Conference misery::feline

    It could be the change in seasons for them.  Mine are doing odd things
    too that they know are no no's in the house.  Timothy is whining all of
    the time and I am loosing patience with him.
      
    He has gone as far as to take items and pick them off the surface they
    are on when I am right there knowing full well that isn't normal
    practice for them.  
    
    The full moon is on the 19th and that could be something that is
    causing them to be looney tunes, or could there be a warning sign that
    mother nature is going to act up?????
    
    Georgiana has taken to wetting on the newspaper and there isn't a thing
    wrong with her litter box nor with her physically.  Tatiana who usually
    isn't the most friendly or should I say amourous (sp) of kitties is
    snuggly up with me.
    
    When Timothy and Anastacia go outside they are leaping and bounding all
    over creation and it is the funniest thing.  They also sit on the
    neighbors stoop who moved out, and were meant to them, and act like
    they won back their territory.
    
    Clarisse is charging after Christopher and she is usally laid back and
    curls up in a basket, but she is really doing a number here.  Rocky
    Buttercup, Timothy's mom, is taking her son and attacking him and I
    would say in a loving manner, but still her aggresiveness is something
    else.
    
    Who knows why they do these things, but there could be a change in our
    lifestyles that affected them.  Or they have been ordering those catnip
    pizza's from the underground cat networking group.  I know those pizza
    boxes are in the dumpster when I dump the litter in there.  I also
    noticed the phone bill has been getting a bit higher, lots of calls
    to Catmandu lately.  Maybe they are going to do what the animals did in
    Animal Farm....revolt and take us over.
    
    Go figure
    
    Elise

    My 7 kitties have also been acting up.  They are opening up cabinet
    doors all the time.  I feel like it's a steady job just shutting them
    again.  They are also doing a lot of running in the house, chasing each
    other up and down the stairs.
    
    I find this kind of behavior happens every fall when I have to close
    the windows and close off the enclosed porch for the winter.  They are
    all indoor kitties but they enjoy sitting in open windows and hanging
    out on the porch.  It usually takes a couple of weeks before they
    resign themselves to being cooped up until spring.
    

    Good observation .2  the fall does change their days of open windows
    and porches for lounging about and catching flying things.
    
    It is cabin fever even before the cabin is been closed for to long.  I
    have noticed the constant running about, they make more noise chasing
    each and pouncing down the steps.
    
    Christopher William has decided that the armoire, where I keep the
    stereo, cd's and tapes should be is own private Idaho.  He decided to
    knock out the few tapes I have to make more room for him to nap in.
    
    He also gets inside the cabinet with all of the plastic food
    containers.
    
    I think the kitten has the best idea, she sits right near the heat vent
    and enjoys that.
    
    But they don't have the warm breezes blowing through the windows and
    ability to look at the world from a window.  I agree with them it
    should be that way all year round.

    
    I have to agree. It's the weather and the fact the days are getting
    shorter.  My guys have all been acting up and are even 'pretending'
    they are going to hibernate this winter and are eating like they'll
    never eat again!    I mean they do have all that extra fur to grow!
    AH AH AHCHOOO!!
    
    Becky
    
    

    Nippa has been more affectionate, started tolerating the new puppy�, and
    bringing me little pressies after a 4 yr. hiatus.
    
    Must be Fall......
    
    �The new German Shephard puppy has been with us for 7 months now, he's 
    	about 100 lbs of solid muscle.  Maybe their story needs a different
    	entry.
    

    The kitties are becoming much more cuddlly now. The cats are relearning
    how to take over the whole bed. I do feel bad about closing the
    windows, but it is getting chilling. They look at me and then look at
    the window. Sometimes I open it for an hour or so.

    
    Hey, my kids have never been outside (except for dreaded trips to the
    vet) and they're all completely off the wall lately too...
    
    len.
    

    Mandy and Moxie are acting up also--but I am happy to
    say that they are finally doing it together!  They wrestle
    with each other daily--and some of the growling and hissing
    that accompanies it is subsiding.
    
