Conference misery::feline

			The Himalayan Standard 
		As Recommended by the Himalayan Society

Head: Round and massive, with great breadth of skull.  Round face with 
round underlying bone structure.  Well set on short thick neck.  Any 
tendency toward concave head to be severly penelized.

Nose:  Short, snub and broad, as broad as it is long, with "break".

Cheeks:  Full

Jaws:  Broad and powerful

Chin:  Full and well developed

Ears:  Small, round tipped, tilted forward, set far apart and low on the 
head.

Eyes:  Large, round and full set wide apart and brilliant.

Body:  Cobby, low on the legs, deep in the chest, equally massive across 
sholders and rump.

Back:  Level

Legs:  Short, thick, and strong with straight forelegs.

Paws:  Large, round and firm. Toes carried close.

Tail:  Short, but in proportion to body length.

Coat:  Long and thick, standing off from the body.  Of fine texture, 
glossy and full of life.  Long all over the body, including the 
shoulders.  The ruff immense and continuing in a deep frill between the 
front legs.  Ear and toe tufts long. Brush full.

Body Color:  Even, with subtle shading when allowed.  Definite contrast 
between body color and points.  Allowance to be made for darkening in 
older cats as long as it is even.

Point Color:  Mask, ears, legs, feet and tail dense and clearly defined. 
All of the same shade.  Mask covers entire face including whisker pads 
and is connected to ears and top of head by tracings.  Mask should not 
extend over top of head.  No ticking or white hairs allowed.

Eye Color:  Blue, the deeper the better.

		Himalayan Colors and Patterns

Himalayans come in 20 accepted colors which is broken down into 3 
seperate color classes, Solid Point division, Particolor Point division, 
and Lynx Point.

Solid Color Point Division

Seal Point:  Points deep seal brown, body even fawn to cream, warm in 
tone.  Nose leather:  deep seal brown. Paw pads:  deep seal brown.

Chocolate Point:  Points milk chocolate color, warm in tone.  Body color 
ivory with no shading.  Nose leather:  cinnamon, Paw pads: cinnamon.

Blue Point:  Points slate blue.  Body bluish white, cold in tone.  Nose 
leather:  slate blue.  Paw pads:  slate blue.

Lilac Point:  Points frosty grey with pinkish tone.  Body glacial white 
with no shading.  Nose leather: lavender/pink. Paw pads:  lavender/pink.

Flame Point:  Points delicate orange flame, free of barring and uniform 
in color.  Body white.  Nose leather: pink. Paw pads: pink.

Cream Point:  Points delicate cream, free of barring and uniform in 
color.  Body white.  Nose leather: pink.  Paw pads: pink.


Particolor Point Division:

Tortie Point: Points seal color with patches of red and/or cream.  Body 
creamy white.  Nose leather: seal brown and/or pink patched.  Paw pads: 
seal brown and/or pink patched.

Blue Cream Point:  Points blue with patches of cream.  Body color bluish 
white or creamy white.  Nose leather: slate and/or pink patched.  Paw 
pads: slate and/or pink patched.

Chocolate Tortie Point:  Body ivory points milk chocolate with 
unbrindled patches of red and/or cream.  Blaze desirable.  Nose & paw 
leather: cinnamon and/or pink patched.

Lilac Cream Point:  Body glacial white.  points frosty gray with pinkish 
tone with unbrindled patches of cream.  Blaze desirable.  Nose & paw 
leather: lavender and/or pink patched.

Lynx Point Division:
Markings:  Mask must be clearly lined with dark stripes vertical on 
forhead, with classic "M" on forehead, horizontal on cheeks with dark 
spots on whisker pads.  Eyes clearly outlined in darker color edge.  
Inner ear light with thumb print in outer ear, broken stripes on legs.  
Tail to have broken rings and heavy ticking.  No stripes or mottling on 
the body but consideration to be given on shading in the older cats.

Seal Lynx Point:  Points beige-brown, ticked with darker brown tabby 
markings.  Body color Pale cream to fawn, warm in tone. Nose leather: 
seal or brick red. Paw pads: seal.

Blue Lynx Point:  Points light silvery blue, ticked with darker blue 
tabby markings.  Body color bluish-white, cold in tone.  Nose leather: 
blue or brick.  Paw pads: blue.

Red Lynx Point:  Points delicate orange/flame with darker orange/flame 
tabby markings.  Body color white.  Nose leather and Paw pads:  Pink.

Cream Lynx Point:  Points delicate cream with darker cream tabby 
markings.  Body color: white.  Nose leather and paw pads:  pink.

Tortie Lynx Point:  Points beige-brown with patches of red and/or cream 
ticked with darker tabby markings.  Body color: creamy white.  Nose 
leather : seal brown and/or pink. Paw pads: seal brown/or pink.

Bluecream Lynx Point:  Points blue with patches of cream ticked with 
darker blue tabby markings.  Body color: bluish white or creamy white.  
Nose leather: slate and/or pink patched.  paw pads slate and/or pink 
patched.

Chocolate Tortie Lynx Point:  Points milk chocolate with patches of red 
and/or cream ticked with darker chocolate tabby markings.  Body: ivory.  
Nose leather: cinnamon and/or pink patched.  Paw pads: cinnamon and/or 
pink patched.

Cream Lynx Point:  Points frosty gray with pinkish tone with 
patches of cream ticked with darker gray tabby markings.  Body color: 
glacial white.  Nose leather: lavender and/or pink patched.  paw pads: 
lavender and/or pink patched.

Chocolate Lynx Point:  Points milk chocolate ticked with darker 
chocolate tabby markings.  Body: ivory. Nose leather: cinnamon. Paw 
pads: cinnamon.

Lilac Lynx Point: Points frosty gray with pinkish tone with darker gray 
tabby markings.  Body glacial white.  Nose leather: lavender. Paw pads: 
lavender.

As Mommy to 10 year old Honey, a seal point Himmy, and 6 year old Chauncey,
a cream point Himmy, I gotta put in a plug for Himmies.  I've known many a
Himmy in my days and they are terrific kitties.  Honey is very laid back, but
Chauncey is very high strung.  I think it's how they were handled as kittens.
Honey's fur is silky silky and he's never had a mat in his life.  He adores
being groomed (I comb them).  Chauncey's fur is kind of 'downy'; he mats very
easily and despises being groomed for the most part.  His points are gorgeous--
kind of a strawberry blond!  He's got a very Persian, pushed in face with
his little pink nose right up there between his eyes.  His eyes are pale, pale
blue.

If I could have a house full of Himmies, I'd be in heaven.  I'd love to get
a blue point and a lilac point some day.....the inn is full....

Mary

    Having seen pictures of both Mary's and Val's cats, I quite agree with
    them that Himalayans are one of the most beautiful of breeds.  Val's
    Beau (bluepoint male) is just lovely, and Mary's Chauncey has quite the
    face!
    
