Conference moira::parenting

    My daughter just turned a year old and has been pulling up since she
    was 9 months old.  She is cruising the furniture extremely fast and
    she is also getting into a standing position without holding on 
    to anything.  But she is still pretty shakey when she stands.  Now
    she seems to be darting from one piece of furniture to the next.
    What are some signs to watch for her to begin walking?  Will she
    do this out of the blue one day?  My doctor told me she should walk
    by the time she is 16 months old.  Is that average?
    
    Thanks
    Kim
    
    

    
    Depends on the child. My son was born with both hips dislocated
    (bilateral hip displasia) and was in a harness for several months. All
    is well now, at 14 months, but he has been cruising for months now and
    not walking. He will take a daring step and fall, every now and then
    but he hasn't made a sincere effort to walk. Part of the reason is that
    he crawls at lightning speed, so he really doesn't have the need to
    walk at 1/4 the speed. The other reason is physical. Even though his
    hip bone structure is normal, he is extremely flexible and doesn't have
    the strength in his legs right now to walk consistently. The ortho says
    not to worry until 18 months, then make an appointment.
    
    My point is, your child may be very flexible and may need to build up
    strength in their hips and legs.
    
    I'm sure not pushing him. He'll walk someday.
    
    Chris
    

	Kim,
         From the sound of it your daughter is very close to walking.  My
        daughter started walking at nine months.  She never really crawled
        she was an early walker, but my sisters little boy will be one
        next month and he's just starting to give the signs of wanting to 
        walk.  One thing I've learned is that all children are different.
        It sounds to me like your little girl will be walking soon.

	Lisa

    Nothing wrong _at all_ with not yet walking at 1 yr.  I think the
    average age is 13-14 mos.  Marc starting walking at 13 mos.  And, yes,
    it was kind of out of the blue.  He was standing holding onto a chair
    in the kitchen, and suddenly, he let go and lurched clear across the
    room :-)  

    I guess my reply is more in response to the baby with hip dysplasia. My
    daughter was in a body (spica) cast for 6 months starting at her 7
    month b'day. So her walking was delayed. After her cast was taken off
    the lower part of her body was like that of a new born due to no
    movements for 6 months at a stretch. She had trouble even sitting up
    due to no strength in her lower back. But by the time she was 18 months
    she was walking like she had been for a while. It was an "overnite"
    kind of thing with her (everything with her is overnite). We were
    worried but the ortho said that she will walk when she feels ready to
    and sure enough one day she decided that walking was getting her places
    faster than crawling.
    
    Shaila

    re: -1 I forgot to mention that the cast was to fix hip dysplasia on
    her left hip.

    
    Patrick was never in a spica cast, he was in a harness from day two.
    Two months full time (no baths) then decreasing amount of time until
    removal at age 7 months.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Chris
    

I thought Holly, my 22 mth old, would never walk.
Well, I can tell you that I wish I hadn't rushed her!
Now she's into everything imagineable.  She was
a late roller, crawler and walker...but it did happen
around 14-15 mths.  She just did it one day at daycare.  
She was playing with a walker style pickup truck and
boldly pushed it across the floor.  Boy was she proud
of herself when she performed for me that night when
I came to pick her up.  Another kodak moment I missed.
I must give credit to my daycare provider for encouraging
her to try with toys and such!

Colette

    
    Hey, she WALKED!!!!! I picked my daughter up at her Nana's yesterday
    and their news to me was that she walked halfway across the lawn!!!!!
    But, she wouldn't do it for me, when I got there. :( They said she would
    walk clapping her hands and yelling!!!!  I was so excited!!!!
    I can't wait to see it!!!!
    
    Just thought I would share my wonderful news!!!!!
    
    
    Kim
    
    

    Ok...the good news is Mitch started to roll over onto his
    tummy...the bad news...once he's there he screams because he
    hates lying on his tummy.....I always ask him why he does it
    if he doesn't like it, but I don't get any response...8*)
    
    When do they start to roll from their tummy to their backs....
    he tries real hard but not quite....he's just about 4 months.
    
    Any other babies out their that hate lying on their tummies?
    Never have been able to let him sleep on his tummy from birth.
    He always sleeps on his side or back.
    
    Thanks,
    Kristen
    

    
    My daughter is always put to sleep on her stomach. At 16 days we found
    she had rolled over and was sleeping on her back. Sleeping on her back
    didn't seem to bother her, but, in case of spitting we put her on her
    stomach.
    
    Incidently, she has never rolled again, she'll be 7 weeks old Saturday. 

    Rebecca rolled over when she was 3 months old, but the average age I
    believe is 4-5 months.  Also, depending on how big the child is.
    
    Kim
    
    

    A friend of ours (who has 5 kids) came by yesterday and commented
    how 'advanced' Alexandra (9.5 months) seems to be in her 
    eye/hand coordination and how adroit she seems to be with her hands.
    Alex does seems to find her binky without even looking for it and
    does have an excellent reach and grasp.    
    
    Being a 1st time mom I don't really have anyone to compare her against
    so I was surprised and pleased to hear the woman's comment.  I'd
    like to develop that aspect of her capabilities - can anyone recommend
    any kinds of toys, games or exercises to further develop motor
    coordination?
    
    I haven't read a lot of the books because for many months it seemed
    Alex was not progressing as the books indicated she should be.  I got
    discouraged and would think horrible thoughts that there was
    something wrong with her.  
    
    Any suggestions appreciated.
    
    Kath
    
    

      My baby is 4 1/2 months and I was wondering when they start
    to recognize their name?
    
    Kristen
    

    Caitlin really started to know her name by 6 months.

    Jessica was also 6 months when she recognized her name.
    
    Angie
    

    
    I'd have to agree with the 6 mos age...Seems to be when Michael 
    recognized his.  
    
    Chris
    
    

    Here's a much later milestone:
    
    I wanted to let all you wonderful people who have helped and
    supported me through the years know that Kat is graduating from
    high school next week.  She's going to be salutatorian at Nashua
    High, and if you think I'm not proud of her . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    Congratulations Bonnie!  I'm sure proud doesn't even begin
    to sum up what you are feeling.
    
    Linda  
    

    Wow, I think she was just entering her teens when I first
    started reading this file...(and I had *no* kids then!)
    
    Lucy

    She was *6* when I started at DEC . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    Yippee for Kat AND her parents!  Is she planning to go on to college?

re: .18

Musta been the genes.

Clay

    re: .22
    
    Yes, she's going to be going to Northwestern University, where
    she'll study radio, tv, and film production.  She thinks she might
    go on to law school and specialize in entertainment law, possibly
    free-speech and free-press issues. 
    
    re: .23
    
    Thanks, Clay :)
    
    --bonnie

    
    Northwestern is an EXCELLENT school for Mass Communication. Before I
    became an EE I was in a Mass Comm program at Emerson. I had my choice
    of six schools, the finalists were Northwestern and Emerson. I chose
    Emerson because it was closer to home. Both are of the same
    caliber...top shelf.
    
    Wish her good luck, and congrats
    
    Chris
    

    I have a milestone to share: Ryan will be 4 at the end of July - as of
    July 2, he is riding a two wheel bike WITH NO TRAINING WHEELS! 
    

    My baby took her first unassisted steps last night.  I am so excited
    and sadened at the same time.  Why do they have to grow so fast.
    
    Jessica is 8 mos.  How time flys.
    
    Angie

    My son William just turned a year on July 10th he is already walking
    very steady now.  But he only has 2 teeth.  My daughter Erin started 
    riding her bike with no training wheels this Spring she will be 5 in
    November. She is also swimming with no floatties or tube.  I am very
    proud of her.  She will be starting Preschool in the Fall.  I still
    can't believe Billy is a year old, how time flys.  Enjoy them while
    they are young.
    
    Amy Spencer

    My daughter is now 7 months old and has just recently begun pulling up
    on the furniture and anything else she can pull up on.  She is now
    falling down and bumping her head alot more.  Over the weekend she fell
    and hit her head against the entertainment center.  Of course, I was a
    nervous wreck and after that incident I watched her like a hawk and
    moved her to her play area and tried to play with her.  She was more
    interested in crawling back over to the TV to pull herself up.
    
    Does this mean that she will walk soon if she is already pulling
    herself up?  She has incredibly strong legs.  
    
    I hope my nerves will make it for the next few months.  

    
    I'm interested in this too...Mitchell, since he turned 6 months,
    (he's 6 1/2 now) started pulling himself up,...he starting to move 
    around the furniture a little....how much longer before he tries the
    'big step'?
    
    Kristen

    
    	Spencer has been pulling himself up and walking around the
    furniture for about 7 weeks now, alas, he has yet to take that elusive
    independent first step.
    
    	We ended up getting one of those toddler activity centers (it's
    like having a jungle gym in your living room) this toy alone has really
    enhanced his balance and assisted walking skills. It shouldn't be too
    much longer for him but then there's no rush.
    
    				Wendy

    Re: how soon will they walk...in my experience, it can be a long
    time before they walk! My daughter and son both waited til 12 mos.
    to start walking, although they showed all the signs of being ready
    early. They spend lots of time crawling and standing instead. 
    
    As far as those bumps and bruises go - there probably will be lots
    of those to come. I only worry if the baby doesn't stop crying 
    pretty quickly. 
    
    This is a fun age (though it gets tiring, too) - enjoy!
    
    Lucy

    Wendy,
    
    Where did you purchase your toddler activity gym?  I am interested in
    purchasing one for my daughter.  Also, what is the price for one of
    these?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joyce

    
    	I got our gym second hand, our cost was 40$ and I've seen them at
    Toys-R-Us for up to 90$.
    
    	This particular gym has a slide, some steps (we didn't have any
    in our house and so wanted something for Spencer to practice on), and
    two tunnel holes to crawl through. It also has activities (a sorter
    box, a ball maze, a xylophone) on the outside of the toy that Spencer
    also enjoys. It's fairly large, takes up a lot of floor space but well
    worth the expense, Spencer loves it and plays on it regularly.
    
    	It's also great for playing peek-a-boo!! 
    
    			Wendy
    

    We thought Chris was going to start walking early, 10 months, but
    he held out to over 1 year. He was pulling himself up for a while,
    and cruising the furniture too. It can happen soon, or it could
    take a few more months. Only time will tell. For Chris's 1 year
    birthday, his Aunt Debbie and Uncle Paul got him one of the push
    trucks. They hold onto the handle and push the truck around as
    they are walking. It helps them get confidence in walking around
    without furniture.
    
    It's a fun stage, and as another noter pointed out, you will see
    alot more bruises. Just take it in stride and try not to worry
    too much. 
    
    -Sheila
    

How does he do when you hold his hands and "walk" him around? At 6.5-7
months, my son *loved* this activity (backbreaking for me ;-) and that's
when I knew it was just a matter of time...(also he was very strong)

Crawled at 7 mos. Walked at 7.5 months (have the video to prove it!).
Somehow he was physically ready and mentally motivated at an "early" age.

At daycare, he slept in a playpen, and we heard stories of him first
cruising around the edges, and then one day he just walked across the
middle...and the rest is history (now he's into running/climbing, etc.
at almost 15 mos.)

Good luck awaiting those exciting first steps of independence (for them,
not you, of course!).

-Cori

    
    Rebecca started pulling herself up around 8 months.  She waited until
    she was 13 months to start walking.  Never confident enough!  But boy
    it was worth the wait!  I was so excited!  I called up everybody.....
    Now at 16 1/2 months she running and climbing and still falling!
    
    Enjoy!!
    
    Kim
    
    

    Jessie started pulling herself up at 6.5 mos.  She is now taking small
    steps (2 to 5) to move from object to object.  She is 9 mos old.  Her
    sister Alicia took her first steps at 9 mos too.  She loves pulling
    herself up and balancing herself without support.
    
    Angie

    
    Michael started crawling around 6.5 mos, then about 2 weeks later
    started pulling up and "crusing" the furniture. He's 10 mos today,
    and he took his first couple of steps last week!!! We haven't gotten
    him to take any more since then, but he was certainly on a roll that
    night! He has this little wagon type thing (Fisher Price Red Ride-on)
    that he can walk with and push around, and that one night he was FLYING
    across the room at record speed! (wonder what he ate at daycare THAT
    day!:-))   
    
    Its amazing how fast it all happens. One week he learns to crawl, 2
    weeks later he's pulling himself up, 2 weeks later, he's "crusing" the
    furniture, 2 weeks later he's standing ALONE (no holding on), and 2
    weeks later he's taking a couple of steps!!  Its so fast!
    
    Sounds like she could be an early walker.  We just child proofed early
    and even pushed the coffee table against the wall for awhile to avoid 
    and "extra" bruises. I'm amazed though, he hasn't had many! 
    
    You mentioned the entertainment center...  and idea...we bought some
    small sheet metal brackets and attached ours to the wall to make sure
    he didn't pull it right over. And of course, the VCR went up one
    shelf! ;-)
    
    Chris
    

I don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but Elise walked quite a bit
at 8 months, then gave it up.  She didn't "decide" to walk until 10 months.
(We were there and could see her little brain assessing and evaluating.)  She
made a decision, and then never turned back.

So, you can never tell.  They walk when they want to walk.

Pat

    Monday night was Chris's first night sleeping on a mattress on the
    floor. He cried a little when we put him to bed, but he did not
    get up and he did fine through the whole night. The next morning
    he called to us, just like he does from the crib. 
    
    We ordered the bunk beds, and they should be here in 4 - 6 weeks.
    
    What a big boy!!!
    
    -Sheila
    

    I know some kids are early walkers and some kids are late walkers but
    I'm curious about my own son, 14 months.  He only started crawling
    (army crawl) at 12 months and still struggles to pull himself up from
    a sit position.  He will "walk" if his father and I "walk" him.  
    Somedays he wants both hands and then other days he can just do one.
    He will cruise around the table if we stand him up to it, otherwise
    he may try to pull him self up once or twice and when he fails he
    pretty much gives up.  I think we've spoiled him too much perhaps by
    continuing to lift him up and not perhaps encouraging him to work it
    out himself.  
    
    At our 12 month checkup the pedi told us some kids are late walkers and
    that by 15 months if he wasn't doing it he wanted to know.  Well, 15
    months is rapidly approaching and at times Connor seems no closer to
    walking today as he was before.  There have been times where he takes
    off and takes 6-7 steps so we know he can do it but if it doesn't
    happen quickly he loses his patience.  They notice this at daycare too
    and they too said perhaps they do it for him too much and are trying
    to let him work it out.  Connor is a big boy in size so maybe that
    deters him a little bit too.  Am I just overly concerned here or is
    there something else we should be doing to encourage him?  Or should
    we just leave it alone?  (We do have him "walk" between the two of us
    and like I said, he can do it if he really wants).
    
    

    Well, I would call 6 or 7 steps "walking," but I'd guess he's probably
    just working on some other area of development right now and doesn't
    have a whole lot of interest (patience, "time" to focus on it :-) ) in
    rapid, efficient locomotion....  How's he doing right now verbally? 
    Lots of new sounds/experimenting with words?  Is he getting preoccupied
    with teeny tiny objects (fine motor skills)?  If that rings a bell, I'd
    stop helping him so much and wait for him to want that skill.
    
    I think too that large babies (chunky or even just big all over) on
    average take longer to do a lot of gross motor stuff.  Let us know what
    the pedi says at 15 months.
    
    Leslie

    Sounds familiar.  Our son did not crawl until 12 months - we were
    getting frantic.  Daycare helped by putting things out of his reach so
    he had to do something to get to them.  Then he started cruising and
    finally walked at exactly 16 months.  Our daycare provider has three
    boys there within 3 months of each other.  Our son is the oldest but is
    more into games and quiet activites whereas the other two walked at 12
    months and were all over the place.  But they would not sit.  Now that
    our son is walking (running most of the time) the other two boys are
    just starting to begin to sit for awhile and watch a video or play a
    game.  They are now a few months from 2.  So it all evens out.  Some
    are physical and some are quiet.
    
