Conference misery::feline

    
    	I'm interested in what other suggestions there may be, also. 
    	My 4 are on c/d because squeeky has bladder stones and sara
    	gets uti's if you say boo to her. However, no matter how little
    	I give them, they are all getting FAT on it, and it's too
    	expensive for me to keep them on long term. I heard a commercial
    	on the radio yesterday for [purina?] a store brand for cats
    	with FUS.
    
    	Sherry [squeeky, sara, katie, punkin]
    

    My cats were all on c/d for this reason for a long while.  Now they get
    w/d instead because it helps to control Sweetie's diabetes;  I forgot
    to ask the vet if w/d was as helpful as c/d for preventing urinary
    problems, but, just as a data point, they have been on it quite awhile
    without problems.  I "think" it's less fattening.
    
    I do remember that the vet also gave me the name of 3 or so other canned
    foods that were okay, some specific flavors of Friskies, I think (not
    all flavors).  You might ask him.
    
    (Tough it out with the begging;  things will get better as they adjust.
    I know we're all used to spoiling our babies, but you can spoil them
    with hugs and cuddles instead.)
    

    I've found that the kitty treats bring on almost instant FUS attacks,
    but I have a real hard time saying NO to the FIRM. So, what I do when I
    want to give them a between meal snack is to give them a couple of C/D
    morsels. (I feed the dry C/D).
    
    If you are looking for somthing other than "prepared snacks", I've had
    no problems with boiled chicken (not turkey). My Kostas, who blocks
    real easily and is on daily acidifiers along with the C/D likes
    vegtables. So, every night he gets puried tomaotes or string beans or
    cauliflower or broccolli. (It helps keep him regular, too).
    
    Deb
    
    P.S. Karen, Whiskas non-organ meat canned varieties are also OK for
    FUS cats; seems that they produce a more acidic urine that helps
    prevent the crystals in the urine.

    For variety, I was also going to suggest vegetables mixed in with the 
    tinned food. 
   
    Re the cat getting fat (.1, I think), one of my cats put on weight when 
    she was having treatment for a skin problem. My vet suggested mixing some 
    bran in with her food.

    June.

    I've been having a tough time with my two.
    
    Mittens has had 2 uti's in the past three months.  I had both
    Mits and Peaches on Iams and unfortunately his uti came back.
    So Mits is now on Hill perscription diet (small bag, big money).
    But, now Peaches won't eat the Iams!  She wants the Hills too!
    The vet had informed me that this food could put weight on
    Mits, but it hasn't, but Peaches is blowing up like a balloon!
    
    What's a girl to do with two cats and two different kinds of
    food being recommended.  Is there something that's FUS safe
    but is not a weight increaser?  This ordeal is getting very
    expensive!
    
    Cindy
    
    

    I switched to IAMS some time back after two of my cats had recurrent
    problems (Scooter ran up quite a tab at Tufts, on the weekend, of
    course). They all have been eating it for some time with no problems. I
    mix in canned catfood for variety and ignore begging (except when I'm
    preparing chicken...they love it). I now get the IAMS for "mature" cats
    (read fat) since one is a porker. It took them awhile to get used to
    it, but they did.  My vet advised waiting on the Purina dry chow for
    urinary problems until it had been out longer and tested thoroughly. It
    was the regular Purina that caused our problems in the first place.
    
    Anne

    RE: .5
    
    Cindy,
    
    I noticed that you said, "small bad, big bucks." Boy, do I know about
    the "big bucks." My cats only eat Hill's CD. (I almost lost one of my
    babies from FUS last summer/fall.) You may want to try buying the
    larger size bags. I buy the 20 lb. bag. It's less expensive than the 
    small bag. My vet charges $30 or $32 for the 20 lb. bag.
    
    Deb 

    
    
    One thing that turns an old boring dish into a new one, is to
    throw a little bit of water on it and stick it in the microwave.
    That makes the oils in the food sort-of seep out and it will smell
    much more appetizing to the animal.  A word of warning, however.
    don't nuc it too long and don't serve it fresh out of the 
    microwave - wait like a minute or so till it's warm to the touch.
    (sometimes the inside or bottom of the dish gets scalding hot.)
    This works equally well for cats and dogs.  
    