    My blue lynxpoint, Herbie (Herbie the Lovebug, but we call him Furbie)
    is the most beautiful cat I have ever owned.  He doesn't have the
    classic long Himalayan coat... no full ruff or coat that drags the
    ground, but it is thick and full and doesn't matt.  His eyes are huge
    and it looks like he is wearing eyeliner.  His tabby markings are
    striking, especially on his face.
    
    His personality varies between being dim-witted and having flashes of
    brilliance.  One minute he is laid back and calm, the next he is
    bouncing off walls!  He loves to terrorize Kelsey, our Ragdoll cat, the
    biggest wimp that has ever lived.  If Kelsey is sitting comfortably
    somewhere, Herbie will walk up to him, meow in his face, and push him
    out of his spot so he can sit there himself.
    
    Herbie is shy upon meeting new people, but also very curious.  He likes
    to take a back seat and view the scene from afar for awhile before he
    conjures up enough courage to trust.  From my experiences in speaking with
    folks who own Himmies, most are like this.
    
    Like Mary, I would love to own a bluepoint or lilacpoint someday.  For
    people who love the elegant look of a longhair cat, Himalayans are a
    wonderful and gorgeous breed.  Their round, wide heads and sweet
    expressions are irresistable!
    
    -Roberta
    

    
    
    	Well Chloe is a blue/cream point.  I guess that's why she
    	was pet quality rather than show.  She has the pushed in	
    	face and the long white fur that matts soooo easily.
    
    	She's very timid but loveable.  Touch her and she purrs..
    	or rather chirps.  I love it when she chirps.  I think her
    	being so timid comes from the fact that my Maine Coon/tabby
    	loves to attack her constantly. (a mean attack, not playing)
    	She likes to take her food OUT of the bowl, dump it on the
    	floor and then eat it.  Has her spots and will stay in one
    	most of the day only venturing out to eat or use the box.
    
    	Mary wanted to keep her when she kitty sat for me for a few
    	days.  =)
    
    	JJ
    

Judy,
I'm a little confused by your note:
>>>    	Well Chloe is a blue/cream point.  I guess that's why she
    	was pet quality rather than show.  

Bluecream point is an acceptable Himalayan color.  Infact many, people 
favor the color above all others.

Color usually doesn't have anything to do with the show quality of the 
cat, unless the color is off/strange/washed out.

As an exhibitor and breeder I'm pretty much color blind.  It's the cats 
confirmation to breed standard that makes the cat no matter what color 
it is.

Valerie 
    

    
    
    	Ah, ok.  I don't know that much about what the show
    	quality of the breed is.  I was guessing that since
    	her coloring is "mixed" that it wasn't acceptable.
    	She had two owners before me so I didn't get her
    	directly from the breeder.
    
    	Doesn't matter to me.....I love her no matter what
    	color she is!  =)
    
    	Thanks for clearing that up for me Valerie!
    
    	Judy

    RE: .6
    
    The best way to describe the way that a cat is judge is ..
    
    "You've got to build a house before you can paint it"
    
    Hence, type over color.
    
    Holly
    

Holly,


>>>>    "You've got to build a house before you can paint it"
I love it!   It's perfect !!

Most people don't realize all the colors himmys come in.  99% of the 
time when you see a Himalayan pictured in book it's Seal point.  It is 
the color most people are familar with, so it tends to be what most 
people are looking for when purchasing a kitten.  

I have a pregnant queen who is due today 7-1 as a matter of fact.  
(yes I'm on pins and needles that she has them after I get home tonight) 
She is a tortie hybrid bred to a blue point and there are 17 
possible color combinations that she can have, between pointed and solid 
kittens.  Everything but Flame Point females.  Every day I ask her what 
color babies did she make for mommy?  I can't wait.  That's part of the 
wonderful anticipation when you bred torties.  We have all placed our bets 
as to the number and colors of what they will be.  Oh I praying that she 
holds off till Friday, my day off!!!

For those of you interested in Cat color genetics, When you breed 2 cats 
together, depending on the color of the parents there are certain colors 
possibilities that all the male kittens can be and certain colors that 
all the female kittens can be.  Because a Tortie genetically carries all 
cat colors you have a greater probability of getting the most wide 
variety of colors in one litter.  This really helps keep the kittens 
straight when they all look different.  I bought a seal point female who 
was out of a litter of 7 seal points.  The breeder had to apply different 
colors of nail polish on their paw pad to be able to distinguish one from 
the other to make sure you got the right kitty that you pick out weeks 
prior.  But what a picture a basket full of seal point kittens makes!

If any are interested I have put together a color breeding chart which 
breaks down all the different breedings and color combinations of males 
and females. It can be used for Himmys, Persians.  I'm not sure about 
other breeds.  I know you can get a list form CFA, but I perfer to use a 
chart it more visual and I find it easier to follow.  I have it in a 
postscript file, I'd be happy to send it to anyone who would like.  
Just send me mail.  


Okay enoughs enough.  I need another cup of coffee.


Valerie

    We got our flame point "Himmy" at the local animal shelter here in
    southern California.  He was only one year old.  We named him
    Maximillian.  Having never had a cat before, we didn't know what to
    expect.  
    
    This cat doesn't do much.  It's more like -- worship me, I'm beautiful. 
    He doesn't jump up on any furniture or counters, he doesn't make any
    noise (other than an occasional meow when food is placed in front of
    him), he doesn't rub up against you, doesn't scratch on anything,
    doesn't like to be held longer than a minute, and loves to be brushed.
    Oh yes, he does purr when he is combed and brush.  Like I said earlier,
    he doesn't do much -- just rests a lot.
    
    We are very happy that he has such a "low key" personality.  In fact,
    our friends said he's a real California cat -- real laid back.
    
    I'm interested in knowing if Maximillian has a "typical" Himalayan
    personality.
    
    brushed. 

Must be them red-heads...Max sounds like Chauncey.  He prefers to be admired
and he'll let out a little, tiny meow when he wants baby food...other than
that, he prefers to be placed on a pedestal and held in high esteem....

Mary

    Yup, must be the red head!!  My Himalayan is always on the counters, on
    top of the refrigerator, cabinets, etc.  He's a holy terror when he
    sets his mind to it.
    
    I think a lot has to do with the genetics behind the cats.  Val's
    Himmie's tend to be really laid back... but other lines are rather
    skittish.  The breeder I purchased mine from had a mixture of both
    skittish and very calm cats.  She was working with several different
    lines, and did notice a pattern of shyness in some of them.
    
    Be thankful you have a cat that only wants to be admired and not get
    into trouble!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    I've got a Himalayan and I didn't know!  I'm in the UK, and my new cat,
    Champion Kindle Geronimo (aka Gerry) is a blue colourpoint longhair - 
    which I gather from the descriptions I've just read here is a 
    bluepoint Himalayan.
    
