Conference misery::feline

       Have done so MANY times...currently our pack consists of 11 dogs and
    4 cats...and all live together very harmoniously and happily. In fact,
    it's nothing to see three-four dogs sprawled out getting ZZZZ's and in
    the middle of all of them to see a cat sacked-out on it's back with
    it's feet sticking up in the air..
    
      If the animals aren't USED to each other---whether it's dogs OR cats,
    it's likely going to take some time for them to sort things out. In the
    case of a puppy, there is also a tremendous amount of energy and
    exhuberance that comes into the picture, and that can be sort of hectic
    at times. While there IS some danger that the puppy's eyes can be
    damaged if the cat gets REAL nasty, in most cases the best cure for the
    pup getting to fresh with the cats is to have her get nailed a few
    times...My dogs all learned that cats are NOT to be messed around with
    unless they want to play, and the way to tell that they do NOT want to
    play is to make sure they back-off FAST when they hear that HISSS!!!
    Most of mine have nursed little rips in their noses, and luckily none
    has ever had any eye cuts or scratches. Now they sort of
    live-and-let-live and get along fine. In fact, the cats won't even
    drink out of "their" cat dish, but prefer to drink with the dogs out of
    the dog pan....
    
      John Mcd 

       One other thing...A BIG factor in the dog-cat relationship is to
    make sure the cats have a "place" where they can retreat to and that
    the dog cannot get to. What we do is "recycle" a few broken plastic
    laundry baskets. we fill them half-full with worn out towels, T-shirts
    and other soft, clean rags...and they are on the dining room table when
    it's not in use. The cats absolutely love these "thrones", and there
    are usually at least a couple of them in one or the other of these
    baskets...gives them security and a warm, soft place to sack-out..
    JM

    The people across the street from us have 3 cats - Woodstock, Charlie
    and Miss Lucy, and a huge black lab/Irish setter named Toby.  Woody &
    Charlie are both older (Woody is about 10 years old), Toby is about 5
    and Miss Lucy is just over a year old.  And they all play together.
    
    K.C.

      We are in the process of integration in our household.  Or at least
    trying to anyway.  We adopted a beautiful Samoyed from a very
    neglectful situation in October.  At that time, the cats set down the
    rules that NO dog would be allowed in THEIR house!  A couple of times
    I've brought the dog into the kitchen, which is a very large room, but
    the cats, by chance haven't been in there at the same time.  Well,
    today, they were.  I brought Sammy to the kitchen door so I could him
    a chew bone before I left for work.  He sat right down on the floor
    by the door and was being a perfectly good doggie when Sheba, my 
    half-Siamese black lightening bolt charged across the room from her
    chair and landed on his head savagely attacking him.  All the other
    cats happened to be there too and were puffed up to 6 times their
    normal size, growling and hissing in tones I've never heard before!
    I got the bone and skeedaddled out of there fast.  Poor Sammy!  Good
    thing he's got 1 foot thick fur on him.....oh well, we'll try again.
    
                    Denise and the gang of 11 dog terrorists

    Well, the time has finally come.  As of this weekend, two dogs joined
    our home to live for an indefinite length of time.  My husband's mother
    is in the hospital and we had to take their two Lhasos in until she
    recovers, which could be anywhere from 3 weeks to whenever.
    
    I tried to tell the cats that these are not REAL dogs, just wind up
    toys that look like dogs but they didn't buy it!!  :^).  Two dogs and
    five cats in a fairly small townhome = major stress for everyone,
    humans included!
    
    The two worst are TK and Nikki.  They are so upset that they won't come
    into the house on their own.  I have to go outside and get them myself,
    but not without a struggle.  Taja and Kelsey are more put out than
    anything else.  They will at least roam the house with the dogs there. 
    Herbie, who I thought would be the most timid, is fascinated with them. 
    He stalks them all wide-eyed and tries to sniff their behinds but these
    dogs aren't used to cats and will start to chase him away.  He'll run,
    then come right back for more!!  Yesterday morning we had two dogs and
    Herbie on the bed with us.
    
