Conference misery::feline

    If you want to keep the cats fenced in, the fence will have to be alot
    higher than 4'!  I had a declawed cat (who wasn't very agile) who had
    no problem jumping up a 4' fence, but anything higher would keep him
    in.  Personally, if I had the option, I would build a screened in cat
    run so the cats could enjoy the sun and outdoors without the dangers of
    being attacked by other animals or people, or being hit be a car.
    
    As for getting them used to the outdoors, take them out on supervised
    trips at first gradually giving them their freedom when you feel that
    they can find their way home.  You might also want to teach them to
    come to your call.  I did this with my kittens in about a week, and
    they come running every time.  First, pick a special sound (mine is a
    sort of cooing noise that's loud but not obnoxious) that other people 
    won't make by accident.  Then, every time you give the kitties a treat
    make that sound.  They'll catch on real soon that when you make that
    sound they get a treat, and they'll come running.  Just make sure that
    every time you make that sound, you give them a treat or at least some
    extra attention and a snuggle.
    
    Good luck,
    Michelle

    If your plan is to have the fence so the kitties won't get out
    of the yard...you best build a complete fenced in area with a roof!
    Cats can climb any type of fencing...if they really want to!!
    Another idea...which I have heard of...but not seen... is to build
    a pretty high fence and have the top bowed inwards and the part that
    is bowed should be covered with aluminum.  That way kitty slides if
    he tries to escape.
    
    As far as learning to use the "big outdoor sandbox" vs a kitty litter. 
    Well...easier said then done.   I have two indoor/outdoor kitties that cry
    at the door to come in...just to use the litterbox!!
    
    Prior to introducing them to the outside, I suggest that you keep them
    in your new home for atleast one month...so they can get use to that
    and understand that is home.   Then I would start slowly by having
    supervised outside visit for a short time each day.
    
    Good luck..and congrats on your new home!!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    Hi.. My name is Gayle and i'm pretty new to this conference.  But I
    have a adult cat named Boogaloo she is very smart and is declawed 
    we live on 30 acres and she stays right a home. We feed her in the
    house and she comes in only to eat. I taught her to go out side by 
    putting the litter box right outside the (back) door and I would watch
    her and put her out each time for about a week. pretty soon I took 
    more and more litter away. She is now more out side than in but when
    the weather is bad she is in.  But still crys to go out for "business"
    I really wanted to teach her to go in the toliet but...oh well she acts 
    like our dogs not like a cat. 
    
    We used to live in town and she was fine there to.  They get use to
    there area and they don't wander much if they are spayed/netuered. 
    Cats are very smart and they know who feeds them they love the outdoors 
    they get to graze,play in the grass etc...
    
    have fun...
     
    
    Gayle
    

    
    Take the cats litter and place it outside..where you want him/her to do
    it's duty!  Under some bushes...and such...and show the cat where it's
    litter is now...that is what I did with mine.  She was allway an indoor
    for 5yrs..I moved and I could let her out and I sprinkeld her litter
    under a tree and she allwasy goes in that one spot now.
    
    Lou

    Mine used to come home to use the box. Then one day I guess he went in
    the pine straw since I was not around to let him and in, and he
    thought, wow this is not bad.  Now he only goes outside.  Once in a
    while he uses the box for emergencies.  I remember that when he first
    went out I would go out with him and then keep him by.  He would stick
    by the house mostly.  Then he learned about the woods across the
    street.  That was fine, my neighbors could watch him.  The he learned
    that he could wander down the woods and get to the house where other
    indoor/outdoor cats lived and he could play there.  What is real 
    funny is that he is now back to spending more time around the house.  
    At one point it got bad when he would not come home until 4am!  boy I can 
    remember that everytime he stayed out later than previously I thought he 
    was a goner.  We are in a good routine now.  He goes out at 6 am, comes
    in around 7-8 for food, goes back out.  Waits for me between 5 yto 7,
    goes back out, and in by 10ish or so via latenight snack and treat.
    
    
    Now I dont worry as much.

