Conference misery::feline

    I would guess that they need time.  And love and "no strings attached"
    attention -- and it sounds like you're doing just that.  My only
    experience with skittish cats is the three ferals I trapped in Maine.
    Though they were well fed, had fresh water and milk, they had never
    been touched by a human.
    
    When I trapped them last July, they were 2 months old.  And very
    frightened (scared of noises?  the sound of the havahart trap being
    sprung made ME jump, and I was inside the house).
    
    My domestication/discipline plan was simple.  Speak to the kitten with
    its name whenever you see the kitten.  Teach NO with the spray bottle,
    or if not handy, the nose tap and ear cuff (there's that word again).
    
    One of the kittens seemed to become sociable and domestic overnight. 
    She's now my hostess, and loves to have company.  She's affectionate on
    her own terms -- usually twice a day (morning coffee and evening news)
    she demands my lap and freely delivers head-butts.  
    
    
    Her brother?  During his first 2 weeks in the house he'd shiver, shake,
    spit, hiss, hump his sister, and miss the litterbox.  He'd be
    disciplined for his naughtiness, but loved and petted 5 extra times for
    each infraction.  After 2 weeks he suddenly became a total mush.  One
    of his favorite new tricks is to stand on my shoulders and attempt to
    roll all of his 11.5 pounds over my head while keeping his nose in my
    ear.
    
    But if company comes -- he grabs his appointment book and holds meetings
    under the bed.
    
    Their sister Shalimar -- very different from the first two.  She kept
    herself hidden for a long, long time.  Then, after a couple of months I
    noticed she was always around...always in the room somewhere, watching.
    I then decided that, everytime I saw her, I'd pick her up, pet her,
    then put her back down.  Now, almost 7 months after trapping her, she
    has just started to give head-butts.  She's always nearby, but still
    not comfortable on someone's lap.  Shalimar doesn't seem to mind
    strangers, but she doesn't seek them out, either.
    
    I believe I've treated them all the same way, and they all are
    different.  Both Silverado and her brother Jabba love, and reach up
    for, head scratchings -- sister Shalimar puts her ears back, squints
    her eyes, and ducks if your hand goes hear her head.  But she's never
    been hit.
    
    They get better everyday -- it just takes a long time.
    
    Jo-Ann

    It took several months for my Pussycat to become completely
    comfortable around me, and almost a year before he was comfortable
    around other people (then again, I don't have company very often,
    your results may differ).
    
    I find that all my cats know what the word No means -- I say it in
    a stern, slightly louder than usual voice;  nothing that approaches
    what I'd call yelling.
    
    On the other hand, I know Pussycat was once owned by someone (his teeth
    were discolored from, the vet said, being given an antibiotic when
    he was little).  Little Bit, who seems to have been wild since he
    was a kitten (I started glimpsing him in my yard around then) took
    almost a year to become totally comfortable around me.  Now he
    stands in front of me and meows and then runs to the middle of teh 
    living room rug (his "Authorized Petting Zone", to steal a term
    someone else used) and flops down and stretches his chin out for
    scratching.

    Oh, yes, cats can smell another animal's scent.  Whenever I come in
    from consorting with one of my cat nephews I have to stand still
    and stretch my hand out for sniffing.  It takes about three minutes
    for all the exploratory sniffing to be done to their satisfaction.
    

    Hi Cheryl -
    
    I don't have a lot of great advice here, just some experience to
    share. Poppy was a stray before we got her, and we don't know
    anything about her background except that she was hanging around
    a house in Manchester for some time. I don't know whether it's
    attributable to abuse or just having lived on the streets, but
    she was very skittish when we got her and remains so at times. 
    
    The other night, my husband tossed the newspaper onto the coffee
    table, and Poppy took off like a shot. Last night, I dropped my
    car keys onto the kitchen floor, and the same thing happened. 
    Some times, she crouches in the corner in that "keep away from 
    me" pose for no apparent reason and takes off if you go anywhere
    near her. 
    
    And, at other times, a bomb could go off under her basket, and
    she'd never move. The thing we've learned is to approach her
    under her terms -- let her decide when she wants affection and
    how. She has definite patterns -- very affectionate in the morning
    and at night, and she always, always sits on my husband's lap on
    Friday nights (don't ask me why). Respecting their wishes goes a 
    long way towards gaining their trust. When discipline is required, 
    I've found that giving a firm but gentle "no" and removing her from 
    what she's doing that's wrong work well and don't scare her, while 
    sudden movements and loud noises do. She also learned very quickly 
    what the squirt bottle was all about. I took it out the other day to 
    mist some bread that was baking and Poppy looked very puzzled, as if to
    say, "did that bread claw the sofa?"
    