    Michelle
    

I also would call taking '6 or 7 steps' walking. It sounds like he's physically
capable, he simply lacks the confidence to walk around everywhere he goes.
When he's ready, he'll do it. It could be today.

Chris

    There have been new studies on crawling and walking...our adoption
    social worker was telling us about it. Seems that parents have been
    encouraging their babies to walk earlier and earlier, especially with
    using jolly jumpers and seat walkers. The concern with this is that
    crawling is very good for fine motor skill development, since the
    baby uses arms, legs, hands etc to explore and move. And somehow 
    brain development is tied up in that crawling. So she thought doctors
    will start changing their deadline of concern for when baby walks to
    beyond 15 months eventually. 
    
    Cyn

    Our daughter's physical therapist gave the range of walking to be 9-16
    months.  She did emphasize crawling to be an important skill and did
    not recommend walkers or jolly jumpers at all!  We did use a walker but
    not in hopes to achieve walking, but rather to provide a different view
    of the world...
    
    

    My son walked at 16 months but started talking at 8 months!  There
    really is a corelation to other things they may be doing at the same
    time.  
    
    By the way - once your child starts walking you'll wonder why you ever
    wanted them to start!!!!  :')

    Re: Crawling
    
    Someone mentioned to me once that crawling also helps with depth
    perception. He said that some kids (who might be manifesting depth
    perception problems by, say, having problems catching a baseball...
    which generally is a skill you develop MUCH later than crawling!)
    benefit from additional crawling 'therapy' (if I that's the right
    word). I never heard this from anyone else. (and as an early walker and
    talker and a terrible baseball catcher, it interested me very much!)
    Anyone else heard of this link before?

    depth perception problems in young children can also be 
    caused by vision problems (astigmatism is a biggie).
    
    I was under the impression that depth perception was something that
    developed long before crawling - I got this feeling by subtle
    behavioral changed in Charlotte at about 2 months.
    
    Monica

    Crawling has been linked to hand-eye coordination (maybe that's why
    there was trouble catching a baseball?) and even dyslexia.  My brother 
    was diagnosed as being dyslexic in around the second or third grade.  
    In order to help him learn to compensate for it, he had to do exercises
    every day.  There were several, including touching his hand to his 
    nose, and taping numbers on the wall, and having him quickly glance 
    toward each as it was called.  One other was crawling on the ground, 
    being sure to use opposite arm and leg (he had been an early walker.
    
    This does not imply that early walkers will be dyslexic.  It only 
    suggests that if dyslexia runs in the family, you probably shouldn't 
    encourage your little ones to walk until they had crawling down pat.  
    Also, this was about 20 years ago, so ideas may have changed since.
    
    I was also told by someone who recently graduated as an eye doctor, 
    about some research he did one summer, while in school.  They did 
    studies somewhere in Ohio that linked trampoline use with better 
    eyesight (the movement forced the kids to exercise their eyes).  Of 
    course, I've been warned that trampolines are also linked to some 
    pretty serious broken bones... Fortunately, Andy isn't old enough 
    for me to make that decision yet.

>    Also, this was about 20 years ago, so ideas may have changed since.
    
    I think the jury is still out on whether crawling exercises have
    any theraputic benefit for older children who have learning
    disabilities or developmental problems.  "Patterning" -- moving
    one's limbs in the pattern of creeping -- appears to help in at
    least some cases.  
    
    Research has, however, conclusively shown that early, late, or
    average walking are not in any way associated with learning
    disabilities -- either in reducing or in increasing the rate. 
    
    They've also shown that "encouraging" or "discouraging" has almost
    no effect on when a child walks.  Children in cultures that use
    cradleboards or other restraining devices for infants walk at the
    same average age as kids who use walkers or bouncing swings.  
    
    There was an article in the NE Journal of Medicine about three
    years ago that summarized the findings, if anybody wants to go
    look up the original research. 
    
    --bonnie

>> I was also told by someone who recently graduated as an eye doctor, 
>>  about some research he did one summer, while in school.  They did 
>>  studies somewhere in Ohio that linked trampoline use with better 
>>  eyesight (the movement forced the kids to exercise their eyes).  Of 
>>  course, I've been warned that trampolines are also linked to some 
>>  pretty serious broken bones... Fortunately, Andy isn't old enough 
>>  for me to make that decision yet.
    
    Ironically, I had a very very hard time with things like trampolines in
    highschool gym class, since they all insisted that I remove my glasses
    while using the equipment.   I was incredibly paranoid about doing
    anything since I couldn't see a thing - there's nothing like using a
    trampoline with screwed up depth perception.  Its no wonder I hated gym
    class and perferred to sit in the library reading!
    
    Monica

	Historically do girls learn to speak early then boys? I have 4
	children, 2 girls and 2 boys. The girls are 7, and 6 and the boys
    	are 3, and 1.5. I notice the boys get their motor skill quicker
    	but lack the  vocabulary skills, where the case was vise-versa
    	with the girls. My 3 year old son who has had ear infection with
    	tubes and therapy talk but he is hard to understand. The 1.5 year
    	old basiclly dosen't say anymore then MA MA. 
    

		doug

	

    I have always heard that the stereotype that you mention--girls have
    better language skills and boys have better motor skills.  Also, I've
    noticed that my nieces and nephews who are second children seem to talk
    later.  I've heard that older siblings "help" them out and they don't
    need to use words to communicate with the parents.
    
    My daughter also is consistent with this.  Her language skills are very
    sophisticated at 2-1/2.  When we get together with my brother's son,
    who is 8 days older, the difference is extremely obvious.  But then he
    jumps further and can ride a tricycle much better than she does.
    
    judy

Well, my twins don't live up to that notion. They are now 20 months old, and
although Jessica makes many more sounds than Brad, she does not say any words
yet.  If she's not saying something by 2, she'll be going for speech therapy.
Personally, I think she's just too lazy to give it the effort it deserves, and
she doesn't sense a need for it yet.  We're working on that.

Brad, on the other hand, started with his first and only 4 words at 19 months
old, doing something before Jessica for the very first time.  His first word
was 'cookie' followed by 'baby', 'bear', and 'ball'.  He can make animal
sounds (woof for the dog and a nice, deep, growl for the bear), and tries
to make other words, but no success yet.  He will also probably need speech
theraphy, but that has pretty much been expected from the beginning due to
his lung problems and how that negatively affects his speech.

    re: -1
    
    My first son did not have a need for verbal speech either.  He started
    talking at 2 1/2 - pure laziness, although we considered other
    possibilities.
    
    My second son started speaking at 18 months.  My sister's daughter also
    started communicating verbally well at 17-18 months, also.  But, I
    remember my sister was 4 before she spoke much!  I used to interpret
    for her (I am 6 yrs her senior and always acted like her second mother).
    
    Depends on the kids!
    
    -sandy
    

    My son Michael did not utter a word until his second birthday.
    
    I consulted the pedi at 18 months about Michael's lack of
    speech. He told me if Michael wasn't putting two words together
    by his second birthday, he would set up an appointment with his
    wife who is a Speech Therapist. 
    
    On Michael's second birthday, he turned to our next door neighbor
    and said "hi, Dave".  Thoses were his very first words and since
    it was two words, I was assured I had nothing to worry about.
    
    Jodi-

    Both my kids (4 & 2) started speaking at very young age.  Eric spoke in
    sentences by his first birthday.  Monica spoke in sentences by 18
    months.  Both kids are bilingual and can swith back and forth between 
    Chinese and English smoothly.  I think it runs in the family.  I
    am an early talker too.
    
    Wendy 

Well, my sons were raised trilingual and neither spoke much before they were
three years old.  The older boy, Dirk, who is 14 is perfectly trilingual in
English, French, and German although he "spoke" only English and German for the
first three years.  Markus who is 12 spoke all three from the beginning but 
up until he was about 8 prefered French.  Now he is strongest in French but
with fluent English and German.

It is quite normal for children who speak more than one language to develop 
language skills more slowly and to show a smaller vocabulary in the first 
10 to 15 years.  However, once they have mastered the languages, they then
often progress more rapidly than their monolingual peers because they have a
more flexible mindset and more ways of expressing things.  (I worked in 
linguistics for quite some time and can recommend some good books for anyone
interested.)

On the other hand, both of my boys developed motor skills very rapidly and
at a very early age.  Dirk has developed into a very fine natural athlete.  He
could pedal a tricycle when he was only 18 months.  Markus is more of the fine
motor skill variety and has been constructing the most fantastic Lego 
constructions since he was very small.

ccb

    Judging from my friends and family, I'd say girls tend to speak
    earlier.  My daughter has been speaking in complete sentences (holding
    conversations) since she was 20 months old.  My cousin's son is 3 and
    barely talks yet.  A friend's son is 28 months and says about 2 words!
    Both of the boys are just as mobile as my daughter...no major
    differences noticed there.
    
    Of course, I'm referring to just a few children!
    
    Don't worry...all children eventually do talk and then you won't be
    able to keep them quiet.
    
    
    Robin

    Lindsay will be a year on Saturday (God, time flies!!)  She has been
    walking for about 6 weeks now and has begun to run!  It's funny.....
    she tries to keep up with the dog!  She says alot i think,  baby, 
    sean, stephen, hi, juice, books, ma ma, da da, conor, attempts "misty"
    (the dog).  Just this week she can tell you what a cow a sheep and a 
    duck say.  It's funny....the quack is the cutest.  Of course I think
    she's brillant and it adds fuel to the fire when everyone says how 
    much faster she is than her boy cousins.  And as proud of her as I am 
    I see newborns now and miss that...it goes by so quickly!  Can't wait 
    to have another.....but will it always be like this....I'll end up with
    100 kids!!!!!!!
    

	Here's the breakdown for my neices, nephews, etc.

	Neice #1 - Walked by 1 year, talked early
	Neice #2 - Walked about the same time, talked a little later,needed
		   some speech work in first grade

	Nephew #1 - Walked at 1, said quite a few words by his first
		    birthday, talked in sentences before 2

	Nephew #2 - Walked at 1, talked a blue-streak of non-sense
		    until about 15 months, then once he started, caught
		    up to nephew #1 in a very short time (they're the
		    same age)

	Nephew #3 - Walked at 14 months, said quite a few words by his
		    first birthday, and talks in small sentences at 18 months

	Neice #3 - at 11 months, says about 3 words, and looks like
		   she'll walk by 1

	The others are too young to tell.

	My daughter, at seven months, is cruising the furniture, and
	can make a few different consonent sounds (da da da, ma ma ma, ba ba,
	la la).

	From my list, I'd say they're all about the same, male or female!

	

    I have a concern/question about a baby's growth and feeding.  My
    daughter is growing very quickly, as most do, but at what age should a
    baby double their birth weight?
    
    Lindsey is 3 1/2 months old, weighs 15 1/2 pounds and is 26 inches tall, 
    she was 7.2 and 21 inches when she was born.  I'm having a hard time 
    keeping her full.
    
    I was just curious about her size, it seems that she me be tall as she
    grows up.  
    
    Lisa Cozzens   

    Hi Lisa,

    I just took my four month old (on jan. 23) in for his 4month checkup.
    He was 16lbs and 26.5".  His weight was in the 75% and height was 95%.
    I too am forever feeding him, he is always hungary.  I feed him
    30-35oz of formula a day.  He's been on fruit and cereal for a
    month now and am going to start a second feeding this weekend to
    cut down on all that formula.

    The dr. said he was doing fine and that often the bigger babies
    need food earlier.  I thought they would comment on me feeding
    him before the 4-6 month recommendation.  Instead they said to
    keep it up, he's doing great!

    BTW..Bradley was 8.9 at birth and 21.25" long.  As far as doubling
    their weight, I heard usually in 6months, and tripling in 12.

    Lynne

	I just read that baby should double in weight by 5 months, and
	triple by 12 months.

	Your baby is very tall for her weight, if my memory of the
	charts is correct.  Sounds like she needs more food (from
	your description)!

	Karen

    Yahli,now almost 14 months old,was born 3.490kg,and 47cm.At 5 months
    she was 7.510kg (double+) and 68cm.She is now 11kg and 82cm.The doctor
    had always said that if she eats right,it doesn't matter
    how much she does.We avoid sweets,give her a snack from time to time,
    but mostly she eats fruit,vegies (the only kid I know who LOVES green
    vegies...),checken,fish etc.Sometimes she seams to never stop eating,
    other days she won't have more than a bite,but she is healthy,and
    happy-and so am I.
    r/

re: .3 
> the only kid I know who LOVES green vegies...)

So far, my 5-month old Noelle loves everything (including green beans and
rice cereal).  I honestly think if I mixed dirt and water to the right
consistency that she'd love that too :-)

    I often wonder about the eating vs. size thing - of course they 
    will vary in appetite  - sometimes a growth spurt will really 
    get them hungry.
    But for Charlotte, who, at last checkup (6mo) was 20lb (over 95percentile)
    and 27 inches (just under 90th percentile) I don't really think
    she eats all that much.
    I started to get concerned the other day - showed my husband a chart
    of what the average baby eats at Charlotte's age and was amazed! 
    She doesn't eat all that food! Am I feeding her enough? (Hubby says:
    Obviously - she's happy, and LARGE).
    Well, I am a little confused over this issue....
    8-)
    
    Monica

    .5 Monica,keep in mind that all those charts are STATISTICS!!.I often
    wonder how they build those charts.Each child is a world,and each world
    is different.So how can they take MY child (or yours) and compare
    him/her to a statistic graph??? You know,when I came to hte first 
    check up with Yahli,and the nurse heard I was not breastfeeding,she
    yelled so hard I started crying.She said I was stuffing my baby,and
    that I was pure laze (she didn't even ASK me why I was not nursing!!!)
    and that Yahli will grow up as a fat person,and all kinds of stupid
    things.Lucky me I had my cousin along,and she has a huge mouth,which
    she used and not so nicely...I did complain,and switched to another
    nurse,who then,the second time we came-said Yahli was not eating much
    at all...She is the same nurse (angel is more like it) we see when we
    go for checkups,and she had only used the charts for 2,3 times.I don't
    even know where in those charts Yahli is-and I don't give a blink,not
    for one second.I know my baby,I know her diet,I know she is doing well.
    She had "lost" weight (actually did not gain,so I guess she kind of
    "lost") when she started walking (at 10 months but that's another
    story),and she moves around like a storm.You just wait till Charlotte
    starts walking...In the meantime-don't worry about her diet and just
    make sure she's eating healthy food.
    Have a great weekend.
    R/

    Please also see note 199 on "Baby/toddler growth and failure to
    thrive syndrome".
    
    L
    

    Reading all the replies in the Childproofing note has got me wondering
    about kids crawling vs walking.
    
    My daughter, Sarah - 9 months next week, does not crawl. Occassionaly
    she will get up on her hands and knees and rock back and forth,
    sometimes making it a couple of inches.  When she needs to get
    somewhere she usually rolls and lately has been cruising.
    
    In fact, since she was about 7.5 months her favorite thing has been to
    stand (with an assist up by mom or dad) and since 8.25 months she's
    been cruising the furniture (and getting pretty good at it, too).
    
    While I have read that some kids skip crawling and go right to walking,
    I've also read that crawling is important in their development of hand
    and eye coordination (she has no problem getting those Cheerios into
    her mouth).  Do any of you have kids that skipped crawling altogether
    and went right to walking?   Have you noticed any differences in their
    coordination from kids that did crawl?
    
    I'm not really worried about this (although I will ask her pedi at her
    checkup next week), I'm just real curious.  I always thought that I
    would have a baby that crawled all over the place before she walked,
    just seemed like the natural progression of things.
    
    Susan

Markus only crawled about a week, Dirk not at all.  Dirk walked at 9 months,
Markus at 10.