    Thank's all for the replies, and keep em comin! All good stories and
    idea's, especially the "sprinkle the litter one"! I also sent away for
    a broecure about this cat fence. It has a type of netting that is
    supported on top of the fence and tilts in. Pretty expensive, but could
    be duplicated cheaper. See i aslo have my puppy also. (actually 14mo.)
    He is a small Keeshond and gets along great with the cats. Can cats 
    really climb chain link fences? Like even 6'. Thank's Again! BR*

    I saw a cat take an 8 foot fence in one bound a few days ago.
    

    And my Kyra can jump from the floor to the top of the door with no
    problem.
    
    Holly
    

    I have made my kitten an outdoor cat with no problems except for one.
    The darn neighbors little boys were bringing my kitten to their house
    to play and I didn't know it until I went nuts trying to find the thing
    when I got home from work one day.  Well, I called across the street
    where the neighbors live and lo and behold the cat was there !!! I was
    bull.  Well, needless to say the cat now has a habit of going over
    there and last week I kept calling, and calling...you got it.  Back
    across the street to those rotten kids!  Only, I didn't know it.  There
    was a knock on my door and it was a man that lives on the other street
    across from the neighbor.  Apparently they let the cat in the back door
    which faces another street and the cat ran in the other people's garage
    and met with a rottweiler.  I have told these people time and again,
    don't play with the cat, and now I'm always wondering if the thing's
    going to be dead in the road when I get home.  
    
    So...don't let the neighbors lure your new outdoor cats to their house
    or you'll be in for trouble.

    Alternatively, keep the cat inside.
    

    Ya kids can be a real nucence. I have would never have any myself, and
    may people who can't handle thier kids, like in that situation,
    shouldn't either. Some want kids and are good parents/trainers. I would
    stick to the pets myself. Kids around where I live now run up to my 
    leashed puppy and run away yelling "he bit me! He bit me! The police
    came to my apt one night and wanted to take my dog away. They said some
    kid, across the highway, said that your little dog (keeshond) bit her.
    This kid was probably just looking for attention from her parents. I
    had to fight to prove that my dog is an indoor dog, and that I only
    take him out on his leash! Pain in the *** kid. Swore up and down, yep
    thats the dog that bit me. Of course there was no mark, but she went to
    the hospital cause the dog sprained her rist. Police believed it! Then
    again, this is boony Boxboro. Don't get me wrong I don't hate kids, but
    to me they wouln't be worth the aggrevation. BR*

A friend of mine recently had to convert an indoor cat to an outdoor cat due
to hostilities among the 4-cat household.  The now outdoor cat, Heidi, is
happy and her 3 siblings are happy.  And Mom is happy cause the disturbed
cat is no longer peeing around the house!!!  

However, she's worried about what happens when winter gets here.  Is the
garage going to be enough shelter?  I'm sure some cats don't mind the cold
and some do.  Has anyone ever had success with a heated "cat house" in
the garage?  If Heidi has to come in during the coldest of the cold,
they will have to keep her separated from everyone and they hate to do
that but it's better than upsetting Bambi, who takes out her anxiety
by peeing! (ya know, one of those tempermental siamese types...)

Appreciate any suggestions!

  -Wendy

>                   <<< Note 345.12 by TOOLS::WENDYL::BLATT >>>
>                -< How to keep cats relatively warm in winter? >-

get a small, enclosed space in which the cat can build up body temp to
keep it warm.  There are many tiny "igloo-shaped" insulated plastic
dog-houses which work perfectly well.  The smallest version of a
DOGLOO brand dog house would be perfect.  If you call local pet
supply stores, you can find a vendor locally - ask them to get the
smallest model they carry and you are home free.  Keep a dry towel
in the bottom of the dog house and the cat can burrow in and stay
warm.  To tempt the cat into the house, simply place a favorite
snack in the house and the cat will go in and find out it is safe...
after that, general feline wisdom will take over.  If it gets
really cold, have her leave several towels in the house - and change
them as often as needed to keep them dry.

I recommend the dogloo brand because the house is made of insulated
plastic material - no place for fleas to hide and leave eggs.  It
cleans up with a hosing and drains/dries very quickly.  It is absolutely
rain-proof if your turn the entry toward the house and leave the
dogloo just a foot or so out from the wall - no rain will enter, 
although a small house should fit in the garage very easily.