    In addition, have you looked into Science Diet or Fromm's?  They 
    are both supposed to be low in ash and the packages should be 
    marked with ash amounts.  So maybe you could compare them to your
    percription food.
    
    good luck!  I swear by heating the food up - Linus will like it
    much better!
    
    Rachael
    

    Re: I've found that the kitty treats bring on almost instant FUS attacks,
    
    
    Pounce does this to my cats.  It's amazing how fast it causes this.
    

    
    Another thought.  I just read all the other replies.  
    
    One of my cats can get really fat.  Pet Source, the place where I
    buy my food, told me that dry food is actually more fattening than
    wet food.  So, maybe if there's a wet food alternative to this
    perscription stuff, you could try that.
    
    Also, if you're interested in pampering your cat, and if you
    believe in giving your cat drugs, you could give him catnip.
    That would make him happy.  The fresh stuff in the huge
    white containers has the best results. (catnip seems to get old
    pretty fast.)
    
    Rachael
    

    
    
      Depending on how much you eat the same foods, what I did in the 
    past for Sylvester who had the start of a blockage, was I used to make
    beef stew, with veggies (bland) and I used to give him that mashed
    up, but at the time I ate that alot, I would make a big pot on the
    weekends and eat it throughout the week, with Sylvester (my vet had
    recommended me doing this, if I wanted to do the extra cooking), then I
    gave him different foods that I buy at a place called Bread & Circus, 
    it's a Health grocery store.  I was very fortunate as it never came
    back again.
    Now i'm dealing with another issue with my Domino who either has a flea
    allergy or food allergy, so i'm now making chicken stew and feeding him
    this to keep him away from meats to see if it's food related (I too am
    eating this stew).
    
    Wishing you luck.
    
    Diana

      my gang gets the Special Care by Purina you can get in a grocery
    store.  It seems to be fine.  Everyone loves it, even the ones who
    aren't having FUS problems.  They don't get fat and it's cheaper.
    Iams was the only other brand readily available in my area during the
    time I was looking for brands, and they all turned into butterballs
    and still had FUS!  Haven't had problems at all now.
    
      

    Re: 3
    
    Deb,
    
    What daily acidifiers does you cat get?  I was giving Linus Vit. C, but
    when the vet gave me the c/d dry food he said to stop that.  I actually
    think that's why Linus got blocked this time, because he didn't eat
    enough of the dry c/d...he prefers wet food.
    
    Also, both of my cats are really into this s/d food as long as I
    microwave it.  Thank God for that.  I do think I'm giving out too much,
    though because I'm not used to the big cans.  I do still want to give
    them a variety of choices, though.  I feel so bad because Li still
    begs, and he must think he's being punished or something because he
    doesn't get his snax anymore.  I'm back to the vet tomorrow and will be
    asking him more about this anyway.  Although he didn't have many
    options for me the first time I went.
    
    Linus finally doesn't seem to be straining as much since last night. 
    He had strained so hard that it looked like he was getting hemmoroids
    or something.  It was strange because his stool has been really soft
    too.  He seems to be a bit more comfortable this morning...it has been
    an awefully long week watching him.  I hope this never happens again!!
    
    Thanx for the tips,
    
    Di & Li & Lu_who_could_care_about_food_anyway

    Kostas is getting ethcloride; it is either a purple or maroon pill
    (depending on the lot).
    
    Normally, you shouldn't give a cat on C/D acidifiers because C/D has an
    acidifier in it. But Kostas was blocking regularly, and quickly,
    dispite only eating dry C/D, puried tomatoes and drinking lots of
    water. Dispite that, his urine ph was more alkline than normal. The
    combination of acidifiers and the C/D was a last resort, and it has
    been a while now since he blocked; he is doing great. Unfortunatly, it
    takes 2 acidifiers per day to keep him normal, but he pills very
    easily. Also, it is not causing his urine to be so acidic that it burns
    him to urinate (it seems that the C/D and acidifier combo stablizes him
    to a normal ph).
    
    I should add that before thanksgiving I had a horrible flu and didn't
    pill Kostas for a couple of days and sure enuff, he was showed me that
    urinating was becoming uncomfortable.
    
    Deb
    
    

    Re: .13
    
    Do try giving Li extra hugs when he begs.
    

