimes ASKING up to 3 times a day on the weekends, with
    success.  He then advanced to going "poopey" on the potty, though he
    was rather startled to find his load in the pot.  He would have fun
    helping me flush everything down the big potty, with the appropriate
    "Bye, Bye, poopy! Bye, bye, peepee!"  We succeeded with poopies about
    2-3 times before he seemed to develop an attitude about pooping in the
    pot.
    
    Then, Lee seemed to lose interest.  It wasn't "fun" anymore, I guess,
    despite the reaction we all gave him (Daddy & Lee would come get Mommy out
    of the other room to see it!).  This went for poops first, then pee.
    
    He continues to mess his diapers, though when asked to pee before his
    shower, he usually does so (standing, at the big potty).  However, he
    doesn't announce his need to pee in the day anymore.  I will sometimes
    ask him periodically if he needs to, but that doesn't seem to help.
    I've decided to just leave him alone, for the most part, though we talk
    about it, he watches us do it, and we read him his potty training book
    occasionally.
    
    He seems afraid to do bowel movements on the toilet, just like some of
    the previous replies indicate.  When we notice he's pooping in his
    diaper, we ask him, "Don't you want to do that on the potty?" or, 
    "Hey, Lee!  Why don't we go poopy on the potty?"  "No."  We don't push.
    
    I have a dear friend who, strong in character, successfully resisted
    the pressure from other family members regarding potty training of her
    son.  She was of the firm belief that when he was ready, he'd do it. 
    Sure enough, shortly before his 3rd birthday, he trained himself in
    either one day or one weekend (I can't remember which), and had only
    about 2 accidents the following entire week.  He's been trained ever
    since, from what I can tell.
    
    I'm inclined to go this route, however, I am concerned that Lee seems
    "afraid" of pooping in the toilet.  Any suggestions here?  Lee is one
    to see humor in lots of things, so I tried to turn it into a game,
    suggesting it would be "fun" to hear the splash (geez; what we'll do to
    encourage our kids!).  This amused him, but didn't egg him on any.
    
    The other concern I have is, Lee has gotten into a *bad* habit of
    including drinking-water-from-his-sippy-cup in this bedtime ritual.  We
    try to limit it to a sip or two, but he guzzles (even after having had
    a lot to drink with supper). When we try to get sneaky and only put a
    small amount in the cup, it sometimes works, but sometimes it
    backfires.  We get these sobs from the room 5 minutes later that he
    needs more water, and he's laying in bed with his cup in one hand ahd
    the cover in the other.  One additional drink and a comment from me
    that this is the LAST one usually results in no further requests for
    water.  
    
    The daycare says they give them lots to drink during the day, and 
    have frequent trips to the water fountain, but... part of me thinks,
    "What if he really IS thirsty?"  What makes matters worse, is, my
    husband insists on a large glass of water next to the bed, which he
    drinks from during the night.  He is a strong advocate of drinking lots
    of water from a health standpoint (he's right - I don't drink ENOUGH!),
    and has indicated that he doesn't feel it's right to deny him water if
    he's thirsty.  (But is he really thirsty??)
    
    Part of me realizes that, if he continues with this habit, he will be
    long in diapers at night.  (He wakes up SATURATED).  I question if I
    should treat the water just like I did his night-time bottle 2 years 
    ago....(Ferber technique).... I mentioned this to my husband, and I
    could see the wheels turning... I think he was beginning to see the cup
    as a possible extension of the bottle, even though he hasn't had a
    bottle since he was 16 months old.
    
    Suggestions???
    
    

    
    Re: .37
    
    I entered notes today to ask about the exact same problem about drinking
    water at night.  Your situation is identical to mine...my husband has
    his cup of water by the bed every night...thus Shannon has to have her
    cup of water by the bed.  I have been trying to break her of this habit
    for the past month, but am so tired of fighting the battle each night. 
    Shannon shares a room with her younger sister, so sometimes I give in
    to the water just so she won't cry and wake her sister.
    
    Shannon is 2 years 10 months and has been day-time trained  for about 4
    months now.  She started using the potty at about 18 months, and went
    back and forth until 28 months...it was a long haul since I had two in
    diapers.  She has some mornings (4 out of 7) where she has a dry
    diaper, but insists on drinking water before bed...then wets during the
    night.  At what point do you start letting them wear underwear to
    bed...should I wait until she wakes almost every morning with a dry
    diaper?  Or will a couple of wet nights motivate her to change her
    drinking habits?  She is really excited about wearing underwear to bed,
    but I have been waiting for her to go at least 5 days in a row with a
    dry diaper.
    
    Also does anyone recommend the waterproof mattress pad?  I bought her a
    normal pad, but saw a waterproof pad in Penneys the other day.  Do
    these work?  Or does anyone have any suggestions about keeping the
    mattress dry?
    
    RE:   Pull ups
    
    I found these pull ups to be real helpful when we go out somewhere
    (usually to play) that I think she might have an accident.  They act
    like diapers, so she doesn't get completely soaked from an accident. 
    During training time she just wet in them like a diaper, even though
    she was using the potty when she was in cloth underwear.  They are much
    easier to remove when they have a poopy accident...just tear it off!
    
    Carol

    When my oldest was in training, I would wake him nightly at 11:00 or so
    (whenever we went to bed) and place him on the potty.  He would stay
    dry every night that he went.  After a few weeks of this he finally
    asked me not to wake him up anymore - he didn't like it.  So I made him
    promise that if he would stay dry, I would not wake him.  We did
    however, check on him at night and wake him just enough to ask if he
    had to go.  Once he started saying no we trusted his word and he stayed
    dry every night.  My youngest was easier (and alot older).  I just put
    him in underpants one day and he never had another accident - day or
    night.  (He was also 3 yr 2 months old.)
    
    -sandy
    

    .38
    
    I found letting my son tell me when he was ready to go diaper-less
    at night worked the best. Otherwise I would've driven myself crazy
    trying to guess when he was ready. Every now and then I would ask
    him and he would say no, until one night he said he didn't want to 
    wear night diapers any more. He stays dry most of the time, and I try
    to limit the bedtime liquids (but not forbid them). Now and then I
    say "Nice job staying dry, Dan" and otherwise we don't discuss the
    matter unless he wants to. He's now 4.5, by the way.
    
    Lucy

    Well, we decided to go for the big-boy underwear _cold turkey_.  I
    admit I have no idea what I'm doing, but I let Marc wear regular
    underpants for 2 hrs. after we came home last nite.  He did OK for a
    first try (1 1/2 accidents).  I'm not sure he completely buys into
    the fact that he must use the potty all the time now.  I think he
    thinks he can just poop or pee in them any time, and I'll just
    change them like diapers.
    
    This morning, we put them on again, and I brought two extra pairs (and
    several pairs of shorts) to daycare.  I told him I was sure he could
    keep the underpants clean and dry all day, but if he peed or pooped by
    accident, here are some extra pairs.  But if he used them all up, he
    would have to wear diapers the rest of the day.  Maybe that will be
    enough motivation. 
    
    He seems to really want to wear underpants (at least until the novelty
    wears off).  He keeps checking in his shorts to make sure they're still
    there :-), he wanted to hold the extras in the car this morning, and
    he wanted to show his daycare teacher that he was wearing them.  In
    fact, I think he's more motivated at this point than I am.  I really
    want to encourage his interest, but I'm not sure what I'll do if he has
    several accidents every single day.  I'll see how it goes.
    
    Some questions... Dottie, where do you buy 5-ply cloth training pants?
    
    I told Marc he had to try and pee before we got in the car, and after
    we got to daycare.  Is it good to force him to empty his bladder
    regularly, or will that prevent it from increasing its capacity? 
    (geez, the things we have to worry about now :-))
    
    When we gave up bottles, we packed them away and never looked back. 
    Should I do the same with daytime diapers?  Or should I give it a
    certain amount of time, and then decide if he's not ready yet?  How
    long?

    re: .-1
    
>    I told Marc he had to try and pee before we got in the car, and after
>    we got to daycare.  Is it good to force him to empty his bladder
>    regularly, or will that prevent it from increasing its capacity? 
>    (geez, the things we have to worry about now :-))
    
   Well, I don't have any experience with boys - I have 3 girls - but
   with my oldest, 3.5 and recently potty trained, we still find that it
   helps to ask her occasionally if she needs to go.  For us its not a
   matter of forcing her to go, but more a matter of making sure she is
   conscious of the situation.  She's good about telling us if she
   doesn't have to go... but many times will have to go within 5-10
   minues of when we ask, so it seems to me anyway that simply making her
   aware of the possibility is enough to prompt her to notice and act.
   
   - Tom

    
    	Has anyone seen any good toilet training books that do not use cute
    language to describe body parts and body waste (pee-pee, wee-wee,
    poo-poo). I just can't abide that kind of talk (we try real hard not o
    use baby talk with Spencer) and I don't feel comfortable using that
    language to explain the toilet training process.
    
    	The most popular story (once upon a potty) is out for this exact
    reason.
    
    	If I can't find one, I think that I'm going to write and create
    Spencer's own book to teach him this.
    
    			Wendy

    I didn't use books for my kids.  Neither did I use diapers once they
    were in training pants.  I did not want to defeat the purpose of the
    training.  Nor did I want to confuse him with "it's OK to pee in
    these, but not in these".  I took much of the responsibility for making
    sure he went regularly - every hour or so I would ask if he had to go! 
    Around his usual BM time, I would ask if he's pooped yet.  When he had
    an accident I would say something like "oops we missed that one" change
    him and remind him that he needs to get to the bathroom in time or tell
    me and I will help him.  We did the M&M's and sticker routine with the
    oldest (who was definately ready but not quite in control) but not for
    the youngest (who was told he was ready at 3 and indeed did succeed).
    I always packed extra clothes in the cars we drove, at the places we
    visited regularly (church, parents, etc).  I always carried those
    Mickey Mouse pants in my purse.  We frowned on accidents, but did not
    make a big deal about them.  It was a long road, but (he's now 7) we
    did it!  And, sorry, I don't remember how long it took.  Guess those
    bad experiences do fade in time!! 8^)
    
    -sandy
    
    (We didn't use books because I didn't feel the necessity)
    

    
    Patrick (17 mos) has been giving us hints for the past month that he at
    least is interested in the potty. When he poops he goes off into a
    corner out of sight. When he's finished he climbs upstairs to the
    changing table to let us know he wants to be changed. He tries to climb
    up on the potty seat.
    
    We were thinking of getting him a little potty and seeing what happens. 
    What I'm afraid of is, this might be a short lived stage, and if he
    becomes disinterested it might make it more difficult to potty train
    him later. 
    
    What do you think?
    
    Thanks
    
    Chris
    

    RE:  .45
    
    My daughter, 21 months, is also showing a relatively early interest.
    When we urinate in the toilet she says, "I want to do that.  I want to
    go pee-pee."
    
    I'm busily borrowing/buying used potties.  I have the same question as
    .45.
    
    L
    

    Chris...take a que from the kid.  If he seems interested, by all means
    work with him.  My second child was the same - a little interest, but
    we weren't sure where it would go.  After many disasters, he begged to
    go back into diapers.  We put him in diapers for about 9 more months
    and viola - one day I told him he was dry for "the whole time" (a half
    hour while sitting on the counter waiting for me to diaper him) and he
    must be potty trained.  sure enough - no more diapers and NO accidents. 
    Now I know it doesn't work this way with all kids, but if Patrick is
    interested, by all means let him test out his curiosity.  He'll let you
    know if it's right for him.
    
    -sandy
    

re .43 - I didn't like the words used in _Once_Upon_a_Potty either, but I
liked everything else about the book.  So I bought it and got out my trusty
"Sharpie" pen (made by Sanford) which writes on *anything*, even glossy
board-books or photographs.  Their cutesy words thus became our cutesy words
:-) .  Though Alex certainly couldn't read at that point, she sometimes asked
about the handwritten words; I just explained that we don't use those (excised)
words in our family. No problem!

Leslie

    RE .43 - I agree with Leslie.  I liked the "Once Upon A Potty" book
    best, but wasn't entirely comfortable with their terminology :^), so
    I just used my own words (I wasn't clever enough to actually write
    them in the book, so I'm sure the sitter read the actual text when
    she read it).  I've found this book to atleast address the issue of
    what body parts are involved, which most other potty books don't
    even touch.
    
    					Mair
    

    I bought a potty seat for Christopher, when he was 18 months. We left
    it in the bathroom, and figured he'd get use to seeing it around for
    awhile. Then we started putting him on it before his bath every night.
    He eventually started going in it before his bath. 
    
    Now, sometimes, he lets us know when he has to go potty, but it 
    isn't that often. He is only 22 months, so we aren't in a hurry.
    We figure he will learn at his own pace. 
    
    This morning, he was trying to push his diaper down, so I asked
    him if he needed to go potty. He responded yes, so we sat him
    down on it, and sure enough he went quite a bit. Then I noticed
    that his diaper was completely dry from the whole night of sleeping.
    
    I figure, we are getting there slowly. I was so excited that I called
    my mother and woke her up!!! The things that excite parents! :^) It's
    so fun!!! 
    
    Another thing I did this past weekend: We were in the kiddie pool,
    and the diaper was 5 times the usual size due to the water, so I
    figured it couldn't hurt to take it off and let him run around in
    just his shorts for the pool time. He thought that was great, and
    afterwards when I tried to put dry clothes on him, he didn't want
    the diaper on. I just told him, that when he could go potty and
    wear big boy pants, that then he wouldn't have to wear diapers.
    
    -Sheila
    

    Sheila,
    
    That's great that Chris will tell you when he has to go,
    even if it's only once in awhile.
    
    Steven (2yrs. 8mos) hasn't gotten the hang of telling us
    WHEN he has to go, but if WE ask him, he will "produce"
    every time.
    
    We're getting there...VERY slowly.  Some days are better 
    than others (he kept his potty pants dry last night and went 
    on the potty 6 times)...then other days he just flat out refuses.
    
    Linda

    
    Thanks for the input. I was especially happy to hear about Sandy's
    child, trying it , giving it up, and then coming back to it later.
    I guess we don't have anything to lose. I would never try and push him.
    
    He already tells us when he wants something to eat, drink, has to be
    changed, wants to go to sleep, outside, etc. Maybe he's thinking about
    letting us know when he wants to go potty.
    
    We'll get him a potty and give it a shot.
    
    Chris
    

    Chris also tells us after he's gone "poopers". He will go, and then
    come over to us, pat his bottom and say "poopers". We then ask him
    if he needs a new diaper and he tells us "Yeh".
    
    -Sheila
    

    Gina's very interested in not wearing diapers, but she really acts
    scared about sitting on the potty or toilet.  We have only had one
    successful episode, and she is 26 months old.
    
    Last night she told me she didn't want to wear her diaper.  I said,
    okay, then go in the potty.  She said, "No, Mommy."  I asked her where
    she would go and she said, "On the floor, Mommy."
    
    I'm such a dunce.
    
    judy

    My son Shane, who will be two on Monday (my goodness how time flies!)
    has used his potty chair successfully a few times.  He constantly tells
    me he has to go potty and tries to pull his pants and diaper off.  I
    put him on and most of the time he just sits there for a while then
    hops off and says, "done" and there's nothing in the potty.  The other
    day the same thing happened and then he didn't want me to put his
    diaper back on.  I, like a few previous noters, told him that when he
    no longer made poopies or pee pees in his diaper, then he didn't have
    to wear them any more.  He also "has" to follow me into the bathroom
    every time and insists on flushing the toilet when I'm done.  I don't
    think he'll ever have the fear of flushing after he's done.
    
    Lori B.
    
    As a side note....Why do people put disposable diapers on babies if
    they're going to take them swimming?  Isn't the whole idea of a diaper
    to keep the child dry?  If the diaper is used to keep the poops from
    going in the pool, then I can understand it, but use a cloth diaper,
    that way the child is not being weighted down by the excess water that
    the disposables absorb (which can be very dangerous).  Also, the jelly 
    that's used in the disposable diapers are very harmful to the pool
    filter.
    

    >but use a cloth diaper, that way the child is not being weighted down
    >by the excess water that the disposables absorb (which can be very
    >dangerous).  Also, the jelly  that's used in the disposable diapers are
    >very harmful to the pool filter.
    
    Most people don't know the latter fact, and some of us, being
    slower than others, don't realize the former until we find
    ourselves soaking up the ocean in Luvs...
    
    --bonnie

    My method was to use a cloth diaper, no plastic pants though and put a
    onsie over that, then the bathing suit.  That way you solved the
    problem of sun on tender skin, and no problem with disposables. 
    Sometimes I would use only the onsie, without the diaper if I could be
    sure there would be no "Poopie" done while swimming.  A variation would
    be the onsie with plastic pants over that, then the suit.... see which
    one works for you.
    
    Lyn

    As per the instructions at my health club, I use rubber pants under the
    bathing suit, with no diaper at all.  They said it will contain all
    solids and most urine.  They said the chlorine would take care of any
    bacteria in the urine.  
    
    Just be sure to remove the rubber pants as soon as the child leaves the
    pool.  They are clammy, cold or hot, and of course very uncomfortable
    when you leave the water.  As long as the child is playing in the
    water, there will be a small water movement under the pants.
    
    L
    

Rubber pants against the skin .... somehow I sense this might be a bit
uncomfortable! ... and that elastic on the rubber pants can be irritating, too.

We bought light-weight terry cloth training pants, knowing the urine will
probably pass through or be rinsed out while playing in the pool.  I, too,
tried rubber pants for 2-3 times (initially) until Jim said "Dottie, think
about this, if the training pants are soaked through, with the rubber
pants over them, just how much benefit are the rubber pants? ... perhaps
to contain a BM, AT BEST!"   And we found good-fitting training pants
keeps it pretty contained.  You can also buy paper diaper liners to put
in the training pants to make "clean up" a tadbit easier (we did that, too).

I think kids tend to urinate in the pool more than BM in the pool.

Dottie

    
    Well I decided that Shannon (2yr 9mo) was ready to wear underwear to bed at
    night, and she has been pretty much dry for almost a week.  My
    follow-up questions is...is it normal for them to have a little bit of
    leakage during the night?  She has a VERY full bladder when she wakes
    in the morning, but her underwear is just the slightest bit damp and
    smells faintly of urine.  I am just wondering if this is normal or if
    she has a weak bladder?
    
    Carol

My son has just begun potty training and he's doing quite well.  We're 
going on vacation in a couple of weeks and I'm wondering if/how that will 
affect the training.

So far, Daniel is able to tell just before he has to pee, then he runs to 
the potty and goes.  Once in a while, he's a little too late in getting to 
the potty.  So I'm pretty sure that he hasn't yet learned to anticipate a 
full bladder. 

How do we handle potty training on the road?  We won't be able to pull off 
the road to a rest area as quickly as he's been running to our potty.

We plan to ask him if he has to go before we get in the car, and we plan on 
making a stop or two (it's about a 3 hour drive to our destination), but 
timing will be everything...Currently, if we ask him to try to go before we 
    get in the car, he refuses; we can't make him sit on the potty if he 
    doesn't have to go, can we?

What can we do to keep the booster seat dry in case of an accident?  Line 
it with a trash bag?  