    Well, it depends on where you live!  Here in New Hampshire, cats can
    survive OK in the winter, provided they have adequate shelter from the
    wind and weather.  If Heidi can get in and out of the garage whenever
    she wants, she'll be smart enough to do just that.  However, in the
    coldest of weather, such as during a storm, I think she should be kept
    in so that she doesn't come into harm's way.
    
    More importantly is how she's going to get food and water.  Water
    freezes quickly in the winter, as does food.
    
    I dunno, but I hate to see an animal left out in the winter.  But if
    she has free access to the gargage so she can come and go as she
    pleases, she might be OK.
    
    Mary

one caveat about the dog house - you may need to collar your cat and
put in a controlled cat flap in the garage door to prevent other critters 
from taking over the dog house and keeping the cat out in the cold...they
are all cold out there - and without controlled access you could be harboring
a skunk rather than the cat you want to protect.

second caveat - on cold days, always hit the hood of the car several times
PRIOR to starting the engine - an outdoor cat will seek heat and a car
engine is a nice warm place to nest.  They die horrible deaths this way
every day of cold weather....make it a habit to scare any cats away from
the engine before starting the car if you know outdoor cats are running
around.

and, finally, yes, cats will freeze if denied shelter - they aren't
any more capable of withstanding the cold than any other warmblooded
critter - you must make sure they have shelter they can keep warm with
their own bodyheat or the coldest days will kill them.

    Re: .13
    
    I try to make cozy places for the outdoor cats around my place, but
    there seems to be a factor that I haven't quite figured out -- it has
    to be a place where the cat feels safe, and I'm not sure exactly what
    the Design Criteria are for that -- opening with a good view of the
    surrounding territory?  opening hidden? etc.....
    

    THe barn cats we have find shelter in the barn, of course.  As long
    as they get out of the wet and wind, they do real well.  ALthough we
    almost lost Buster The Cat to an upper respitory infection....poor guy!
    
    ANyway, we have horse blankets all over the place and the cats always 
    find them and are always cuddled up in them.  Water is a problem...it
    always freezes.  Dry food dosen't freze. 

    Karen...they love high areas where they can look down at the
    world.  We have a shed and it has a loft.  My former strays found
    alot of comfort sitting in the loft with a birds-eye view of the
    lower part of the shed...as well as a good view of outside.  
    
    I have kept boxes with hay and big warm comforters that they can
    snuggle in.  I use to place the boxes upside down...and cut a very
    small entrance way.    Of course they are all indoor/outdoor cats 
    now...so NOBODY will even go near the shed!!
    
    To the original noter...on very cold stormy nights...would it be
    possible to put the cat in the basement.  I use to hate the thought
    of seeing my strays/ferals standing in the yard with ice hanging
    off of them and frost-bit ears!!  Other then those very cold nights...
    kitty should be okay with the shelter she builds them!!
    
    Sandy
      

    My barncat has a cat carrier for a bed that has the door
    removed.  It has a thick, snuggly blanket on the inside, 
    and is wrapped on the outside with an old blanket to close
    off *most* of the airholes.  She loves it, and it was low
    cost!  
    
    There are these heatable mats available that are used in dog
    kennels.  I saw them in the RC Steele catalog.  They run on
    electricity, I think, so that's why I don't use one in the
    barn (horse hazard! (: ) but it would work well in a garage.
    They weren't cheap, if I remember, tho'.....

    I made Eddie Haskell a sleeping bag for the porch. On colder days, he
    cuddles into that. Course, he sleeps inside at night. I've just adopted
    two barn cats earlier this summer. They have the entire barn, and I'm
    going to make sleeping bags for them, too, before the weather gets
    cold. I shut them in the barn at night so I don't have to worry about
    racoons, foxes, and coyotes (yes, my husband spotted a coyote in Mont
    Vernon, NH, this summer). So far, they like the arrangement.
    
    ng

    
    Another neat "kitty nest" idea....
    
    I have an indoor/outdoor cat, and a screened porch with a cat door.  If
    I can't get the little guy in before I go to work, he goes into the
    porch when he's ready.  I leave him a thick cardboard box with a wool 
    blanket and a Hot Seat.
    
