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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

1367.0. "Bootleg cds" by PDVAX::P_DAVIS (Peter Davis) Wed Nov 02 1988 08:13

    There are bootleg cds.  I've recently heard the Beatles' "Ultra Rare
    Trax" vols. 1 and 2 and the "Off White" album.  These are discussed in
    the latest issue of ICE (see note 1324).
    
    "Ultra Rare Trax" is mostly alternate takes and unreleased songs
    spanning the entire Beatles' career.  The sound quality ranges from
    good to AMAZING ... much, MUCH better than the officially released
    Beatles' cds.  These tracks were all taken from studio masters or
    acetate.  The disks are only a little over 30 minutes each.  I've heard
    rumors of a one-disk version containing all these tracks plus a few
    more, but no one seems to have it.
    
    What bothers me about this is that it really proves that EMI/Capitol
    could have done a much better job with it's officially released cds. 
    My theory is that they made a deal with Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs so
    that, after sales of the EMI/Capitol disks drop off, MFSL will release
    their digitally re-mastered versions, and everyone will have to buy
    these recordings twice.
    
    "Off White" is outtakes from the "The Beatles" album, commonly known as
    the "white" album.  The sound quality is poor to fair, but it's
    interesting material.
    
    NOTE:  Bootlegs are illegal, since they are unauthorized and the
    artists and recording companies get no royalties, profits, etc.  I'm
    not advocating purchase of these cds, and I'm not listing sources of
    these disks.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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1367.1Smiths' live bootlegVIA::KARDONSomeone's been a bit untidyWed Nov 02 1988 14:1214
    A few months ago I saw a bootleg live Smiths disk in Newbury Comics
    in Boston.  I think the title was "Better Live Than Dead".  This
    was right about the time that the Smiths (who had just broken up)
    were rumored to be preparing to release a live album.  I almost
    bought it, but the fact that *EVERY* song listed on the back of
    the disk was spelled wrong and the name of the band was spelled
    "The Smith's" finally tipped my off (I wasn't looking too closely).
    
    The disk was going for about $20 - standard import rate (and was
    labeled as an import).  Although curious, I opted to wait for the
    official release.  I'm not completely convinced that this boot was
    just a copy of what was eventually released as "Rank".
    
    -Scott
1367.2Ultra TraxWFOOFF::ROBERTS_DThu Nov 10 1988 05:52229
Have I got news!  Friday I received two more Beatles Boots in the mail.  It
was a two CD set called ULTRA RARE TRAX, Volumes 1 and 2.  To sum it up in one
word -- fantastic!  The sound qaulity of these two discs nearly rivals that of
the EMI/Capitol CD releases.  Roughly 90% of the material on these two CDs
was mastered from tape.  The remaining tracks were mastered from vinyl.
 
The material on these two consists of outtakes and alternate versions of 
generally familiar work.  A few of the tracks also appear on the "new"
Sessions CD.  Here is a rundown of the tracks, as well as the description
printed on the "liner notes".
 
1. I Saw Her Standing There [Take 2]
Recorded 02/11/63 from the "Please Please Me" sessions.  Continued from 
warming up, they start a great live performance in the studio.  John makes a
mistake with some lyrics and Paul makes a mistake with some bass lines.
 
2. One After 909 [Take 2]
Recorded 03/05/63, during the "From Me To You" session.  Released on the "Let
It Be" album in 1970, but this take is absolutely different.
 
3. She's A Woman [Take 2]
Recorded September-October 1964. No lead guitar, piano, or additional over-
dubbed vocals.  No fade-out at the end.  Very primitive version.
 
4. I'm Looking Through You [Take 1]
Recorded October 1965 from "Rubber Soul" sessions.  No chorus made yet.  Begin-
ning with percussion, vocals on single track.  No fade-out at the end.
 
5. If You've Got Troubles
Previously unreleased track.  Recorded October 1965 during "Rubber Soul"
sessions.  Ringo on vocals.
 
6. How Do You Do It?
Previously unreleased track.  Recorded 09/04/62, from "Please Please Me" 
session.  Prepared as a second single, but never released.
 