Also, I'm not sure how Daniel will react to strange toilets.  He's OK 
going on toilets in his grandparents' houses, but he's always been afraid 
to go into rest room stalls with me - I think because he feels closed in.

Any hints about how to handle potty training on vacation is appreciated!

Thanks,

Sheryl
    
                 

    first, for the booster seat, I'd put something washable next to his
    skin.  My method might  be to line it, as you said with a trash bag but
    put a bath towel over the plastic.
    
    If his "sudden urges" are for urinating there are a couple ways to
    handle it.  Toys R Us sells a small bucket contraption with a handle
    and it's called somethign like portapotty.  Or if you know someone who
    can get one of the hospital urinals, it's the same principal.  Now some
    people may take exception to this, but there's always the obvious which
    is to pull off to the side of the road and allow him to "water a tree". 
    No, it's not a great idea nor something to make a regular habit of, but
    can it be any worse than a urine soaked car?
    
    I can't really offer any ideas on BM's, except to ask him if he can
    "hold on" (that's the phrase we use) til we get to a gas station.
    Maybe carry a toilet seat insert ring in the car, to help the rest room
    stall anxiety, and maybe even stay in the stall with him for
    reassurance.
    
    Lyn

    
    
    Can you start potty training a child too young?
    
    This is not my business on how this couple should raise
    their child, nor am I trying to change things. I guess I
    am just curious if potty training too early effect
    the childs disposition?   
    
    At daycare there is a little girl who I think her parents
    are pushing her to grow up to early.  They started to potty
    train her at 15-16 months old.  Her mother would make a big
    deal about the fact that her daughter used the potty the
    night before.   My child is pretty regular - we usually know
    what time he is going to go, but he is just 12 months old
    and I am not even thinking about this stage yet.  If I really
    wanted to put him on the pot at 6:00 PM - he probably would
    produce something.
    
    The problem is that the child has really turned into a mean
    little person.  She hits the other kids and can be very 
    disagreeable.   My daycare person thinks that they are putting
    too much stress on the little girl and has tried to talk to
    the parents.  Yesterday the little girl had an "accident" on
    the livingroom couch (they send her now with no diapers, she
    is 19 months old) soaking the cushion etc.   
    
    There is nothing I can do about this situation.  But if there
    is a problem with starting this too early, maybe it will help
    others who read this note when to decide the time is right.
    Most of the noters have mentioned their children are at least
    2 years of age.
    
    Jeanne
    
    
      

I think you can potty train a kid too young, but the hitting and disagreeble
traits are not necessarily the result of potty training pressure.  It's pretty
common for kids about 18-30 months old to become somewhat, shall we say,
opinionated and assertive.

I've also heard many people brag that their children (now grown) were potty
trained by 18 months.  The technique was that the kid sat there until s/he
produced something.  I once saw a picture of a 2 year old asleep on his potty
chair.

The current popular technique is to wait until the kid is "ready".  There
have been notes about it in the last 6 months or so....


Pat

    To be potty trained, the child must:
    
    * Be able to tell that the bladder or colon is full.
    * Be able to tell the parent or caretaker.
    * Have enough muscular control to hold it in for at least a short 
    period.
    * Optimally, be able to remove his/her clothes.
    
    (Common sense when you think about, yes?)
    
    That's a pretty tall order for kids under 2.
    
    My daughter will often pee on the potty or toilet if i give her the
    opportunity.  But she rarely tells me that she needs to go.  I'm
    figuring on diapers for some time to come.
    
    My Mom always talks about how she toilet trained us.  In the Fifties,
    they had the kids sit - and sit - and sit.  Of course they had no
    choice of disposable diapers.  Travelling was really a drag.  They
    actually washed diaper in the hotel sink.  ugh.
    
    I think we tend to wait now because so many of us use disposables, and
    because of the impact of Freudian thinking.  We also don't want to be
    unnecessarily demanding with your kids.  All good reasons.
    
    On the other hand, I think many kids could toilet train earlier with
    just a little parental encouragement.
    
    But in response to the original question, yes I think it is
    unreasonable to demand toilet training of a 1 1/2 year old child. 
    Maybe the teacher is on to something.  How would you react if your
    authority figures demanded that you do something you simply cannot do,
    then embarassed you for failing?  It's only human to get stressed.
    
    L
    

    
    
    My son wasen't Fully potty trained untill after he was three.  He would
    pee on the potty ok but would poop his pants all the time.  I finally
    started to keep track of when he needed to go and got him on a routine. 
    I did seem the more upset I got the worse he did.  I finaly just left
    him alone and he started to get the idea.  He was praised quite offten
    if he made it to the potty on time.  He is 3.5 now and only has
    accidents if he has too much to drink before bed time or is *realy*
    involved in his playing.  
    	As to how young one should be started, it all depends on how long
    it take them to decide they don't want that wet, dirty diaper on
    anymore.  :-)))

  Every child is different.  I potty trained my daughter over the Thanksgiving
Holidays last year.  She was 2 years and 2 months old.  I believe she was
ready before that time, but I wasn't.  I had tried half-hearted attempts at
potty training her before this time, but I wasn't consistent in my efforts.
She was wearing pull-ups and would go to the bathroom and change her pull-ups
whenever she messed them up so I felt that the time had come.
  Finally I just decided that we would spend a four day weekend working on
getting her potty trained.  So out came the panties and up went the diapers.
I know that I must have asked her at least every 30 minutes if she had to
go potty.  The biggest thing was going out in public with no protection.
She did great, but I was very nervous.  I remember asking her if she needed
to go potty while we were in the mall.  She said "yes" and I ran tons of 
people down in a mad search for the nearest rest room the whole time saying
over and over.. "Hang on Tori, can you hold it for Moma? We're almost there!"
We started the dedicated training on Thursday and Sunday was the very first
day that she went all day without and accident.  When I took her to daycare
Monday she went wearing panties and carrying an extra set of clothing just in
case.  I told her teacher that she was potty trained and that she needed to
ask Tori periodically if she needed to go potty.  When I picked her up
that afternoon she was still wearing her original cloths and was nice and
dry.
  It took a couple of more months before she was potty trained through the
night.  It helped matters alot when we moved her into a real bed so that she
could get up and go to the bathroom when she needed to go.  One thing about
kids is that when they gotta go they gotta go.

Lisa

    
    
    	On the flip side, we're really having a tough time trying to potty
    train my daughter (almost 3). She has re-occurring urinary tract
    infections, and it hurts her to urinate. Obviously, she tries to hold
    it until she just can't hold it anymore....:(
    
    	i don't feel we'll really be able to potty train her until she gets
    these infections straightened out. I've pretty much resigned myself to
    the fact that diapers will be in my life for a long time to come.
    
    	
    					jim s.

    Curious about how you handle night-time.  My son was potty-trained in
    December.  He has never had an accident during the day, even during
    nap-time (he takes 2-3 hour naps).  I usually put a diaper on him at
    night, but 99% of the time he is dry. The few times he wasn't dry, he
    was absolutely soaked, right through the diaper, and never woke up
    (very sound sleeper).  Probably a good time to try him without the
    diaper?  He doesn't argue about the diaper, takes it very
    matter-of-factly, and we never suggested a diaper was for babies, so I
    think he considers it part of his pajamas. If I try to put a diaper on
    him during nap time, I get a real argument since it isn't part of the
    "plan".  He's 2.5 years old.
    Sarah 

  Well Tori will be 3 in October and she very rarily has a night time accident,
and when she does it's usually in route to the bathroom.  The simple fact of
the matter is that children will have occasional accidents.  Since your child
is dry 99% of the time at night I would suggest doing away with the diapers all
together. Especially since you say when your child does have the occasional 
accident he is soaked even with the diaper, so why bother.

  Just make sure you have a water proof mattress protector on his bed
for the occasional accident.  You might also want to make sure he goes to the
potty right before bedtime and doesn't have too much to drink before bedtime.

  I consider 99% dry to be potty trained.  Of course that is just my opinion.

Lisa

    
    
    	My mother always says you never seen a teenager wearing a diaper
    	so I guess they all figure it out.. - :)
    
    	

    How do you know when you should start night-time training?  
    
    I had no idea when to start daytime training either, since Marc showed
    no signs of being ready.  About a month ago, he said he wanted to wear
    underpants.  His daycare teacher was willing to clean up poopy
    underpants, so we went for it cold-turkey.  After a few days of
    disasters, we were done.  He only has an occasional accident (maybe
    once a week, or less), sometimes these are during naps.
    
    Now, what do I do about nightime?  He wears a diaper at night, and most
    mornings, it's somewhat wet, but not soaked.  This past weekend, he was
    apparently awake for a while before calling me, and took the
    opportunity to pee and poop in the diaper.  When I asked him why he
    didn't tell me he had to go, he said "but it's OK to poop in my diaper,
    right mom?"  
    
    Is there some developmental stage they have to get to in order for
    their bodies to hold it all night?  Do people wake their kids up to go
    to the bathroom before the parents go to sleep?  Or should I just wait
    until he decides he wants to wear underpants at night also?

RE: .72
  
    Well I think it's your call.  You could always take the night time diaper
away for a few days and see how it goes.  The important thing to note is
that if it doesn't work out then don't worry about it, just wait a couple of
months and try again.

  My daughter doesn't necessarily "hold it" all night long.  It is not unusual 
for her to get up in the middle of the night and go potty.  I leave a light on
in the bathroom for just this purpose.

  But then again my daughter has a strong independence streak and it is not
uncommon for her to tell me to "go away and shut the door" while she is on
the potty.  And heaven forbide if I should flush the toilet for her!
"I'll Do It!" has become the phrase of the day in my household.

  I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told that it is 
easier for little girl to control their bladders than little boys.

Lisa

    I woke my sons before I went to bed each night until they asked not to
    be waked anymore.  They are 5 and 7 now and have been getting up on
    their own to go during the night.  Now if I could just get them to open
    their eyes and aim.....
    
    -sandy
    

    Sandy,
    I know what you mean.  My son hasn't wet himself in months.  but he
    does have that "aim" problem.  I have to leave the lid up or he will
    totaly miss.  Maybe that is where men get that terrible habbit of
    leaving the seat up.
    
    Virginia

    I have a comical story to tell.  My daughter Lauren was learning how to
    use the potty.  The only way I could get her remotely interested was by
    letting her in when her brother (Joey) was going.  Well, Joey learned
    from one of those potty chairs that sit on the toilet so he generally
    sits down when he goes.  Finally Lauren learns to go on the potty.  I
    was watching her one day and noticed that she kept putting her hand
    down there and pushing.  I asked her what she was doing and she replied
    "this is what Joey does!" I laughed so hard and told her that she
    didn't have to do that because she didn't have what Joey had!  It was
    funny at the time!

    re. 71 'you never see a teenager wearing a diaper'.  Put the emphacis
    on the word SEE.  I can't imagine a teenager who wet the bed doing
    anything to call attention to it, in fact I would bet he/she would
    go to endless lengths to hide the issue.
    
    My son Matt at five years old wets the bed maybe half the time. 
    We do not make a big issue of it... HE decides whether to wear
    diaper pants each night, but he does 'help' with the laundry
    if he doesn't wear the pants and does wet.
    
    Any ideas on how to help him with this?
    
    Jeff

    RE:  -1
    
    See note 104 to discuss bed wetting by five year old children:
    
    104   AIMHI::CONNOR       11-MAY-1992    20  5 1/2 YEAR OLD WETTING
    						 THE BED AND PANTS???
    
    Please discuss this question at note 104.
    
    Thanks,
    
    L
    co-mod

    My 2.5-year old daughter decided that she wants to use the potty now.
    
    My problem is that she picks the most inconvenient times possible to
    ask to go potty (like when we're walking out the door to go to her
    sitter's house in the morning).  After taking off her coat and mittens
    and putting her on the potty, sometimes she goes and sometimes she
    doesn't.  I've been late for work several mornings because of potty
    patrol!
    
    I want to honor her requests and teach her that she can trust me to
    help her get to the potty when it's time, but I'm beginning to think
    that it's her new game.  "If I say potty, mommy drops everything she is
    doing and gives me her undivided attention."
    
    How can you tell when they really "hafta go" vs. "let's play potty?"
    
    --Ruth

    My third son will be 4 at the end of April.  The two oldest potty
    trained when they were a little over the age of three with no problems
    (they decided they were ready...).  Tim (the youngest) has NO interest
    in training AT ALL.  For awhile he wanted to wear underpants so I
    thought that "this was it".  Well, he wore them and never had an
    accident.  But - he would let us know when he had to pee and insist
    that we put a diaper on him.  If we tried putting him on the potty
    chair he would flip out.  He also began "holding" his poops.  In
    speaking to the pedi he said to put him back into diapers and let him
    tell us when he was ready.  This was about 5-6 months ago.  We've tried
    the "Star Chart" idea, reward system, etc.  He wants nothing to do with
    anything.
    
    So, are there any suggestions out there?  I'm so used to changing
    diapers that I can live with it for awhile more but how long can this
    go on?  I don't want to pressure him but am concerned that he is SO
    against the idea of using the toilet.  He's too big now for a regular
    potty chair, could easily stand for pee and we have an insert with
    steps when he has to sit on the toilet.  He wears underwear to
    preschool two mornings a week with no problem - he's fascinated by the
    "hole" in the underpants but everytime I see if he wants to see what
    the "hole" is used for he says no.
    
    Thanks for any advice (or reassurance that he will NOT be in diapers at
    the age of 10 - of course, by then he can change himself ;>)!)
    
    Linda

    Linda,
    
    Sorry, I meant to reply to your note ages ago...
    
    My son, now 5, has two male friends who didn't really stop using
    diapers in the daytime until they were 4. In both cases the parents
    finally got frustrated and made the boys "cold turkey" it. In one
    case the parents took the child out of preschool and told him that
    it was time to give up diapers and that he could go back to school
    when he was reliably using the toilet. They knew he was ready because
    he had been dry at night for a long time, but wet his pants in the
    daytime if they didn't use diapers. They figured it was some kind of
    control struggle, not a case of immaturity. With their pediatrician's
    support they took this fairly drastic action and it worked in a week.
    This boy (very bright and strong willed) did what they asked and hasn't
    had any problems since.
    
    The other child just seemed to be lazy. As long as his parents were
    willing to change him, he was happy to keep using diapers. His mother,
    who was pregnant with her second, said "No more!" and put him in
    underpants, come hell or high water (!). Within two weeks he was using
    the toilet reliably. This boy is still highly unreliable at night, at
    5, but fine in the daytime.
    
    I know both these families well and they thought the problem out
    thoroughly before deciding to go with the cold-turkey method, and both
    cases turned out fine from what I can tell. Good luck to you.
    
    Lucy

Just a quick thank-you to those who suggested we try Patrick with a potty seat.
We got him one about 6 weeks ago. The routine was to put him on it before his
bath. After about five or six tries he went peeps. We gave him lots of praise,
of course. After that he was able to pee every time we put him on the pot.
Yesterday, before we put him down for a nap, he signed 'sit on potty'. We put 
him on it and he went! 

Chris

    Warning: don't read this while you're eating!!! ;^)
    
    
    Scanned all 82 previous replies, but noticed nothing addressing this
    question: How do you teach your kid(s) to wipe their own butt? 
    
    Nick's almost 3 1/2, and has been toilet trained for more than 1 year,
    but still hasn't learned how to wipe himself. Until recently, he's
    always asked one of us, or his daycare teacher, for help. Lately,
    though, he'll finish his business, flush, pull up his pants and
    consider himself done. If we 'catch him in the act', he'll reluctantly
    let one of us wipe him, but would just as soon not be bothered. If
    we don't happen to be there, we typically find evidence later (i.e. 
    the dreaded 'monkey stripes') that he 'forgot'. 
    
    Anyone have any tips/suggestions or anecdotes to share?
    
    Thanks in advance, as always.
    
    Freddie
    
    	

    Maybe you could get him interested in the toilet paper?
    
    Sounds funny, but there is one brand that has dinosaurs
    (and other kid's prints), Coronet comes to mind.
    
    Anyhow, Steven was thrilled when his aunt bought him 
    his own toilet paper when he first started potty training.
    
    Who knows?  It might work.
    
    	Good luck!  We were doing okay in this department until
    	one day Steven didn't do a good job wiping and now refuses
    	to do it without our assistance, at the risk that he won't
    	do it good enough...someday this will all be a distant memory,
    	right?  :-)
    
    	Linda

    Freddie,
    
    Re: not reading this while you're eating -- hey, we parents are a tough
    bunch! It takes a lot more than this to turn my stomach nowadays...!  
    
    Anyway, I'm afraid that this may be just one more of those things you
    have to deal with over and over and over. It wasn't til my son was
    nearly 5 that he would wipe himself reliably (i.e. every time, fairly
    competently). I still remind him to wash hands with soap - and now he's
    good about that too. 
    
    My latest question is when will he develop better aim when peeing??!
    (If the answer is "when he's 21", forget I asked.)
    
    Lucy 
    

>My latest question is when will he develop better aim when peeing??!

Lucy....you haven't been in a Men's room in a bar, during a concert or
sporting event lately...have you?  ;->

Hamp

    re: .84
    
    Linda,
    
    unfortunately, he gets *too* interested in the toilet paper at times.
    ("Let's see...what happens if I spin the roll *this* way"...or "How
    much paper can I put in the water?"...:^)
    
    Re: .85
    
    Lucy,
    
    .86 beat me to the punch. If you were to ask my wife, she'd say that 
    Nick has better aim than I do! 
    
    Freddie

Re. .85
    
>    My latest question is when will he develop better aim when peeing??!
>    (If the answer is "when he's 21", forget I asked.)

We'll the 14 year old seems pretty good but the 12 year old has a firehose ;-)

ccb 

    Your concerns over hygiene are shared, fer shure!  I have declared the
    bathroom as mens territory, and I will only use it after they clean it.
    This means if I have to use the toilet and I don't like the condition
    it's in, I grab the nearest male (husband, 2 sons) and tell them to
    clean it and hurry!  I told my husband that if he wasn't going to
    "teach" the byos better aim, then it's his job to teach them to clean
    up.  
    
    I have one meticulous wiper (long arms) and one not (short arms).  I
    think for some, it's in the reach.  I have a deal with my shortarmed
    kid: if he has "dirty underpants" when he gets home, no computer games
    that night.  I do not check on his response, I let him tell me the
    truth.  So far he has been very honest and open to me.  All I do is ask
    "Can you play computer tonight?" and he will respond with a yes or no. 
    His father knows the "code" but doesn't let him know, and his brother
    is in the dark.
    
    I have a friend with a 10-year old girl who still has trouble in this
    department.
    
    UGH!
    
    -sandy
    

    I may be sticking my neck out on this one, but for the *wiping* problem
    as well as the AIM problem I made a very clear statement...
    
    That is a DAD (= MALE) problem.  You go talk to him MAN to MAN!!
    
    I've just sort of been wiping AJ (he's just turned 6) just for the sake
    of knowing he's wiped clean.  Dad, over the last couple weeks, has been
    just giving him the t-paper and sort of supervising.  I guess I just
    have to confess I just don't have the patience.
    
