Conference moira::naturism

    A private hot spring resort we go to is Valley View Hot Springs
    in Colorado.  (sorry, I don't know of any in Mass or Conn)
    
    This is a privately owned, clothes optional, natural hot springs,
    mamberships welcome (must be a member to visit during a weekend
    unless accompanied by a member) and very rustic.  There are 6 rock 
    bottomed pools for soaking and a swimming pool, sauna and coed 
    restroom.  Water temp is around body temp, maybe slightly higher
    depending on the time of year.  They also have rustic cabins or
    a dormitory type building (available 1st come, 1st served) to stay 
    in if you don't camp or stay in your vehicle.
          
    We've been members for 3 years.  Enjoy it alot!  If you would like
    further information, I can send you a brochure about it.  We happen
    to be going there this weekend and will pick up a few extra to give
    to folks who want one.
    
    Judy

    Judy's right Valley View is great well worth going there for a week
    or so.  Here in Az. there are two well known spots and many not
    well known.  One spot is by Tucson another by strawberry if you
    would like futher information mail me a request.

    Dyer Woods is a fairly small member-operated campground in
    north western RI. It is on 200 acres, has large, clean swimming
    pond, fishing pond, sauna, hot tub, large new (87) club house,
    volley ball, and lots of trails. It has about 10 transient
    sites, 5 rental units and 50 permanent sites of which about
    42 are currently occupied.
    
    It is a FAMILY and couples campground, singles are restricted
    (call ahead and have some references). The atmosphere is very
    pleasant, radios are restricted and noisy activities are
    confined to the recreation areas.  The folks are very friendly
    and easy to meet.
    
    I and my family have been members for 5-6 years and highly
    recommend it.
    
    -gerry 

    Has anyone ever visited Paradise Lakes in Florida?
    I'm considering a trip down south sometime, and I'd like
    to see what it's like there...
    
    B.
    

	I am new to this conference and am very much interesting in getting
	involved in naturism (however tough it may be here in New England 
	to find an area to go to - I have only been to one such area at 
	the end of the public beach in Wells, Maine). I have two questions
	about resorts/clubs/etc:

		1. Why do most of these places seem to frown on single
		   people using their facilities? It's seems sort of a
		   cruel punishment for people who are interested or
	    	   involved in naturism.

		2. What is the general feeling about gay/lesbian couples
		   attending these places? I would tend to believe that
		   "family" environments might not allow gays into their
		   resorts BECAUSE it is a family environment. 

	Any help would be appreciated,

	Thanks!

	Marc

    Re: .6
    
    Here in Colorado at the resort we are members at (Valley View),
    just because someone is single or gay doesn't mean they can't be
    members.  I have a couple "single" friends that are members and
    are welcome any time.  Two are males and the other is a female.
    
    We have met the most interesting and fun to be with gay couples 
    there also, both men and women.  They are as welcome there as we 
    are.  No discrimination regarding sex, color, sexual preference, 
    etc.  Which should be the whole world works!  Right?
    
    Come to Colorado and check out Valley View.  It is a great place
    to relax, enjoy the sun and hot springs.  Non-members can only attend
    during the week without being escorted by a member.  Weekends, non-
    members must be accompanied by a member.
    
    Judy

    re .6
    
    I can't  speak for all places but Dyer Woods (RI) limits male
    singles simply because of past experiences. There have been
    problems with groups of males, such problems have never occurred
    with groups of females. Singles are not excluded but the
    bylaws limit the number at one time. Groups of males (>1)
    are always excluded. Well established members or day users
    that find themselves without a wife or girlfriend are generally
    allowed in with no difficulty.
    
    Marital status or sexual preference is not considered. The
    rules (I didn't make them) simply grew out of a strong desire
    to keep the place family oriented and experience.
    
    - gerry

    I've created a new topic (35) for the discussion of discrimination
    against singles in nudist clubs and copied the last three notes to
    it.  Let's keep this topic dedicated to reviews of resorts and
    clubs. 
    
    	-Neil (moderator)

    In Connecticut, just over the border from Sturbridge and Southbridge
    (exit 9 off the Pike), there is the Solair Recreation League.
    
