Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

>    < Note 1027.0 by ERLANG::MILLER "Steve Miller" >
>For the sake of this discussion, first assume that a NEW recording sounds
>the same whether on CD or LP.

    New recordings sound different, depending on whether they were recorded
    and/or mastered digitally or analogue, I hate to be picky, but that
    is vital to remember.
    
>Then, in practice, have people found that the numerous CD reissues - 
>jazz, classical, old rock - offer considerable sonic advantages above
>and beyond the dynamic range and lack of scratches and pops?
>Many of the old LPs were very poorly mastered/pressed, and I am wondering
>how much is to be gained by getting a CD player and CD versions.

    As you read through  this file, you'll see reviews of old recordings
    that vary from "crystal clear" to "crap" - two exmples that spring
    to my mind are 10cc's "Original Soundtrack" (CC) and "YesSongs"
    (Crap). This is generally due to the good/poor conditions in which
    the tapes have been stored - by the sound of YesSongs, they were
    stored in a urinal receptacle [just my opinion!] - and how they
    were recorded in the first place - Bruce Springsteen's "Born to
    Run" was recorded Digitally in 1976-ish. (?)
    
    Sorry, there is no clear-cut answer - some sound better, some much
    worse.
    
    Most new recordings sound better on CD, there is no doubt. However,
    some still sound awful, as the old roman said: "Caveat Emptor"! 

    The other great advantage of CD over LP is thatof longevity of course.
        
    Hope this reply was of some help,
    
    Andy

    Conscientious remastering can usually give new life to an old 
    recording, unless the original master tape(s) is a complete
    waste.  If the job is well done, the media of the final product
    can be of little difference depending on the preferences and
    prejudices of the end user.  If the original recording doesn't
    use a wide dynamic range then the range available on digital
    media is wasted.  If the original has a lower signal to noise
    ratio than the ratio possible with the final media that feature
    will also be wasted.

    Companies like Telarc and Mobile Fidelity proved that very high
    quality vinal can be pressed and can make a difference, if you
    are willing to pay the price.  Most of my MFSL records cost on
    the order of $16.00 - $18.00 (sound familiar?).  I once saw some
    cutouts for $12.00.  By being VERY careful and using top of the
    line equipment those discs could remain in top condition for
    years.  I would prefer not to be THAT careful and spend my money
    on media instead of the "best" equipment.

    Whether a reissue is any good doesn't depend on the final media,
    it depends on the work that was put into turning the master record-
    ing into something the media makers could make use of.  Some of 
    my favorite recordings are those that were good transfers to CD.  
    If the remastering job is botched all the CD will do is highlight 
    that fact.

    The reason I buy CD's (850 by this time tomorrow) instead of records
    is that they are easier to use and don't wear out.  For a moderate
    investment in playback equipment they offer the *potential* for
    better sound reproduction.  Whether that potential is tapped (for
    NEW or old recordings) is in the hands of someone we can only hope
    will do his job well.

    Oh, by the way, out of my many recordings there are many more good
    jobs of remastering than there are botched jobs.  There are also a 
    couple of cases where the original was probably a waste.
    

    
    
    If it's oldies ye seek, then behold the names Bill Inglot or Steve
    Hoffman. Bill has been the Rhino records remastering master from
    the beginning, although he hasn't (unfortunately) worked on all
    their projects (specifically the horrible Turtles GH package - which
    sounds ace on vinyl, but gigo on disc). The fabulous Mr. Hoffman
    started at MCA doing the first 10 (5 disc) of the Vintage Oldies
    set. He hardly had terrific masters to work from, and with very
    few exceptions did an exemplary job. He now works for Dunhill (which
    owns the rights to ABC-Paramount/Dunhill and a few others). He just
    remastered the whole Ray Charles ABC catalog on 2 discs, along with
    the genius himself. Hoffmans name will appear on the back insert
    towards the bottom center of every disc project he's worked on.
    You can't go wrong. 
    
    The person(s) doing the mastering for Original Sound (The original
    "Oldies but Goodies" label), is also using a very good remastering
    process which makes all of those discs I've heard very, very
    listenable. Motown is another company who've done very well with
    their remastering, however the high end is REALLY BRIGHT, so add
    the bass and lower the high end a tad on the old EQ box before
    listening. Other than that, I've got no complaints.
    
    To me, it really does make a difference, both for longevity of the
    music, ease of play and transfer to custom tapes (Congress doesn't
    read this note, do they ??).
    
    For a good jazz A-B comparison, get James/Sanborn's "Double Vision,"
    and "hear the light."
    
    				The Cruiser
    
    

    
    Good God, can you believe that anyone would have 850 CDs?  Amazing.
    Big bucks.
    
    Yes, CD has benefits that LP could never have.  Easy to use, random
    play selection, auto repeat, etc. Plus don't wear out and the dynamic
    range potential is 30 Db greater.  Now, the very best LPs played
    on the very best tables/arms/cartridges sound better to me.  But
    not THAT much better.  An Oricle or SOTA with an SME op ET2 arm
    and a Koetsu Red Signiture will set you back maybe 4 grand. You
    can get a very decent CD player for 500.  It's a question of
    practicality and function.  Plus you can use CDs in the car and
    portable players.  CD is great.  Now, to get the price down.
    
    I have had both terrific and awful reissues.  You gotta read the
    reviews before buying.
    
    JL
      

    
    
    re. -1  One very minor correction. You can get a decent CD player
    for anywhere from $129-$1500. Unless you listen with an O-scope,
    I doubt you could tell the difference. Yeah, there's plastic vs.
    metal cases, etc., etc., ad naseum. Bells & whistles abound on the
    more expensive ones (cartridges for multiple plays, remotes that
    open the drawer and yakkity, yakkity, yak). Drive motor noise comes
    into play if you sit right on top of the unit (Magnavox, et al.).
    One could list for days the inherent problems. However one could
    list for years the inherent problems with turntables - only starting
    with pricing for good base units (usually without stylii, arms and
    other necessary accessories, just to get the damn things to play
    right - not to mention weighting, tracking and anything else the
    store wants to sell you). You buy a cd player, take it home, unpack
    it, plug it in, put the disc in and (if you don't get a d.o.a.),
    Wa-la - music. 
    
    I've got well over 2500 lp's & 2000 45's. The problem of differences
    in recordings exist there, too. It depends on the generation of
    the master. Now add a bad analog master to an analog pressing -
    and what do you get ?? And a $4000 TT ain't gonna make it sound
    any better (neither is a copy to CD). So like the man said - read
    the reviews, first. Especially here, 'cause they're usually truthful.
    This conference is better than CD&A Review.
    
    				The Cruiser
    
    Who_sho_nuff_likes_CD's
    
    

    
    Recently I saw mention here of an $88 portable CD player from Service
    Merchandising, so the hardware price is going down.
    
    However the software price isn't, except for those of us who can
    take advantage of the falling dollar.

    re:.6
    
    Actually, the software p[rice *is* falling. New releases are still
    in the $15 range, but reissues of older works are becoming more
    and more common in the $10 range. With the sale going on at the
    Boston Tower records, I was getting some of these "budget" CD's
    at the same price or less as an LP elsewhere.
    
    --- jerry