    FWIW, he still has an occational "poop" accident, usually it's because
    he gets so wrapped up in what he's doing he won't stop to use the
    bathroom.  He's had his "aim" pretty well controlled for some time now. 
    It's the BIG kid (i'm married to) who can't aim that well!
    
    Lyn
    (who hates being the minority gender in my house!!)

    Loni is nearly potty trained!!  Yay for Loni!  Today we'll make a
    special shopping expedition to buy her underwear.
    
    Question:  Loni sleeps on a mattress on the carpeted floor.  She often
    rolls off to the floor in her sleep.  Before she stops wearing a diaper
    at night, I'd like to purchase a cleaning agent to have on hand just in
    case she wets the carpet.  We live in a rented apartment and don't want
    to damage the floor.
    
    What should I do if she wets the floor, after blotting it up with a
    towel?
    
    Laura
    

    It appears Samantha is getting set to be potty trained.  She turned 2
    on Saturday and got up and said she wanted to go on the potty!  That's
    quite normal because on her 1st birthday she decided it was time to
    walk.....:-)
    
    We didn't get Anthony potty trained until almost 3.  Hopefully it
    really is true that girls are easier than boys.
    
    Dave

re: .91

Have you considered putting something waterproof on the floor?  I am NOT 
talking about anything that could constitute a suffocation hazard, but the 
rubber backed crib pads come to mind.

re: .92

It did turn out that way for us.  Our daughter was potty trained about 1.5 
years earlier than our son.

Clay 

    You call a local carpet cleaning business near you and ask them
    what to use.  They'll probably try to sell you their brand, but
    if it works....!  We have our carpets and furniture cleaned just
    about every year and we use their spot remover between cleanings.
    Works like a charm and doesn't cost too much either.
    
    Conni

    My daughter is 18+ months old.  I think she will be ready sometime in
    the next few months to start potty training.  I was wondering if I
    should get an insert for the toilet or a seperate potty.
    
    At her daycare center they have smaller than normal size toilets and
    they use an insert.  I don't think her feet would touch the ground.
    Should I also get an insert so she has the same type of thing at both
    school and at home for the sake on consistency?  If I get an insert
    should I get a stool so she has something to put her feet on?  She is
    very independent so I think she would like it if she can get herself on
    whatever I get.
    
    Carol

    
    re: .95
    
    The Fisher-Price potty comes apart so that the top can fit on a
    normal toilet.  The base can then be turned over and used as
    a step stool.  And then, of course, you can use it as a stand-alone
    children's potty, too.   You could buy one unit and then figure
    out what will work best for your daughter.  
    
    Carol

    We also have the Fisher-Price potty and are very happy with it.
    At 3:00 Gina uses the top unit in the toilet and we use the base
    as the step stool so she can wash her hands.
    
    I also sit on the base to read while she bathes.
    
    judy

Me too...We really like the Fisher Price Potty - Samantha won't sit on
it as a stand alone ... she wants to be a big girl so we put it on the potty
...and she now use the base to stand on and brush her teeth and wash her
hands....

    We've used the base as a stool more in the last 3 1/2 yrs. than we ever
    used other pieces. The removable bowl is great as a tub toy :-)
    

Ok, I've just read all 99 replies, and didn't find any discussion on this!

Do boys tend to learn how to pee in the potty sitting down or standing up?
My guess would be sitting, at first.  If this is the case, how long
before they stand?

If they do pee standing, wouldn't using the seat insert on the toilet cause
a problem, since they'd have to stand on the step stool?  Since I have
a small bathroom, I like the idea of the seat insert rather than the separate
potty, but am not sure how realistic this is for a boy.

Sawyer does like to pee standing up in the bathtub, but I haven't yet done
more than 'think' about potty training.  So far he has not shown any of
the 'ready' signs.  He's 2 years 1 month.  I'm not in any rush, but
I have begun thinking about what would be the best equipment to buy.

Ginny

    Eric didn't pee standing until around 3 years old.  He wasn't
    tall enough to reach the potty before that.  I have a boy and a 
    girl.  I use seat insert with my daughter, who is 2.10 years old.  
    Eric will remove the seat insert when he needs to pee and put it back 
    when he is done.  And Eric still uses seat insert when he has a BM.
    Eric will be 5 next week. 
    
    Wendy

    Neither of my kids liked the insert - we used the potty seat (sitting)
    until they discovered their little legs brought them up over the edge
    of the bowl.  Now the whole bathroom is a URINAL!  I have three men in
    the house and all I want is my own toilet - one that smells pretty -
    and isn't spotted - or doesn't have toothpaste on the mirror - or on
    the silk flowers near the sink - or the little dixie cups doing the old
    "champagne glass" demo - or magazines on the floor - or wet towels
    hanging everywhere - or - or !! 8^)
    
    -sandy
    

or-or underwear drying on the shower rod, or useful space on the vanity wear
the pot of dead flowers are, or towels without large pick flowers, or or  


;-) michael

re: .102

Do they leave the seat up?

Clay

    Ryan was bowel trained before age 2. Bladder training came at 2 yrs. 9
    months, and he preferred standing on a stool rather than sitting. Still
    does, but doesn't need the stool to stand on now.  He's been trained to
    put the seat down when he's done!
    

    Yes, Clay, they do.  However, I do not require that they put it down. 
    I am, after all, a mother of the nineties - and outvoted!!  I have
    learned to check.  I grew up in a house of 4 females, 1 male and dad
    had to put the seat down.  I figure I'm in the minority here.
    
    -sandy
    

Don't feel bad...I got outvoted on everything.

4 older sisters, my mother, my grandmother, and me....one bathroom!

Michael

    I know how Sandy feels even though I have two males in my house (my
    husband and my 3.8 yr old son).  But they both know to put the seat down
    when finished using it.  Alex found out one day when he needed to do a
    BM and fell in the toilet.
    
    Alex has been trained since he was 2.5 yrs and first started out
    sitting to pee and then noticed the rest of the boys at daycare were
    standing so he figured he would give it a try and liked it and has been
    doing it since.  Alex was very easy to train since his daycare provider
    helped out alot and he had three older boys to learn from at daycare
    also and my husband helped out alot also.
    
    Liz

    Both my boys learned standing .... they were just tall enough (long
    legs!), and it never occurred to me to teach them "sitting".  Also, on
    occassion when they're sitting for a BM, and they had to pee, they'd
    sometimes squirt out between the seat and the bowl, soaking their
    pants.  
    
    And yes, they put the seat down - after each of them fell in once, they
    decided it was well worth it.  Actually, they never let GO of the sit. 
    Run in, pull it out with one hand, hold the seat up with the other,
    pee, drop the seat (well yah, each of them has pinched themselves
    too!), wipe up, stuff it back inside and back to playing.  AIM is
    something that they could work on, but I'm told that that's a hazard of
    having males.  They do wipe up if they "miss".  Usually (-:
    
    For this, I'd rather have had girls (-:

Make sure if he sits that he points his penis (with his hand) down into
the toilet bowl.  This will prevent the "soaking the pants" accidents.

Evan is 5 and pees both ways now, depending on his mood.  He started by
sitting down.  When he got taller and better skilled then we asked a male
friend or two to demonstrate his other alternative.  :-)

       Carol

    back to the original question (.100) we too have a small bathroom and
    bought  a thing called "Baby Loo" at ToysRUs, it's a combination of
    seat insert attached to a two step stepladder, made of red and blue
    plastic.  When not in use is folds fairly flat, say just small enough
    to fit between the wall and the toilet tank.  For us it was a wonderful
    idea!
    
    In myt house I am the minority, and both "boys" have a chauvanistic
    attitude, my problem is getting them to put the seat UP! not down. and 
    that wouldn't bee too bad if they would just remember to wipe the seat,
    and floor if that's the target! (grrrr!! I HATE sitting on a wet slimey
    seat!)  Washing the toilet, the seat and the surrounding floor has
    become a daily ritual for us!  as if I haven't got enough to do in the
    morning!  Oh and then there's the husband who isn't satisfied unless
    he's monopolated the bathroom at "peak rush hour" for at least a half
    hour in the morning!  (and who said women spend enormous amounts of
    time in the bathroom?) ;-) !!
    
    Lyn

    Let me first explain about mom. She's an optomist and told us
    that she started training at 8 months, because, she said, I was
    extremely regular. (now how does one draw a face with a look of 
    slight sheepishness and a hint of embarrassment here?).
    Seeing as our little 15 month old Charlotte is in the very regular
    habit of peeing on the bathroom rug just before she gets put into the 
    bathtub, we decided to try it.
    Went out, bought the FisherPrice potty (mom says "nice, but where's the 
    seat belt. I always had a seat belt for you guys." She's got a point
    
    Just the other day we tried it. Usually, at bath time, we take her
    clothes off right by the tub as daddy is filling it, and mommy pulls
    her stuff off. The last step she does by ripping open the velcro on the 
    diaper covers lifting a leg slightly so that we can pull the diaper and 
    cover from between her feet. She usually then proceeds to look down, 
    pee on the rug, then stand on it and laugh.
    Well, this time we grabbed her and put her on the seat, thinking we had
    the situation in hand. Alan even tried to make her hands wet so that
    she gets the "feeling" ("works for me!" says Alan). She just sort of
    squirmed, and her legs didn't quite sit on the floor so it was awkward
    for her. She managed to squirm off, turn around, look into the bowl,
    laugh, and pee'd on the carpet again.
    Oh well, the joys of parenthood 8-).
    
    Monica 

    If it is any doubtful consolation, Monica, my Ilona is almost 3,
    completely potty trained (considering her age), and peed twice on the
    front step of our new home.
    
    Laura

    Monica-
    
    My MIL gave me a tip for helping w/ potty training....She always runs
    the water in the faucet...Seems like the sound of water running gets
    their own little bodies to produce too! While it sounds like a little
    bit of a game with Charlotte, maybe there is some linkage with the
    sound of the water running in the bathtub? I'd try sitting her on the
    potty before running the water for the tub and see how that works...
    Couldn't hurt.
    
    Just my 2 cents.
    
    Lisa

    In my previous reply, I forgot a charming habit Ilona used to have at
    about 18 months.  She would squat in the bath and pee, looking quite
    delighted.  
    
    Just keep repeating, "You must go potty before you get in the bath."  
    
    After the first time she pees in the potty, of course you will show
    your delight.  After that, I'd consider showing disgust for her
    peeing on the carpet.   I let Ilona know that some of her habits are
    disgusting.  She stops them fast enough.  Disgust is an elemental human
    emotion that kids understand.
    
    Laura

    Tried Daniel, 20 months, on the potty for the first time last night.
    First of all he refused to sit on it, wanted to stand up, must be
    from going to the toilet with his dad.   I waited two hours and still
    nothing, just as soon as I gave up he peeed on his diaper, just as
    I putting it on, I know it could have been worse, he could have got
    me.   I will try turning on the water this evening, to get results.
    
    
    
    Bernie

    
    What worked for us in getting Russell interested was the tape "Once
    Upon A Potty".  It comes gender specific  - there's one for boys and
    one for girls.  A couple of days after constant review of the tape by
    Russell, he decided he wanted to do like Joshua.  Within a 2 week span
    we went from not wanting anything to do with the potty to using it just
    about all the time.  Of course, if mommy hears "the Potty Song" one
    more time she'll scream but hey, it seems to be working....
    
    marianne

    I have a few questions.  My son, Shane, was 3 in July.  He's still not
    completely potty trained yet.  He only wears diapers while he's
    sleeping, but he still has an occasional accident.  Yesterday while at
    his sitter's, he wet his pants.  The sitter got very angry at him and
    yelled at him and from what he says, she smacked on his head (I didn't
    see it, he said she did, he's 3, I have to believe him).  My questions
    are: 1. Is it so unusual that a child this age is not fully potty trained
    yet?  2. When he has an accident, should he be scolded in this respect
    or should it be handled differently?  3. If the answer to 2 is that it
    should be handled differently, how so?  and 4. My sitter's sister seems
    to think that I have a real problem with him because he wasn't trained
    by the time he was 2, isn't being trained by 2 a little exceptional,
    especially for a boy?
    
    Thanks,
    Lori B. 

    I'm no expert, but I've heard of plenty of kids who didn't potty train
    till later than that.
    
    My daughter turned 3 in May, and started using the potty around then. 
    She has another friend the same age who still is using diapers.  Both
    girls are quite bright.  I think it is the adults' expectations that
    are a problem, not the kids.
    
    It seems as if scolding a child makes toilet training into a big issue. 
    My daughter is usually more upset than anyone else if she gets wet,
    which isn't often.  Instead of scolding, I would give him a sponge and
    get him to help clean up the floor, give him a washcloth and help him
    wipe off himself, and give him some clean clothes.  He can probably get
    himself dressed, right?
    
    I wouldn't like someone who scolded my daughter over something like
    that to be her sitter.
    
    Beryl

    That's the thing, I think I handle it quite nicely when he has an
    accident.  I usually say "Shane, why did wet your pants?"  and he
    usually responds, "I don't know".  I then say, "Maybe you were a little
    too busy playing?  You know you're supposed to use the potty, next time
    please tell me or Lynda (the sitter) if you need to use the potty". His
    response, "Ok".  It usually works well as he usually doesn't have an
    accident again for a while (okay, last week it was every day - she may
    have yelled at him more then, I don't know, I wasn't there).  Anyway, I
    don't have to worry about her yelling/hitting him anymore as today is
    the last day she'll be watching him.
    
    Thanks, I feel better.  I just hope the person who said I had a problem
    reads this and opens her eyes (yes, she works here at DEC).
    
    Lori B.

    I don't have any experience potty training a 3 yr old boy (my
    daughter's only 18 mos) but at our last checkup our pedi said that
    potty training usually starts between 2 and 3.  Now, to me that says
    starts, may or may not be fully trained in that time.  I've also heard
    that boys take longer, too.  It sounds like he's on his way to being
    fully trained; he sounds normal to me.
    
    Now, if the sitter yelled at my daughter for having an accident I would
    be major league PO'ed and if she smacked her on the head, too, I be
    looking to smack that sitter on the head!  There is no way that yelling
    and belittling can benefit a child.  I would think that that only
    serves to diminsh a child's self-respect and confidence.  There has to
    be a way to let a child know that accidents happen but we really have
    to try harder next time.  Make him help clean it up, but I can't see
    how getting very angry and yelling is going to help him at all.
    
    Boy this really set off a hot button.
    
    Susan

Another "vote" that says it is not unusual for a child not to be potty 
trained by 3.  Our son wasn't, and we know of a lot of others who weren't.

I think that the approach to potty training is something that needs to be 
worked out between the parent and the daycare provider (within reason -- 
the daycare provider probably has more kids to be concerned with); the more 
uniform the approach, the more likely it is to be effective.

But in NO case should getting angry with a child be a part of the regimen, 
and in NO case of potty training or anything else should a child be struck.

Clay

>and in NO case of potty training or anything else should a child be struck.

    So she had no right to smack him on the butt for kicking the cat either
    I guess.
    
    Lori B.

We tried to start our son potty training when he was 2.5 - no good.  He was just
too busy to bother using a potty.  We waited until he was almost 3 and went to
underpants cold turkey.  Yes, we did lots of laundry and it was trying at times
to keep a cool head, but it worked.  We still use rubber sheets on his bed
because he still has accidents at night but we don't make a big deal out it at
all.  He's almost 5 now and very rarely has an accident during the day.

Our 2.5 year daughter decided about 2 months ago to use the potty and has been
out of diapers since.  Much easier this time around, but she still has accidents
during the day and night, but again, we don't make a big deal out of it and keep
the washing machine busy. :-)

They don't get potty trained over night and they are still only 3 years old. 
Keep that in mind, it helps.

Dave

    Well, my youngest son is 4.5 years old and still refuses to use the
    toilet to "poop".  He has a stretched out colon and it can be very
    painful for him to poop.  For whatever reason (we've never tried to
    force him) he associates the pain with the toilet (although he goes the
    other way with no problem).  He is being watched by the dr. for the
    colon problem and is on a mild mineral-oil based stool softener.  The
    dr. feels that once his colon is back to normal and he no longer feels
    pain while pooping that he'll want to use the toilet.
    
    My other two sons were 3.5 and 3.3 years old when they trained with no
    problems - they both knew when they were ready and were trained in a
    week.
    
    You were right to get the child away from that sitter.  Between the
    sitters attitude and the other parents, your child didn't have a chance
    at developing at HIS own rate (without laying MAJOR guilt on himself).

    
    Lori, I'm glad to hear that your son's stay with this particular 
    sitter has come to an end.   I really think yelling at a child
    and/or smacking him on the head are completely inappropriate
    for a potty-training accident.   I second (third, forth?) the 
    suggestions to have him help clean up after his accidents without
    being judgemental and harsh.  I would also suggest that both you 
    and his next sitter encourage/remind/coax him to go to the bathroom
    on a regular basis to try to circumvent the wetting accidents that 
    he may have because he's just too busy playing.
    
    And not to rathole this note to the topic of spanking, but I think
    kicking the cat (something your child probably *knows* is wrong) is 
    a different situation entirely from wetting his pants (which he probably 
    isn't doing deliberately).   A swat on the hand or bum MIGHT be an
    appropriate punishment for the former; if the parents and the daycare
    provider decide jointly that it is.  
    
    Carol    

    RE: Sitter hitting child and 3 yr old potty trained.
    
    I did not read all the notes following Lori's but from the previous one
    I guess that Shane is not at that sitter's anymore. SUPER! A child
    should NOT be smacked for any reason, especially a 3 yr old. How
    abusive! Avanti (now 4 yrs 5 mos) was not ready to be potty trained at
    all until she decided on her own initiative at 3.5 yrs. One day she
    decided that she will use the potty and after that she has never had a
    single accident. 
    
    I tried a lot before her self-motivating step but the more I tried the
    m ore she regressed. At one point I saw her being stressed out and
    completely backed out. As our pedi says " have  you seen a teenager in
    diapers?"
    
    Shaila

    Yet another vote for no-hitting for an accident.  Russell trained
    himself after watching a potty tape in about week. He did this about a
    2 weeks before his third birthday. But he still has the occasional
    accident, especially when he's playing outside.  We usually just have a
    little talk about going sooner, and trying to do everything in the
    potty the next time.  We also tell him that everything is ok.  It seems
    to have worked - the only accident we've had lately was due to stomach
    problems from antibiotics.

    I personally would have had to restrain myself from bopping the sitter
    for this one. 

    marianne

    Lori--It's not unusual.  One of my daughters trained herself promptly
    at 2; the other was 3 1/2.  And I have heard that boys, on average, are
    trained at a later age.
    
    And no way is any sitter allowed to strike my child!
    
    -Tracy

    My son only started using the potty and underpants a few weeks
    before he turned four.  A month later, he's still wetting at
    night now and then, and sometimes at day-care when he's busy
    playing.  They have a good way of motivating him: he has to
    change his own pants, and while that's happening he's missing
    out on playtime (or whatever the day-care is doing).  "Natural
    consequences" I believe this kind of thing is called.
    
    I've noticed that he resents being asked "do you need to go to
    the potty"--the answer is always "No!".  But if you leave him
    alone, he'll go on his own.
    