    Solair is a private campground that is quite out of the way but
    near the rest of civilization.  It is in a wooded area with trails
    for walking through nature.
    
    The grounds include a pond for swimming, a sandy beach area for
    sunbathing, indoor and outdoor showers at various locations around
    the campground.  There is a new recreation building with new showers,
    toilets, and a whirlpool/hot tub.
    
    The main season is from Memorial Day to Labor Day; during that time
    they are open every day.  Before that time or after it, they are
    open on weekends until it gets too cold.  During the main season
    there is a kitchen/diner that serves breakfast and lunch on the
    weekend.
    
    There are two tennis courts and (naturally) a volleyball court.
    There are numerous picnic tables if you bring your own lunch.
    Boats are not allowed unless you have your own insurance for it.
    It is possible to rent (like motels) for extended visits.
    
    While this is primarily a family-oriented campground, they welcome
    singles.  The place is clothing optional, except on the beach and
    while swimming when you must be nude.
    
    Newcomers are allowed up to four visits, after which they must become
    members.  During the four visits, they are "interviewed" or screened
    by people on the membership committee who recommend prospects for
    membership.  There are two kinds of membership: Full and Associate.
    Full members get to vote, get keycards to open the front gate, and are
    allowed to buy camp sites (for building homes). Associate members
    have to pay a ground fee every time they go there but it doesn't
    cost as much for the yearly fee.  I believe that members of the
    Naturists or the ASA are not restricted to the 4-visit limit; their
    ground fees are lower than non-members but higher than Associate
    members.
    
    The site is about 75 minutes from Boston, quite a haul for sunbathing.
    If you want to know more, you can write them at:
    
    	Solair Recreation League
    	P.O.Box 187
    	Southbridge, MA 01550
    	(203) 928-9174
    
    

    RE: .11 - Ben,  I've been to Glen Ellen, which is about an hour
    from downtown LA, I believe southwest of the City.  It is in the
    desert, has both indoor and outdoor pools (no lake), and an outdoor
    hottub.  It is quite nice, and the people are reasonably friendly.
    At the time (4 years ago) it was only non-ASA single men were not
    admitted.
    
    There are some interesting trails through the desert and over low
    mountains where you may hike in the nude.  It has a snack bar, but
    I am not sure about hotel rooms.  It is listed in the ASA guide
    book.  I'd be glad to give you more particulars, if you like.
    
    Also near LA is a nude beach (which is listed in the _Guide to Nude
    Beaches ..._).  It is near Rancho Palos Verdes, and is called
    Portuguese Fisherman's Beach, or something similar.  It is not the
    nicest beach in CA, but is adequate.  You will note that the south
    end of the beach (closest to the offstreet parking) is exclusively
    gays, while the north end is for heteros, families, etc.
    
    ENJOY!  I'm sure you'll love the LA Area!
    
    Jack

    RE: .12 (Me!)
    "Glen Ellen" should be "Glen Eden."
    
    "Portuguese Fisherman's Beach" S/B "Palos Verde - Smuggler's Cove,"
    as per Baxandall's "Nude Beaches and Recreation."
    
    It's terrible to get old and lose your memory!  ;-}

    RE: .10  Solair in Connecticut
    
    I just called Solair; the daily grounds fees for Naturist members
    is $15.  Non-affiliated visitors are charged $20.
    
    And yes, it's open for the season.
    
    BTW

    Well, we visited Sandy Terraces this weekend.  I wasn't terribly
    impressed, but it was nice enough.

    It's an ASA park, located on Cape Cod, about 10 miles west of Hyannis.
    According to the ASA Nudist Park Guide, the total park size is 10
    acres; it certainly didn't seem like much more than that.  (Compare
    Cedar Waters in New Hampshire, which has 350 or 400 acres.) 

    Basically, this is a simple nudist campground.  There a couple of dozen
    camp sites.  Most have basic attachments (water and electricity); many
    (probably leased for the season by club members) appear to have camping
    trailers parked there for the summer.  There is a rudimentary "club
    house" (large room, sofa, chairs, ping-pong table, refrigerator, etc.),
    a volleyball court, rest rooms, and a couple of outdoor (but clean)
    showers.

