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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:	Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:	Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:	COOKIE::ROLLOW

Created:	Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:	Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	1517
Total number of notes:	13349

1215.0. "Classical - performance versus sonics" by SMURF::BINDER (Popular culture is an oxymoron.) Fri Jun 03 1988 11:33

Interesting thought for classical music lovers:

This is one I ran up against this week.  Where do you draw the line
between getting a CD for the fabulous sonics, and "sacrificing" the
sonics for a better performance? 

Years ago, I had an RCA Dynagroove LP copy of the Munch/Boston recording
of the Saint-Sa�ns Organ Symphony (recorded in '59).  I loved it dearly;
in fact, when I bought new speakers in '77 I made sure they could repro-
duce its *deep* rumbling bass down to 32 Hz. 

Comes my personal CD revolution, and behold, the Munch version wasn't
available.  So I asked opinions, listened around, and settled on the ADD
Barenboim/Paris version on DG Galleria (recorded in '76).  Well, sad to
say, the Barenboim version lacks that house-rattling bass.  But the
performance is superb. 

Now along comes the Munch in RCA's ADD version.  I bought it, and the 
bass is pure splendor.  It's stunning.  But the performance, it turns
out, ain't so hot.  It's certainly okay, but it's not the magical job 
Barenboim did.

Okay, fans, when you hit one like this, which way do you jump?  For 
myself, I listened to both versions several times, driving the family 
crazy in the process, and then dumped the Munch.  It all worked out 
well, because I sold it to a friend who actually prefers it to the 
Barenboim.

But there's still a moral here.  Don't jump on the digital, state-of- 
the-art bandwagon out of na�vet�.  Listen first.

- Dick

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
1215.1	Yup, you gotta be careful	FACT01::LAWRENCE	Jim/Hartford A.C.T.,DTN 383-4523	`Fri Jun 03 1988 14:46`	19
	We have had several LP vs. CD discussions over in AUDIO. Most agree that the best of LP always beats the best of CD. But a lot of LP is not "the best". And most agree that the clean, wide range sound and convenience are worth a lot. I have had the same problem? as you. I maintain collections of both LPs and CDs. You may have noticed that a wonderful LP recording turns out lousy on CD, not due to the technology, but to the new mix and master. I have found also, that some CDs sound much better than their LP original. You just have to check it out before you buy. I read all the rags for the reviews and try to get opinions from friends and co-workers about a performance first. The Saint-Saens I have on CD is OK, but not glorious. My original LP was better, but I gave it away due to its awful condition. Regards, Jim
1215.2	I think you may have missed the point	WYVERN::COMEFORD	If it doesn't say ANSI its not a standard	`Mon Jun 06 1988 11:49`	19
	I'm not absolutely certain, but I think you may have missed Mr. Binder's point. He was trying to decide between extremely faithful reproduction (the amazing rumble of a 32' pipe probably by the sounds of it) and a masterful performance with expression and feeling (anyone who can get expression out of an organ has my hat off to him/her, it isn't easy). In the long run both were on CD, the CD/LP difference didn't seem to enter into it. I think I have to agree with Mr. Binder's choice of going for the "better" performance. However, better performance can tend to get subjective, evoking something from the listener. I am certain from previous discussions that Mr. Binder and I would not agree on a "best" performance of (for example) Carmina Burana. We each favor different performances for different reasons. In this case it was also true of the Saint-Saens Organ Symphony, as both Mr Binder and the purchaser of his other performance of the organ piece as both were happy in the long run. Thanks, Keith Comeford
1215.3	Hope this aint a rat hole	CSSE32::NICHOLS	HERB	`Mon Jun 06 1988 11:51`	6
	<that the best of LP always beats the best of CD>. If I recall correctly those discussions in audio have an unspoken premise namely: "the best of LP" consumer equipment costs many thousands of dollars.
1215.4	What's it worth to you...	FACT01::LAWRENCE	Jim/Hartford A.C.T.,DTN 383-4523	`Mon Jun 06 1988 13:16`	33
	A careful re-read of .0 shows that .2 was correct in that Mr. Binder was comparing 2 CD versions. Although the comments are valid. I always go for the performance, when you can't have both. My feeling is that if you are going for the "sonics", if you will, then what you are trying to do is impress your friends with your system rather than enjoying the best of what a conductor/orch. can achieve. R.E. -.1, We have gone through that discussion many times in AUDIO and I have to admit that the "best of LP" will cost much more than the best of CD (depends onwhat you choose as the best of course). For the sake of discussion, let's eliminate the ridiculously expensive of both, say the Goldman Reference at 20K and the 8k Accuphase. Comparing real world gear, take the SONY 707ESD CD player, $1800. And the combo of SOTA Star Saphire/SME V arm/ Carnigie one at maybe $5000. I can assure you that the LP setup will sound better. But I have heard both through very top end systems. And you have to stop and ask yourself is the extra $3200 worth it... Especially when you consider the convenience, programmability and long life of the CD format. If the rest of your system can match the LP combo mentioned and you "gotta have the best" then it's worth the diff. For the average person, given average practical listening values, the SONY 707ESD will knock your socks off. Depends on what you want. Will a Honda Prelude satisfy you or do you need the Porsche? The law of diminishing returns applies to audio in a big way. Each additional dollar buys less and less sound. Regards, Jim