    Anywat, add my voice to the chorus of agreement that punishing
    a child for a toileting accident is seriously inappropriate.
    
    		-John Bishop

    Just wanted to let everyone know, that responded to my note, that Shane
    did wonderfully at the new sitter's yesterday.  He loved it!  Didn't
    stop talking about it all evening.  He had no accidents all weekend or
    yesterday.  When we got home yesterday, he took his pants off all by
    himself and went into the bathroom and did poop and pee on the potty
    without my even asking him to do so!  What a change in attitude!
    
    Lori B.

I came across this in the Dave_Barry notes file.
================================================================================
Note 118.0                       Potty Training                       No replies
PERCH::ANDY_LESLIE                                   46 lines  28-JAN-1985 06:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	The Traditional Potty Training Technique

The traditional potty-training technique is to buy a book by someone who
was  out getting  graduate school  degrees  when his  own children  were
actually being  potty trained.  My  wife bought  a book that  claimed we
could potty train  our child in one  day, using a special  potty that (I
swear  this is  true!) played  'Twinkle, Twinkle  Little Star'  when the
child  went in  it.   She also  bought  alittle book  for  our son  that
explained potty training  in terms that a small  child could understand,
such as "poo-poo".

    Now there may well be some  parents, somewhere, who managed to potty
train their child in  a day, but I am willing to bet  they used a cattle
prod.  My wife read  that book all the way through,  and she did exactly
what it said, which  was that you should feed your child  a lot of salty
snacks so  that it would drink  a lot of liquids  and consequently would
pee  every 20  minutes, which  would give  it lots  of opportunities  to
practice going in  the musical potty, so that the  whole procedure would
be nailed down by the end of the day. That was the theory.

    When I left home that morning,  my wife was reading the poo-poo book
to Robert.   She had a  cheerful, determined look  on her face.   When I
got  home, ten  hours later,  there were  cracker crumbs  everywhere and
piles of  soiled child's underpants,  seemingly hundreds of them,  as if
the entire class  of St.  Swithan's School for  Incontinent Children had
been there on a field trip.  My wife was still in her nightgown.  I don't
think she had even brushed her teeth.  It is extremely fortunate for the
man who wrote the  potty training book that he did  not walk through the
door with  me, because  the police  would have  found his  lifeless body
lying  in the  bushes  with  an enormous  bulge  in  his throat  playing
"Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star".

    We did, in  the end, get Robert  potty trained.  We did  it the same
way everybody does, the same way you will, by a lot of nagging and false
alarms and  about 30,000 accidents  and endlessly wild praise  for bowel
movements ("Honey!   Come and  see what Robert  did!" "Oh  Robert, thats
wonderful" etc.).

    The big  drawback to potty training  is that, for a  while, children
assume that all  adults are as fascinated with it  as their parents seem
to be.  Robert  would walk up to strangers in  Restaurants and announce,
"I went  pee-pee." And the strangers  would say, "Ah." And  Robert would
say,  "I didn't  do poo-poo."  And the  strangers would  say, "No?"  And
Robert would say, " I'm gonna do poo-poo later." And so on.

         from "Babies and Other Hazards of Sex" by Dave Barry

    re: .132
    
    Thanks for entering that.  You made my day! :-)
    
    Lori B.

We're in the midst of potty training our twins, so I can definitely relate!

In fact, just yesterday as I was preparing Brad to take a bath, I asked him
if he had to go potty.  No, he insisted, so fool that I am, I took off his
diaper and watched as he promptly went all over my kitchen rug.  Oh well,
it's better than going in the bath, I guess.

    
    	We recently got the video Once Upon a Potty For Him. Although
    Spencer enjoys the video there is no real connection at this point
    other than sitting on his toilet (with his clothes on) during the
    videa.
    	
    	Just wanted to point out that the video (unlike the book) uses the
    term penis instead of pee-pee. They still use wee-wee and poo-poo, but
    these can be easily modified.(and they tell you as much during the
    second half which is a trainer for parents)  I wasn't at all interested
    in teaching Spencer a cute name for his penis. 
    
    	I wonder if they have made a similar leap for Her?
    
    	Although the song is obnoxious (it stays in your mind all day), I'd
    definately give the video a thumbs up as a learning tool.
    
				Wendy
    

    Well, I was going to wait till next summer to try to train our last 
    son. but It looks like he has other ideas. 
    
    I noticed that our two year old was fixated with going down the
    steps and opening the basement door so I followed him and found 
    his diaper on the kitchen floor and he was standing in front of the
    toilet trying to pull/stretch his penis up high enough to point into
    the bowl. Poor guy is three inches too short.
    
    Looks like I'll be doing a Winter potty training. I like just letting 
    them wear training pants and letting them change them every time they 
    are wet. In the winter its so much more laundry, pants, long pants,
    and soxes.
    
    In the last week I have found 10  empty diapers around the house.(not
    all at one time just added them all up) This type of behavior is
    becoming expencive  three diapers in 15 minutes because the ones he
    takes off we can't get the tapes to stick. I have not done anything to 
    discourage because I do want him to be interested in using the bathroom 
    I just wanted him to wait til I was ready.
    
    I'll be ready next week. Yea. My husband cant believe I am
    contemplating potty training over Christmas. Boy wont the 
    relatives have somthing else to remember my children for.
    Again.
    
    jan

We used clear packaging tape to "repair" disposable diapers - 
always seemed to work fine.

    Jan,
    
    If he is ready, don't try to hold him off.  Since you are using
    disposables, there are the pull-up training pants (also disposable)  It
    looks like they have a waterproof covering and pull up and down, rather
    than taping and untaping.  
    
    Meg  

    I don't seem to remember the proper note for pull-ups,but I do remember
    entering a question about where I can get them (few months ago)
    well-WE'VE GOT THEM!!! Last week we saw them at the local supermarket.
    Sure enough-we bought a stock (just incase they decide not to bring
    them again...) They are not even THAT expensive (about 10% more than
    regular diapers).
    Yahli has been using them since,and most times they are dry and clean.
    At night however-we still use diapers.
    Pull-ups,or trainers (by pampers-that's the kind we have in Israel
    now)-give it a try. One package can't be THAT much of a money-waste.
    r/.

    
    I thought trying to discourage him would just make training later 
    much harder so I have just been tickling his bare tummy when I catch
    him with no diaper on. He laughs and I laugh and I get a diaper to put
    on.  I have purchased a box of pull-ups and haused a few to get him im
    accustomed to them but I am not serious about training at this time.
    
    I just had to laugh to when I found a messy diaper on the hall
    floor and Chris with the box of wipes trying to clean himself. I told
    him he was such a big boy ng himself. And he did a pretty good 
    job of it too. My Husband was impressed to find that he could not 
    find to much to clean up after Chris had cleaned himself.
    
    I know it must be that this is the last child or just procrastinat
    
                       

    
                                                                             
After looking through all 140 entries to this note it looks like there's no
easy solution to the problem of trying to potty train a strong-willed child. 
Lindsay, our 3 year 4 month old  daughter, has her way of thinking and that's
it.  And, it's NOOOOOO to anything else.  I guess I shouldn't make it sound
that bad as most of the time she does compromise and listens to reason.  She
interacts well  with her friends at day care and doesn't beat on her 6 year old
brother too much.  She's adorable and we love her to pieces but....
          
The problem is that almost every night about 15 minutes after being put to bed
she puts a load in her pullup and we have to change her.  This is a routine
that's been going on for months with no end in sight.  At night she sits on the
pot after brushing her teeth but she basically twiddles her thumbs and waits
until she's in her bed.  Sometimes she sits on the pot for over 30 minutes. We
don't want it to seem like punishment so we usually give up after 10-15
minutes.  When she's on the pot she says, "If I do poopies on the potty I'll
get a sticker?!" but that's as  far as it gets.  She knows that there's no
sticker if no poopies in the pot (listen to me with an MS and all). When we put
her to bed we tell her to let us know if she has to go and we'll help her get
on the pot and in fact sometimes she gets up after being in bed for a few
minutes and sits on the pot but no luck.  We put her back to bed then she goes. 
If we press the matter by putting  her to bed with underpants (we change her
into a pullup before we go to sleep so she won't pee all over the bed) and tell
her that she can't do poopies in her undies she'll hold it in for 2-3 days then
complain of a stomach ache.  We explain to her that she has a stomach ache
because she needs to do poopies so let's sit on the potty.  During these 2-3
days she'll sit on the pot and put on the fascial expressions and all but no
results. Then we have to concede and we put the pullup on at bedtime and tell
her that its okay to do it in her pullup so that her stomach feels better. 
Eventually she goes in her pullup and we're back to where we started.  Maybe we
should back off but give me a break!  She goes like clock work every night so
there's no denying that she has the control.  

She wears underpants during the day and goes pee on the potty at day-care  and
at home and wears a pullup at night. 1-2 nights out of the week she's dry in
the morning.  

When she was about 2.5 yr we had a real problem getting her to go pee on the
pot. She would not sit on the pot, period.  When we started putting big girl
pants on her during the day she would hold her pee from the time that she woke
up until she got her diaper on at bedtime.  Finally one night after holding it
in all day she had to go so bad that we physically held her on her fisher price
potty and it came gushing out.  She was crying while we held her but you could
see the relief in her eyes.   We hugged  her and comforted her so that she knew
there was nothing to be afraid of.  Since then she sits on the pot when she 
has to pee but she waits until bedtime for the poopies.

I guess the old saying holds true, 
	
	"You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink!".

but we'd like to be done with those pullups.

	
   Bill (Two and through!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Bill,

    Has Lindsay had a BM on the potty at all?  From your note it sounds 
like she hasn't.  Perhaps she hasn't quite figured out how to control
that part of her body yet.  Obviously she has enough control to "hold it 
in" - but that isn't exactly the same as being able to "let it out" on
command.

    My daughter Michelle didn't learn to control her BM's enough to
use the toilet until long after she had been reliably peeing on the toilet
for quite some time.  All the cajoling and offers of stars only stressed
us both out more.  I finally gave up and stopped worrying - just left her
in diapers.  One day Michelle decided all by herself that she wanted to "go
poopies" on the toilet.  She did - and has never had an accident since that day.

    I think you're handling the situation just fine.  Leave her in diapers 
or pullups as long as she likes.  I know lots of little girls who weren't
completely toilet trained until after they were three (my daugher is one
of them)  One day she is going to surprize you, and your training worries 
will be over.

- Carol

Just thought I'd mention how good Samantha (2.75 years) has been doing since 
she decided to stop using diapers.  Besides the 5 or so false alarms of 
claiming she has to go potty in the space of 10 minutes (real fun in church 
or grocery shopping), she's very good at using the toilet.  Her latest 
behavior is to get up around 3-4 am, crawl out of bed, walk to the bathroom, 
flick on the light, pull down her pants, lift up the seat of her little potty 
sit down and go.  She'll then sit there, holding her nightgown up around her 
chest and call either 'Mommy!' or 'Daddy!'.  This will wake us up so we can 
go in and wipe her.  She'll pull her pants up and then we have to carry her 
back to bed.

She has a better (fewer) bed wetting record than her 5 year old brother.....

Dave

re:  141

Actually, this sounds like a control issue to me.  A
kid who can hold it until the pull-up is on can tell
when it's time to use the potty.

We had a control problem with Elise - she would not
go when we thought she should, screaming, yelling,
etc.  But she never had an accident, because if she had
to go, she would tell us and run for the bathroom.
The problem was, she wanted responsibility for her
bathroom habits and we weren't letting go.

So, maybe you could try telling Lindsay that it is her
responsibility to decide when to go to the bathroom.
She just might respond to being in charge.  Go the whole
way - if she messes up, she cleans it up:  puts soiled
clothes in the location you specify, washes herself,
gets clean clothes and puts them on, etc.  See if you
can get your day-care to do the same thing.

Takes some will-power to let go, but maybe this is
what she needs.

Pat

    
    My nephew wasn't easy to potty-train, but since bribes seem to be
    the norm (8, here is his story... He wanted to go to Disneyworld,
    but he was told that until he was potty-trained, they wouldn't be
    able to go.   Viola!!  It's amazing how fast he learned after that!
    
    

    Try this twist on and let me have some opinions pleeeeze!
    
    The "latest" for 7 year old AJ, who had accidents up through last fall
    is a conversation going something like this
    
    me:  AJ why don't you try and go to the bathroom.  We're going to take
    	a long ride, and it might be quite a while until the next bathroom.
    
    AJ:  I don't have to go potty mom.....(very long pause) I just have to
    	pee mom.
    
    same conversation after a three hour car ride to Maine, this past
    weekend, same answer...  somehow this kid doesn't equate "pee" as
    having to go to the bathroom, somehow "going to the bathroom" equates
    only to having a BM, he will announce to us "mom I have to go pee",
    usually folowed by an emphatic NOW MOM!  and of course we're on the
    highway a million miles from anything!  But ain't that just typical!
    
    any comments from the experts out there?
    
    Lyn

    Yes, before leaving the house ask AJ if he has to pee.
    
    I carried a small covered jar in my glove box for those times when NOW
    meant NOOOOWWWWWWW.  We didn't have a problem with them wanting to peei
    n a jar all the time, either, so they knew it was special
    circumstances.  Now if we are going to a store, I always tell them to
    use the bathroom, because I am not spending my outing waiting outside a
    bathroom somewhere.
    
    -sandy
    

    GOing for a drive with young children...
    
    Andrew is an expert at the art of "Bush Wees"
    
    q
    

Once on a walk in the woods, Elise had to pee *NOW* -
she had just started wearing training pants.

She didn't believe we should pee in the woods, so
I had to demonstrate.  Then she immediately was
willing to try it.

The problem was, for the next week, she always
wanted to go out into our woods to pee.

Took a while to convince her that we only do that
when there is no bathroom around...


Pat

    re  -1
    We had the same experience. Ryan trained at 2 yrs. 9 months. Once,
    around age 3, he had to go and he HAD TO GO NOW, while we were in the
    yard. I told him to go in the bushes and go, which he did quite
    gleefully. For weeks afterwards he would want to pee in the yard. The
    problem was, our bushes are the border to our neighbor's yard, so if he
    peed in the bushes, he was basically facing the neighbors! The day they
    had a party in their yard was the day I told him no more peeing in the
    bushes!!
    

    A couple with 3 children were renovating their main bathroom, for one
    day the toilet was out of commission and the youngest child (I think 5
    years old) had to pee in a cup...for days after that he made a huge
    fuss about wanting to only pee in a cup.
    
    ......just another example
    
    Jt

    
    Heck....anyone who's ever been in a stable with no facilities,
    uses a stall!  
    
    

    When my daughter was about 21 months she became quite interested in
    'the potty'.  She was facinated by toilets (although she would not
    use the ones with black 'open' seats).
    
    Anyhow, one day we were shopping at a local hardware store when we
    headed down the aisle with several toilet styles on display. Amber
    looked at the row of toilets, screamed with glee and started pulling
    down her pants.  I grabbed her, pulling up her pants I tryed to explain
    to this 21 month old that *these* are not _real_ toilets. Well, they
    looked real to her (because of course they were) and she persisted. We
    finally compromised and let her sit on each one *with* her pants on.
    
    Jodi-

Ah Bush pees!

When David was 2 he was most impressed when he was instructed to pee "like a 
bear in the woods" when he just HAD to go. The only problem was that once home
, he found the idea of being a bear so attractive he decided to take it 
further, and dug a hole in the front lawn, which he then filled. 
The "David lake" was a feature we endured for about 2 weeks. The grass has 
since recovered.

Chele

    How do you know when kids are ready?  What kind of signs will they
    show, what should I watch for?  My daughter is only 17 months and is 
    fascinated by the toilet.  She wants to lift up the seats and wants to 
    sit on it.  When I put her on it,  she immediately gets scared and 
    wants to get down.  She has never done anything on the toilet.  If we
    ask her if she has a poopy diaper, she will either say yes and walk
    into her room, or ignore us.  At daycare, she hands the teachers a
    diaper when she needs to be changed. 
    
    Thanks,                               
    Lisa Cozzens  

    Lisa,
    
    Try getting a child-size potty that sits next to yours.  The big ones
    were always too scary for my children.  Don't push it, but if she wants
    to come in and sit with you when you go, give her a chance.  Lolita
    trained a 18 months, partially because my mother was watching her and
    my mother is a member of the "itty-bitty bladder club" and took her
    along to the pot when she went.  Carrie started "playing" at 15 months
    when I went but at 21 months, decided that she had had enough of
    diapers, and never looked back.  it really depends on the kid.  
    
    Meg 

Noelle is 23-months and seems ready to be potty-trained.  That is, she
was dry for about 10 hours (!!!) on Saturday.  We were changing her diaper
to put her to bed and I was rather concerned that her diaper was still dry.
"Noelle, don't you have to pee?".  "Yeah...".  "Do you wanna use the potty
chair?".  "Yeah...".  And sure enough, she produced.  The next day I
put a pull-up on her and she was quite proud of her "underwear".  Then
we got nervous when she was headed outdoors to play (with Daddy) and put
her back into diapers.  

How did you actually do potty-training?  I've shown her the "Once Upon A
Potty" video several times and she likes watching it.  I also explain the
process to her repeatedly.  I tell her she can let us know when she needs
to go and we'll help her.  (She can't remove her clothes yet.)  Should I
also ask her repeatedly if she needs to go?  How absorbent are the pull-ups?
(Actually we're using Pampers Trainers, but they're the same idea.)  She's
showing a lot of interest in the potty chair and likes to sit on it and have
Mommy read her stories.  (I'm also a little suspicious that this is a before
bed- and nap-time stall tactic :-)

I feel like I know all the "don't"s around potty-training (don't pressure
the kid, don't make a big deal about accidents), but none of the "do"s.

Thanks in advance for training tips...

- Deb B.

    Deb,
    
    Until my older two got to the point where they would ask, I would ask
    them if they needed to use the potty frequently.  Also whenever I
    needed to go, I would take them with me.  
    
    We would heap on the praise when the pot was used, and ignore the
    accidents.  Soon enough you won't be able to pass a bathroom.
    
    I have no idea about the pull ups and how much they hold.  Our diaper
    service has cotton trainers, and in the early days, we had no problems
    with putting a pair of rubber pants on with the trainers.  You still
    can get leaks, but it isn't alot.
    
    meg

	Deb,

	Thanks for entering that.  I've been trying to find time to
	ask the same question, as Emily, 25 months, has been using
	the potty since April (more when I was home on leave, and 
	a bit less lately), and "produces" every night for Daddy.

	She also tells us when she just went, so I figure she's about
	ready.

	I asked a woman at church what she did when she just trained
	her 24 month old, and she said she just put him in training
	pants with rubber pants over them, asked him frequesntly, and
	suffered a few accidents, but after 3 days he figured it out,
	and now tells her when he needs to go.

	I was going to try over the long weekend, but Emily was sick.  I
	may try this weekend.

	I'll be looking forward to reading suggestions here.