    There is a small but pleasant beach, with an unusual arrangement.  The
    camp is on a public lake, with plenty of non-nudist users, so there is
    a high fence around the beach; but there is gap in the fence that you
    can swim through, since it's pretty hard for anyone to tell what a
    swimmer in the water is or isn't wearing.  If you want to swim out and
    climb up on their raft, then you have to wear a swim suit.

    Of course, the people were friendly, but I've never been at a nudist
    camp where the people weren't friendly.

    Two negatives:  (1)  No fireplaces and no open fires allowed.  It may
    seem like a small thing, but our daughter had her heart set on toasted
    marshmallows!  (We ended up toasting them over a borrowed charcoal
    grill.)  (2)  There weren't any other children there; and the only
    provision for children was one very old and rusty swing set.  That
    will probably keep us from visiting this camp again.

    The price was certainly reasonable:  $17 for our family covered the
    night's camping and ground fees for the two days.  (Actually, I think
    it covers 24 hours + camping -- if you wanted to spend two full days
    and one night, it would be $27.)

    Summary:  reasonable price, nice conditions; nothing special, no big
    gripes.  If you're visiting Cape Cod, and you like to stay at nudist
    camps when you travel, you might give them a call.

	-Neil

    A few minor changes (including the correct phone number) from my
    original posting, .3, which I have deleted... 
    
    Cedar Waters Village is a non-ASA nudist park just west of Durham, NH
    (10-15 miles west of Portsmouth).  Some quotes from their flier: 
    
    	============================================================
    
        ... New England's largest nudist park.  Founded in 1950 it is
        composed of a 20+ acre private lake completely surrounded by over
        400 acres of heavily wooded land with secluded roads and paths. 
        
        ...
        
        Families and married couples may visit with us for the day,
        weekend, or join us for the year by obtaining our full membership.
        Unmarried couples for the day only, no singles or married singles
        permitted. 
        
        ...
        
        We have always tried to furnish our members with a standard that
        everyone can afford and enjoy.  We operate on sound business and
        Christian principles. 
        
        *NO* alcoholic beverages allowed in park.
        
        For reservations or more information, please call (603)679-8658
        office.
    
    	============================================================
    
    Facilities are minimal:  two sunning lawns and small beaches, with
    rafts in the lake; shuffleboard, volleyball, and a nice sauna; a
    small playground area; a small restaurant (weekends during the day
    only) and a grill / snack bar by the beach.  
    
    The lake is bigger than some camps I've been in, but relatively
    shallow, so it gets pretty warm by mid-summer -- good swimming, and a
    lot of people do sailing or windsurfing.  There are apparently hiking
    trails around the lake. 
    
    The atmosphere is definitely friendly and family oriented, with many
    families with children.
    
    There are several small cabins (big enough for a family, with cooking
    facilities) which can be rented overnight or longer (make reservations
    well in advance), as well as a very small camping area. 
    
    Quite a few people live here; there are a good many houses, cottages,
    and mobil homes, and there appears to be new construction going on. 
    
    Admission is $16/family/day.  There are also season rates -- a couple
    of years ago they were $300 the entire summer, or $400 with the rental
    of a lot where you could leave a trailer -- they might be higher this
    year.  Cabin rental used to be $19/night -- I don't know what it is
    now. 
    
    The park is located in Nottingham off Rte 125, a few miles south of
    US 4.  Look for a large sign on the west side of 125, immediately
    north of an auto raceway.  Drive west a couple of miles, turn
    right at a crossroad, and go another 1/2 mile or so to the park
    entrance.
    
    	-Neil

    Anyone know of clubs/resorts or just co locales in Northern Illinois?
    

        
    If you are looking for another place to go and can make it to
    Rhode Island anyway, consider Dyer Woods in Foster RI. It is a
    200 acre (only 25 used for camping) campground with about 50
    sites. It has a large, clean swimming pond, large sunning area,
    volley ball, sauna, hot tub...

    The campers are almost all seasonal but it has good size day
    crowd on weekends and a good supply of friendly folks. It is not
    crowded.