    It sounds as if it will take some time to heal their wounds, but
    if you continue to show them you love them and will protect and
    care for them, their trust will grow. 
    
    kate
      

Though I don't have the "abuse" experience, I'd also suggest that time and
patience will probably do a lot towards changing their behavior.  Tigger came
from a mildly disfunctional environment, and was freaked out by unexpected
noises (except the can opener :-)).  He's gotten much better, and will now
stay and survey the damage he's caused rather than run from it :-) as well as
tolerate the microwave alarm and vacuum cleaner.  He was raised in a very
solitary environment, though, and still hides when we have guests, except for
my sister, who's been around enough for him to get to know her.  But he does
sometimes come out if he feels it's safe.  It's been four years, for some
perspective.

Jill

      I guess I agree basically with everything that's been said so
    far...and would only add that the behavior of an individual animal
    depends on the individual animal...whether they've been abused,
    neglected or not.
      My little "Stormy" absolutely HATES to be picked up!! She'll
    literally SCREAM if you pick her up, but she loves to be petted and
    will stand on the table purring and rubbing against you for hours if
    you're willing to pamper her. 
    
      Time will definitely diminish fear that may have been instilled by
    former abuse, but animals have different personalities, so they may
    just not ever warm up to strangers. A couple of mine are always among
    the missing when there are strange folks around...
    
    JM

    
    
      Hi,
    
         My best bet would be time, patience and alot of TLC.  My little
      girl I have had since she was a kitten, she is now 10yrs old (Tykey)
      and I have never hit her (sometimes I will say no in a stern voice
      and use the squirt bottle on her) but never raised a hand to her and
      I can still sometimes look at her the wrong way and she will run, she
      has never liked the sound of the vaccume.
      On the other hand Domino my big guy who I adopted awhile back, did
      not like alot of noises around the house at first either, he would
      get this look in his eyes unsure of whether or not to run or wait and see
      if i'm going to get attacked, he has since gotten used to most of the
      noises he did not like in the beginning, over the course of time he
      has learned to trust us and become very comfortable in his new home
      and I think this played a big part, once he was convinced that this
      was his home too.
     
      As far as holding goes, Tykey has never liked to be held for more
      than 10 seconds.  Domino does not like to be held either, BUT over
      the years Tykey still didn't care for it, but within the last 6 mos
      Domino will let us hold him more and more each day, we do it
    faithfully daily pick him up and hold him (against his will at first) but
    this way we have built a trust in him and he lets us hold him more now.
    
    Once in a blue moon our neighbors cat will come in our house while were
    going out the door and we put him right back out, well as soon as one
    of my kids come into the kitchen there noses are glued to the floor
    scoping out that strangers scent within "their" house...So I would say
    they can definitely smell other animals.
    
    I would say that it's only natural for an abused, stray etc animal to
    be fearful of another unknown situation,...I'd say keep those hugs and
    kisses going to them....Best of luck...
    
    Diana, Tykey, Domino......

    Well, one thing for certain is these cats really like us.  Last night,
    Zelda was on my right side and Chubs was on my left.  They had me
    pinned under the covers.  Chubs also likes to sleep on top of us at
    strange hours, such as 4AM.  When a fat cat does this, you can't help
    but wake up and notice.  :^)
    
    I hope they know that this is now their new home.  I wonder if they
    really know it or not?  They already have figured out our schedules and
    they seem to be adapting, slowly but surely.
    
    Lea is still a grump but she is handling the situation.  (hey, she's
    always been a grump, so what's the difference? :^)  The three of the
    cats are now able to be in the same room at the same time so we are
    making progress.  

    I have injured cats and always have at least one cat that I don't know
    how they are going to react to a discipline situation, in these cases we 
    have applied the "Time Out" principle to our cat's behavior.  
    
    We use our large dog-sized travel box (with the steel grid door) and
    when the cats do something unexceptable we put them in the time out box.
    It works!
    
    Moffet sits on the mantlepiece and swips off the bric-a-brack, in the
    time out box; Chuckie eats the dried flowers, in the time out box, etc.
    A bathroom could work as well, except I suspect they would have too
    much fun in there.  
    
    Try it!
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    FYI -
    [The principle of time out is undesired behavior is instantly delt with.  
    The child is put in a time out place (a chair or room that does not hold 
    interest for the child) for a finite length of time (30 seconds or 2 or
    more minutes) where they have to sit still until the time is up.  Don't 
    let the situation progress to the point where you lose your temper,
    don't use threats, handle it right up front and be consistent.]
    

    Well, I have to laugh about entering the base note.  You'd never know
    that Chubs and Zelda were suffering from neglect and once feared
    strangers.  They are turning out to be extremely friendly and social
    animals with hardly any fears.  The kitchen (egg) timer no longer
    startles them; doorbells mean strangers coming to visit which equates
    to more laps to snuggle in; early morning alarm clocks buzzing mean
    food is soon to follow, etc.  Even Lea has adapted to them and vice
    versa!  

Well, obviously, they have shown  you the proper way to treat abused and
neglected cats....spoil them, laugh at their antics, tickle them on the
tummy - often.  And voilla!  Two happy, friendly cats.

		So good to hear the success stories...

				D