	Karen

    My boys were closer to 3, but it went something like .... they were
    interested, I was tired of diapers, and it was warm out.  Put them in
    just plain underwear, and let them play like that.  Every 45-60 minutes
    I'd ask them if they had to go.  They could "skip" one time.  If they
    said "no" one time, then the next time I'd have them try anyway (and
    they usually had to).  We certainly had accidents, but if they're
    ready, it usually doesn't take too long.
    
    I think a pull-up holds as much as a regular diaper.  I'm too lazy to
    do a lot of extra laundry, which is why I waited till summer, and why
    they only wore undies around.  And a couple times they'd remember when
    they barely had a second left, and would end up going outside, by a
    tree or something (but that's a little easier with boys). 
    
    A friend of mine trained her baby brother this way;
    
    o Ran out of diapers (and money!) when her parents were on vacation.
    o Made Brian drinks *TONS* of juice, water, milk etc.
    o Every 30-45 mins had him TRY.
    o Overreacted (positively) when he produced, and gave him a sticker
    
    ..... it took her ONE DAY to train him!!  She was only 17 years old,
    and just did what made sense to her.  Imagine Mom's surprise/delight
    when they came home!?!

    We've been using pull-ups for a while with Jessica, but she'd stay in
    the same pull-up _all day_ and just keep wetting in it without ever
    telling anyone, so I'd say they're fairly absorbent. In fact, the only
    time I've had a problem has been if I let Brad wear one to bed because
    if his penis is pointing up, he eventually goes right over the top and
    ends up sleeping in a puddle [nothing wakes my kids up once they've
    gone to sleep]. On advice of the daycare, we switched Jessica to
    regular training pants with rubber pants over them so that she will
    feel the accidents. Otherwise, she knew she was essentially wearing a
    diaper and would just go in that when she had to. And she wasn't
    training because she was being lazy. We've had our arguments about her
    wanting to wear a diaper, but I know it's because she just doesn't want
    to be bothered with having to use the potty, and I don't want to
    confuse her by switching back to the pull-ups, or she'll never train.
    
    I've found that by using the training pants with rubber pants, she's
    actually mostly trained. She's really completely trained, but she still
    has accidents when she gets mad, so she is completely trained in that
    she has full control, but she still wets her pants when she's lazy or
    mad.
    
    

Both of my kids trained themselves on or about their 3rd birthday.  It was
literally over night for both of them.  I never pushed and they figured it out
by themselves.  There were no tapes, no potty chairs.  I don't think it was luck.

I think that kids have to be ready to do things.  I know of so many parents who
say I'm going to potty train my kid this weekend.  It doesn't work.

As my Mother always said - no kid ever walked down the aisle in diapers!  

Good luck!

    Sarah has been interested in the potty since 18 mos (she's 26 mos now)
    so we let her play on it as often/long as she wanted.  Until the past 2
    months it's really been more of an excuse for her to take all her
    clothes off and "Be naked, mommy."  We've often let her come into the
    bathroom with us (no modesty in this family) and she's always wanted to
    know what we were doing.
    
    She started at a new daycare last month, a small center vs the family
    care she had been in, and I think she's been seeing all the other kids
    (she's the youngest in her group) use the potty so she's been
    interested.  So, she's been asking to go to the potty alot lately and
    has been producing every time, too.  We recently started using the
    pullups, too, and they are very absorbent, I think she can't tell if she's 
    had an accident so I'm going to buy some real training pants and try
    those out.
    
    We haven't been pushing her at all, but I do ask her alot if she has to
    go.  We are using the sticker method, I let her pick out some special
    stickers and whenever she has a day where she tells me she needs to use
    the potty and does go then she gets a sticker on her chart.  She's
    really proud of all the stickers on the chart and couldn't wait to show
    my parents her chart and big girl underwear this past weekend.
    

    Actually we did train my son one weekend. He was 2 yrs. 9 months, and
    had been doing BMs on the toilet since 20 months, but not peeing. We
    put him in training pants on Saturday morning and every hour took him
    in to pee in the toilet. We had quite a few accidents that first day if
    we went one minute over an hour. The next day there were no accidents,
    and the 3rd day the same thing.  A week later he stopped wearing a
    night time diaper.
    
    Granted, he was very ready, and had quite good retention. To this day, 
    he only pees about 3 times a day!
    
    Lynn
    

	When I said I was going to try to train Emily over a weekend,
	I mostly meant she appears well ready, but doesn't yet know
	to tell us "before" she goes.  She just now is starting to 
	know the meaning of the word "after", I'm not sure if she know's
	the meaning of the word "before".  So, I figure she just needs
	 a little help (ie a day or two of practice) and she'll be on
	her way.

	I agree it's useless to try to push before the child is ready,
	or to put a lot of stress around the process.  

	(Even when we do try underwear, if Emily doesn't respond well
	to the effort, we'll go right back to diapers).

	Karen

    We have two children( 3y6m and 2y0m). Our eldest Mirjam trained
    herself. All we was direct her to the potty, and now she uses the WC.
    No real training involved, just direction. At about 8 mos she got
    interested in the potty, and was daytime trained at about 2 years. 
    
    Our youngest, Thomas, loves to sit on the potty, can produce any time
    he wants, and couldn't care less about a dirty diaper - agreed, he
    complains afterwards, but that's it. He simply is not ready yet in my
    opinion - no motivation. If we were to put him on the potty every one
    to two hours, he would stay dry probably, but as he does not appear
    motivated we do not bother. 
    
    Anybody gets trained some day.

    
    Well, Anna (3yr 2 months) has finally caught on to this peeing on the
    potty bit. She's been ready for what seems like forever, but would
    always refuse to use the potty. When she would sit in the potty she
    wouldn't produce and then 15 minutes later be soaked. Finally last
    week she started going on the potty and has learned how to go. She has
    fun making it stop and start. She has yet to have a BM on the potty.
    She had diarreha twice on Sunday, both times in a pull-up. She didn't
    have another BM until Tuesday night which was hard and not-messy. This
    she did in her undies. She has yet to go again and when I tell her to
    try to poop on the potty she says no. Hopefully she'll catch on to this
    soon. She has been completely accident free during the day this week
    (except for that one BM) and half of the nights she has stayed dry and
    gone on the potty when she gets up. 
    
    Now a question: We're going to a wedding next Saturday and she is
    coming with us. Should I have her wear a pull-up, to be safe, or
    have her wear undies and trust her (and bring a change of clothes or
    two)??? I'm just afraid that with the excitement of the wedding and
    everything she won't be as aware of needing to go and I too may let too
    much time pass between potty trips. But on the other hand, if she stays
    dry all next week (and she has been wearing undies everyday) than I
    don't want to push her back any by making her wear a pull-up. I'm going
    to see how she does next week, but I'll take any advice you people have
    to offer.
    
    Patty

    I would say: Discuss with her, and state your concerns about the
    excitement. Maybe she'll propose herself to wear a pull-up just to be
    safe. 3yr3mos seams old enough to me to discuss the matter.
    
    Michel

    I'd put her in the undies, bring a change of clothes, and explain to
    her what she already knows -- that you don't go potty in your undies. I
    think if you put her back in the pull-ups, then you're taking a step
    backwards and she'll feel more comfortable just going in the pull-up
    because it's 'ok' and it's just like a diaper.
    
    From my experience with Jessica [3yrs, 3mos], keeping her in pull-ups
    or going back and forth has only served to prolong the potty training.
    Since she's been just in underwear and no pull-ups including
    night-time, she's been much better, and has only had a few accidents,
    mostly because she just waits too long.  And the only time she has
    messed in her undies has been when she's had diarrhea [sp?] and it's
    just come too fast for her to even know it was coming.

    I've heard of two videos on potty training and would like to know
    opinions on those who have watched them:
    
    1)  Once Upon a Potty
    2)  It's Potty Time
    
    Chelsea is 26 months and we bought the Fisher Price potty when she
    was around 15 months.  It has served mostly as an extra decoration
    to our bathroom and we really haven't put any pressure on her to
    use it.  I just felt it was good to have it around, so she could
    become comfortable with it in her own way.  For the most part, I
    would ask her if she wants to go potty and she would reply with a
    firm "No Mommy"....needless to say, end of discussion.
    
    Well I pretty much stopped asking around two months ago, figuring
    to just watch out for signs of interest from her without my prodding.
    Last night she was looking at our seat with a keen eye (her potty
    sits on the floor and has an insert for the adult toilet).  I asked
    her if she would like to try and go pee on the potty, which she
    replied "Okay Mommy".  While I was in a mild state of shock, because
    this is the same child who acts like the potty seat is a stack of 
    burning coals when she has sat on it in the past....I quickly assisted
    in undressing her, put the insert on our seat and sat her up there.
    
    After three requests for paper, browsing thru the various magazines
    from the rack, twisting..tugging and pulling on her personal part to
    try and see if the pee was coming....no luck.  So I turned the bathtub
    water on to a trickle and within seconds she was going.  The look of
    acomplishment on her face was definately a polaroid moment and Mommy
    and Daddy were jumping around like we just won the Lottery.
    
    This morning when she woke up, I asked her if she would like to try
    and go potty and she said "Okay Mommy"...so I took her in, no bathtub
    water this time and the minute she sat down away she went.
    
    Sorry to ramble on about this, but I know those of you who have been
    here, know the wonderful feeling I am experiencing and those of you
    who are awaiting this experience will no doubt share the same joy!
    
    ..Lori
                                                  

	Hooray for Chelsea!

	Lori, Emily never cared for the potty seat on the floor.  She's
	never had "success" on the potty seat.  The first time she
	used the potty, I put the insert onto our toilet, and that's
	where she's gone ever since.  I like it better that way, as
	she's not afraid of the "big" toilet, and will use it at
	Grammy's house even without an insert.

	Karen

	

We have the video and book.  Lauren loves the video, it has a 
catchy song with it.  After the video she will go check out her
potty, sit on it with her clothes on but any mention of taking
her diaper off is met with No.  Needless to say, while the 
video seems to be entertaining and informative, I'm not sure 
it "speeds up" the process of learning to use the potty.

WARNING: we have had to watch the video numerous times in a row
and the song is one that will stick in your mind.  You may find 
yourself humming it, or worse, singing the words.

Lauren is 30 months old.  I figure she will let us know
when she is ready.  Folks tell me it happens pretty quickly
if you let them determine when.  I'll see.

Lori, can't wait for that "magic moment" - I'm sure my husband
and I will be estatic.  Congrats! 

Noelle has had her potty chair since she was ~18 months old (now 23 months). 
She loved sitting Piglet in it and saying "Piglet's pooping in the potty
chair!".  She would sit on it occasionally with her clothes on; occasionally
with her clothes off.  In March, she sat on it nude and peed.  Over 4th of July
weekend, she peed in it again.  Last weekend, she did both.  (So at least
the chair is seeing a little more action than usual :-)  She hasn't
done anything yet for her nanny.

We got the "Once Upon a Potty" video right around 4th of July.  Noelle likes 
it and *loves* the song.  Not sure if it helped, but I'm sure it didn't
hinder...  If you're at all picky about the words you want to use for
body parts, you may not like the video.  I think they use the phrase
"And Prudence has a pee-pee to make wee-wee."  I prefer "pee" to refer to
urine and I haven't decided what word to use for the relevant anatomy.

    Well your congrats are very much appreciated, but I fully realize that
    we have a long road ahead of us!  I have no illusions that Chelsea will
    be potty learned by the weekend.  I'm guestimating that we probably
    have a good 6 months plus ahead of us until we are accident free!  I
    am just so pleased that she finally did something on the potty other
    then shouting the reflex "NO" when I mention it to her.
    
    I know that all of this will come together when Chelsea is ready and I
    really am of the crowd who believes not to push or have a child meet
    a parents expectation of when they should be potty learned.  I say
    "learned" instead of "train", cuz I believe that you don't train them.
    They will learn 1)When there body is ready; 2)When they are aware of
    the need; 3)When they can learn control.  If this all happens by the
    time she is 18, I'll be proud.  So far she won't be going down the 
    aisle with a bottle in her mouth or a pacifier (since we gave those
    up a year ago); so we only got the potty stuff and her numerous
    blankies and animal buddies!
    
    This morning was not so successful, but it still brought a huge smile
    to my face.  Chelsea isn't really grouchy shen she wakes up, but just
    still in the normal sleepy phase before all her person is alert.  Well
    I asked her if she wanted to go on the potty and she said "Okay". 
    Going from her crib into the bathroom and being stripped down within
    2 minutes of waking, is not to me the ideal learning grounds for potty
    time....but one that we get accustom to as we all know.  For Chelsea
    the whole idea seemed great from the crib, but by the time we got into
    the bathroom her good mood was beginning to fade.  I sat her on the
    potty and she started to cry.....I told her she could get down and she
    got mad because she didn't want to (Can't a mom ever do anything
    right!! ha ha); I took her off the potty and set her standing on the
    rug where she proceeded to pee and I lifted her probably a little to
    quickly to the toilet so she could get the remaining stream where it
    belonged....which of course upset her.  So all in all, this wasn't the
    greatest session, but we did manage to end it on a hug and a smile!
    
    For those of you who are just starting out with this or have gone thru
    it, how did you handle the morning trip when they were still a little
    bit on the sleepy, grumpy, not-sure-what-I-want-type-mood!!
    
    ...Lori

    Natasha (34 months) is doing real well on the big potty during the day
    since I bought the little stool by little tikes.  She loves climbing up
    on the potty all by her self....then moving the stool when she's done
    so she can wash her hands (something she has only remembered since she
    has a stool to climb up on & she can see herself in the mirror).
    
    The morning trip is always a chore...but a loving one...as my child is
    like her mom..a night owl and come morning time we are two bears.  Anyways
    we get her to the potty as she's still in zombie mode...them we tell
    her to "push out the pee pees" and we'll give her a hug.  Sometimes she
    has to hug either Mommy or Daddy for 5 minutes (which is wicked long
    when your rushing) and if it goes on to long...we ask her if shes going
    to pee on the potty or would she like a diepi (diaper) on.......she
    98% of the time will pee within moments.  If she doesn't pee we have to
    put a diaper on as the commute is 45 minutes.......lots to time for
    morning accidents.  But if she doesn't pee in the am only and we end up
    with a diaper -- big girl pants go over the diaper.   Oh by the way,,
    she prefers the little potty in the morning...she doesn't have to hold
    on.
    
    Now the only time she has accident is if she's tantruming and hopping
    up and down like a toad in the time out corner....if she has to
    pee..she sometimes does a little bit.
    
    All this talk is making me have to go..........bye
    
    
    

	This is a combined "potty training" and "diapers" note question...

	Basically the question is, does the extra dryness of disposable diapers
hinder potty training? 

	Our son is almost 22 months old, and he's been in cloth since day 1.
However, our daycare provider requested we use disposable during the summer.
And so we noticed that at this age, disposables get tempting: they work better
on an active toddler, they're more convenient (ok, I'll admit it), and they're
cheaper than the diaper service once you drop below about 5 dozen.  (The
service has a base cost plus $0.50/doz; you pass the break-even point when
you're changing the baby a lot.  Nowadays we change him a lot less.)

	So we're just about ready to switch, and we might even get over our
deep, deep guilt (we're hardcore reuse/recyclers), but we're pushed back to
cloth by my wife's sister suggesting that cloth diapers will make him more
aware of being wet, and facillitate potty training.  So what's your opinion?

	Add to the equation the feeling that we've come "so close" to doing
cloth all the way, it would be a shame to blow it now.  While I feel we could
be very naive and optimistic about training soon, there are some good signs:
he's very interested in the whole business (he talks about it, he'll come
running to watch Daddy), his best friend at daycare is older and trained, he's
aware of when he's doing something, etc. 

	What do you folks think?

	Brian W.

	I already have a .PS:

	I'm aware that they now sell diapers (or pull-ups?) that are built
less effective on purpose.  I don't know if I could overcome the irony of 
a product whose selling point is "NOT 100% effective!"  And we'd probably
want to use regular disposables most of the time, even if we did get those...

	B.W.

    Being a hard-core cloth diaper user and having had my first two trained
    before they were 2 yrs, I am all in favor of remaining with cloth. 
    Your mileage may vary, but my kids don't like wet butts and I think it
    really does help.  On top of it, my diaper service provided us with
    trainers when we were starting to make the transition, so I still had
    less wash.
    
    Now the environmental guild piece.  Friends of mine in Nevada find it
    to be more environmentally correct to use disposable, because as they
    put it, "water is in short supply, but we have an endless desert for
    landfills."  where I live landfill space is at a premium and so is
    water, but the diaper service doesn't use that much according to their
    information (less than a household load of laundry through their
    high-tech machinery.) so I use the service.
    
    meg, who has a family of five and less than one trash bag a week for
    the garbage company.

    re .176
    We are using nappy service, and use disposables scarcely.
    Comparing our two little ones, I think it depends more on the child (
    and parent attentiveness) than on the diaper. Our first was well
    trained (daytime only) at 24 mos, our second still doesn't care at all.
    
    So our first had cotton diapers at daycare, the second now has
    throw-away. We try to be as much aware as possible, but have given up
    on forcing our views to others (eg daycare providers). Hope this helps
    a bit.

    

     My twin girls(2�) have not been the easiest to toilet train,they freak
    every time wee try to put them on the toilet/potty.We try about every
    two weeks.....but yesterday we thought we had a break thru,Sarah said
    she needed so my wife took her up to the toilet,sat her on it and
    thought this is it.But at the worst possible moment the local council
    started to clear a blocked drain...the water in the pan started to
    bubble then it was sucked away.Needless to say Sarah went berserk....
    ...I now think we'll have to wait till she's about 8 before we take
    her near it again.@:^)


     SCott

>     My twin girls(2�) have not been the easiest to toilet train,they freak
>    every time wee try to put them on the toilet/potty.We try about every

Try getting a separate little potty chair and put it next to the
toilet.  I think little kids are afraid of that big drain to no-where.....
and it feels like a reasonable fear.

We got a little potty, put it next to the toilet, and the kids
knew it was just for them.  Their 'special' toilet.....

	My son, who is over three, just became fully potty trained last 
	month.  He has been able to stand up and pee, on demand, since he 
	was just over two.  But, that didn't stop the wet pants.  He was 
	basically just too interested in his play activities to be bothered.

	A few people (including our pediatrician) suggested that we try 
	only a few days, once a month.  Either it would click, or it 
	wouldn't.  At these times, we took three or four days in a row, 
	kept him mostly home, and let him wear just a sweatshirt and 
	underpants.  We made sure he realized he didn't have a diaper 
    	on, and asked every so often if he wanted to use the bathroom.  
    	We tried the start of October, November, December, and January.  
    	During the first day of our January attempt, the weather was 
    	nice enough that I wanted to go for a walk.  I suggested that 
    	we put a diaper on, so we didn't have to worry about coming 
    	back too soon.  He said "just a minute", went into the bathroom, 
    	had a BM, came to ask if I wanted to look at it before he flushed, 
    	and hasn't messed his pants since.  

	The funny thing is that ever since he started, he hasn't even 
	cared if anyone was around to help.  If he's wearing an elastic 
	waistband (and doesn't need help buttoning or zipping), I might 
	not even know he's been in the bathroom.  In addition, he could 
	really care less about his little potty seat.  When he was ready, 
	he just headed straight for the regular toilet.