7. Penny Lane
Recorded 12/29/66.  bBasically the same version as on "Rarities" album, but 
including dialogue and Paul's count at the beginning.  An absolutely different
MONO mix. {BTW, this one has the extra few bars of horns at the end.}
 
8. Strawberry Fields Forever
This is the faster "B" version recorded in the key of C.  Recorded December 
1966.
 
9. From Me To You
Recorded March 4th-5th 1963, beginning with Paul's count "1, 2, 3, 4!".  No
harmonica.  Absolutely different.
 
10. Besame Mucho
Recorded June 6th 1962, with Pete Best on Drums.  A different take from the
"Decca Tapes".
 
11. Fool On The Hill [Demo version]
Recorded September 1967.  Paul performs solo on the piano.
 
12. Paperback Writer
Recorded April 1966.  Beginning with Paul's count "1, 2, 3, 4!" on the right 
channel.  Same as the single, but a different mix, no echo effects on vocals,
and no fade-out at the end.
 
BTW, the information above refers to ULTRA RARE TRAX VOLUME 1.  Another very
interesting thing about it is that many of these are STEREO mixes of tracks
released in MONO on the "official" Beatles CDs.  Here's the Mono/Stereo
breakdown from URTV1:
Tracks 1-5, 8, 9, 11, 12 -- Stereo
Trakcs 6, 7, 10 -- Mono.
 
ULTRA RARE TRAX Volume 2
 
1. Can't Buy Me Love (Stereo)
Recorded 01/29/64.  Absolutely different with no echo.  Wonderful choral voacals
by John and George.  Paul makes a mistake with some lyrics.  Supposed to be the
BEST TAKE!
 
2. There's A Place [Take 3] (Stereo)
Recorded 02/11/63, during the "Please Please Me" session.  Intro vocals only.
 
3. There's A Place [Take 4] (Stereo)
Continued from Take 3.  Absolutely different with no harmonica or piano.  A
great live performance in the studio!
 
4. That Means A Lot (Stereo)
Previously unreleased siong.  Recorded in February 1965, from the 2nd "Help"
sessionb.  Paul McCartney on lead vocals.
 
5. Day Tripper [1] (Stereo)
Recorded 10/16/65.  Instrumental without tambourine or lead guitar.  Absolutely
different, supposed to be the first basic.  Not complete.
 
6. Day Tripper [2] (Stereo)
Continued from [1].  Starting with Paul's count "1, 2, 3, 4!".  Basically the
same version as the previously released one, but no additional vocals dubbed
by Paul.  No fade-out at the end.
 
7. I Am The Walrus (Mono)
Recorded in September 1967, from "Magical Mystery Tour" sessions.  Un-edited 
and long version without strings, bass guitar, choral , or side vocals.
 
8. Misery [Take 1] (Stereo)
Recorded 02/11/63, from "Please Please Me" session.  Absolutely different 
without piano of echo effects.
 
9. Leave My Kitten Alone (Mono) 
Previously unreleased track, recorded 08/05/64 from "Beatles For Sale" sessions.John Lennon on lead vocals.
 
10. We Can Work It Out (Stereo)
Recorded 10/20/65.  Begins with Paul's count "1, 2, 3, 4!", and has a louder
keyboard sound.  Vocal on both channels.  Fade out at the end.
 
11. A Hard Day's Night (Stereo)
Recorded 04/16/64 during "A Hard Day's Night" sessions.  Live performance in
the studio.  Absolutely different without acoustic or gat guitars, or piano.
 
12. Norwegian Wood [Take 4] (Stereo)
Recorded October 1965 during "Rubber Soul" sessions.  Basically the same as
the released take, though John makes a mistake with his acoustic guitar twice
during the intro, and says, "I showed ya!" at the end.  George Martin replies
"GREAT, FINE!".  Unedited version.
 
As I said, the sound quality of these two boots is
startling.  I'm impressed.  The only drawback is that they are rather short,
about 30 minutes each.  These two would've easily fit on one CD, but then
this isn't the first time we've seen this situation, is it?  The label is
"Swingin' Pig Records" and the catalog numbers are TSP CD-001, and TSP CD-002,
respectively.
 
This months issue of the ICE (International CD Exchange) newsletter has a 
"feature story" on the ULTRA RARE TRAXs CDs, which praises them highly.
It mentions the
other well-known boots (Sessions, Get Back, and Songs From The Past) and 
compares the quality of these.  Interesting reading.  
Ahem........
 
