| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 35.1 | Why ban singles? | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Fri Mar 18 1988 09:19 | 33 |
| <<< Note moved by moderator >>>
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Note 12.6 Naturist Resorts/Clubs 6 of 9
MPGS::NEEDLEMAN "No, my first name AIN'T baby...." 25 lines 17-MAR-1988 11:34
-< Why ban singles? >-
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I am new to this conference and am very much interesting in getting
involved in naturism (however tough it may be here in New England
to find an area to go to - I have only been to one such area at
the end of the public beach in Wells, Maine). I have two questions
about resorts/clubs/etc:
1. Why do most of these places seem to frown on single
people using their facilities? It's seems sort of a
cruel punishment for people who are interested or
involved in naturism.
2. What is the general feeling about gay/lesbian couples
attending these places? I would tend to believe that
"family" environments might not allow gays into their
resorts BECAUSE it is a family environment.
Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks!
Marc
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| 35.2 | Valley View's different | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Fri Mar 18 1988 09:21 | 26 |
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Note 12.7 Naturist Resorts/Clubs 7 of 9
GENRAL::KILGORE "COME ON SPRING!" 18 lines 17-MAR-1988 11:44
-< Valley View's different >-
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Re: .6
Here in Colorado at the resort we are members at (Valley View),
just because someone is single or gay doesn't mean they can't be
members. I have a couple "single" friends that are members and
are welcome any time. Two are males and the other is a female.
We have met the most interesting and fun to be with gay couples
there also, both men and women. They are as welcome there as we
are. No discrimination regarding sex, color, sexual preference,
etc. Which should be the whole world works! Right?
Come to Colorado and check out Valley View. It is a great place
to relax, enjoy the sun and hot springs. Non-members can only attend
during the week without being escorted by a member. Weekends, non-
members must be accompanied by a member.
Judy
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| 35.3 | One example of why no singles | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Fri Mar 18 1988 09:22 | 24 |
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Note 12.8 Naturist Resorts/Clubs 8 of 9
RETORT::GOODRICH "Taking a long vacation" 16 lines 17-MAR-1988 18:38
-< One example of why no singles >-
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re .6
I can't speak for all places but Dyer Woods (RI) limits male
singles simply because of past experiences. There have been
problems with groups of males, such problems have never occurred
with groups of females. Singles are not excluded but the
bylaws limit the number at one time. Groups of males (>1)
are always excluded. Well established members or day users
that find themselves without a wife or girlfriend are generally
allowed in with no difficulty.
Marital status or sexual preference is not considered. The
rules (I didn't make them) simply grew out of a strong desire
to keep the place family oriented and experience.
- gerry
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| 35.4 | Nudists may discriminate; naturists usually don't | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Mon Mar 21 1988 21:25 | 21 |
| _Clothed_with_the_Sun_ contains a listing of "Participating Clubs",
with the note:
The Naturist Society does not recognize Groups or Clubs which
... practice a policy of exclusion based on race, religion,
sexual preference or gender.
It is acknowledged that single male visitors may be subject
to a quota if Club deems this unavoidable. ...
(Incidentally, Solair (note 12.10) is one of these participating
clubs.)
In New England, you ought to look into NENA (note 24). NENA
activities are open to all members, with no discrimination against
singles. During the winter, they have monthly indoor clothing-
optional swims in the Boston area. (They had swims scheduled
through March this year, and were extending the schedule through
May.)
-Neil
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| 35.5 | While we're pn the subject of gays/lesbians... | MPGS::NEEDLEMAN | No, my first name AIN'T baby.... | Fri Mar 25 1988 12:10 | 31 |
|
Perhaps some of you noters could answer a question. I know that
there are some places that do discriminate against gays/lesbians
for reasons that "they're only perverts out to gape at our naked
bodies in the hopes of getting some form of sexual gratification
from it." There are (however) those of us in the gay community
who are truly interested in following the "ways" and lifestyles
of the nudists/naturists, and are interested in getting involved,
joining the associations and attending the events, clubs, resorts
and beaches.
For those of you who do belong to groups/clubs/resorts, visit
clothing-optional/nude beaches, would you:
1. Feel uncomfortable (or protest against) gays/lesbians
being members/visitors to these places/events?
2. Feel uncomfortable (or protest against) gay/lesbian couples
being members/visitors to these places/events?
3. Associate with gay/lesbians at these places/events?
4. Prefer that gays/lesbians who were interested in naturism/nudism
have a place of their own that they could go so that straights
and families could "go about their business" feeling less
"uncomfortable?"
