Conference misery::feline

    i forgot to mention that the cat should only be fed twice a day with
    the food taken away between meals( the fresh meat ca n go bad)
    

That's an interesting idea, but I think I'd feel somewhat guilty feeding a cat
like that when there are humans going hungry.

IMO, the best way to feed a cat is (1) teach it to hunt, and (2) let it go to
it.  I'm -really- interested in methods for performing step 1.

    I'd be interested in hearing more about this. 
    
    The canned food I've been getting - Friskies 9 lives - seems to have
    gone down in quality over the past year, based on both my opinion and
    Merlin's rejection rate.
    
    Also, does anyone have a recipe for homemade kitty crackers?
    
    
    re: feeling guilty feeding a cat when humans going hungry
    
    My cats are already living better than a good many people - warm house,
    all the food they want, can do whatever they want all day, regular
    doctor appointments, 2 people servants (heck....they're living better
    than I do!). I don't feel guilty at all spending money for their food,
    that's part of the responsibility I took on when I became a pet owner.
    I don't want them to hunt for their food for a variety of reasons: I
    don't like animal parts being brought into the house; I don't want them
    outside where they could be someone else's dinner; and, stuff they eat
    outside can be deadly (poisened food, etc.); I like to watch the birds
    in my yard having fun, not racing for their lives..... to mention a few
    things. I donate money to many of the local charities and food kitchens
    and do what I can for others, so no, I don't feel guilty.
    
    janetb.
    owned by 2 very spoiled rotten cats - Merlin and Rascal

    
    Canned food - I, no my cats, find the Purina brand the best commercial
    can food. 
    
    Animal by-products - a lot of people in the world consume them on
    a regular basis, as long as they don't carry live bacteria or toxic
    material, I am happy. Cats eat every part of the animals they catch, 
    except feathers and fur. Afterall, cancerous cells are just regular 
    cells that can't stop reproducing!  
    
    
    Eva

    I'd be interested in making some homemade kitty crackers/treats for my
    two if there is such a receipe. I don't think I'd take on making their
    daily chow; sometimes I don't have time for my own cooking. My girls
    love fancy feast - at least 8 of the flavors with the trout being at
    the very top of their list. They reject almost everything else, even sheba.
    I've also found a can of fancy feast each is just right for them along with
    their dry food. Neither one would think of eating leftover canned food,
    which I am okay with, cause then it would have to go in the
    refrigerator.
    
    I don't feel one bit guilty giving my two girls the very best I can.
    That is part of the deal. They get an occasional bug but catching their
    own food is not something they can do because they are not allowed out.
    I do what I can for others, but I know I can't solve world hunger, nor 
    can I take care of all the hungry/homeless animals in the world - though 
    I wish I could.
    
         

    re.3
    
    My cat gets the chicken and I get tofu.
    As for people starving aroung the world what do you suggest I do? What
    are you doing, I hope lots since you seem to care a whole bunch. I
    would teach my cat to hunt but there is not much prey in my apartment.
    I wish this was soapbox because there I could tell you how I really
    feel.
    
    Have a nice day and dont waste any food now people are starving.
    

  Have to jump in here.  While I'm a great cook, we seem to eat more McDonald's,
Taco Bell etc. than is good for us because of very busy schedules.  So if I
found the time to cook more, it would be for us humans and my kitties would 
still get the canned stuff.  Of course, they do get table scraps when they're
lucky.

  HOWEVER, I don't think the base noter deserves some of the comments that have 
been posted here.  Taking good care of kitties is not a crime.  We can't save 
the world, but we can make the world a nicer place for the people and animals 
that we have made a commitment to.  Thousands of people and 4-legged animals 
die every day - I can't stop that.  The two people and five 4-leggeds I live 
with don't go hungry, get cold, etc. - I can see to that.

  We donate to food drives and other charities.  I'm sure we could do more as 
could most people.  And get real, our urban kitties wouldn't last outside
hunting for their dinner.  

  If these recipes seem excessive to you, just hit the next unseen.  I'd much
rather see someone go overboard in this direction.  Remember, Jeffrey Dahmer 
started out abusing animals.  Have a nice weekend.

			SQ

    I have been making this food now for two years and can complete it in
    about 1 hr 15 min including clean up. The chicken of course is done the
    night or two nights before which ever is convenient and chicken takes
    about an hour. I get about 11 days worth of food and the cost is about
    80 cents a day. You can of course make more, I used to do two chickens
    at onc yeilding me about 24 days worth. 
    
    The book from where this recipe comes from is currently on loan to a
    woman whose cats have allergies and the vet recommended she make her
    own food so she can control what ingredients are used. As soon as it is
    returned I will be able to be more specific.
    