Two reasons why I will never listen to my beatleg records again:
 
	1) Ultra Rare Trax Volume 1
and:
	2) Ultra Rare Trax Volume 2
 
I have finally experienced an auralgasm.........
 
Seriously, tho' folks, these two CDs are UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!
 
While the quality rivals the `official' CD releases, (there is some tape hiss)
the material is more than one could hope for. A lot of the tunes have been
released on Sessions (version 1 & 2), the majority are never-heard-before
alternate takes. 
 
`I Saw Her Standing There', `Can't Buy Me Love' & `From Me To You' (slow 
version) are currently my faves (all in living stereo BTW). I'm sure that
my faves will alternate every time I listen to them again   :-)
 
Drop what you are doing and go out and find these treasures...RIGHT NOW!

Pete Auseklis already posted a review of URT, but I thought I'd add my bit.
Please refer to his posting for a complete track listing plus notes (I will
re-post it if demand warrants it).
 
These CDs are so good, that during `There's A Place' you can hear Ringo's
bass drum pedal squeaking (how's that, Jay?). Now go listen to `Words Of
Love' (Beatles For Sale). You can here Ringo's squeaky pedal there, also.
(We should get that boy some oil!!  ;-). What more can I say about the 
quality? 
 
The track with the most hiss on it is `Penny Lane' (this is a
different mix of the MONO promo with the seven extra trumpet notes in the
end part). But it still sounds better than my promo 45 (which is in excellent
shape). The hiss is NOT that objectionable, but I thought that in the interest
of honest reporting and credibility, I would mention it. This track is not
the same quality as the released version.........although fully 75% of the
tracks are.
 
I can now begin to understand why there is a drop-out in the last verse of
`Day Tripper'. Sure enough, there's a little nit in the lead guitar track
(obviously a bad spot on the tape itself). It sounds like a high frequency
`zip' with a sharp rise time. It only lasts for a few milli-seconds, but
it was obviously noticable enough to cause George Martin to edit an entire
note out of George H.'s lead guitar track. He should have made them do a
re-take, unless he discovered the nit at some later point after the `Rubber
Soul' session had ended. It's too bad he had to step in and do that edit. I'll
bet he cursed himself when he went back to put it on CD.......He could have
gotten rid of the nit through the magic of digital recording and `re-built'
George's missing note (there was a lot of this note left on the original
master tape........He shouldn't have cut out as much as he did (IMHO)).
 
Volume 1 is 33:10 in length
Volume 2 is 26:53 in length
 
>Ultra-Rare One and Two will be combined on one disk (by a different
>outfit), and put out with 'bonus' tracks [Why hasn't there been more
>discussion of this series on the net?
 
Probably because:
 
>German CD's (distributed through Japan) were/are VERY hard to get, 
 
This is true. Even worse, I hear that there are gougers out there who
want $150 apiece for URT I&II. (That's a bit much (IMHO)). Also, in my
experience with less than legal Beatles material, the re-issues are always
inferior to the first release (if the folks who are combining URT I&II onto
one disc make a `digital-to-digital' copy, then it won't matter, but will
they? If it has to go through an analogue stage, then the copies will be
inferior. This is the main reason why I pay a little extra to get newly
released material instead of waiting for re-issues).
 
>but the material has since been issued (by two different companies!)
>on vinyl. This is important stuff!
 
But the CDs sound SOOOOO much better.....(I've listened to the vinyl releases
and they sound REALLY good, too, but for how many plays? If I'd bought the
vinyl instead, chances are that they'd be worn out already  :-).
 
Have you ever wondered how `Misery' would sound if you removed George Martin's
piano part and had George H. play those bits on guitar? Get the URT set and
find out!
 
Do you think that `She's A Woman' is a raw pulsating tune? Check out the 
version on URT! They should have called this version `She's A Naked Woman'
(this version is TRULY RAW....bare bones, so to speak).
 
How would `Can't Buy Me Love' sound with John and George singing falsetto
harmonies in the background? It sounds better than the released take (in
EVERY facet).
 
