Conference misery::feline

    If it was me, I wouldn't hesitate to take her
    along.  

    I've been thinking more about it. Does anyone know what kind of drugs
    are given?  I don't want to give her anything too harmful, but it would
    have to be pretty strong to last. Do I have to force pills down kitty 
    more than once during this span of time? I have to call a different vet. 
    Her vet said some things that made me think he didn't know what he was 
    talking about.
    
    Would it be more humane to have someone adopt her for the two years
    we're away?

    Check the country you are going to for quarentine.  Also make sure you
    know the requirements (shots, certificates, etc...) for coming back
    into the U.S.

    
    Acepromazine (sp?) is a medication used by some vets.  My vet
    discourages the use of it because the side effects can be 
    much worse than the stress that the cat may experience.  
    
    

    what a tough decision! 
    
    Bumble Bea hates to travel, also, and the amount of stress she seems
    to experience when in the car always causes me concern.
    
    Does anyone have any experience with cats on planes? I'm supposing
    that pets (in carriers, of course) get handled by the same people
    who handle the luggage. And conventional wisdom dictates "no val-
    uables in your luggage!". Well, my girl is pretty precious to me!!
    
    Can anyone out there speak to the issue of safety for pets on airline
    flights? Are the carriers handled roughly? Are they treated with care
    when the owner is out of view????
    
    I don't mean to cause the base-noter too much concern, but placing my-
    self in her position, this is what I would be concerned about for
    Bumble Bea.
    
    
                                          Susan

    I haven't flown with my kitty, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere
    that (at least on domestic US flights) a cat carrier can be taken on
    board as a carry-on - many of them fit under an airline seat.  But they
    only accept one per flight, so first come first served.  At least the
    cabin is heated and kitty can hear your voice....
    
    Leslie

    When we moved to Germany from Indiana in 1977, we took two cats, one 
    of whom, Midnight, also hated to travel.  We drove from Indiana, and 
    didn't give her anything, Cinnamon was so mellow he didn't need
    anything.  She was not happy, and had actually rubbed her nose raw
    trying to get out of the flight cage, but arrived in good health.  They 
    needed only vet certificates of health to go over.  Coming back,
    Midnight was shipped in the same cage as Gypsy by a kennel that
    specializes in shipping animals, and there were no complications at
    all.  As far as I can tell, they received excellent treatment both
    ways.
    
    On a more recent note, my daughter shipped two cats to Panama when they 
    were transferred there and back two years later.  On the way down, the 
    cats definately got better treatment from the airlines than the people!
    There was a delay, and the connection was missed - the people were left 
    to fend for themselves, but the cats were taken to the vets to be
    checked and spend the night!  They got food and water, the people got 
    zip!  Coming back, I picked them up at Logan Airport, and the personnel
    seemed very concerned about the cats having been in the cage for so
    long, and had given them food and water.  This was three years ago. 
    
    The experience was good enough that they are now planning on taking two
    cats with them to Okinawa in a couple months.
    
    BTW, coming back into the U.S. has not been a problem in any of the
    cases I know of.
    
    Linda

    This reply isn't going to be an easy one to take:
    
    It seems that you are just concentrating on the journey.  
    There's more than just getting kitty to the other side to be 
    considered.  Hungry is not the USA; Vet. care isn't anything 
    like as good, neither do they have the fine selection of drugs 
    available to them.  You won't find the nice display of kitty food 
    like 9-Lives that you find at home (if it comes to that, the human 
    food isn't as nice and 9-lives either).  The journey may well kill 
    the cat, at the very best kitty will be scared to death alone in the 
    hold of the plane (and I believe that cats are not allowed in the cabin
    on international flights).  
    
    As 2 years is a long time in a cats life, and if you love your cat, 
    don't put your it through this.   Bid a warm goodbye and find
    kitty another home.	                                 --------
    ------------------
    

    Just to clear up some airlines misconceptions.  Most airlines allow
    cats in the cabin, but if you are worried about that, call the airlines
    that you are traveling on and ask them.  American allows 10 cats in the
    cabin at a time!  United only allows 2 cats in the cabin at a time. 
    Each airline has it's own set of rules.
    
    I have flown with cats quite a bit (sometimes as often as three times a
    month), and have put them in the cargo and the cabin.  Cats in the
    cargo are treated with respect.  They are not loaded like luggage, they
    are hand carried.  Airlines personnel are usually very interested in
    protecting your cat or dog.  I have never had a mishap.
    
    Jo

    
    
    I have some information on this.  My cousin moved to Seattle from
    Providence last month.  She has 4 cats.  She was terrified to move
    them, so I called my vet and he answered a bunch of questions for me.
    