Guess I'm just curious....
Marc @ SHR
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| 35.6 | It isn't gays that are the problem! | RETORT::GOODRICH | Taking a long vacation | Fri Mar 25 1988 15:55 | 11 |
| re .5
I have had a single male friend as a weekend guest of my
family at our camp. The fact thet he is gay (or that I am
not) had no bearing on the issue.
The campground rules restricting single males have grown
out of problems with straight perverts, most often involving
young girls.
- gerry
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| 35.7 | Why should I care? | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Fri Mar 25 1988 16:54 | 22 |
| Getting rid of one irrational prejudice doesn't automatically clear
out the rest. People without clothes on are still people. I've read
recently about a nudist camp in Florida that won't accept blacks!
But the biggest taboo in naturism and nudism is against anything
even vaguely suggestive of sex. The closest thing to explicit sex
that I've ever seen at a nudist camp or nude beach is people holding
hands. So long as people follow that basic rule, who's even going
to know what their sexual preference is? and why should they care?
Sure, gays who came to a nude beach "looking for action" would be
unwelcome. But so would anyone else!
All that said, there apparently are nude-use areas that have largely
gay use (for example, a portion of the Rock River site in southern
Vermont). Why, I don't know.
Incidentally, I know that there are gay/lesbian special interest
groups within the naturist movement; I'll try to dig up more
information for you.
-Neil
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| 35.8 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Fri Mar 25 1988 20:41 | 10 |
|
I treat all people as just that, people. I respect their right to
their sexual preference as long as they grant me the same.
I.E. I respect their right to be gay and they respect my right to
be straight = no problems whatsoever.
As has been said before naturism has nothing to do with sex and
therefore choice of partner shouldent make a difference.
-j
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| 35.9 | Info on Gay and Lesbian Naturists SIG | MOIRA::FAIMAN | Ontology Recapitulates Philology | Sat Mar 26 1988 09:02 | 25 |
| The latest issue of _The_Event_ (Winter 1987) has an article
"1987 Gathering of Gay Male Naturists". A few quotes:
The largest gathering ever of gay male naturists was held
in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania during the weekend
of July 16-19, 1987. One hundred fifty gay men from throughout
the country attended this National Gathering and the Third
NationalGathering of Gay and Lesbian Naturists (a Special
Interest Group of The Naturist Society).
...
Representatives from more than half the states and Canada, who
are members of 15 of the 31 organized gay male naturist clubs
throughout the country, attended. ...
...
For more information about Gay and Lesbian Naturists, write to
G.L.N., PO Box 7546, Atlanta, GA 30357. For more information
about Males au Naturel [the New York club that hosted the
event], write to M.A.N., Box 133, 496A Hudson Street,New York,
NY 10014. Please include a self-addressed stamped envelope.
-Neil
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| 35.10 | Blind prejudice is blind prejudice | SSDEVO::YOUNGER | Enjoy your life. If you don't no one else will | Tue Mar 29 1988 23:21 | 12 |
| I kind of view that a blanket refusal to allow gay or lesbian naturists
similar to a group that refuses to allow blacks - pure prejudice.
If singles (of any race or sexual preference) are trying to turn
it into a place to pick people up, and are harassing those that
are not interested in their advances, that could make them unwelcome.
If people are holding hands with their SO, it would become obvious
whether they are gay or straight, so it *can* be determined in an
ordinary naturist setting. It shouldn't be held against them though.
Elizabeth
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| 35.11 | ....Just like MASTERCARD..... | MPGS::NEEDLEMAN | No, my first name AIN'T baby.... | Thu Mar 31 1988 16:59 | 17 |
|
Hi!
Just wanted to drop a note and say "THANKS!" for all the great
replies and helpful information you've provided me with here.
Your "2 cents worth" has been honest and sincere, and I look
forward to the warmer months when I'm able to "master the
possibilities!"
Once again, thanks, and I look forward to participating in
further discussions.
Marc Needleman
SHR - Northeast Technology Centre
Shrewsbury, MA
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| 35.12 | makes no difference to me | GENRAL::KILGORE | COME ON SPRING! | Fri Apr 01 1988 00:39 | 72 |
|
RE: .5
Marc, Some answers/opinions to your questions...
1. Feel uncomfortable (or protest against) gays/lesbians
being members/visitors to these places/events?