    Mandy (the older one) has even started sleeping on my
    bed again--which for the last three months has been
    a place to be avoided as the little one is always there.
    
    I'm eagerly awaiting the time when they will curl up together--
    but for now I am content to watch them go nuts running around
    the apartment together. ( I, too think it's the onslaught of
    fall and closed windows)
    
    Moxie has even found a new favorite resting place while "mom"
    talks on the phone in the kitchen--the dish drainer!

    Whatever's in the air has made its way to California!!  Last night
    Mai Buri, Blue Buri, and little Newton went on a drawer and cabinet
    emptying spree in the kitchen.  What a mess!!  They ripped open a bag
    of rice and used it to surf across the floor.  Also mingled in with
    the rice was the plastic measuring cup we use when we make rice and
    they had also knocked the rice cooker out of the cabinet onto the
    floor.  Hmmm...maybe they're smarter than I give them credit for.
    Chef Newton?
    
    Carl

    Behavior problems?? How would I know.?
    
    	Chris is having an abcess a week, and inspite of a couple of
    	thousand dollars trying to prevent him, is still jumping on the roof.
    
    	Ninja want's more cuddle time, 7 minutes (and not a second over) 
    	cuddled under human chin and rocked like a baby.  That's an increase 
    	on the original 5 minutes (and not a second over or I'll bit your
    	ear).  And as long as food appears the second she demands it she's
    	OK.
    
    	Charlie has taken to having his tummy rubbed, strange for him as
    	he doesn't like being fussed as a rule.
    
    	Lady Elizabeth is being quite nice to me.  She usually treats me
    	like a lacky:  open my food, open the door, sit still and keep me warm.
    
    	Tigger!   Dear old ancient Tigger--he's just sleeping his twilight
    	years away in the sun.  I'm going to miss that old hellion when he
    	goes.
    
    They all LOVE the new overstuffed sectional.  Now there's room for
    three cats and two humans--I still have to sit on the floor.  Otherwise, 
    they are the same dysfunctional bunch they always are.
    were.
    

    I am very concerned about something that happened this morning.
    
    I have a male and female, litter-mates, 10 yrs old, both "fixed",
    normal, healthy indoor cats.  There is never a change in routine, 
    they know we go to work everyday same time, I give Max his treats,
    put my coat on, shot goodbye to everyone and leave.
    
    Well, this morning was no different, I put my coat on .. then saw 
    Max trying to cover something on the living-room carpet.  He'd
    wet the carpet.
    
    He's *never* in the whole 10 yrs we've had them done that.  He seems
    to be feeling fine, but did seem embarrassed or ashamed, I think, that 
    he'd done that.  The only other thing I did notice was that he seemed
    to be going around sniffing the floor a lot.
    
    I didn't yell or speak harshly to him, instead I talked softly to him,
    cleaned it up (I blotted it until the paper towel was dry, then hot
    water and Pine Sol leaving it very wet for the day.  When I go home
    I'll try dumping baking soda on there.) and had to leave for work.
    
    What could be up with him?  Will this spot attract them so that one of 
    them may perhaps do it again?  Why would he do this all of a sudden?
    
    If a cat were outside, and bothered Max, could he have done this to
    maybe mark his territory?  (Although there were no windows/doors open
    ands he hadn't been up to the window).
    
    I'm worried....
    
    Sue        
    

    Hi Sue,
    
    With any change of behaviour such as this, I would definitely
    recommend a vet visit first to rule out any medical problems.
    80% of the time this issue is related to medical problems
    such as infection, FUS, blockage etc.   If the vet gives the
    kitty a clean bill of health then you know the issue is
    a behavioral issue and can start to deal with that problem.
    
    I don't waste anytime in getting to the vet whenever my
    cats starting peeing/pooping outside of their box.  It is
    there ONLY way of telling you something is wrong.   
    
    As far as the spot on the rug...I would recommend getting an
    enzyme cleaner to be sure you remove any smell completely. 
    
    Good luck...and keep us posted.
    