    Gerry is an ex-show and stud tom, who was neutered and given to us as
    a pet because his breeder's marriage had broken up, and she couldn't 
    afford to keep all her cats.  We've had him nearly three weeks now, 
    and he is settling in very well.  He loves the dog, is inseparable 
    from Persis the cream Persian (she smacks his face, but he comes 
    back for more), and is generally a really nice cat.  He's an incredibly
    picky eater, and spits anything he doesn't fancy across the kitchen - 
    funny, but messy.  Is this typical of the breed?
    
    Helen

    Well, my Himalayan is not at all picky about what he eats, but some
    are.  I think mine has to do with the fact that all he was allowed
    to eat at the breeder's house was dry food.  Canned food was a treat. 
    Canned food is always fed twice a day at my house, and Herbie will eat
    anything that comes out of a can!  He is always the first one at the
    plate and the last to leave.
    
    He has a passion for bread stuffs and cereals.  Pizza is a delicacy
    as far as he's concerned.
    
    I must have a "defective" Himalayan!  :^) :^)  He doesn't display a lot
    of the normal Himmie characteristics at all.
    
    -Roberta
    
    P.S.  Herbie was an ex-stud too, neutered because he wasn't quite
          "typey" enough to produce nice babies.
    

    Gerry was neutered because he never managed to sire anything!!
    
    He eats dry food, but won't touch anything that comes out of a can - he
    tries it, and throws it across the kitchen.  The only other thing I've
    found that he likes is roast chicken!  
    
    Helen

    RE: .9
    
    Valerie,
    
    I got that saying from a CFF judge.  Trish Long.
    
    I can just imagine what your friend had to go through with all of the
    sealpoint kittens.  Imagine what I'm going to go through when I breek
    Kyra (her next heat she's going to go find a man).  She's a turkish
    angora.  Turkeys (as they're fondly referred to) mainly come in White. 
    I will however be breeding her to a black and white turkey with
    beautiful amber eyes!  But I have only the possibility of having whites
    (any color eyes) or black and whites.
    
    The way that Kyra's breeder distinguishes between white kitties is as
    follows:
    
    1) by male/female (obviously)
    
    2)  Their eye color (whites come in blue eyed, amber eyed, or odd eyed)
    	(Oh, I pray for an odd eyed white!!)
    
    3)  By getting some different colored water soluable (non-toxic)
    hilighters and marking their ears!!  Kyra was known as the green eared
    amber eyed female!!  haha!
    
    Holly
    

    Channel, my chocolate-point himalayan just loves people, especially
    kids.  She wants to be petted and played with all the time, but she
    hates to be brushed.  She talks alot and is very demanding when she's
    hungry.  She has very strange eating habits though..  She sits in front of
    her bowl and scoops out food with her paw and eats it off her paw.
    I've never seen a cat do this before, is this odd or what?  As a result
    of her eating routine, she makes a horrible mess, there is both wet and
    dry cat food all over the floor around her bowl and sometimes even on
    the wall by the time she has finished!
    
    One thing I've noticed about Himalayans, or at least the ones I know is
    that they're not very bright.  I'll be the first to admit that Channel
    is pretty stupid sometimes.  Like when I'm busy running around the
    house she'll try to walk between my legs and I wind up tripping and she
    usually gets kicked (not intentionally) in the process.  Its really bad
    when she does this while I'm going up or down stairs!  She also loves 
    to race around the house chasing nothing inparticular and will usually
    either 1)crash into a wall, person or other immovable object 
           2)leap onto either the coffee taple or dining room table and go
             sliding off the other end
    or     3)knock over my plant stand and track the dirt everywhere!
    
    Maybe her line was interbred to much because her mother and grandmother
    are even more dim witted than she is...
    

    I had to laugh when reading the previous entry... Herbie has gotten
    kicked by accident more than once when he insisted on being underfoot
    at the wrong time!  He also jumps onto things on one end and slides off
    the other..... sort of skids across, and upon falling off gives you
    this look like, "I meant to do that!"
    
    I always tell him that he was bred to sit around the house and look
    good, not to be smart!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    re: -1 
    
    Oh, so Channel isn't the only one that does that stuff..  Whew!! I was
    beginning to thing she was brain damaged.  Does Herbie by any chance
    eat his food with his paw too?  I think Channel eats like that so she
    doesn't get food on her face.  8^) 
    
    Another ridiculous thing she does is gets herself locked in the Kitchen
    cabinet alot, mostly the one where I keep the cat food.  She talks up
    a storm to be feed, so when I open the cabinet and get out a can of
    food for her she sometimes in her excitement will rush in there before
    the door shuts.  Meanwhile I'm busy opening the can and scooping it 
    out into the dish when I hear a thud thud from inside the cab., and
    of course it's her knocking on the door trying to get out!
    
    Sharon
    

    No, Herbie doesn't eat with his paw; he prefers to shove his whole head
    into the dish and chow down with gusto.  I always wash his face after
    every meal of canned food... talk about obscessed!!  I can't bear to
    see that beautiful face caked with the goop from his eyes and gravy
    from the food.
    
    He also likes to get into cupboards and has been inadvertently locked
    in on more than one occasion.  Another thing he does that I find
    hysterical.... he gets upset when one of the other cats does something
    that he can't do... like jump to the top of the cabinets.  Herbie isn't
    a very graceful jumper like Taja and Kelsey, who can leap to almost
    anywhere very surefootedly (is that a word??).  Anyway, when Herbie
    sees them do something that he wants to do, he cries and pouts and
    carries on until we pick him up and place him where the other cats are.
    
    Yes, definitely cute, but D-U-M-B!!
    

*************************************************************************
*************************************************************************
	The moment I have been waiting for has arrived!!!!!!!


















It gives me great pleasure to announce to you the newest members of 
"Valique" cattery............


















Drumm roll please..............................

















Born on July 4th to: 

		Grand Champion Deverest Beau Blue of Valique

		 		    And

			Alto's Gioia Mia of Valique


They are the proud parents of 3 beautiful kittens.  

			Cream Point Male weighing in at 3.25 ounces
			Bluecream Female weighing in at 2.50 ounces
			Tortie  Female weighing in at 3.50 ounces

Mother and babies are all doing great.

These are Beau's first babies... I have waited so very long for these 
beautiful babies to arrive.  I'm just thrilled!!!!! 



Unfortunately I lost a beautiful red male at birth, he was very large, 
breech and she had such a difficult time expelling it that by the time 
she finally did pass him, he was gone.  Broke my heart I tried everything 
to revive him but it was too late.  If he had lived I would of had  red, 
white, and blue kittens born on the 4th of July!! (Bluecream, white 
pointed, and the red).  