    The only drawback is that it costs $17 (if I remember, I'm a
    full time member). Day memberships are  available.

    If you are interested, send me a note, I'll gladly show you
    around. BTW, it is in north-west RI, off of route 6 near Conn.

    - gerry

    	Gerry what would the best route to take to Dyer Woods from the Lowell,
    MA area be. I'm not that familar with Rhode Island to know if this
    would end up being as far to drive as to Moonstone. What's the weather
    like there, i.e., as windy as Moonstone seems to be?
        
    	After looking at the map last night and rereading the entries
    in base note 12 about Solair, Cedar Waters, and Dyer Woods we almost
    came to the conclusion to go to Solair. It's a fair distance, but
    it is a very fast drive based on mainly interstates from where we
    are to at least exit 9 off the Mass. Pike. The entries about Solair
    seem to imply a large nice area for sunning (our main interest)
    with some facilities available. Any thoughts as to which of the
    three facilities above might be better to go to????
    
    	(Neil, if this reply should be moved someplace else feel free
    to do so.)
    
    	Dave....

        
    Dyer Woods should be about 30 min closer than Moonstone, about
    even (maybe closer) with Solair. I would take 495 south, 295
    west to 395 south (it use to be 52). In Conn, take US 6 east,
    just a few miles. There are several choices as to which back
    roads to take, it is on Johnston Rd, easiest found by following
    the signs to the Foster Country club. If anyone decides to give
    it a try, I'll post details.

    I have been to Solair and Dyer Woods, I prefer Dyer Woods
    because of the less crowded atmosphere. Both are wooded but have
    nice sunning areas. Solair is BIG, Dyer Woods is modest but has
    plenty of folks for volley ball ect.

    let me know if I can help - gerry

    	Judy we just received a book listing parks around the US and it
    listed one near Littelton, CO called Mountain Aire Ranch. Have you
    ever been there or know anything about it?
    
        We eventually may be in the Colorado Springs area and were curious
    what was out that way. I know you've mentioned Valley View, but
    I've gotten the impression that it is a fair distance from Colorado
    Springs. The information we have on Mountain Aire indicates that
    it should be only about an hour or so from the Springs.

                     
    	Dave....

REP:	-< Mountain Aire in Littleton, CO???? >-

Dave,

We have not been to Mountain Aire but Darrell Bigelow plans on visiting it 
next weekend.  Want to give us a report after you return, Darrell?

Judy

    
    RE: Mountian Aire
    
    Sure thing.  I'll post a note when I return.
    
    Darrell
    

    	My S/O and I are going to Jamaica this September for our honeymoon.
    The resort we are staying at is called "Couples". It purports to
    say that it has a private nude sunning island just offshore from
    the main resort beach. Has anybody ever been there, or know anything
    about it????
    
    	In addition has anybody used Caribbean Travel Natuarally as
    a travel agent? I found out about this company AFTER we booked Couples.
    Apparantly they are assocciated with Paradise Lakes in Florida.
    According to their information they deal exclusively with Naturists
    vacations i.e., resorts (such as Club Orient) and Naturists Wind
    Jammer cruises.
    
    		Dave....

    I haven't ever been to Couples, but I was at Hedonism II, which is run
    by the same people, and some people there told me about Couples.
    
    Apparantly, the nude sunbathing spot at Couples is an island that you
    need to swim to. This was regarded as a hassle; at Hedonism II, the
    nude beach is half of the full beach area, and is better integrated
    with the rest of the resort. For instance, there is a nude beach bar,
    so you don't have to go far to get a drink...
    
    On the other hand, Couples was favored over Hedonism II for the food.
    The food at Hedonism II was good - the people that had been to Couples
    referred to the food there as "excellent and elegant".
    
    When my SO and I went to Hedonism II, we did have one significant
    problem. The resort was overbooked by 40 people - we got sent to
    another hotel down the road, and got shuttled back and forth. They
    refunded most of our money, so we got a practically free vacation, but
    it wasn't nearly as hassle-free as I had hoped. They told me that their
    contracts with certain travel agents allows them to do this - you
    should find out if you are assured of a room or not, and not get
    surprised the way we did!
    