    1) can a cat freeze to death in the belly of a plane, (where they
    get placed if you "check" them)?
    
    	They can get cold if there are long layovers or plane
    	switchings and they are handled wrong.  This is very rare.
    
    2) can you carry them on?
    
    	yes.  you pay $50 for your cat to fly and put them in a crate
    	which fits under your seat - (very small!).  It wiill be tight
    	for the cat, so give them kitty valium.  That's ok.
    
    3) is it save to give them kitty valium if they get "checked" with
    the baggage?
    
    	since drugging them slows down their responses, it also slows
    	their metabolism - hence their temperature too.  So for risky
    	flights - (through below freezing areas) it's not the best
    	idea.
    
    4) how common is it for cats to fly?
    
    	my vet shows his cats.  Every weekend he attends a show somewhere
    	and many people at these shows flew to get there.  Anyone he'd
    	talked to who had cat's small enough - carried them on.  People
    	with large cats, like Maine Coon Cats, checked them.  At these
    	cat shows he's NEVER heard of a cat freezing to death.
    
    My vet is the one listed in the note "My vet is SO nice..."  He
    is probably the perfect person to talk with/buy kitty valium from.
    He loves cat dearly and knows his stuff.  I trust him without a
    doubt.
    
    best of luck.  A good vet should also know about the vaccination
    requiremenets.
    
    Rachael
    

    
    
    I STRONGLY disagree with the person TELLING you to leave your
    cat.  Only you can make that decision.  For me, I value quality
    of life more than life.  If I had the choice of spending 2 years
    with my husband in a place where I might get really sick and maybe
    even die; I'd rather do that than live without him for that long.
    
    It's your cat - your life.  Whatever YOU feel is right, IS.
    
    

    Just a thought for you, as you make your decision as to what to do.  
    
    I got my wonderful cat Misty, because friends were moving back east and
    didn't want to take her since the other cats would be able to go
    outside, and she is declawed.  She has become my very special cat, and
    I am her special person.  Her previous home was a loving one, but of
    course I think she has even a better one now.  And I know I could never
    part with her or my other furfaces.  But I am very grateful to my
    friends for giving her to me.
    
    Talk with the airline about how your cat would have to travel.  Nat
    lives in Hungry, maybe he can give you some info about cat food and vet
    care there. 
    
    Good luck.
    
    Steffi
    
    

    
    I have had FABULOUS service from United.  My cats have flown coast to
    coast in the hold as well as in the cabin.  They are not thrown in with
    the luggage, they are in a climate controlled section.  If there was a
    layover for an extended period of time in freezing weather, the cat
    would be removed.
    
    A kitten that was sent to NY (from San Francisco) had a *5 hour*
    layover in Chicago due to inclement weather.  We could call and 800
    number and find out exactly where he was.  He was being held in a
    climate controlled and had been watered.
    
    You have to make the personal decision to take the cat.  A friend here
    is taking her 5 cats to Germany with her.  I would do the same thing.
    
    Re:food   I am sure that there are cats in HUNGARY and that they are fed.
    I would bring/ship whatever food your cat is eating now and then deal
    with your options when you get there.  Both you and your cat will be 
    dealing with dietary changes.  I'm sure you'll both make it through
    just fine...
    
    

        
    Well, Hungary is not the end of the world, you know. And it's quite
    nice a country to live in. I should know, 'cause I've been
    doing it for 23 years now. We've always had cats, and they haven't
    complained either :-).
    I got pretty upset when reading .8. Its author has never been to
    Hungary, which is not a problem, of course, but then s/he'd better not
    talking about and giving advice on something s/he doesn't know.  
    Not to mention the suggestion of giving up your cat... I don't call 
    that kind of treatment love.    

    Don't worry about our vets - they are just as good as in the states.
    You'll find quite some kind of catfood (Kitekat, Whiskas, Brekkies -
    these are the most common (imported) ones that comes to my mind) 
    and litter also. If you wish, I'll check out what other brands
    are available.
      
    Feel free to ask Nat or me ANYTHING you want to know. 
    (For information on quarantine-policy you'd better call the Hungarian 
     Embassy or Consulate, they should give you the most up-to-date 
     info.)


    Orsolya 

>    Hungry is not the USA; Vet. care isn't anything 
>    like as good, neither do they have the fine selection of drugs 
>    available to them.  You won't find the nice display of kitty food 
>    like 9-Lives that you find at home (if it comes to that, the human 
>    food isn't as nice and 9-lives either).  The journey may well kill 
>    the cat, at the very best kitty will be scared to death alone in the 
>    hold of the plane (and I believe that cats are not allowed in the cabin
>    on international flights).  
 