The 3 babies are doing just wonderful. They have all doubled + their 
birth weight, and are just as cute as a button.  I even think 
I have a show baby boy....  Only time will tell.


I'll keep you updated....



Valerie

  

    

    Congrats to Val and Beau and the new Momma!  Give those new babes a big
    hug for me!
    
    -Roberta
    

OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH  A tortie himmy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
No, no, Mary, breath deeply....calmly....relax....

Whew!  The urge has passed.  Just don't show me pictures!!!

Welcome to the TBKs!!

Mary

	Whoa!  Congratulations, Val - and to mom and dad kitty, too :^}

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO   CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    They sound gorgeous.  Mom and Dad must be very proud kitties.
    
    Hey Mary wanna start a support group?
    
    The inn is full ....... the inn is fulllllll
    
    sigh 
    
    Congratulations Valerie I know how hard you work on your breeding
    program.  Glad to see it paying off.
    
    Kim
    
    

    Hello evrybody I'm Sonia Schneider I live in France and it's the first
    time I write in notes (I only read normaly) so forgive my mistakes. I
    saw one day in a magazine a photo of an Himalayan and fell in love with
    it. I've got some questions about this breed. 
    
    1 ) In other contries is this breed recognised ? If yes has it mayby an
        other name ?
    
    2 ) What is the best color (the more uncommun)
    
    3 ) what is the price for a good show quality cat (female)
    
    4 ) Is it possible to export a kitten to France and how could we do
        that ?
    
    I'm asking all these questions because I would love to have a cat like
    that, and over here there is I think only one breeder, and I herd that
    the price is very very high ( 8000  francs makes about 1 568 $)
    
    So if anyone can give me some answers (And mayby send me pictures of
    Himalayans I'll be so happy.
    
    My DTN N� IS 7 858 5902 (Bewere of the hour over here it is already a
    quater to five in the evening and we leave at a quater past five)
    
    good day to evrybody
    
    Sonia + 1 cat, 3 dogs and a rabbit
    
       

    Hi Sonia,
    
    Himmies are called Persian Colourpoints, I think, in the UK.  A good
    show quality female would run at least 500US$, more like 750US$.
    I think you could travel into France with appropriate paper work, but
    I know of no airlines that will transport a cat cross the pond.  You
    might have much better luck looking in the UK.

    Or visiting a local shelter and finding a cat with some of the
    characteristics you like, but who doesn't happen to be a show
    type cat.
    

	Drive/ferry across and back, you don't have to fly.

	UK to France is OK, but don't do it the other way becuase of quarantine.

Sonia,
    
To answer some of your questions.  

 1 ) In other contries is this breed recognised ? If yes has it mayby an
        other name ?
	
	Yes, they are a recognised breed in Europe and they're called
	colorpoint long hairs.

 2 ) What is the best color (the more uncommun)

	The most uncommon colors are chocolate and lilac point, but these are 
	not the most popular colors.  I would say seal point (dark brown 
	mask) is probably the most widly known. Then blue point and 
	flame point.  

	The best color is the one that appeals to you the most.
	as a breeder of Himalayans, color is not as important to me as
	confirmation.  As Holly says,...  "you have to build the house 
	before you paint it". 

   
    3 ) what is the price for a good show quality cat (female)
	
	Price vary according to where you live, quality of the cat, 
	pedigree, etc...

	A show quality cat would probabably start bottom figure 
	at $1,000 US dollars and could run as high as $3,000.  
	     


    4 ) Is it possible to export a kitten to France and how could we do
        that ?
    
	Not sure.  I think most of Europe has a 6 month quarantine 
	period with animals coming in from the states.
	

Hope this helps

Valerie       

    Valerie, Ill have to say that my absolute favorite color himmy is a
    tortie point.  They are SO adorable.
    
    A friend of mine (A CFF breeder) has one, and I absolutely fell in love
    with her!
    
    Holly
    

    I don't believe that France has a rabies quaratine since they already
    have rabies there.
    
    Jo

    Hello evrybody,
    
    First of all I want to thank evrybody for all your answers. And as Jo
    said in France there is no quarantine but all the animals that arrive
    from other contries must have all there shots. I'll go at a show in
    France to see if they have Himmies over here and see in what class they are
    jugded in. In the U.K. is this breed well represented ? As it is not
    far from France I would maybe make a trip overthere to buy one, so that
    it brings a new blood line in the contrie.
    
    Valerie I would like to see some photos of your babies they must be
    fantastic.
    
    Jo are birmans smaller than Himmies what is the difference ?
    
    And congratulations to all you Deccies how show and win with all
    your babies, it's a sorry that I live so... far away, i would have
    loved to see you at shows and learn a lot with all of you.
    
    Sonia + 1 cat and 3 dogs
    
    
    

    Birmans aren't exactly smaller than Himmies.  They are built
    differently.  A Himmy is a cobby cat, meaning it is short bodied, broad
    shouldered and broad chested, and sits on heavy boned short legs.
     
    Birmans are described as being long but stocky.  They are broad chested
    and broad shouldered, but they are taller on their legs, have lighter
    boning in their legs, and have longer bodies.
    
    They also have four white feet, and white gauntlets up the back of
    their hocks. :')  That is the easiest way to remember them.  Their are
    lost of Birmans in France.  Some of my lines are French imports.  There
    is the "de la Belle Image" cattery, and the "de la Renouee" (sp)
    cattery that come to mind.  The sire of most of my foundation Birmans
    was Ulrich de my Sohl of Sacrechat who was out of GRC Patrocle de Sire
    Tibert. 
    
    Anyway, back to Himmies....

An update on the babes.

All are doing real well.  I have 3 that are 4.5 weeks and one little 
bluepoint that is 2.5.

They're at that real cute stage, little powder puffs and think fingers 
are play toys to racsel and bite.

They are all so incredible cute they are making it harder and harder for 
me to get to work in the morning.

Pictures, somebody mention pictures?  Have you ever tried to get 3 
kittens to stand still for a second to take a picture.  If you have 
been successful please tell me how.  And thumb tacks are not a solution
....But I've thought about it. 8-)

I think I'll have to take them outdoors in natural sunlight.  Indoor 
Flash photo's makes them look like something out of a Stephen King 
movie, The kittens from Hell......Large red eyes.  I have to tell 
everyone I show the pictures to  ...Really Himmys have blue eyes honest.

Right now I don't see how I'm gonna part with any of them.  They all 
look super.  Of course the Flame point boy is the nicest and my 
favorite, but I really don't need to have another male.  He will 
probably be showable in CFF or TICA.  He doesn't have the extreme nose 
placement that CFA likes to see, But he has everything else... Short 
tiny little nose nice high break, perfect head, excellent boneing, 
tiny ears perfect ear set, really cobby body, and short legs.  
Right now what one can tell at 4.5 weeks, I'm very pleased.