As far as eye-hand coordination goes, Dirk is the best shooter on his basketball
team, sometimes scoring as much as 90% of the total points made.  And Markus
has very good fine motor skills.  He could handle and put together the small
Lego kits from the time he was 4 years old.  Even the very complex ones.

ccb

    
    I think that it has become very popular to blame poor performance in
    later years on not crawling. It has almost become a bandwagon that
    people feel the need to jump on.
    
    	My mother to this day insists that my younger brother had to repeat
    the third grade because he did not crawl (forget the fact that he has
    a learning disability).
    
    	Try to remember that every child is different and some do not fall
    on the "normal" curve. As long as the child is not being inhibited (for
    example, if it were always belted up and not allowed to crawl or
    explore or if there were a definte physical condition that may prevent
    the action) then the child is developing at exactly the right pace it
    should.
    
    			Wendy

    Cheryl and Wendy,
    
    Thanks for the responses.  
    
    I really wasn't too concerned about her not crawling, she gets around
    just fine and is developing great in all other areas, but had never
    actually known anyone whose baby didn't crawl.  We know a ton of people
    who had babies around the same time we did and they all talk about
    their kids crawling here and there.  
    
    I've always made sure she's had plenty of floor time, so I feel fine
    that she's moving at her own pace and not because I was inhibiting her
    movement.
    
    I forget where I read about about it affecting hand and eye
    coordination, but now I will just figure if she's uncoordinated it's
    because she inherited it from her mother (I can be a real clutz).
    
    Susan

re: .74

amen

>    	Try to remember that every child is different and some do not fall
>    on the "normal" curve. As long as the child is not being inhibited [from 
>    crawling]

or "forced" to walk before s/he is ready

>    then the child is developing at exactly the right pace it
>    should.
    
Clay

>    I forget where I read about about it affecting hand and eye
>    coordination, but now I will just figure if she's uncoordinated it's
>    because she inherited it from her mother (I can be a real clutz).

Susan, maybe you were prevented from crawling and that's your problem :-)

(Really, I am only joking !! :-) 

Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    That must be it!!!!!!  And I bet my mother was prevented from crawling,
    too (she's as bad as I am).
    
    Susan

    Susan,
    
    Chelsea is 8.5 months and is still doing her version of what we call
    the "Commando Crawl"....this has been going on for about two months.
    It's kind of a push/pull/drag effort...she gets great exercise!  Also
    can go from one end of the house to the other in a split second.  Even
    though she gets up on all fours to rock, the minute she wants to go
    get something its down on her tummy.  She has just started pulling
    herself up on any object within reach that is higher then the floor...
    pretty exciting stuff!  Also, even though she has been sitting up
    forever....whenever I get her in the morning she is always laying on
    her back in the crib.  Well just this week its like she discovered that
    she could sit up in the crib (I'm glad she's not pulling herself up
    on the rail yet!)...but it seems so strange to go into her room and
    see her sitting up, when I'm so use to seeing her laying down....these
    little ones grow up so fast!
    
    Take Care,
    
    ..Lori

    Lori, wait for it!
    Charlotte learned the "I can stand up in the crib" trick between
    Christmas and New Years. It turned her from a quick-to-sleep baby
    to the I-Want-to-Party girl in 2 nights. Luckily the novelty of
    her new ability wore off in about a week and she was back to her
    old self. 
    Now however, there is no predicting where she'll be when you look
    in. Put her down on her belly, head near the top of the crib, and 
    fifteen minutes later she'll be still fast asleep, but laying on
    her side with her head scrunched up in a bottom corner, with her
    blanket far away. Now that she has a bad cold (found out yesterday
    its a double ear infection too) she is sleeping very lightly and
    waking up several times during the night (and so are we!) so she'll
    be switching positions very very often.
    She seems to have mastered the crawling, and yes, she'll try to stand
    up against anything taller than the floor (including our
    ultra-light ottoman which keeps on sliding across the floor with 
    her chasing it, trying to get it to a corner where it will stop so
    she can stand) She has no fear - will stand with one hand then crouch
    down to pick something off the floor. This has already resulted 
    in several first hand experiences with gravity when she gets tired and 
    sloppy.
    
    Monica 

    For our 2 boys I kinda taught them to crawl. I'd get on the floor
    w/ William, and he'd be on "all fours." Then I'd slowly move
    his arms and legs in the crawling-motion.
    
    Both boys were late crawlers. Long periods of "slug mode." (drooling
    and then crawling through it. Yech!) Both were large babies. 9 15 &
    10lbs even. I've often wondered if this largeness accounted for their
    late rolling over and crawling. Peter actually learned to walk before
    he was really good at crawling. But he picked it up as he grew until
    he could crawl as well/fast as you'd expect.
    
    Ben

    Yes, Charlotte (who will be 11 mos on April 9) is starting to
    learn how to climb stairs.
    
    I wanted to know how others handled this (helped them learn, kept
    them away) and at what age your kids were competent stair climbers
    (up and down).
    
    Both of us lived in houses with stairs and my mom was of the school
    to teach em up and down early so as to avoid possible mishap. I 
    remember my brother's preferred method was sliding down on his
    belly, legs first.
    
    Charlotte has quite a unique way of climbing. She will put her
    foot (not her knee) on the next stair, reach for the furthest
    stair with her hand and use it and her foot to push/pull up to
    the next step. The sitter thinks this is so bizzare.
    
    I am kind of stuck between "no no, keep her from the stairs, she'll
    fall" and mom's "teach em early".
    
    Stories?
    
    Monica

    Monica,
    
    Sarah's at the same stage, too.  We were playing in the living room, I
    turned for one second to let one of the dogs inside and when I turned
    around Sarah was already up on the first step in hot pursuit of our
    other dog who was at the top of the stairs.
    
    While I do want her to learn stairs, we bought a gate for the bottom
    stair that swings open so we don't have to keep stepping over it to get
    up and down.  I've let her play on the first step while I've been
    sitting right there to monitor her moves but for the most part the
    stairs are off limits.  Part of my reasoning is that if she falls the
    landing is not carpeted and she'd be in for one hard hit.  Also, I want
    to make sure that there are no dogs running on the stairs, as well,
    while she's learning.
    
    I love this new stage, we're having so much fun.
    
    Susan

	Monica,

	just fyi, Emily also puts her foot rather than her knee
	on the step when she climbs.  She nearly stands up at times,
	making me cringe when she climbs.  Luckily, we don't have stairs
	in our home - she's at my sister's twice a week and climbs
	there (with grammy right behind her).  We haven't tried
	to teach her climbing down, yet.

	Karen

    
    11 months !
    
    Pooey my 7 1/2 month does that! Billie gets one leg up, gets the other
    knee on the lower step, and pulls it up and under herself.
    
    The twins are back East for a month with Alice, but Saturday Alice says
    Billie started 'walking' around the job, She's been pulling herself up
    chair legs and so on, now she can wobble around the edges!
    
    Simon

    We never had a gate on the stairs and I taught Brad to go down the
    stairs in the sitting position and to crawl up.  Brad (3 1/2) has never 
    had an accident!!!  
    
    I feel if Mom and Dad are nervous about it the child will be nervous
    too.  So what ever feels most comfortable for you is best!!!
    
    Sasha

    
    
    	Monica,
    
    	I'm a "teach 'em the right way" kind of parent, ESPECIALLY the
    going down part!  Callie at one year has been going up the stairs for
    quite a while, and down on her own for a couple of months.  We never
    intend to let her go up or down unsupervised, but there is ALWAYS that
    split second that something happens and you've forgotten to put the
    gate up, and...  well, having her know how to go down the stairs has
    not only given us peace of mind, it's saved us once or twice. 
    Somewhere, sometime, she'll be at the top of someone's stairs wanting
    to go down.  At least if she has a lot of practice, there's less of a
    chance she'll fall.  
    
    We also taught her how to get off the bed or chair or whatever on her 
    own - same way as going down stairs.  We'd turn her around and "spot" 
    her down the stairs or off the bed.  When she attempted to get off the
    bed or head towards the stairs, we'd say "How do you go down", and
    she'd turn herself around and go down the right way.  NOW she sits on
    the stairs and likes to go down on her rump, facing forward, and THAT
    makes me nervous, but the more we "spot" her, the better she gets, and
    at least I know that if she's going to try to go down stairs, she'll be
    able to go whichever way she wants. 
    
    	Fortunately, she only tries to *walk* up or down while holding on to
    one of us!   How come kids know no fear???
    
    	Justine
                                              

I don't remember how old Evan was, and Justin at nearly 6 months is not
even close to doing this, but I remember what we did about it.  We put a gate
up on the stairs that were long (8 stairs) and which had no padding at the
bottom. For the shorter stairs (5 steps) we let Evan go up and down a lot, but
we watched him like a hawk.  Whenever he went toward them to go down, we would
turn him around and say, "Feet first!"  We sounded like parrots ("feet first!
feet first!  Aawk!") but it worked.  :-) 

        Carol

    Dirk was fascinated by stairs from the time he learned to walk. 
    Finally Jurgen built him a set of "baby" stairs.  This set was three
    baby steps high with a little platform as the last step.  He could go
    up and down to his heart's content.  Then, when he got a little bit
    older, the steps served as a step stool in the bathroom for brushing
    teeth, etc.
    
    The other steps in our house were too dangerous to learn on and had
    gates.
    
    Cheryl

I'm in the cautious group on the stair-climbing.  My twins will be 2 the
end of this month, and they have been climbing up the stairs for quite a
while. They can also get down, but they don't get much practice at either 
as the stairs are kept off-limits by the gate.  They climb up and down
when they are going to bed or getting up, but they have no reason to
go upstairs other than that.  

I'm especially over-cautious (I'm trying to get over this) about the stairs
as I fell down the cellar stairs from the top step when I was about 3, got
a concussion, and spent 3 weeks in the hospital, 1 week of which had already
been scheduled as I was having eye surgery.  I still remember everything
about that fall including how I did it, what I thought, what happened in
the hospital etc. and I've yet to forgive the stairs ;)  I know my fears
of the kids falling down the stairs is totally irrational, but that hasn't
stopped me from being overly cautious with them.  And I know my husband is
already planning to put ballasters on the cellar steps (I fell under the
railing after which my dad put up ballasters) before my folks come home
from Florida or my father will do it for him.

I guess based on my experience, I know that no matter how good the kids are
at climbing stairs there is always the chance they will fall. And in my
house, the stairs are oak, and the landing is ceramic tile, so I'm not
taking any chances.

Cathy

    Cathy:
    Your fears certainly aren't "irrational" especially since you've had 
    an unpleasant memory as a result of falling!
    Simon:
    Good to know Charlotte is not alone in technique - and I know you
    enjoy a little goodhearted boasting about your wunder-girls! 8-) 8-)
    
    Last weekend we had brought up several boxes of old magazines and
    books out of the basement - we were in the process of loading the 
    car to sell them at a 2nd hand bookstore. They happened to 
    be stacked pyramid like in the middle of the livingroom - Charlotte
    was very eager to try her new climbing technique on them!
    
    Our stairs are quite steep and there are a lot of them (12? 14?) so
    she tends to get pretty tired by the time she has gotten to the 
    top. I think though, that probably ought to practice more and use
    gates when we can't supervise....
    
    Monica

    My husband clearly remembers falling off the cellar stairs as
    a tot, and his mother still chastises herself for it thirty-five
    years later! So it is not an irrational fear. I think it's a
    case of balancing a reasonable fear against a reasonable 
    *likelihood* of disaster. 
    
    I keep my daughter away from the cellar stairs because I think
    disaster *is* likely there! (She is a risk-taker.) 
    
    Lucy

We built an extra bannister/railing under our current (adult-size) one.
It allows kids to use the one which best fits their height and small hands.
The railing is made of a large dowel, which is still much smaller than
a regular railing.  

When Evan first started walking up stairs, this is what he used.  

       Carol

    In keeping with Carol's note about a second bannister:
    We added a second, low handle on our aluminum porch door, and
    both my son and daughter mastered the door in short order at 
    young ages. No pinched fingers, and more independence.
    
    Lucy

    ditto on .93 - the second railing for the kids is great.  I have a
    feeling it will remain in the house long after the kids have grown up
    so they will remember this and use the idea when they have kids....
    
    Dave

    I've already spoken to Alan about this idea - it's definitely
    something we will seriously consider. 
    My parents had something along that line - their vestibule had 
    a little closet at one end that contained the coat rod - my dad
    constructed a shorter one, to one side and perpendicular to the 
    main one - we (my brother and I) were hanging our coats on the kiddie
    rod long after we'd grown tall enough to use the main rod, until
    finally, my dad removed it! And Alan and I have already planned to
    reconstruct our hall closet to have one....
    
    Monica

    On the note of milestones, this is a parents question.  When your child
    turned 1, how did you feel?  I'm starting to feel very different.  I
    don't know what it is, just strange.  I feel like I am loosing my
    little girl, she isn't little any more.  
    
    What about anyone else, have the same feelings?
    
    Lisa Cozzens

    Lisa,
    
    When Carrie turned 1, I thought that this is the time when parental
    leave should occur.  She was growing and gaining new skills at such an
    incredible rate.  Fortunately my daycare mother was one who would let
    me discover the milestones, rather than tell me what new thing she
    learned each day, so I didn't feel I was losing my baby quite as much.  
    
    Meg
    

re: .97

For me, every birthday is an occasion for both happy and melancholy thoughts. 
My daughter's last birthday was her 13th.  The feeling that I her childhood 
was over, and the fact that my role as a parent is changing and, in some ways 
is diminishing, was not insignificant.

Clay

    I just went through this last week when Kendrick (my last) turned one.
    I was pretty sad but I have gotten better this week.  They grow soooo
    fast.  My major complaint now is people are starting to nag me about 
    still nursing him now that he is a year (like there is an invisible 
    law that says "do not nurse past one")  I have just started saying 
    that it is a decision that will be made between Kendrick and myself
    and it really is none of their business.  I did say that I would not
    nurse him past his second birthday though (this seemed to pacify my
    mother-in-law just a little)  Has anyone else experienced this????
    
    Vickie

    Vickie,
    
    I nursed both of my older girls for about 2 1/2 years and plan to do
    the same with Atlehi.  My answer to people who would ask me when I was
    planning to wean my kids has always been, "When both of us are ready."
     
    I think part of the curiosity about nursing beyond a year is that many
    people didn't nurse and didn't know anyone who did and there seems to
    be some sort of hangup about anyone less than an infant nursing.
    
    Meg

Vickie-

I hear it frequently from folks about my 11 month old.  I'm glad to
be stopping pumping here at work, but am hoping the baby wants to continue
nursing when I'm home.  I'm not ready to give it up yet.  Am not sure when 
I will want to stop. My attitude has been the same as yours ... as long 
as we both still want it.

I agree, most people who ask either have hangups about breastfeeding in
the first place, or ask out of genuine curiosity because they don't know.
I can usually tell who fits in which category by their question!  If they
say "are you STILL breastfeeding??", they fit in the hangup category!

    I don't think it's a hangup, so much as what is considered the 
    social norm; almost "what's in fashion" if you will. In our mothers'
    generation (I was born in '59) women were considered odd if they
    breast fed at all! 
    Now its fashionable, if you will, to breast feed, but still considered
    very unusual if you do it anywhere past a year. 
    
    However, remember, that just it, its "fashion" for our society. As an
    individual, one makes ones own decision and I applaud anyone who makes
    the decision (and sticks with it) that's right for them!
    
    Monica

Okay, let me be more specific.  I think what bothers me is when people
ask the question with a critical tone, as though the idea is offensive
to them.  I guess I'd feel that way about anything I thought was none of
their business.  

I rarely breastfeed in public any more because the baby's
too interested in everything else to concentrate; even when I do, I do
my best to be discreet. 