    Jamaica is a great place. My SO and I went there in January, and had a
    fantastic time (despite being overbooked). We'll go to Hedonism II
    again...
    
    Enjoy yourself!
    
    Kevin

    We went to Couples for our honeymoon also.  The nude island is about
    100 yards offshore from the resort.  It is accessible by small shuttle
    boats that can be summoned to the island by buzzer.  The island
    is an outgrowth of rocks that is about 30' by 100'.  It is paved
    over with boardwalks and concrete and has thatched, open cabanas with
    Pauley's Island hammocks strung across.  A cooler is kept filled
    with soda and Red Stripe beer.  The landing area for the boats is
    also a mini beach.  Not many people go out (when we were there anyhow) 
    there as Couples is not really a nude resort.  
    
    I went to Hedonism around '83 or '84.  At that time, it was definitly
    a singles (swingles) resort.  Don't know if this has changed.  �
    the beach area is nude, the other � is called the Prude Beach. 
    Most people were on the prude beach side cause thats where the girls
    were.  
    
    If you want to go to an all-inclusive resort, these are fine.  Jamaican
    weather isn't always sunny, however.  I remember lots of gray days
    and come-and-go showers.
    
    For the money, I'd go back to St. Martin and stay in the Cupecoy
    Beach area.  Almost all the beaches on St. Martin are clothing optional
    but most beachgoers are suited.  We found this to be true even at
    Club Orient.  The far end of Cupecoy,however, is totally nude. 
    And its a stunningly beautiful, natural beach without signs, vendors,
    parking lots or other forms of human commerce.  Aloe grows wild
    off the path to the beach.  Since it isn't easy to find, few
    vacationers go there, so its not crowded.  Most of the people who
    go there are the long-term vacationers (French) and/or young Europeans
    taking a year or two off from life.  The Cupecoy sunsets are gorgeous.
    Everything on the beach turns gold and a tanned body is no exception.
    The St. Martin weather is perfect everyday.
                                                 
    Have Fun!

    The following are my directions to Solair from Boston.  I've been
    told that there are better or quicker solutions.  These are basically
    the ones from the Solair borchure, with a bit more detail.
    
    Solair is a private campground so this might be a better place
    for first-timers to try nuding.  
    
    B.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
The phone number for Solair is 203-928-9174.

I'm assuming that everyone is coming from the Mass Pike.

 1. Head towards Sturbridge on the pike and take Exit 9 as if going
    to New York.
 2. Immediately after the toll booth, take the first exit onto Route 20.
 3. At the bottom of the ramp onto Route 20, get into the left lane right
    away.
 4. Take a left at the first light onto Route 131.
 5. Follow this road for about 4 miles to Southbridge (that's SOUTHbridge,
    not STURbridge).
 6. You'll notice a CVS store on the left and a Friendlies restaurant on
    the right on the way down a hill.  At the bottom of the hill is
    the middle of Southbridge.  You will want to take a right at the
    intersection.  If you're not sure about that, there should be a sign
    that points to Woodstock, Ct.
 7. About a 1/4 mile down the road, you'll come up to a fork in the road:
    the left one goes down, the right one goes up.  Take the left road.
    I think this is Elm Street.
 8. Drive 2.5 miles and take a right onto Alpine Drive.  This will happen
    at a Tee in the road (you're already on the straight part of the road).
 9. Drive 2.6 miles on Alpine Drive.  This becomes Brickyard Road without
    notice.  You see the woods open up and there will be a big gray wooden
    garage building on the right.  The road that you'll see is Old English
    Neighborhood Road.  Take a right onto the dirt road.
10. Follow the dirt road all the way to the end and stop at the gate.
    There will be a little booth on the left.  Use the phone there to
    call the office where they'll open the gate for you.
11. Once inside, stay on the right and follow the road to the office.
    You'll see the pond on the right.  The parking lot is ahead and to the
    right beside the tennis courts.
    

