Conference misery::feline

    Is this in the front legs or the back legs?  I think this is called
    Patellar Luxation.  I will check my books tonight and see what I can
    find out about it.  I know that this has been a problem in some of the
    breeds, Chartreux for example.
    
    Jo

    It's his hind legs that bother him.  Chubs sits "10 of 2" on his back
    legs.  Just imagine the diagram as being an aerial shot of Chubbabubba.
    (a much larger screen is needed to draw his belly! :^)
                	.   .
    			|   |	front legs
    
    		       .     .   
    			\   /   back legs
    
    We suspect that his fat stomach is what makes him sit with his legs
    like that.  My vet used a very long term and then said "it's also
    called slipped knee".
    
    After putting in last night's note, I went downstairs to find Chubs. 
    He was limping.  I proceed to show my husband where Chubs' leg goes out
    of place and suddenly felt something move.  Good old Chubs, I had
    unknowingly put his leg back in the socket for him! 

    I know what exactly you are talking about... my cat Dory had it in 
    both her back legs. What would happen when they went out of socket 
    was that they would stick straight out behind her and she would stand (lean)
    on her front legs. It was very painful when it happened to her, and 
    terrible to see.
    
    The vet performed an operation on her about four years ago which helped 
    her tremendously. The result of the operation is that she can run, jump
    etc but she can never go outside again as her legs are not perfect -
    nor did I expect then to be perfect. She is a lucky cat to just be
    able to get around without pain. 
    
    When she runs, her front legs "run" and her back legs "hop" and sometimes
    her back legs overtake her front ones and she trips up herself.
    Actually it is kind of funny -  she just gets back up and takes off
    again. She could not make it on the outside because she could never
    outrun a dog or other animal, could not beat a car across the street,
    and would just plain get in trouble. The only way she can "climb" is
    by the use of her front legs pulling up the rest of her body. But she
    has overcome all these difficulties and she thinks she is  in
    "ace" condition.
    
    She also cannot scratch her neck or ears because she cannot control
    her legs that well. So I when I see she has an itch (she tilts her
    head in a weird position) I reach over and give her a good scratch.
                                                           
    I will note that when she had the operation she also threw a blood
    clot in one of her legs which made the recovery alot longer duration.
    
    Also, she cannot get her butt down when using the litter box - so I
    have had to improvise to keep the litter area clean. She cannot use
    a covered box because her legs wobble back and forth while she is
    doing her "thing" and the box is too confining to her. Sometimes she
    just tips over when trying to use the box and falls out.
    
    And when she sits her back legs are positioned like Chubs' legs- even
    after the operation.
    
    Even with all these drawbacks I would still recommend getting the 
    operation if that is what your vet advises. How often do Chubs legs
    go out of joint? Dory's was at least once a day every day.
    
       
    Pat

    We've seen it happen two or three times in the 10 days that we've had
    Chubs.  His symptoms aren't as obvious as your cat cause you can't tell
    when something has happened to one of Chubs legs.  He limps but it's
    not obvious that something is terribly wrong.  You said your cat's leg
    will stick straight out but Chubs doesn't do that.  

    My vet seems to think that he'll be much better once he gets a few
    extra pounds off of him.  He's down to 14.6 now and appears to be doing
    better.  What size is your cat?

    I cannot tell what type of activity Chubs is doing when his leg pops
    out.  It appears to happen when he stands up after taking a catnap.  My
    husband has caught Chubs up on our dining room shelves, and that's a
    good 4-5 foot jump for starters, so he is certainly able to do some
    climbing.  From the looks of him, you'd never know he has this
    handicap.  He is quite able to get to his food dishes no matter what! 
    (Holstein is what the vet calls our little baby cow :^)

    We are very careful now when we pick him up and try to treat him as
    though he's very fragile.  He is a very laid back cat, compared to his
    sister, and does not spend an ounce of extra energy if he doesn't have
    to.  Well, that's not quite entirely true - he is always the first one
    to make it to the cat dishes in the morning.  :^)  When we play with a
    rope in the evening, Zelda has very kittenlike characteristics and will
    pounce on the rope and chase it everywhere.  Chubs just lies there and
    looks up at you as if to say "please bring it closer so I don't have to
    get up to reach it".  He has a very low energy level (with the minor
    exception of his antics with chasing a ping pong ball at 4AM).  I
    remember last Sunday when we brought Chubs and Zelda home.  I threw a
    ball towards Chubs and he got up and sat on it like he was a bird
    trying to hatch an egg.  We about lost it when he did that!  Now he
    has learned that he is supposed to chase them.  :^)  Trying to get this
    cat to exercise is next to impossible!

