Conference misery::feline

    When I have doubts about the vet's expertise or the treatment
    is not working, I go to another vet for a second opinion.  You may want
    to consider this as well.
    
    There is a vet school within an hour of where I live, so if I doubt the
    second opinion too, that's another option, although I have not had cause
    to go there yet.  Perhaps there's a vet school in your area too.
    
    If it really is frostbitten ears, turning up the heat when you leave
    for the day may be a better alternative than paying all those vet
    bills and worrying about Wokkie, not to mention having a healthier
    happier kitty and avoiding potential suffering.
    
    Good luck to you and Ewok.  Please keep us informed.
    Carl

    I also second the decision of another opinion.  I do know a few
    kitties who have squished ears because of frostbite...but those cats
    were outdoor strays that spent the winter out in the cold.  I find
    it very hard to believe that 50 tempature could cause frostbite..
    but maybe that can happen if the kitty is anemic..who knows!
    
    I also know of a few kitties who get squished ears because of a
    bad case of mites...was your kitty checked for this too!!!  I
    would think if it was mites...the cat would be scratching...but I
    also heard that some cats who have lived with mites for a long time
    do become use to the itching/pain!!
    
    Please keep us posted...this is a new one for this notesfile and
    we can all learn from your experience.   Hugs to kitty...
    
    Sandy
    
    

    ...oh my God!
    
    I turn the heat down to 50 every night and Abigail (on Medrol and
    Prednisone) doesn't seem to be showing (or did she ever) any 
    signs of frostbite!  I'll check into it as the poor thing has
    been through hell and I don't want to screw things up for her now.
    
    Let us know what you find out.
    
    Marilyn
    
    P.S.  Good luck, by the way, hope they find out what is really
          causing the problem.
    
    

    I heard from the vet this afternoon.  The good news is that her red
    blood count and hemoglobin is back in the normal range.  However, her
    red blood cells are still enlarged, but they are smaller than they were
    on the first blood test.  The vet had another test done based on some
    info he got from the lab and it was determined that she has Rulow (sp?)
    Formulation which is when the red blood cells clump together in chains.
    This impedes the vascular system which could explain the dying ear
    tissue - she is not getting enough blood circulating through her ears.
    He said this is not very common.
    
    Anyway, he said it was important to continue to keep her warm.  He said
    to keep the space heater on until the house temperature is consistently
    at least 60 degrees.  He feels that she will need to stay on the
    prednisone for the rest of her life but he did cut her back to one
    tablet a day.  He asked if her ears were getting worse - if the dead
    area was expanding.  Fortunately, it is not and he said we probably
    saved the rest of her ears, the tip of her tail and possibly the pads
    of her feet by catching this quickly.  He also said it was very
    important not to stop giving her the pills (like if I went away for a
    weekend).  I am concerned about the stress of boarding her (she has
    never been boarded before) as she is not the healthiest of cats and
    she stresses out easily.  When she gets stressed she drools heavily
    (she has soaked her whole chest, feet and tail), gets very mean, and
    stops eating & drinking.  I also will have to board her at the cat
    hospital because I don't think the cat room at the kennel where I board
    my dog will be warm enough.  Also, all the dogs coming in to be boarded
    come into the cat room for check-in.  That would just upset her more.
    I am thinking about this now because we are moving to Portland, OR in
    March and have to make frequent weekend trips to go house-hunting.  I
    think I will look into finding a pet sitter - less stress for everyone!
    
    Thank you for your suggestions - I wish there was a vet school nearby
    but I think the only one in Washington is at the other end of the state 
    300 miles away!  A second vet did see her, the back-up vet at my vet's
    office.  She seemed to agree with his treatment plan.  As for ear mites
    the vet did look in her ears (she loved that - I believe he lost a
    chunk of his hand during that maneuver!)  At this point, I think I am
    going to "wait and see".  When I move, I will have to find a new vet so
    we will see what that person says.
    