I've really appreciated the strangers who've been supportive. Some folks
have walked up and commented how nice it is to see someone breastfeeding.
The people who irritate me are those who give me dirty looks while the
baby is being fussy and I'm stuggling to satisfy her and not expose myself!
Nasty looks are what I need at that moment... :^)

I also get "you not still feeding are you?" comments. As Rebecca is nearly 16 
months, but small, I don't feel odd about feeding in public. However she is too 
interested in what is going on to nurse properly and just takes a few sips 
before trying to get off my lap leaving me with a dripping boob!!

I'll wean her when we are BOTH ready. As I still nurse her to sleep, this may
be a while yet.

There are more negative comments than positive ones. My GP thinks it is great
that I am still nursing AND working full time, my s-i-l was shocked that I had
not weaned Rebecca before returning to work!!

                Celia

    How about the woman that was on Oprah who had been reported to child
    welfare for sexual abuse.  Her child was between 2 and 3 and someone
    saw her breast feeding and called the child welfare dept., and said it
    was sexual abuse.  They actually came and took her child away until
    there was a hearing.  She couldn't believe that some people would think
    it so odd to still be breastfeeding that they would consider it child
    abuse.
    
    Cheryl

    Two of my S-I-Ls breast feed their babies until they were 2 1/2. So,
    I'm used to it now. But, I have to admit I thought it was strange
    when I first saw my S-I-L doing it. And I think I thought that way
    because I had NEVER seen it before. For whatever reason, maybe because
    most babies give it up themselves before/around a yr (?), or the mother
    gets tired of it and weans baby (?), it's just not seen everyday. That's 
    not to say that it shouldn't be done. It's just that people aren't used 
    to it. 
    
    When I was first "introduced" to breast feeding a todler, I thought it
    looked alittle strange because my nephew climbed right up on top of my
    S-I-L, lifted up her shirt, and started chowing. I was alittle taken
    aback because he was so big, he was a small child not an infant
    anymore, and he seemed to control it instead of mommy directing it. But
    after being around it for awhile, I grew more comfortable with it and
    now wouldn't look twice at any woman breast feeding anywhere. 
    
    I also hadn't had a baby yet so was very naive about the whole thing.
    :-) I think "modern" mothers are much more understanding about this 
    because we have breast fed our babies and know it is the natural way
    and natural is best. 
    
    Both of my nephews did give it up themselves before they were 3. I
    guess some babies take longer than others to give it up. The bottom
    line is do what's right for you and your child no matter what other
    people think/say. Maybe by your doing it, people will see it and get
    used to it.
    
    Karen 
    

RE: breastfeeding and cultural norms

I read an interesting article in "Mothering" magazine about breastfeeding
in, I believe it was Egypt?  Anyway, the author commented on two things
that caught my attention:

-- Although their cultural and religious norms are that women are to
remain covered head-to-toe, it's not uncommon to see a woman with
breasts fully exposed when nursing in public.  She commented that one
woman was "waving" her breast to entice her child to eat.  I could just
see THAT happen at the Pheasant Lane Mall !

-- Mothers are encouraged to breastfeed each other's children.  The author
mentioned that the Koran says kinship ties are established when a mother
nurses another's child.  The infant in this article was nursing from
his own mom, his aunts, and his grandmother!  Sure would be nice to
have that kind of backup!

of a funny that happened a month ago.

I was out with some friends including their 4 year old. Rebecca wanted a drink,
so I started to nurse her. At this point, the 4 year old says "I'm thirsty as
well". We then had to explain that her dad would get her a juice box from the
car as my milk was only for Rebecca as she is still a baby. I don't nurse
other people's kids :-) 

          Celia

PS better put a milestone in here - Rebecca has learnt to pull the plug out of
   the bath when she is bored with the bubbles and wants to get out!! At 16 
   months (on Sunday), we now have half our teeth, lots of words and will stand
   alone for a few seconds. Bet she'll be walking within the next few weeks

    So what about fine motor development and cognitive development ? Mine
    is 2. I am wondering about doing puzzles, lacing beads, figuring out
    how to "unstuck" a ball caught in a toy. What's teh age range for
    these skills ?

but mine is 2 1/2 and has just moved from 20 piece framed puzzles to 24 unframed
ones.  She had a little problem with the unframed one at first, but has since
figured it out.

/mtb

    What's a framed/unframed puzzle ? 
    
    I can't imagine a 2 1/2 year old doing a 24 piece puzzle. Is this like
    a 24 piece jigsaw puzzle ? Tell me more. Does she just sit and do it
    because she likes it.
    
    Actually, a friend told me her 2 year old twins were doing puzzles at
    the 4 year old level, sounds amazing.
    
    Does she demonstrate other cognitive and/or fine motor skills at a high
    level ? Like use a scissors, color within the lines, etc. ?
    
    It's so fascinating to understand (or just watch) how they learn.

and the difference between framed and unframed (at least to me) is the framed
pieced rely on a boundary created by heavy cardboard.  The interlocking pieces
are placed within the boundary, and the shape of the piece is etched on the
board to aid in the assembly.  A non-framed puzzle is just 24 interlocking
pieces in a box then when assebled on a table form a retangle.  Does this all
make sense?  So yes she can do a 24 piece jigsaw puzzle.  She sits for long
periods of time doing her puzzles.  We started her off with four piece non
interlock puzzles.  Then moved to 8 interlock, 12 interlock, 16...etc.  She
doesn't color within the lines at all, and tries to use scissors, but doens't
do very well.  She seems to have a very keen eye for shapes...we noticed at
about 2 years old she could tell the difference between a rectangle and a 
square.

michael

    
    A framed puzzle has a tray kindof that the pieces fit into. The frame
    is also part of the picture so helps the kids determine where the
    outside pieces go.
    
    My daughter (28 months) has been doing 20 piece framed puzzles since
    she was 19-20 months old. She too has graduated to the unframed 24
    piece puzzles (these are basically 24 piece jigsaw puzzles, but the
    pieces are larger than adult puzzles). She had a little trouble at
    first with these, mostly understanding the concept of doing the edge,
    but now she is doing much better. 
    
    Anna is also a very good colorer. She stays within lines for the most
    part on straight things (tree trunks, table legs, arms, legs, etc) and
    also does fairly well with circles. When it gets to the more intricate
    shapes she doesn't do quite as well at staying in the lines, but you
    can tell what she was coloring. I don't know if this is a normal
    coloring ability for a not yet 2 1/2 year old or advanced. I just
    marvel at what she can do and the steps she's taken to get there.
    
    Patty

    
    Michael, we had a notes collision. It seems our two kids are very
    similar in the development track. You mentioned shapes: Last winter
    Anna was "playing a game" with the then 4 1/2 year old across the
    street (Anna was again 19-20 months old). The game was a color and
    shapes game of some kind. All I remember was that I sat there in
    absolute shock as Anna matched the cardboard cutout pictures with
    the black outlined shapes. These weren't just circles and stuff, but
    birds, dogs, houses, flowers, etc. I was absolutely flabergasted. 
    She has also been very good with colors and by 2 knew all the primary
    colors, plus a lot of the non-primary (i.e., pink, purple, etc).
    
    Patty

I have a 13 month old daughter called Sarah who seems abnormally intellegent. 
The only problem is that I don't know whether I'm making a mountain out of a
molehill and I don't know how to find out.  Also, if there is something special
about her then I don't know how to help her.

I've had a look through this notesfile and cannot find any information.  Can
anybody help ?

Thank you

Steven

    Your local library will have lots of books on gifted children
    (in the Nashua library they're in a alcove in the "Children's"
    part, for some reason).
    
    The books include such things as checklists, development mile-
    stones, what to do if you suspect/know your child is gifted, 
    and so on.  
    			-John Bishop

Thanks for the reply.  Now all I have to do is to save up for the airline ticket
to visit Nashua library :-)    Seriously though I think I'll visit the local
library.

Steven_sitting_at_a_desk_in_England

    	Could you share with us what your daughter does that makes you
    think she is advanced? 

    	In some respects our two sons are very behind when compared to
    other children, Spencer (2) does not talk much and when he does talk it
    is in words rather than sentences. Due to his size, people often think
    he is "slow" for his age. Griffin at 10 mos. is just starting
    to crawl.

    	However both of these boys seem to be very advanced in
    understanding concepts. They both have *incredible* attention spans.
    Spencer has a full understanding of the concept of numbers and is able
    to count objects up to twenty, he can identify any subset within
    twenty. Apparently this is something that is more able of a three year 
    old.

    	I work with both kids on reading, concepts, and ideas. It has never
    occurred to me to do something special to encourage this (if indeed it
    should be encouraged). Maybe I should, maybe I should just let things
    develop at their own pace. Looks like I should go do some reading
    myself.

    			Wendy

Hi, thanks for your reply

Well, it's not just one thing that springs to mind when thinking about how
advanced my 13 month old daughter is.  This is because she does lots of little
things that amaze my wife and I.  She's also much more advance than the 11
other babies of similar age we have a lot of contact with.  Ok Ok, I know the
following is very 'over the top', I realise I'm biased etc., but Sarah comes
into contact with so many people who remark how bright she is.

For instance she started walking at 11� months and within a week she was
running ( and stumbling ) around as I chased her around the house on my hands
and knees while growling at her.  At 12 months she started playing peek-a-boo
behind the curtains in the lounge.

She knows the names of all her toys and will fetch them if asked.  She
understands reasonably complex sentences such as "Sarah, go and get a book, sit
next to Daddy and I'll read you a story".  She'll then go off, find a book,
bring it back, sit next to me on the bottom step of the stairs and turn the
pages over as I read her the book.  If I say 'Ok Sarah, let's go upstairs and
change you nappy', she'll run to the bottom of the stairs, wait for me to open
the stair gate, quickly crawl upstairs, through the stair gate at the top of
the stairs, walk into the bathroom and sit on the nappy mat waiting for me to
catch up.

She knows where her hands, fingers, thumbs, nose, chin, ears, eyes, feet, toes,
and bottom is, and can point to them if asked.  She also knows clothes such a
vest, nappy ( diaper ), trousers, T-shirt, skirt, coat, shoes, socks, etc.  She
also knows the names of over 20 animals and gets excited and points to them on
television ( say, when watching Jungle Book ) I'm trying to teach her numbers (
1, 2, 3 ) and colors ( e.g. red teddy and green teddy ) at the moment with
limited success.

I've recently taken up juggling and when she sees me doing it all she wants to
do is to take the balls off me and do it herself.  It's comical seeing her
flailing her arms up and down before the balls are sprayed at random around the
room.  She interacts very well with other children as she spends 3 days a week
at a childminder's house with 2 other ( older ) children.  Whenever she hears
music she'll either start to dance or hold out her arms so that she'll be
picked up.  She then expects us whirl her around the room, bobbing and
pirouetting as we go.  When playing she can put shapes in holes, pretend to eat
food from a bowl using a spoon,  cuddle and talk to her teddys, try to wind up
toys ( if she has the strength ) or pull them along on pieces of string.  She
enjoys building little towers before taking great delight in knocking them down
again.  She tries to play to the TV and VCR remote controls but we try to keep
on taking them off her.  She thinks it's fun to push a button to change
channel, or to play with the jog and shuffle wheel on the front of the VCR to
make the video pause or go back and forth.

She talks ( read babbles ) incessantly and says words such as 'kaa' ( cat ),
duck, quack quack, dadee, moma, car, brmmm brmmm, bear, iiishhh ( fish ), yum
yum, etc.  She likes to sing duets with my wife and/or myself in the car by
singing 'awowa awowa, awowa awowa,awowa awowa, ...', 'dada dada, ...', 'dadee
dadee, ...', etc.  We are trying to teach her the different sounds in the
alphabet by asking Sarah to copy what we say, for example I'll say 'Sarah say
k' and she'll normally reply 'k', then I'll try more difficult letters such as
'e' and 's' with varying degrees of success.

There are lots of other examples but I don't want to bore you :-) except to say
I think the most impressive thing about her is her ability to learn so quickly. 
She just soaks things up like blotting paper.  She must know nearly 200 nouns
and over 30 verbs.  We devote A LOT of time to her just teaching her lots of
things.  Unfortunately this has the side effect of making her very demanding. 
She just stimulating all the time.  She either wants us to read her a book, or
play with her, pick her up and give a cuddle, wind up toys, chase her, play
fight, watch over her as she climbs and descends the stairs twenty times, let
her feed the fish ( and make mess ), let her feed herself ( and make a bigger
mess ), push her while she sits on her rocking horse, stack up building bricks
so that she can play with them and then knock them down, the list goes on and
on and on ....

Looking at the things I have written above, because you have more experience,
you might think so what, she seems Ok, nothing special, but to me I don't know
whether what she does is normal for her age, a little advance, or something
special.  This is why I asked in my original note for help to find out whether
she is significantly advanced for her age, and if so can we help in anyway ?


Thank you

Steven

    Steven, there's nothing wrong with being a proud parent. I have to
    smile when I read your note - These things are such miracles for kids
    to do - our daughter amazes and amuses us everyday.
    
    I think we shouldn't be measuring them against one another at this
    age, but cherish their accomplishments (and take joy from them as you
    do!) and keep on helping them learn. Later, when society dictates 
    that we peg them, then we'll have to consider it, but for now,
    just enjoy and encourage, with such enthusiastic and caring parents,
    she'll go far to be sure!
    
    Monica

Sounds like a great kid to me.

But, sure, I'll put a damper on things.
Why do you want to know if she's "gifted"?
Would you do something differently, like
read to her more?  Then do it now.  Put 
her in "special" daycare?  A 13 month old
just needs a warm, caring, supportive
environment with enthusiastic and creative 
teachers/parents. They will absorb as much 
as they can, and ignore the rest.  And note
that this is exactly what non-gifted 
13 month olds need too.


I'm concerned about labeling a kid so young.
And, as Monica says, the implied competition
with other kids.  (But, on the other hand, if
you don't do some comparing, you aren't assessing
whether your kid is "normal", which is very
important.  Early intervention can make a huge
difference for kids who are lagging somewhere.)

I think perhaps you should consider why you want
this information.  Is it in her best interest,
or maybe you should just enjoy her achievements
because *she* did them? (Rhetorical, of course).

Pat

Another vote for a trip to the library... I once came upon a book about
development (accidentally) which was fascinating and was the first
confirmation from a "neutral party" that my son Collin (now 2 1/2, then
was about 16 months) was "advanced" in many areas (physical, verbal,
cognitive).  I regret not checking out the book and I've never been
able to find it again (it was an older textbook-type book and I think
the title was a question like "Is your child gifted?").  It was great
because it was very well organized - was broken down by developmental
milestones (and some very detailed tasks too) and the "average" age
each is achieved, plus ranges for "advanced" development and superior
or "gifted". There were specific tasks listed and corresponding ages
for each of several categories, so it was easy to scan to see the areas
of extreme difference from the average, etc.

I agree, however, that you are doing all the right things to keep your
daughter challenged and enthused with learning, whether or not some
book or test declares her to be "gifted".  I came to the same conclusion
as previous noters that as long as the child is not bored or showing
other signs of frustration due to their faster pace, that the best
thing to do was to treat them as "normal" as possible, without some
big "label" to live up to (or make them feel different than other kids).
This is, of course, my personal opinion, and does not take away my
curiosity about how my son's achievements match with the typical child
of the same age!

Now that our daughter (Morgan, 3 months) has joined our family, it will
be interesting to compare the timetables for some of the milestones (at
least the ones I've managed to record in the babybook and first year
calendar!). Not that I expect her to have the same schedule, but to
give credit for all the remarkable accomplishments each has made.
Personally, I hate the word "gifted", because I feel that all children
are gifted in different areas and are indeed "gifts" themselves...

Good luck finding more information on development and enjoy the time
with your daughter as she continues to blossom into a "little person".
It is truly an amazing process to watch!

-Cori

    
    	Okay, Spencer is doing some things that have us mildly concerned.
    
    	At 2.5 he is not talking much. To date we have heard two complete
    sentences out of him "Up, Up, Mama" and "By By, Daddy" granted not the
    most complicated sentences but we'll take what we can get.
    