    Sandy

    
    Ok, 4pm today is the appt...thanks for the quick response
    Sandy :-)
    
    (I'm just concerned because he's never done this before...I
    guess it's like the first time your baby gets the sniffles
    or looks flushed).
    
    Sue   

    I honestly don't know....
    
    How does the vet tell that it is a bladder infection?  I mean,
    the cat can't tell him symptoms he's experiencing...is there a
    test or something?
    
    Then, if they're living "good" lives now, (ie clean box, fresh
    food, water and milk, treats, no other animals or many people
    coming into the house) what's to prevent this from happening
    again?  
    
    Do these germs/infections just arise "spontaneously"?  How can
    I do more to decrease the probability of this re-occuring?
    
    Sue

    Did you mention to the vet what the problem was?  When one of my cats
    was using the rug I had to put her into the bathroom with a litter box
    with only a tablespoonful of litter.  That way, when she used the box
    there was some urine to collect to be analyzed at the vets.  She did
    have a bladder infection, was given antibiotics and has not had a
    problem since (although we do buy special dry food for all 3 cats now).
    
    Linda

    Yes, I did mention it ... wait, actually, I think the receptionist 
    mentioned "bladder infection" first, but didn't tell me to bring 
    anything with me.  But, now that you've told me, I can bring the 
    paper-towel that I used to blot it up with.
    
    Here's a thought....both cats use the same box.  Might the vet 
    put both on antibiotics to be safe?  (Mind you, I haven't noticed
    Daisy do anything out of the ordinary [yet]).
    
    Thanks for the tip on taking a sample.
    
    Sue
    
    Sue

    There are urine and blood tests a vet can peform to determine
    if there are any medical problems.  I hope my note didn't
    rush you into things...but from my personal experience I
    could have lost my Rio if I did not get him to the vet
    when he was blocked.  
    
    Infections can come from anywhere!!!!!  
    
    Sandy

    Many times a vet can just squeeze the bladder to get
    a urine sample.   If that don't work they will probably
    recommend what Linda had to do...ie confine in room with
    litterbox and very little litter.
    
    I doubt they can use the paper towel for a good sample.

    No, I asked the receptionist how quickly they think I should    
    get him in there and she said "certainly by early tomorrow",
    and I'd rather be sure anyway.  The sooner he is seen, the
    sooner he can get whatever treatment he needs.
    
    I'll take the paper-towel just in case....
    
    Sue
    
    ps ...and they were just at the vet's 3 weeks ago for their 
       annual check-up and boosters, and I made a point to ask
       the vet, now that they're "gettin up there" (10 yrs old)
       should I think about changing anything ... food, whatever
       ...and he said "Nope, they're beautiful, healthy cats and 
       if 'it ain't broke, don't fix it' !!"  
    
    pps Hey, I wonder if Max picked up the germs while at the vets?! 

    Sue,
    
    You are right to take the cat to the vet asap.  They can express
    the bladder there.  Hopefully it will be full!!  It sounds to me like
    it could be a health related issue.  The only other thing is if
    something has changed in your house that may have stressed the poor old
    guy out.  He isn't that old by the way!  My Stinky is 11 and alot of
    cats live to be around 20.  He will need to be watched or pampered a
    tad more tho! ;'}  Don't worry, I am sure he will be fine.
    Karen

    
    	I have found [and been told by my vet!] that any Pounce-type 
    	treats can cause bladder problems in cats. Have you fed that 
    	to him recently?
    
    	My vet is also an expert at obtaining a urine sample by in-
    	serting a needle into the bladder through the abdomen. Not a
    	pleasant thought, but it works..
    
    	Sherry
    

    Re: .21
    
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who's see that effect with Pounce --
    my cats would get urinary problems within a day of eating Pounce.
    <Insert mumbling about the company that makes Pounce here>
    
    My understanding is that a cat showing signs of a urinary tract
    infection should get to the vet pronto, because a complete blockage
    can be fatal within 24 hours.  Your vet can recommend special food
    that minimizes teh possibility of a recurrence(sp?).
    