How about two false intros to `Norwegian Wood' (John finally gets it right
the third time, and at the end of the tune he says, "I showed ya" to which
George M replies, "Great, fine"). This is a different mix of the released
version but includes the false intros and and an uneditted end part.
1367.3SessionsWFOOFF::ROBERTS_DThu Nov 10 1988 05:54147
The Sessions LP was released sometime in 1985. It originally came in two
different packages:
 
a) a bluish color cover and no disc label on the record was the `import'
b) a cream color cover with an `Odeon' label on the record was `domestic'
 
Since that time, the Sessions CD was released. This CD had a different track 
listing from the original LP. (This CD should be easier to find and much
cheaper to buy in the next month or two). Everyone who wants a complete
Beatles CD collection should get one of these.
 
I just saw the re-issue of the Sessions LP. It comes in a black and white
gatefold cover. I don't know about the sound quality......
 
Supposedly, the Beatles were all involved in the project. This I doubt very
much since it was the Beatles and Yoko who put the clamps on the project.
I doubt if there was much more than a preliminary track listing and a demo
tape (if that). The tape used to master the LP was supposedly duped from
the original demo tape (you can tell by listening that it's not a first
generation tape, although the quality is superior to any other beatleg that
I know of). The liner notes on the original `import' state that the Beatles
were thrilled to get this album out..........the notes were supposedly
written by Brian Southall, also (both are an obvious case of beatleggers 
liscense).
 
Here's a synopsis of the tracks and notes from the back of the `import' LP:
 
Besa me Mucho (sic), sung by Paul, comes from the Beatles very first 
recording session with Parlophone on Wednesday 6 June, 1962 (with Pete Best 
still a member of the group).  
 
How Do You Do It? was recorded on Monday 26 November, 1962 (sic) [We have 
since determined this to be bogus] the same session which also produced 
Please Please Me. 
 
One After 909 (in a version pre-dating the released one by six years) was
left over from the Tuesday 5 March, 1963 sessions which also produced
`From Me To You'.
 
Leave My Kitten Alone comes from the Beatles For Sale sessions and was 
recorded on Wednesday 2 August, 1964.
 
That Means A Lot was recorded during the Help! LP sessions, in the spring 
of 1965, and served as a demo for P. J. Proby's version released that
September.
 
The `Rubber Soul' sessions yielded take one of `I'm Looking Through You'
(lacking the middle section of the song which had not yet been written at
the time) and .....
 
If You've Got Troubles, written by Paul and sung by Ringo.
 
Christmas Time was the theme song of the Beatles' fifth Xmas (sic) record,
taped on Tuesday 28 November 1967 and originally published by The Official
Beatles Fanclub.
 
The follwing three songs were recorded during the sessions for the 1968 
double album `The Beatles':
 
While My Guitar Gently Weeps on Thursday 25 July (with solo acoustic guitar
and with a verse not included in the finished version); 
 
Not Guilty on Wednesday 7 August (a slightyly more `psychedelic' version than
the one released on the 1979 "George Harrison" album), and
 
What's The New Maryjane on Wednesday 14 August.
 
The 1969 sessions for the `Get Back' album project (eventually resulting in
the `Let It Be' film and LP)contain a Lennon cover version of Buddy Holly's
1957 success `Mailman Bring Me No More Blues'.
 
Come And Get It was written by Paul McCartney as the theme song for the Peter
Sellers movie `The Magic Christian' (also starring Ringo Starr); his demo
record sounds even more fabulous than the version sung by Badfinger as released
on 5 December 1969.
>    Last week, I posted a question about the unreleased Sessions LP and nobody
> answered 8-( 
>    So I'm gonna post it again:
>      What exactly was the Sessions album, what was on it and when was it     
>      supposed to be released (and why wasn't it ??)
 
It was a compilation of various studio recordings done between
1962-69. The songs are as follows: 
 
Besame Mucho 				What's the News Mary Jane? *
How Do You Do It			Not Guilty **
One After 909 *				Come and Get It ***
Leave My Kitten Alone			While My Guitar Gently Weeps **
That Means Alot *			Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues
If You've got troubles *
I'm Looking Through You *
Christmas Time is Here Again +
 
Composers:
* (Lennon/McCartney)
** (Harrison)
*** (McCartney)
+ Either (Len/McC) or (L/M/H/S) I can't remember which.
The others were written by other composers, I can't remember the names
of them all.
 