    The worst part is keeping the dogs out of the cat food.  I can't free
    feed in certain rooms anymore.  We put a door on the cellar and propped
    it open so only cats can get through, and they go downstairs to use the
    litterbox and eat.  Canned food has to stay on the counter, or the dogs
    go into another room while the cats are eating.  The dogs think
    anything put down for the cats is fair game.  I had forgetten how tough
    it was even though I grew up in a home with both cats and dogs!!
    
    The dogs stay in the second bedroom while we are at work so the cats
    can have their house back!!  They are not happy campers, and I feel bad
    for them.  We do want a dog someday but were hoping to have a larger
    home with sufficent isolation quarters and a fenced yard.  Walking two
    dogs in this cold weather is not fun stuff!!
    
    I figure by the time the cats get used to the dogs it will be time for
    them to leave!  Oh, well, maybe this is a good acclimation lesson in
    the meantime.
    
    -Roberta (close to insanity by now)
    

    Roberta-
    
    I'll trade ya!  You can walk my two horses, and I'll
    walk the two dogs! (:
    
    Nothing colder then filling water troughs at 6:00am
    at 12 df w/ a -3 windchill!  Brrrrr......
    
    L-

    We put down canned food twice a day, and the dog goes either her crate
    or out in the yard until the canned food is eaten.  The cats know that
    once we let the dog back in the canned food is history, so they eat it
    when it goes down.  We free feed dry food, which is placed on an extra
    counter in the kitchen while Annie is inside.  The dog and cats share
    a water bowl, which is huge, and I was it out with chlorox and water
    and refill it once a day.
    
    Are the Lhaso's crate trained?  Can you crate train them?
    
    Jo

    Yup, they are crate trained and housebroken.  I keep their crates in
    the spare bedroom with then while we are at work but do not confine
    them in there, just leave the doors open.  I have been checking on them
    during lunch hours just to be safe and they are doing okay.
    
    I have to be quicker about picking up cat food before the dogs can get
    it :^).  Maybe putting them in their crates while the cats are eating
    is a wise idea.
    
    When the dogs get the cat food, they snarf it down so fast that the
    cats just look at them with digust!.  I am sure they are thinking,
    "what utterly dispicable creatures!"
    

Sadie (dog) has a feeding station in the house and that is the only place she
EVER gets food.  The cats have a feeding station on top of a chest of three
drawers that I purchased for just this purpose.  I put a dining room chair
next to the chest for the older/fatter family members to help them get up
there.  I free feed dry food with no problem...but then, Sadie also cannot
go into the "cat room" = the living room...she has run of the family room
and the rest of her part of the house (hallway, my room where she sleeps)...
but she never goes, nor has she ever gone into the living room...although it
is an open area with a step down, it has an invisible fence around it as
far as Sadie is concerned - I taught her that from day 1.  Therefore, the
kitty litter and the cat food are out of her reach.  It is just a matter
of training - by this I mean preventing the animal from ever getting into
the area when you aren't around and supporting a consistent discipline when
you are...as we don't really spend time in the living room except when we
have guests or when I play with the cats, it isn't a hardship.

I feed canned food to the two thinner cats - a little once a day as an
appetite encourager - and that is fed in the third bedroom ...removes the
temptation from the fat cats and the dog.

    How would I go about introducing a dog to their cats upon arrival?  By
    putting the dog in it's crate & letting the felines smell her or what?
    Help is needed.... I'm bringing a 1 yr old German Shepherd home
    tomorrow night & don't want to shock the kitties any more than I have
    to.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Sonia
    

    If it is'nt the first dog in their life, your cats won't take it too
    hard, I guess. (At least our cat did not when we introduced him our new
    puppy. He realised it was a dog and that was to it.)
    If it is the first and I were you I wouldn't close the dog into the
    crate: it's not only the cats who have to get used to the new-comer,
    but also vice versa. Arrange this first meeting inside the house (so
    that the cats can easily find shelter if they want to) and just let
    them meet. Or if you're afraid to let the dog free at once, first hold
    him on (long!) leash and see how he gets on with your kitties. But not
    the crate...
    