After some fun with FUS I had a few years ago, my cats get only Science Diet,
though IAMS is supposed to be okay too.  My cats won't eat IAMS.

    Neutered males are prone to get urethral obstructions.  All these
    notes pretty much sum it up.  Improper urination is a sign that
    something is up - medical or behavioral.  The vet helps with both
    problems & for different reasons a speedy visit is better.
    
    Many kitty treats & commercial diets make the urine more alkaline -
    what can happen is that struvite crystals can precipitate out & cause a
    blockage.  The flip side is that the special low magnesium acidifying
    diets can allow for the formation of calcium oxylate crystals.  So
    there's no perfect solution, but the low mag diet definitely helps.
    
    Many hospitals routinely get samples by cystocentesis.  That way
    the sample is a direct reflection of what's in the bladder.  It bothers
    the cats more to be restrained rather than the actual sample taking -
    it's really quick & as long as the bladder is palpable, it's very easy
    to do.  Quick stab with the needle & you've got a more valuable sample.
    Definitely worth it.
    
    Good luck with your kitty!!
    -liz

    I took him yesterday, he is absolutely terrified of that place,
    and when the vet tried to squeeze his bladder, well, it broke
    my heart the way Max looked at me.  I wanted them to keep him
    overnight to get a urine sample and do blood work, because I'm
    not home during the day so if he got really sick, I wouldn't
    be there to tend to him.  So, they've got him and while he's
    in I asked if they would clean his teeth to prevent yet another
    trip for the little guy.
    
    I know it sounds ridiculous but I got upset just leaving him there
    for that and I missed him terribly overnight.  I can't imagine what
    happens when I really lose him for good.
    
    Regarding all of your replies, thank you.  I do give him Pounce,
    practically every day for the last 18 mos...but had no idea what
    it could do.  We'll have to find him some other treats.  
    
    And I know he's not really old, I'm just remembering a brochure I
    saw 3 weeks ago when he went for his check-up that converted
    "cat-years" into "human years" and at 10 ... he's the equivilent
    of 90 human years!! 
    
    So, I'll call later and see how he's doing.  He'll hate me forever
    for doing this to him...I just know it.   And I was his favorite
    human :-}  Oh well..
    
    Thanks again,
    Sue

   Sue,
  
   While he may not *like* you very much for taking him there and leaving
   him overnight, he won't HATE you for taking care of him and for caring.

   When Ginny was still here, Dickens had a problem with urination and
   it turned out to be crystals - while he didn't like having to go
   to the vet or having a sample taken, he was a *very* happy cat once
   the problem was found and treatment kicked in !!!!

   Believe me, we feel a lot worse than they do - just like human kids !!!

   I hope the results come back fine and he's home tonight !

   Debbi

    
    I don't know if this is the right place to pursue, but on the pounce
    treats - the crunchy ones or the moist ones or both? I've been giving
    these as treats for years. My 2 girls are 2 yrs and 4 yrs. Kitties
    before them got pounce too. I only give them the crunchy pounce, and 
    they each get about 5 as I go out the door in the morning. Yes, guilt
    about leaving them. I also give them some moist treats every so often,
    but not pounce - they do not like the moist ones. If there is another
    place discussing this, please let me know.
    
    Thanks,
    Linda

Re .25:

Those conversion concepts to multiply by age by n to get "human years" are just
bs as far as I can tell.  A ten year old cat is not like a 70 or 90 year old
human.  A 20 year old cat, maybe, but the relationship isn't as simple as
just multiplying one number by another.

Kittens start reproducing at 0.5 years.  They're full grown by around 2.  Then,
nothing much changes until 15 or more years have passed, in cases I'm aware of
with normal cats.

I don't know of too many pregnant 3.5 year-olds (to use the 7 cat years/1 human
year figure), or ditto 4.5 year-olds (to use the figure you seem to be using).
We had a cat which lived to be almost 21.  I'm sorry, but you just can't
multiply that by nine to get human years.  It doesn't work.