	Last Friday, we went shopping at the Pheasant Lane mall.  Just as 
	I got his food all laid out on the table, mine set out, and started 
	to feed my five-month-old a jar of baby food, he decided he had to 
	pee....  About half way through lunch, he told me the Burger King 
	shake was going right through him, and needed to pee again.  
	Fortunately, I was sitting near another couple with a young 
	son, who watched over our meals as we make our bathroom treks.

	So, now that he's finally there...  I'm wondering what the big 
	deal was...  At least my daytrips didn't have to revolve around 
	knowing where all the toilets were before this!

	Peggy

    
    RE: .182 - We had the exact same experience with Jason and I think it
    		worked out best for everyone!   Hope to repeat with Alex
    		in a couple of years....

    This one hits home for me and both your responses really help put
    things back in perspective.  Chelsea will be 3 in May and for the past
    couple of months has shown a real interest in the potty.  She does
    great going first thing in the morning, but the rest of the day is 
    just to busy to stop for anything.  She is also at daycare and with
    five other little ones to watch, my daycare mom can't really give her
    one-on-one attention, which is understandable.
    
    I really believe that she will potty learn, not potty train.  Meaning
    that when she is ready, both body and mind, that she will just do it.
    She has only gone pee in the potty so far, no big jobs.  We did big
    girl training underwear last weekend and this was goodness compared
    to the pullups.  I asked her about every hour if she needed to go
    and the response was no.  Well after the last check (which was about
    3 hours into the morning) she came out of her bedroom and said "Mommy,
    made a mess".  Well in the pullups she would never even tell me if
    she wet, but with the training underwear, she knew right away and came
    and let me know.
    
    Sometimes I will admit that I let myself get stressed out that she is
    not already going on the potty.  I hear my friends who talk about their
    two year olds who are fully trained and think to myself "Am I doing
    something wrong".  But then I come back to earth and realize that my
    daughter has done everything else on "her time" and this is just one
    more thing that I have to learn to be patient about.
    
    A treasured memory was a couple of weeks ago when she sat down for
    her morning pee.  She was trying so hard and nothing would happen.
    She finally looked and me and said "Mommy, pee pees are stuck".  
    Out of the mouths of babes.... I love it!
    
    ..Lori

	Is there any way to *not* let them chose for themselves ?

	I mean, even if you try to train them, all you get is
	frustration.  In the end, it's when they decide they
	are ready.

    re .182
    
    Peggy,
    
    Well, I can tell you the locations of most of the bathrooms in the
    greater Nashua area (-:
    
    It certainly CAN be easier with a diaper!
    
    

    
    
    All these notes have made me feel better.  I don't worry too much
    becasue I don't have much "leisure" time to worry :-)
    My sone is 3 years and 7 months old.  We've occasionally made some
    attempts, have had the potties in the bathrooms for a year and a half,
    but my son is NOT really at all.  This last year the family has gone
    through many cahnges, so why push it and my pedi agrees.  We had a new
    baby (3 months early and in the hospital amost 3 months, Mom was in the
    hospital for 3+ weeks at that time, we had daily 60+ plus round trips
    to the baby's hospital, built an new house, moved, changes daycares,
    husband laid off and finally brought the new baby home, all in 6
    months!  So, I didn't have much time to worry about it and Andrew still
    could go days with a poopy, let alone wet diaper if I let him.  Only
    diaper rash will ever push him to tell me he needs achange, so this
    spring/summer, I figure most of our life will be back to "normal" and
    will start again.  We've bought big boy underwear and he likes knowing
    there there when he's ready.  He even talks about it in the future by
    saying "When I decide to wear big boy underwear..........."  So
    preschool is in September,  and his 4th birthday is in July, so law of
    averages has it that we'll probably be wearing the "Ninga Turtle"
    underwear by August????????   Hopefully!
    
    P.S.  If Andrew keeps pushing out the time, maybe Kevin will be ready
    at the same time......   HA!
    
    Beth
    

    Beth,
    
    I can sympathize.  My son was a few weeks shy of his fourth birthday
    when he finally started going on the potty consistently.  Up to that
    point, he would pee most of the time, but never poop.  One day he just
    did it, and that was that.  
    
    I was going for the Guinness Book of World Records for the oldest child
    still in diapers.  But no such luck.  Hang in there, it'll happen.
    
    Julie

    
    
    I'm going through the same thing.  Nicholas was 3 last month
    and has shown 'some' interest in 'peeing' but no 'pooping'.
    My mother said I should wait until the summer and I can train
    him and my almost 2 year old at the same time!
    
    This past weekend, we put the pull-ups on Nicholas and asked
    him every 1/2 hour if he had to go potty.  It's hard to tell
    if this time it's really 'it', since he seems to get interested
    and excited when he pees but then quickly loses it and pees in
    his diaper/and or pullup.  
    
    I think what I'll do is put him in a pullup in the morning 
    and bring him to daycare (I'll bring lots of diapers too)
    and have her ask him every now in then if he has to go potty.
    I'll do this for a couple of days and see how it goes and
    forget about it for a while if he's not interested.  
    I don't want to stress him out over this.  I think I'm more
    worked up about it than he is ;-)
    
    Any advice would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

	   If I were starting all over again I would have NEVER bought
	pullups.  My son preferred them over diapers but I found
	them much more expensive (and harder to change too).  Neither
	one of my kids seemed to understand that pullups should be
	kept clean and dry.  

	   It has been said many times in here but there's not much you
	can do before a child is ready.  I tried asking my son if he
        needed to use the potty and it was just total frustration for
	both of us.  When he was 3 years 3 months he came home from
	daycare and announced that he needed to go.  He went in, stood
	up and used the toilet and we never looked back.  In hindsight
	I think he really hated trying to pee sitting down and was waiting
	to be tall enough to stand up.

	   My daughter trained at 2.5 when we were on a long car trip.
	The first time we stopped at a rest area she insisted on following
	me in and trying to use the potty.  She made me wait half an
	hour but she finally did go.

	   For both my kids once THEY were ready it was simple.  We never
	had to ask them to go, and we had almost no accidents.

        Elizabeth

        P.S.  maybe waiting until summer and trying 2 kids at once is a
              good idea.  My son is a year older and he and his sister
              trained within 3 months of each other.

    I've told this story before but its relevance reminds me to tell it
    again.
    
    When my eldest son was 2.75 yrs. we chose a 3-day weekend, put him in
    undies, and every hour on the hour, brought him in to pee in the
    toilet. We had 2-3 clothes changes the first day, none the second, and
    by the end of the following week he wasn't even wearing diapers to bed.
    Clearly he was ready, but also, we didn't _ask_ if he wanted to go pee
    - we instead said "Time to try and pee".  It helped him learn to
    discern when he really had to go so within a couple weeks  we let him
    decide if he had to go or not.
    
    With my younger son this past fall (3.25 yrs) we started in pullups but
    he repeatedly peed in the pullup. I finally realized that he had less
    sensation in the pullup so he'd pee without really knowing it. When we
    put him in undies, he did much better at realizing BEFORE he'd peed,
    that indeed he had to go.
    
    best of luck. It takes perseverance, and definitely the readiness on
    your child's part.
    

    This is a great note because it really targets some of the key points
    that I have tried to keep my focus on....so this potty learning
    experience can be on the more pleasurable side vs. the stressed out
    one for both Chelsea and me.
    
    I wrote a month ago and its amazing how much progress we have made.
    I will readily admit that I have worn the brunt of the stress on this
    potty learning phase and when I just let things go on a natural course
    they seem to do fine on their own.
    
    Just to re-target some of the things said in this note that have
    definately been an eye opener for this Mom:
    
    1.  They will learn to do it when they are ready.
    
    2.  Forget the pullups, she has no sensation or care in the world when
        she wets in them....but when she does wet in her undies its a whole
        different story.
    
    3.  Backoff if they show signs of non-interest and try again in a week
        or two.
    
    4.  Rewards systems in place are great motivators (i.e. charts,
        stickers, M&M's, etc.)
    
    5.  If the parent gets stressed, relax....take a breath....and if your
        not ready to devote total patience, consistency, time, and clean
        up duty....try again in a week or two!
    
    Chelsea is just starting to show real key indicators of not only 
    interest, but in recognizing some of the feelings and functions of
    potty learning.  I think its important to tune in to your child and
    be aware of when these things start to happen...something I am just
    learning...instead of possibly pushing the matter at a time that is
    not right for the child.  Chelsea wore big girl undies all day
    yesterday and for the first time communicated to me that she needed
    to use the potty, I think it's important to remind them, but also
    they need to be able to verbalize it too...especially if they are in
    a daycare situation where the caretaker is responsible for several
    children.
    
    I'm not ready to put her in undies full time.  I think we are just
    entering the start up of this chapter and I don't want to push her
    just to meet my expectations...which seem to be built on parent and
    friend peer-preasure.  I am so proud of her accomplishments with the
    potty yesterday and I know we might slip back or leap forward, but
    I'm trying to keep a patient and level head on this one...another
    learning chapter for this first time mom.
    
    .....gosh....guess I rambled!!
    
    ..Lori

Pullups are great for at night, though.  We found them much better than
changing bedsheets at 3 AM.  :-)

      Carol

	We've had to use pull-ups at night, too, as Emily
	sometimes wakes and wants to use the potty.  I'm not
	fond of changing diapers at midnight ;-) 

	Unfortunately, Emily seemed to mind wetting her diaper
	more than she does the pull-ups, so we took a step or
	two backwards when we went to pull-ups.  However, she
	has recently been trying very hard to *not* to wet them,
	so we've had about 4 dry mornings in a row again.  I'm
	not concerned with when she is night-trained, so I'm just
	waiting on her.  

	Karen

	I have an odd question regarding potty training.

	Emily has been out of diapers for almost 6 months, and is
	just about to get rid of bedtime pull-ups.  

	In the last 2 weeks, she suddenly has been having what I
	would call "leaking" immediately after she uses the potty.
	For example, she will finish using the potty, dry off, then
	on the way to her room to get her underpants (in the morning,
	when the pull-ups come off in the bathroom), will leak urine.

	This is not a couple of missed drips.  I've tried to emphasize
	that she needs to finish on the potty, *then* dry off, but I'm
	feeling this isn't something she can control.  It rarely happens
	during the day, usually only once in the morning, and has
	sometimes happened the last trip to the potty before bed.

	Last week she did say one morning "my bum hurts" (generic term
	for her female parts) while using the potty, but never mentioned it	
	again.  I'd suspect a UTI, but she has no other symptoms.

	Has anyone experienced or heard of such a thing ?  

	Karen

    karen,
    
    just to be on the safe side I would get her into your care-provider to
    rule out a uti.  if this isn't the case, then try to get her to wipe a
    second time.
    
    meg

    
    If it isn't a uti could you get her to sit on the potty longer to make
    sure everything is drained out?

I'm looking for advice on night time training.  Sean is 2 years 10 months, and
has been out of nappies during the day for about 2 or 3 months.  After a full
week of completely dry nappies at night, I thought he was ready to go 
without at nights as well.  However, after 8 nights he has had 4 dry ones 
and 4 wet ones.  He is very upset when he does wet the bed, and we are using
a star chart, so he gets a star if he has a dry night.

I'm wondering whether a 50% record is good enough to persevere - whether to
hang on for another week or so, or give up and try again in a month or two.

When I ask him whether he wants to wear a nappy at night, he says "no".

I am also wondering whether to try waking him when I go to bed and putting him
on the toilet, though he hates being woken so may react badly, or may not be
willing to try - eg this morning he woke at 5:15, and I asked him if he wanted
to go - he said no, and I put him back to bed.  When he woke 1.5 hours later,
he had wet the bed!

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Carol Gilroy

    Hi,
    
         I also have similar questions and am interested in any
    advice/replies to this note.  My son is 4 and I'm not sure how to
    go about night training.  He had 2 dry nights out of about 14.  He
    seems to also wet closer to the morning.  Should I keep letting
    him try or put him back in diapers?  I don't want him to feel
    punished but I can't keep up with the laundry.
    
    				Mary

    2 yrs 10 months is awfully young to expect dry nights consistently.
    Spock, and all the other baby experts target age 4 as the time to work
    on staying dry through the night. It varies by child and by deepness of
    sleep.
    
    I'd personally drop the night time goal and keep him in pull ups for a
    while. If he consistently stays dry for perhaps a couple months then
    wean him from the pullups. 
    
    The other thing you can do is ensure that he goes to the bathroom to
    pee right before sleeptime.
    best wishes
    Lynn
    

    I'm sure my replies about Chris are throughout this string, but he's
    since outgrown this (when he was about 7). but now we're dealign with
    it with Jason (7.5) - UGH!  So, I'm certainly no expert in this arena,
    except to offer .... if you're thinking that you want to wake him up,
    ASK HIM about it before he goes to bed. 
    
    Do you want to wear a nappy?
    NO!
    Well, if I wake you up in the middle of the night, will you try to be
    good and go pee?
    NO!
    Well, then you have to wear a nappy
    NO!  (hey, he's two, right? (-;)
    
    Seriously, if you can get him to agree to this ahead of time, you might
    have less friction at night waking him.
    
    My kids - a bomb could drop on their heads in the midst of the night,
    and they wouldn't wake up! (except Jonathan who's 22 mos and been
    waking up dry every morning for ~1-2 mos ... go figure!)
    
    Good Luck!

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I tried waking him at my bedtime, and put him on the toilet, where he sat and
sobbed for about 10 minutes while I was trying to get him to wee.  I kept 
asking him whether he wanted to do a wee, or wear a nappy, and he kept saying
"wee", but didn't do one. I don't think he woke up fully - he does sleep very
deeply.

So I gave up, and he's now back in nappies, (which incidentally are usually
dry!)  I'm going to try again in a couple of months when he's a bit older.

Thanks for the advice

Carol.

Things I found helpful with David

1.  The sound of ruuning water
2.  Cheating.  

    Take a cup or so of warm water (I used to use a pot-plant watering can 
    with a long spout.) Pour warm water over the unco-operative appendage.
    I can _just about_ guarantee that this works.  (It unfortunately also used 
    to make David a bit inaccurate with his aim - largely because he was 
    giggling like a maniac)


Chele

    
    
    Well, I'm happy to say that my son Nicholas (will be 3 1/2 the end
    of this month) has been accident free for about a month now
    (even at nite) except for bowel movements.
    
    He shows no interest in having a bowel movement in the toilet.
    I've even got him a potty seat to do his bowel movements in and
    he refuses to use it.  He will hold his bowels up to 2 or 3 days
    and then go in his underpants.  He will tell me right away that
    he did 'poo poo' in his pants.  I bought him the 'Once upon a
    potty' book and read it to him a million times.  I've gotten
    stickers, M &M's, tried just about everything and nothing seems
    to work.  
    
    If I ask him if he has to go 'poo poo', he says, 'no, it's all
    gone' (and he hasn't even gone yet).  
    
    The other problem is, is when he holds it for too long and he
    gets a stomach ache.  We've put a diaper on him just so he
    can go and not have to hold it anymore and he won't go in
    his diaper.  When he's told me that he's got a stomach ache,
    I've brought him to the bathroom and sat him on the toilet.
    He then says, 'no, I don't have to go' and continues to hold
    it.  5 minutes later, he'll go in his underpants (he'll go
    in the underpants but not in his diaper.  he says, 'diapers
    are for babies').  So, I'm at my wits end.  Any suggestions
    as to what I should do??
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

    3 1/2 is roughly the age of control issues, so it becomes more than
    just a potty training thing.  Talk with your pediatrician/family
    practitioner, and also ask them for suggestions on a psychologist to
    talk with.  This is a tough one, since the more you may pressure or
    encourage the more reluctant your son may become, making it an even
    more difficult issue.  There are lots of behavioral things you can do
    (reward system, self clean up when it happens, even providing a diaper
    if the child wants it,) but a medical/psych professional could help you
    put together a plan, as well as explore with you any subtle
    frustration/anger/push/anguish you might be inadvertently (and
    understandably) communicating to your son through all this.
    
    I have a good friend whose son did not bowel train til 4 yrs 11 months
    - took many steps and much perseverance but he finally accomplished it.  
    
    I wish you well.
    

    
    I forgot to mention that I did talk to my pedi. and he said that
    possibly he is afraid of the toilet and thinks he may get flushed
    down or something.  He suggest getting a potty seat and rewarding
    him with M&M's.  I've done both and neither work.
    
    I'll admit that I'm pretty frustrated about this but I'm trying
    my hardest not to let Nicholas know how frustrated I am.  It'll
    just stress him out even more.
    
    My mother told me  (A friend of a friend kind of
    thing) that a little girl was rushed to Children's hospital
    in Boston because she held her BM's for 2 weeks!!  
    When my son held it for 3 days, I told my husband that if he
    didn't go by the 4th day, that I'd give him a child enima
    (thankfully I didn't have to do that).  I couldn't imagine
    letting my child hold it for 2 weeks.  Some people have no
    common sense..
    
    Thanks for your help,
    Chris

    
    Just to add to this, obviously you are not alone. My son at
    just about the same age 3 1/2 decided that he was not going
    to go "poo" anymore. He was holding it for 3-4 days at a time
    and when he finally went, in his underpants he was in a lot of
    pain and without getting too graphic, we had to have a plunger
    handy when we flushed the toilet.
    
    What my pedi had us do, was give him 1-2 tablespoons of mineral oil
    every morning so that it would not hurt so much and therefore he
    was more willing to go. The other tactic we used was putting stickers
    and stars on his own calendar to indicate when he went. The pedi had
    us bring this calendar to our appointments to show his progress. He
    was very proud of his accomplishments. 
    
    Even now at almost 5 next month, he still has trouble sometimes and
    gets skid marks (which by the way he is very self-conscience of and
    needs to change his underwear right away) and we either give him some
    extra roughage that day or some of his "water medicine" (mineral oil).
    
    Good luck,
    
    Sharon 

    Add one more 3 yr old to that list of "no poopoo in potty". Neel turned
    3 in May and uses the potty for "weewee" very independently. He has no
    accidents and does not need any help. However, he does not want to go
    poopoo in the potty. His problem is that he gets grossed out and throws
    up. So when he wants to go he asks for a diaper and then goes on all
    day and nite without a diaper. There is nothing we can do but let him
    grow out of it. He used to get grossed out while peeing in the potty
    but he seems to have gotten over that. So time will take care of the
    other.
    
    Shaila

Chris,

Best of luck.  I had such a hard time with Noelle and chronic
constipation that I was always thrilled when she went -- even
if it was in her underpants.  If this is a control issue, you
may just need to wait it out.  Maybe if you just say something
like "Oh, your pants are dirty again.  Let's get you cleaned up."
And, if there's something he hates about getting cleaned up, you
might mention that when he uses his potty chair, he won't have
to deal with the whatever-it-is he hates.  

The hard part is figuring out his view of this whole thing
and discovering something he doesn't like so that you can
explain how using a potty chair or the toilet is better
*from*his*perspective*.  

Again, good luck!

- Deb B.

Update on .202

I put Sean (age 2.10) back into nappies, which he seemed to accept ok, but 
5 days later he decided for himself that he didn't want to wear nappies 
at night any more.  Ever since then he has been dry every night!