No, I don't feel that way. I was apprehensive at
1st thinking they were going to try and put the
moves on me, but when they didn't and acted like
decent people, the sexual preference didn't bother
me anymore. I feel comfortable around gays/lesbians.
I worked with a few, I am close friends with a couple
gays, and associate with them where we go for solitude
and clothes-optional fun.
2. Feel uncomfortable (or protest against) gay/lesbian couples
being members/visitors to these places/events?
No to this question too. If people are discrete, no
matter what their sexual preference, they should be
allowed to be members or visitors.
3. Associate with gay/lesbians at these places/events?
We have met both gays and lesbians at Valley View and
had good conversation and fun together. Why should it
matter whether someone loves another of the same sex?
That is not my preference and as long as the gays/lesbians
respect my choice, I respect theirs.
4. Prefer that gays/lesbians who were interested in naturism/nudism
have a place of their own that they could go so that straights
and families could "go about their business" feeling less
"uncomfortable?"
If everyone 'minds their manners' and doesn't openly have
sex in front of god and everybody...this goes for both
gays and hets...everyone should be able to enjoy themselves
no matter who is in the crowd.
I have two other things I want to add. My parents lived next to a
gay couple who happened to be potters (made pottery). My mom didn't
realize these guys were gay until she was visiting with them one
day and they were showing her some of their work. They made a tour
of the complete house. Afterwards Mom got to thinking..."hum, only
one bed in the entire house. What?!? You mean, nah, couldn't be.
They are such nice boys!" After a couple weeks it finally sunk in
and she said it didn't bother her since she liked them before she
found (figured) it out and THEY hadn't changed any.
We have a friend who lives in Quincy, MA, who told us in a letter
he was going to share with us a fact we were not aware of and if
we didn't want to associate with him anymore, he would understand.
He proceeded to tell us he was gay. When we wrote back to him to
let him know we still wanted to continue our relationship and that
his being gay had no bearing on our friendship, we told him something
he didn'tknow about us...we were naturists and were writing to him
while lying naked next to a pool with about 20 other naked people
laying around too!
Our friendship continues to blossom, he has corresponded since our
letter to him, so there is a tasit (sp?) agreement that we accept
each other for the human beings that we are, no matter what our sexual
preference or if we like to sunbath in the nude. I wish other people
would be as open and honest with each other. The world would be a
much better place.
Judy
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| 35.13 | | HAMPS::PHILPOTT_I | Col. Philpott is back in action... | Tue Apr 11 1989 07:47 | 22 |
|
This topic may be old, but...
When last I was actively involved with a naturist club, my companion
of the time was in fact a lesbian (though I am neither gay nor 'bi'
- it was quite simply a platonic relationship with somebody I had
known since early childhood), though I doubt if any of the members
knew that. After about 6 years of membership, and regularly attending
club events together the perhaps inevitable occurred and we amicably
seperated. About a month later I went to a club meeting alone and
one of the other members asked where Astrid was. "Oh!" I said, "we've
had a bit of a fight"... thinking nothing of it. Two days later
I got a letter from the club secretary telling me that my membership
was suspended, and I was not welcome at club events until I "normalised
my life" and "resumed a normal relationship".
I haven't attended a naturist club since, though only recently have
I become interested in the movement again. I notice looking at ads
for British clubs that the "no single or unaccompanied males need
apply" rule is still prevalent here.
/. Ian .\
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| 35.14 | nothings changed in 22 years! | TRUCKS::JAMES_I | | Wed Nov 08 1989 10:58 | 23 |
| I first joined a club, as a single male, in 1967. It was one of the few clubs
around at that time to allow male singles in at all, and this was subject to a
quota.
I discussed this issue with the founding fathers of the club and their
explanation was that their wives, who were reluctant to be naturists in the
first instance, had been upset by single male voyeurs. A no singles rule had
been introduced, and subsequently replaced with a quota. I had been on
probation for the first half-dozen or so visits until I was invited to join.
As far as I know, most UK clubs which allow single males to join have some
kind of rule saying "thou shalt not offend others" which would allow for
voyeurs to be ejected.
Although I know several gay men, through my interests in meditation and
politics, I have never had any social encounters with any in a naturist
setting. Our local beach is frequented by gays, but they tend to use the
further end of the beach. We don't bother to hike that far along, (Oliver is
only two years old) but there has never been any trouble of any kind so far as
I know, and my wife (a bit old fashioned in her prejudices) doesn't object to
their presence. She knows they are there ("look at those two, they're pooftas
aren't they?" etc.) but as long as family units are in the majority she seems
to be happy.
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