        What he is doing, which seems a little stange to me, is:
    
    	*putting together a 28 peice puzzle of the alphabet without help.
    	*putting together 6-12 peice puzzles that he has never seen before.
    	*drawing very clear faces with eyes, mouth and hair (I accused Marc
    	 of drawing the first one that I saw)
    	*knowing his numbers up to 20 (he does not just have them
         memorized, he can actually look at some objects and tell me how 
         many are there)
    	*sorting by category by himself (I had given him 36 little vehicles
    that were all different colors and by himself he had sorted the
    vehicles into the bus pile, the airplane pile etc - these are those
    mini motors from Discovery that are plastic brightly colored
    things)
    	*on his own he is starting to read, I kid you not when we realized
    that he was recognizing the word we started testing him to make sure he
    wasn't just memorizing the wrod from a page. This kid can pick out the
    words from ads and text in newspapers
    	*on his own he is starting to write the letters of the alphabet and
    he has about 7- 10 down so that we can recognize him
    	*has just blown through the computer games (numbers, letters,
    shapes0 that are aimed for 3-6 year olds. He also knows how to boot the
    computer, load his program and exit when he's bored but I think that's
    just copying our behavior)
    
    	We play games with him and challenge him (thank god for all of
    these educational toys) but we are not the kind of people that sit
    around and drill Spencer so that he learns all of this.
    	
    	It seems that everyday he is doing something else that simply
    amazes us.
    
    	Is this normal behavior for a tyke of this age? Am I just being a
    proud mama?
    
    	I do have a call into the Doctor's (I think I want him evaluated
    for a possible hearing problem) and I will ask her if we should be
    doing anything special for Spencer. My gut feel is that there is great
    potential for frustration with such advanced skills on one level and
    such un-advanced verbal skills but I don't have a clue as to how to
    address it (he is after all just a little kid).
    
    				Wendy
                                                         
	

    I too would worry about a hearing problem--but it's possible he's just
    having so much success working on visual stuff that spoken language is
    just being postponed.
    
    He sounds pretty smart and very coordinated--faces with features in 
    particular are hard to draw, and I seem to remember that they generally
    don't show up until four.  Start reading up on gifted children.
    
    		-John Bishop

    Wendy, if Spencer is not drawing people as large heads with arms and
    legs coming out of it, then his drawings are not 'age appropriate'.
    
    :^)
    
    Jodi-

Wendy,

I can only compare to what my own 2yr 9mos. son does, but..... many of the
things on your list do sound "advanced" for Spencer's age - especially the
"reading" and letter-writing (takes extreme coordination and a certain
patience level not typically demonstrated in a 2-year-old!).

My only advice would be to offer extra things to support his budding
interest in words - i.e. flashcards, simple books, word games (like in
the "activity/coloring books" I mentioned in the other milestone note) to
encourage his level of learning.  I also just found a book about teaching
young children to read - has a proven method of introducing words (not
letters) in sets of 5, and gives specific details about how to make your
own flash cards (they studied the most effective size/color/spacing of
the letters for tiny eyes - by the way, it's RED). So far, I have only
flipped through the book, but it says there is no magic age when kids can
learn to read - and no reason why an interested 2-yr-old cannot do it
(I guess this assumes a certain level of verbal skills however). I'll try
to post the book info. in the books note with the title/author, etc. if
you're interested in pursuing it.

You're right - there are some really great educational toys out there that
make learning so much fun by their clever and advanced technology.  Keep
offering those in combination with the simple things - books, cars (I
agree, a great classification teaching-tool), etc.

For what it's worth, my son also draws faces - with the usual eyes, nose,
mouth, and *eyebrows*! I got a kick out of that one. His favorite thing
to draw though, is trucks - tells me stuff like "This is the cab; Here
are the wheels; This is the flatbed; Here's the spare tire;" when he's
drawing it, and I am also amazed at how accurate he's getting. He's very
detail-oriented and seems to enjoy explaining, for instance, the differ-
ence between two items - even if somewhat obscure. ("That motorcycle
rider's helmet matched his black Honda! But, the other rider's helmet
didn't match.")

Good luck bringing out the verbal child behind his obviously active mind!
I don't have much advice in that department, other than what's discussed
in the language note.

-Cori

    Wendy,
    
    I didn't start speaking in sentences until well into my 3's.
    Apparently, I didn't feel the need to speak because my parents
    understood what I wanted or needed when I simply grunted.  It
    wasn't until my parents left me for a weekend with my Aunt and
    Uncle and 3 older cousins that I started talking because I HAD
    to in order to get my needs met.
    
    Just a thought ....good luck,
    Pam

The same thing happened to my brother, he didn't say much until 2.5. Within
a week you couldn't shut him up 8^)

A hearing test is always prudent, it's painless and doesn't take much time.
Talk to your pediatrician first.

Your child seems to have a good grasp on tasks. Most of those tasks don't
require verbal communication. It's possible that he just plain enjoys these
kind of tasks, and is most comfortable with them. He may not have the 'need'
to babble your ear off right now.

Nothing wrong with being a proud mom.

Chris

    I didn't talk till I was 2.5 either.  My mother says its because I had
    two other siblings, a brother and sister, that did everything for me so
    all I had to do was point.  I make up for now however! :)
    
    My son started to crawl over memorial day weekend.  He is seven months. 
    He is not interested in crawling though and only does so to get to
    something so he can stand up.  Will I have a stander and walker at 10
    months?  My husband walked at nine months.  My father walked at nine
    months.  Does this have anything to do with him walking?  
    
    I had him in the "little boy" PJ's last night (not the infant kind, you
    know the difference, don't you?) and I looked at him with tears in my
    eyes, gawd, they grow up so fast, he is a little man now.
    
    cj

    
    >I had him in the "little boy" PJ's last night (not the infant kind, you
    >know the difference, don't you?) and I looked at him with tears in my
    >eyes, gawd, they grow up so fast, he is a little man now.
    
    Wait til he gets his first haircut!  I cried when Brad got his curls
    cut off and went from my little rock-star baby to this little man. 
    They do grow up fast.

    
    This weekend, my lamaze class came to visit and all of the babies
    except Lauren are walking already.  They are all around 14 months.
    I know that the average age for walking is supposedly 13-14 months
    so I'm not to concerned.  The reason Lauren does not walk is a
    confidence issue and I don't know how to overcome it!  She can
    cruise all over the house behind her dumptruck walker as long as 
    we redirect her when she hits walls.  She can walk holding onto
    our hands (but it has to be 2 hands, she sits with one hand).  She
    climbs stairs very rapidly (and really flys when crawling).  She
    doesn't cruise the furniture much but she does know how to do it.
    And lately, she has even stood up on her own (without pulling up)
    although she grabs onto something the second she is standing.
    
    She has been able to do all this since just before thanksgiving and
    I really would have expected her to walk by now!
    
    My husband and I try to encourage her to walk between us but the second
    we let go, she sits right down!  She will not walk holding onto just
    one hand either.  It has to be two hands.  I really think she is afraid!  
    How can we help her develop the confidence to walk?
    
    
    Karen

	Karen,

	We went through a similar thing with Kristen, it seemed like all the
	other babies we knew were walking (even those who were younger by
	a few months).  Kristen was doing all the things you mention, except
	she would walk holding one hand.  She had started cruising the furniture
        at 10.5 months so I was expecting her to walk around 12months. But she
        just wanted to take her own time. I was getting so anxious for her
	to walk (especially since I was a few months pregnant and carrying
	her was getting harder)  Everyone kept telling me "Once she starts
	walking you'll wish she wasn't - she'll be into everything"

	Well, eventually (an believe me it seemed forever...)  she started
	taking a few steps at 14.5 months and by 15months I would say she
	was really walking.  She just wanted to do this at her own pace, which
        is so hard for us parents (me anyway) to learn.  

	Now we're onto our next BIG milestone (talking).  Those same babies
	that walked before her seem to be talking up a storm.  Kristen says
	a bunch of words, but doesn't really talk and will only say the words
	she does know when she really feels like it.  She's 21months now.
	But I'm learning to be patient.  Walking seemed to take forever, but
	she's only been walking for 6months and it seems like she's always
 	been walking.  I suppose the same thing will happen with talking,
	so I'm much more relaxed about it than I was with the walking.

	Good luck being patient, I know it's so hard when it seems like
	everyone else is walking,
	
	Karen T.

	P.S.  Dispite what everyone said, I never regretted it when Kristen
	      started walking, it only made my life easier, not harder as
	      everyone had warned me.  But again, I guess it depends on the
	      child. 

    Atlehi was my latest walker (15 months before she was independent) 
    However, the normal range seems to be 10-18 months.  Being the third
    child with a sister who was dedicated to getting her things when she
    pointed at them, she didn't have a lot of motivation, and I have to
    admit we didn't encourage this mobility milestone.  She was/is light
    enough that carrying her was fine with both of us for sometime.  
    
    However, after lots of false-starts she  woke up one morning and took
    off.  I'm sure Lauren will too when she feels like it.  
    
    meg

    Karen,
    
    I know EXACTLY what you're talking about with Lauren.  You described
    Jonathan PERFECTLY!  He was quite clearly, plain and simple, Scared! 
    Until this weekend, when he finally walked, and now we can't keep him
    down.  He didn't take the normal coupla steps - he went from standing
    to walking halfway across the living room floor, the first time he
    walked at all.
    
    I THINK what did it for him, was that a girl a little younger than him,
    at daycare, just started walking.  I really believe she boosted his
    confidence, as she's only been walking for about 1.5 wks.  Now he walks
    better than her (funny, huh?).  
    
    As for the 1-handed thing, we got through that with a little bit of
    "force" almost.  I would just take one hand, and hold it up high, so to
    him it probably almost felt like he was pulling up, and then just
    started walking.  He reluctantly went along.  It took a while for him
    to get used to this.  Sometimes I'd have to squeeze my fingers out of
    his fist to get him to let go of one hand, but after a while he got
    used to it.  We did that for ~ a month I'd guess.  He's 15.5 mos old.
    My first walked at 17mos, 2nd and 3rd at 15mos.  Late walkers, but
    that's okay by me.
    
    Maybe, if she's not already around other kids that walk, you could
    arrange that.  Ask your parents how old you were when you walked - it's
    pretty hereditary.  And if she's had ear infections, that messes up
    their balance, and can cause them to walk later.
    
    Or try something like this (which was when we first got Jonathan to
    walk 'on demand' - otherwise he'd still rather have crawled).
    
    Jonathan's *FAVORITE* place in the world to be, is at the storm door,
    looking outside.  He'd stand there forever if it weren't so cold.  Just
    jabbering away, banging on the glass.  Yesterday morning, the older
    kids were being dropped off by their dad, and were still outside. 
    Jonathan ADORES those two, and will do anything to get closer to them,
    so I moved Jonathan a few steps back from the door, pointed to Chris
    and Jason, and he took off walking, right to the door.  Of course
    everyone thought that was pretty cool, and we did it a thousand or so
    times more.  After that, Jonathan's been walking like he's always known
    how.  Now if he'd stop giggling in the process, he'd stay up longer (-;
    
    Good Luck!
    

	We play games with Andrew to build his confidence.  He's
	young to be walking, but when he wants to play, we try to
	help him along.

	You can sit Lauren on your leg so that she's nearly standing
	(you're sitting on the floor).  Give her a toy in one hand,
	and have your husband hold her other hand.  Have your husband
	coax her to take one or two steps to him.  When she's comfortable
	there, try a bit further.

	Stand her up so that she's facing away from you, but leaning her
	back against you.  Try to let go of her hands.  She'll be fully
	supported on you, but will get the feeling of standing without
	holding on.  Some nights when we play as a family, I'll stand
	Andrew up against me so he can watch Daddy and Emily.  I can
	actually move back a step so he's no longer supported, and catch
	him if he starts to go down.  He's gradually getting more 
	confidence now, and will let me stand him up facing me and
	doesn't drop right down.  

	I wouldn't worry about Lauren not walking yet.  She's by no means
	late, and is probably too busy developing other skills to be
	bothered with walking!

    Well, I looked and looked for a topic and decided to ask this
    here.
    
    Angeline, now six months old, has been slowly and stubbornly
    refusing to hold her bottle.  This was something she was quite
    adept at since the end of her second month, but now just won't 
    do it.  I'm not overly concerned, just wondering if anyone else
    has experienced a regression like this.
    
    I also noticed last night - she was fussy and wanted her pacifier.
    I picked it up and she opened her mouth wide.  I held it out for
    her to reach and put in her mouth, like she always does.  She
    just yelled at me and opened her mouth again.  So I put it in her
    hand for her to put in her mouth and she got mad and threw it on
    the floor.  Granted, I had a fussy kid, but is this just the 
    beginning of the "test mummy" or "stubborn" stages?
    
    She's always been so busy and so independent with her hands, it's
    kind of taken me by surprise.  Her daycare says she won't hold the
    bottle for her either, and when she tried putting Angeline's hands
    up on it to hold, Angeline got mad and spit out the bottle and
    just cried.
    
    Is this kid getting lazy? 8-O
    						cj *->

    Hi cj,
    
    six  months is a pretty major milestone for some kids, and regression
    is normal when more of the world becomes "real" to them.  She probably
    just wants the reassurance of being held when she takes her bottle for
    a while.  
    
    Nursing babies go through something simalar at this stage, and often
    people think they may be running out of milk when the baby fusses
    instead of nursing avidly.
    
    meg
    
    meg

    
    re. 137
    
    As kids grow, they become more capable physically to do
    things, like holding a bottle or such. We, as parents,
    are thrilled to be less depended upon. But, emotionally,
    the kids still need reassurance that they are loved.
    They associate our doing things for them as "love".
    So, sometimes, they'll test us to make sure we're
    still here for them by regressing. I found that by
    reassuring them a couple of times, like holding the
    bottle for them, they'll be content and will happily
    move on to the next accomplishment. Then they understand
    that it is ok to be independent and still loved.   
    
     
    
    
    
    Eva

    Both the previous notes were reassuring, but I do have one
    question.  I am still holding her as she feeds, she just
    doesn't want to hold it anymore.  I see your point about
    dependency.
    
    Should I ask the sitter if she is still holding her?  I
    sometimes suspect propping is being done.  I guess I should 
    just ask.
    
    It's so hard finding your way with someone else sometimes.  
    I don't want to tread on her feet and she's careful with mine.  
    I try to have her very involved in my decision makings and defer
    to her opinion quite a bit, and ask her advice even more. 
    Being a single parent, I think I'm almost making her my
    partner in decisions on Angeline's lifestyle and habits.
    
    I guess that's why I like this file so much.  I can see what 
    everyone else thinks before I act with my sitter or with the
    pediatician.   You guys are great!
    
    						cj *->
                                                      

Hi cj,

My daughter Molly just turned 6 months also. (or would have, if there had
been a Feb. 29 this year)

She doesn't hold her bottle, she never has shown interest in doing it, sometimes
she puts her hands on it, but more to pull it out than to put it in.

Sometimes kids "master" one skill and then get bored with it and switch to 
the next new skill.  Right now, Molly is learning to sit up, so if Angeline
is at some other major milestone, the bottle holding might just not be 
important to her anymore.

My older daughter Erin was never really interested in holding a bottle either
until she was much older.  At that point we went to a sippy cup, since she
had the skills to use one.

Jackie

    
    re. .140
    
    I didn't worry too much about consistency of "procedures",
    for lack of a better term. Kids know that people are unique
    and it is ok for 2 adults to have their own preferences,
    like holding versus propping, as long as the kids' needs
    are met. My husband and I hold our kids differently, put
    diapers on in different ways (can you imagine that?), etc.
    I started out really concerned about the "right" way to
    do things and I realized after a while that there was no
    one "right" way for everyone. If there is a "right" way,
    it is the way to have put smiles on everyone's face. That
    translates to let the do-er do it his/her way, be happy
    that it is done (however differently) and don't worry about
    it.
    