    But no matter how they take it, at least YOU should take it easy.. :-)
    
    Orsolya Nagy
    

    I'm looking for ANY suggestions here... I have two small dogs
    (shelties) one very big cat (Spike) and added another "getting bigger
    every day" tiger cat (Brutus) a couple of months ago.  Spike and the
    dogs have an understanding (if the dogs mees with Spike, he can nail
    them because he is as big as they are, and has a much bigger attitude).
    But Brutus is another story all together!  He gets along fine with one
    of the dogs, but with the otehr dog, he just plain hates him!  I had to
    have him declawed because he scratched the dog across the nose and over
    the eye several times (the dog has no front teeth, so he's not relaly a
    danger to the cat).  Brutus literally searches the dog out and attacks
    him.  I'm at my wit's end with these two.  I've tried spraying the cat
    with a squirt gun, but he is oblivious to it.  Even when I call the dog
    away, Brutus follows him and jumps him from behind.  The dog also has a
    bad hip, and frequently in his attempts to get away from the cat he
    pops his hip out of joint.  Geesh!  I've never seen a cat so aggressive
    towards a dog before!  The other dog is his buddy...he rubs against him
    and sleeps with him.  Other than keeping them separate when alone, does
    anybody have ANY ideas on what I can do to make it tolerable for the
    rest of the household?  Getting rid of either is out of the question.
    The dog is elderly and has several health problems, and the cat, well,
    I don't have to explain in the FELINE conference why I'm keeping the cat
    : ) HELP!!
    Sarah

>   Geesh!  I've never seen a cat so aggressive
>    towards a dog before!  

	They are around, my brothers cat hated dogs, would wait on the front 
	garden, which was about 3 feet up from the pavement, and jump and 
	attack any dog that went past.........but he was friendly with a fox 
	that used to come into the back garden!!!!!


	Anyway, your cat obviously notices something different between the
	two dogs.

	Look at the two dogs, and see if they behave differently.
	The dog may stirr up unpleasant memories because of the way it behaves
	or it smells.

	Try bathing the dogs at the same time, with the same stuff, so they 
	have the same smell.

	Try putting a leash on the cat, and pull her away if she starts to go 
	for the dog.

	Chat to your vet to see if they have any ideas, is he being treated
	for his health problems? could the cat be responding to this somehow?

	Heather

    One of our cats HATES dogs.
    
    One morning I was just leaving for work, getting in the car, when I
    saw an Alsatian run past the gate, with this cat right up behind him.
    
    On another occasion, a couple of years ago we were sitting at home one
    summer evening with all the windows open when we heard this woman
    outside screaming. We dashed outside wondering what the hell was going on.
    
    A man and woman were walking their dog on a lead, and our cat had jumped
    onto the back of this medium sized dog. The cat was hanging round his neck
    swiping at his nose. They were just standing there, the man struck dumb
    and the woman screaming and in tears.
    
    I had to grab the cat by the scruff of the neck and drag him off. We
    returned sheepishly inside having apologised for our cat and his
    behaviour. Unknown dog walkers disappear rapidly in another direction.
    
    Geoff
    
    
    

    I'm really at my wit's end with these two.  Last night my husband and I
    were discussing possible reasons why Brutus just plain hates Bandit
    (the dog) and I said, in ALL SERIOUSNESS, mind you, "Maybe Bandit said
    something to Brutus that he just didn't like?"  That's how bad it's
    getting...I'm imagining a conversation between Brutus the Cat and
    Bandit the Dog, something like this:
    
    Bandit : "You know, I was here first and she paid GOOD MONEY for me.
    You're just a raggedy old stray cat that she let in the door"
    
    Brutus : "Oh yeah? Well, take THAT! AND THAT! You old Geezer! I'm
    younger and smarter and more agile and I'm gonna make your life
    miserable...every corner you turn, I'll be right there...watching you,
    and sometimes I'll even JUMP on you...and I'll scare you because I can
    fit behind the stove and you won't even see me...and I'll eat all your
    dog food, too!"
    
    Sometimes ya' just gotta laugh : ) If anybody can come up with another
    way besides the squirt gun and the empty can full of rocks to try and
    get Brutus away from Bandit when they start up, maybe some behavior
    modification will work.  So far the can and the water have no effect...
    
    Sarah

    I'm sure some skeptic will judge this a shameless anthropomorphization
    (a18n?), but I think some cats can be very jealous and can detect
    the slightest deference to another animal.  If Dog Bandit has been
    around for a long time, there's almost certainly some behavioral
    manifestations of it on your part, that Cat Brutus may be responding to.
    So your fantasized "conversation" may not be far off the mark.  Brutus
    may even interpret your intervention as evidence of Bandit's "elevated"
    status.
    