    Went to the vet Sat. and they gave me the following list of foods that
    cats with FUS can eat:
    
    Canned	Hill's c/d
    		Science Diet, Feline Growth
    		Friskies Buffet Beef & Liver
    		Kal Kan (Whiskas) Mealtime
    		Friskies Buffet Turkey & Giblets
    		Cadillac F
    		Cornocopia Super Stars Plain
    
    Never heard of the last two...where do you get that?
    
    Dry
    
    Hill's c/d dry
    Science Diet Feline Growth
    Iams
    
    Now, I went and bought the canned c/d, science diet, friskies, and kal
    kan...but the weird thing is the science diet maintenance light seems
    to have less ash and stuff than the kind I bought.  Also, Triumph beef
    & liver has less stuff in it than the friskies and whiskas.  Now, I'm
    confused...maybe this is an old list or something.  I'm going to call
    him and ask why they picked those items.  They must go by the ash
    readings I assume.  To me the whiskas one seemed really high, but I
    don't recall it right now.
    
    What I did too was cook up some lean hamburg and beef liver (from the
    prescription diet I got), and I'll give Li that as a little snack.  He
    does love that a lot too.  I really hate cooking liver though 8>( ...
    
    When I went to the pet store, they had the cutest garfield bed for
    kitties, so I bought one for Linus.  Got home and Lula jumped right in
    and claimed it!!  It actually would be a tight squeeze in there for
    Linus anyway...  Well, he got his favorite furry mouse toys anyway.
    
    Di & Li & Lu_who_loves_garfield

    Di,
    
     Make sure you check the Magnesium level on the cans/bags as well as
    the ash content. The Magnesium content is as/more important than the
    ash content. I think it's sort of a combo fo the two that makes
    something low ash. I have seen foods that say low ash that have a
    higher ash content than others, but a lower Magnesium level. I try to
    find the lowest content of both of these when I buy low ash for the
    shelter. I think I ended up with IAMS dry, if I remember correctly.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Yonee

    And the ash content in wet vs dry catfood is important because
    if the cat eats a lot of dry and doesn't intake enough water...
     

Cornucopia  Super Stars are available at most health food
stores. This is what I fed Bumble Bea before I started making
her food. She likes them so much, I use tham for occasional
treats.


                                     Susan

    Hi, I have a question about my male cat, or male cats in general.  I
    know that a lot of dry food can cause them to have urinary tract
    blockages or infections.  I feed my Hercules (stupid name, as he was so
    tiny when I named him and is now 17 lbs...I didn't want him to grow
    THAT big!) regular canned and for dry food I give him the C/D brand from 
    the vet.  It's not really dry, meaning crunchy, and his teeth are showing 
    it.  Hence the question:
    
    Is there a safe dry food for him that's cheaper?  Like Iams or Science
    Diet?
    
    I bought a trial size bag of cat treats from Pounce, they're small (�")
    sized really crunchy things that say they're tartar control for cats
    because cats don't brush.  Could these things cause him problems at
    all?  Any info would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Karen

    
    Hi there,
    
    I have four neutered males and I feed them both IAMS and Max Cat
    and so far I've had no problems.  However, some cats are more
    prone to these infections than others, so you just never know.
    I only feed dry food, no wet at all, and I just make sure there's
    plenty of water available for everyone.....
    
    Nancy

    There is some controversy as to whether dry food actually helps keeps
    ats teeth tartar free.  Also, Pounce brings on urinary tract symptoms
    in some cats.  Mebbe ask your vet what s/he thinks?
    

    Is Hercules on the C/D in order to control a urinary tract problem?  If
    so, then you may want to just leave him on that, or at least check with
    your vet before switching him to something else.  C/D is a prescription
    food that can only be purchased from the vet.
    
    Jo

    No, Hercules has never had a UTI.  But when I asked my vet what kind of
    dry food I could give him, because I knew dry food and males cats
    produce the UTI tendency,  he suggested the C/D.  Would Herc be just as
    safe on Iams or some other GOOD dry food (not store brands)?  If he
    would and Iams is cheaper (which I am assuming it is) I'd just as soon
    have him on that.   I'll also stop the pounce.  It's only a treat and I
    was giving him one a day, but if it's too much then I'd rather not risk
    him being in pain.
    
    K.

    
    If he's never had a UTI, then I would probably experiment.  I remember
    Nancy DC (a former FELINER) had a boy-cat that was very prone to UTI's
    and she had great success feeding him MAXcat dry.  She said she had
    no problems with it at all and that he really loved it.
    