Note, I'm not flaming -you-, rather I'm flaming the concept.

According to the list the vet I was working with when my female had FUS gave me,
Pounce is not something to give a cat if you want it to be healthy.  I guess it
might be kind of like giving them donuts.  I typed that list in back when I got
it.  I'll see if I can find it and post it here.

    I've been giving Max the moist Pounce treats.  He likes moist anything
    ..treats, canned food ... that's why his teeth are so bad.  His sister,
    on the other hand, likes the crunchy "tartar-control" things that came
    out about 9 mos ago and she never has any of the canned food.  As a 
    result, she has white teeth and none of the "dragon-breath" that Max 
    has!!
    
    Sue

    Re: "age"
    
    I believe the upper (unusual) cat age limit is about 30.  Two of my
    cats are in their teens somewhere (if I were more organized, I'd
    remember exactly).
    

    I read someplace, Maybe "Catfancy " mag, that the so called conversion
    from cat to human years is as follows, for the first 2 years, count 1
    cat year as 7 human years, a 1 year old cat is 7 years old, and a 2
    year old cat is like a 14 year old.  After that, count the cat years
    the same as human years.  But you are right, the formula doesn;t
    translate prefectly.  There are not a lot of 3 1/2 year old girls pregnant
    in these parts, but anything possible in the USA.
    
                                                     

re .32:

Maybe it's pregnant 3.5 year old boys we should be looking for, since we -know-
there aren't any 3.5 year old pregnant girls.

Uh.... yeah.

    RE. 25
    
      I wouldn't worry too much about hos not liking you.  If he's like my
    Max he will only be mad for a couple of days then I'm back to being his
    favorite again.
    
      I would Like to know about the pounce also my 8 month old kitten
    loves the tartar control ones.  I give him four or five a day for his
    teeth.  Only him and his mother seem to like them.
    
    Dennis

    Well, Max is back.  The blood and urine came back normal and the
    dr. wasn't concerned over one episode (with the tests being normal).
    When I asked about the Pounce being bad for them, he said "in a 
    cat with recurring problems, yes, I would worry, but he doesn't
    have a problem".  When I asked about changing his diet, he said
    "No need, he's a healthy cat".
    
    So, that was it. Max is home, with clean, beautiful teeth and seems
    no worse for wear, except that the first thing he did was go over
    and smell the spot he'd wet.  It had about an inch thick of Arm &
    Hammer Carpet Cleaner (the powder stuff) on it at the time, but 
    there was no fooling him!!  Luckily he didn't linger and hasn't
    seemed to go back to it so hopefully, that's it.
    
    I do want to find something natural to put down around the foundation
    of our house to keep the neighbor's 3 cats from coming around and
    spraying our foundation and bushes.  It drives out cats nuts (ours
    are indoor cats) and the vet said maybe knowing one of the cats was
    out there could've triggered Max's "episode".
    
    So, thanks again for everyone's concern and suggestions.  
    
    Sue 

    Oh..yeah..the Pounce...that's the moist ones that are bad...not
    the crunchy ones...that's what I've assuming...am I right?
    
    Sue

    
    	Yes, it's the moist ones [other brands, too] that are bad. Some-
    	thing to do with the chemical that keeps them moist....forever.
    
    	Sherry

    Thanks for all the input on the Pounce. Mine only get the crunchy, and 
    whatever other brand(whisker lickins?) I buy of the moist ones will be 
    eliminated. As you say, there must be some nasty chemical to keep them 
    moist, and they do have an awful smell. I've not had any problems with my 
    kitties, neither these 2 who are very young, or 2 others that lived to 
    their late teens, but as you learn new information, you change. 
    
    

    The Pounce that trigger fus in my cats are the ones that come in
    small cardboard tubes in various flavors.   The Pounce are shaped
    like triangles.

    Thank you , Howard, for posting that list of "good" and "bad"
    foods.  It turns out I've been feeding mine the high magnesium
    stuff all along.  
    
    Sue