    Eva
    
                                                         

    CJ,
    
    Jonathan did the same thing, though I don't exactly remember the age. 
    I've always preferred to hold my kids' bottles, so I suspect that he
    was a bit older.  But anyway .... he was doing great holding it, and
    picking it up and slamming it down and tossing and the whole bit. 
    Clearly quite ABLE to physically deal with it.  And then he just
    refused to do it.  I'd take the bottle, and him, sit on the couch, and
    he'd drink a few sips and start squawking at me.  He would actually
    take my hands and put my hand on the bottle, then when I did, he'd pat
    my hand (as if to say "Good Mommy!").  The only thing I could attribute
    it to was ....
    
    when he held the bottle himself, even though I was holding him, I was
    easily distracted by other things (TV, the other 2 kids etc, thinking
    about all the rest of the stuff that needed to be done...), and found
    that when HE held the bottle, I very rarely maintained any kind of eye
    contact with him.  When I held the bottle, I usually stared and talked
    to him.  If I held it and got distracted from looking at him, he'd
    "squawk" or something to make me look at him again.  If that wasn't
    what it was, then I have no idea, but after a while, we ditched the
    bottle altogether, so it didn't much matter.  
    
    I have found, especially as a single parent (because I think it's a LOT
    easier to not have time for) it's critical to make a point of spending
    5 or 10 mins just sitting with them and totally devote yourself to
    them.  I have a hard time being consistent about it, but it makes
    everyone a lot happier when we do.
    
    We're going through the same thing now w/ eating.  He has learned how
    to use a fork, almost perfectly.  He is fully capable of feeding
    himself, and for a few wks he wouldn't let anyone go NEAR him!!  Now,
    if I don't feed him at least 1 meal/day, then he just won't eat.  He
    gets mad and "yells" and holds the fork out for me to do it.  Okay, I
    get the hint!  And when I take the fork to feed him, he giggles and
    claps, and eats TONS of food.
    
    This is at almost-18 mos.  Now if I could get the older two to use
    utensils consistently (-;
    
    

    Well Angeline held one juice bottle for a while yesterday, and
    even played with it when she finished.  I've taken into consi-
    deration all replies and am going with the probablility that the
    novelty has worn for her and she's off learning something else.
    
    I have noticed over the past few days that she is starting to
    "signal" to me when she wants her food or pacifier.  She is
    very distinctly looking at me, yelling, emphatically putting
    her fingers in her mouth, taking them out, yelling, putting them
    back in, etc... all while staring at me.  Mom's not dense, I
    get the hint!   
    
    I get so proud over these little things!  I try to relish and
    savor each one rather than look forward to the next accomplishment.
    I expect to never be here again and I just want to focus on and
    remember every little achievement of hers.  I guess that's why I
    was questioning her stopping holding the bottle.  I take such 
    pleasure out of her independence, but love when she needs me.
    
    						cj *->

    There is the school of thought that says that the bottle should be help
    by the giver anyway, rather than the baby. That way the baby never
    becomes fully attached to the bottle as "mine" and can later give it up
    a bit more readily, progressing to a cup.
    
    Food for thought.
    

	Then again, not holding the bottle for the baby can
	inspire *creativity* on the child's part, such as figuring out how
	to drink from a bottle that's laying down on a high
	chair tray.

	Karen, with tongue firmly planted in cheek

    
    Lauren had her 15 month checkup and the Doctor wanted to know if she
    knew any words.  Well, while we were there, Lauren used about 20 of
    them.  I think she knows about 30 words (not just imitation, either).  
    
    From what the Doc said, 30 words is way above average for a 15 month
    old.  Is this true?  I thought it was normal.  
    
    One cute thing... my husband sings that song that goes something like
    "Daylight come and me wanna go home"....  well, Lauren responds with
    "Day-O".  If you know the song, you'll understand!  Its so funny!
    
    Karen

    karen,
    
    Sounds like Lauren has a pretty advanced vocabulary for a 15 monther. 
    Enjoy it!  she will be able to communicate her needs more quickly, and
    tell you when/if something hurts and where, instead of just screaming. 
    it is also nice to have a child respond to you in real words.
    
    meg
    
    

Karen,

Lauren sounds like our daughter Shruthi.  She used to speak a similar number of
words at  15 months...and I used to try and keep track of the words she knew! 
Well I very soon lost track of them...by the time she was 18 months, she was
talking in almost complete sentences and in another month, she was pretty
fluent!  She's almost two now and everyone who meets her is amazed at how
clearly she can express herself and also at her grammatically correct sentences!

Like Meg says, it is nice to have them talking so early...Shruthi could very
easily let me know when she felt cold, hungry...or if she something was
bothering her!  And it felt really good to hear her respond to my questions
unlike the first year!

Have fun!  We never ceaze to be amazed by the things she comes up with sometimes!

--Chaya.

ps:  I haven't found too many kids of Shruthi's age or older than her who talk
as fluently as she does...so I assume you will find the same is true of Lauren!

>>    Enjoy it!  she will be able to communicate her needs more quickly, and
>>    tell you when/if something hurts and where, instead of just screaming. 
>>    it is also nice to have a child respond to you in real words.
    
My son David was also an early and fluent talker.  However, one thing I
learned was that *can* talk is not the same as *does* talk. :)   I don't think
the doctor heard more than about 3 words from him until he was about 5 years
old.  And even now (he's 7 years old), if he's hurt or upset, all we get
is screaming!
    
However, I agree that when they are talking, the early talkers are
delightful to interact with!

			cheryl

    
    I think it's common that the first child speaks much sooner and better
    than subsequent children (at least according to our pedi!).  Chris was
    talking GREAT!!, full sentences, little stories, by the time he was
    18mos-2yrs.  Jason barely said a peep till he was almost 3 (he had
    Chris to do all his talking for him!), and Jonathan is 18 mos, and will
    talk ONLY if no one is listening to him.  If you ask him to say
    something, he'll just laugh at you.  He has an understandable
    vocabulary of about 6-8 words.  He is starting to blabber on the
    telephone though - he's so funny with such SERIOUS! expressions!!
    
    The down side is .... they don't ever STOP!!  Chris and Jason both
    start gabbing from the second they wake up, and don't stop till they
    fall asleep.  Actually Jason talks in his sleep too.... be careful how
    anxious you are for this!  Because really, there's not that much that a
    kid has to say that you haven't already heard 73 times (and you thought
    Barney could make you nuts!!)
    
    

    They STOP talking when you hand them the phone to talk to Grandma!  Of
    course they talk doubletime, double volume and RIGHT NEXT TO YOU when
    *you're* trying to talk on the phone (I'm convinced it's hardwired
    somehow to their adrenal gland).
    
    Leslie

Shruthi has been talking fluently only for the past four-five months, so we are
still at the stage when we are finding the whole thing very cute!  I must admit
though on some particularly tiring days, I have asked her to stop talking!

Reg -1, you are right on the mark!  Shruthi told me all that she was going to
tell grandma when we called her...and here I am, making this international call
with precious minutes ticking by..she holds the phone to her ear..and refuses to
say anything :-(   I am not sure if this is something to do with the fact that
she can't see whom she is talking to..but she plays dumb when she's given the
phone!

--Chaya.

	Re. talking to doctors

	Emily actually spoke in front of her pedi for the very
	first time last week (she's 34 months old).  She also had
	a large vocabulary at young age, but would clam up when
	someone she didn't know was around.  It got to be quite
	amusing, as the instant the stranger left the room, she'd
	talk a blue streak, as though she'd been busting a gut to
	keep it in.  One time, the doctor peeked his head back in
	the room and said, "I heard that!"

	

    Along the same lines, I had to register David for kindergarten a couple
    of weeks ago.  They asked some questions regarding his development;
    some of the thresholds seemed very low.
    For example, they asked if he could count to 10.  I replied that he can
    count to 1,000.  They asked if he knows his full name.  I replied that
    he can write his full name, address and telephone number.  I know he's
    bright, but I don't think he's inordinately bright, and I  think their
    thresholds need to be brought up a bit.  Am I off base here? 
    Sarah

    
    RE: .155
    
    I think that kindergarden readiness has a lot more to do with social 
    and seperation readiness vs. possession of certain acquired skills. 
    Kindergarten/schooling focuses on teaching skills to children who 
    are ready/able to learn.  
    
    Kids come from all kinds of backgrounds and develop at their own
    individual rate.  I don't necessarily think the thresholds need to
    be raised as much as the curriculum/learning atmosphere needs to
    be able to handle children at varied skill levels.
    
    cj/  

    re .155
    
    Well, if it makes you feel better, the requirements for first grade
    aren't a whole lot higher.  If I remember correctly, this was what was
    'required' for academics in Nashua (to enter 1st grade);
    
    o be able to count/write 1-20
    o recognize all the letters of the alphabet in either case (but not 
      necessarily both)
    o know their name
    o be able to write their name
    o be able to follow simple instructions (color the circle red)
    o know their colors and shapes
    
    I think that was about it.  My boys went into 1st (after a private
    kindergarten) knowing how to read and write LOTS of stuff.  Chris was a
    full year ahead of the other kids academically, but socially was at
    about the same place.  Jason was about 3/4 year ahead academically, and
    probably a few months ahead socially.  They put them both in
    accelerated reading and math classes, and at the end of 1st grade, Chris
    was reading at a 5th grade level.  Of course, since the public school
    system strives to make all kids equal, he's now in 3rd grade, and
    probably still only reads at about a 5th grade level (or maybe even
    closer to 4th).
    
    Jason basically slacked off for a year because he's so BORED, so that
    the rest of the kids can "catch up". (as he puts it)
    
    Makes ya wonder!
    
    "Your son marches to the beat of a different drummer.  But don't worry,
    soon we'll have him joining the parade!"

>>    Along the same lines, I had to register David for kindergarten a couple
>>    of weeks ago.  They asked some questions regarding his development;
>>    some of the thresholds seemed very low.
>>    For example, they asked if he could count to 10.  I replied that he can
>>    count to 1,000.  They asked if he knows his full name.  I replied that
>>    he can write his full name, address and telephone number.  I know he's
>>    bright, but I don't think he's inordinately bright, and I  think their
>>    thresholds need to be brought up a bit.  Am I off base here? 

Would you deny a child that cannot count to 100 entrance to kindergarten? 
Would you deny entrance to a child that cannot write his or her name?

They wouldn't be asking these questions if the answers were always "yes."

Reminds me of a comment someone made in high school about some standardized
test.  He said, "It's so easy, anybody can score in the 90th percentile."  By
definition, only 10% get in the 90th percentile, regardless of what he or you
or I think of the difficulty of the particular test.

						Brian

    
    	How much weight does an average child gain in their second year
        of life?  Lauren only gained 11 ounces in 3 months (since her
    	1 year checkup) and I know that is normal so I'm not concerned.
     
    	You'll laugh at why I'm asking.. you see, I bought all these 3T
    	clothes for next winter at great prices but now I'm beginning
    	to think I should have got 2T!  Maybe they will fit 2 winters 	
    	from now?  
    
    	Lauren is in the 50th percentile for height and weight.  What do
    	other girls in the 50th weigh at age 2 and age 3?  And how tall?
    
    	If anybody has a growth chart they could photocopy and send me,
    	let me know!  SHR3-1/P32.  The one I have only goes to 18 months.
    
    	Thanks,
    
    	Karen
    
    	P.S... moderators, I looked under "size", "height", "weight", 
    	"curve" and "grow" and didn't feel that any of the notes there
    	fit my question.  199 was the only one that came close...
    
    

    
    If you have it, I think there are growth curves in Penelope
    Leach's "Your Baby and Child: From Birth to Five Years" 
    (might not have the title exactly...).
    
    I think that the you're seeing a drop in growth/weight gain that
    is a result of increased mobility and activity at this age.  
    Certainly she won't continue to grow as she did the first
    year or she'd weigh a ton!   However, I still bet she can
    wear the 3T's next winter (perhaps they'll be a little big).
    You may get two years out of them...
    
    cj/

    karen,
    
    I hesitate to believe any of the "growth charts" as none of my kids has
    ever fit any of the nice, little curves.  I can tell you at 22 months
    Atlehi is just into size 2 clothes, and only because of the length
    issue, she is still a very skinny baby.  her sisters are/were the same
    way so I don't fret and niether does my DO.
    
    I wouldn't worry about the 3T clothes and would plan on them for next
    winter.  Much better to have too big winter clothes than too small.
    
    meg

    >> How much weight do they gain in the 2nd year 
    
    
    ...ha!  NONE!  At least it sure seems that way w/ the kids I've known. 
    Actually it seems that Jonathan has gained ~1 pound in the past 6 mos
    or so, and if anything, now that it's getting warmer out, I'd expect
    him to lose a little, instead of gain anymore.  At 12 mos, he only
    weighed a few lbs less than his 3 yr old brother.  He weighed about the
    same, or more than his 2+ yr old cousin.  
    
    Chris and Jason were pretty chubby babies, so while they still GREW (as
    in got taller/longer), they didn't actually gain any weight.  It seem
    that when they're about 7 or so they start taking off again,  but you
    should have a few years reprieve between ~2-6 yrs old.  
    
    

I don't remember what Erin weighed at 1 year, I think around 22 pounds,
At 2 years she was 28 pounds.  I don't remember what her height was, about
33 inches I think.  She was 50th percentile for height and weight.

She is starting to get more than one year out of clothes, which is nice.
She just got back from Florida for a week, and we had enough summer clothes
from last year that still fit her (2T) that we didn't have to buy any more
now.  They won't last the whole summer though.  

For this winter, half her clothes are 2T and half are 3T.  She also has a lot
of 3T stuff that is too big for her, but it will fit her next winter.  At this
point you don't run the risk of growing through a whole size "off season."  Over 
the past month or so, I've been putting away more and more 2T stuff that is too 
small.  She's 2 1/2 now and 30 pounds.

Jackie

    While Russell didn't gain an enormous amount of weight at that age, he
    did get very tall.  I'm still buying him clothes 2 years above his age 
    (he's four and wears a size 6 now).  I used to have my mother in
    hysterics as I described my son's belly hanging out of every shirt
    because he has a very long body.  
    
    Just something to think about..........
    
    	marianne

	Emily was in size 24 months at 1 year, 2T at 18 months,
	and 4T at 2

	We virtually skipped over 3T...

	Karen

    Around the time Angeline turned 3 months old, she developed an
    intense love to have her face covered.  All night, in her sleep
    and awake, she pulls her blanket up over her head.  I pull it
    off, she has it back up within 30 mins.  I finally gave up.
    She also loves to scootch over and put her face up close to her
    bumpers.  This has developed over the past month.  I'm forever
    waking up and going over and pulling her back to the middle of
    the crib.  A note in here somewhere mentioning bumpers and SIDS
    has made me nervous of this latest habit of hers.  But, I don't
    know whether to remove the bumpers or not.  Which is the greater
    danger at this time?  
    
    Even awake, for the past three months her best toy is a receiving
    blanket, cloth diaper, towel, or any piece of clothing laying 
    around.  She'll cover her face with anything.  If nothing is
    readily available, she'll pull up her shirt or her bib.  She
    really is a funny little nut!   I noticed lately, when she
    pulls something big - say a sheet over her, when she goes to
    pull it off if it continues to cover her face, she even alternates
    pulling with her hands until her face is uncovered.  (Imagine...
    hmm...like you're reeling in a rope type motion).
    
    Anyways...as a result of all this, she has been playing peek-a-boo
    since she was just over 3 months.  As soon as she developed this
    love of covering her face, I started saying "where's my baby, 
    where's my baby?".  She'll pull whatever it is off and smile, then
    I say peek-a-boo.  She loves it!  She covers her face right back
    up and repeats, playing for as long as her mood commands at the
    time.  I've never had to hold something up to teach her peek-a-boo.
    She does all the work.  
    