    There are many treats which are suitable and are easily made. Try
    giving your cat a chicken vertabrae (cooked) mine goes wild, eyes light
    up fur stands on end, purrs like crazy, etc.
    
    Once again the book is called The New Natural Cat by Anitra Frazier.
    
    re -1  Thanks for standing up for me. I am a vegetarian, I have no car,
    I give my food scraps to a friend that makes chicken feed from them, I
    use baking soda, lemon juice, vinegar, elbow grease to clean my
    apartment, and I also give excess food I make to a single mom who
    appreciates the help. If people are are starving I'm pretty sure I'm
    not the cause.
    
    chris
    

    Thanks for the recipe and the book title.  I have been looking for a
    way to cut my cat food budget (5 cats = $36 and 90 small cans a week;
    you can guess what they think of my at the supermarket cashout every
    Thursday night) while giving them a better quality of cat food.  I don't 
    think my cats are fussy, I think the quality and eatability of the 
    commercial cat food is inconsistent and often makes them sick-up.
    
    I have one cat who absolutely will eat nothing but Fancy Feast
    Flaky Fish, it's not good for a cat to eat so much fish.  We call
    her Feathers McGraw after the character (a penguin) in The Wrong 
    Trousers claymation film.  I'm going to try the chicken and veggies 
    see if she will eat that.
                        

    :-) :-) The Wrong Trousers ... a classic!!!
    
    Sue

    >way to cut my cat food budget (5 cats = $36 and 90 small cans a week;
    
    I don't know where you live, but I buy Kal Kan Optium (small cans) at
    Costco at a price of $9.99 for 48 cans; they also sell 9 Lives and
    Fancy Feast for the same price (48 cans for $9.99).
    
    Deb

    Re .9 
    My two will only eat Fancy Feast, and then only certain flavors. Fancy
    Feast can be expensive especially in the super markets - anywhere from
    40 cents per can up. I've been buying mine at PetStuff or Just for
    Pets. I usually pay no more than 33 cents per can. Sometimes as low as
    29. I get cases (24 per) on the flavors they love such as tuna and
    trout, but you don't have to buy cases. I go thru 14 cans per week.
    This is supplemented with IAMS or Science Diet, or lately Fancy Feast
    dry - which they love. I don't know if you live near any of these
    stores,but I am sure there is some pet supply near you with prices
    better than the supermarket. Best of all, weekly kitty food trips are
    gone, and I am never out of food for them. (yes sometimes people food is
    gone, but not kitty food! Never!)
    
    Linda

Re .12:
Have you spoken with your vet about this diet?

    I'm sorry Howard, I don't understand what  you mean by speaking to my
    vet about this diet.
    

Humans like pizza and ice cream.  This doesn't mean it's good for us.

re .15

>Humans like pizza and ice cream.  This doesn't mean it's good for us.

Unless your doctor tells you to modify your diet, and you don't eat pizza
and ice cream morning, noon and night, there's nothing wrong with them.  The
"fat police" drive me nuts!  (And I also think they are dangerous - I have a 
customer who is going through the pain of a bulimic daughter.)

Unless your vet tells you that your kitties have problems, you are probably 
okay giving them what they want.  Contrary to what many people think, a cat
will go very hungry rather than eat food it hates.  For our Tatoo, it was a 
difference of 3 pounds of body weight.  Our vet normally prefers Science Diet
but she also can't argue with the good health our kitties enjoy on Fancy 
Feast (they only get half a can a day - and Trudy thinks that's starvation 
rations - she's also probably the guilty party who polished off the left-over
asparagus I forgot to put away; what a garbage can!).

			SQ

re .16:

I'm mainly thinking about the fact that Fancy Feast was in the "High
Magnesium" section of the list the vet gave me after Mu had a bout with
FUS.  But if it works for you...

    I am getting more amd more requests from the people around me for this
    food and book asd am finding it difficult to get hold of the book. Just
    post a question you have about the food and I will try to answer it to
    the best of my knowledge.
    
    chris
    

    I have a copy of "The Natural Cat" at home.  Don't have "The New
    Natural Cat".  If I can be of any assistance with the old version,
    let me know.  I dont' have the thing memorized or anything like that
    but I'll be happy to look something up if necessary.
    
    Jan

    So has anybody tried this diet?
    
    Out of the 10 or so people I personally helped get started about 7 are
    continuing with it. Those 7 people are very happy at the change in
    energy levels, fur quality, weight reduction, lovely odour free stools,
    interest in food again, etc. 
    