The familiar titles are demo or alternate versions of the released
versions. This is not to be confused with  an alternate mix, where
it is really the same song.  Eg- "While My Guitar" is just George
playing an acoustic guitar and singing (an extra verse too!)
 
Obviously, I don't have mine here at work. Did I forget a song?
My copy is on EMI/Odeon (I think that's EMI in Germany ?)
Our record experts can tell you about the origin of this compilation.
Also, I'm not sure if this is a bootleg or just an import.
 
To those who know the album:  Did the music to "..Through You"
ever remind you of the G. Dead sound? I know it's just Paul,
but the bass sounds like the Dead. (The Sessions version only).
Listen again.
>P.S.S. The new Sessions CD is supposedly faithful to the track lineup
>of the record, and would therefore be different than the old one. 
 
Yes, this is true! In addition to being the REAL Sessions Album (somehow
I think that the collectibility of the `original' Sessions just went up)
it contains the bonus track Obladi-Oblada (sic). It sports what is supposed
to be the `ORIGINAL' Sessions cover. This is a black and white photo of the
Boys in what appears to be the Cavern Club. They're wearing shirts and ties
(ala Brian). On the back is a photo of four pairs of Beatle Boots (nyuk, 
nyuk). It's a photo reduced version of the gatefold Sessions LP (the current
re-issue). Sound quality is just a bit below the `original' (not as much
bottom), but all in all much better than the vinyl. The disc was released
by `Disque Du Monde' (anybody care to translate?).
 
>That and the new Get Back CD should be out by the end of the week.
 
Actually, the new Get Back was `released' at the same time as the Sessions
CD by the same `company' (it also sez `Disque Du Monde'). Since I didn't hear
the original Get Back CD, I can't say as to whether it's better or worse, but
it definately impressed me. The title sez `Get Back with Let It Be and 11 
other songs'. The Get Back LP says `Get Back with Don't Let Me Down and 9 
other songs' (BTW- I finally got my copy of this LP......Mine's addressed
to Jane Asher. Comes with nice big poster and Mal Evans memo about the album).
 
Also, `Songs From the Past' is a GREAT CD! It has a lot of the `Get Back' 
stuff plus a bunch of great alternate stuff. John sings `The Inner Light'
(of all things) plus about half a dozen new L/M tunes. There's a spot where
John yells at Paul ("You're the one who's bloody makin' it like this!", when
reffering to the `drudgery' of the film Let It Be). 48:03 minutes of straight
raw Beatles. At times the tape hiss crops up, and you have to put up with the
`beep' of the recording timer at spots, but the sound quality is EXCELLENT.
Very good fidelity compared to vinyl.
1367.4Get BackWFOOFF::ROBERTS_DThu Nov 10 1988 05:5533
There are at least 9 more different beatlegs that fall under the `Get Back'
criteria in addition to those above.
 
Basic song tracks are:
Get Back
When You Walk
Let It Be
One After 909
Teddy Boy
Two Of Us
Don't Let Me Down
I've Got A Feeling
The Long and Winding Road
Dig It
For You Blue
Dig A Pony
Get Back
 
The various beatlegs are:
 
1)A Studio Recording - includes `Across The Universe'
2)Fab Four
3)Get Back Sessions - includes `Across The Universe'
4)Get Back to Toronto - includes Christmas message/Peace message
5)Kum Back
6)Let It Be Live - includes `Across The Universe'
7)The Let It Be Performance - includes Save The Last Dance For Me/Maggie Mae
                              double album with live second LP.
8)Renaissance Minstrels 2 - includes `Across The Universe'/`I'm Down'/
                              `Instant Karma'
9)The Very Best of The Beatles Rarest Vol. 6 - same as #7 above
 
(the playing order may not be the same in all cases)
1367.6re:-1WFOOFF::ROBERTS_DThu Nov 10 1988 07:4613
    Hi,
      I don't have these as of yet. I had just edited down a set list
      from the usenet beatles mailings. We found adds in Goldmine in
      the classified section. These Cd's exploit European and Far East
      copyright laws in which copyrights expire after X years. So,
      technically they are legal as they are a foreign product under
      a foreign copyright. Supposedly there are copies of the Decca
      Demo's floating around with the three Lennon-McCartney originals
      on them. I believe that one go taken the court by Yoko,Paul &
      George.
    