The girls 2 hybrids a tortie and bluecream both look good too.  I know 
I'll keep at least one. But I want to keep both I hate to decide one over the 
other they're both so nice.but can't make up my mind.  What torture I put 
myself through.  I just want to keep them all.  I've just excepted the 
fact that I will always be running in the red, with a full house.


Valerie

    ooooooo a flamepoint himmy.  
    
    the inn is full...... the inn is full......
    
    sigh  Valerie how do you do it! I don't think I could part with any of
    them.  :^)
    
    Kim

	Aw c'mon, Valerie - I saw those pictures at the show - they 
	were great!  Such cute li'l bundles of fur :^}

	My inn is full, too!

    Oh Valerie!  They sound SO cute!!  The inn is full .. the inn is
    full...
    
    A tortie hybrid??  OH NO!!  THE INN IS FULL .. THE INN IS FULL!! (Oh,
    how I love torties!! )
    
    I can't wait for Kyra's kittens to arrive.  Here's hoping that it took
    this weekend.
    
    Holly
    

    Well, I'm sad to say that my Channel got sick and died October 30,
    1992.  She was two months shy of 2 years old.  My heart was completely
    broken and I couldn't even bring myself to write a note about her.
    
    It's funny for about a month after Channel died, I could have swarn I
    heard her purring when I woke up.  She use to sleep on one of the
    selves in the headboard of my waterbed and when I would wake up I could
    hear her purring up a storm.
    
    Now I have a new baby Himmie.  She's eight weeks old and I got her this
    past Saterday.  She's a seal point and she is the absolute cutiest
    little honey.  I'm calling her Kelsey.  And I totally love her and
    I think Channel would like her too.
    
    **sigh**
    Sharon
    

    I'm so sorry about Channel.  I'm sure Kelsey will be a comfort
    to you.
    
    Karen
    

    I'm sorry to hear about Channel.  As a Himalayan owner, I know how
    would feel if anything ever happened to him.
    
    My sealpoint Ragdoll is named Kelsey.  Great name!!  May your Kelsey
    have many happy and healthy years ahead with you.
    
    -Roberta
    

    Does anyone know of any breeders of Purple/Lilac Himalayans in MA,
    preferably Eastern/Central MA. I know someone who is looking for a
    female lilac.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Steve
    
    

    I got my Himalayan from a breeder in Bellingham, MA, and she is working
    with the dilute colors (lilac is a dilute of the bluepoint).  Her name
    is Rachel Boyd.  I will try to dig up her number tonight, but I'm
    almost sure you can obtain it through 411 information.
    
    She has some females that carry the lilac gene; however, I am not sure
    if she has done any recent breedings to males carrying lilac.  It has
    been awhile since we have spoken.
    
    -Roberta
    

    My beloved Chubs is gone and I am thinking of getting another friend.
    I would like to get a Himalayan.  Can someone suggest the best places
    to look for one.  I know that they are expensive but sometimes you can
    get one for a fairly low price.  I couldn't afford $300 but I could
    certainly provide a loving home.
    
    Thanks in advance for any help you can give.  I still see Chubs
    everywhere I look in the house.
    
    I LOVE YOU CHUBS!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Pat

    Pat.....I'm not sure where you live but you could always try
    calling shelters and find a Himalayan mix at a pretty reasonable
    price.   It won't be a purebred...but it could very well resemble
    and have a himalyan qualities.
    
    Or....see if you can find a breeder who might be retiring one of
    her breeding cats.  
    
    Good luck on your search....
    
    Sandy
    

    Pat,
    
    There is a cat show Labor Day weekend at the Wallace Civic Center in
    Fitchburg, MA.  YOu may want to go there and talk to some of the
    breeders.  As Sandy said, maybe some of the breeders are trying to
    retire a breeding cat and just want the price of spaying/neutering the
    animal as long as the cat is going to a loving home.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Holly
    

    
    re .46 - I believe the Fitchburg show is the weekend before Labor Day,
    i.e., 28-29 August.
    
    len.
    
                

    Pat,
    
    If you are in MA, try contacting Rachel Boyd.  I purchased my neutered
    blue lynxpoint Himalayan from her 2 years ago, for $150.  He was two
    years old at the time.  She had a gorgeous seal lynxpoint female named
    Angelique (a spay) and was talking about placing her; however, one of
    her recent letters to me indicated Angie is still with her.
    
    I offered her $150 for Herbie; she might have taken less, but we
    settled on $150.  Who knows, you might be able to work out a deal for
    an older cat.
    
    Rachel lives in Bellingham.  You can contact me off line for more info.
    
    -Roberta
    

    RE: Len ..
    
    No, it's Labor Day weekend.  The one you're thinking of is the one that
    used to be at the Best Western.  That one is a CFA show.  I'm not sure
    if it's going to happen this year or now (I heard that it wasn't).
    
    This one is at the Wallace Civic center and is a CFF show.  I know
    because I'm helping to run the show.
    
    Holly
    

    I live in South Carolina and would love to have one of these beautiful
    cats "ya'll" talk about.  Can anyone give me a few pointers on what to
    look for and what questions to ask - How can you tell a good breeder? 
    
    Thanks much,
    
    Teri

    Teri,
    
    A good breeder will be patient and answer any questions you have about
    the breed.  A good breeder will allow you into her home to view the
    cats and kittens and handle them.  If the breeder will not let you see
    where the cats are kept in her home, chances are that breeder is not
    reputable.  I prefer situations where the kittens are raised
    "underfoot"; they are used to human contact and noises associated with
    everyday living.
    
    A good breeder will ensure the cat has it's series of vaccines and a
    health certificate from a vet before selling it to you.  A good breeder
    will stand behind what they sell should something go wrong and continue
    to work with you after the sale.
    
    Himalayans are beautiful cats, but they require a certain degree of
    upkeep.  Their short noses cause leaky eyes (brownish discharge) in
    some cats and their faces need washing, sometimes several times per
    day.  I have seen more Himalayans with permanent stains under their
    eyes because their owners do not clean them.  Their coats need constant
    grooming to stay tangle free; these are not low maintenance cats by any
    means.  Many have sensitive digestive tracts.  Some don't use their
    litterboxes on a regular basis because of their long fur and prefer to
    use other areas of the house.  These are worst case scenarios, but they
    happen and are common with this breed.  I adopted mine as a young adult
    from a breeder who was downsizing her cattery.  I got the color and
    "type" I wanted, and his personality/behavior patterns were already
    formed.  I figured if he could live in a cattery with 20+ cats with no
    bad litterbox habits, etc., he could live with me and my other 2 cats. 
    I have not regretted that decision a bit.  And because he was an adult,
    he cost a lot less than a kitten.
    
