Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    I also would love to be able to listen to a demo CD before I buy
    a copy.  Since CD's cost as much as they do, I would probably buy
    more if I could be sure of what I was buying.
    
    I would not even mind buying a used demo CD since their quality
    does not degrade unless physically damaged.
    
    If a store which had a demo policy existed I would buy from them
    even if they cost a little more.
    
    Martin H.

    Obviously, cost is a factor in operating a demo CD store. A larger
    inventory is required (the demos). While you might be willing to
    pay full price for a previously played disc, I seriously doubt that
    this would be the attitude of the buying public in general. Some
    stores will do demos (Rick at EG comes to mind), but most aren't
    interested (I'd also think you'd need more employee hours to keep
    the demo inventory straight).
    
    Interestingly, Japan seems to have done exactly what you've suggested.
    At the Wave (which is a huge media store in downtown Tokyo....and
    ten times the size of the biggest Tower Records. They sell all types
    of media - vinyl, cassette, CD, LaserDisk, videotape, etc), all
    CD's can be previewed before purchase. This practice seems to work
    well there (according to the article I read) - maybe it's a cultural
    difference.
    
    You know, it really wasn't all that long ago that you could hear
    a record before you bought it. That's gone now....and I believe
    it's all a case of economics, at least here in the States. Of course,
    if you want to go into business with the idea and prove me
    wrong....well, I'll be sure to patronize you :-)
    
    
    
                                           Ken
    

    
    
    re -1  Question of economics ??  Hardly !!  How about a question
    of dishonesty (read "crime of theft"). I would say that the main
    reason for the lack of "try it before you buy it" shops in the U.S.
    is because Americans can't keep their sticky fingers off things
    in stores as well as our European/Asian counterparts can.
    
    I lived in Japan for 2 years, and was amazed at the lack of things
    that we've come to accept in an "oh well" kind of state - for example,
    the lack of grafitti on trains, subway walls, buildings, etc. Or
    how about the ability of companies to put soda machines, coffee
    machines, magazine vending machines, etc., right out on a street.
    Can you imagine a Coke machine on a street in New York City, or
    L.A. ?? Say what you will...I think that what I've stated is the
    REAL major reason...money is secondary.
    
    				The Cruiser
    
    

    RE: -1
    
     Okay Cruiser, I'll accept theft as yet another reason for the lack
    of "try it before you buy it" shops here in the U.S. of A....
    
     One small nit - isn't pilferage of discs simply a supporting element
    to my "question of economics" theory - i.e., just another reason
    why such shops aren't feasible here, because the cost of operations
    (now amended to include customer/employee theft) is prohibitive?
    
     I do agree that it's a sad commentary on our society that respect
    for property and goods appears nonexistent.......
    
    
                                        Ken
    

    There is no need to run the risk of theft for "try before you buy".
    Many stores in the US are following an idea from Europe of having
    only the labels in the racks and you get the disc from behind
    the counter.  LIFT advertises such a system for retailers.  This would
    allow tryouts, but does increase personnel costs.
    
    					Steve

    
    
    re .4 
    
     To be sure, the problem of theft is an "economics" related problem,
    but one that, in different societies, isn't even an economic
    consideration. This isn't a utopian, nor an idealistic statement,
    just a pointed distaste of this part of our society, that is cureable.
    
    re .5
    
    I've seen the LIFT stuff advertised every month in CD&DAR, yet I've
    never yet been in a store that uses it. I can imagine that discs
    from a store using this method would start at $17.99, just to pay
    for this fancy security system. -')
    

    				The Cruiser
    
    

    I think .0 was suggesting a change in packaging such that a CD could be
    played WHILE STILL IN THE BOX.  (Presumably on a special player.)

    It is not too hard to imagine how this might work: something like the
    way a floppy disk works in its wrapper.  In the case of a CD, they
    might have the disk forced onto a cardboard tube hub which opened to
    the outside of the box.  Then they could have a part of the package
    which was just clear plastic to allow reading the disk.  A special
    player could work with this package.

