Conference moira::naturism

    This is a good question.  I am not sure I have an answer.  I have
    always wanted to go topless at the beach. I hate the lines that my 
    top leaves but I do like the ocean so much that I put up with it.
    
      I do think it has to do with age as to when a girl has to put on a 
    top.  Like when she is around 8 or 9.  Most girls start to become aware
    of themselves and not being seen by anyone.  
    
      It sure would be a great place to live if no one had to wear cloths
    anywhere.....
    
      Have a good day,
    
        Cec

In Sydney topless bathing by both males and females is quite accepted at most 
of the major beaches. it wasn't always this way and there have been many battles
over the years between young ladies, and the "authorities".

Two quick stories about topless bathing.

My daughter, five at the time, was bathing topless, and playing with some other
children, she suddenly ran up to us and demanded her top, she had been mistaken
for a BOY.

A friends five year old daughter, on sighting a topless woman at the beach,
asked, "Daddy, whats the matter with that MAN?" (The're not a naturist family!).

Peter.

Re: .0

>    	1) I assume everyone at some point has met or seen a flat-chested
>    	adult female. If the objection to toplessness arises from seeing
>    	*developed* breasts, then why don't we see flat-chested woman go
>    	topless at non-CO beaches? (The assumption being that it would in
>    	fact be considered offensive or improper.)

While I've known a few women who were extremely small-chested, I haven't
known or seen any who didn't have noticeable breasts at all.  Perhaps I've
lived a sheltered life.  I'd think society's norms are mostly responsible
for why you don't see this much.

>    	2) At what point - be it an age or bra size - is it "acceptable"
>    	for girls to remain topless at non-CO beaches?

As with most things, there are always some people who will stretch the
limits of what is "acceptable".  Some naturist or lassiez-faire parents
may not make their daughters put on tops until they are clearly developed-
presumably to the disgust of their neighboring textile beachgoers.  Other
girls may start wearing tops themselves, feeling uncomfortable with their
now-obvious development.

My $.02,
Carl

    I don't think it's the size or the development of the female breast
    that's of issue here.  Being that this world does not walk around
    naked in public, going back to original sin if you believe in the
    bible, people cover their their private parts.  Usually very young,
    unclothed children do not offend adults or even other children.
     I would guess because the young are still quite innocent.  There
    are times and places to display private parts or even sexual acts.
     Usually, by the time a child reaches 5, he or she is aware of how
    society behaves in public and shame is something that may come about
    when the child is nude with other children of same age or older.
     I speak of my own experience.  I was 5 years old, my mom thought
    I was totally ridiculous 'cause I wanted to wear a top.  None of
    the other girls my age and older were topless.  My mom is German
    and the culture in Europe is much more open than in U.S.
    
    As for mature flat-chested woman exposing their "underdeveloped"
    breasts in public or on T.V. and that being O.K. due to the
    "unroundness" of their breasts does not quite make sense to me.
     The reason we don't see naked flat-chested women on T.V., at least in
    U.S., is that female breasts are private
    parts, regardless of size and they should not be exposed.  Besides,
    flat or small breasts do have nipples not just tiny round spots
    as in young girls and boys.
    
    I'm not saying that nudity is or wrong or immoral.  I think we may
    be too inhibited but in no way are "flat"chested women less naked
    than full rounded breasted women.

	I don't think there is any reason to use size as a factor. Each female 
body has the same parts(normal person), its just the size that is different. I
don't think its the idea of size that some people object to. Its the general
idea that any female breast must be covered in public. As well as male and 
female "sex organs". Its simply that they are used to this style. In most cases
they were raised on this concept. 

	MMy daughter wouldn't go topless on the beach right now. I don't think I
have instilled this in her, but she set this "dress code" herself. She doesn't
think its wrong for other people but just not right for her at this time. 

I may not be correct here but I think that the only way for toplessness (and 
nudity) to gain acceptance is for it to be practiced where it can be and even to
push the style in places where it isn't currently accepted. I mean on beaches
generally and I don't mean that anyone should try to purposely offend anyone.
	WWhen I see women laying on their stomachs at the beach with their tops
unfastened, I wonder if they know that they are actually topless.

    re:.5
    
    Of course they know they are topless, that's why they're laying
    on their stomachs.  It may be that by them being topless but by hiding
    their breasts, it leaves one to their imagination.

    Yes, It leaves a lot to the imagination I suppose, like I wonder if
    we threw a bucket of water on her she'd get up real quick and forget 
    that her top was unfastened?  Or, generally just staring in her
    direction, wondering what her breasts look like from the front, instead
    of just what can be seen from the side !
    
    Of course, don't you think that's a little overdoing it?  I think that
    the girls lying on their stomachs with their tops untied, aren't
    necessarily looking for that kind of attention (some maybe), but I tend
    to think that even "clothed" women do their damndest to try to get as
    much of an overall tan as permitted on a public beach.
    
    It's so stupid though, isn't it!  Yes, I agree, women's breasts are
    considered to be a sexual organ by both genders, but why is that way?
    I don't think God had that purpose in mind when he created a woman,
    breasts were there to provide milk to their children, not to be looked
    upon as sexual toys.
    
    And why should we have to hide our sexual organs anyways ??????? What's
    so wrong with what is so NATURAL????  I once accidentally stumbled
    across a couple making love in one of our national parks.  I'm sure
    they hadn't intended on anyone seeing them, but yet,... they *were* in
    a public place.  I didn't find it disgusting or revolting, in fact, I
    wanted to watch for a while, no, not because I'm a voyeur, but because
    I thought it was so beautiful.
    
    Sorry, I know that I'm getting slightly off topic, but some of the
    responses in here were starting to tick me off!

    I suppose this is off the topic, but then, I think the topic is 
    silly :-) !
    
    Thought for the day: WHY do men have nipples?
    
    Think about it. 
    
    

    ..and why do some people have more than 2 nipples??

    Re: .9  "more than 2 nipples?"
    
    Been watching old James Bond movies again? :-)
    
    

Just a side note....until had the mastectomies I had three nipples.  Now I
only have one.

Judy

    Reply to .10, Christie,
    
    Many humans have more than two nipples. I've read that something like 1
    in 100 (1 in a 1000??) humans are born with a tail (which the doctor
    removes at birth).
    
    I've personally seen a man with three nipples. The extra ones occur
    along the milk line.

    
    .4> naked in public, going back to original sin if you believe in the
    .4> bible, people cover their their private parts.  Usually very young,
    
       Interestingly enough, fig leaves were never used to cover Eve's
    breasts. For both Adam and Eve the covered parts are below the
    waistline. (Tell that to the Moral Majority!)
    
       Well, at least in most artistic depictions of life in the
    Garden of Eden, that is. Having never read it personally, I don't
    know how things are described in the Bible.
    
    
    Frank
    

    I know that some people have more than 2 nipples, but the one that
    came to mind was a character from a James Bond movie.  I think
    his name was Mr. Scaramonga??
    
    Linda
    

    
    It seems to me in our culture that puberty=secrecy, especially for the
    females (ie. breasts, genitals, and pubic hair on legs and underarms).
    Males are only constrained to cover their genitals.
    
    This is warped.
    
    Karl