While on vacation in Colorado (not close enough to drive to VV, unfortunately),
I stumbled upon a place known as "Orvis Hot Springs", in Ouray (Eur as in 
Europe, ray as in Raymond), near Ridgeway/Montrose.  Kinda
small, but nice.  They have one 2 � ' deep indoor pool (clothing required)
and one outdoor (up to my neck, and I'm 6'3") pond, a small spring and
a bunch of hot tubs.  All but the indoor pool are c/o.  I went with Risa
and we were the only ones there (it was a weekday) for a while.  There was
one guy in the sauna for a bit and another guy joined us in the small but
hot hot-tub.  Overall a nice place, but not everyone in this conference
could fit.


Tim

    Well, it looks like my wife Pat and I are getting to finally go to
    Jamaica. Our original trip planned for last September just after we
    were married had to be canceled. We both got jobs at CXO3 and were
    moving from the cold environs of Mass. to Colorado the exact week we
    were supposed to be leaving for Jamaica.

    We were scheduled last year to go to Couples. However, when we started
    to re-book the trip after moving to the Springs we started checking some
    of the travel agents out. After looking around here we contacted
    Caribbean Travel Naturally in Florida. If you don't know about these
    folks they are a full service travel agency but they deal primarily in
    Naturist/Clothing Optional trips. They currently do a lot of booking on
    the Windjammer Bare-All cruises. After talking to our representative at
    CTN on the phone we ended up booking Hedonism II instead of Couples.
    Our agent has been personally at Couples, Hedonism and Treasure Beach.
    She strongly recommended either Hedonism or Treasure Beach. This was
    based on the availability of nude beach and other resources for nude
    use (such as the nude bar at Hedonism).

    Soooo, we are scheduled to go to Hedonism the week of March 18'th. When
    we get back I'll put an update in here on the resort, the nude
    opportunities, and the service we got from CTN. By the way, CTN DOES
    guarantee the room at the naturist opportunity resorts they deal with.
    They've guaranteed that we will have a room right on the nude beach so
    that we can go directly from the room to the beach without having to
    worry about cover ups, etc. So I'll also let you know if the room is
    really what we requested when we get back.

    		Dave...
                                                                 

    In trying to find a decent clothing-optional destination for our first
    ever trip to the Caribbean I've been looking through a book called 
    Rum & Reggae, What's Hot and What's Not in the Caribbean by Jonathan 
    Runge.

    He's listed some of the better-known nude beaches and a brief description
    of each.  I'll list them minus the descriptions:

    Negril Beach - Jamaica
    Anse de Grande Salines - St Barts
    Hawksbill Beach - Antigua
    Orient Bay Beach - St Martin
    Salomon Beach - St John, US Virgin Islands
    Anse Trabaud - Martinique
    Plage Caravelle - Guadeloupe
    Anegada - British Virgin Islands
    The Grenadines - with the comment that there are many possibilities due to
      the large number of deserted beaches
    Tobago (north coast)

    It's an interesting book, with sections devoted to specific interests and
    the islands catering to those interests - Scuba, Privacy, Cruising, the 
    Cerebral, Golf, Outdoors, Windsurfing, the "Hip", and the Hedonistic.  His
    angle is different from your average travel writer; he seems more down-to-
    earth and realistic.  From his description I gather he's in his early thirties
    and the book was published in 1988, so it's up-to-date.

    As a novice naturist and visitor to the Caribbean, I'm enjoying the book and
    would recommend it.

    Sue

    Re: .32
    
    Well we leave this weekend for Jamaica (Hedonism II). As I indicated in
    the reply .31 we used Caribbean Travel Naturally at Paradise Lakes in
    Florida to book the trip. I indicated that we would follow up with
    recommendations and comments after the trip. 
    
    Well so far we have had numerous problems (plane reservations booked
    for DIFFERENT dates than the dates at Hedonism!!!), now on the third
    reservation specialists, several people who "are no longer with
    Caribbean Travel Naturally". So far they have tried to correct the
    problems, but I guess this weekend will be the telling tale. We'll let
    you know if all was as promised (and contracted for), as well as
    whether we really do get the refund on the "non-refundable" airline
    tickets booked BY THEM for the wrong dates.
    
    		Dave L.

    We booked a trip there through Crimson Travel.  They didn't even blink
    too many times when we requested nude side.