    Some of these cats took 6 weeks before they would eat a whole portion.
    The change from commercial food to homemade food is a big one. In all
    cases the cats did not recognize the food as food for at least 2 or 3
    days. A couple of the cats enjoyed the break from eating on a regular
    basis. If you never take their food away they never stop producing
    digestive salivas, so they eat and eat and eat, poor things. Imagine
    the smell of cooked roast beef everyday all day. One would get sick of
    roast beef real quick. 
    
    What most of my friends have noticed is the change in stools. Their
    kittys used to have black runny, hard, inconsistant stool as opposed to
    the light brown dry fluffy stools of the homemade food variety. The
    fact that the catsd seemed more regular was enough to convince my
    friends that something good was happening to the cats. 
    
    I cant help but wonder what Morris the cat gets to eat. He is such a
    healthy looking cat. I cant believe he eats what he advertises.

    My cat Shadow has been having a lot of problems with diarrhea lately.
    She is 11 years old and her geriatric blood test showed her liver and
    kidney enzymes elevated.   We've tried several different things.  We
    had her on amoxicillen for a month (liver takes a long time to heal)
    which increased her diarrhea, so I was also giving her a 1/4 tablet of
    kaopectate along with the amoxicillen.  We had her on a K/D diet (wet
    and dry) and even after the month long antibiotic treatment was up, 
    she still had diarrhea.  So then we tried flagyl to see if she had a
    bacterial infection.  She still had diarrhea.   We had x-rays to see if
    there were any enlargement of organs and all was normal.  The only
    other diagnostic tools that was left to try was some type of biopsy
    procedure of her stomach and intestines.   I was really concerned about
    doing this, since she had lost so much weight and seemed to be stressed
    out, so we decided to try a baby food "lamb only" diet to eliminate
    food allergies as the culprit.   Shadow was to get 1/2 (2.2 oz jar) in
    the morning and the other 1/2 at night.  Well, this did seem to help
    somewhat, but Shadow was starving.   Crying constantly for food.   So,
    the vet said that we could increase the amount of lamb to 1 1/2 jars a
    day, but to mix it with boiled rice to add a little bulk.   Well, this
    has seemed to help somewhat.  Some days her stools are still soft, but
    then again other days, it looks almost normal.  But she was still
    hungry.   So, now I've added to her diet, Iams "lamb and rice" based
    diet for cats.   This has helped tremendously in that she doesn't act
    like she is starving to death anymore.   (Iams also has a can lamb and
    rice food that I tried, but she ended up having very bad diarrhea after
    being on this a couple of days, but she seems to tolerate the dry
    well.)
    
    Now that the story has been explained, what I'd like to know is:
                                                        
    I've been using a ratio of about 1 cup of rice to 3 jars of baby food,
    and this makes up about 6 jars of lamb baby food/rice mix.  So I feed
    2 jars a day.    I keep these in the refrigerator, but I'd really like
    to be able to make up more than 3 days worth of food at a time.   Could 
    a weeks worth of this food be safely kept in the refrigerator or would
    I need to freeze it?
    
    Also, all I can find are these small 2.2 oz jars of lamb baby food,
    does anyone know if these can be found in larger sizes?
    
    Could I prepare lamb baby food myself by buying lamb?   How would I
    prepare it if I did?

    Re: .21
    
    When my cats have been on rice and something diets, I've used
    Minute Rice, and zapped it in the microwave, so it's been
    easy to make up a portion each day instead of in bulk.  I believe
    regular rice keeps for awhile in the fridge, so if you prefer to
    use regular rice, you might make up a pot of rice, refrigerate it,
    and then mix a portion of it with a newly opened can of baby food
    each day.
    
    

    
    One of many ways way to make baby food:
    Well, go to a butcher, buy a good cut of lamb, tell them you
    can to make baby food from it and they can recommend the cut.
    Cut out all the fats and tendons. Cut the meat in thin slices
    (for stirfry). Heat up a bit of water (1 cup os so) to a boil.
    Put a few slcies in at a time and cook until done. Put the
    cooked lamb and the cooking water in a food processor and 
    liquifiy it. 
    
    Eva
    
    

	When Sabrina had liver poisoning, I had to feed her a mixture of
	boiled ground lamb mixed with yeast and rice.  I wish I still had
	the recipe.  I can't remember what kind of yeast it was, alot of
	"health nuts" sprinkle it over their food. Brewer's yeast?? Anyway,
	the recipe made a huge portion.  I froze a lot of it in ice cube trays,
	then popped them out and wrapped in saran with tie wraps.  They kept
	in the freezer for a month, only had to cook it once and nuked it to
	defrost.
    
	Laura

    you can substitute lamb for chicken in the basenote recipe, just keep
    the three to one ratio! This food is so easy to make. if any of you
    live in the ottawa area and are interested just leave me not in the
    mail and i could arrange a demonstration and help make the first batch
    and generally help you along.
    
    chris