    The bottom line is that Wokkie is an older cat, I don't know for sure
    how old she is because I got her at the pound but the vet thinks she is
    at least 10.  She has had a lot of problems (excessive drooling, bad
    balance - her back end doesn't always follow the front, low weight -
    she's probably at her highest weight now which is about 6 lbs.) but if
    she is not in pain (although that's hard to tell because she is one of
    those Persians who always looks ticked off!) I will do whatever I can
    to keep her comfortable for the remainder of her life.  Her ears aren't
    bothering her, the symptoms aren't getting worse, it may not be
    necessary to really try to find out what's causing all of this as long
    as I can control it.
    
    I will post any developments...
    
    Caren 

    Hi Caren,
    
    Something in your last reply triggered a memory for me - before we had
    to put Sherry down he developed weakness in back end and bad balance. 
    One of the things that our vets tried was to treat him for potassium
    deficiency, as those are classic symptoms.  Potassium deficiency is
    diagnoised through blood tests, but as we were racing against the
    clock, we didn't have time to wait for the tests so we tried the
    treatment anyway.  It turned out that Sherry didn't have potassium
    deficiency, but that might be something to ask your vet to look for.
    Our vets told us that the other possibilities were a tumor or severe
    arthritis in his spine.  
    
    As for the 50 degrees can't cause frostbite, I am living proof that it
    can.  Any individual with circulation problems will be more sensitive
    to cold temperatures, as without circulation there is no heat.  Also
    remember that the cats ears are the farthest things uphill from the
    cat's heart - if the blood isn't moving through the small vessels
    because of the clumping, then there won't be heat in the ears.  Poor
    baby, I know how she feels!!!!
    
    Kittie hugs to Wokkie, I'd recommend that you do look for a pet sitting
    service for your upcoming househunting trips - Also, instead of a
    spaceheater, you might try a heating pad for Wokkie (or use it in
    combination with the space heater).  I know Sherry when he got older
    really enjoyed the heating pad.
    
    regards,
    Dana

    Where is Seattle do you live? I have a very good pet sitter that I use
    for my 2 when I go away, but she will only cover the Bellevue/Issaquah
    area, I believe. I will post her business and phone number if you want
    it.
    
    Debbie

    Debbie -
    
    Please post the info on the pet sitter or send me mail I live up on
    the Plateau in Redmond so I should be within range.
    
    As for the potassium deficiency.  When I first got Wokkie and she was
    sick, we did the full range of blood tests and it was determined that
    she had potassium deficiency and was given potassium powder to be
    sprinkled on her food.  She was re-tested several months later and 
    found to be in the normal range.  I still have the bottle of powder and
    I will ask the vet if she should still be getting some extra potassium.
    
    Wokkie LOVES her space heater - she puts her face right up to it.  It's
    the kind with a thermostat so that when the temp gets over 68 degrees
    in her space, it shuts off.
    
    She is getting very adept at hiding her prednisone pill in her mouth
    until I turn my back and then she spits it out.  I give her the pill
    right before I feed her - I open the can and she starts purring, I
    stuff the pill in her mouth, hold her mouth closed and massage her
    throat for a few seconds and then let her eat - I even stand there and
    watch her start eating but when I come back to clean her dish, I find
    the pill next to the dish!
    
    She looks good (except for her ears which make her look like the
    Flying Nun!!), she's eating well and she's even purring and
    occasionally wants to be held.  She's also drinking a lot of water
    (but only directly from the faucet or from the dog's dish - never from
    her own dish).
    
    Wokkie and I both appreciate all the advice we're getting from the
    Feliners.
    
    Caren + the Ewok

    Just got a hint on pilling your cat from the 365 cats calendar -
    after you pill your cat, rub her throat until she licks her nose.
    Apparently, all cats lick their nose after swallowing, so unless
    she does this, she's probably hiding the pill and pulling a 
    Garfield when you're not looking  (ptewey!!)
    
    Good luck
    Pam

    Her name is Lark Stebbins, and her business is the Critter Sitter Inc.
    Her phone is 392-6014.
    I have been using her for 4 years, and have gone away for as long as
    10 days and left the kids in her care. She will come meet them, take a
    full medical history, etc before you leave them the first time. She
    charges $15 per visit.
    Tell her you got her name from me...