I was concerned that it was a backwards step to put him back into nappies,
but in fact it seems to have taken the pressure off him so that he could
make his own decision not to wear them - and it has worked!  This is in
spite of him usually drinking a lot of milk just before bedtime.

I also took down the star chart - my health visitor said he was a bit young
for it (more suitable for 3-4 year olds), and it was probably too much
pressure for him.

So, sometimes what seems like a backwards step can be the right thing to do.

Carol Gilroy.

    
       I don't know if I already wrote this in here. But, a few weeks
    ago (I was going to put it in the funny things kids do string, but
    it has to do with 'potty' stuff). Well, my grandson did a very
    'large' one and he wanted me to see it. So, I went into the bathroom
    and said. "Good for you! That's a really good one!" 
    
       He said. "I don't get it, if it's so good why are you going to
    have me flush it down the toilet. If it's so good I think I should
    be allowed to keep it." I was trying not to laugh but explained to
    him how it was stuff our body didn't need anymore. It was a way
    for our body to clean itself out. 
    
        So, he figured out it's 'bad' stuff that our body doesn't need.
    He said. "Then if it's stuff our body doesn't need , then it's not
    'good'. Hmmm, now I REALLY don't get it. Why would you want me
    to say it's a good one?" 
    
    
         The more I tried to explain it the more questions he had. I
    never know what he's going to say next!
    
          Rosie

    Not sure where to put this, but since it's a little bit about training,
    I'll put it here.
    
    My son-in-law had a legitimate question that I didn't have an answer
    for (wonder of wonders!!)  Right now, his little girl is still in
    diapers, but when she's trained, and he's out with her alone, i.e. to
    the mall, etc., what **does** he do when she has to go to the bathroom?
    
    I mean, I see women bringing their little boys into the Ladies' Rooms, 
    (some big boys, too); but he can't do that, I don't think.  He would
    never ask someone to watch her in a Ladies' Room. 
    
    What are his options?  Go home?  Bring a portable and leave it in the
    car?  Any ideas?  What have other Dads done?
    
    Thanks,
    Lorraine

    My husband was home w/ our 2 girls (til 1st was 3 1/2 and 2nd was 1
    1/2). If he was out somewhere, he'd just take them in the men's room
    and use the 'stall'. I think he may have chosen to use the department
    store ones (vs. the ones on the Mall food-court (more crowded), if he
    had a choice....

    This came up for us recently because my husband took our 5 year old to
    visit his parents for a few days.  He was worried about the 3 hour car
    ride, knowing that he would need to use the restroom.  He is private
    about that and is not comfortable with the thought of her being in the
    same stall with him.
    
    I suggested that he take her into the mens room and get two adjoining
    stalls.  That way, each of them could go and he could be sure that she
    was safe.
    
    This only works because she is old enough to follow instructions.  I
    wouldn't try it with a 2-year old.
    
    judy

    Behind the food court at the Burlington Mall (in Mass.) there is a mens 
    room, a ladies room and a family bathroom.  (I think it was called 
    something like that, it's been a while since I've used it.)  
    
    It's a good size single bathroom that's perfect for changing diapers and
    for moms or dads to use with little ones.
    
    Unfortunately, that's the only one I've ever seen.
    
    Gail
    
    

    Thanks for the suggestions...I will definitely pass them along.  I
    think he'll be more comfortable knowing what other fathers are doing.
    (He's the only young father in the family....and group of friends!)
    
    Lorraine

    I have a question on potty training.....
    
    To start with my little one is physically challenged, so it is not
    always easy to get to her to/in a bathroom when we are out.
    
    She said that she is too OLD to wear diapers, but loves her pull ups. 
    We made the rule that if she doesn't dirty the pull ups, she can wear
    them.  If she dirtys them she has to wear a diaper.  (only exception is
    when we are out and can't get to a potty).  All of a sudden she will
    not tell us if she has had an accident or needs to use the potty.  She
    will sit in a wet pull up for a long time....we ask every 45 minutes to
    an hour if she has to go...are we being too strict and she is fighting
    us??
    
    Kathi
      

    Our day care center requested that we take our daughter (almost 3) out
    of pull ups and go back to diapers, explaining that it didn't make her
    a baby.  Within 2 months she is completely potty learned and wears
    cloth undie day and night.  One day she just went in to her drawer and
    took out panties telling me she didn't want to wear diapers any more,
    but wanted panties.  We bought Pocahantas and Pooh Bear panties as a
    special incentive.  No that she didn't have accidents now and then, but
    it happened on its own, with a few reminders from Mom, Dad and teacher. 
    
    If your child can not make it to a bathroom in public, keep a potty
    seat in your trunk.  Several of our friends did this and it works for
    them.  ONe friend says it is sort of dificult trying to get your child
    to use a "port-a-potty-seat" on the side of a freeway though.
    
    Keep in mind, as my MIL says, "this too will pass".

    It's obvius to me that your daughter wants the pull-ups, and doesn't
    want to go back to diapers.  Maybe a shot at what we did with Atlehi
    will work for you.  (This may seem awful to some people, but this is
    our third and none of our kids has become ax murderers or overly
    manipulative yet.)
    
    Atlehi loved "big girl pants" but also didn't always make it to the
    potty in time.  Instead of going back to diapers, (I found the older
    two resisted this and it created issues like you are having) we got
    rolls of candy and gave her one or two each time she made it to the
    potty before the pants were wet, explaining that the candy was there
    for that purpose.  There were some tears when she didn't get the candy,
    but she picked up on how to get it, and went from pretty resistant to
    completely trained over a week using this method.  
    
    for the other two, the big girl pants were enough of an incentive,
    however the little savage prefers no clothes to wearing them and she
    knew how to get her diapers off, so this form of positive reenforcement
    (bribery, let's not mince words) worked.
    
    Good luck,
    
    meg

    re: .220
    Meg,
    While I'm never against any method that works -- how long did you need
    to do this for Atelhi? Was there a problem stopping the reward? A
    friend of mine used that method and was still giving her daughter candy
    a year later.
    Thanks,
    Sue

    Hi Sue,
    
    The candy just sort of gets phased out.  (Kind of like weaning) she
    asks for it sometimes after she goes potty, and sometimes doesn't and I
    don't "remember" to get it if she doesn't ask.  I try not to make
    sudden transitions with children, as mine don't react well to rapid
    changes, and I am not good about "cold turkey" on anything myself. 
    ;-)/2
    
    meg

    Another good "bribery" item that we use is stickers.  I try hard in our
    family not to use food as a reward.  The stickers worked really well. 
    My daughter got to coose a sticker from the basket when she used the
    potty in time, and when she had an accident she had to give back her
    sticker collection until the next time she used the potty.  She cried
    the first time, but after that understood that she would get them back
    after the next success.
    
    Good Luck!

    re .223
    
    Sticker didn't work for us.  In fact it resulted in her removing
    stickers from Carrie's collection, which created more uproar than was
    ever needed in our household.  (when you have several kids in a small
    household, possesions can get pretty important.)
    
    the candy is more and more forgotten now. (Three weeks from the start.)
    However, the potty usage is consistant, and the diaper service training
    pants will be replaced by our training pants within the month.
    
    meg

    My daughter *loves* candy, but we had no problem by saying that once
    the bag ran out, that was that.
    
    She was under 3, though.  I'm not sure how well that would work with an
    older child.
    
    judy

    
    
    My son is having a problem with having normal bowel movements.
    Other than that, he is fully potty trained.  The problem is,
    he's either afraid or just plain doesn't like doing #2 so
    he holds it.  He's the type that really needs to go on a daily
    basis (this was the case when he was in diapers).  Now, he
    hold it for 3 days, complains that he has a stomach ache
    (obviously because he's constipated) and will sit on the 
    toilet but nothing will come out. This usually happens on
    the 2nd day and by the 3rd day, it will finally happen but
    with a lot of pain and with very hard, large stools.
    Last nite, my husband said that it was so bad (I was not
    home at the time) that Nicholas was screaming and the
    stool would not come out.  Thankfully, I had a child enima
    in the medicine cabinet and my husband had to use it. My
    husband was so nervous he almost called the doctor because
    he didn't know what to do.  In a few minutes the enima worked
    and Nicholas felt better.
    
    I've tried to explain to Nicholas that if he went every day
    that it would not hurt at all.  He now associates pain with
    a bowel movement and I believe that's why he holds it.  He's
    a very strong minded kid.  I have been putting wheat germ
    on his cereal in the morning because I heard that was make
    it easier for him to go.  It doesn't seem to be making
    any difference.  This has been going on for a good month now.
    
    If anyone has any suggestions or advice, I'd really appreciate
    it.  I know that 'this too shall pass' but I'd like to help
    make it a not so painful experience for him.
    
    Thanks,
    Chris

My daughter had a similar problem when she was little.  The doctor gave us an
approach that worked pretty well:  Occasional Senekot liquid, child
suppositories if the situation was really bad, and a sticker reward for each
day that she had a bowel movement, with some prize for filling up a page.  It
took quite a while to get off the system, but it was effective.  Good luck!

						Brian

    
    My daughter had this problem also (still does occasionally). We fed
    her "tasty fruit", prunes cut up into bite size pieces. She liked them
    and they made it easier for her to go. Does your son like raisins???
    We just told Anna that they were like giant raisins and she dubbed them
    tasty fruit.
    
    Patty

    
    My daughter just turned 18mos the other day and has been using the
    potty chair for about a week.  She sits on it in the morning and in
    the evening and she urinates each time.  We congratulate her and give
    her some praise.  We broke down and bought a potty chair after she
    almost went head first into the toilet.  
    
    Do you think she's too young to start training?  Or should we let
    her continue her routine and let her go at her own pace?
    
    Kim
    

    She already did start training - you were smart enough to catch on and
    let her go at her own pace already!  Keep up with her and you are all
    set.  She'll tell you what she needs.  The more it's her deal, the
    easier it will be for both of you.

    The only way it would be "too early" would be if she wasn't showing an
    interest and you were pushing her to use the potty.  A wise woman I
    know said that she believes potty usage is a developmental stage, just
    like walking, talking, or any of the other hundred things children
    learn in their first years.  When the child is ready he or she will
    start on her own, and only a little positive reenforcement is needed. 
    I think it must be true, as I did the same things with all three of my
    kids and they all became consistant potty users at different ages, just
    as all three walked at different ages, started talking at different
    ages........
    
    Don't worry be hapy, you may be out of diapers and on to new challenges
    any day now.
    
    meg

    Thank you!  I guess it was all the articles I've been reading that say
    children really don't become ready until 2 1/2 - 3+.  We are going to
    continue to congratulate her and offer praise, but for now we are 
    letting her do "all" the initiating of using the potty.  If she keeps
    interested and continues to show progress then we'll start with the
    encouragment and reminders.
    
    Geez, I know somedays I could use a reminder :')
    
    Kim

    
    I've got a couple of questions about toilet training Lauren.
    
    Lauren turned 2 on 12/3.  Since about that time, she has been
    peeing in her potty.  She is up to about four times a day on
    the weekends and maybe twice a day during the weekdays.  My
    daycare provider isn't trying as hard with her since she has 4 
    or 5 girls all training at the same time. It is really too 
    much for her to handle so the majority of training needs to
    come from the parents.
    
    Lauren is rewarded everytime she goes potty.  She gets stickers
    from her me and candy at daycare. Lauren never tells
    me if she has to go.  I always have to ask and if she says
    yes, she will always go.  She expects applause and stickers 
    when she goes and even applauds me when I go!  And if she
    does not have to go, she won't try usually.  She has no interest
    in pooping on the potty.  I always know when she is doing poops
    because she disappears and if I go after her to urge her to use
    the potty, she tells me to "go away".
    
    Anyhow, I think we are making really good progress.  I just don't
    know what to do next!  She is still in diapers and since I have
    about 5 packages left, we're finishing them first, before moving
    to pullups.  I've already got a supply waiting.  When is she ready to
    "finish training"?  Do I wait until she starts telling me she
    has to go?  I was thinking, when the weather gets warmer, to
    go cold turkey into underwear, except at night.  She sometimes
    complains about using the potty because the seat is cold hence
    the reason to wait for warmer weather.  
    
    Timing is an issue.  Lauren will become a big sister in June.
    I'll be taking the whole summer off and that might be a good
    time to get her fully trained but I'm thinking I should get her
    trained by March or April at the latest due to the fact that
    she could regress when the new baby arrives.   
    
    Any suggestions would be appreciated!
    
    Karen
    

    re: .233
    
    Karen,
    
    Sounds like we're going through a similar situation.  My son
    is 2.5 and will pee on the potty (once or twice at daycare, 
    more on the weekends).  He does tell me that he has to go,
    but only when he's either naked, or wearing a pull-up.  So
    I do encourage you try taking her out of diapers to see if 
    she'll start telling you.  My son won't poop on the potty
    either.  It's sort of funny though... he has a "spot" that he
    goes to when he has to poop.  He blocks himself into his toy
    area, and will - like your daughter - tell me to go away if
    I try to approach him.  He has no interest in going poops on
    the potty.. .although he did try once without success.  He's
    not afraid to tell me when he's done... he even asks me to 
    change him.  This, to me, is a definite sign of READINESS. It's
    hard for us because he's with my M-I-L 2 days a week, daycare
    3-days/wk, and with us on the weekend.  To be consistent between
    all these people is a task in and of itself!
     
    We don't do too much rewarding, other than some high-fives,
    a few cheers, and every now and then a sticker.  So he's 
    not used to getting a treat, just some major excitement from
    mom and dad (and his grandma if she has witnessed the "event").
    
    One thing that I've found very helpful is to NOT ask him if
    he has to go, but rather remind him to tell me when he has to
    go.  This seems to be working well... even if he tells me 2
    seconds after I give the reminder, it's getting him into the
    habit of saying "I have to go pee now". 
    
    I, like you, am expecting another baby in June.. so that is
    quite a motivator when it comes to potty training.  I'd love 
    to have him out of diapers (at least during the day) by June!
    
    For those who have potty trained shortly before a new baby...
    is it common for the toddler to regress (with potty training
    and other things like sleeping in a bed, etc).? Just wondering.
    
    Julie
    

    Hi,
    
    I know that the thought of no more diapers sounds wonderful, but be careful
    not to be fooled.  When you first take off those diapers, it can be
    very stressful.  Leaving the house for any activity can be worrisome;
    you're always worring about possible accidents, finding a potty in
    time, bringing lots of changes of clothes, etc.
    
    I wouldn't rush the potty training process if I were you.  Especially
    if you have a new baby coming and there's a possibility of regression. 
    We used diapers until our kids were able to tell us when they needed to
    go or go when we asked them if they needed to.  Then we switched to
    pull-ups.  We stayed with the pull-ups until the kids stayed mostly dry
    during the day.  They we did pull-ups only at nighttime.  The nighttime
    pull-ups went away after the kids stayed dry for two weeks straight.  
    
    My son was consistently peeing on the potty since he was 3-years old,
    but until he was 4,  he insisted on pooping in his diaper.  We didn't
    make an issue of it.  We put on and changed his diaper when he
    requested.  One day, he just decided to try it on the potty, and it was
    no diapers since.
    
    My daughter peed and pooped on the potty since she was 2.5 years old.
    Aside from getting excited and giving hugs and kisses, we never gave
    rewards to our kids, though they did occasionally get stickers at
    school.
    
    - Sheryl

    Seems like our daycare trained many of the kids (and parents).  
    Lauren's teacher put up a sheet of construction paper with Lauren's
    name on it (there were some others training at the same time).  It was
    right by the bathroom.  When she was successful, she got a sticker to
    put on the sheet herself.  It took quite a few stickers to fill up that
    sheet.  When the sheet was full the kids knew they got to go to the
    Disney store and pick out anything they wanted.  Lauren was 3 when she
    decided to train - annouced she wanted to wear panties to school.  It 
    took about 1 week.  We did the same routine at home.
    
    BTW...Lauren's teacher let us know she got 1/2 price off at the Disney
    store - I was worried about the cost and discussed with her.  Lauren
    adores her teacher, combining that with a little peer group pressure
    she worked real hard on using the potty.

    I tend to agree with Sheryl's note.
    
    Chelsea turned 3 last may and was showing some signs of readiness, but
    it seemed that I was the one more determined to get her trained and
    also stressing out a little bit at the time factor.  I started to ease
    off and come back to the place that she will do what she needs to do
    when she is ready...at that point everybody started doing better.
    
    Chelsea was in daycare fulltime and our daycare mom was not really into
    potty training, so consistency at home and daycare was a problem.  
    Actually I learned it was never really a problem, because when Chelsea
    was ready to finally "Do It", didn't matter about consistency..she took
    the whole thing in her control....always was, I just wanted to believe
    I had the steering wheel.
    
    Chelsea started KinderCare at 3 years 3 months and on the third day of
    school informed me that she did not want to wear pull ups and she
    wanted her big girl underwear.  After a month of no accidents and a 
    pullup at night, we went to undies at night.  Along that line, as a 
    parent I have learned several things for night time potty learning.
    
    1.  Chelsea is a heavy drinker, so dinner time fluids are restricted
        to 6 oz of milk and then water is offered.
    
    2.  When your child has a bad cold and is taking medicine (and just
        recently mastered potty learning) put a pullup on them at night,
        cuz they sleep so heavy it is hard for them to wake.
    
    3.  When they fall asleep at 6:00 on a Saturday night, be prepared to
        wake them (unless your child can go 12-14 hours without peeing!)
    
    
    4.  Last..but relating to #3...when Chelsea was still having problems
        waking up at night, I set my alarm for 2:00am each morning and
        took her to the potty.  After two weeks, it now seems she is 
        setting her own clock when needed and she wakes around 2:00 to
        3:00 and calls out for me.
    
    Sorry to rattle so much.  But potty training for Chelsea (who is our
    first) has been a real learning experience for me. Our second child
    is due in May and I am glad that this will be one area that like
    all other things...i.e. crawling, walking, getting rid of the pacifier,
    and using the potty... all do happen when the time is right!
    
    ..Lori

    My oldest has been trained since she was 2.5.  She also showed
    interest and went on the potty when asked just before she turned 2. 
    But, after about 1-2 months of this, she lost all interest.  We asked
    the pedi about it and were told that it's completely normal.  It's a
    phase of seeing what she can do and now that she knew she could, she
    was ready to move on to new things.  He advised us to just drop back to
    diapers and wait for a sign that she was truly ready.  We were told
    that to try pushing the issue would only become a power struggle that
    we could not win.
    
    Well, we followed is advice and sure enough, it worked!  About 6 months
    later she came home and asked for "big girl pants" like one of the
    other girls in her room at daycare.  We made the deal with her that if
    she stayed dry for 3 days in a row with no accidents, we'd go shopping.
    During those days, she could wear pullups.  Well, it took only 5 days
    to for her to succeed (we didn't count accidents during naps).  We went
    shopping and she's been in panties ever since.  Note, we still had
    accidents during naps for about another 1.5 years and she's still in
    pullups at night (a VERY sound sleeper!), but no more problems during
    the day.
    