    Good luck in your quest!  Himalayans are worth all the effort one must
    invest to own one!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Thanks for the great info.  How can you avoid some of these problems. 
    For example, if their long fur can keep them from using the litterbox,
    how can you correct it?  Also, is there a certain type of food that is
    better for these type of cats that won't upset their stomachs?  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Teri

    Teri,
    
    Some people keep the fur on their Himalayan's hindquarters shaved so
    the litter, feces, and urine doesn't stick to it and cause problems. 
    Sometimes just trimming the fur along their "pantaloons" helps quite a
    bit.  I feed all my cats a dry diet of Science Diet, Iams, and Max Cat,
    and canned food twice a day (usually Friskies Buffet or 9-Lives).  My
    Himalayan can tolerate almost anything, thank goodness!  He also has a
    shorter coat than most Himmies so I don't have to shave him.  He does
    mat up, but they are easily combed out if I keep up with it on a daily
    basis.
    
    You will find that a lot will be just trial and error.  I tend not to
    anticipate problems until they happen and just deal with them then. 
    There are lots and lots of Himalayans out there without the problems I
    described, but they can be typical of the breed as I've known several
    people and heard several cases of this happening, and the owners were
    forced to give up their cats.
    
    Please keep us posted of your decision!
    
    -Roberta
     

    Roberta,
    
    You have been a great help!  I really appreciate your taking the time
    to answer my questions.  I know that a Himalayan is the cat for me! 
    But, it may take several months to convince my husband.  He isn't
    really a cat person he is more of a dog person.  However, I think once
    I place a cute little furry kitty on his lap that he will weaken.  That
    is my plan so I hope it works. I have also told him that I can consult
    with the CANINE conference and find him a dog - then we'll both be
    happy!
    
    My other obstacle to overcome is my pet cockatiel Snickers.  I'm a
    little concerned that he may become lunch if I get a cat.  I was hoping
    that a kitten brought into a house with a bird already there may just
    consider him part of the scenery - But - my common sense tells me that
    this would defy the laws of cat nature.  
    
    Any advice on overcomming my huband/bird obstacles?
    
    Thanks!
    
    Teri  

    Teri,
    
    If you are planning on getting a himalayan, then just get your bird a
    cage that can hang from a wall or the ceiling and is away from most
    places where a cat can climb to.  Himalayans are NOT jumpers usually. 
    the kitten may watch the bird, but because of their body types, if the
    cage is high enough and out of reach, s/he won't be able to get the
    bird.
    
    Holly
    

    I remember those days when I had a husband to contend with regarding
    adding a cat to the household!
    
    I never told him I was adopting Herbie, my Himalayan (He was pre-named
    before joining me.).  I told him that my neighbor and I were going out
    for lunch, and we went to the breeder's house to meet Herbie (We really
    did have lunch out afterwards but to this day, no one believes me!)  A
    few weeks later I went back to pick Herbie up and brought him home on a
    night when I knew Dana (my ex) would be out.  Because Herbie hid in the
    basement, Dana didn't know we had a new cat until I brought Herbie
    upstairs myself and introduced the two of them the next night!  He
    wasn't happy, but because Herbie is such a beautiful, affectionate cat
    they grew to love one another.
    
    I don't advocate doing what I did, as it's best for these things to be
    a mutual decision.  As Holly said, Himalayans are very laid back and
    don't jump much.  Herbie can scale the counter, but is still totally
    baffled on how to make it from the countertop to the top of the
    refrigerator and then onto the top of the cabinets.  He'll just sit on
    the counter and whine until I put him on top of the refrigerator myself
    so he can make the short jump the rest of the way up.  If you keep the
    bird far enough away, no catastrophes should occur.
    
    Also, I was watching a special on cats a few weeks ago, and the
    narrator mentioned that if kittens aren't taught to hunt at a young age
    by their moms, they never develop that instinct.  They'll be interested
    in small animals and if caught, will "play" with them to death versus
    kill them outright for food.
    
    I don't think you will regret your decision at all.  See if you can
    convince your husband to accompany you to visit breeders, because you
    really should check out several before purchase.  Tell him you're in no
    hurry to buy because you need to do some research first.  I'll bet once
    he has a chance to view the kittens and cats himself and hold them,
    he'll be more amenable to having one.
    
    Good luck!
    

    Hi...
    
    I can't help you overcome your hubby...but I believe if you get
    a kitten and he grows up with the bird, you will have no problems.
    
    I have a 14 year old parakeet...who lives with MANY former stray cats!!  
    We do take precautions...like hanging his cage from the ceiling..removing
    all furniture under the cage so the cats can't jump up...and keeping
    our squirt bottle handy at all times in case a kitty gets that look
    in their eye.   My bird actually teases the heck out of the cats.....
    but they have all learned to live peacefully!!!
    
    Good luck and enjoy your new kitty......
       

    Sandy, I forgot about your bird!  He was always so quiet the few times
    I visited you!  :^)  Listen to Sandy.  Most of her cats were hunters
    in a previous life, but since they are now spoiled rotten eating
    gourmet cat food, a bird would be like eating at McDonalds!
    

    One of my cats is still a hunter, outside.  However, neither cat pays
    the slightest attention to our caged cockateil.  It seems as though
    they don't consider him a "real" bird.  His cage is sitting on top of
    the clothes dryer in our kitchen.  Both cats, if they were so inclined
    (and they developed the urge to do something other than SLEEP), could
    easily hop up.  Mind you, he is noisy as all get-out, and shrieks at
    the cats as they pace the floor in front of his cage waiting to be fed,
    but they never even look at him.  One cat is young (about 2 years old)
    and one is older (unknown, but older!), and both were strays before
    moving in. 
    Sarah

    However, each cat is different.  I had a parrakeet when I first got
    Tabitha and Silver.  Silver was 4 months old when I got her and Tabitha
    was only 5 weeks old when I got her.
    
    They always watched Charlie, but never bothered him too much.  About
    6 months after I got the cats, at around 11:00 at night, I heard a large 
    CRASH in the dining room.  I decided to get up and see what it was so 
    I wouldn't be surprised in the morning.  I turned on the dining room 
    light and got a total shock!  Charlie's cage had been knocked over, 
    and Tabitha had Charlie in her mouth!  She ran from the dining room
    with Charlie into my mother's room.  I chased her all around the house
    until finally she went behind the chair in the living room.  She let go
    of him (probably to get a better grip), and charlie flew away up to my
    shoulder.  Needless to say, after that, Charlie spent his days in the
    bathroom until finally my aunt took him.  There, he lived out a
    wonderful life, cat free!
    
    So, there's ALWAYS an exception to every story.  Tabitha didn't have
    her mother to teach her how to hunt, but somehow, she got Charlie!
    
    Holly
    

    
    None of my housecats had a mom to teach them to hunt, but it
    didn't stop them from catching the one brave mouse that ventured
    into the house a few years ago.  It's a natural instinct, and if
    given the chance, your bird could become an attractive activity.
    Just put the bird out of reach, and keep that squirt bottle handy!