    I have a question.
    
    To technically have "frost bite", doesn't the temperature actually
    have to reach a freezing temperature?  Not just from a lack of
    circulation.  If I remember correctly from the old Vermont days,
    when the temp was low enough and you didn't have protection,
    your circulation would be impeded causing tissue damage.
    
    If your circulation is just poor can you still call it frost bite?
    Sorry if this is to nit picky!
    Karen

    Also, on pilling... when we had to do Boomer every night, for the
    ringworm, I would sit in an easy chair (so that he couldn't back away
    from me), put his butt under my left arm (I am right handed), take his
    head in my left hand and hold it back and up (to give a clear shot down
    the throat), hold the pill between my thumb and first finger, open his
    mouth with my middle and index fingers, drop the pill to the back of
    his throat, close his mouth real fast, and hold in almost completely
    shut, giving him just enough motion to move his tongue in the
    swallowing motion, and then blow on his face (very gently)... he would
    then swallow, as it was the only way to clear a path for him to take a
    breath.

    This sounds long and complicated, but it only took a matter of
    seconds......... once I caught him that is!

    M-L

    
    
    	When I had to pill Chloe for a month I knew she wouldn't
    	stand for it for that long of a period of time so I took
    	to smooshing a kitty treat around the pill.  She ate the
    	treat and the pill with it!  Worked great every time.
    
    

    This 50-degree frostbite stuff is fascinating (you learn something new
    in here every day!).  Glad Wokkie is doing OK.
    
    My nit on this string is that I'm not sure I would call it a "second
    opinion" if the vet you asked is in the same clinic as the first vet;
    I'd expect to get a playback of Vet #1's opinion.  Maybe I'm too
    cynical, but I think there's a stronger incentive for Vet #2 to agree
    with his colleague than to approach the case as if it were a new
    walk-in.  (Even if Vet #2 didn't know the case history, might s/he not
    consult with Vet #1 in the course of diagnosis?)
    
    Leslie

    Hi Karen,
    
    The way I understand it, frostbite is defined as the tissue dying
    because of cold - the nerves don't have to be frozen to be injured. 
    Flesh will take longer to become injured (and once injured is horribly
    susceptible to gangrene - ugh), but can become technically frostbitten
    well above 32 degrees.  The other phenomenon is called frost nip, which
    is the precursor to frostbite, the pain and tingling sensation as the
    nerves are trying to tell you "Hey - its COLD out, dummy!"...
    
    Extremities are more susceptible because of the nearness of the blood
    vessels to the surface, and the lack of mass within which to hold the
    heat.  Distance from the heart is also a factor.  
    
    Here's to staying warm!
    
    Dana

    Well, one of Wokkie's ear tips finally fell off a few days ago.  It was
    still attached in the morning when I went to feed her but when I came
    back in the room, I saw a few drops of blood on the counter and the ear
    tip was gone.  I had been worried that there may be a lot of bleeding
    when the ear piece fell off but there was hardly any.  Again, she does
    not seem bothered by it, but she looks like someone took a bite out of
    the top of her ear.  I found the piece that fell off on my dining room
    table, it was totally hardened, I couldn't bend it at all, but it still
    had the hair attached.  
    
    I never asked the vet whether I should do anything to the ear when the
    dead part fell off and since it clotted right away and she wasn't
    touching the ear, I didn't do anything.  Hopefully, it won't get
    infected or anything.  It's been several days and the ear looks the
    same.
    
    I have noticed that since she has had her own personal space heater,
    she is more sensitive to the cold.  The other evening, I had turned off
    the heater for a while when she was eating.  When she was done she came
    back and sat in her box in front of the turned off heater.  I nuked
    something in the microwave and as soon as she heard it turn on, she
    jumped over to the other counter and planted herself in front of the
    microwave for warmth and when the microwave shut off, she went back to
    her box.  She does still try to get outside once in awhile but it
    hasn't been very cold here (45 - 50 degrees).
    
    Caren