    So, my advice, don't rush it.  She may loose interest and that's okay. 
    Meanwhile, don't get stressed out about it and don't let this become a
    struggle between the two of you.
    
    Irene

	Hi,

	I'm glad this string got active again, because I think we're ready
	to try the underpants.  Here's the situation.  Kristen is 2yrs 9months.
	For about 6months now she's gone on and off on the potty, mostly
	pee.  The last 2 months or so, she's gone every few days.  She tells
	me she has to pee, I help her with her pants and put the onsie up
	in her shirt so it doesn't get wet and she goes.  She likes to use
	the regular toilet and has only gone in her potty a few times.  This
	is fine with me, she can hold herself up or use a stool, and she
	likes privacy and tells me to "go away".  In the past 2 weeks she's
	been going poop in the toilet every few days.  In the past few
	days she's been peeing and pooping a lot in the toilet and only
	during naps, night time and once or twice during the day in her diaper.
	
	She already has underpants that grandma has given her and she always
	wants to wear them.  So we let her wear them over her diaper if she
	goes pee in the morning in the toilet.

	I think we're ready to try going to just underpants (with rubber
	pants over them) during the day and still the diaper at night.
	I'm only in the office Tue & Wed.  So if I start this Thurs, I 
	figured I could be consistent with her until next Monday and then
	maybe the babysitter will have an easier time of it. My attitude
	has always been "when she's ready she'll do it" and we encourage
	her and praise her when she goes, but we don't do stickers or anything.
	We've just been waiting for her and haven't really pushed the issue,
	but is she ready now?

	My question is, do you think it is a good idea to try this now?
	I know there will be a lot of accidents at first and I'm ready
	for it.  Or do I wait until she always has a dry diaper?

	My second question is, If I try this now and after a week or so,
	she's not going anymore often in the toilet and is still having a lot of 
	accidents, should I just go back to diapers and wait a while, or
	should I stick with it until we have success?

	Thanks for any advice,
	Karen

    re .-1 
    
    Go for it - sounds like she's ready.
    
    Try this approach to help ingrain the habit;
    
    Give her LOTS to drink.  About every hour, tell her to try to go. 
    Don't ask if she has to go, just bring her in, and tell her "It's time
    to try to go potty" or something like that.  Because if you ASK every
    hour, in an hour and 5 mins she'll have to go, and will pee her pants
    (-:  OOOPS!
    
    Maybe set a timer or something, so that she knows without you
    "hounding" (and so you don't forget).  If you have a timer (windup?)
    that SHE can set, she'll probably like it more!  And just explain to
    her - until she gets used to the feeling of "having to go", you're
    going to try it this way for a while.  Eventually she'll start telling
    you she does/doesn't have to go, and sort of go with it from there.
    
    At least that's what's worked for me (of course Jonathan's almost 2.5,
    and I haven't done a darn thing with him - I'm too lazy to wash wet
    snowsuits/coats and deal with wet boots.  I train my kids in the
    summer.)
    
    Sounds like she's really interested and ready though - give it a whirl
    for a few days.  If she's not interested, drop it till later.  If she's
    making progress, then try to keep it up.
    
    Get those clapping-hands and amazed-looks ready - you'll need them! (-:
    

    
    We had a recent "breakthrough" with Lauren and her potty training!
    I previously said that she doesn't tell me when she has to got
    potty but lately, she says "I poopy" very often.  That USED to mean
    she had a poopy diaper that needed changing.  Now it appears to 
    mean that she has to urinate!  So I offer her the potty and she
    usually goes!  However, if she really is "poopy" or about to
    "poop" she still tells me to go away.
    
    This AM, Lauren wanted to use the potty but it was too cold!  What
    do you folks do about cold potty seats?  Teach them to "grin and
    bear it"?  Warm it up?  I did that once with my hands and now she
    tries to get me to do it all the time.  I don't think thats such
    a good idea.  And my husband covered her lap with a towel another
    time and she thought that was a great idea but I don't!
    
    Karen

    	Hi. I have a 2 year old boy, Kyle. He has been using his potty for
    quite some time now, but only to go "pee-pee". I never forced him to
    use it, nor made him sit on it.
    	The other day he decided he had to go "poopie", so I said "Would
    you like to use the potty?" And he said yes. So I brought him into the
    bathroom, he sat on it (the first time!) and pushed, but nothing came
    out. His usual "poop time" is hiding somewhere in the house, in a
    corner, in his room, and won't let anyone near him until he done.
    	Well, tonight(and once before) he pooped in the tub during a bath.
    Both times he did this, he tried to keep it a secret by not saying
    anything and hiding the poop. The first time he decedied to throw the
    poop onto the bathroom floor. 
    	My question is, how to I get him to understand when to go and
    where? He does understand, and he knows where it goes but he doesn't
    seem to be able to control it. When he has to pee, he tells me and he
    jolds it in until he gets to the potty. If he can feel the sensations
    of having to pee, can he feel the sensations of having to poop? 
    	I know time will tell, and he is still young to be fully potty
    trained. But I'd like some feedback on what approaches you people have
    taken at this stage.
    	Thanks,      Katy
    
    

    
    I've been fortunate both times, my kids just seemed to have that one
    figured out.
    
    I've heard though, that some times when kids think they're PUSHING,
    they're actually squeazing shut.  Maybe a different alternative would
    be, if he poops around the same time, or is at all predictable, have
    him sit on the pot, and read him a book.  Tell him not to TRY, but just 
    to see what happens.  Some more "relaxed" time, just sitting there, is
    apt to get some results, and once he SEES the result, he's more likely
    to put the actions together, than trying to use words.
    
    Hey - how do you even explain pushing, being clear to not confuse it
    with squeazing??  I couldn't do it for an adult, much less a 2 year
    old.  UNLESS, you told him to try to make his belly as big as he can -
    that sort of causes a pushing "side affect" ... kinda.
    
    

    
    	I don't think pushing is very good advice for anyone, child or
    adult. My nephews are 4 and 5 , they were told to just sit and wait, if
    you felt the poop coming, then let it come....but don't push it out. 
    	It could cause bleeding anyways. 
    
    				$.02

    
    
    Lauren decided to potty train this week!  Its amazing.  A couple of
    weeks ago, I put her in training pants and she never asked to go
    potty.  She just kept having accidents and wouldn't say a thing (but
    she would start walking with her legs apart).
    
    Since then, and previous to that, on the weekends, we put her in
    training pants until she had one accident.  There was no second try
    for that day.  This past weekend, I put her in a pull-up and told
    her they were underpants too and emphasized that she was not to
    go potty in them.  I don't know what happened, but it finally sunk
    in!  She started telling me when she had to go!  So, on Monday, she
    went to daycare in a pull-up and came home in the same one!  She
    had one accident and I'm not sure when but probably on the way home.
    Yesterday, she went to day care in a pullup and came home in training
    pants.  No accidents!  Today, she is in training pants and I've got
    my fingers crossed!  I'm going out at lunch today to buy her some
    "big girl" underwear.
    
    Now for the question... when can I relax about accidents?  I'm afraid
    to go out in public with her because I don't know what she'll do
    about using a normal toilet seat (we tried this weekend with no
    success).  And what about around the house?  When can I stop yanking
    her off the new couch ... I don't know how I would ever get urine out
    of it!  I just don't trust her with this yet. In fact, I really am
    surprised that she is training this week.  We weren't even gonna
    try again seriously until after the baby was born but all of a sudden
    she decided to do it herself! 
    
    Another question... I know there is a possibility of regressing
    when the baby is born.  I thought of one thing that might prevent
    that.  What if I avoid changing the baby in her presence.  That
    way she would not associate diapers with special attention to the
    baby.  Is that a good idea?
    
    Karen
         

    Karen,
    
    A friend of mine keeps the potty in the trunk of her car for those 
    emergency times. I can't help thinking there must be a better way.
    Natasha is only 14 months so I don't have to worry about that yet.
    
                                                 Alice

	Karen,

	Hooray for Lauren (and you)!  When Kristen was training I bought
	the thick underwear (training pants) and rubber pants to put over
	them.  I explained that this is what a big girl wore and she accepted
	that because she had never seen the regular (thin) underpants with 
	Pooh or Barney, etc on them.  Then my mom bought her some big girl 
	regular underpants with Barney on them and she wanted to wear those.
	Our rule was, you can start out the day with Barney (thin) and the 
	rubberpants over them, after one accident we go to the training pants
	(thick) with rubberpants over them.  We did this for about a week or
	two at the most and she was only having an occasional accident (Oh,
	if she was on her way to the bathroom when the accident occured we let
	her wear a new pair of Barney, since she was really trying to get there)
        So after about 2weeks, since she was doing really great I took her
	shopping with me and she chose some Pooh underpants and we had the
	same rule with these as the Barney.  I'd say after about 3weeks she
	wasn't wearing the thick training pants anymore, but I still kept
	the rubberpants over the underwear for a few more weeks (just in case).
	Then she was fine, probably only had 1 or 2 accidents in the last
	3 weeks of rubberpants, but I was paranoid.

	With either underwear, the rubberpants really kept the urine in
	of course the thick did a better job.  They sell thick underpants
	with designs on them (dogs, or trucks, or clowns, etc) and she 
	was happy with these designs.  When we did this we went to underpants
	(thick or regular w/ the rubberpants) for the day and pull-ups for
	the night. It worked well for us, hope all goes well for Lauren too.
	Oh, a word of warning, if she has an accident becareful wear you take
	the rubber and underpants off, since I found the pee tends to form
	a puddle in the bottom of the rubberpants and can make a mess when
	you take them off.  Of course it wasn't so bad with the thick training
	pants. 

	Oh as far as public toilets go, during the first few weeks whenever
	we went out I would have her try to go before we left the house, 
	when we arrived at the store or restaurant or friends house, while
	we were there (if it was for more than 1/2 - 1 hour) and before we
	left.  Of course not this often if she went, but I'd keep asking.
	I made a big deal in public restrooms of putting the seat protector
	or toilet paper on the toilet and let her flush the toilet.  This
	seemed to make her excited enough about it, to try.  She noticed
	the public toilets were much noisier and she liked this, I suppose
	it could scare some kids thought.  Oh and she loved the soap dispensers
	in the public restrooms and the hot air hand dryers.  So all these
	new things made it interesting to her.
	The whole germ thing in public restrooms kind of freaked me out 
	sometimes, some bathrooms are so dirty.  In these cases, even though
	she had washed her hands, I would sometimes whipe them off with a 
	diaper whipe after we left the bathroom.  Oh whipes are good to carry
	for another reason - poops.  Poops are much easier to clean up with
	a whipe than with toilet paper.

	Good Luck,
	Karen T.

    Karen,
    
    My daughter is toilet training too.  We had taken the diapers away and
    just use underwear, except at first she could have a diaper at night. 
    We soon realized that she is dry everynight and now she uses underwear
    for bed too.  We haven't been using a little potty for her since her's
    broke and she's been fine.  At first we would bring her into the
    bathroom and encourage her to go, but now she knows when she needs to
    go, but many times wouldn't make it in time.  I would hear her running into
    the bathroom and then that sigh of dissapointment when she didn't make
    it in time. I've noticed over the last 3 days she is making it to the
    bathroom in time, which she's extremely proud of.
    
    As far as the couch and carpet, I just can't worry about that, ours is
    old anyway.  If it's not being peed on then juice is being spilt or
    some such thing.  I just use liquid laundry detergent and scrub.  Maybe
    one of those carpet cleaners that washes and then sucks all the excess
    water up after would work on your couch.  I don't know how much they
    cost, for all I know it may cost the same as a new couch, but not
    likely.
    
    When I take her out I make sure there are bathrooms where ever we are
    going and take her in periodically throughout the trip.  It seems to be
    working.
    
    Our problem is she still is going poo in her pants.  She can't seem to
    relax to do it in the bathroom.  She prefers to hide in dark corners
    and squat! She has used the potty for this before and she knows that
    what she's supposed to do.  I just have to think of a way to get her to
    do it, without being too pushy.
    
    Marianne
            
    

    
    Lauren tries to poop EVERYTIME she is on the potty!  Its kind of
    funny and she usually manages to squeak out a little pebble.  This
    is only something in the past couple of weeks.  Prior to that, she
    used to have a fit if I tried to put her on the potty.
    
    Lauren can't go potty by herself.  Her motor skills are a little
    lacking for her age and she just can't get her pants down or back
    up.  However, she makes up for her lack of motor skills with 
    great verbal skills!
    
    I'll have to look into rubber pants.  I'm just too paranoid about
    my new couch!
    
    Lauren loves that Once Upon a Potty book.  I think it helped... she
    relates to Prudence and tells me about her.  I personally don't like
    reading it and my husband hates it!  Cracks me up when she makes
    him read it to her.  He rewords the whole book just to get through
    it!
    
    Karen

    
    A million years ago, when my kids were training, Sears used to sell
    rubber pants, that were terrycloth lined.  Makes them much less
    "sweaty", and also gives some more absorbtion.  They used to run *HUGE*
    though, so if you buy some, really look at them to check the size.
    
    I train my kids in the summer, without exception. I'd be struggling if
    Jonathan suddenly decided he wanted to try.  I guess I'm just too lazy
    to be bothered with all that laundry from warm clothes.  Take some time
    off in the summer, strip 'em down to shorts/undies, give them lots to
    drink, and bring them in to the toilet constantly (1x/hr).  I think it
    took about 2-3 weeks before I felt comfortable, and then they'd always
    have another accident to SURPRISE me!  
    
    Maybe you could get Lauren her own comfortable chair, instead of the
    couch?  Aside from being nuts for buying a new couch with a 2 yr old in
    the house ... (-:  maybe this would help her feel "bigger".  One of
    those flip-out chairs or something, or offer it as a reward for doing
    so well.  Don't even need to mention that you're paranoid about your
    couch!  Then if she ruins that, it's $30.00 instead of hundreds ....
    I know that Wal-mart has some REALLY cute ones!! (and some pretty small
    ones you could squeeze in without much trouble).
    
    -Patty

I've read all 250 replies to this section and even read most in the
PARENTING_V3 file and I'm almost at my wits end.  Does anyone have any words
of advise, please?

Rachel will be 3 at the end of next month.  She has a younger sister (5
months) who she adores so far so I don't think that's the problem.

Although she'll go to the potty some (1-2X/day on some days), other times,
she won't want to use the potty at all.  Yet there are even other times when
she'll just want to sit on the potty for 20-30 minutes at a time without
producing. (I don't make her sit on the potty that long - she won't get up
and has asked to go to the potty!)  She wants you to sit with her and talk 
with her/hold her hand.  -- By the way, we do sit and hold hands other times
so she can't be viewing potty time as a time to sit and hold hands either.

I thought she wasn't ready so I wasn't pushing things - I was trying to just
ignore the entire potty scene for a few weeks but it's not working out that
way.  She enjoys reading her "It's potty Time" book.  She has new Mickey
Mouse and Pooh underwear that she's dying to wear.  Unfortunately, her best
friend in daycare wears her underwear over her diaper so Rachel has to do
that too.  

Now, Rachel is refusing to wear the diaper at all.  However, she likes to
pee all over the floor while wearing the underwear.  I've managed to
convince her to wear the pull-ups with the underwear over them for the past 
two days.  

We've talked about how she can wear her underwear alone as soon as she can
go to the potty regularly but it's not really sinking in.  She helps me
clean up the pee once she's gone on the floor.

She knows she can have a sticker if she goes in the potty.  We also have
both the book and video "Once Upon a Potty" for girls.  

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Alison   

    Alison,
    
    I recommend bribery, although some people don't believe in it.  It has
    worked for all three of my kids.  Atlhi adores Smarties (tm) a little
    sort of sweet-tart thingie.  We used that to get around where the pee
    and other things went.  If it made it to the potty she got a smartie,
    if not, she didn't.  BTW within three weeks she like the potty so well,
    that it no longer needed to be reenforced with anything other than
    praise.  She still likes smarties, but doesn't need them for this
    anymore.  
    
    meg

    Mom the Tyrannical here :-) would reconsider the reasoning that "if
    best friend at daycare wears underwear over diapers, my child must
    do the same".
    
    What worked for my daughter was a quota of 3 big-girl-pants per day.  I
    got the daycare to cooperate with this program, which was simple: Alex
    would stay in underwear until/unless she had gone through (had
    accidents in) 3 pair in the same day.  At that point she would go into
    diapers for the rest of the day.  This made it *her choice*.  Some days
    she'd go through three u-trou in 20 minutes  =8-O  and some days she'd
    make it through the day in the original set of underpants.  YMMV, of
    course.  Good luck!
    
    Leslie

    
    I too would reconsider mimicking the friend's behavior.  I frequently
    say something about "every family makes their own decisions and we
    don't do nnn in ours."  It actually seems to work--especially when you
    remind them that our family does do some fun things.
    
    I used bribery too.  M&Ms worked well for us.  In the beginning,
    one for trying, two for producing liquids, three for solids.  I also
    got a book on potty training in a day (or two, I can't remember) and
    used some of their ideas about doing nothing but training one weekend.  
    
    It worked great for us with our older child, although we have yet to
    convince our 2-year old son that there is a good reason for the potty.
    
    Good luck!
    
    judy

    What worked for us with Joe (who was very stubborn) was a combination
    of bribery, rules and being very patient.  About the time I was coming
    to my wit's end with Joe, I read Dr. Brazelton's study about kids often
    not really training until around the third birthday.  I just didn't
    worry about it then, until *Joe* showed me he was ready for the potty.  
    Then we set a hard and fast rule - in the potty earns a treat (candy or
    an extra 15 minutes of playtime, or whatever), in the pants means a
    pull-up.  One strike, and you're out; but you're only one potty stop
    away from those cool Ninja Turtles undies.
    
    Once Joe was really interested in training, not just in wearing cool
    undies, it took about three weeks until he was accident free during the
    day.  It took another 2-3 weeks until he was dry overnight.
    
    M.
    

    I'm please to report that Emilie has cracked the potty and is now
    completely trained day and night.  She's 2 years, 5 months.  I just put
    pants on her and kept reminding her to go on the potty.  After she wet
    her pants twice she soon got the hang of getting the potty herself.  
    She also takes her pants and trousers off and on herself.
    
    It seems that the key is that they have to go to the potty themselves. 
    I have been putting Emilie on the potty morning and night since last
    July but it was never spontaneous.  
    
    She is also waking up in the night and asking to go and always does.
    
    All this was done with the help of my mother when she was here for a
    week so we could be consistent.  When I took Emilie to the childminder
    I told her she was now trained and gave her some extra clothes just in
    case.  However, every day since when I pick her up she hasn't wet
    herself once.
    
    I think that for me the hardest part is that you have to carry the
    potty around and not put on pull-ups for my benefit.  This included
    taking it to the Museum in Paris (the toilets were on the top floor and
    can't be reached in a hurry!)
    
    Be patient!!
    
    Kerry
    
    
    

    
    Is there a book on potty training that is as good as Ferber's 
    "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems"?  I loved that book and I
    really understood everything about what to do and what not to do
    after reading it.  I need at least that much information about 
    potty training since my daughter is almost 4 and still in diapers 
    and not interested in potty training and nothing we try seems to 
    work.
    
    thanks.................beth