    I expect when the weather is warmer and I get her blanket out of
    the crib, I'm going to have to give her something, a cloth diaper
    perhaps, to bring to bed to cover her face or she'll never sleep! 
    
    She has one of those real nice fluffy cloth books.  She's always
    got it over her face, thus coining the phrase "always has her
    nose stuck in a book" (sorry, couldn't resist that one ;-> )
    
    					cj *->
    

    My daughter has been in the 50th percentile for most of her life.  
    She's consistenly worn her age size...that is at 2 wore a 2, at 3 a 
    3, and so on.
    
    So, you may have bought an entire year ahead, but you can hope that 
    you get to use the clothes in 1997 !
    
    One nice thing about a slow grower is that the clothes last a lot
    longer.
    
    judy

    This seems as good a place to ask as any.
    
    Angeline is steadily becoming a total horror show when it's time
    to dress.  She just gets so worked up and upset you'd think I was
    dragging her across a bed of nails.  It's getting to the point if
    she sees me walk toward her with a t-shirt or something in my 
    hand, Deviline comes out in full force.
    
    Any suggestions?   Just a phase?  When she was really small, newborn,
    she used to act like this any time you changed her diaper. I mean, it
    was horrible.  That kid would sit all day in a diaper full of anything
    and you'd never hear a peep, but the second you touched those tapes...
    Deviline.   She got over that and was great for the past four months
    or so.  Now this.   And now it's a lot worse because the real tears
    are there and you'd think she was really being hurt.
    
    							cj *->

    
    Lauren can be a bit difficult when it comes to changing for bedtime. 
    It is probably a combination of being tired and not ready to go to
    bed yet.  I generally change her at least 1/2 hour before bedtime and
    sometimes I do it in stages.  I'll be in the living room and slowly
    start swiping items of clothing from her.  Once I have her down to her
    onesie, we trot off upstairs for a quick diaper change.  If she is
    in a struggling mood, we just change the diaper and she goes back 
    downstairs still with no PJs.  But, I won't read to her until her 
    PJs are on.
    
    In the morning, sometimes we have a problem too, more so on the 
    weekdays because we are rushed and not giving her our full attention.
    Lots of times, we give her a sippie cup with juice that she nurses
    while getting changed and dressed.  
    
    Other tricks... change her on the floor or bed for a change of pace.
    Give her a stuffed animal to play with (this can make dressing
    more difficult but if it works...).
    
    Lauren is 16 months... not sure how old Angeline is!
    
    Karen

    
    We went through this same thing with Alyssa, it took at least 15
    minutes to get her dressed in the morning.  Now, at 17 months, she
    almost always holds her arms up for me to put her shirt on and most
    always ducks her head into the top.  She even tries to put her socks on
    herself.  
    
    There are still times when she doesn't want to get dressed --
    especially if she is tired.  And, still have some problems sometimes
    with her diaper.
    
    In short, its a phase, well it was with Alyssa.
    
    Joolz
    

    re. 169
    
    Angeline is 7 months.  I've tried toys, pacifier, different
    locations, all those good suggestions, but they haven't worked.
    She sees those clothes in my hand and she starts.  Doing it
    in steps only increased the amount of times she got upset.  I'd
    try comforting her during the changing, but she'd just start back
    up again as soon as I did.   I'm going to have to just chalk it
    up to a phase I guess.   Seeing two responses already of "been 
    there, done that" helps a lot.   
    
    re. 170
    
    When Angeline got over the scream-bloody-murder-when-having-her-diaper
    changed-stage, she did develop this real handy trick of whipping her
    legs and butt up as soon as the tapes were undone.  It was pretty
    comical to see.  You'd hear "rip, rip" and, then her bottom would 
    whip right up like she was spring loaded.  I guess she finally realized
    it is "better" with a cleaner diaper.  
    
    Well anyways, any further suggestions will be welcome, but I do 
    feel better knowing we aren't alone in this.  I'd feel even better
    though if I saw it diminishing instead of increasing, but...patience
    Ma Ma, have patience.
    						cj *->

    When Sarah, now 8, went through this phase, we had a "helper" to make
    it easier.  I had a Tweety Bird puppet, who would talk to her and
    pretend to be putting on the clothes.  It worked like a charm.  Tweety
    could dress her, but Mom couldn't.
    
    You could try to make a game of dressing.
    
    Another thing I remember about night-time dressing was that Sarah
    saw this as "quality time".  She just loved to be naked and chased
    around the house.  After I got over the nonsense of being a Mom, and
    learned to play the game, I noticed that after a few treks around
    the upstairs bedrooms, she allowed herself to be caught and dressed.
    
    After a while, I learned that parenting is not such a serious
    business.  Playing is allowed.
    
    Diana

	Andrew didn't cry while being changed, but *never* stayed still.

	I can remember thinking the should have an Olympic event - dressing
	a moving target, since I could actually work up a sweat trying to
	get clothes on him.  I even learned how to change him while
	he was crawling away!  Funny, I hadn't even noticed he'd grown
	out of it until a week or two ago.  I think he was around 10 months
	when he stopped trying to get away.

	Now, if I could just convince him that kicking mommy while
	she puts on his pants is *not* a funny game...

	Karen

    What is the relationship in terms of time (if there is one) between a
    child crawling, standing, cruising and walking.
    
    Alyssa is about 8.5 months old and has been crawling since about 7
    months.  Alittle after she started crawling, she pulled herself up to a
    standing position.  Soon after, she was cruising.  When I help her with
    her balance, she is able to take a few steps.
    
    She can pull herself to standing if she holds on to something, but she
    can't stand without pulling herself up whether it be holding onto the
    wall, legs of furniture, side of the crib etc.
    
    When can I expect her to stand on her own and be able to walk
    unassisted. (Assuming some type of relationship between the activities)
    
    Nancy

	I didn't really see a definite relationship between the
	different stages in my kids.

	Emily crawled around 5.5 to 6 months, pulled herself up at
	7 months, cruised right away, and walked at 8.5 months (she
	seemed to go right from one thing to the other, including going
	from standing unassisted to walking in 3 days.

	Andrew crawled at the same age, pulled himself up a little
	sooner, cruised in a few weeks, but didn't take his first steps
	until almost 10 months.  He started walking regularly (ie,
	more often than crawling) at 11 months.  As far as standing
	unassisted, he actually didn't really do that until *after* he
	took some steps (if he didn't start moving right after letting
	go, he'd just plop down onto the floor).

	So, although both kids crawled at about the same age, they
	were nearly 3 months apart for walking.

	Karen

    I can't tell you, each kid is different.  When she feels confident
    enough she will take off walking.  For some kids it can be as early as
    9 months, (shudder) or as late as 18, and some kids go from creeping to
    running without the cruising or crawling stages.  Atlehi had enough
    people who would walk her around that she felt perfectly content to
    cruise or walk being balanced by someone for about 4 months before she
    took off walking on her own. (about 15 months) Lolita put up with
    people walking her around and holding her hands for about two days and
    took off on her first birthday.  Carrie also walked about a year
    without a lot of being walked around between hands.  
    
    meg

Re: The time between crawling and walking.

   For Evan:    6 months      (ages 6 mos, 12 mos)
   For Justin:  6 hours  (actually, I believe it was less...)
                              (age 8 mos)

    
    This really has nothing to do with development, but I thought I would
    post to see if anyone has ever run into this problem.
    
    Yesterday, my daughter (18 months) was sleeping when I left for work so
    daddy was the one to get her dressed, etc and off to daycare.  He said
    that she stood up, took a few steps and her legs gave out and she said
    "help" cuz she couldn't get back up.  This happened a few more times. 
    Bob just thought Alyssa slept in a wrong position and that her legs
    were still asleep or something.  Alyssa has been walking since 10
    months, so its not like she just started.
    
    When he dropped her off, he asked the teachers to watch her and
    explained what had happened.  The daycare called a couple hours later
    to say that she was still collapsing.  When Bob got home fromm picking
    her up, we noticed that she was limping and that when she was on the
    floor, she had trouble getting up - she had to put all her weight on
    one leg to be able to stand.
    
    We had a 3pm appointment with the dr. and in the meantime, Alyssa took
    like a 1-1/2 hour nap.  We scooped her up and off we went.  The dr.
    twisted and massaged her legs and hips to check out her range of
    motion, etc. and had her walk up and down the hall.  She was walking
    normal at that point.  He didn't see anything that warranted X-rays and
    told us that kids this age always falling, she may have pulled
    something and was having muscle spasms.  We got home and she was fine
    and has been since.  She had no fever or no signs of virus that would
    be the cause.
    
    What a scarey thing to have happen - we were thinking the worse
    possible situations up to going to see the dr.
    
    

    
    I remember a similar sensation several years ago .... actually, the
    problem was that my leg was completely numb - couldn't feel it at all. 
    So, I was standing okay, but it sure felt BIZARRE! and I think if I
    wasn't an adult, I wouldn't have been standing at all.
    
    The Dr. attributed it to a pinched/strained nerve.  We were able to
    pinpoint it to the fact that I was "trapped" at my desk for ~12 hours
    one day, only getting up for a quick trip or two to the bathroom.  Not
    that sitting for 12 hours was necessarily evil, but is was unusual for
    ME, and he attributed that as the cause.  It went away all by itself,
    but it sure was strange!
    
    Did she do anything unusual that you can think of?  Just learn how to
    use a slide or something like that??
    
    Mine went away and never came back (though I start getting scared if
    I've been sitting more than a few hours... (-;).
    
    

I have a question about sitting up, getting into a sitting position,
and pulling up.

My daughter is 10 months old.  She HATES to be on her stomach and will 
roll off it in a second.  I've seen her roll 99% on her stomach to get
a toy and then roll back to play with it.

The problem is that she won't get into a sitting position which means
that she cannot really pull up on things. She doesn't show any interest
in pulling up on anything except us and her bathtub (great, the only 
place where she will try to pull up!) so she *can* do it but won't.  She 
also won't sit unless she really wants to. It's like bending a wooden
board!  Something has to be pretty interesting for her to do it.  This
makes it impossible when you want to sit her down to play on a 
non-carpeted surface because she will just lie back immediately if you 
have actually succeeded in getting her to sit.  

Her fine motor skills are great and she walks with our hands or with her
push toy so she seems "normal" in other areas.  She's a small baby and 
strong so I would think she would have been more likely to be doing this
stuff.

She has a regular checkup on Tues where I am going to ask about this but
I was curious to see if others have experienced this.

Thanks,

Nisha

    Nisha,
    
    Brad didn't sit til he was something like 14 months old [11 months
    adjusted], and we didn't think he would ever sit. In fact, he started
    walking at 15 months, so he was crawling and cruising well before he
    attempted or was successful at sitting.  In his case, they said it was
    from the prematurity because premature babies tend to do things
    out of order from normal development milestones, but sitting
    definitely didn't interest him.  The only time it was a problem was
    when one of our friends laid out a nice blanket on the floor and
    plunked him down to sit. She didn't realize he couldn't sit since he
    was well past the 'normal' age for sitting, and he promptly fell over
    backwards.  At least he wasn't on the ceramic tile kitchen floor.
    
    You can ask your pedi about it, but I don't think it's anything to
    worry about.  She'll eventually sit, but some children just take longer
    or have no interest in sitting to motivate them to do it.
    
    

re: .181
Thanks for the information.

I did bring it up with my pedi this morning.  He didn't seem concern
at all.  She will do it when she wants to was his reply.  I knew it 
in the back of my mind but I wanted the reassurance.  The doctor
did note that this is becoming more common now that babies are being 
put to sleep on their backs and sides.      
    
-- Nisha

    Aaron will be 6 months old on Thursday and is already showing signs of
    stranger anxiety.  Isn't he a little young for this?  It kind of hurt
    his aunt and uncles feeling when he pulled back away from them this
    weekend (he only sees them twice a month, tops).  Of course they don't
    really listen to me when I tell them to ignore him when they first see
    him to let him get used to them.  They want to be right in his face
    first thing (which I wouldn't appreciate either!).  None of the aunts
    and uncles who live in this area have children.  We spent most of the
    night with me holding him and taking him from person to person to spend
    a little time with, but in a "safe" space.
    
    I wasn't expecting this for at least another month.  Could that fact
    that he's teething also have effected his reaction to them?
    
    sandy

    Souncs like Aaron is right on schedule.  Stranger shyness can start
    anywhere from 5 1/2 months on.  At least he didn't do what Atlehi did
    when she first experienced this.  She puddled up and screamed at
    someone she had adored just a month before.  It took an hour before she
    would even look at Linda.  
    
    meg

    One of my sons had stranger anxiety - especially with blonde women -
    from age 6 months til about 13 months.
    

    I've noticed lately Angeline is always kissing her stuffed animals.
    She can sit with five around her and pick each one up and give it
    kisses, or before she plays (and during play) with each one,  she
    kisses it.  
    
    Do you suppose this is because I kiss her so much?  I mean, am I
    making her affectionate?   I'm hoping it's not because she's lacking
    something.  I've always been afraid I might be smothering her because
    I love that little face so much :-).  When she's in bed at night, 90%
    of the time she is hugging some animal or other.   
    
    She doesn't really kiss me yet, but I've just told myself it's because
    there's this big head in her face.  Once in awhile she'll give Mama
    kisses, but I prompt her.  
    
    So what do my armchair psychologists think?  Is she loving or lacking?
    No doubt you can guess how my vote is cast :-)
    							cj *->

   This is strictly my personal opinion - I'm not a doctor and I don't
   even play one on TV.... But, since you asked...
   
   I don't believe kids are all that good at identifying what they are
   lacking.  I also believe that kids will mimic what they learn.  For
   example, my kids have, from time to time, tried to breast feed their
   baby dolls - I believe they would not have learned that if my wife
   were not nursing the baby.
   
   So... I believe that your little one is playing kissy-face because she
   learned it from you, and not because she lacking anything...
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom

    cj,
    
    That is about the age that Katie learned to kiss her "dolly"
    I remember that she'd only kiss dolly and not us.  Now (a few months
    later) at 14 months, she's kissing all of us.
    
    I tend to agree with Tom, that it's something that she's learned
    from you and not necessarily something she's lacking.  From what
    you've said in your notes, I feel that Angeline is getting lots
    of love.
    
    So, relax and enjoy...kisses to you will be next :-)
    
    	Linda

    
    My daughter (21 months) is always kissing her stuffed animals, toys,
    even the doggie lawn ornament at my parents house.  I'm sure all kids do
    this.  I'm sure at this age, she doesn't know that kisses = love, but
    has learned kisses by watching others around here.
    
    The best part is when Alyssa just comes over and kisses and/or 
    hugs me - without me asking for one.  
    

    I kind of suspected that it was just a form of imitation.  I didn't
    even consider that it was just imitation though.  I was hoping she
    was showing signs of being a loving child.  But I believe you to be
    right, she/they may be a little to young to associate the action itself
    with an affection.
    
    Cheryl,
    
    I cracked up picturing your daughter kissing lawn ornaments.  I
    sincerely hope none of those with the big-butted woman bent over are
    around :-)
    						cj *->

    
    No, luckily my dad only has the doggie sitting next to his real fire
    hydrant (hes a former fire fighter).  I couldn't believe it either -
    but it didn't really phase me too much, seeing that she is in to
    kissing everything.

    re: 16.168 - Clothes Torture
    
    Advice that I've gotten on this topic of children making a fuss on
    the changing table (diapering or clothing them) is, if you can't
    distract them with a toy, then just ignore them: don't talk, don't
    soothe, don't try to cheer them up, just go about your business and
    get it done.  They'll learn that making a fuss leads to nothing: no
    extra attention, etc.  This is from Burton White, a child psychologist
    who specializes in "the first three years of life."  

    Our pediatrician called diapering a squirming kid "baby rodeo". I tried
    talking, singing, toys, binkies, silly faces, but nothing worked with
    either of my kids. They still fussed and squirmed and screamed. What
    finally worked was a mild smack on the behind. Not very subtle, but
    then they would just lie there and cry. I could get it over with
    quickly and then give them a hug. Both of them were exactly the same
    this way at about 18 months; my son is now 5 yrs and my daughter 21
    months.
    