    At Pet Supply Depot, I buy 20 lbs of the MAXcat for about $22-$23
    dollars.
    
    I remember when I was buying the Science Diet, at the recommendation
    of my vet, I was paying that much for 10 lbs.   He sold it, and
    recommended it, but I always wondered if the reason he pushed it so
    hard was because he may have gotten a percentage of the sale?  I would
    never say the same for the special diets (C/D, R/D, W/D etc) because
    often they are absolutely required, but if your cat has never had a
    UTI, then I wouldn't tend to be so strict.  No supermarket brands,
    but I would think IAMS and Maxcat would be fine.
    
    N

	what about Iams canned and Meow Mix dry for a young male
	and a 15 year old female ?

	I was giving the kitten (he'll be a year in April) Iams
	canned AND dry, but when he's roaming the house, he'll
	often go upstairs and start eating the female's meow
	mix - she's a VERY finicky eater and so far, she's doing
	the best (eating wise) since we started the Iams canned
	for both of them and give her the MM dry along with it.

	BTW, if it matters at all, they are both "fixed".

    I have 6, 4 neutered males and 2 spayed females.  They
    all eat Kit n Kaboodle, Meow Mix and Maxcat dry, and 9-lives, Alpo etc.
    canned.  Most of them prefer the Kit n Kaboodle or Meow Mix to
    the Maxcat......
    
    Lynne 

    
    A quick suggestion for Hercules;
    
    	1) brush his teeth.  your vet should sell toothpaste for
    	cats.  They get used to it.  Use a childs toothbrush and give
    	them a treat of some kind afterwards - they won't mind.
    
    	2) My cat's like Science Diet Lite.  I have one neutered male
    	and one spayed female.  They've been on the Science Diet for
    	4 years - 1 year of Kitty and 3 years of "fat cat".  He's had
    	no problems.  When I first bought Science Diet I looked at the
    	ash content and it seemed good at the time.
    
    Rachael
    PS:  here's how to brush their teeth
    	-get on the floor on your knees
    	- put the cat between your legs and under your rear-end facing
    	the same way you are
    	-( tell him he's great)
    	-in one hand hold the toothbrush with paste already on it
    	-( have treat can visible and ready)
    	-grasp cats face
    	-press your finger and thumb in gently at the joint in his mouth
    	-when he opens his mouth stick if in and just try to wipe it once
    	on most of his teeth.
    	(it's an enzyme so the toothpaste will do the work - don't worry
    	about scrubbing.)
    	- say "good kitty" millions of times and quick get him a treat
    	pet him lots and try to stay calm through the whole thing.  I 
    	got my cats used to this once a week - just like trimming their
    	nails and combing their fur.
    

    I wasn't sure where to put this note where feliners could find
    it...so I thought this was the best place.
    
    I received a copy of Feline Recipes for Home-made Diets which was
    published by Hills Pet Products.  The following recipes are on this
    one page document:
    
       Feline Restricted Protein Diet  - Similar to KD
    
       Feline Reducing Diet - Similar to RD
    
       Feline Hypoallergenic Diet - 
    
       Feline Restricted Mineral and Sodium Diet - Similar to CD
    
       Feline Liquid Diet - (uses Hills PD as base)
    
    If anyone would like a copy of this please send me a note off-line!
    Willee::merritt
    
    Sandy
    

         Okay, here's a good question for you folks.  For 4 years we have
    had the kitties on Science Diet W/D because of Loki's diabetes.  It
    worked well; everyone ate it and was happy with it.
    
         Now Loki is hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) and it's a struggle to
    keep weight on him.  So the W/D is out (mostly).  We now have a
    household with three cats:
    
         Loki - needs to put on weight, but had FUS problems several years
    ago, is almost 14, eats wet or dry no problem.
         Midnight - is okay on weight (maybe even a bit over), is almost 5, 
    will *not* eat dry food, but only wet.
         Bigfoot - is okay on weight, though he could still put on an extra
    pound, is almost 17, eats wet or dry no problem.
    
         Our vet suggested using Friskies Senior instead of the W/D, but
    Bigfoot is getting diarrhea from it (not bad, he still acts okay, just
    has soft stools).  Her next suggestion is to try some 9-Lives Chicken &
    Rice or Beef & Rice food, to see if that will help.
    