    Your stories are great!  I will definitely make sure Snickers is placed
    out of reach.  If a cat is de-clawed, is the furniture, drapes, etc.
    safe from destruction?  Also, what do cats do to entertain themselves
    while we are at work?  Are busy paws happy paws?   Or, do himmies just
    relax and wait for you to come home to pamper them?  I really should
    have been a cat - that is exactly how I would like to live!
    
    Regards,
    
    Teri

    Hi Teri.
    
    Well I can tell you what my cats do to enterain themselves while I'm
    gone.  Taja beats up Kelsey, and I come home to clumps of fur
    everywhere.  If they had a really big scuffle then centerpieces are
    off-center, bedroom lamps overturned, etc.  I don't know what my
    Himalayan does... probably just eat and sleep, in that order.  Herbie
    is very good at getting into trouble and placing the blame on the other
    two cats.
    
    I have never had a declawed cat, but do know they still imitate the
    scratching motion after the claws are removed.  Many use their back
    legs for play and self-defense, or resort to biting.  I wouldn't say
    that himmies just relax and wait for you to come home; mine is quite
    playful and is often a partner in crime during the disaster of the day.
    Only cats can get bored if their owners are away for long periods of
    time and get into mischief as a result (or be so wound up from sleeping
    all day they expect you to devote your evenings to entertaining them!). 
    Hmm, Teri... maybe you could talk your husband into two cats?  Or get a
    puppy and a kitten and raise them together.  This way, both of you
    will get what you want!
    

    I think having a puppy and a kitten is purfect.  I could tell my
    husband they are really for the kids.  I have a daughter 9 and a son 6. 
    All kids need a pet, right?  He could fall for that.  I'll mention this
    to him at a good moment and let you know his reaction.  You have some
    really cute names for your cats.  You know how they have "Baby Name"
    books - I wonder if they make a "Pet Name" book.  
    
    So fellow noters, what are some good names?
    
    Regards,
    
    Teri

Hmm, let's see..what do cats do all day when we're not visiting them in their
homes?  Mine like to knock the phones off the hook, walk on top of my clock
radio and reset the clock(even though it requires simultaneously pressing two
buttons), chase each other, sleep, eat, leave little nose prints on all the
windows:-).  I'd say they keep pretty busy.  Even Gypsy keeps busy playing
now!  I have a toy hanging from the ironing board, and he likes to bat that
around, and one of those tracks with the ping pong balls in it that he plays
with, and various other toys hanging around.  He also likes to leave nose prints
on the window!  Buki loves the scratching post, even though he's declawed, and
tears into it like crazy!  He also loves to chew on silk flowers and sometimes
boxes or letters.  If I leave any cat food out on the counter, he'll tear the
bag to pieces even though he's got a bowlfull on the floor! Oh, and they used
to change the recording on the answering machine, which only required stepping
on one button!  

The fun just never ends for them!!!

Laura

    Hey Laura - Gypsy's playing?  That's cool!  :^)
    
    Teri, I actually named Kelsey from a book of baby names, not pet names! 
    I have always loved the name Taja and was just waiting to have a regal
    looking cat to use it on.  My ex-husband and I had a huge fight over
    that name, so Taja is nicknamed Meatball or Meaty for short.  I still
    call him that most of the time.
    
    Now I am waiting until the day I own an all white cat to name Kiska.  I
    love that name.  Also Kaisha.  Hey, let us know when your new
    kitty/puppy arrives, what colors they are, etc., and we'll help you
    pick out names.
    
    -Roberta
    
    
    

    
    My youngest sister has a Himalayan named Churchill.  He's slightly
    crosseyed, and the only way I can describe him is that he simply
    exists.  There's also a hell-raising Dalmation (Dana) and a supremely
    level-headed Rottweiler (Cassiopeia, who is the sweetest and smartest
    dog I have ever known), a lizard (Hercules), and a bunch of other cats
    (Weasel, BC, and Marco).  Outside there are rabbits and horses.  Churchill
    lives a life utterly oblivious to all of them.  He sleeps and eats.  I've
    never seen him play.  It's tempting to write Churchill off as about as
    smart as a rock, but maybe he's just found that inner peace and
    acceptance of "the way things are" that the rest of us spend our lives
    searching for...
    
    len.
      

    I find it so much easier to pick out a name...once I see the
    kitty and understand the personality.   All my cats have pretty
    uncommon names...but that is the way I like it!!  We have used 
    street names (Dewey- found him on that street), Famous Painters (Van Gogh
    he's missing an ear), Sports figures (Barkley - big bully kitty), 
    Famous Bands (Poco)and poor Rio was named because we always blame
    everything on him. Ie..Blame it on Rio!!!
    
    I know the Pat Brody Shelter has started using City/State names..such
    as Texas, Dakota (love that one). Ashby, Alaska...etc.  
    
    I LOVE naming kitties...maybe that is WHY I have so many! (HA HA)
    
    Sandy

    
    Kitty names are easier if you have seen and played with the individual. 
    I do have a few favorites though, just waiting for the right pet to
    come along!  Dutchess, TC (can stand for anything, toughcat, tinycat
    whatever!) Snowball.
    
    As for what they do all day!!!
    
    They will never tell and we will never know the half of it.   But here
    is what I found out.... (Don't tell them that we know.)
    
    Panther Jane spends good deal of time dialed in to Compuserve or the
    Internet, either talking to her friends, ordering supplies or checking
    up on her broker and her investments.
    
    In the good weather (we live in New England) on tuesdays and Thursdays
    she goes horseback riding, Every Friday she has her bridge club over.
    
    She calls her attorney a lot too, but she is not as social with Kostas
    as she was with Argus J. Pussycat.(RIP)
    
    She is a very active social cat.
    
    Spots on the other hand, ...er um well, she is a different story.  She
    pends a lot of time trying to find the keys to Daddies truck so she can
    drive herself to Pizza Hut, she calls her bookie, she has her buddies
    over for Pizza and Pool and Poker parties.  She is not into horses, she
    likes motorcycles.
    
    
    I haven't quite discovered what the Cinny man is up to.  But give me a few
    years I am sure I will find out.  ;-)
    
    Feline Silly,
    
    Sue

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...himmies.
    
    Jan
    Moderator, FELINE

    Does anyone know what the differences are between Persian and Himmies? 
    I would be interested to know why someone would pick a Himmie instead
    of a Persian since they seem so similar to me.  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Teri

Himmies have "points", like a Siamese.  Persians don't.  They are shown in
the same class at shows....in the UK, I think, they're simply called
Persian Colourpoints.  The other characteristics (including attitude!!)
are the same...it's just colour pattern...