    Try showing Brutus unconditional affection in Bandit's presence. 
    Bandit seems mellow enough to tolerate it, and it may convince Brutus
    that you love him just as much.
    
    len.
      

    I have a new dog in the house (Hi Sandy, wait till you hear this!), who
    has just gone into heat (YIKES).  Now all of a sudden "somebody" is
    peeing in the house!  I also have 2 other dogs and 2 big cats, so it
    has taken a couple of days to figure out who.  I crated all the dogs,
    and discovered more pee, in the EXACT same spot, this morning, so it
    has to be one of the cats.  Do cats react to dogs in heat?  The cats
    are both neutered males, if that sets off any light bulbs in anyone
    head.  I don't know if it's a hormone thing between species, or if one
    of the cats is having a tizzy over the new dog...
    Sarah 

    
    More likely that one of the cats is in a tizzy over the new dog!
    
    

    Gee Sarah...Betty really brought you some excitement when she
    joined your household.    For those that do not know...Sarah was
    very kind to adopt a Cairne Terrier that my husband rescued from
    Fitchburg.   The poor pup was running aimlessly down RT 12 one
    morning...and was not in good shape!!! (filthy, flea infested
    and frozen)
    
    I don't know if cats react to Dogs in heat...but it could be as
    Lynne says "the cats are in a tizzy" or it could be a begining
    of a medical problem with your kitty.   I'd keep your eyes on
    your kitties in the next few days!!    And I bet Betty will be
    going to the vets real SOON!!
    
    Sandy
    

    Was wondering something else...are there any diseases that dogs
    can get from cats and vise versa???
    
    TJ

    Ok maybe I should rephrase my question....:-) any other 
    diseases besides rabies and distemper cats and dogs could
    "give" eachother???
    
    TJ

    hmmm...my guess is ringworm could be spread between
    cats and dogs....but I'm not sure about roundworms or
    tape worms.  I would assume they could!!!
    
    Sandy

    Just read through these notes on dog/cat relationships. I think
    I have the opposite problem from most, in that it's the cat I'm
    worried about. We just introduced a 7-year old Ragdoll cat to a house
    with a 100+ pound 1 1/2 year old golden retriever. He hates cats and
    has one neighbor thinking he's out to kill hers.
    Unfortunately, our new cat is used to dogs and is definitely not a 
    fighter. The dog is not used to cats, and I'm afraid he'll do a number
    on the cat. He needs a good slice on the nose to set things straight,
    but this cat is too easy-going. I guess my only hope is gradually
    putting the two in proximity with the dog on a leash. Any other
    proven methods out there?

    Re: .23
    I'm worried about this, because my impression is that dogs and
    cats learn early in life what is "prey" and what isn't.  I
    suspect that an adult dog who
    hates cats will always be a danger to cats.  Perhaps your vet
    could tell you.
    

    My golden used to go after cats as well, and we had a 25-year old Maine
    Coon who would NOT reach out and whack her on the nose when she got too
    close.  It took us over a year to train Cally that the cat was
    off-limits.  She never transferred that message to cats in general, and
    she always  had to be watched around cats.  When the Coon cat died and
    we got another stray kitty, *he* had the gumption to whack her on the
    nose and set the record straight.  No problem there, but she still
    didn't get the fact that cats in general were off limits.  Now Cally was 
    not the brightest star in the universe, so your mileage may vary.  
    
    *Constant* supervision and immediate action (scolding, yelling,
    distraction, etc) were required to teach Cally to leave the cat alone. 
    In the beginning, Cally wore a leash all the time so that if we had to
    we could grab her as she was taking off after the cat.  Hidey-holes for
    the cat are highly recommended (dog-proof ones!).  
    
    It's important that the CAT stays alpha, and the dog gets lowest in
    pack status.  Don't cage your cat - restrain your dog.  
    
    Hope this helps - it isn't easy.
    
    Dana

    
    Does anyone have the address for the Canine notesfile?
    
    thanks in advance!
    
    MJ

    Hi,
    
    	It's HUMANE::CANINE
    
    Hope That help's
    
    David

    
    
    thanks very much!!!
    
    mj