         I was wondering if there was any Science Diet (regular or
    prescription) variety that would be good for maintaining or putting on
    weight, but not hard on Bigfoot's insides.  I know the C/D will pile on
    the pounds, but will Bigfoot's digestive tract be able to take it?  Is
    there a "senior" type of Science Diet?
    
         They are also on Blue Seal dry (which works well with the boys),
    but Midnight refuses to eat it.  She'll eat the W/D (which I put out in
    the morning), and Bigfoot eats some of it too, but if I put out the
    Friskies he'll go for that instead (just like me, eat the "bad" stuff
    and pay for it later ;^) ).  Midnight and Loki both eat the Friskies
    and both seem to be handling it okay, I just feel so sorry for Bigfoot
    and would rather not tempt him with "bad" (for him) stuff.
    
         So is there a SD that I can try?
    
    					- Andrea

I've been feeding mine Science Diet Maintenance, which they'll eat though they
don't seem to consider it high cuisine.

There are several prescription foods from Hill besides c/d and w/d.  You might
want to ask your vet for a recommendation.  My understanding is that c/d and
especially w/d do not make good long-term diets for cats, as they're incomplete 
alone.  The normal Science Diet foods I'm aware of are: Growth (for kittens and
pregnant cats), Maintenance (for most of a cat's life), and low cal, which I
forget what it's called and is like Maintenance w/o the grease.  At least, the
low cal version doesn't leave spots on brown paper bags, and Maintenance does.

There are now some Science Diet canned foods which are in the "Maintenance"
catagory but which have different flavors: beef, chicken, and seafood.  My cats
will eat any of those, but they don't seem particularly eager.  And, myself, I
can live w/o the results of feeding a cat anything with "seafood" on the label.

Another thing to try is IAMS.  My cats won't eat it, but some cats will.  From
what I've learned from talking with other cat keepers, it seems as though cats
will like either IAMS or Science Diet, but not both. :-,

If you've got a cat which won't eat dry, you can feed dry to the cats which will
eat it, and canned to the cat(s) who won't.  It seems to me that this gives you
a certain amount of control.

    Andrea,
    
    this doesn't answer the Science Diet variety question, but but to pack
    a few pounds on Loki, you might ask your vet about something called
    Nutra-Cal (I think). It is a "highly palatable, low volume, high
    calorie nutritional supplement". It comes in a tube, and if you squeeze
    out about an inch, that is about 100 calories; 3 inches would provide
    enough calories for a cat in a day.
    
    Anyhow, it has worked wonders on several of my cats that needed help
    putting on weight after being severely ill. In fact, Jimmy (my
    diabetic) was give this shortly after being diagnosed to bring his
    weight back to the 13 lb mark. (Part of the problem was that w/d isn't
    very caloric, and he curren't eats Purena Mature, which like Friskies
    Senior, is a "light" or low fat food).
    
    hope this helps,
    Deb 

    You may want to check out the labels on the Nutro/Max cat products.
    They have several and I have had very good luck with it.  They also
    have one that is made for the overeater.
    Karen

    CD and WD are nutritionally complete -- SD (Stone diet, not
    to be confused with science diet) is not nutritionally
    complete.  I have one thin cat, one ok cat, and one ah robust
    cat.  They all prefer dry food to canned.  I mix varying portions of
    WD and CD in their dishes, so that the thin one gets more CD, etc.
    So far they seem not to have twigged to this :-)
    
    Sweetie and Holly are in their teens somewhere, Little Bit is under
    ten I think (bad Mommy, not to remember :-)              

         Thanks for the suggestions.  I have an appointment on 10 June for
    all three (Loki and Midnight for physicals/shots/the works, Bigfoot for 
    a recheck), so I will ask our vet about Nutrical then (unless it looks
    like Loki's lost more, I have to weigh him sometime this week).
    
         I did get the 9-Lives xx-and-rice varieties.  Last night tried the
    chicken and rice; Loki liked it, Bigfoot liked it, Midnight ate it but
    kept looking at me as if to say "I'm only eating this because I have to
    and I'm hungry, but it isn't very tasty".  No stools this morning when
    I left, so don't know if this worked out better.
    
    					- Andrea