Mary, who has a seal point, a cream point, and a blue point Himmy(s)

    Just an FYI, Mary, in CFF, Himmies and Persians are not in the same
    class.  They are a separate breed in CFF, including the "solid" colored
    himmies.  Just to confuse people even more, a "solid" colored himmie is
    a solid colored cat that came out of a himalayan breeding.  As Mary
    said, the only difference between the himalayans and persians is the
    color.  Himalayans have pale bodies with colored points, like siamese. 
    When I said "solid" colored himmies, it means that one or both of the
    cats parents were color pointed.
    
    Holly
    

    
    Also, all the Himalayans I have seen seem to not have been bred for
    such extreme foreshortening of the nose as appears to have become the
    rage among Persian breeders.
    
    len.
    

    Len,
    
    They're trying to get the look of the Persians, but with the siames
    heritage, they're having a bit of difficulty.  They're no longer using
    siamese, so they'll probably have the look of the persians soon.
    
    Holly (who doesn't like the persian look.  I like a longhair with a
    nose!)
    

    
    Every time I see an excessive Persian, I play this little movie in my
    head - "Yes, Mr. Lion and Mr. Tiger, this is what your smaller cousins
    have evolved into".
    
    len.
    

    Can anyone give me an idea on the cost of a himmie?  Is it based on the
    color?   
    
    Thanks again for all your help,
    
    Teri

    Teri,
    
    Cost depends on a number of factors:  What part of the country you are
    in, the quality of the kitten, and the age of the kitten.
    
    Here in the northeast, purebred kittens can be quite pricey.  Pet
    quality Himalayans from a good, reputable breeder are about $250, some
    as high as $350.  Sometimes the breeder's status in the cat fancy
    and the lineage of the parents comes into play.  Pet quality kittens
    from top lines and grand champion cats might be priced higher.  Pet
    quality means that the cat you purchase cannot be used for breeding
    purposes and you will sign a contract stating such.  I suppose a rare
    color like chocolate or lilac might make a kitten more marketable, but
    haven't heard of any cases of that happening.  Chocolate and lilac are
    dilute colors brought on by recessive genes; they are rarer than
    traditional seal and blue points.
    
    Breeder and show quality Himalayans can range anywhere from $500 on up,
    but if you're just looking for a loveable housecat, pet quality Himmies
    are just as beautiful as their show quality counterparts.
    
    Most people buy their kittens around 3-4 months of age, where cost will
    be the highest.  A breeder might "discount" the cost of an older kitten
    or young adult for the right home.  It really all depends on who you
    choose to do business with, so choose your breeder wisely!  Make sure
    he or she is in it for the best interest of the kitten, not to line his
    or her pockets.
    
    -Roberta
    

    I am finally going to get a chance to start shopping for a himmie.  It
    seems that I am always at the dance studio or ball field with my kids. 
    Anyway - I have come up with a list of things to check out (thanks to
    everyone's help)
    
    1.  Make sure I can see where the cats live and how the breeder
    interacts with them.
    
    2.  Make sure the cats have had their shots
    
    3.  Make sure breeder can provide a health certificate from vet
    
    4.  Make sure there is a guarantee on the cat.
    
    5.  Make sure I can afford it.
    
    
    Is there anything else I should add to this list?  It is important that
    I go prepared because I can just see myself going "How cute!  I just
    love her!  Isn't she the most darling little thing!  blah blah blah  -
    - and forgetting to ask the really important stuff.  It is going to be
    hard for me to think of this as a business transaction when I really
    think of it as an adoption.  But, I will have a talk with myself before
    I go and make sure that I control myself.
    
    Thanks once again for all your help!
    
    Teri

    Teri,
    
    Where do you live?  There's a cat show in Concord, NH this weekend
    at the Everett skating rink, right off ot 93.  There will be at LEAST
    two to three himalayan breeders there.  
    
    
    Holly
    

    I've got a Himalayan male seal point. The best cat I've ever had.
    Just recently I noticed his mask looks different apparently he's
    loosing some of his hair around the eye lids. Any input as to why?
    I coated both eyes with teramiacian hoping that helps. The cat is 
    approx 2 years and strictly an indoor cat.
    
    
    Henry.

    Holly,
    
    I live in Columbia, SC.  I don't think I'll be able to make it to
    Concord anytime soon.  But thanks anyway.
    
    Teri

    Teri,
    
    You seem to have all questions covered.  A lot of this stuff revolves
    around instinct... your intuition about a certain breeder and cattery
    will simply kick in as the two of you interact.  If you have any doubts
    at all, go with them.
    
    Years ago, a friend of mine who desperately wanted a Persian kitten
    visited a local breeder who had kittens for sale.  My friend had
    reservations about her as soon as she entered her home.  The woman
    would allow her only to sit in the living room while she brought the
    kittens out for viewing.  My friend, despite her hesitations, fell in
    love with a certain kitten and purchased it.  It died several months
    later and my friend was offered no recourse.  She kicked herself for a
    long time for not going with her gut feelings.
    
    When I purchased my Ragdoll, the breeder gave me a tour of her house
    and cattery (immaculate and spacious!), I got to hold and play with all
    the babies, see the parents and other siblings; she served us lunch,
    and sent us home with food and toys for the new kittens (and even food
    for us!).  I left there knowing that even if something went wrong (and
    it did), she would do the right thing, and she did.
    
    You'll just know, and if you have any reservations, act on them, not
    ignore them.
    
    Good luck!!
    
    -Roberta
    

    Just trying to catch up here!
    
    You will find that the breed is standardized differently for each
    organization.  As Holly said, in CFF they are separate from the
    Persian.  In CFA they used to be separate but are now classified as a
    separate division of Persian along with bi-colors, tabby etc.
    
    You can tell that a Persian is of Himmy heritage by the first numbers
    of it's registration.  
    
    As for the type, any good Himmy today has the exact same facial
    structure as the Persian.  I am talking about the extreme look that
    some of you don't care for.  As far as the breeders go this is the look
    that they want.  Anything that would fall short of this look would be
    considered a pet. 
    
    It sounds like you have a good start on what to look for when you are
    choosing a cat.  Make sure also, that you find out how much, when, and
    what type of food the breeder recommends.  This could be very important
    to keep kitties tummy from getting upset!  I have sold several kitties
    and the people listened to what I fed and then did their own thing. 
    This has not always been a wise choice.  At least it is correctable!
    Karen

    I have never thought Himalayan's were very adorable, but after meeting
    Valerie's two today I am a changed person. KC just loved my scarf and
    was pushing her face right up to mine and I thought how wonderful.
    
    Beau just purred away as I gave him some loving.  They are cute, and
    after knowing Val for so long, this is the first time I met her babies.
    
    Of course she is allergic to my domestications, but did indicate that I
    do have four pointed siamese strains.  But after seeing hers and how
    affectionate they are I don't know what I will do when I get home.
    
    My inn is full, but I would break down another wall for one of these
    guys.