    I only had to do this a few times before they would get dressed calmly.
    Now I don't have problems with an older child being fussy while
    dressing, but my son drags his feet forever. I have to keep popping
    into his room and telling him to put on the next article of clothing.
    However, he is improving.

    
    re: diapering a squirming kid.
    
    I simply put Lauren in her crib when she pulls this.  A few minutes
    later, I come back and ask her if she wants to cooperate.  She
    usually says yes but if she says no, I leave her there longer.
    
    Sometimes she does it to be funny, instead of bratty and it is
    harder to punish her for that but I have a limit with this sort
    of playfulness and if I reach it, she ends up in the crib.
    
    Karen

    Well, I finally settled on the "tune out the crying" method.  
    She's gotten now to the squirming and fighting, but "so far"
    I'm tougher than she.  Some distractions are actually working
    better now than when she was younger (when I first posted my
    note concerning it).  
    
    I haven't changed her on her table for quite some time now.
    Usually it's on my bed in her room.  When it's a particularly
    messy diaper, it's added incentive for me to keep her entertained.
    Any mess that's spread means me changing my bed before I can go
    to bed.  :-(
    
    						cj *->

    
    	I do like Karen.  When Andrew fusses and fights getting
    	dressed, I put him in his crib.  I go into my own room for
    	30 seconds or so, then come back and ask if he's ready to
    	get dressed.  Sometimes, even when he says yes, he starts
    	acting up again when I start changing him.  I just repeat
    	the crib routine until he's done fighting me.  When he gives
    	up, he's usually his normally cheerful self again.  One week,
    	I had to do this 3 different days.  That was over a month ago,
    	and I haven't had to do it since.
    
    	Still, I typically get him up before I'm fully ready, so if
    	I do need to put him back in his crib, when I leave his room
    	I can go put on my earrings or my shoes or whatever still needs	
    	to be done.
    
    	Karen
    

    
    My daughter just turned 5 months and has only rolled over twice and
    that was two days ago from her stomach to back.  She hates being on 
    her stomach, she sleeps on her back.  When we put her on her stomach
    she usually just lays her head down and cries til I move her.  I've
    tried putting her favorite toys in view and laying down with her, but
    she still does not want to be there.   She holds her head up really
    well and can sit with some assistance.  I worry that she's not doing
    what other 5 month olds are doing.  Any suggestions on how to get her
    to roll over?  She basically likes to be held most of the time, even
    when she is on her back, she will not stay there very long before she
    starts fussing.  I'm a new mom and appreciate all input.  Thank you.
    
    KC

    KC,  all kids develop at their own speed.  Mine is five months and has
    been rolling over unassisted for about a month or so, but he's a VERY
    active baby.  My first didn't really roll over much until about five
    months or so, and then by six months he was rolling where he wanted to
    go, but never did crawl.
    
    If she likes to sit (held or not), and will make stepping motions and
    support some of her weight (not much) when held in a standing position,
    I wouldn't worry about it.  Obviously, without knowing your baby
    personally, I'm not in a position to "judge", but I think if it were my
    child who didn't seem interested in rolling over, I might lay her on
    her stomach on a floor blanket, help her roll a few times, then put her
    back on the tummy and let her fuss and fume a bit.  If she really wants
    to go on to her back, she'll go!  If she's managed to roll a couple of
    times, she may either be having trouble remembering what she did to get
    there (where to put her arms, legs, etc., when to push and with
    what...), and needs some encouragement.
    
    YMMV, but that's what I did with my lazy boy 7 years ago, and with my
    active one 5-6 weeks ago.  If she still doesn't roll, don't sweat it
    too much.  Some babies just aren't interested in doing certain things;
    as I said, my 7 year old completely skipped crawling.  He went from
    creep and roll to cruise, to walk, never crawl.
    
    Regards,
    
    M.

    Angeline would never lay down on her stomach.  She spent a very
    brief while in the "roll from back to stomach" stage because she
    hated being on her stomach.
    
    It's funny this came up, because I was just thinking the other
    day I have only one picture of her even being on her stomach 
    holding her head up, and I had to work for that.  It's something
    she never did.
    
    She's shown no worse for the wear either.   She wouldn't even
    sit up until seven months old, so I think your baby is just doing
    fine.  
    
    Don't worry, enjoy whatever they can do.
    
    						cj *-> 

    Rolling from tummy to back...
    One thing we would do is put my son on his tummy, get sort of behind
    and on one side of him so he would turn his head to us (over his 
    shoulder twisting his body) and keep calling him.  This worked great, 
    but then he was only 2.5 wks old when he did it (hard to believe, but 
    I have it on video).  He did it about 5 times in a row.  No one could 
    believe it until they saw him do it.   Actually, my mom was the best at 
    getting him to roll from tummy to back.
    
    He just happened to be a muscularly strong kid from the start.
    His motor skills soared, but his verbal skills were much slower (you'd
    never know it now at 2 yrs, 9 mos!).  I think that all kids just
    have different rates of development in the motor and verbal skills
    department.  Like one of the previous noters said, it could be 
    simply a lack of interest to roll if she knows you'll eventually
    do it for her.  Make a big deal out of it when she does do it and
    it will become a game.  The more she "likes" to do it, the more
    her muscles will develop the skill.
    
    You really have to compare it to all the other things that she is 
    doing. If she seems OK in other areas of motor-development, she's
    probably fine.  If you are worried about her overall developmnt
    in other areas, it can't hurt to talk to the pedi about it.
    
    My son NEVER EVER crawled.  Now, all my friends' babies crawled at
    say 6-8 months.  Not mine.  He went from nothing to walking at 
    9.5 months.  I worried some that he didn't crawl at the time...
    I guess he just wasn't interested in being down on the floor on
    hands and knees.  
    
    They are all so different!  Try not to worry too much (easy to 
    say, difficult to do).  
    
    Enjoy all the other milestones!!  There are soooo many in that first
    year.

    Aaron is a year and a few weeks old.  He also HATED being on his
    stomach.  When he was on his back he would be almost rolled over and
    then straighten again and smile at us (he's a tease).  I really don't
    remember when he started rolling over regularly.  He was sitting almost 
    unassisted by 6 months.  He refused to try to crawl until he was 9
    months, he was on his hands and knees, I got down on the floor and
    called him...he crawled over like he's been doing it all his life.  Two
    weeks later he was taking steps and was walking extremely well by 11
    months.  Now he's running and dancing (well, imagine what Elvis's hip
    movement would have been like as a baby).
    
    Baby's are on their own schedule, they could care less about what the
    doctors or books say "should" happen by ~ months.  Oh, yes, the baby
    who hated being on stomach now sleeps that way a majority of the time!!
    
    sandy

    Being the mother of a child who "crawled" by lying on her back and
    doing a belly dancing sward dance move to get where she wanted to go
    until she was close to 10 months, I can say, don't worry.  kids will do
    what they want when they want to.  Atlehi had other skills she was very
    advanced in but she did not like being on her tummy at all, and would
    get very frustrated when I would try to get her to crawl like other
    peoples' kids (and my other two) did.  Maybe looking at the world
    upside down and backwards appealed to some sense of balance to her.
    
    meg

    
    Kids are most definitely different.  Chris didn't MOVE (I always called
    him my "slug baby") until he was 15mos old.  He didn't crawl until
    then, and seemed like it was pretty much okay with him.  He didn't walk
    till 17mos.  I *WISH* I could get him to sit still for a minute now!
    (-:  ...actually, he did used to ROLL around, to get from one place to
    another -- but that may have been cuz he was so ROUND! (-:
    
    Jason was pretty "normal" in those respects - though still didn't walk
    till 13mos.
    
    Jonathan .... well, he crawled on 2 hands, 1 knee and 1 foot.  Looked
    WEIRD, but it worked for him.  Now he's a little dare devil.  I think
    he walked around 12 mos (geez, I can't remember - what a terrible
    mother! (-:).
    
    My sister Carolyn never crawled - she "scooched" on her butt, and I did
    the weird Jonathan-crawl thing too (-:  
    
    All kids are different, and I haven't seen anything, that indicates it
    might matter at all, when they do what.  
    
    Soon enough you'll be wishing they'd just STAY where you put them!! 
    And if you don't believe me, you can take my 2-yr-old shopping for 10
    or 15 mins.  Try not to completely lose him, k?  (-:
    
    

    Patty, you are such a crack-up!!  *Shop* with a *15* month old???? 
    Are you NUTS?!  You're going to scare this poor woman out of her wits
    with a threat like that!  
    
    'Course, my oldest is 7 and still doesn't (a) stay where I put him or 
    (b) keep his hands to himself in stores...at 15 months, he was already
    a professional (and selective!!) bottom-gooser in the stores (preferred
    the bottoms to be attached to young blonde women!).  Nobody could 
    un-stock a shelf faster than Joe at 15 months, either, usually with the
    goal of climbing on to the shelf to hide!  It's a wonder I have any
    hair left, I tore enough of it out when he was a toddler!
    
    Regards,
    
    M.
    
    (I *still* can't believe I was crazy enough to start all over again 
    with a baby at this stage in my life!!)

    He my Brittany did the 2 hands, 1 knee and a foot  crawl.  I thought
    it was because of the hard wood floors, cause when she was on carpet
    she would crawl normal (sometimes).  That started at 9mo. She did
    the belly swim up till then.  It was hysterical.  
    
    Rose

    Aaron would do the 1 foot, 1 knee crawl.  I beleive it was because he
    wanted to get up and walk.  Before he learned to stand up from a
    crawling position he would use that type of crawl to get to a piece of
    furniture so he could pull himself up into a standing position and walk
    from there!
    
    sandy

    My 1st son did not crawl until 9 months.  He discovered how to roll to
    where he wanted to go at 7 months and was quite satisfied with that
    until 9 months.  He walked unassisted at 13 months.  At 5 years old,
    he is now in an advanced gymnastics class and is doing backflips and
    other death defying stunts.
    
    My 6 month old daughter does not like being on her stomach either.  She
    does love to have someone hold her sides as she 'walks' after her big
    brother.  I give her plenty of this form of exercise every evening and
    her legs are very strong so that she can hold onto a table and stand
    for up to 10 minutes.  She sits unassisted for up to 30 minutes and
    plays with her blocks and other toys.
    
    Don't push them too much especially if they complain...

    	
    My daughter Bridget is now 8 1/2 months, she still will not roll from
    her back to her belly.  She still hates being on her belly, if I put
    her on her belly she will roll right over to her back.  She sits very
    well by herself, and she flys in the walker.   She doesn't pull herself
    up at all.  It doesn't look like she will ever crawl.   She has a great
    pincer grip, she picks her cheerios up one at a time.  She doesn't
    really like laying on her back either.  She's happiest upright.  Either
    sitting,  or in the walker, the exersaucer, or her jolly jumper.   Any
    others who hate being on their belly, did they ever crawl or did they
    go right to walking ?
    
    Kathy
    

    Kate,
    
    Atlehi was the back moving queen.  She would hustle around on her back,
    by arching it to get to where ever she wanted to in the house.  She
    started crawling a few months later (10 mos) and started walking at 14
    months.  Some kids are just more comfortable on their backs for a long
    time.  Since Atlehi is the first kid I encouraged to back sleep, I
    almost wonder if it didn't have something ot do with the "break
    dancing" stage.
    
    meg

    Michelle *hated* being on her tummy.  When she was about 4 months and
    starting to roll over, she'd do a flip & scream.  The second she
    realized she wasn't on her back the world knew about it.  

    She did, however, start to crawl at about 7 1/2 months.  Only after she
    was independently mobile did she tolerate being on her stomach for any
    length of time.  She also didn't flip from stomach to back until after
    she had the crawling down pat.

    	marianne

    Aaron HATED being on his tummy.  He'd scream if it looked like I was
    thinking about putting him on it!  I don't think he would willingly be
    on his tummy until he was about 8 1/2 months.  He started crawling at
    9 months (on Halloween, in fact), though he'd already taken a few
    steps.  When he did that we put his walker up.  Aaron really didn't
    like to crawl very much, he wanted us to help him walk instead.
    
    He was walking some by Thanksgiving and had it down pat by Christmas.
    In fact I recognized a few ear infections around that time simply
    because his balance was off.
    
    I think one of the reasons Aaron walked so early was because from very
    early on he wanted to be in a standing position a lot.  I think it
    built his legs up pretty quickly.
    
    The funny thing is, now that Aaron is so good at walking he likes to
    crawl more.  He'll get down on his hands and knees saying "Puppy,
    Puppy" we're tying to teach him to say "woof, woof" instead!  And the
    little boy who hated to be on stomach sleeps on it half of the time.
    
    sandy
    

    Evan hated being on his belly.
    
    I had doubts that he would ever crawl. Sure enough, he crawled _after_
    he began quasi-walking at 10 months. By 11 months he walked like a
    champ and would drop to a crawl if he really needed to get somewhere
    _fast_. Now that he's got walking and crawling down, I occasionally
    find him sleeping on his front side -- not his belly exactly; more like
    hunched on his hands and knees.
    
      Annie

    
    	This string has me laughing, because when Andrew was an infant,
    	no matter what I tried, he would get himself onto his belly.
    	I even had one of those gizmos that helps prop the baby onto
    	his side, and Andrew would wind up on his belly (didn't he read
    	all those pediatric warnings about stomach sleeping ;-) ?)
    
    	His favorite comfort position is belly down, arms tucked under
    	his body.
    
    

    Don't feel alone, Katherine has slept on her tummy from the time she
    was 2 days old.  When we brought her home we spent 2 sleepless nights
    with her sleeping only when chested before we realized the difference
    was her sleeping position.  How, at 2 years, her favorite position is
    to sleep on her stomach with her hands and knees both tucked under her. 
    This is fine with me except for how she has 2 skinned sore knees! 
    Needless to say, last night was rough.  Every time I'd put her down so
    her knees didn't touch the sheet, she'd pull them under her and wake up
    screaming.
    
    Irene

    
    With my first son, I worried because I let my son be a belly sleeper. 
    ANYTHING to get him to sleep.  When #2 & #3 sons came along 3 & 2
    months premature and spent 3 months & 3 weeks respectfully in the NICU
    in Memorial in Worcester, and they had ALL the infants (if they were
    off major breathing or life sustaining machines) on tummies if
    they wouldn't sleep well, I stopped worrying.
    
    Beth who sleeps on her tummy as well as my three tummy sleeping sons

    Glad to hear that other people let their infants lie on their tummy.  I
    had read all the articles on SIDS plus my pediatrician reinforced in my
    mind the fact that infants sleeping on their sides or back 'significantly'
    reduced the possibility of SIDS.  So, I was determined to get my daughter
    to sleep on her side or back.  Well after a month of sleepless days and
    nights I decided to try her on her tummy and from that point on she has
    slept for 3 1/2 to 4 hours during the night (before this it was 1 - 1
    1/2 hours tops).  Every so often I will try again to put her on her
    back and she will only sleep for about 20 minutes.
    
    I borrowed one of those gadgets from a friend which is suppose to help
    keep an infant on their side.  I used that the other nite and my
    daughter was like a fish out of water.  She *hated* it.  As soon as I
    put her on her tummy she calmed right down and went to sleep.  My
    daughter is now 3 1/2 months old.  I figure I'll give this thing a few
    more tries before I give up, but she sure seems content on her tummy.
    
    In a related question, when my daughter is on her back (lying under one
    of those sesame street gyms or something) every so often she makes this 
    sound as if she is trying to catch her breath.  It's really scary, yet 
    she seems okay.  I plan to talk to my pedi about this at her 4 month
    check up, but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this in an
    infant.  My son never did this!?
    
    /Karen (Corey 2, Meghan 3 1/2 months)