    
    				Doug R.
1367.7A Moderator of Principle.COOKIE::ROLLOWI'm free! I'm free!Thu Nov 10 1988 10:207
	Please don't bother posting the name or location of where
	these (or any other) bootleg CD can be bought.  I'll delete
	it.  They may be legal outside the U.S., but inside the
	U.S. they are not.

	You may carry on more detailed parts of the conversation
	in private.
1367.8 <-KCAB-TRACK-> PDVAX::P_DAVISPeter DavisTue Dec 13 1988 07:1814
    There is now a single disc, "Back-Track" containing all the material
    from "Ultra Rare Trax" vols. 1 and 2, plus 3 additional tracks: "That
    Means A Lot," "There's a Place," and "Aerial Tour."  The last is an
    instrumental that evolved into the cut "Flying."  Total playing time is
    something like 63:44, if memory serves.  Also, with the exception of
    the three "bonus" tracks, the material now appears to be in
    chronological order of recording date.
    
    The new disc also has somewhat more detailed track info, although
    it's printed in less legible form.  The packaging is also slicker, with
    notes printed on a heavy card-stock insert with a color picture that is
    probably from the same photo session as the infamous "butcher" cover. 
    It shows the Beatles, in street attire, playing with parts of several
    baby dolls.
1367.9FSHQA2::SBEAUPREDuck and CoverTue Dec 13 1988 07:343
    Is it possible, without violating the laws of nature and science,
    to perhaps list the retail price of this deal, and also where the
    disc may be purchased?
1367.10COOKIE::ROLLOWThe thing dreams are made of.Tue Dec 13 1988 10:003
	My reply in .7 states very clearly how I feel about "where"
	information.  If are interested in purchasing these illegal
	goods, please contact the author directly.
1367.11PDVAX::P_DAVISPeter DavisTue Dec 13 1988 13:4811
Re/ .9, .10:

   I have expressly avoided revealing possible sources for these discs in
   here because the release of bootleg cds is indeed a copyright
   infringement, and I don't condone or encourage it.  I'm simply reporting
   some factual information about the existence of these discs.  Much of
   this information is contained in the newsletter "International CD
   Exchange", which also does not supply sources for the discs. (See
   separate note about ICE).
   
   In other words, don't bother sending me mail.
1367.12HEARD ITFDCV16::COTTONThu Dec 22 1988 13:401
    I HAVE HEARD THE BACK TRACK CD AND FOUND IT TO BE VERY GOOD.
1367.13COOKIE::ROLLOWThe thing dreams are made of.Wed Dec 28 1988 10:5990
	Dear readers,

	   Moderation of the information in this note is becoming
	a problem for me.  I am faced with the facts that:

	    1.  Bootleg recordings of any sort are illegal being 
		violations of copyright laws.  

	    2.  Most recording companies don't care about the
		little violations of the copyright laws, because
		it isn't economical to worry about.

	    3.  DIGITAL policies and procedures prefer that
		discussions of this sort don't go on.

	Below is a mail message sent to me by someone that posted
	information about a bootleg in this conference.  The exist-
	ence of the note that started this was brought to my attent-
	ion by Andy Leslie.  I deleted it and information the author
	that it contained infromation that I was uncomfortable with.

	I would like the readership of the conference to let me know
	their opinons of notes about bootleg recordings either here
	or in private mail to me at NABETH::ALAN.  In the next reply
	I will clarify my current groundrules for posting these sorts
	of notes.

	To answer one of the questions asked toward the end of the
	note; no, Andy Leslie is not the Copyright Police.  He is
	merely a concerned employee of DIGITAL.  >>>I<<< on the
	other hand AM the Copyright Police, being moderator of the
	conference.