	This is one of the worst cases of scare-mongering I have ever
	read............I suppose not even being able to spell Hungary should
	be a warning sign - but many places are not like the USA, and happy
	to be that way.

	I have never known of a cat die in transportation, my brothers cat
	went from the UK to Canada, in the hold, with no adverse side affects,
	and this was an ex-ferrel who did not like boxes.

	What will make the most difference on the flight is the vet you see,
	and the care you take, BEFORE the cat leaves the US.

	Heather

    .11 and .15 
    
    My information came from someone who IS Hungarian and still has family
    there.  And I am not TELLING someone to leave their cat, but ADVISING 
    them to find it another home and not subject it to the flight, a piece 
    of advice that comes from someone who WORKS for American, and based on 
    his experiences of UNLOADING from the hold, would never ship a cat by air.
    
    I also object to being called a scare monger.  I don't like animals to
    be subjected to unnecessary treatment just to fill the emotional needs of
    the owners. 
    
    And as for the cheap-shot of not being able to spell Hungary, it's
    just a type'o that you see.  My typing isn't what it used to be due 
    to arthritis.
    
    I still maintain my stand, if it were me I would leave my kitty
    behind--and have done so as I didn't think it in the best interest of 
    my beloved Black Chap to be dragged across the pond.  He lived out his 
    life fat, sleek and very happily beside the Aga cooker in a Welsh farm 
    house.  If I had to make that choice again, I would and (again) break my 
    heart but I would do it if I had to.  
    
    NOTE:  The noter will not be responsible for typo's, mistakes, etc. as
    she is not going to proof this note but get back to her work.
                          

    
    
    NOTE TO ALL WRITERS:
    
    I am not a moderator, however disagreeing with someone is one thing;
    calling them names is another.  Everyone here loves cats - that's why
    we're here.  For someone to reply to a note, they must care about the
    issue.  Perhaps from this common ground we can respectfully disagree.
    
    By the same token, please keep in mind that the basenoter is obviously
    going through turmoil with the decision she has to make.  Accurate
    facts and compassionate phrasing are needed here.
    
    Rachael
    
    

    Darn, darn and double darn! I made a LONG reply here, and the net broke
    so it's lost! I try again...
    First, excuse me being late, for I just came back from a serious flu
    with about 40 degrees fever and so... I just could not reply earlier.
    
    Second, do not be angry with someone, who does her best to give you
    advice, even if the advice is a bit incorrect in some points. Look for
    the good will, not for eventual errors in it - or even typo's. I am
    sure that .8 meant it all good, and I am very happy to be able to
    correct her in some points. For as an extremely complex surgery (a
    kidney retransplantation e.g.) can not be made in Hungary, we have vets
    educated in more-hundred-years universities who know their job and love
    animals. You can get all medicaments you need, my Smokey gets every
    year a combinated Rhinopan shot (made in USA!!!) for about a 4$ (four
    dollars!) amount. The litter you use in the States comes mostly from
    Hungary: we have one of the biggest and purest natural zeolite treasure
    of the world. The Friskies, Whiskas, Sheba, Brekkies etc. dry and
    canned food you'll get on every corner, in every pet's shop or grocery.
    Your cat shall not make a very big difference being a State cat or a
    Hungarian cat... believe me. You'll have more trouble to get used to
    Hungary as your cat! But we all hungarian DECies help you...
    
    As for my 2 cents: I would ask the cat if s/he wants to travel. Putting
    the arms around you seems to say the cat wants travel... I would never
    let my Smokey alone, would take her. But it has to be YOUR decision,
    and .8 is evenso right saying do not, as am I saying do. I can give
    advice if you do: take the cat as a carry-on on your lap, if the flight
    company does not allow that, choose another flight company. But I think
    they'll allow it. I would not trust unknown people, even if all news
    are good about cats in the hold.
    
    Dial 798-5526 for me or send mail to egyed@bps in ALLIN1 or
    BPSOF::EGYED in VAXMail, I am ready to help you any way. Just meow for
    me and I am at Your service!
    
    Nat

    I want to thank EVERYONE for the input. I still haven't made the
    decision, but I certainly appreciate all opinions. I wanted to hear all
    sides of it, so please don't beat up anyone for offering an opinion.
    What we're talking about is emotional. If it was strictly a health or
    logistics issue, it would have been much easier.
    
    I'm still concerned that she is more tied to the house and her current
    lifestyle than to me. I haven't been home much in the last year, having
    lived in Australia for six months and back and forth to Hungary,
    lately. I left her in the house with a babysitter and she seemed fine.
    I'm almost inclined to continue this, but I am also deciding whether or
    not to sell the house. [That would completely undo the previous logic.]
    