    Sounds convenient.  Who will be the first to come up with a portable
    combination tape deck/cd player which allows you to record your
    favorite CD's for free in the store?

	Paul

    
    
    	Gentlemen!
    
    	While most of you would be quick to discuss ideas on the ecconomics
    and such all of you overlooked one little thing. Such a system as
    .0 asked about does indeed exist. In the Woburn, Mass. Lechmere
    store is a device housed in a clear plastic case that hold 25 CDs.
    There is a pair of nice headphones attached so that you can listen
    to the CD of your choice in privacy. Not only can you pick out the
    CD of your choice out of the 25, but you can listen to any track
    on that CD.
    	This device looks like it is a commercial unit but I do not
    know the brand name.
    
    				Donald
    

    Re: .-1
    
    Neat.  I wonder if they will replace the current Juke-Boxes
    in bars!  25 discs * min. 10 tracks = 250 songs.  The
    question is, how will they list 250+ songs on the front
    of the box?

    
    I have seen CD jukeboxes here in Co. Springs.

    re: .9,.10
    
    I've seen CD jukeboxes (well, just one) here in Colorado at a Pizza
    Hut in Wheat Ridge (Denver suburb). They actually had all the CD
    jewel boxes with packaging inside the jukebox and you made your
    selections from some kind of code given for each track on each disk.
    It was actually a pretty neat looking device, although the mechanical
    nature of the selection mechanism was a bit on the low-tech side.

Up here we have at least 2 stores that provide CD players for customers to 
listen to CDs on.  In both cases, the units are standard home units with
volume controls and a decent pair of headphones.  One is in a soundproofed
listening booth, the other right out on the floor.  In the second case, it is a
physically small store and the CD player you listen on is right on top of the
CD/AMP system they use for the store sound system.  You just turn down theirs
and listen away.  

Also, either of the stores will play a disc for you over the store system (in
case you don't want to listen through the headphones).  Actually, I've been in
stores here, in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Missouri.  I've asked stores to
play music for me many times, and I've never been refused.  Often they have a
disc that they use that they'll put on.  Obviously, this works best in stores
where they have an interest in the music.  Mass merchandisers aren't so
obliging. 

re .0
>    - Would you pay to use the demo CD player in the store? 

have never had to.     

>    - Would you patronize a store that had demo capability over one
>    that did not? How far out of your way would you go? How much extra
>    per CD would you pay at such a store?

Yes I go out of my way to the stores with listening ability.  One (Digital Only
is the name of the store) is approximately 15 miles and the other is in downtown
Minneapolis.  Prices at digital only are about $13.99, $14.99, for new discs.
This is significantly lower than Musicland (where while everyone else is
lowering their prices they just raised theirs to $16.99, $17.99).  The other
store has higher prices $15.99, $16.99, but stocks things that I haven't found
anyplace else.  They stock jazz and classical (absolutely no rock), and have a
selection of discs I haven't seen elsewhere up here.  They have also started
selling many discs for $12.99. 
    
>    - Do you think such a service/capability would cause you to buy
>    more CD disks or fewer?

Must have.  I've gotten over 200 discs in less than a year.  I try to support
the places where I can listen to material.  I figure if they're willing to go to
the trouble of providing a previewing capability, I'll buy from them when
possible. 
    
>    - How would you feel about the possibility that the CD you are buying
>    might have been played by someone before you in demo player?

Doesn't bother me a bit.  Digital Only has a large selection of used discs.  You
can trade any disc you have for any used disc for $1.00.  Or buy their used
discs for $7.99 to $10.99.  You grab things you're interested in, give them a
listen and make your trades.  For new discs, they have the liner notes out.  You
grab the liner notes, go up to the desk and get the disc, give it a listen.

re .1
>    I also would love to be able to listen to a demo CD before I buy
>    a copy.  Since CD's cost as much as they do, I would probably buy
>    more if I could be sure of what I was buying.