Return-Path: usfin::cotton
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 88 07:01:54 mst
From: usfin::cotton
To: nabeth::alan, cotton
Subject: RE: bootleg CD.
Status: RO

I heard a rare Beatles tune on a radio station.  I called the station
and asked where I could get it.  They gave me the name of a legitimate
business operation in the Boston area that had the CD.  I called the 
business, they confirmed that they had it and I went down there and 
purchased it (I got a receipt I might add).  May I also add that the 
CDs themselves were in plain view in the record storeIn my opinion, 
if this is an unauthorized recording or if the proper people are not 
getting the proper royalties, then this is an issue between the seller, the
wholesaler and Michael Jackson (who owns the rights to all the Beatles 
recordings).   In my NOTES reply, I said call me and I'll tell you where I 
got the CD....I believed at the time that this was respecting the views in
some of the previous replies that said "don't print where you get the CD or 
they will be deleted."  Understand that I am not making copies of the 
recording or anything like that (nor did I imply that!).  I am simply 
suplying wehre I got the recording (and it wasn't out of a suitcase on 
the corner!)   this is a collectors item and if othere people want to collect,
then that is fine with me.

If these are unauthorized, then let the parties concerned come down and 
stop the things (it took me a grand total of 5 minutes to find out where
they were begin sold).   Hey that would make the recording that I have 
even more collectible!

I just believe that if this is indeed illegal, than it is no worse than
recording something from HBO to your VCR or buying scalpers tickets to 
a concert.  Maybe it is worse for the people selling it, but for the buyers...
come on!  Who is this Andy Leslie, the policeman of the copyright laws.

I tell ya, some people take things too seriously.

Why don;'t you print this reply in the conference and see what kind of 
comments come out of it.  No harm intended here.

Regards,

Bob Cotton
DTN 223-5010

**************************************************************
From:	NABETH::ALAN "Alan Rollow - Alan's Home for Wayward Notesfiles." 22-DEC-1988 18:00
To:	usfin::cotton
Subj:	bootleg CD.

 
	Andy Leslie sent me mail suggesting that the note might
	be proposing an ilicit activity (illegal copying of 
	copyrighten material).  I don't have his original mail
	now so I can't look at the exact words he used.  Between 
	the title "Sue me, Sue you Blues" and the part I underline 
	in my mail to you I decided to delete the note.
1367.14COOKIE::ROLLOWThe thing dreams are made of.Wed Dec 28 1988 11:0510
	1.  You may post reviews of bootleg material.  

	2.  Don't bother giving price or location information
	    where a copy can be picked up.  I'll delete the
	    note.

	3.  It is implied in the posting that you know where to 
	    find the material.  If other readers wish to contact
	    you for further information they can do a SEND/AUTHOR.
	    If you don't want to be contacted, please say so.
1367.15PDVAX::P_DAVISPeter DavisWed Dec 28 1988 11:447
    Re/ .14:  Sounds fair to me.  I had sort of assumed a policy like that
    in posting my notes.
    
    Re/ .13:  Michael Jackson doesn't own the rights to the Beatles'
    recordings.  He owns the rights to the music.  He gets royalties for
    covers, and for sheet music sales, not for sales of the original
    recordings.
1367.16Difference between Bootleg & non-retailPUEBLO::GABBEMon Jan 02 1989 17:4616
I just wanted clarification of a minor point.  There seem to be 2 types of
CDs listed in these notes.  The first is a "true" bootleg which is an
unauthorized recording.  The second is an authorized recording that cannot
be sold in the US.  Typically this situation arises from differences in
copyright law between the US and (usually) the Far East.

For the second case, the restriction is the records cannot be imported and
then sold by a distributor because of copyright or royalty problems.
However, it is perfectly legal for you (or your designated agent) to import
a copy as long as it is for your personal use and not for profit.  There
are companies that will do order and import for you.  You send them a
statement that says the CDs are for personal use.  I'd like to hear
people's experiences with these disks and companies.

Dave G.

1367.17RAVEN1::B_ADAMSWed Jan 04 1989 23:583
    Does Anybody Know Where I Can Get A Copy Of The CD By Prince, It's
    Called The Black Album? 
                                        B.A.
1367.18The Black AlbumISLNDS::ROBINSONThu Jan 26 1989 11:008
    
    Supposedly a boot of the BLACK ALBUM by Prince will be available
    in the near future - via west germany (probably a digital copy
    from one of the few existing cds) - I'll tell 'ya when I get it
    but if anyone has any additional info. send me mail.
    
    will