Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

I have a Carver, the orignal CD player.  I am having problems with it 
mistracking.  No one seems to be able to fix it.  Not even Carver.  When
it works, it sounds great.  Except for the Digital Time Lens, I am more
impressed with my cheap Technics SLP-1.  It is easier to program.

    Well, to prove there are two sides to every story, I also own a
    first generation Carver CD player (DTL-100). I've had it for 
    ~ 3 years, and it still runs fine. I agree with Jack, it isn't the
    easiest thing to program, especially compared with the new players.
    
    The guts of the Carver were made by Yamaha - dunno if this holds
    true for their 2nd generation players. The digital time lens is
    a nice feature, but I find I don't use it very often - most cd's
    don't require this effect (very good on harsh sounding highs, though).
    
    Although I'm a Carver owner, I'd say save the $150 or so and go
    with the other player. Me, when I replace my player, the next one
    will be a mid to high end Denon. Those players really impressed
    me!
    
    
                                  Ken
    

    
    I'd like to thank everyone for there input, including not only the
    replies posted here, but several mail messages and a few phone calls.
    
    I went up to the Nashua N.H. Lechmere, and was able to buy a couple
    of CDs for the money saved on sales tax after buying the player.
    
    The sound is GREAT!  Bigger speakers and a beefier Amp are next.
    
    Thanks Again, Terry :-)  ...oh yeah, We adopted the Carver.

    Ooooh..... You just gotta buy that Carver.  I refuse to even talk to
    people unless they own a SAAB, wear Reebok tennis shoes, AND own a
    Carver stereo!  ;^)
    
    Some buy stereo equipment depending upon the status symbol of the
    NAME.  I tend to purchase stereo equipment based upon the SOUND.
    
    
    							-Paul
    

    Oh well - as Meat Loaf would say, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad" (I
    don't wear Reeboks)! :-)
    
    I don't recall anyone saying that they bought Carver just because
    of the name (though Carver does have a lot of good products).
    
    Myself, I buy products (of any sort) that perform well and are a good
    value for the money.  In the audio world, Carver products generally
    qualify there.  (And in the automotive world, so do SAABs.)  I see no
    need to belittle anyone simply because they purchased a particular
    brand that is known for competent products.
    
    					Steve

     
    In .4, I attempted to use humor to make a point about the
    price/performance curve of compact disk players.  Most products,
    including compact disk, generally obey a standard price/performance
    curve.  In this case, "performance" could be defined as some set of
    features and hardware specifications.  The arbitrarily drawn graph for
    compact disk players (excluding professional models) show these
    important generalizations:

    	o The minimum price for a fully functional CD player is
          approximately $100
     
    	0 The performance greatly increase between $100 to $300
                                         
    	o Between $300 to $500, the performance level increases slowly

    	o At about $500,  maximum performance has almost been achieved

    	o At above $500, the performance actually decreases, in some cases  	


    The consensus from the previous replies indicate that the Carver CD
    player, falls into the last category.  The demand for this type of
    product is based upon the PERCEPTION of higher quality.  It's a great
    way to increase profit margins.  Carver is not the only one - Protron
    equipment may also fit into this category.  IBM does this all the time! 
    Yuppie often have lots of cash, so its not surprising that there are
    companies out there willing to take it.  I'm not passing judgment on
    Carver, Protron, or yuppies.  I just want to point out a common
    marketing ploy that the previous replies illustrate.

    Only by careful, unbiased analysis of the product can one avoid being
    the sucker that's born every minute.  Good luck.


    							-Paul
    
                                                           
     P|
     E|                                      
     R|                                  /---------------|       /--------
     F|                        /--------/                 \ ----/
     O|                       /                             
     R|                   /--/
     M|                  /
     A|                --/
     N|               /
     C|          ----/    
     E|         |    
      ----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|
            ~$100      ~$200      ~$300      ~$400      ~$500      ~$600

                                  P R I C E

    * note : above graph is only an approximation.  It's very difficult to
    draw a curve with a VT200.
      
    

  Re .6
    
    I'm a little old for the "Y" in yuppie, but I can understand the
    idea of buying the best.  It's really a very conservative way to
    buy.
    
    Both my wife and I work at good jobs, and have figured out long
    ago that you can trade money for time.  It takes a half day off
    of work, or the same amount of "quality" time to get something fixed.
    If you get a very high quality item, you learn to like the feel
    of quality workmanship.  I don't know anything about the Carver
    CD, but I note that .6 takes a pure technoid evaluation of the unit.
    Only the quality of sound is evaluated.  There is no mention of
    pride of ownership, and how it will look for years to come.
    
    Jeff                                     

    

    R.E. your .6 reply,
    
         
>    	0 The performance greatly increase between $100 to $300
>                                         
>    	o Between $300 to $500, the performance level increases slowly
>
>    	o At about $500,  maximum performance has almost been achieved
>
>    	o At above $500, the performance actually decreases, in some cases  	

 
    You aren't serious about this are you?  I certainly disagree that
    performance maxes out at $500.   My SONY 605ESD is wonderful, but
    the Denon 3300 beats it out at about $1200.  The new SONY 707ESD
    absolutely blows the doors off anything I have heard.  It's $1800.
    Your idea about performance going down over $500 is really strange.
    I totally disagree.
    
    Regards, Jim
    

                Probably a better description of what happens after a
        certain price (possibly around $500 for CD players) is that two
        lines emerge and for certain brands the quality may in fact dip
        as the price rises; while the other line continues to go up,
        possibly at a slower pace than before for other brands.
                
                /s/     Bob