    Chu8bs sounds like my Sweetie....  
    

    Chubs sounds like her is doing okay.  Dory's case was very severe so
    an operation was necessary. She isn't a big cat - about 6 pounds. She
    isn't super active - but does like to run down the hall. She will play
    with Francis (my other cat) but he is 16 pounds and frequently too
    rough for her.
    
    Dory will climb but it can only be on somthing into which she can dig her
    front claws. Sometimes I'll find her at the top of the cat condo which
    is about 5 feet tall and covered with carpet. Getting down is a trick-
    she hops onto the chest of drawers, then onto a shelf under the window,
    then onto my bed, and finally to the floor.
    
    Well, hopefully Chubs will do alot better after he sheds that extra
    weight (don't we all??).
    
    Pat
    

    The condition is called a "luxated patella".  My tortoise-shell Luna had it 
    when she was still a kitten...about six or seven months old.
    
    First, one hind knee popped and then both gave way.  The poor girl walked 
    with a bow-legged stride.  I had my veterinarian take xrays, and
    nothing was broken.  He told me that this could be a congenital defect 
    for which she would have to grow out.  He told me not to allow
    her to run and jump around the house.  That was easier said than done.
    
    For two months I had to isolate her from the rest of the house in a
    room, and she cried a lot for attention when we weren't with her in the
    room.   Anyway, with the help of some herbal medicine from my
    acupunturist, Luna finally regained strength in her knees.  Now at 1�,
    she is a happy little terror in the house.  I'm just glad she didn't
    require surgery.
    
    Bobby

    Knock on wood!  Chubs hasn't limped for several weeks!  Although he
    could stand to lose a few pounds, he seems to be more active than he
    was a few months ago.  The fact that we put up a few bird feeders in
    the back yard might have something to do with this.  :^)  He runs from
    window to window chirping at the birds, getting lots of exercise.  He
    also chases Lea around the house whenever he gets the chance! 
    
    Hopefully his increased energy level will be enough to keep him active
    and not require surgery.  Gee, maybe he needs a kitten to play with. 
    :^) :^)

	A little note from far away (Netherlands) on the item of
	'slipped knees' as you call it. As a member of the Dutch
	Maine Coon Club we did an item on 'patella luxation' in
	our magazine (Jo got a mail from me).

	'Patella Luxation' is an genetic defect among different
	breeds (found with Abessinian, Rex and now recently discovered with
	some Maine Coons in Holland). It has to do with the kneecap
	in front- and/or back-legs. The kneecap can be pushed inwards
	if the cat is standing with little force (otherwise even
	my kneecap can be pushed away !!). If the patella is shifted and
	it's not returning to its original position then you should
	contact your vet for further examination.
	Although it's very rare it is still a very nasty thing.
	From the age of 3 months you can test your cat if you
	think there's something wrong. Although it can improve as the
	cat gets older (stronger muscles !!) be sure to examine your
	cat when it is about 1 year old.
	Every vet who has cats in his practice can determine the
	state of patella.
	
	There are 4 kinds of patella which varies from minor to severe
	(which can be fixed with an operation). For breeders it is unlucky 
	to have a cat with patella, because this cat can no longer be
	in your breeding-program (if you're wise !!) because of the
	genetic structure.


	Not every cat is showing the defect although it can carry it in 
	her/his genes. So, for instance, a male and female with no
	visible signs of patella can give off-spring with patella.
	For choosing a mate (unknown to you) ask the owner for a
	patella luxation examination if you're want to be sure. 

				Erwin Moll.	

    Erwin, interesting that you mention this happens with Maine Coons.  My
    vet said that is mostly likely what Chubs is!  We don't know much of
    his history because he and his sister were abandoned.  Let's just hope
    surgery won't be necessary since Chubs has already been through too
    much in his life!

    Is this inwards as towards the back of the leg, or inwards as towards
    the other leg?
    

	A little explanation on the 'patella' (kneecap):

	state of patella luxatiuon:	
	1.
	The patella can be shifted inwards (to the other leg) if the
	leg is stretched and the foot is turned outside.

	2.
	It shifts while the cat is walking (it limbs for a moment so
	that the patella can return to it's original place)

	3.
	Patella is permanently displaced but can be replaced (with a little
	help from friends)

	4. 
	It keeps displaced and the knee is stiff and bowed.

	My vet has never encountered the last two states with cats, but
	with dogs he encoutered them regularly.

    I have a friend that had to have her Chartreux female spayed because it
    was discovered the line carried Patellar Luxation.  It was very sad for
    her, as the female was her first breeding cat.  But, this is the type
    of thing that you don't want to perpetuate.
    
    Jo