I think this is one reason I've gotten so many classical discs.  I can listen
and find music I like rather than buying blind.

re .3    

>    Question of economics ??  Hardly !!  How about a question
>    of dishonesty (read "crime of theft"). I would say that the main
>    reason for the lack of "try it before you buy it" shops in the U.S.
>    is because Americans can't keep their sticky fingers off things
>    in stores as well as our European/Asian counterparts can.

Maybe people here aren't smart enough to steal the stuff.  I checked with both
stores and asked about problems with inventory loss.  In both cases they've
indicated absolutely NO problems.  However, both stores are physically small,
having 3000 - 4000 discs.  Both are single rooms where the person at the counter
can see the whole store.

I do have a question.  One of the other specialists here refuses to patronize
stores that allow people to listen to discs because "I don't want to buy a disc
where someone else has handled it.  A disc that has been listened to is a "used"
disc".  He admits this is irrational given the way CDs work, but also won't trad
in CDSWAP.  What does everyone else think?  Have y'all been lasciviously
fondling discs for trade?

D

    All right.  Is there *anyone* who has been able to incant to the
    big black box in Lechmere the magic words to get it to play even
    the *disc*, let alone the track you wanted to hear?
    
    Near as I can figure, the wonderful little holes cut through the
    plexiglass marked "A" "B" "C" "D" with the buttons behind them
    just don't have any connection to what is inside the big black box.
    Ok, that's not completely fair.  The big black box somehow *knows*
    that I have no desire to listen to Ozzy Ozborne, so that's what
    it chooses to play for me.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Contrary to the current understanding, you can damage a CD as easily
    and traumatically as you damage vinyl. I would NOT want to see a
    lot of in-store handling of a disc I'm going to buy.
    
    I've tried checking discs out of the local library. First, the
    collections is poor, and secondly, some of the discs are so screwed
    up, whole tracks simply won't queue up at all. Easy to see why.
    I watched the librarian handling the discs one day. Drop it out
    of the envelope; slide it across to the locking hub. I winced. A
    beer coaster gets better treatment.
    
    I understand that *any* additional handling is going to increase
    the end user cost. But why not keep one copy of the more popular
    titles for rental with an option to buy a sealed version later?
                                                                   
    walt
        

    
    There is a place across the street from work here in Bellevue (WA.)
    that has one of each of the more popular CDs behind the counter.
    On request (they probably ask for your driver's license as
    a security) they'll give one to you to listen to on a fleet
    of CD players they have in a partially-walled off area of the
    store. 
    
    If you like the in-store borrowable copy, you can then go to the
    racks and find one to buy.
    
    Anything wrong with this system? Is this what Electric Grammaphone
    does?
    
    The only downside I've seen is they don't have one of everything
    in the store behind the counter -- so if you're looking for something
    obscure you'll have to buy on blind faith and remembered reviews.
    
    The store is called "Silver Platters" and was/is a popular place
    for a mid-day break with out-of-town visitors.
    
       John
    

    re .-1
    
    No. Electric Grammaphone will open the stock CD - but they do so
    with about the same level of care the manufacturer gave it. No
    fingerprints; don't let the surface touch anything.
    
    EG has another nice touch. After you make the purchase they take the
    CD out of the plastic sleeve, insert the liner notes in the jewel box 
    for you and then discard the plastic.
    
    walt 

    Re: .-1
    
    Electric Grammophone does not always discard the plastic.  If it
    was heat-sealed they toss it.  If it was stapled shut they keep
    it, so that next time they open a heat-sealed CD wrapper to play
    the disk for a customer and he doesn't want it they can put it into
    the stapled wrapper and put it back in the bin.
    
    So if the CD you pick up is in a heat-sealed wrapper you know that
    noone has listened to it before and if it is in a stapled wrapper
    then someone may have.  Not that it matters, since the people at
    EG are the only ones who typically ever handle the disk when it
    is opened.
    
    				Paul
    

    I talked to Rick about that.  What he said was that he TRIES to
    open the heat-seal; if it pops open easily (about half do) then
    he keeps it for re-packaging another CD.  If not, he cuts it, no
    problem.
    	
    He usually has quite a few spare plastic heat-seals to spare...
    seems people test-listen things and then buy them. :-)