    The other thing is apartment living vs. house living. The apartment we
    are leasing has a terrace, but I haven't checked if there's easy access
    down to anywhere. The building is on a busy street (Nat and Orsolya:
    what do you know about Zoldlomb?)
    
    I feel like I'm obsessing, now.
    
    Amy

For informing all the other Feliners: Orsolya and me are 'taking over' 
Amy with all her problems. I already contacted her on the phone, and we'll do
our best to make her feel home in Hungary, with cat or without.

Amy, keep head up. As far as I know *now*, the best is to leave kitty home and
pick a (or two) new one(s) up here :)! We wait for You with love.

Nat

    I, for one, am so glad we have Nat in FELINE.
    
    
                                         seh

    I really want to thank everybody, especially Nat and Rosemary, for all
    your assistance. I have decided not to take kitty with me for a number
    of reasons, so it looks like she will be needing a home. I have one
    fallback family. I should probably post this in the appropriate note,
    but I'll probably be looking for her to go into a single-kitty home as
    she doesn't seem to want to share her people with other kitties. And
    I'll be looking in the eastern/central Massachusetts area. Just in
    case, is there a note in here on introducing full grown cats into other
    cat families?
    
    If I don't get a new cat in Hungary I guess I'll just have to spend a 
    lot of time with Nat's family to get my fill of purrs and cuddles!
    
    I'm already getting sad about our separation (sniff)
    
    Amy        

    Amy, note 316 has advice on adding another cat.  We all wish you well
    in your adventure!

    I have some questions... I mailed them direct to Amy. 
    
    As for coming to me 'catting', is a good idea. Not only for Amy! Here
    goes:
    
    Any of you, spending time in Hungary, is welcome to me and Smokey to a
    Purrcerto (Word just invented, means purr-concerto). I can make a good
    coffee, can cook fine hot food, have good music and some bottles, too.
    Me & wife welcom any feliner!
    
    Nat

    RE: Nat, 
    
    Although I don't plan on visiting Hungary in the near future, I like
    the name of Purrcerto.  It kind of a coincidence.  A friend of mine has
    a cat named purrsymphony for the same reason (Purr me a symphony).
    
    Holly
    

    Nat, I think you're great.  Thanks for the invite.  I don't plan on
    going to Hungary in the near future either, but it's certainly nice to
    have a friendly feliner there just in case plans change.  What city do you 
    live in?  I've had the pleasure of meeting several international
    feliners and it's so much fun.  If you ever come to California, you
    must visit us and enjoy our "purrcerto".
    
    Steffi

    Ok, when are we all going to have a FELINEr gathering in Hungary at
    Nat's house? ;-)
    
    I'm also very happy and honored to have Nat with us! I love your notes
    Nat! I guess I must love you too. After all, you love furfaces, so
    what's not to love, right? ;-) Thanks for being with us!
    
    Also, good luck to the base noter on her adventure, and please know
    that you made the right decision for you, based both on your needs,
    and your kitties needs. My thoughts are with you, as you prepare to
    take the next steps in your life.
    
    Love,
    
    Yonee

    Re.: the few before,
    
    Well, lads 'n lasses, all invited! But first you have to build a runway
    on my back yard... for I do not know where to put the big jet to!
    
    And about honor? *I* am honored to be allowed to be among you! Meow!
    
    Nat

    I just wanted to thank everyone, again, and to let you all know that
    the kitty is doing fine with her new "mom" back in Massachusetts. Yes,
    I made the tough decision to leave her behind. She is living with an
    elderly woman who moved into a new house. They are turning into good
    companions for each other. I cried for a month, but I feel better now.
    Our new apartment in Budapest is so empty, not because there is no
    furniture yet, but because there is no little furface to greet me at
    the door or yell at me to feed her.
    
    We've thought about getting an apartment cat, but after reading the
    cats-jumping-off-balconies note, I don't think it's such a good idea.
    Also, in two years I would have to face that tough decision again. I
    have seen a lot of cats in my neighborhood. Maybe I'll just go outside
    and make some friends!
    
    By the way, Nat is only two offices away from mine and has already
    shown me a picture of his beautiful Smokey!
    
    Amy

    A small black female abandoned thing as 'lost cat' seems to have found
    Amy. My colleaguein (sp?) Orsolya found the blackie, who probably shall
    be named Szaffi (pron 'suffy') which is a Hungarian fairytale figure, a
    good witch's daughter who was turned into a black kitty for saving her
    for wicked men.
    
    I suppose Amy shall make an update post here.
    
    Nat