    You can buy a "hot seat" (or you could 6 years ago) for about $10.00 at a
    sporting goods store.  They are about 1 ft. diameter seats:  good for
    hockey/football game bleachers or whatever.  Your body heats it 
    up (I used to keep one in my truck).  Wrap it up in a thick enough 
    blanket so kitty won't tear it when he/she "makes a nest". I have no 
    idea what it's made of, so I wouldn't chance him ripping it open....  
    
    Cheryl

    I have a problem of a different sort, and since this notes file is
    so good with answers I am hoping for at least some positive input.
    We have a good routine at our house.  Chief bangs on the vertical
    blinds at 6 am and we go downstairs he grabs a quick bite and goes
    out. He may come back in when my husband leaves for work and I let me
    out again until we come home around 7ish. The garage is cracked to
    let him in and out and we keep food and water there. Here in Atlanta
    during the day it always has gone above freezing and most of the time
    in the 40's and 50's.  On weekends when we are home he comes in and
    out more frequently.  He is always in at night this time of year.
    The problem I have relates to his littering.
    	He will hold it in.  THe other day it was raining in the morning,
    so I went home for lunch to check on him.  On most rainy days he will
    still go out to do his duty. This time I kept him in.  By 2 pm
    it had been about 20hours since he was last out and nothing in the
    litter box.  I have tried to put him near it. He just meows. Do
    I need to put pinestraw in the box. Before he was going outside he
    always used his box.  What really worries me is that I am going away
    for a week and the people that watching him are really good with him,
    but I dont expect them to go out of their way.  In bad weather I am
    going to suggest that they keep him in. It could mean a day or two
    before going outside. Will he keep it in?  Is that unhealthy for him?
    Will he eventually go if he really has to?  Right now, with me around
    he knows he will go out in the morning and at night, and will go 
    quickly in slow to med rain.  How can I train him to reuse the litter
    box?  I am even cutting my vacation short for him (is that a cataholic
    or what).  Has anyone else brought outdoor cats in and had trouble
    getting them to go inside?
    
    	This file is great and thanks for all suggestions.  All I probably
    need is peace of mind.
    
    Sandy

Bumble Bea also ahs a tendency to 'hold it' when the weather
is too inclement. This weekend's snow storm was a fer-instance.

Then, on Sunday evening, she let out a sudden, mournful wail
and indicated I should read her mind and open the door for her.

On vacations, however, we have had no problem with her using
the box while she is confined to the house.


                                       Susan

    I have one cat of my 10 that always prefers going outside.  I used to
    cut my vacations short too, but found if need be, he will use the box.
    He used to be an outdoor cat before I got him, so when I am home, he
    will go out, do his errand and come right back.  This weekend though,
    we had a blizzard up here in good ol' Mass., remember those Sandy?
    He took one look out the door and turned to go use the box instead.
    Even he has his limits when it comes to 1 1/2 feet of snow!  I'd go
    on the vacation and don't worry. If you have a caretaker that you can
    trust, keep the boxes fresh, and he knows where to go, he should be
    fine.  Don't worry, he can only hold it so long,  he will go in the
    box if he knows he can't go out.  I just tell mine, hey, Chief, got
    to use the box while we're gone, and don't give Martha a hard time.
    He listens.....
    
    Denise and the gang of 10

    As long as it does not hurt him.... It is amazing how it holds it in
    every night for 11 hours (from 7 to 6am) without ever complaining.
    I wish I had his staying power.
    	Anyway, if we got over a foot of snow down here the city would
    shut down for weeks.  On just a threat of a flake of snow everyone
    raids the stores and the weather is the top story in the news.
    Now I think that if it does not hit the 50's it is cold.  Well at
    least it is good for the animals down here.  I dont worry so much
    about strays and such as one would up North this time of year.

    Well, after after 25 hours last night and hard rain Chief decided
    the liter box was not a bad idea.  When I came home he ran outside
    saw the rain... ran back in looked at box.. ran back out and into
    the rain, thought about it... came back in... decided to hold it in
    for about an hour.  He was playing and all of a sudden he ran to
    the litter box and was in there for quite a while.  Boy, was that
    a large clump. This morning I even found poop. He wanted to go out
    real bad.. but it was still raining pretty hard.  Poor cat. He is
    having the cat crazies.  Chasing fur mice has become fun and 
    excitement for him again.  It should stop raining by this afternoon
    
    Sandy